
Discourse in Magic
Jonah Babins from Discourse in Magic tackles magic’s hardest issues, theories, philosophies, discussion, and more to help you explore. He jumps into all sorts of magic, and resources, and most importantly actionable tips to help better the art and become a killer performer!
Latest episodes

Sep 12, 2019 • 56min
Striking a Balance with Pit Hartling
Jonah is joined by Pit Hartling this week to explore creating magic, counting tricks, and making presentation decisions. Pit is a German magician who brings his own take to sleight of hand card magic.
At the age of ten, there were a series of small moments that built his passion for magic. He discovered a wooden magic set in his aunt’s basement; he saw the German magician, Marvelli, perform a series of classics that sparked Pit’s interest; and he entered his first magic shop in Hamburg where he purchased his first magic props. From there, his passion continued to grow in magic, and he found himself performing tricks for his schoolyard friends.
By University, Pit was frequently performing to the point it wasn’t a question of if he was going to become a magician, but if he was going to finish his degree. He didn’t, but he hasn’t looked back on that decision.
Creating Magic
Pit has two approaches to creating magic.
The first is determining what plot or phenomenon he wants to demonstrate to his audience. For example, he has an effect that is influenced by Douglas Adams’ concept of the Infinite Probability Drive. Pit then selected an effect that would help him clearly demonstrate the concept in a clear and amusing way to the audience.
The second is finding a method you want to use and fitting a plot to it. Referring to Tamariz, Pit explains how that without a deceptive method at the core of your performance, you cannot create magic. You can entertain the audience, but you won’t be fooling them. By starting with a deceptive method and building the effect around it, you have a better chance to create impactful, enjoyable magic.
Making Claims
Pit doesn’t want his audience to leave with any false beliefs or understandings about the world while also leaving with a sense of impossibility about what they witnessed. To avoid having his audience believing falsehoods, Pit believes it comes down to the performer’s tone. To create an emotionally true sense of magic while keeping it intellectually fake, the performer needs to discover a tone and delivery that works for them.
Additionally, you can add elements that play up the plot while showing the audience that it’s not real. Props and additional plot structures give the audience a hook to attribute the magic to while also allowing them to recognize that “oh, okay, he’s not a mind reader.” Pit points out though that if the method and performance is strong enough, you still have a strong effect on your hands.
Inviting Challenges
By getting spectators to challenge you to do certain things you’ve prepared for, you can make it seem like you’re omnipotent and could have responded to any challenge they threw at you, essentially making your magic stronger.
Pit explains that challenges don’t arise randomly. They are usually triggered by something you have done or setup. There are points in magic where an inherent conflict is setup and the spectators want these conflicts to be resolved. If you figure out where these challenges are and how you can respond or use them to your advantage, you can bait them into challenge you and get the bigger payoff; the spectators will believe they set the conditions for you.
You can read Pit’s article on the subject in the free essay collection Magic In Mind.
Working with Magicians
For the past 25 years, Pit has been working in a group of ten magicians called the Flicking Fingers. He explains that the show is more than the sum of its parts and relies on the synergy of the performers. The group has been able to get into theatres that, as solo performers, they would have never had the opportunity to perform at.
Pit has also been part of a show called Magic Monday for the past 19 years. The show focuses on four clearly defined characters who have interactions throughout the show. The added advantage of working with a group is that you can have people working backstage to pull off methods while the performer is on stage.
Offstage, Pit notes the advantages of working with other magicians. By simply talking through ideas with your peers, you can often spark ideas or understand how to improve your material.
Wrap-Up
What do you like about current magic? What do you hate?
Pit enjoys that the magic scene is thriving; there are several venues opening in Germany for closeup magic shows.
Pit, saying it’s more a pet peeve than anything, doesn’t like little things in magic books where it says “Now the spectator may shuffle the cards.” There’s better ways to phrase that instruction in his opinion.
Endless Chain
Helge Thun
Jorg Alexander
Gaston
Take Home Point
Pit reminds the audience to think from the spectator’s perspective. If you can understand what a spectator will think or feel at a particular point in a trick, you will be a much better magician.
Plugs
Card Fictions
In Order to Amaze
Pit’s Website
Pit’s Instagram
The post Striking a Balance with Pit Hartling appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

Sep 5, 2019 • 1h 26min
Comedy Magic Secrets with Amazing Johnathan
This week the Amazing Johnathan joins Jonah to talk about comedy, magic and earning your chops. Johnathan is a worldrenowed comedy magician known for his shocking humour and twisted magic tricks.
After wandering into a magic store in his hometown, Johnathan’s interest in magic began. Not being the most popular kid at his school, magic helped him stand out among his peers. It would be his spoon bending skills that gave him clout among his peers and teachers, with many of them believing he was in fact bending them for real. However, the power he had was lost during his senior year talent show when all six of the tricks he performed went horribly wrong – with one of them resulting in the death of a dove.
After the show, he swore he would never perform a serious magic trick again.
He was forced back into magic when he was stuck in San Francisco and needed money. It was on the streets that he met the likes of Harry Anderson and A. Whitney Brown. Through his time as a street performer, Johnathan discovered the style that worked best for him: shock humour.
Comedy & Magic
Johnathan is known for his ability to cohesively blend comedy and magic together to the point that magic almost becomes the butt of the joke. It’s not a matter of that he can’t do magic, it’s a matter of he can’t do magic consistently. When he started writing comedy, he found out he had an easier time writing edgy comedy bits than having his magic work consistently.
When it comes to writing jokes, Johnathan has a few pieces of advice for the listeners. But, his main word of advice is to just write. Study joke structures and hang around funny people to understand what makes something funny, but without actually sitting down and writing, you’ll never get better. Johnathan goes on to recommend looking and listening for triggers in your life to find material you can use.
While he recommends sitting down and fleshing out a character to have a better grasp on what presentations and effects will work for you, Johnathan never really did this himself. Instead, he relied on the reviews to describe who he was and then lent into them. The more he began to understand who his character was, the less of a crap-shoot adding new material to his set became.
Stealing & Borrowing Material
When you’re starting out, Johnathan explains, it’s okay to use published material until your comfortable. It was published for you to use. But, that being said, you better come up with something original if you want the respect of your peers and to stand out in the audience’s minds. What you can’t do is take people’s custom lines and use them as your own. Those lines aren’t published for a reason.
In terms of people using his material, Johnathan has had people steal everything from single bits in his act to performing his entire show. While people claim it’s an homage or paying tribute, Johnathan sees it simply as people who have no intention of paying to use his work. He and his wife, Anastasia Synn, will go after these people who refuse to pay and hold them accountable for stealing his material.
Death, Fandom & Documentaries
In 2014 Johnathan revealed he had a year to live. His life was put on hold and, even though he wanted to write and perform, the death sentence became a nuisance. Eventually, after his third year of waiting to die, he said fuck it and went on a farewell tour for his fans; he wanted to give the generations of people who only saw him on TV an opportunity to see him live. Those who showed up were hardcore fans who, after the show, would come up to buy merch, take photos, and let him know just how he touched their lives.
It was bittersweet.
He was unable to give them the high energy shows he is known for, but being able to go back to work one last time was great. Reluctantly though, Johnathan had to stop his tour and return to retirement.
Or as close to retirement as one can get when you have two documentaries, with one of the in theatres, out right now. Years ago, Johnathan had started a documentary only to be sidetracked by his video podcast, Burn Unit. When he received his death sentence, Johnathan decided he wanted to do a documentary correctly this time. When he was approached by Benjamin Berman about filming a documentary, Johnathan agreed. The second documentary team approached to film the Always Amazing documentary, Johnathan also agreed due to their success with previous docs; he had yet to see anything from Ben and wanted to make sure someone was going to release a documentary.
At the end of it all, Johnathan just wants his fans to know who he is and recognize that he’s been able to succeed despite everything.
Wrapup
What do you like about current magic? What do you hate?
Johnathan likes the access the internet has given to magicians to find and learn tricks. However, he also hates the access that the internet has given people.
Endless Chain
Steve Valentine
Mike Hammer
Mac King
Take Home Point
Johnathan reminds the listeners to never resort to cheap skill.
Plugs
Always Amazing Documentary
The Amazing Johnathan Documentary
Johnathan’s Website – Watch Johnathan’s website for updates on his autobiography and joke book
Johnathan’s Instagram
Johnathan’s Penguin Lecture – to be released
The Amazing Johnathan Burn Unit Podcast
The post Comedy Magic Secrets with Amazing Johnathan appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

Aug 29, 2019 • 1h 2min
Bringing Closeup Card Magic to the Stage with Jimmy Ichihana
Jonah sits down with Jimmy Ichihana this week to discuss community, embracing your interests, and bringing card magic to the stage. Jimmy is a sleight of hand performer from Florida who has performed at the Magic Castle and has appeared twice on Fool Us.
While Jimmy grew up in New York, his love for magic began in California where his uncle showed him a card trick that fooled him badly and cemented his desire to learn magic. Jimmy went on to attend Tannen’s Magic Camp where he had the opportunity to see insane magic that inspired him to continue learning and push further into magic.
It was during his time working at a summer camp in Hancock, NY that Jimmy’s love for closeup card magic took hold. He spent two summers being the resident card magic instructor which ingrained his passion. Soon after he discovered the Paul Harris book, had the opportunity to see some amazing lectures, and witnessed Tamariz performing in Kitchener, Ontario.
Fool Us
When Jimmy first went on Fool Us, he submitted a routine that he had fallen in love with. It was a fun take on a gambling routine that didn’t require knowledge of gambling. However, as his friend pointed out when he was accepted to the show, he didn’t have any patter to go with the effect. Thankfully, Jimmy had the support of the Orlando magic community, his friends, and family to help him develop patter for the routine. It was through them that Jimmy realized he could combine his love of math with the routine.
The next time Jimmy appeared on Fool Us, he performed his version of Henry Evans’ trick, Ten Exact Cuts. The effect had actually been a suggestion from his friend who realized it fit into the types of tricks Jimmy likes to perform. However, Jimmy recognized he would need to make the trick his own and spent a longtime developing it so it didn’t feel like a copy of Evans’ trick.
As performing close up tricks on a stage that large, he wasn’t worried. By bringing people up to join him on stage, and by virtue of people in the audience knowing it was for a show, he was able to play to the spectators on the stage with him.
Bringing Card Magic to the Stage
For awhile now, Jimmy has been taking his close up material and moving it to the stage. During this journey, he has had to change the way he approaches not only the presentation but also the methods he uses. Moves and displays that only work on the table now need to be scrapped in favor of methods and presentations that allow Jimmy to play to fifty plus people. This shift has completely changed his mindset when approaching magic, and he has had to expand his magic toolbox.
When searching for material to bring to the stage, jimmy recommends figuring out which effect you want to transmit to the audience first. Then, everything your saying and doing should build towards that effect. The best way to figure out what needs to stay and what should be scrapped is filming and watching back the performance; if you are bored at any point, the audience is too.
Madrid
Alongside his wife, Jimmy briefly moved to Madrid to learn in the Auxiliares program – a program where the Spanish government gives native English Speakers student visas. Being on a student visa and unable to work more than twenty hours a week, Jimmy was able to immerse himself in the magic scene and experience a whole different culture.
Dedicated closeup theaters, libraries stocked with magic books, magic shops, and club meetings. Madrid was akin to a constant magic convention. Whether he wanted to see, do or jam magic, there was always somewhere he could go. Additionally, for the general public in Spain, going to see a magic was similar to going to see a movie or concert with friends.
Wrap Up
What do you like about magic in 2019? What do you dislike?
Jimmy likes how welcoming the magic community is. No matter where he is, he knows he can find people he can bond with over some aspect of magic.
Endless Chain
Kostya Kimlat
Steve Bedwell
Terry Ward
Bev Bergeron
Bob and Val Swadling
Bryan Miles
Take Home Point
Jonah enjoyed hearing about the moments that shaped Jimmy’s transition to the stage and his solutions for avoiding aspects of magic people generally hate.
Jimmy reminded the audience that you don’t have to let other people define whether or not you’re doing too much card magic.
Plugs
Jimmy’s Website
See Magic Live
Jimmy’s Instagram
The post Bringing Closeup Card Magic to the Stage with Jimmy Ichihana appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

Aug 22, 2019 • 1h
Esther’s Follies’ Inner Secrets with Ray Anderson
This week, Jonah sits down with Ray Anderson to discuss putting on a show, developing a character, and keeping your material fresh. Ray has been a featured performer with the long-running variety show, Esther’s Follies, for 20+ years. By mixing parody with grand stage illusions in an intimate setting, Ray brings a unique approach to magic.
Ray’s journey into magic began like most; he received a magic kit for Christmas when he was in the third grade. Growing up, his access to magic was primarily the books in his local library as, growing up where he was in Texas, there weren’t a lot of magicians around to learn from. The idea that he could be a professional magician didn’t even cross his mind until he saw Mark Wilson performing on television.
From an early age, he knew that he wanted to be a magician. There was no fallback plan or even the idea that he could fail. Throughout his early years, Ray performed closeup magic in restaurants and stand up material for kids shows. Eventually, he moved into the corporate world which gave him the chance to perform the grand stage illusions he wanted to.
Esther’s Follies
Ray came across Esther’s Follies while pursuing his BFA in Theatre at the University of Texas. His friend, Mario Lorenz, was the variety performer in Esther’s, and invited Ray out to come see the show. Immediately, Ray knew he wanted to be apart of the show and Mario invited him to join.
So what exactly is Esther’s Follies?
Esther’s is a variety show that has been running in Austin, Texas for the past 40 years. Each week, the show features political satire, comedy sketches, magic and musical numbers put on by talented musicians, actors, dancers and writers. Ray explains that magic is the spine of the show and incorporates the other performers into it to create a more cohesive experience for the audience.
Putting on a Show
Putting on a show like Esther’s requires a team of dedicated individuals. Every Sunday, the team sits down to pitch ideas, discuss current events, and start the bare bones structure of that week’s show. On Monday, a group of five core writers sit down to decide which ideas are worth pursuing and begin to write the show. Tuesday they rehearse and choreograph the show. Wednesday they polish everything off. Thursday, just before the show, they rehearse. Friday, they take what they learned from the previous show and add another layer of polish.
And then they do it all over again.
But the effort is worth it as the show is often sold out and constantly sees returning audience members. Esther’s also does very little if any advertising, relying on word of mouth to continue forward. It is a happening place in Austin, and if you know about it, you know about it.
Keeping it Fresh
How do you keep a show running for 40 years? According to Ray, it’s about keeping up to date with and noticing the trends. Thankfully, the very nature of Esther’s material makes it easy for them to adapt to what will entertain their audience. However, Ray explains that the magic still needs to be on point and developing a strong magic act can take time, but you have to be willing to let go of old tricks.
In terms of content, Ray explains that you need to be willing to let go of old jokes and material that don’t get the same reactions they use to. While you may get a chuckle still with a joke you’ve been telling for years, you could probably write stronger, current material.
Wrap-Up
What do you like about current magic? What do you dislike?
Ray likes that people, especially the younger generation, are doing and trying more stand up type magic.
In terms of what he dislikes, Ray feels that magic could still be little more open to change and welcoming in different views.
Endless Chain
Nick Lewin
Take Home Point
Jonah loves the amount of effort that goes into keeping the show fresh.
Ray explains that even if something isn’t polished and still near the beginning stages, you should still put it out to the audience. It can be a huge benefit for the development of the trick.
Plugs
Esther’s Follies
The post Esther’s Follies’ Inner Secrets with Ray Anderson appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

Aug 15, 2019 • 14min
Magician Appetizer #5: Listener Q&A
You had questions, Jonah has answers!
Recently, Jonah asked listeners via social media and the mailing list to send in any questions they have regarding magic to be answered on this week’s episode.
If you have a different take on the questions or if you didn’t get a chance to ask, please reach out to Jonah as he’d love to hear from you!
Thank you to everyone who sent in questions!
The post Magician Appetizer #5: Listener Q&A appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

Aug 8, 2019 • 1h 9min
Never Stop Exploring with Mario the Maker Magician
Jonah is joined by Mario the Maker Magician this week to discuss bringing value to your show, learning to be a flexible performer, and instilling passion into your magic. Mario is a children’s show performer who uses D.I.Y robots, handmade props and a slapstick performance style to show that magic can be found in anything.
At seventeen, Mario left him with his dog Cloudkicker to hitchhike across the country as a street performing magician. His decision was inspired by an encounter with a street performer who told him that this was how he lived, and that idea of a wanderer’s life appealed to him. During his travels, Mario happened across a magic store an was instantly hooked. He spent the days watching people perform and learning from the likes of Rick Merrill and Gene Anderson. Soon, he was performing in a Chinese restaurant alongside a friend he made at the store.
At twenty-three, Mario returned home, still trying to figure out who he was and what he was meant to do in life. While his friends had all graduated college, he was in his parent’s house with a pack of cards and sponge-balls. After a dream one night, Mario realized that he shouldn’t be avoiding children’s shows. Doing magic for adults didn’t let him embrace the person he was like children shows would.
Bringing in Your Interests
If you ever watch Mario perform, you will see that he strays away from the traditional cards and rings and sponge-balls. Instead, you will see a myriad of props and robots that perform the magic alongside him. His creations stem from his love for old magic automatons, and he found a way to mix this with his love of magic.
Mario recommends to performers that they should fnd what they’re truly passionate about and integrate that with your magic for a more genuine experience. Whether it’s Dungeons and Dragons or robots or film, you can find a way to bring the passion for that into your performance for a more authentic feel. People want to know who you are and they want to be able to feel the love you have for what you’re doing on stage. You have to be passionate and willing to share that passion with the audience.
Learning & Teaching
Mario explains that throughout his life people taught him to continue learning and to seek out the information you’ll need, and he wants to pass this on to the future generations. When he performs for kids, he will gladly show them how his rabbit or his case works in the hopes of inspiring them and helping them learn. Mario goes as far as using software designed for kids and points them to the resources if they’re interested:
Tinkercad
Makerspace
3D Hub
Arduino
He wants to encourage kids to learn and experiment; if they understand how something works, they can understand how to fix it and make improvements.
Mario applies the same ideas to helping newcomers in magic. He believes that there shouldn’t be a divide in the old and new generations of magicians; they should be working together to further magic by applying the lessons of the past with the new take on magic that the future magicians have to offer.
Life on the Road
When you leave your hometown, nobody cares about you. You have to make a name for yourself and that requires a lot of work. Mario reached out to a couple hundred theaters to see if they would have him on, sending each on a personalized email. Some replied back, and even fewer agreed to bring him in. Another year, Mario and his family decided they would save the money and rent out a theater space, sending targeted ads and reaching out to schools. Every year, Mario explains, bring something new to learn and overcome.
Travelling in itself is difficult. He, alongside his family, travels across the country, going from gig to gig. After every performance, his kids want to do something while Mario is often spent from the shows. While it may be exhausting, Mario explains that it’s about finding a balance between work and family life.
Creating Value in Your Show
One of the biggest things for Mario is being flexible in you performance. While he believes heavily in scripting, he recognizes that you shouldn’t be held to your set list. Allowing the audience and environment to influence your act will allow for a more impactful show; you can better connect with your audience if you’re in the moment. Mario recognizes that it’s not about him, but the audience he is performing for and how they feel after the show is over.
If you really want to improve your show, you should be seeking the advice of people you trust who want to help you tell your stories. Don’t be afraid to take criticism and apply it to your show – it is the only way you can truly grow in your performance. Furthermore, Mario recommends actively trying out new things. Not everything will work, but it will eventually lead you to effects that do work.
Wrap-Up
What do you like about 2019 magic? What do you hate?
Mario likes the way magic is evolving. Places like YouTube have allowed people of all levels in magic to have better access to content. He points to people like Xavior Spade who’s online presence has had a major impact on magicians from around the world.
Mario doesn’t like the dwindling numbers of magic clubs. While he recognizes the world is moving to a more online place, he enjoys the personal feeling that magic clubs and conventions bring.
Endless Chain
Vinny DePonto
Take Home Point
Mario wants the listeners to remember that we cannot do great things, only small things with great love. When we’re on stage, we have a small job to do, that being to entertain the audience. If that job is done with a real authentic and great love, you have the chance to change a life.
Last Thoughts
Mario wants to draw attention to the juggler, Chris Ruggerio, who told a story of how he once looked out on the audience before his show and thanked each and everyone of the individually for attending his show. It was the only show that year that Chris received a standing ovation for. To Mario, that means something. That appreciation you extend to your audience will show through your performance because it is them that are allowing you to pursue the thing you love.
Plugs
Mario’s Instagram
Mario’s Facebook
Mario’s Website
The post Never Stop Exploring with Mario the Maker Magician appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

Aug 1, 2019 • 1h 26min
Reinventing Your Magic with Stuart MacDonald
This week, Jonah sits down with Stuart MacDonald to discuss storytelling, effective methods for practicing, and what to consider when changing your act. In 2017, Stuart made history at the IBM-SAM Combined Convention where he claimed all 5 top awards with his unique performance.
If you haven’t seen the performance, we highly recommend watching it before listening to the episode:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=lnObtoan-0g
Stuart’s love of magic started in grade three when he received a magic kit. As he grew up in Michigan, he eventually learned that he was only 75 miles from the Magic Capital of the World, Colon, Michigan, where the Abbott’s Convention is held. It was here that Stuart learned magicians came together to share their ideas and love for magic.
It wouldst’ be until college that Stuart started going full time. Each time a performer would come to his school, Stuart would interview them to learn how they were touring. Through these interviews, Stuart was inspired to go full time and sent out brochures to the booking group MACA. They signed him on for five years, but it quickly turned into a fifteen year contract.
At the end of his initial magic career, he and his wife had grown dead tired of driving around. They had grown so tired of it, they decided to build a haunted house which accidentally became the largest haunted house in Michigan. This project took them out of magic completely, causing them to vanish from the a scene they were fairly hot in during the 90s.
Stuart proceeded to work a number of jobs over the years, primarily producing and working in advertising. When he eventually was just selling ads, he realized how depressed he had become and worked backwards to where he was most happiest: performing magic. Knowing that if he wanted to make a splash, he would need to go the FISM route once more.
How Competitions Changed
Stuart had competed on the FISM circuit before when he entered into the 1985 competition in Madrid. However, his understanding of the competition circuit was immediately shattered when he discovered that there had been in a steep rise in the level of skill and talent being showcased. His act flopped.
However, he had expected this to happen; his competitors had spent years on their acts and he had only put in six months. Competing gave him an idea of where he stood in relation to them though. After the competition he met with Gene Anderson who told him that the mirror was simply a concept. He wanted it to be a story.
Bringing in a new take on his act with the advice of Gene, Stuart swept the competition. He was flabbergasted that one simple change to his act could have a whole new impact on the audience. Since then, he has constantly been improving and reinvent the routine.
Intertwining Story with Magic
When Stuart was changing his act, he realized that he needed to complete change his understanding of magic. By bringing in his background in theater and script writing, Stuart was able to take a more story driven approach to his magic.
Stuart explains that he views each of the individual props in his routine as suitcases. He is constantly asking questions about the objects which allow him to branch down new avenues with his routine. These questions has brought his act to such a defined point that one change has the potential to change every other aspect of the overall routine.
To actually develop storytelling skills, Stuart recommends learning how to write scripts and follow proper story structure. You need to understand how to write conflict and how to justify the choices you’re making in your magic.
You also can’t be afraid to “kill your darlings.” Being able to edit out parts and recognize where aspects of the routine need to be changed is a large part in developing a stronger routine.
Getting Feedback
Stuart is constantly putting his work into the world for feedback. There have been a number of people who have had input into the routine and have driven him towards improving his act. However, the person who set him on the right track was Tobin Ost, a Tony nominated production designer, who sat down with Stuart and questioned every little aspect of the act. These questions were what set him on the path he is currently taking with his routine.
One innovative method Stuart uses to receive feedback is Facebook Live; he tells people when he’ll be going live and proceeds to perform for whoever has tuned in, requesting advice from his viewers.
However, it ca be difficult to get feedback. Most people don’t want to hurt or embarrass you, so Stuart recommends the changing the question you ask to: What bothered you? People are more inclined to tell you what aspects of the routine they felt stood out and could use work rather than the usual “it was all good.”
Practice, Practice, Practice
After winning the Combined Competition, Lance Burton told Stuart “Good luck at FISM. All you have to do is perform it in front o people on thousand times.” But, Stuart didn’t have a thousand times to perform it in front of people between then and the time of FISM. So, he decided to rehearse it 1000 times and make 1000 changes.
To keep track of his 1000 rehearsals, Stuart had a jar of 1000 pennies. Each time he rehearsed, he would move one penny from the jar to a similar jar. He could see the jar filling up; he could hear a penny going in; he could feel the weight of the jar. It gave him a motivation to keep pushing for the 1000 rehearsal goal.
Wrap-Up
Endless Chain
Voronin
Take Home Point
Jonah liked the idea of constantly asking “What if?” and going deeper when considering the choices you’re making in your act.
Stuart reminds the listeners to continually improve.
Plugs
The Road to FISM
Stuart’s Website
Stuart’s YouTube
Stuart’s Facebook
The post Reinventing Your Magic with Stuart MacDonald appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

Jul 25, 2019 • 2h 13min
Finding Your Voice with Jamy Ian Swiss
Jonah is joined by Jamy Ian Swiss this week to discuss persona, creativity and the importance of learning the classics. Alongside being a dedicated, lifelong student of magic, Jamy is a prolific writer, sleight of hand artist, and magic historian.
Growing up as a shy, introverted child, Jamy was often introduced to new hobbies by his parents in an attempt to bring him out of his shell. His first introduction to magic came at the age of seven when his father purchased a colour vision box from Tannen’s and performed it for Jamy at dinner. From that moment, Jamy’s passion for magic began and he quickly became a lifelong student dedicated to mastering the art.
At first, Jamy’s father would go to Tannen’s to purchase magic every time Jamy mastered a trick. When he was 11, Jamy started attending the store himself to watch and learn from the magicians who attended the store. Louis Tannen, Presto, Al Koran, all became important mentors in Jamy’s initial years of learning magic, and they continue to influence him.
Magic, however, was just a passion. A hobby. He didn’t want to be a kid’s performer like his friends because he dislikes performing for kids. Additionally, while he had grown up recognizing the importance of the arts, he had been instilled with the bias that no sane person would consider pursuing an artistic career. Magic simply remained a hobby for him while he pursued a more traditional career. Jamy would proceed to lock himself in a room for a year to practice before emerging a year later, booking two corporate gigs, and never looking back.
Mentors
Jamy recognizes that he had the privilege of being surrounded by great mentors throughout his career in magic. Now, as his mentors slowly leave him, Jamy recognizes more than ever the impact his mentors had on his life. In turn, he has tried to pay it forward to help the newer generation.
When looking for a mentor, it’s not enough to just find someone with more experience than you.
Not only should they be more intelligent and skilled than you, they need to jive with your magic interests without being afraid to give you honest critiques; you shouldn’t be taking advice from somebody who is going to impose their thoughts on you. However, you shouldn’t try to learn in a vacuum which is why it’s important to surround yourself with people who scare the living hell out of you.
Confronting Discomfort
Magic, at its core, is a disconcerting experience. A cognitive dissonance for the spectator is created as their understanding of the world is challenged which can result in an uncomfortable situation for the audience and the magician. However, rather than avoid this feeling, Jamy believes magicians should embrace it.
Jamy isn’t interested in upholding the status quo; he’s interested in experiences and art that provoke thought and feeling. He doesn’t seek to please or be pleased with his art because, at the end of the day, if you’re trying to please everyone, no one will ever be passionate about what you’re doing.
If you are setting out to create “childlike wonder” in adults, you’re taking the wrong approach to magic. Children believe anything is possible which is why it isn’t fun doing magic for younger people. If your audience can’t tell the difference between fantasy and reality, what impact does magic have? Referencing Max Maven, Jamy explains that this is why magic has been rendered trivial as the performer is making fun of magic rather than embracing the provocative nature of the art.
Learning the Classics
Just because it’s new, doesn’t mean it’s good, Jamy explains.
The classics are classics for a reason. If you want to gain a fundamental understanding of magic, he recommends learning the classics like Vernon’s cups and balls. It is only after you have a thorough understanding of the classic routines that you should consider branching out to your own unique takes on magic. When you do decide to branch out, Jamy believes that you should research every iteration of an effect you can find to understand the work that has gone into the effects before you. With Dennis Behr’s Conjuring Archive, researching effects is easier than ever.
Jamy notes that there is an issue with the onslaught of products that are released everyday. Primarily, products that have been developed by magic newcomers who believe that they’ve either created a new miracle or are releasing an older effect under the impression that they are the first to discover it. Often, these effects aren’t very good or somebody has developed it before, demonstrating that the person didn’t conduct their research before releasing the product. Jamy explains that good magic is hard to find, let alone create, and that the overwhelming amount of material on the market is difficult for newcomers to comprehend.
The Importance of a Message
Don Allen. Eugene Burger. Penn & Teller.
All of their effects were informed by their personalities and the messages they wanted to convey to their audience. The effects these performers chose are not new, revolutionary tricks. What makes their presentations memorable is the original presentations they brought to their routines.
At the end of the day, it is how you present a trick that makes it magical. You cannot simply rely on a method to fool the audience, and you cannot recite somebody else’s script as it won’t be genuine. You need to put the work into finding what you want to say and creating a routine around this message if you ever want to do impactful performances.
Wrap-Up
What do you like about magic in 2019? What do you dislike?
Jamy likes what the Spanish are doing for magic. They are focused on creating an experience of mystery, and they have a deep appreciation for what they’re communicating; they’re not trivializing the experience.
Jamy dislikes the overwhelming onslaught of magic that is released on a daily basis. Anybody coming into magic has to sift through material in an attempt to find something good.
Endless Chain
Eric Mead
Take Home Point
Don’t get distracted by material on YouTube or the fancy new product on the market. Becoming a great magician requires hard work, study, and finding a mentor who is willing to critique you.
Plugs
Take Two
Lyons Den
Preserving Mystery
Shattering Illusions
Devious Standards
Cups & Balls Masterclass
Card on Ceiling
Penguin Lecture
Jamy’s Website
The post Finding Your Voice with Jamy Ian Swiss appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

Jul 18, 2019 • 3min
Magician Appetizer #4: Reaching Out
Jonah serves up another bite-sized episode this week, giving you the motivation you might just need to hear.
The post Magician Appetizer #4: Reaching Out appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

Jul 11, 2019 • 4min
Magician Appetizer #3: Sitting Down to Write
Does the blank page scare you? Do you constantly find yourself deleting and retyping the same thing, only to repeat the process? Do you wish the computer could just read your mind and write the script you want for you?
In this bite-sized episode, Jonah addresses writer’s block and offers an easy strategy to start writing your magic script.
The post Magician Appetizer #3: Sitting Down to Write appeared first on Discourse in Magic.