Discourse in Magic

On episode 160, Jonah sits down with Michel Clavello to discuss finding the magic that’s right for you, how to share joy through your magic and producing magic products. Co-owner of Vernet Magic, Michel is a magician and mentalist from Argentina who has won several awards at major conferences for his innovative illusions. Michel was a ten year old boy in Argentina when he started doing magic. With limited access to magic, Michel only had the books from the library and a short, black & white television program where only a set of hands would demonstrate and teach a trick. At eleven, he discovered a magic shop in Buenos Aires which he attended with his friend. To this day Michel can still recall the beating of his heart as he approached the shop. Michel would soon discover a second magic shop where he would eventually meet the great magic masters who would become his mentors. While Michel currently performs mentalism, he explored everything as a child die to his deep love for everything in magic. From children’s birthdays, to close-up, to stage, to manipulation, it would only be at the behest of one his mentors that he chooses one area to focus on.   Mentors Throughout his career, Michel has had several mentors who have shaped his knowledge and passion for magic. From the magic club, Michel learnt under a man named Oscar Keller who became like a father to him in magic. They would often meet up multiple times a week to discuss and develop their magic, allowing Michel to go deeper into the craft. The magic club is also where he was introduced to Greco—his current co-owner of Vernet Magic. Michel also had two major masters who’s words still remain with him in all of hide performances; Juan Tamariz and Fantasio. Michel was fifteen when he met Juan; he was competing in a conference and Juan happened to be one of his judges. Throughout his career, Michel would attend Juan’s lectures and have the chance to watch him perform. Eventually, Juan would be the one to prompt Michel to choose a specific area to focus on and explore it deeply. Where Juan was the deep, insightful thinker, Fantasio was the artist. Michel would see Fantasio performing on TV and wanted to be like him. The two eventually became good friends, and, to this day, Michel can still feel his words whenever he performs. Competing For Michel, competing has never been about winning first place. While it was nice to win, competitions became a way for him to focus on accomplishing one thing. He needed to have an act polished by the time the conference arrived which prevented him from veering off to explore new areas of magic. Vernet Magic Michel, alongside his friend Greco, owns and operates Vernet Magic which is known for producing thumb tips and other strong effects. The two purchased the company in 1994 from Vernet and continued to create the products already in production; it would be over the course of a few years that they would improve and update the molds for the products. At his first conference when he was fifteen, Michel met Vernet, and it would be to him that Michel showed his first thumb tip to. Vernet, who had entered magic later in life, brought a childlike wonder in his approach to magic. At the competition the two competed in, he performed a stage illusion like a parlour trick, winning him first place over Michel. In terms of the products released today by Vernet Magic, Michel says they only take on and produce effects that they like. Whether they do the effect in their shows or it brings a genuine joy to them, Michel explains that it has to be a real, human effect because they have to spend time to bring the concept into reality; he doesn’t want to view it as an arduous task. Magic Library In a corner of his home, Michel has an extensive magic library. He finds a nostalgia in books that reminds him of being a child and opening the pages to learn a new secret. Between receiving the book in the mail and feeling the pages as he riffles through them, there is a magic, to him, in the physical book. He knows where every book is on his shelf and will spend time just going through his collection. With that being said, Michel still sees a value in eBooks. When he’s travelling, he knows that all he needs is his phone to bring the collection with him and continue his studies; he doesn’t need to bring unwieldy books with him in his bag or risk damaging them. However, Michel belio that you can’t get the same feeling from your phone. That tactile feeling brings a connection to the content that you seem to lose otherwise with a phone. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Juan Esteban What do you like about modern magic? What do you hate? Michel likes that we have entered into a new golden age of magic. Where before you had a handful of good magicians, you can now go to New York and see a handful of fantastic shows playing in different venues. Michel doesn’t necessarily like the route close up magic has taken for competitions. It’s playing for the screen, not the audience, but he doesn’t hate it; he finds it beautiful. He would just prefer they call it a more apt name like “screen magic.” Take Home Point Jonah resonated with the idea of doing magic that brings you joy. The better you can connect to what makes you happy, the better you’ll do moving forward. Michel agreed, adding that you need to bring passion into your work. He reminds us that magic is a gift; you are performing an effect for somebody that may change their day or life if done well. Plugs Vernetmagic.com The post Finding Joy in Magic with Michel Clavello appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

Gambling expert, Norman Beck, sits down with Jonah for episode 159 to discuss taking a logical approach, public speaking and when to take a bet. Alongside being a magician and public speaker, Norman has been the VP of Claims and Security for SCA for the past 24 years, spending his time working out how individuals may cheat the system. Norman’s interest in magic started around the age of eight. While he was attending an event with the Boy Scouts, he went on stage with a a magician for the first time in his life. Soon after, his mother gave him the Boy Scouts’ magic book and his interest continued to grow since then. Like most magicians, Norman started out doing children’s birthday parties while he was in highschool. In college, he began to do close up magic at a restaurant. It was at the restaurants that Norman grew his skillset and learned what to do and not to do. When he left college, Norman spent five years working as a police officer, using magic to connect with the community during their outreach times. After leaving his job, he moved to Arkansas and was briefly married. During his divorce, money became tight and he found himself leaning cold reading to get by. It would be years later that Norman would begin his current job of ensuring gambling games. Claims and Security If you’re hosting an event where individuals have the chance to win a sum of money, you’re probably working with Norman. To summarize what he does, Norman is the one flies who flies around the world, giving away money for contests like field goal kicks, publisher clearing house, or televised games shows. His job is to ensure that the games are being run fairly and, when there is a claim, that the claim is legitimate. Norman found himself taking on the job about twenty four years ago after his friend and Bridge player, Bob Hammon, contacted him asking if he wanted to join his venture. Previously, Norman had turned down the job offer as he thought the concept of insuring games of chance was absurd. However, finding himself trapped in his job as an insurance adjuster, Norman accepted the offer and moved to Texas where’s he lived ever since. When to Play When you approach a gamble, wage, or bet, there are a few things you need to keep in mind. The first being that, if it didn’t cost you anything to play, there is no downside to playing. The second major thing to keep in mind is, never bet in a casino. The odds are heavily in the house’s favour and the best you can hope for is a short haul. When determining if you should play a game or make a choice, Norman says it comes down to understanding what you’re getting yourself into. How are you spending your money? What knowledge do you have of the situation? What are the odds like for you, and how can you make them lean further in your favour? When you take a logical approach to a situation, you have a better chance of understanding what the outcome may be. Public Speaking A few years ago, Norman was asked to give a presentation about what he does for a living. Not wanting to do it, he quoted them an outrageous price, only for them to accept it. Begrudgingly, he did the speech only to learn that he actually enjoys public speaking more then magic. To him, where magic is away to help people momentarily escape the world, public speaking gives him the chance to help change the world. When he gives speeches, Norman recounts his time of coping with a brain tumour. Six or seven years ago, he was diagnosed with a brain tumour the size of a baseball after going to the doctor to have his hearing checked. Taking the fact that he could die out of the equation, Norman approached his surgery in a very systematic way. He visited a malpractice doctor to understand if the surgeons were as skilled as it was claimed; he spoke with previous patients who had undergone similar surgeries; he hired a doctor to sit with his family during the operation so that if any questions were asked, the doctor could help them make the right call. He tells this story when he gives his speech so that his audience can understand that you can do certain things to help when you’re approaching a situation. Norman goes on to say that if you actually want to be like him, you need to accept that you’re not that smart. Three People Who Shaped His Magic Over his lifetime, Norman says there have been three conversations that have shaped his view on magic. Don Alan When Norman was fourteen, he attended his first magic convention where the headliner was Don. Not knowing who Don was, Norman reserved three seats near the front of the room at the request of veteran magicians. After watching Don perform an hour of close-up, Norman knew that that’s what he wanted to do. So much so, that Norman told Don that he was going to do everything he did. Don, seeing a sixteen year old standing before him, told Norman to go home, get naked, and stare at himself in his mirror until he accepted that he was not Don Alan, and that if he ever tried to be, the best he could be is second. Don explained that if Norman wanted to be good, he would need to learn who he is. Jay Marshall Young and naive, Norman had the opportunity to speak with Jay Marshall at an airport. Not really knowing Jay, Norman asked “How do you know if a trick is good?” In response, Jay told him that “you don’t know if a trick is good. The audience will tell you.” Jay went on to explain that after you did a trick five hundred times for an audience, you’ll be able to see if a trick is good or not. Noram wrote this down in his notebook and has been taking it to heart ever since. Chuck Smith If you’re not familiar with Chuck Smith, Norman wants you to know that all the big names have made a trek to visit him. Chuck may not be a fulltime magician, but he is the smartest magician Norman has ever met. Fifteen years ago, Chuck’s wife, Thelma, was in the hospital for open heart surgery. At the time, she was not in good shape and they weren’t sure if she was going to make it. Being best friends, Norman went to visit Chuck and sat with him in the waiting room; Chuck was only able to see his wife for fifteen minutes every two hours. When Norman was leaving, he asked if Chuck needed anything, who then began to rattle off a list of magic props. While Norman left thinking that it wasn’t the time or place for magic tricks, he happily obliged his friend and brought back the props. When Norman returned in the morning, he found Chuck smiling from ear to ear. He informed Norman that he no longer had to follow the silly two hour rule and could see his wife whenever he wanted to. It was at this moment that Norman realized that people look at magic a lot of different ways, but at its core, magic is a key. Magic can allow people to unlock doors they would otherwise have no access to. Wrap-Up What do you like about modern magic? What do you hate? Norman likes Juan Tamariz recent book on the theory of magic: Magic Rainbow Norman doesn’t like that magicians who don’t have the flight time are selling tricks that just aren’t very good. Endless Chain Howard Hamburg Favourite Part Jonah liked the idea of stepping back from a situation and using logic to determine the route you should take. Norman reiterates two ideas: If you want to be good, get a mentor.If you want to be good, you need to get out there and perform. Plugs Norman’s Website TedX Talk Penn’s Sunday School The post Wagers, Bets, and Gambles with Norman Beck appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

On episode 158, Matt Johnson joins Jonah to discuss escapology, adding human elements to your magic, and recreating your brand. You may know Matt for his water tank escape on Penn & Teller: Fool Us or for his semi-place finish on Britain’s Got Talent. Matt remembers a wind-up box at his grandmother’s house sparking his initial love for magic. While not a magic trick, it still gave him this magical feeling and caused him to want to know how a little box could play music. At the age of twelve, he started learning tricks and, after performing for Matt’s siblings’ birthday, a magician took Matt under his wing. Soon, he was attending his local shop every weekend right through his teen years. The magic shop was his grounding and it allowed him to immerse himself in everything from sleight-of-hand, to mentalism, to unicycling. At the age of eighteen, he was encouraged to follow what he loved and he began to perform for every venue – from bowling alleys to corporate shows. In terms of his interest in escapes, he first attempted them when he was sixteen. His first and last time in a straitjacket involved him dangling from a crane and simply escaping the jacket. At the age of eighteen, his interest in his escapes stopped and it wouldn’t be until three years ago that he took them back up. Restarting Escapes For his entire twenty year long career, Matt has been a full performing magician and a jack of all trades in the magic he performed. However, three years ago he hit a brick wall. His performances were becoming robotic and his passion for magic was dwindling. He knew he needed to change or he was going to stop altogether. Around this time, he had been visiting his local swimming pool to learn how to hold his breath. Matt was not training for an escape or for a magic related reason; he was learning how to hold his breath to understand the experience his brother goes through. Born with a rare genetic disease called Tuberous Sclerosis, Matt’s brother experiences seizures which cause him to be unable to breathe or speak, trapping him alone in his mind as he waits for the seizure to stop. As his older brother, Matt wanted to know what it felt like to be alone in your head, unable to breathe, so he took to the swimming pool to learn. Ultimately, Matt knew that to truly understand, he needed to be locked in a box so that even if he wanted to come out, he would still need to escape. So he built the water tank and began to rehearse. The four minutes he could do in the pool, quickly became twenty seconds in the tank. With the knowledge that you’re locked inside comes a whole new psychological game. That moment for Matt was when he truly began the struggle his brother was going through. The Human Element At the end of the day, Matt doesn’t approach the water tank escape from a performance perspective. He doesn’t train for it by learning free diving or breath holding techniques; the only training Matt had was the training he did through his sheer persistence at his local pool. That’s why when you watch Matt perform and he says that “after a minute thirty underwater, he’s in trouble,” he sincerely means that he’ll be in trouble. This, in Matt’s opinion, is what allows him to truly connect with his audience. And it’s that connection he’s looking for in his escapes, as people should be doing in all of their performances. When the audience is able to see that what he’s enduring is real and that there is a struggle going on, they actually care about him. They remember how they felt for him while he’s struggling to escape. Matt explains that magic is not about tricks, it’s about the audience remembering the connection you made with them. Because the audience can see Matt struggling, they want him to succeed. So, when he stands up, free from the tank, the audience is compelled to stand with him. Don’t Try This at Home For those who wish to take up escapes, Matt’s first piece of advice is: Don’t try this at home. Any escape is dangerous. If you’re going to attempt anything like an escape, you need have a spotter nearby with a key for the locks. If you’re practicing holding your breath, alert the lifeguards and let them know what you’re doing. You may pass out long before you reach your actual limit. With anything that has an element of danger, injury or death is a real option. You need to treat escapes with the utmost respect and professionalism if attempting them. Britain’s Got Talent It took five years for Matt to get on Britain’s Got Talent. Each year he would send in audition video after audition video. Eventually, in 2017, he sent in a rudimentary version of his water tank escape. During his audition, however, his water tank shattered at the two minute mark, flooding the stage. To remind him to not stop chasing his dreams, he got a tattoo on his hand that says: Never Give Up. For 2018, he applied again. Only for no one to reply. However, determined to get on the show, he continued to contact them until they finally got back to him. This was the audition everyone saw, and this was he water tank escape that changed his life. This was an important lesson for him as it reminded him to not give up. Penn & Teller His appearance on Penn & Teller came six weeks after his water tank exploded on BGT. Depressed, afraid to go underwater, and without a water tank, Matt wanted to give up. Instead, he bought a new water tank and sent it right to the Rio Theatre. Backstage on the show, Matt tried out the water tank only to find it was crushing his lungs and that he now felt claustrophobic. His assistant asked him what he wanted to do with Matt deciding that he would push through it. For those wanting to get on Penn & Teller, Matt reminds you that Fool Us is meant to exhibit talented magicians; it’s about taking the opportunity to showcase who you are and using the opportunity they give you. If you put on a good performance, people will want to come out to see you. Wrap-Up What do you like about 2019 magic? What do you hate? The ability to reach the magic community is both amazing and disappointing. Nowadays, it’s so easy for anyone ot be a creator and release their gems to the world. When Matt was younger, he didn’t have that opportunity to instantly connect with new magic from around the world. However, it’s primarily about selling magic to magicians now. Releases need to be flashy so that people will buy them–often resulting in distributors to pass over thoroughly polished material. Endless Chain Vitaly Beckman Christopher Taylor Bro Gilbert Take Home Point Jonah likes the idea of being persistnet and not giving up, alongside knowing the why behind what you’re doing. Matt reminds the audience to Never Give Up. Plugs Matt’s Instagram Matt’s Facebook Penguin Magic Journey In Plain Sight The post Never Give Up with Matt Johnson appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

With Toronto’s annual magic convention, The Browser’s Bash, right around the corner, Jonah sits down for episode 157 to give you ten tips on maximizing your magic convention experience. Ten Things to Remember for Magic Conventions 1. Relationships Over Advice Whether the convention is one day or three, you will probably have the opportunity to interact with multiple magicians during your time there. While you may be getting good advice from one person, you may be missing out on the chance to develop meaningful relationships with other magicians. 2. Do Your Research Before you attend the convention, you will want to conduct research on the performers and lecturers–they’ve been asked to headline the convention for a reason, after all. If you decided to skip a lecture or performance because you don’t know who they are, then you may miss out on valuable information. 3. Seek First to Understand, and Then to be Understood Taken from Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, you should try to understand who the other person is before you try to help yourself. By having someone show you something, you can get a sense of who they are and then decide if they can help you improve yourself. 4. What are you working on? Don’t ask “What can I help you with?” because it doesn’t signal that you’re paying attention to what they’re doing. Similarly, “Show me something” may result in them showing you a gag trick or something that doesn’t show who they are as a performer. By asking “What are you working on?” or “What are you currently playing with?”, you get the best sense of who they are as it’s the effect that is currently occupying their time. 5. How to Give Advice First of all, you should only give advice if you’re asked. You can offer to give them advice, but launching in to a criticism of their work will only come across as a hostile rather than helpful or supportive. When you are giving advice, give them a compliment sandwich. Say something nice, give the negative and how they may go about fixing it, and then say something nice again so you finish on a positive. 6. Tricks to Bring When preparing for a convention, magicians often prepare for magic conventions by bringing a technically challenging, deceptive trick that doesn’t necessarily show who they are. Instead of that, Jonah recommends bringing: A trick that he wants help with A trick he is confident in fully performing A magician fooler 7. How to Ask for Help and How to Ask for Advice When you’re at the convention, you want people to know that you want their advice. So, ask them. But, tell them why you want their advice so that they know why they are super valuable to you. If they’re really good at a certain type of trick that relates to what you’re working on, then let them know that’s why you’re seeking out their advice. 8. Little Wins Because the goal of the convention is to make relationships, you want to leave each person you meet with some sort of little win. Whether this be giving them the advice they need, directing them to a book that will help them improve, or connecting them with a person who may have the solution they need, you can leave them with a little win that will have them remembering you helped make them stronger. 9. Bathroom & Food There may be a moment where you find yourself talking to someone that you just don’t want to be talking to. Or perhaps you want to move on to the next person but you find yourself trapped in conversation. Either way, if you need to slip away, tell them you need to use the washroom or grab a bite to eat. Just remember to grab a piece of contact info. 10. The Followup After the convention, you need to follow up with the people you met if you want to keep those connections. Did you promise someone you’d send them relevant information? Send the information! Did somebody give you some valuable information at the convention? Thank them! By reaching out, you can show you’re a valuable resource which will help cement the relationship as most people don’t followup nowadays. Questions for the Conventions Who has impressed you so far at this convention? What are you trying to get out of this convention? Now that you’ve seen what I do, who do you think I should meet? If we were to meet a year from now, and you were celebrating something in magic, what would you be celebrating? The post 10 Tips to Succeed at Magic Conventions appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

For episode 156, Brent Braun sits down with Jonah to discuss what you need to do to improve your magic. Co-founder of the Magic Firm, Brent is regarded as one of the top behind-the-scenes magic consultants, helping magicians move beyond simply thinking about tricks and methods. Brent’s interest in magic started later in life. As a single father at the age of twenty, Brent would often find himself with nothing to do once he put his son to bed at 8pm. Never being big sleeper, he soon began to find himself shuffling cards to pass the hours. When he would go out to bars and resturants, magic became a way to communicate and meet new people. At the time, Brent was working in a factory making products that he was unfamiliar with. It wasn’t until a client asked what the product was that Brent sought out the VP to help him learn what exactly the factory was making. From there, he was fast tracked to sales and magic now became a way for him to entertain his sales clients. Eventually, he recieved a break from a sales rep who invited him to perform at an event that they hired a magician for every year. A few years later, Brent wandered into his local magic shop to learn that someone made off with the money and that it would probably be closing down. For fifty dollars a week, Brent offered to take over the store. Three years later, Brent started his own store in a mall which he ran for 6-8 years. During his time running his store, Brent was also performing and working on other magic related projects. Magic Firm The purpose of the Magic Firm is to make better magic by working with performers to develop all aspects of their acts. The Magic Firm came about as a bit of a mistake, Brent explains. At the end of the day, he is a problem solver who likes to assess and reasses situations to understand why something does or doesn’t work. In the back of the magic store he owned, was a small theatre where magicians would come to perform. After the show, Brent would sit down with them to discuss their shows and why they were doing certain things. A lot of the perfomers often wouldn’t be asking these questions, so this reflection period would often help them become noticeably stronger performers. The creation of the Magic Firm allowed Brent to uitlize his ability to workshop with people, allow him to embrace his passion for business, and, most importantly, help make better magic. When magicians come to the Magic Firm, Brent won’t be writing out their scripts and putting together the entire show for them. What he does is sit down with the performers and discuss why they’re doing certain effects, what does and doesn’t work for them, and understanding who they are as a person. Brent wants to help magicians find their brand and help them put together a cohesive show that has their voice behind it — not his. Improving Your Magic It is hard to fix something when you’re at the centre of it; you cannot objectively evalute your performance which is why it helps to bring in someone else to assess your act. Whether it’s the Magic Firm or asking a director to watch one of your performances, Brent recommends bringing somebody in who will give you honest critism. Second, you need to learn how to take and apply critism. People have a tendency to shrug off notes refusing to change–until they fly Brent out and pay his fee. If you can’t afford the Magic Firm, then work, Brent says. The best way to learn is to perform and then reflect on your performance. Overtime, you will naturally begin to understand what is and isn’t working for you. While you may be against the concept of it, taking on some exposure gigs is the best way to get your name out there and get the performance hours in. Overall, you need to understand what you’re doing and why you’re doing something so that you can assess your performance. While you can read a book or watch a DVD, you won’t be able to fix the issues without knowing what exactly it is that needs to be fixed. The Magic Firm will take a look at you as an individual and tell you the exact issue so that you can directly address it. However, Brent does recommend that everyone should read Maximum Entertainmnet by Ken Weber. J&B Magic Shop and Theatre Brent was looking for a place where he could host and help block out the magicians coming to the Magic Firm. Looking at the numbers, Brent realized it didn’t necessarily make financial sense to just rent a place, so he began to look for a location to buy. While he was looking, the downtown space was being revitalized so the prospect of a magic theatre excited the mayor and the realtor he was speaking to. Unsure, Brent sat down to write out a business plan only to discover that he could finanically open a magic shop and public theatre. When the idea wouldn’t go away, Brent looked at buildings and found a few places that could work. After speaking to a friend about it, Brent launched an Indigogo campaign which was, to his surprise, fully funded by a community that wanted it to happen. Making Magic Better If we want to say magic is an art, then we should be looking for every opportunity to help elevate it in the eyes of the general public. Magic is at a highpoint and we should be taking this time to show why magic is relevant and important in people’s lives. Brent goes on to say that we shouldn’t be putting other magicians down, especially the younger magicians who are up and coming. If you see someone post something online and they flash or mess up a move, you should privately reach out to them to give them advice. Don’t shame them and tell them they’re exposing magic. If you have a grievance with another magician, call or message them. The magic community is insular enough that we can easily contact other performers; you shouldn’t be airing out magic’s dirty laundry for the general public to see. We need to be elevating each other. Brent truly believes that the more magicians and the more magic enthusiats that there are, the more shows he can personally book. By doing amazing things in one city, it will eventually impact the view of magic in another city. We are helping each other by performing better and stronger magic that leaves an impact on the audience. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Nate Staniforth What do you love about magic in 2019? What do you hate? Brent likes the resurgence of theatres and the Brent hates the online bullying and the drama. He would prefer that people reach out to each other and just discuss the issue. It’s a tight knit community, so if you need to clear up a misunderstanding, it’s simple to reach out. We don’t need to be airing out dirty laundry as It doesn’t help to build magic up. Take Home Point Jonah loved the thought of just focusing on your magic and what you want to do with it, not just accepting complacency. Brent believes finding your voice is the most important aspect. It’s what a lot of people miss. Plugs The Magic Firm Brent Braun on Facebook The post Making Better Magic with Brent Braun appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

On episode 155, Kainoa Harbottle sits down with Jonah to discuss coin magic, educating your audience on magic, and magic in the 19th century. Kainoa is known for his extensive work on coins and his ability to bring theatrical techniques into his performances to elevate magic for his audience.  Kainoa has always been a performer, often finding himself playing the eccentric villain characters in his school drama classes. His journey into magic, however, didn’t begin until eighth grade. During a free day at school, Kainoa learned a trick to attend a magic session with his friends. Alongside these friends, Kainoa started a group that worked children’s birthdays At the time, Kainoa wasn’t doing sleight of hand. It wasn’t until he met Curtis Kam that he began his journey into coin magic. He began to table-hop before Curtis’ show where he quickly learned the basics of table hopping like don’t’ perform while they’re eating and that self-working tricks weren’t enough anymore.   Why Coin Magic is Daunting Acting as a confessional of sorts, Kainoa often has magicians approach him to tell him that they don’t perform coin magic because they’re afraid. He, of course, understands that there is pressure as, unlike card magic where you can put a hot card back on the deck, you can’t put a coin back on a deck when you’re feeling heat. However, going on to quote Curtis Kam, Kainoa says that you just need to palm the coin. You’re not going to learn how to do coin magic unless you practice doing coin magic. For those who want to get into coin magic but find the process too daunting, Kainoa reminds people that it’s about learning in steps. When most people started out with card magic, they most likely didn’t learn how to keep a break. They learned key cards and self-working tricks. With coins, you need to start with palming one coin and build from there. Kainoa goes on to explain that most people don’t know the most important part of Bobo’s Modern Coin Magic: the last section with the routines. By learning routines, you can begin to understand the routines and structure of coin plots, moving your coin magic beyond just vanishing a coin. Naturalness as a Construct You don’t need to be natural to do card magic, but coin magic relies on an understanding of how your own body moves. For example, if you try to teach a person how to vanish a coin, they often can’t grasp the concept of acting like they’re doing something. If you take a coin and put it in your hand, and then you take a coin and pretend to put it in your hand, it should look the same. Kainoa goes on to explain that there is no such thing as a general naturalism as everyone moves differently. Because naturalism is a construct, you have the opportunity to construct how you move. This has led to Kainoa making two major decisions with his coin work. The first decision he made was to teach himself his major material with his left hand so that his dominant hand was free to shake the spectator’s hand. The second decision he made was gesturing as if he was finger palming coins all the time. By palming coins all the time, he was able to build this as a natural way to move. Advice for Table Hopping One of the first nights Kainoa was table hopping, he had a table that just kept talking to him. After the show, he spoke to Curtis saying that he was trying to get through the magic but people kept talking to him. Curtis told him that that’s his job; you’re there to make people happy, you’re not there to sell them magic. Kainoa goes on to explain that this realization changed the way he approaches table hopping. You have to learn how to listen to people, and you need to learn how to authentically interact with the people you’re performing for. If you’re making the magic about yourself, you’re not making them comfortable and you’re intruding into their space.  If you’re working in a restaurant, you want the people to leave and want to come back for the magician. You need to provide them with that moment of hospitality. Be playful, interact with what they’re doing, you’ll have your moment to blow them away. Audience Perception of Magic Most people come in with the perception that magic is meant for clowns and children’s birthday parties. When you perform magic for these people, you are most likely defining magic for them. Which is why if you’re doing to mess with the perception of reality, you better be performing the best magic you know. When Kainoa performs and his audience says they’ve “seen a trick before,” Kainoa takes the moment to educate his audience on magic. He wants a smart audience that he can still fool, so his patter focuses on defining magic and helping the spectator understand what is happening. He is taking the moment to build the world of magic in front of them by breaking down their concept of magic and showing them the difference between a trick, an illusion, and magic. Magic in the 19th Century Alongside being a skilled sleight-of-hand magician, Kainoa is also a Professor of English with his Ph.D. dissertation focusing on magic in Victorian England. When conducting his research in 19th-century magic, he discovered that there was a lot of material reminiscing about the time period. Several people would write pieces about missing the magical spaces of the Victorian era. Based on his research, Kainoa discovered that there were three acceptable forms of entertainment a person could see: Madame Tussaud’s waxworks, magic, and Minstrelsy. Theatre and music halls were too risque at the time period. Kainoa realized that all of these are constructs. Magic is a construct of power, waxworks is a construct of a person, and minstrelsy is a construct of race. While we don’t think about the other two, we still think of magic. Why? Why was magic the one survived? Kainoa believes it survived because you’re altering reality in front of somebody. They can see things on TV or online, but when they witness magic in real life, their perception of reality is being altered in front of them. Magic challenges the augmented reality that has taken over today. Our job as magicians is to show them there is another way to look at life. Wrap-up Endless chain Curtis Kam John Bourne What do you like about 2019 magic? What do you hate? Kainoa likes that magic is moving towards an audience-centered approach. Kainoa doesn’t like Rubik’s cube magic as too many people are doing it and it doesn’t necessarily require skill. Favourite part Jonah liked talking about coins as a plot as it may be where a lot of the discomfortable feeling comes from not having great plots. He also loved the idea that magic is the anti-technology mean to pull people into this reality. Kainoa wants you to be responsible for your magic because you are creating their definition of magic. Be the good 10% to get people to love magic. Plugs Kainoa’s Website Reel Magic Magazine Instagram The post Palm the Damn Coins with Kainoa Harbottle appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

Alan Alfredo Marchese joins Jonah for episode 154 to discuss choosing effects, creating emotion, and the Spanish School of Magic. Originally from Argentina, Alan now lives in Spain where he has earned a reputation for taking effects and turning them into powerful moments for his audience. In 1972, growing up in Buenos Aires, a 12-year-old Alan saw his friend performing Professor’s Nightmare which was the intial spark for his journey into magic. His friend introduced him to the man who would become his magic teacher. His teacher owned a magic store where Alan would help demonstrate and build tricks every day after school. Alan went off to study at University, where he proceeded to work as a Merchant Marine Officer and Professor of Physical Education. He left both these jobs behind when he started to perform magic, primarily doing kid’s birthday parties. His views on magic changed when he attended the FISM hosted in Madrid where he met and fell in love with a girl; he moved to Spain when he was 27 to be with her. After struggling to find a job in Spain, he attended a magic convention where he competed in a gala show. From there he received his first contracts and people began to recognize him as a professional. Moving to Madrid also allowed him to travel back and forth to Barcelona where he worked alongside Juan Tamariz to develop magic. Juan Tamariz’s Influence Alan credits Juan for having the biggest impact on his magic. Since he was 14, Alan has known Juan. Alongside Alan’s teacher, Juan and Aan would stay up late at a bar discussing magic until 6 am when the rest of the magicians had gone off to bed. Where he admits he’s not skilled in coming up with ideas, Alan is extremely skilled at taking concepts and building on them, finding the changes that need to be made, which is an important skill to Juan. Juan’s influence taught Alan that you need a solid foundation in your magic if you wish to perform great magic. When you analyze Juan’s teachings, you realize that he has compiled the theory of the greatest thinkers, like Vernon and Ascanio, and put them together to create a fundamental basis for his magic. Choosing Effects If you want to perform quality material, you need to read books, Alan says. Every effect he performs was pulled from a book because the newer material isn’t very strong compared to the classics. While Alan may put his own twist on the details of an effect, the underlying methods and principles remain the same. When he’s choosing effects, he tries to think like a layperson to find tricks that will make the spectator say “oh, what?”. To do this, you need to have a criteria for what makes a good trick. Alan goes on to explain that his criteria is based around the Carlyle Principle: When Vernon and friends were at the Magic Castle, they were trying to decide on which magician to see. Carlyle recommended standing at the exit and asking the audience to describe the effects they saw. If the description was simple, that was the magician they saw. If the effect cannot be explained with simple language, then Alan feels like it’s not a memorable effect. Above all else, Alan wants his spectators to remember the magic. Card Magic on the Stage You only need a regular deck of cards to perform on stage. To make card tricks work on stage, however, you need to rely on the audience at the front to signal to the audience at the back that magic is happening even if they can’t see the pips on the cards. If the performer has done enough to bring out the reactions in the crowd, the people at the back won’t remember they couldn’t see the card. The second option is, when doing table work, projecting the performance on a screen. However, Alan warns that you shouldn’t place the screen behind the performer and project the performer; the audience’s attention will be pulled away from the performance and you will lose your connection with them. Highlighting Juan as an example, Alan recommends have a screen that only projects what is on the table placed directly beside the performer. This allows the audience to keep their attention on the magician while being able to see the moves being done on the table. Adding Emotion There are a variety of emotions you can add inside a show, Alan explains. However, to bring your audience through these emotions, you need to be aware of what you want the audience to feel. This requires analyzing what you want them to feel at specific parts in the show; looking at the emotions inherent in the effects you perform; and studying emotions as a whole. If you can understand how an audience is feeling, you can make the necessary changes to improve your overall set. It is necessary to change the emotions people are feeling or your audience will get bored. This is why when your choosing your effects you should be viewing them as almost bare bones, waiting for a shell to be put over top. Spanish School of Magic The Spanish School of Magic focuses primarily on strong card effects. Alan credits Juan Tamariz for this due to his strong influence on the current generation of Spanish magicians, like Woody Aragon and Dani Daortiz. Juan took Ascanio’s and Vernon’s teachings, and used them to push magic to another level. He was considering methods, symbolism, effects, presentation and structure in a conscious way, rather than the intuitive way most professionals were following. Juan put all of this together in his Five Points of Magic. However, Alan highlights that the Spanish School of Magic is really about improving magic. Every year, Spanish magicians come together to share their methods and theories, rather than keep their creations secret. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Juan Tamariz Woody Aragon Dani Daortiz Roberto Giobi Juan Rubiales What do you love about 2019 magic? What do you hate? Alan likes that manipulation has changed over the years. Where before it was seen as juggling, modern performers have been able to move it into the magic world. Alan dislikes the current state of TV magic as the effects often being done on the show couldn’t be done in a traditional setting. Take Home Point Jonah liked the idea of adding variety to an act and in the tricks themselves to create a variety of emotions. Alan reminds magicians not to be afraid to do card tricks on stage. You don’t need big illusions to be memorable. Plugs Alan’s Penguin Live Lecture Alan will be performing at the Magic Castle June 24th-30th. The post Bringing Card Magic to the Stage with Alan Marchese appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

This episode the interviewer becomes the interviewee. Jonah sits down with Brian Miller on his podcast, One New Person, to discuss his identity as a magician, copywriting and a chance encounter with one person that had a ripple effect on his life. Brian is a magician turned speaker with the goal of helping people feel heard and valued in our disconnected world. You may remember Brian from his Discourse in Magic episode, Episode 54 – Networking for Magicians. or you may have heard about his book, Three New People, which advocates for a change in how we approach interacting with each other. One New Person is Brian’s new podcast. His intention is to highlight ordinary people who are doing meaningful work and shaping the world around them. Believing that every interaction you have and every person you meet is important, Brian has his guests discuss an interaction that had a ripple effect in their life. Jonah’s Episode Identifying as a Magician It wasn’t until recently that Jonah began to feel confident in telling people that he was a magician. Before, he would find himself telling people it was alright to laugh, almost as a defense mechanism for how absurd the concept could be to most people. However, between producing so many shows and his podcast, Jonah now feels like he has the ability to say he is a magician without feeling like an impostor. Marketing, Business & Copywriting While Jonah likes the creative side of magic, he does find himself drawn towards the advertising and marketing side of magic. He feels that if his marketing is better than his show, then his show needs to get better, and vice versa. It becomes a tug-of-war, constantly pushing him to better his understanding of marketing and to better his magic. Jonah goes on to highlight how the structure and intention of copywriting is similar to performing magic on stage. The goal of both are to communicate an idea from one person to the next in the clearest way possible. A Chance Encounter When Jonah was in elementary school, he was known as the person who did magic. When he was heading off to summer camp, he opted to leave behind his tricks, bringing only a single deck of cards from the dollar store with him; he was on his way out of magic. Or, he was, until he met Ben Train who was working in the tuck shop at the camp. Ben reignited Jonah’s interest in magic after showing him a seemingly impossible card trick. From there, Ben acted as Jonah’s magic teacher, his co-councilor at Sorcerer’s Safari, and, now, as his business partner with the Toronto Magic Company. All of this came from meeting at a summer camp with Ben showing Jonah a card trick. Brian’s Plugs Three New People One New Person Brian’s Website The post Brian Miller on One New Person appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

For episode 162, Jonah sits down with Dan White to discuss working with a team, creating a show, and performing on television. Dan has appeared on the Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon ten times, has an on running show at the Nomad, and has consulted for people like David Blaine, David Copperfield and Kanye West. When Dan was a boy, his father gave him a magic kit, sparking his interest in magic. Growing up in Philadelphia, Dan had access to a magic store where he was able to go to learn and share magic. Eventually, Dan began to work there which allowed him to repeatedly perform tricks and polish his style during his eight years at the shop. While Dan attended University full-time, he was still performing magic. During this time, Dan moved to New York to further his education and his magic career. By living in New York, Dan was able to perform gigs at nightclubs and bars. New York also gave him the opportunity to meet magicians and give him access to the real inner world of magic. Soon, Dan met David Blaine and eventually stated working with him. After working with Blaine on his show, Dan was given the chance to consult for David Copperfield which led to him working with Robert Smith, Blake Vogt, Patrick Kun, Homer Liwag and Chris Kenner. After working with Copperfield, the restaurant 11 Madison Park approached Dan wanting to create a deck of playing cards for the restaurant and a trick that they could incorporate into their dessert course. When they completed this project, they asked if Dan would be interested in performing a show at their hotel. Since then, Dan has been performing The Magician at the Nomad Hotel in New York. Working with a Team Whether he’s consulting for a show or creating his own material, Dan is often working with his fellow magicians and peers to develop ideas. Often, everything starts as a spark, a seed of an idea that comes while he and his friends are talking. When they come together to share their ideas, it gives then a chance to discuss the concepts and develop them further. Dan highlights that by working with others, you have the chance to utilize their expertise to better execute your vision. Creating a Show When Dan was crating his show for The Nomad, he knew he wanted it to be more than an open mic format or a standard show. At the beginning, it was primarily him developing a narrative that would be the through line for the show. Nailing down his narrative was the most important part as it gave the show more than just a series of tricks. Dan also knew that he would have the audience’s attention when they entered the room, so it became a process of how to give the audience the best overall experience. In terms of effects, Dan often asks what would be cool or interesting to do on stage that would fit into the narrative. While he isn’t switching in and out new effects constantly, he is ways creating new effects as he sees no reason not to be. Performing for Fallon Jimmy Fallon discovered Dan after seeing the second half of Dan’s first ever show at the Nomad. Enjoying what he saw, Jimmy invited Dan onto the show to perform. There’s a different between performing on television and performing on The Tonight Show, Dan explains. On The Tonight Show, Dan is trying to cater to Jimmy’s brand while also performing effects that interest him and allow the most amount of people to participate. Dan also believes that a television show appearance shouldn’t be a one and done moment; the effect you decide to do should have multiple hits and moments that get the spectators involved in the magic rather than as passive observers. Built in Experiences Dan wants to be like a musician but with magic. Like music, he wants magic to consistently deliver an impact moment that can be experienced over and over again by lay people. He wants people to watch a trick and get chills from the presentation. You can of course deliver an experience through magic by focusing on building peaks and valleys into the show. Give your audience the ups and downs they want. Have the gruesome and sexy moments mixed into the hard hitting and calm moments. Dan points to Copperfield as an example of someone who truly understands how to take the audience on an experience. To help build this experience, Dan highlights that you need to connect with your audience on a real person level. You can see different results when you interact with people in certain ways. You first need to recognize there is an antagonistic side to a magic show, and that you need to defuse that atmosphere to help bring up the energy to a place where the audience can relax and be entertained by the performance. Wrap-Up What do you like about 2018/2019 magic? What do you hate? There is nothing major that Dan hates in the current magic period as even when he is presented with something he doesn’t like or disagrees with, he still appreciates that it has him thinking and that it is clearly pushing a boundary. If anything, the only thing he doesn’t like is people still releasing DVDs instead of downloads, and how people do interviews before explanations for their tricks. What Dan likes about the current state of magic is the fact that we’re living in a new period of magic that has seen Instagram magicians rise. It is a different direction for magic, and he is interested to see how it plays out. Take Home Point Jonah liked the idea regarding sharing information because you’re passionate about magic and want the community to grow; we should be focsing on making connections, not being competitive. Dan believes the most important part is the idea of peaks and valleys in your act. You need to push that idea hard because you need to get the emotions to bring people into your show. Endless Chain B. Smith Blake Vogt Plugs Instagram Twitter The Magician Lit The post Teamwork, Fallon, and the Audience with Dan White appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

Jonah is joined by Manuel Llaser for episode 151 to discuss emotion in magic, learning from teachers, and analyzing your approach to magic. Manuel is an Argentinian magician who developed his deep appreciation for magic under the guidance of Juan Tamariz. Manuel comes from a family of artists. His uncle, Alan Marchese, started him on the path of magic when he was five years old. Under his mentor, Manuel developed a deep love for the craft. In 1992, Manuel met Juan Tamariz and they immediately connected. In 1998, Juan invited Manuel to come work with him. Leaving law school, Manuel went to help Juan with writing and archiving his ideas. Teachers and Mentors With his background in Eastern philosophy, Manuel has always understood that to truly learn and develop in a craft, you need to learn from a teacher or guru. In the East, knowledge being passed from the teacher to the student is a normal tradition. Not only does it help one improve their skills, but it helps the student develop humility, listening and analytical skills, and a sense of what they actually want to accomplish within their chosen craft. A teacher, Manuel emphasizes, is meant to guide you through the basic principles and how to apply them. Nowadays, there is a tendency of people telling you to branch out and follow your own path to understand the craft. While it is important to stay true to you, Manuel says, you need to be aware of the fundamentals before you can actually go deeper into the world of magic. By learning the theories under his mentors, he was able to decide which areas were and weren’t for him, and why he was making these decisions. Manuel emphasizes how important it is to pay respect to the people in the past and to appreciate the magicians who are teaching you. By simply learning the latest method for an effect, you are losing out on the deeper theory behind why and how that effect was created. Performing Around the World During his time performing in different countries, Manuel has been able to develop his approach to communicating through magic. In Spain, Manuel had the best experience as people had been regularly exposed to magic and had an understanding of what magic can be. Similarly, Manuel enjoyed performing in India as they were like children experiencing magic. There were times where he was performing for thousands of people at one time. Contrasting this experience was his time in Malaysia. There was no community of magicians there and the public had very limited knowledge of magic – Criss Angel, Copperfield and Derren Brown was generally the extent of their exposure. Manuel was also dealing with a language barrier; he suddenly had to rework his approach and the magic he was actually performing. He ended up talking less, fully scripting out his routine rather than improvising, and presenting more visual effects. During his time in Russia, Manuel worked with a translator which resulted in his performance completely being lost. He now had to consider the effects he was performing and how he could take advantage of having a translator. He had to learn to adapt and move outside of his comfort zone to be able to perform strong magic for the audience. From his travels has come Manuel’s ability to adapt his magic for a small audience who has a minimal understanding of magic to an audience of thousands who don’t share his language. Spanish vs North American Magic The Spanish school was born out of a need for change, Manuel explains. There were seven magicians who were on a mission to move magic forward because it had stagnated after Vernon’s death. The younger generation saw it as their responsibility to move magic forward so it can have the shock and impact they desired. They took the torch and went deeper into the study of magic by deeply analyzing the theories behind magic and practice; they looked at the symbolism and the structure; they examined the symbolism behind magic and how magic interacted with cinema and theatre. The Spanish school is primarily an approach to how to study magic from a deeper, critical perspective. Manuel goes on to highlight that North America has its own schools that take a similar approach, pointing primarily to Vernon and Marlo and how they developed their own different approaches to magic. Manuel goes on to explain that to actually follow a school, you need to look at the references that the school is based on. By studying the cultural moments and theories from these older schools, you can adapt these concepts to a newer generation, pushing magic further. Emotional Effects Emotion is what hooks people to a moment. When we reflect on a memory, we tend to have an emotional reaction. Magic, Manuel explains, is a concert of emotions. By being conscious of what your audience is feeling during any given moment in your performance, you can increase the impact of your overall effect. You have to find a way to create emotion in your audience through the language of magic. Juan Tamariz has forced Manuel to think about the effect now when approaching magic. The method doesn’t matter as much as the effect, as the effect is where the sense of magic comes from. If you become married to a method, you are potentially preventing yourself from creating a stronger effect for the audience. Manuel recommends training your mind to be attracted to the effect rather than the method. Tamariz Treatment While he spent many years studying under Tamariz and is a close friend, Manuel explains that he was not a special chosen one, Tamariz was just very kind to associate with him. All of Tamariz’s teachings are available in print; you can experience and understand his teachings through text because his spirit is behind every book. When you show Tamariz an effect, you have to open your mind to new possibilities to improve the overall effect. Tamariz will ask you about the conditions, potentially forcing you to detach yourself from the method to find a better way to complete the effect. Criticism It is important to learn how to take criticism and to have arguments about why you’re doing what you’re doing. When you are given criticism, you need to analyze what is being said and how it applies to you. Is the mistake you’re making an absolute mistake like everyone can see the move? Then you’re doing it wrong. Are you being critiqued on your approach to the effect? Then it’s relative criticism that you may or may not find use in. You have to be mature enough to understand where the criticism is coming from. In some cases, people will try to place their preferences on you. Wrap-Up Memorable Moment Jonah resonated with the idea of being detached from the method, and the concept that magic is a concert of emotion. Manuel liked the overall idea of living magic as a passion. You have to put your passion into it and see through the point of view of your predecessors. And, the most important part, be happy when you perform. What do you love about 2019 magic? What do you hate about 2019 magic? Manuel likes the newest style of magic being on people’s phones. Through one minute clips, people are able to create a sense of magic through another person’s phone. It is getting magic everywhere and opening it up to a wider audience. People are consuming magic content and this is a positive for the future. Manuel doesn’t like how easy it is to obtain information. All you need to do now is type what you want into YouTube and learn the moves. There is no depth to the magic and people aren’t necessarily appreciating where the effect came from. Manuel believes you need to grow and evolve with the effect, not simply learn it. Endless Chain Juan Tamariz Michel Clavello Alan Marchese Plugs Instagram YouTube Website Penguin Lecture References The Magic of Ascanio – the Structural Conception of Magic The Magic Way The Five Points in Magic Mnemonica Verbal Magic The post Being Conscious About Your Magic with Manuel Llaser appeared first on Discourse in Magic.