Untangled Faith

Kristen Moser and Dan Watt join Amy Fritz to share their experience as former employees of Ramsey Solutions. In this episode, they share what it was like to experience Ramsey Solutions team meetings- particularly when the meetings were used to control a narrative or manage the image of the organization. [00:02:05] Intro Kristen Moser and Dan Watt [00:19:10] In what category of listener in the meetings, were Dan and Kristen? [00:24:19] Discrediting those who speak out. [00:28:00] The pattern of Dave’s meetings. [00:37:42] Pattern of disparaging spouses. [00:43:18] Response to January RNS article. [00:59:51] Dave’s demand for loyalty. [01:00:00] PR spectacles. [01:03:59] RS’s use of NDA’s. [01:10:40] Sensemaking.    Links: Got Your Six Meeting, Part 1 Got Your Six Meeting, Part 2 Nashville Scene Article Religion News Service December 2020 article Religion News Service January 2021 article Ramsey Response to the RNS article Liberty University Convocation   This episode is made possible by the support of the Untangled Faith membership community. For more information and to access the bonus audio with Chuck DeGroat visit: Untangled Faith Podcast is creating a podcast. | Patreon   Newsletter signup Paypal Donation Twitter: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Instagram: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Website: Untangled Faith Host/Creator: Amy Fritz Producer: Michelle Pjanic

This episode includes mention of guns and a reference to an assault allegation. Please take care when listening. Wade Mullen, impression management expert, joins Amy Fritz to share his observations of a Ramsey Solutions employee meeting. Wade Mullen shares how impression management works and points out some specific tactics that some people or organizations may use when they feel like their image is threatened. Disclaimer: The observations that Dr. Wade Mullen shares are subjective and are his opinions based on his knowledge of impression management. This sort of analysis is most effective when it is done over a long period of time with multiple people reviewing the data. [00:02:52] Background [00:06:16] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 1. [00:13:28] Wade Mullen observations. Appealing to cultural norms and standards. Generational norms. [00:16:04] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 2. [00:16:20] Language that stigmatizes others. [00:18:35] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 3. [00:19:10] Legitimizing. Comparisons. Define the situation. [00:24:15] The different categories of people taking in these messages. Condemning the condemner. [00:28:16] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 4. [00:28:48] The difficulty of giving critical feedback. [00:29:27] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 5. [00:30:21] Wade Mullen observations. Language of self-promotion. Creating the Us v. Them dichotomy. [00:33:22] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 6. (Mention of assault allegation) [00:34:08] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 7. [00:34:25] Condemning the condemner. Exaggeration. Negative events misrepresented. [00:37:02] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 8. [00:37:51] Got Your Six meeting clip from May 2019. [00:38:51] MUM effect.  [00:40:54] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 9. [00:41:57] Intimidating messaging. Unhealthy preoccupation with the identity at the top. [00:44:57] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 10. [00:45:08] Appeal to cultural norms. [00:45:49] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 11. [00:47:16] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 12. [00:48:33] What are we called to be loyal to? [00:50:14] Ad break [00:51:19] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 13. [00:51:43] Self-promotion and organizational promotion. [00:53:30] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 14. [00:55:47] Prosocial behavior. Distancing. [00:57:02] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 15. [00:58:24] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 16. [00:59:38] Stigmatizing. [01:00:27] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 17. [01:02:23] Belittling legitimate concerns. [01:03:31] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 18. [01:05:38] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 19.   [01:06:10] Is there a freedom to express concerns? [01:07:26] Advice for those in this sort of environment. Sensemaking. [01:11:56] Advice for organizations. Resources: Wade Mullen Cubicles of Charm, Crucibles of Condemnation Erving Goffman book. Something's Not Right: Decoding the Hidden Tactics of Abuse--and Freeing Yourself from Its Power Nashville Scene Article Daily Beast Article This podcast is sponsored by Faithful Counseling. For more information and for 10% off your first month, visit Faithful Counseling here. Are you interested in starting a podcast? Our sponsor, Libsyn makes it easy. As a friend of the Untangled Faith podcast, when you sign up with Libsyn, you get your first month of hosting for free. Sign up here and use the code: FRIEND.  This episode is made possible by the support of the Untangled Faith membership community. For more information and to access the bonus audio visit: Untangled Faith Podcast is creating a podcast. | Patreon   Newsletter signup Paypal Donation Twitter: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Instagram: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Website: Untangled Faith Host/Creator: Amy Fritz Producer: Michelle Pjanic Related Episodes: Got Your Six Episode, Part 1 Got Your Six Episode, Part 2

Author, licensed therapist, spiritual director, and speaker Chuck DeGroat joins Amy Fritz on the Untangled Faith Podcast. Chuck DeGroat is the author of the book When Narcissism Comes to Church which came out in 2020. The paperback edition releases soon making this a perfect time for a conversation with him on the podcast. Amy and Chuck talk about all things narcissism including the many faces of narcissism in faith communities, what systemic narcissism looks like, and what to do when you hear reports that a leader you admire has hurt someone. How do you know what is true? Time stamps:  [00:03:13] Amy’s experience on the launch team for Chuck’s book, When Narcissism Comes to Church. [00:04:48] What is narcissism? [00:06:53] Systemic narcissism [00:11:58] Do our church systems attract narcissistic leaders? [00:17:21] How does Chuck deal with resistance from pastors to seeing their own unhealth? [00:18:40] Suggestions for those who want to build healthy faith communities [00:24:50] Different ways narcissism presents itself. [00:28:13] What if someone tells me they have had painful experiences with a pastor who is kind to me? [00:31:40] Encouragement to leaders to be proactive in regard to their church culture health. [00:37:05] False vulnerability and performative vulnerability. 00:43:26] In a complex situation, how do you differentiate between who is the victim and who is the abuser? Resources: When Narcissism Comes to Church GRACE Narcissism and the System it Breeds by Dr. Diane Langberg Redeeming Power A Church Called Tov Something’s Not Right This podcast is sponsored by Faithful Counseling. For more information and for 10% off your first month, visit Faithful Counseling here. Are you interested in starting a podcast? Our sponsor, Libsyn, makes it easy. As a friend of the Untangled Faith podcast, when you sign up with Libsyn, you get your first month of hosting for free. Sign up here and use the code: FRIEND.  This episode is made possible by the support of the Untangled Faith membership community. For more information and to access the bonus audio with Chuck DeGroat visit: Untangled Faith Podcast is creating a podcast. | Patreon Newsletter signup Paypal Donation Twitter: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Instagram: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Website: Untangled Faith Host/Creator: Amy Fritz Producer: Michelle Pjanic Related Episodes: Untangled Faith: 38: Misunderstood: Are We “Dogging” on the Church? Guests: Jenai Auman and Mary DeMuth on Apple Podcasts

Gretchen Baskerville joins Amy Fritz to talk about Gretchen's book The Life Saving Divorce. Lifesaving Divorce Website Divorce Saves Lives Examples of Abuse Divorce and Excommunication Abuse in Religious Homes   Sponsor: The Ten Minute Bible Hour Support the show: Newsletter signup Patreon membership community Paypal Donation  Buy me a coffee Come chat with me! Twitter: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Instagram: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Website: Untangled Faith Host/Creator: Amy Fritz Producer: Michelle Pjanic

Boz Tchividjian, attorney and advocate for abuse survivors joins Amy Fritz on the Untangled Faith podcast to answer your questions. What's his origin story as an attorney? The origins of GRACE. Thoughts on the Us v Them messaging from many churches. NDAs Who is the Ronan Farrow or Jody Kantor of  #churchtoo reporting? Who did Billy Graham vote for? (Just kidding. Boz didn't completely clear this one up for us!) Links: Sexual Abuse Attorney For Victims | Boz Tchividjian Sexual Abuse Lawyer (bozlawpa.com) GRACE: GRACE (netgrace.org) Diane Langberg at the Caring Well Conference: Suffering and the Heart of God: How Trauma Destroys and Christ Restores - Diane Langberg on Vimeo Boz at the Caring Well Conference: Winter Inside the Church and Hope for Spring - Boz Tchividjian on Vimeo   Support the show: Newsletter signup Patreon membership community Paypal Donation  Buy me a coffee Come chat with me! Twitter: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Instagram: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Website: Untangled Faith Host/Creator: Amy Fritz Producer: Michelle Pjanic

Dan and Summer Watt & Melissa Hogan joined me for episode 39: The Problem with Financial Peace University and Dave Ramsey's Financial Rhetoric.  ⁠ This conversation we had was made possible by the fact that those of us involved in this episode have spent the last several years processing together our experiences with the ups and downs of Financial Peace University and the rhetoric coming from the Ramsey Show.⁠ ⁠ While we all had different levels of understanding and adhering to the plan, each of us have found ourselves with serious questions. Some of these questions started before we broke ties with the organization and some of these realizations came later.⁠ ⁠ We don’t claim to be unbiased observers. We all have had very painful and disappointing experiences with Ramsey Solutions, but we don’t think that negates the very real questions we raise.⁠ Links: D.L. Mayfield, The Myth of the American Dream Dan Watt- Why Write About Lampo? Dan Watt- Getting a Mortgage with no credit score American Gospel movie Support the show: Share this episode with a friend Leave a review Newsletter signup Patreon membership community Paypal Donation Support the show (https://buymeacoffee.com/untangledfaith)

Greg and Lauren Thoman join Amy to share their account of how their lives were upended by Ramsey Solutions leadership in May of 2020. This is the 8th episode in this series about Ramsey Solutions. Patreon Membership Community. Find us here: Twitter: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Instagram: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Website: Untangled Faith Support the show (https://buymeacoffee.com/untangledfaith)

Nathan and Amy talk about the lengths Ramsey Solutions leadership went to in their attempts to silence them, including gathering up their friends to malign them and reaching out to their current employer.  Patreon Membership Community. Find us here: Twitter: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Instagram: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Website: Untangled Faith Support the show (https://buymeacoffee.com/untangledfaith)

Nathan and Amy share about the the year after Nathan resigned from his job at Ramsey Solutions. Links: Julie Roys Podcast Michael Hyatt Podcast Organizational Narcissism and Virtuous Behavior I Got Your Six Leaving Ramsey Solutions Patreon Membership Community. Full Audio of the Got Your Six Meeting Find us here: Twitter: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Instagram: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Website: Untangled Faith Support the show (https://buymeacoffee.com/untangledfaith)

Melissa J. Hogan joins Amy to respond to Dave Ramsey's characterization of Melissa and Melissa's marriage in a meeting he led for all of his team members in May of 2019. This episode may be triggering to people who have experienced abuse and subsequent secondary trauma from attempting to report and/or ask for help. Patreon Membership Community. Full Audio of the Got Your Six Meeting Find us here: Twitter: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Instagram: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Website: Untangled Faith Transcript Support the show (https://buymeacoffee.com/untangledfaith)