Discourse in Magic

This episode the interviewer becomes the interviewee. Jonah sits down with Brian Miller on his podcast, One New Person, to discuss his identity as a magician, copywriting and a chance encounter with one person that had a ripple effect on his life. Brian is a magician turned speaker with the goal of helping people feel heard and valued in our disconnected world. You may remember Brian from his Discourse in Magic episode, Episode 54 – Networking for Magicians. or you may have heard about his book, Three New People, which advocates for a change in how we approach interacting with each other. One New Person is Brian’s new podcast. His intention is to highlight ordinary people who are doing meaningful work and shaping the world around them. Believing that every interaction you have and every person you meet is important, Brian has his guests discuss an interaction that had a ripple effect in their life. Jonah’s Episode Identifying as a Magician It wasn’t until recently that Jonah began to feel confident in telling people that he was a magician. Before, he would find himself telling people it was alright to laugh, almost as a defense mechanism for how absurd the concept could be to most people. However, between producing so many shows and his podcast, Jonah now feels like he has the ability to say he is a magician without feeling like an impostor. Marketing, Business & Copywriting While Jonah likes the creative side of magic, he does find himself drawn towards the advertising and marketing side of magic. He feels that if his marketing is better than his show, then his show needs to get better, and vice versa. It becomes a tug-of-war, constantly pushing him to better his understanding of marketing and to better his magic. Jonah goes on to highlight how the structure and intention of copywriting is similar to performing magic on stage. The goal of both are to communicate an idea from one person to the next in the clearest way possible. A Chance Encounter When Jonah was in elementary school, he was known as the person who did magic. When he was heading off to summer camp, he opted to leave behind his tricks, bringing only a single deck of cards from the dollar store with him; he was on his way out of magic. Or, he was, until he met Ben Train who was working in the tuck shop at the camp. Ben reignited Jonah’s interest in magic after showing him a seemingly impossible card trick. From there, Ben acted as Jonah’s magic teacher, his co-councilor at Sorcerer’s Safari, and, now, as his business partner with the Toronto Magic Company. All of this came from meeting at a summer camp with Ben showing Jonah a card trick. Brian’s Plugs Three New People One New Person Brian’s Website The post Brian Miller on One New Person appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

For episode 162, Jonah sits down with Dan White to discuss working with a team, creating a show, and performing on television. Dan has appeared on the Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon ten times, has an on running show at the Nomad, and has consulted for people like David Blaine, David Copperfield and Kanye West. When Dan was a boy, his father gave him a magic kit, sparking his interest in magic. Growing up in Philadelphia, Dan had access to a magic store where he was able to go to learn and share magic. Eventually, Dan began to work there which allowed him to repeatedly perform tricks and polish his style during his eight years at the shop. While Dan attended University full-time, he was still performing magic. During this time, Dan moved to New York to further his education and his magic career. By living in New York, Dan was able to perform gigs at nightclubs and bars. New York also gave him the opportunity to meet magicians and give him access to the real inner world of magic. Soon, Dan met David Blaine and eventually stated working with him. After working with Blaine on his show, Dan was given the chance to consult for David Copperfield which led to him working with Robert Smith, Blake Vogt, Patrick Kun, Homer Liwag and Chris Kenner. After working with Copperfield, the restaurant 11 Madison Park approached Dan wanting to create a deck of playing cards for the restaurant and a trick that they could incorporate into their dessert course. When they completed this project, they asked if Dan would be interested in performing a show at their hotel. Since then, Dan has been performing The Magician at the Nomad Hotel in New York. Working with a Team Whether he’s consulting for a show or creating his own material, Dan is often working with his fellow magicians and peers to develop ideas. Often, everything starts as a spark, a seed of an idea that comes while he and his friends are talking. When they come together to share their ideas, it gives then a chance to discuss the concepts and develop them further. Dan highlights that by working with others, you have the chance to utilize their expertise to better execute your vision. Creating a Show When Dan was crating his show for The Nomad, he knew he wanted it to be more than an open mic format or a standard show. At the beginning, it was primarily him developing a narrative that would be the through line for the show. Nailing down his narrative was the most important part as it gave the show more than just a series of tricks. Dan also knew that he would have the audience’s attention when they entered the room, so it became a process of how to give the audience the best overall experience. In terms of effects, Dan often asks what would be cool or interesting to do on stage that would fit into the narrative. While he isn’t switching in and out new effects constantly, he is ways creating new effects as he sees no reason not to be. Performing for Fallon Jimmy Fallon discovered Dan after seeing the second half of Dan’s first ever show at the Nomad. Enjoying what he saw, Jimmy invited Dan onto the show to perform. There’s a different between performing on television and performing on The Tonight Show, Dan explains. On The Tonight Show, Dan is trying to cater to Jimmy’s brand while also performing effects that interest him and allow the most amount of people to participate. Dan also believes that a television show appearance shouldn’t be a one and done moment; the effect you decide to do should have multiple hits and moments that get the spectators involved in the magic rather than as passive observers. Built in Experiences Dan wants to be like a musician but with magic. Like music, he wants magic to consistently deliver an impact moment that can be experienced over and over again by lay people. He wants people to watch a trick and get chills from the presentation. You can of course deliver an experience through magic by focusing on building peaks and valleys into the show. Give your audience the ups and downs they want. Have the gruesome and sexy moments mixed into the hard hitting and calm moments. Dan points to Copperfield as an example of someone who truly understands how to take the audience on an experience. To help build this experience, Dan highlights that you need to connect with your audience on a real person level. You can see different results when you interact with people in certain ways. You first need to recognize there is an antagonistic side to a magic show, and that you need to defuse that atmosphere to help bring up the energy to a place where the audience can relax and be entertained by the performance. Wrap-Up What do you like about 2018/2019 magic? What do you hate? There is nothing major that Dan hates in the current magic period as even when he is presented with something he doesn’t like or disagrees with, he still appreciates that it has him thinking and that it is clearly pushing a boundary. If anything, the only thing he doesn’t like is people still releasing DVDs instead of downloads, and how people do interviews before explanations for their tricks. What Dan likes about the current state of magic is the fact that we’re living in a new period of magic that has seen Instagram magicians rise. It is a different direction for magic, and he is interested to see how it plays out. Take Home Point Jonah liked the idea regarding sharing information because you’re passionate about magic and want the community to grow; we should be focsing on making connections, not being competitive. Dan believes the most important part is the idea of peaks and valleys in your act. You need to push that idea hard because you need to get the emotions to bring people into your show. Endless Chain B. Smith Blake Vogt Plugs Instagram Twitter The Magician Lit The post Teamwork, Fallon, and the Audience with Dan White appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

Jonah is joined by Manuel Llaser for episode 151 to discuss emotion in magic, learning from teachers, and analyzing your approach to magic. Manuel is an Argentinian magician who developed his deep appreciation for magic under the guidance of Juan Tamariz. Manuel comes from a family of artists. His uncle, Alan Marchese, started him on the path of magic when he was five years old. Under his mentor, Manuel developed a deep love for the craft. In 1992, Manuel met Juan Tamariz and they immediately connected. In 1998, Juan invited Manuel to come work with him. Leaving law school, Manuel went to help Juan with writing and archiving his ideas. Teachers and Mentors With his background in Eastern philosophy, Manuel has always understood that to truly learn and develop in a craft, you need to learn from a teacher or guru. In the East, knowledge being passed from the teacher to the student is a normal tradition. Not only does it help one improve their skills, but it helps the student develop humility, listening and analytical skills, and a sense of what they actually want to accomplish within their chosen craft. A teacher, Manuel emphasizes, is meant to guide you through the basic principles and how to apply them. Nowadays, there is a tendency of people telling you to branch out and follow your own path to understand the craft. While it is important to stay true to you, Manuel says, you need to be aware of the fundamentals before you can actually go deeper into the world of magic. By learning the theories under his mentors, he was able to decide which areas were and weren’t for him, and why he was making these decisions. Manuel emphasizes how important it is to pay respect to the people in the past and to appreciate the magicians who are teaching you. By simply learning the latest method for an effect, you are losing out on the deeper theory behind why and how that effect was created. Performing Around the World During his time performing in different countries, Manuel has been able to develop his approach to communicating through magic. In Spain, Manuel had the best experience as people had been regularly exposed to magic and had an understanding of what magic can be. Similarly, Manuel enjoyed performing in India as they were like children experiencing magic. There were times where he was performing for thousands of people at one time. Contrasting this experience was his time in Malaysia. There was no community of magicians there and the public had very limited knowledge of magic – Criss Angel, Copperfield and Derren Brown was generally the extent of their exposure. Manuel was also dealing with a language barrier; he suddenly had to rework his approach and the magic he was actually performing. He ended up talking less, fully scripting out his routine rather than improvising, and presenting more visual effects. During his time in Russia, Manuel worked with a translator which resulted in his performance completely being lost. He now had to consider the effects he was performing and how he could take advantage of having a translator. He had to learn to adapt and move outside of his comfort zone to be able to perform strong magic for the audience. From his travels has come Manuel’s ability to adapt his magic for a small audience who has a minimal understanding of magic to an audience of thousands who don’t share his language. Spanish vs North American Magic The Spanish school was born out of a need for change, Manuel explains. There were seven magicians who were on a mission to move magic forward because it had stagnated after Vernon’s death. The younger generation saw it as their responsibility to move magic forward so it can have the shock and impact they desired. They took the torch and went deeper into the study of magic by deeply analyzing the theories behind magic and practice; they looked at the symbolism and the structure; they examined the symbolism behind magic and how magic interacted with cinema and theatre. The Spanish school is primarily an approach to how to study magic from a deeper, critical perspective. Manuel goes on to highlight that North America has its own schools that take a similar approach, pointing primarily to Vernon and Marlo and how they developed their own different approaches to magic. Manuel goes on to explain that to actually follow a school, you need to look at the references that the school is based on. By studying the cultural moments and theories from these older schools, you can adapt these concepts to a newer generation, pushing magic further. Emotional Effects Emotion is what hooks people to a moment. When we reflect on a memory, we tend to have an emotional reaction. Magic, Manuel explains, is a concert of emotions. By being conscious of what your audience is feeling during any given moment in your performance, you can increase the impact of your overall effect. You have to find a way to create emotion in your audience through the language of magic. Juan Tamariz has forced Manuel to think about the effect now when approaching magic. The method doesn’t matter as much as the effect, as the effect is where the sense of magic comes from. If you become married to a method, you are potentially preventing yourself from creating a stronger effect for the audience. Manuel recommends training your mind to be attracted to the effect rather than the method. Tamariz Treatment While he spent many years studying under Tamariz and is a close friend, Manuel explains that he was not a special chosen one, Tamariz was just very kind to associate with him. All of Tamariz’s teachings are available in print; you can experience and understand his teachings through text because his spirit is behind every book. When you show Tamariz an effect, you have to open your mind to new possibilities to improve the overall effect. Tamariz will ask you about the conditions, potentially forcing you to detach yourself from the method to find a better way to complete the effect. Criticism It is important to learn how to take criticism and to have arguments about why you’re doing what you’re doing. When you are given criticism, you need to analyze what is being said and how it applies to you. Is the mistake you’re making an absolute mistake like everyone can see the move? Then you’re doing it wrong. Are you being critiqued on your approach to the effect? Then it’s relative criticism that you may or may not find use in. You have to be mature enough to understand where the criticism is coming from. In some cases, people will try to place their preferences on you. Wrap-Up Memorable Moment Jonah resonated with the idea of being detached from the method, and the concept that magic is a concert of emotion. Manuel liked the overall idea of living magic as a passion. You have to put your passion into it and see through the point of view of your predecessors. And, the most important part, be happy when you perform. What do you love about 2019 magic? What do you hate about 2019 magic? Manuel likes the newest style of magic being on people’s phones. Through one minute clips, people are able to create a sense of magic through another person’s phone. It is getting magic everywhere and opening it up to a wider audience. People are consuming magic content and this is a positive for the future. Manuel doesn’t like how easy it is to obtain information. All you need to do now is type what you want into YouTube and learn the moves. There is no depth to the magic and people aren’t necessarily appreciating where the effect came from. Manuel believes you need to grow and evolve with the effect, not simply learn it. Endless Chain Juan Tamariz Michel Clavello Alan Marchese Plugs Instagram YouTube Website Penguin Lecture References The Magic of Ascanio – the Structural Conception of Magic The Magic Way The Five Points in Magic Mnemonica Verbal Magic The post Being Conscious About Your Magic with Manuel Llaser appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

For episode 150, Jonah would like to thank the listeners for accompanying him on this journey. To do so, he has sat down to reflect on a trick he has been performing for a while now to see how it has changed with him. Alongside the audio, there is a video component to accompany Jonah’s reflection. Thank you to Jacque Swan for cutting together the video. A Trick in Review For the past few years, Jonah has been performing the balloon sword swallow trick in his stage act. What started off as an awkward experience for him and the audience, slowly developed into a fun, scripted trick that ends his set and gets the audience ready for the next performer. This performance has undergone major changes in presentation, and Jonah thought he would sit down to see how and why these changes happened. The First Performance Jonah’s first performance of the balloon swallow on stage was rough. There is no music, no scripting or blocking, and he struggles to do the trick smoothly. Additionally, he performs the trick  at the beginning of his act, which doesn’t necessarily setup the atmosphere he wants for the rest of his set. However, he has jokes that land and the audience is attentive, so there is a foundation for a performance to develop out of overtime. The Middle Performance With the addition of music, a script and some practice, his balloon swallow developed into a trick that made the routine more than just  a man eating a balloon on stage. He now has a character and specific beats he is hitting during the performance. The trick, however, is still at the beginning of his set, making it difficult for him to bring the audience back in for the rest of his performance. The Recent Performance Between music that suits his goal, a script with specific beats, blocking, and moving the trick to the end of the act, Jonah has greatly improved his presentation for the balloon swallow. While there are still aspects he would like to change, he has managed to get the balloon swallow to a place where he feels that it’s a strong act.   Thank You Once more, Jonah would like to thank everyone who has gone on this journey with him. His hope is that as he’s grown over the 150 episodes, you have too, and he hopes that you’ll continue this journey with him. The post Growth in Magic appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

For episode 149, Jonah sits down with his roommate and business partner, Ben Train, to take a critical look at their own approach to magic and their performances. Approaching the Shows Each month, the two perform approximately 22 public shows under the Toronto Magic Company branch. These shows break down to their show at Dave & Buster’s, Newest Trick in the Book, and Art of Magic. Each show has the two taking a different approach to what they’re trying to accomplish: Newest Trick To Ben, The Newest Trick in the Book is meant to provide magicians a platform to gain performance experience and showcase their new material. While he would like to have a new trick each week, he’s focused on making the experience a resource for other magicians. However, when speaking on what he would like to do at the show, Ben highlights what Harrison Greenbaum said during his episode: You should be focused on breaking everything you’re doing down in order to figure out how you actually want to perform the trick. Newest Trick should be his opportunity to break down his tricks, but he doesn’t always feel like he’s taking advantage of that opportunity.   Jonah shares a similar view to Ben, but he adds on that because they are often the hosts, they need to start the show off with effects they know will work to get the audience ready. He goes on to say that, while they may not necessarily be trying out new tricks they do get the opportunity to try out different presentations and build on what they learned for their future shows. Art of Magic While the Newest Trick is about the magic community, the Art of Magic is for the audience in Ben’s mind. At every show, his focus is on casting magic in a positive light and giving the audience the best overall experience. He isn’t worried about the lineup in this case as the lineup has strong, professional performers each month, allowing him to focus on performing his best material. Agreeing with Ben, Jonah adds that this is the show he invites his friends to come watch as it’s where he’s performing his best work. Dave & Buster’s For the past 2 ½ years, Ben has been performing his show at Dave & Buster’s. Out of his three regular public shows, this is the one that Ben finds himself anxious about. It’s a challenging show due to the unknown factor of his audience; these are primarily people who came to Dave & Buster’s to play games but now find themselves attending a magic show. While he wants to create a better show, he needs to focus on providing an experience that everyone can enjoy. Ben goes on to say that you need to learn to adapt your performance to the audience. If you want to have that impact on your audience, you need to connect with them and make it seem like you’re not reciting a script. To improve how you interact with people, Ben recommends reading Three New People by Brian Miller.   Jonah worries less about this show as he’s the opener. However, taking the advice of Dave Curran, Jonah has slowly created an act that isn’t mentalism due to the headliners generally performing mentalism. Recently, Jonah realized that the character he’s become has been because of Dave & Busters. When a Show Goes Bad To put it bluntly, Ben feels like shit. When the performance goes bad, it sticks with him. He has his wins and his losses, which both stack up, but he never forgets his losses as his show is supposed to represent the culmination of his life’s work: if a show goes South, his life’s work is a waste. Ben lets the wins build him up and takes away lessons from his bad shows. He goes on to say that because he has been performing his show for so long, the worst he can do is okay. The Artist’s Plight As you get better at your craft, you will look back and say “I was bad.” With every new project you take on, you will make mistakes but you will learn from them. By the end of the project, you will look back and see everything you would like to change. In future projects, you can apply these learnings but there will always be something else that you want to change because it could be done better. As you continue to learn and apply what you learned, you will keep seeing your previous work as bad. This, Ben says, means you’re fine and that you’re growing. You look back and think your work is bad because you’re better. At his best, Ben admits that he’s not as good as some of the greats at their worst. While there is a danger to comparing yourself to other people, Ben asks why wouldn’t you want to do that? Yes, be the best you that you can be, but Ben wants to be able to affect people and perform like the greats; he doesn’t want to go on stage and be the weakest link in the show. Being Original If you create a new presentation for an existing effect, then is it original, Jonah asks. Over time, he finds himself looking at his magic and thinking that he shouldn’t be doing certain tricks as the effect exists. He would like to get to a point where he is creating and performing magic that nobody else is doing or has done. Ben, like Jonah, wants to perform his own effects, but he admits he hasn’t had the energy to create the things he’s dreamed of performing. He wants to put the work in and find a way to actually express himself through his magic. Closing Points There are tons of positives to doing magic. Yes, you can get down on yourself after a bad show, but you can go home and feel relief. When Ben had a horrible audience, he felt proud that he was able to handle it; he had learned from the past. He loves what he does and he feels great that he’s able to perform. If he hated doing magic, he wouldn’t be doing it. All the negatives he highlighted this episode are learning blocks–they are things that can be worked on and changed. Magic is in your hands. You have the ability to create your own magic, and nobody is stopping you. The post Honest Conversations for Performers with Ben Train appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

The “Millionaire’s Magician” Steve Cohen joins Jonah on Episode 148 to discuss branding, developing a show, and how to shape a career. Steve is best known for his long-running weekly show, Chamber Magic, but has also appeared on numerous television shows, produced a sold-out show at Carnegie Hall, and has performed all over the world for esteemed audiences. Ever since he was six years old, Steve’s life has been driven by magic. As an eight year old boy, he was attending school dressed in a three-piece corudroy suit because he was convinced he was meant to be a magician. Doug Henning was his inspriation, and he wanted to give that magical feeling to others. Throughout elementary and highschool, Steve would perform at birthday parties. He continued to perform during his time at Cornell University, performing for the likes of Carl Sagan and the Board of Trustees. Eventually, he decided he needed to put on his show, so he rented out the Black Box Theatre and put ads in the college paper. The shows sold out and this was his first taste of the entrepreneur side of magic which made him realize it was all worthwhile. Finding your Brand Steve wants to capture the elegant side of magic, with the hopes that he can elevate it beyond a comedy bar act. With this desire in mind, when he was searching for venues, he knew he had to find a place that would emulate the feeling of an old-style, salon show.  The National Arts Club, the Waldorf, the Lotte New York Palace Hotel are all venues that have captured the feeling of the show that Steve wanted. After finding the venue, it became a matter of meshing the show to the environment by changing the clothes he wore, building props with the room in mind, choosing the right colours. These little touches all highlight Steve’s belief that you are trying to deliver the audience an experience. His tagline “Millionaire’s Magician” was a phrase that he worried about using, believing it would isolate people even though he was already performing for millionaires. However, his friend assured him that it would benefit him, and he was correct. As he used this handle for his shows in London, the media started running with it, which eventually led to the media in New York covering it. The press continued to feed into this, making it a reality. Steve says that he won’t turn away people who aren’t millionaires because his purpose is to give people the experience of the 19th-century drawing room; he wants his audience to feel like the elite. Giving an Experience People will only talk about the experience of the show, so your show needs to be solid. Last October, Steve passed his 5000 performance of his show Chamber Magic. However, it has evolved over the years with his audience and his goals.  While his goal is to melt the audience’s brains, he primarily wants them to leave to tell their friends and family about the experience. When you’re putting together a show, you need to consider the material you’re putting into it. If you simply do the material everyone else is doing, you’ll become an interchangeable performer. People come to a show expecting to see something they’ve never seen before, so it is your job to deliver that experience. With this in mind, Steve often searches old publications for tricks that haven’t been seen in decades; he’ll then adapt them to his style by updating the methods and techniques. Maxims In Steve’s book Win the Crowd, he covers the idea of maxims in magic, simple rules you can apply to take control of any situation. When writing the book, he wanted to remain true to what magicians are doing without tipping off non-magicians to the secrets. This led to him creating chapters around key concepts in magic, using magicians as examples of how these concepts can be applied. These maxims are: Be Bold Expect SuccessDon’t State, Suggest Practice, Practice, PracticeBe prepared Steve applies these concepts not only to his magic but to any venture he approaches. Going on to quote Daniel Burnham, the chief architect of the Chicago’s World Fair, Steve says he follows the motto “Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men’s blood.” Steve views his career as one large experiment which he has the ability to shape. From his book, to his graphic novel, to the shows he puts on, every project he does is meant to shape a career that he can proudly look back on in his old age. Max Malini Steve first came across Max Malini when he was a young teenager reading Learned Pigs & Fireproof Women by Ricky Jay. The chapter dedicated to stories about Max Malini was a revelatory moment for young Steve. The primary appeal of Max was that he didn’t travel with a lot of equipment; he took a minimalisitc, almost improtpu approach, to his performances, which added more to the magic due to the seemingly unprepared nature of the effects. Steve highlights that Malini had a balance betwen planning and spur of the moment inspriation; by having an understanding of effects in his toolbox, Malini was able to make magic happen whenever he was presented with a situation. Approaching Performing When you do the same show over and over again, it can begin to feel stale or repetitive. To Steve, however, each show is a chance for him to improve and put on the best show of his life. Additionally, while it may be his 5000th performance of the show, it’s the first time for somebody in the audience; if he were to go on stage and blow off the performance, he is potentially crushing somebody’s excitement in the audience. Every show is a chance to make it fresh for yourself and the audience. In terms of creating and scripting the show, Steve lays out his process in two layers: the procedure and the emotional hook. While the procedure is the instructions necessary for the specators, the emotional hook needs to be there so he can connect with the audience and leave them with something memorable. He doesn’t necessarily have a formula for creating hooks; he just free writes for three minutes and then chooses concepts and ideas that resonate with him. His major goal is to make it seem like he isn’t just reading a script on stage, so he carefully selects the words he uses on stage, knowing that certain language suits him and his show best. Wrap Up What do you love about 2018 magic? What do you hate about 2018 magic? Steve likes that people are attending magic shows and that there are more going on around the country. He notes that several performers have taken inspiration from his show, and he is glad that he has inspired so many people. Steve is not a fan of videos that are made just for the sake of showing off moves. As a performer, he sees magic as being an interplay with the audience. He encourages people to still learn sleights, but to also look down the line of how you could apply these sleights to a performance. Take Home Point Jonah liked the idea of trying to make everything feel fresh and putting on your best show each time. Steve likes the encompassing idea of just doing your best magic because people are interested in magic now. They find joy in it so if you can do the best magic possibly, you can bring them that joy. Plugs Evergreen by Steve Cohen is a book that will be released by Vanishing Inc. in the coming yearMillionaires’ Magician Win the Crowd Chamber Magic Instagram The post Make No Small Plans with Steve Cohen appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

Jay Sankey sits down with Jonah for episode 147 to discuss magic online, creating and persuasive communication. Not only does Jay hold the world record for creating the most original illusions, but he runs a successful YouTube channel, is an international public speaker, comedian, performer, and consultant. Jay’s interest in magic started when his grandmother gave him a magic set for his eleventh birthday. However, she had picked up the magic set during a European tour, so the instructions were in German. From the get-go, Jay had to develop his own way to perform tricks. He kept with magic because it was something that he wasn’t necessarily good with at first but he had the drive to improve. As he continued with it, he found it was a way for him to show his awkward self without having to actually reveal his actual self; he found that lay people were happy to accept the cardboard cut out of what a magician is perceived to be. Jay began performing at birthdays and in church basements when he was fifteen. When he won the award for close-up magic at Tannen’s Magic Camp, Jay believed that his fate was sealed. Although he did attend the University of Toronto to study philosophy and psychology so that he could go into advertising, Jay was deep into magic. Persuasive Communication Alongside his magic, Jay is an international public speaker who presents on and runs workshops for persuasive communication. Using his background in marketing and ad copy, Jay explains how people’s choices are primarily driven by their emotions as much as the ideas they’re presented with. His core goal when approaching copywriting is directing the audience to a certain collection of emotions but allowing them enough room to apply their imagination; you are inspiring the audience to create their own interpretation which is a concept that can be applied to presenting magic. Jay goes on to explain how communication, especially in our current landscape, is about brevity. If you don’t grab the audience’s attention right off the back, you have nothing. However, simply getting their attention isn’t enough. You need to get their attention while remaining on brand. When you do get their attention, you have the opportunity to continue to sell yourself and your magic. From there, it’s about finding a throughline that allows you to transition from trick to trick without losing the audience. Teaching Magic Online Jay began to put magic on YouTube after realizing that he isn’t thrilled with where magic is today. The often condescending and dismissive nature towards magic by the general public, and the confusion between an amateur and a veteran performer, frustrates him. With this as his basis, Jay figured he needed to do something to change how magic is viewed. His question is not “should these secrets be revealed?’ but “how and where should these secrets be revealed?” Secrets like a thumb tip or invisible thread are not the real secrets of magic to Jay. The secrets of magic come in the form of the psychology and theory behind the tricks that employ these tools. However, most people aren’t concerned with this content when they’re trying to discover these tricks online. By teaching magic on YouTube, he has the opportunity to distill the important information alongside the usage of magic tools by bringing his own authenticity to teaching the material. His belief is that if there is going to be bad magic, he might as well balance it out with his knowledge and appreciation for the art. Overall, Jay wants to move the art of magic forward. He wants to improve how it is viewed by the general public, and this is his way of helping that cause. Creating Magic When you’re creating magic, you need to consider your relationship to your ideas, Jay says. If you are judging your ideas and comparing them to others, you’re going to find it difficult to create. Creating is about expressing who you are and how you relate to magic. You need to be able to give yourself permission to write down your ideas and allow them to develop over time. Additionally, don’t put your ideas on a pedestal as it will only halt your creative process. Jay doesn’t mind that people are doing his tricks the way he does them because he understands not everyone can create magic. However, when someone expresses an interest in creating their own magic to show themselves, Jay wants to encourage that desire. Jay goes on to remind people that just because you’re performing an already created or established trick, you shouldn’t stop yourself from bringing in your own personality and interpretation to the actual performance. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Richard Sanders David Acer Mike Scott What do you love about 2018 magic? What do you hate about 2018 magic? Jay likes the fact that we are being exposed to different, interesting personalities in magic. The growing diversity in magic is fantastic and is causing magic to move away from the narrow representation we often see. Jay doesn’t like the culture of stylization that we have moved into and how there is a lot of magic that is made exclusively for camera. There is a lot of content that is obviously stooged and rigged that is being represented as magic. He isn’t a fan of the confusion this brings. Take Home Point Jonah liked the overlap copywriting/marketing has with magic, and how we should be focus on staying on brand. Jay liked the idea of finding and following your joy in magic, and not getting caught up in other things. He reminds everyone that we all generally got into magic because of joyful, goal free reasons. Plugs Jay’s Instagram Jay’s Youtube Sankey Talks The post YouTube, Exposure and Making Magic with Jay Sankey appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

Jonah sits down with Haim Goldenberg to discuss the business of magic, taking risks and finding your character for episode 146. Haim is an Israeli-Canadian mentalist who is behind Cryptext and the show Goldmind. The first magician Haim saw was Uri Geller. Wanting to be like Uri, young Haim spent his time trying to bend spoons with his mind and hypnotizing people in the streets.  Over time, he learned that Uri’s powers weren’t real and that he needed to learn magic to pull off the miracles he saw on television. Haim spent several years performing as a magician, primarily for kids shows, before switching fully to mentalism. While mentalism became his career, magic still remains his hobby. Taking Risks If you want to succeed, you need to be willing to adapt and change yourself to better suit the demands of your audience, Haim says. It is difficult to succeed if you don’t take risks. Switching to solely performing mentalism for adults was a huge risk for him. When he quit performing magic at kids shows, Haim took a financial hit during his first six months as he reestablished himself.  However, he eventually started getting the shows that he wanted to perform and is now successful as a mentalist. The major risk he took in changing his performance style allowed him to succeed in an area that was truer to his character. Finding your Character When you’re performing, people are there to see you, they’re not there to just see magic tricks, so it’s important to find out who you are on stage. From there, you can determine what magic suits your character and how you can bring your own personality into the tricks you’re performing. To uncover your character, you have to remain true to yourself. Don’t try to be like other magicians or performers on stage that you admire as it won’t be authentic. While you can play a character on stage, it needs to be a character that you created. The only way to improve and understand who you are on stage is performing. Experience is the most important aspect in becoming a better magician as you can’t improve if you don’t perform. Overall, don’t try to impress your audience. You, as a person, are not trying to impress people in your everyday life, and you should be like that on stage. You want your audience to have fun with you, and Haim believes that the audience will love you because they want to love you. Magic as a Business When you’re starting out, money should not be your focus. Your focus should be on developing yourself and getting to a point where you can begin to raise your costs to better match your skill level. Haim emphasizes that you need to be aware of what you’re worth and that you should raise your costs in reasonable increments. While you may be a good magician, you may not be great at the business or marketing aspects. It may be beneficial for you to find the right person who is able to sell you. If you are a professional, Haim recommends committing 90% of your time to marketing and 10% to practicing magic. After you perform, you should try to remain attached to your clients by keeping in touch with them. People may love you, but they will forget about you so reaching out to them will help keep you in their minds when they need an entertainer. Creating for Television Creating a television show is a huge undertaking and is the second risk Haim took in his career. When creating the pilot for Goldmind, Haim used his life savings to fund the episode; he vowed to quit magic if a producer didn’t pick the show up. After sending the pilot episode around to various studios, it was picked up for thirteen episodes. Haim goes on to explain that his show succeeded because of his character. Referencing Justin Willman’s show Magic for Humans, Haim explains that a character is what separates you from other shows and makes the audience want to return. Just because you’re good onstage, doesn’t mean you’re good on television. A successful show requires directors and consultants who understand how television works and how to adapt your magic for the medium. Haim believes that if you want to succeed on television, you need to learn how to listen to professionals in the field.   Wrap Up What do you like about 2018/19 magic? What do you hate? Haim likes how fast pace everything has become. Additionally, he likes how connected the world is as you can see so many magicians that you may have otherwise never seen. Haim dislikes how people have become lazy because they can get whatever they like when they want it. He feels people aren’t putting in the time and effort to learn. Endless Chain Lior Manor Nimrod Harel Amir Lustig Lior Suchard Take Home Point Jonah liked the idea of not being lazy and putting in the necessary effort to improve your magic. Haim liked the idea of going out and finding places to perform to gain experience. Plugs Cryptext 2 Goldmind Website Instagram The post Scaling Up your Performance with Haim Goldenberg appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

To start off 2019, Jonah sits down with Steve Shaw, better known as Banachek, to discuss mentalism, the ethics behind deception, and parapsychology. Banachek is one of the world’s leading mindreaders who has helped debunk psychic claims, created effects for leading performers and is sought after by venues around the world for his performances. When Banachek started, he wasn’t aware that there was a subsection of magic called mentalism. He just knew there were psychics fooling people with tricks. Banachek, born in England before emigrating to South Africa, had a troubled childhood which saw him raising his two younger brothers. This prevented him from developing his social skills alongside other children. He was the kid in the back of the class who was afraid of being called on. When he was raising his brothers, he would always try to instill the value of fairness in them. He wanted them to know right from wrong–a value he still holds dear to this day. Project Alpha Project Alpha was a four-year-long hoax that involved planting Banachek and Michael Edwards in a parapsychology research project to demonstrate that it is possible to fake psychic powers in a controlled environment. Banachek initially went in believing it to be an “I’m against them” scenario to prove that the proper protocols were not being followed by the scientists. However, he eventually came to the realization that things weren’t necessarily black and white; the scientists weren’t evil, they were just imposing their own beliefs on the trials and believing they could not be fooled. Before the project began, James Randi sent the scientists a list of eleven caveats to follow so that they could truly test the psychic claims of Banachek and Edwards. The scientists dismissed the suggestions, saying that Banachek and Edwards would be unable to perform under such conditions. During the project, Banachek would write letters to Randi explaining how they would manipulate the tests; Randi would then inform the scientists that they should look out for these exact methods during their experiments. The scientists would, again, dismiss the suggestions. Overall, the project revealed that we can be fooled and that we need to be more open to the idea that we can be fooled. This focus on critical thinking is something that Banachek still tries to instill in people today.   Deception of Mentalism Banachek believes that the difference between a psychic and a mentalist is that the mentalist doesn’t claim to have real psychic power. He, as a mentalist, is taking the five known senses to create the illusion of a sixth sense. In terms of if we are lying to the audience, Banachek says that “a lie is a lie is a lie.” If you tell your audience that everything is pure psychology, you leave it open to people to expose that you are lying which will affect how other performers are viewed. When he was starting out, he would say he was using magic and tricks in his performance, only to be told by other mentalists that cheapens the art. Banachek never understood why, as the essence of what they’re doing is fake. At the moment, they are duplicating psychic phenomena, but, when you’re off stage, you don’t want to leave the door open for people to make their own assumptions about what actually occurred as it can lead the spectator to dangerous assumptions. This is why Banachek will constantly reinforce the idea that what he’s doing isn’t real which, in a way, makes his effects stronger as the audience is thinking “how could you have possibly known” compared to “he’s a real psychic.” To him, telling people that what he is doing is fake comes from an ethical standpoint because he sees himself as an authoritative figure on stage; people don’t know what to expect when they go to a mentalism show, so they’re going to believe whatever it is he tells them if he’s convincing enough. Pseudoscience & Magic You are not going to convince everyone that pseudoscience is fake, especially if you are hostile in confronting people. What you can do is talk about pseudoscience on the correct platforms to inform people and get them thinking critically about what they’re being told. Banachek goes on to explain that we should be focusing on the larger mediums as they’re the ones influencing the masses; we can use their publicity to educate people. If we are to educate on a smaller level, it shouldn’t be confrontational or else people will put up a wall. It’s better to have an educated discussion to understand their viewpoint. You can’t just think everyone is stupid because they don’t know what you know. Banachek highlights his show Telepathy as an example of how he approaches educating people. During the first half, he comes out as psychic to build the same emotional reaction the audience would have if they went to see a psychic.  In the second half of the show, he comes out to inform the audience that what he did was all fake. He wants the audience to know that they can be fooled and that they shouldn’t believe blindly. He wants the audience to know that they don’t need to necessarily change their views, they just need to realize that there are those who will take advantage of their beliefs.   Million Dollar Challenge The JREF offered one million dollars to anyone who could demonstrate a supernatural or paranormal ability under scientific testing conditions — the test was terminated in 2015 but Banachek says it will likely be coming back in a different form. The difficult part about conducting the claims was coming up with a test that was agreeable to science and the psychic. When they conducted the tests, they wanted the subject to succeed, but they needed the participant to succeed under the proper test conditions. No one was ever able to pass the preliminary stages.     Believability and Criss Angel When he was working with Criss Angel, the goal was to create believable magic; it’s not a good trick if it doesn’t look real. When he was creating effects for the show, they would come up with 300 tricks per season and then they would have to quickly figure out presentation and method as they had a tight filming window. Often, they were restricted by the environment. Banachek knew that they didn’t have to stooge things for the effect to be fooling on some level, so he took advantage of the medium. Editing allowed them to hide methods that would otherwise be exposed on television, or they could block the show in a way to avoid exposed angles. These methods, Banachek said, are similar to blocking a routine on a stage. He wants the audience at home to have a similar experience to the participants in real life, so he took advantage of the medium. Banachek goes on to explain that there are always going to be purists who see certain methods as dirty or impure. However, magicians are in the business of deceit, so it’s difficult to say what is and isn’t a dirty method when it comes to trickery. By going online to expose other magicians for using “dirty methods” they’re hurting the art form as a whole, not just the singular performer. Once you have people thinking a magician uses a particular method, they’ll begin to think that’s how all magicians approach the effect.   Wrap-Up How has the audience changed? Banachek hasn’t necessarily seen a change in his audience, but he has noticed that people are attending more live performances for the uniqueness of the experience. Endless Chain Andrew Gerard Take Home Point Jonah likes the idea of leaving the audience better off than when he found them.   Banachek likes the idea of not attacking people when you want to educate them. Tyas liked talking about how magicians are often cannibalizing the culture and how people tend to discredit methods and other performers. He wants people to be building the artform, not stifling it. Last Words Be positive about magic. When you knock down another magician, you’re tearing down yourself, and you’re knocking down the art form. Plugs Banachek’s Brain – Podcast Website Instagram Twitter   The post The Truth About Mentalism with Banachek appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

New year, new magic! To ring in the new year, Jonah sits down with Ben Train, Chris Mayhew, and Jacque Swan to discuss their magic highlights and lowlights from 2018, and what they plan to change for the upcoming year. Contest Winner Jonah would like to thank everyone who entered the contest. With 614 individuals who entered the contest, and a total of 7,271 total entries, you have made this the largest contest Discourse in Magic has ever put on. But, now, the moment you’ve been waiting for. The winner is: @alexbowden52  Congratulations! Thank you again to everyone who entered! Highlights Ben: The shows he put on through the Toronto Magic Company were highlights for him. He is proud of what they were able to accomplish and how the company developed throughout the year. As a personal highlight, he was honoured to have been able to perform at the Chicago Magic Lounge. Chris: Consulting on his first TV show, called the Thrillusionists, was the biggest highlight for him this year. Not only did he get to marry his passions of filming and magic, but he was able to see how to execute a major project. His second highlight was finally seeing the fruits of his labour come to fruition, as he finally released his deck of cards: Leon Playing Cards. Jacque: Taking up coin magic was her highlight in 2018. It helped her further her studies of magic, and she doesn’t believe she would be as into the community if it wasn’t for coin magic. Jonah: Newest Trick becoming a weekly show was his highlight this year. Not only did it allow him to up his number of performances, but it helped foster a magic community that has allowed him and other Toronto magicians to grow. Lowlights Ben: Over the past year, he spent a lot of time focusing his time and energy on projects outside of his personal show. Due to this, he feels like his personal show has fallen behind in terms of quality, and he isn’t exactly excited to perform it now. Chris: In a sense, taking a year off performing was a lowlight. It was odd not performing after doing it for so long. This decision came from him feeling like his old character was not working for him, and he felt like the effects were married to this character. However, by taking a step back he was able to realize that he loves performing and gained a new perspective on who he is as a performer. Jacque: She regrets not showing people the material she has been working on and regressing back to her social anxiety tendencies. When she does show her material, she often only shows effects that she is confident in performing rather than new material. Jonah: He didn’t take seriously the sheer amount of creativity required to complete all the projects he took on this year. 2019 Magic Resolution Ben: Last year, his goal was to focus on creating more original magic. However, he didn’t perform a lot of the material he developed. This year, he vows to implement his changes rather than just talk about them. Chris: He plans to start performing again now that he’s taken time off. Jacque: Her goal is to figure out who she is and how this relates to her performance. Jonah: He feels that his character has developed over the past year so some of the magic he is currently doing doesn’t necessarily fit with who he has become. In the new year, he plans to look at who he has become and what magic better suits this new character. Words of Wisdom Ben: “I don’t have to be here, I get to be here.” Chris: “Just enjoy doing things.” Jacque: “Don’t be afraid to show people what you’re working on.” Jonah: You need to actually do more than just read and watch magic. You need to actively implement your ideas and what you’re learning to actually grow in your magic. The post Magic 2018 vs. 2019 with Ben Train, Chris Mayhew, and Jacque Swan appeared first on Discourse in Magic.