The McMethod Email Marketing Podcast

Austin Lee is a surfer. He’s also a damn good copywriter. And today, you’re going to discover how he went from broke and depressed and stranded in Europe to on-track for 6-figures as a freelance copywriter. If you’re looking for inspiration, or if you enjoy a “zero to hero” story, you’re gonna love today’s episode. Thanks to copywriting, Austin was able to move to his dream city – San Diego – and can now surf whenever he pleases. He also likes to take random snowboarding trips and loves that he doesn’t have to ask a boss “please can I have a few days off”. Such is the tough life of the freelance copywriter. Let’s dig in… In this episode, you’ll discover: how Austin is on-track to make 6-figures as a freelance copywriter within the next few months how Austin turned a failed business into a launching pad for his copywriting career how to avoid small-time clients who can only afford to spend pennies on the dollar how to stand out on Upwork and differentiate yourself from all the other “me too” copywriters how to find clients on Facebook (and why this sneaky strategy works BETTER and FASTER than Upwork) Mentioned: Contact Austin: LeeCopy.com austin@leecopy.com Austin’s EPIC post on The Boron Letters Dan Kennedy’s Time Management Book Never Split The Difference Hardcore Closer John Carlton and Kevin Rodgers Podcast Profit First Freshbooks Intro and outro backing music: Forever More by CREO The post Austin Lee on How To Become A 6-Figure Freelance Copywriter appeared first on Drop Dead Copy.

Tony’s Mom was a first grade teacher who taught thousands to read… including him. Tony’s Dad was a technical writer and before long Tony was editing papers for the likes of Mobil oil. He learned about research long before ever entering the world of copywriting. Tony tried both psychology and business in school but hated both and thought he’d never use either… how wrong can you be? Instead, he took German classes because he wanted to date a girl in class. Ya gotta have priorities. He sold computers for Circuit City… but couldn’t sell the warranties (they dumped him). He sold advertising door-to-door but couldn’t find a way to sell even ONE 20 euro ad. Fast forward and his copy has beaten controls for $8,000 programs. How did someone without the “copy gene” raise himself up from such meager beginnings? Tony thinks you can do the same. That’s the subject of today’s Email Marketing Podcast. In this episode, you’ll discover: How Tony got his first two clients and the hilarious and valuable results of his work. One proven-effective way Tony lured one of his dream clients into submission. The copywriting book that got him started. Found sitting on the shelf…a gift from his father. The two dream clients Tony targeted right from the outset. He’s now worked with them both. “Kool-Aid” drinking copy secrets to simplify… focus…and become at least twice as productive. Mentioned: Tony Zarembski’s website I Will Teach You To Be Rich Drayton Bird David Allan’s Make Words Pay Intro and outro backing music: Forever More by CREO David Allan: Hey everybody, we’re back with another edition of the podcast my name is David Allan from makewordspay.com your host as usual. We’ve got a very exciting guest here today and I say a very exciting because he’s a copywriter and he’s been in your shoes if you’re just starting out he’s very accomplished now but he’s gonna tell us exactly how he he got that that level you know exactly the steps he took some of the crazy you know awesome people he’s worked with and Tony Zarembski, welcome to the show Tony Zarembski: Thanks for everything David Allan: I got your name right I hope? Tony Zarembski: You actually nailed it which is it’s impressive. David Allan: I think of batting pretty much like a baseball player most names maybe but I don’t know I have to go back and look because it’s probably because he spelled it out when he sent over your one sheet probably helped me out but yeah so you’re a copywriter you’re you’re in the thick of this whole thing you’re one of the people I think our audience is gonna adore listening to because you’ve been where they want to go you are where they want to go and you’ve been where they’re at now chances are Tony Zarembski: Yeah and recently enough that you know it’s not like someone who’s you know absolutely brilliant like Clayton Makepeace who you know the starting out is a distant memory for David Allan: That’s very important because a lot of people I think they either don’t really remember exactly how it all went or I mean that’s a long time to remember and also maybe that that’s not in their best interest sometimes to say exactly how it went – in some cases for I’ve seen that so let’s start from the beginning how did you get into all this tell us your superhero origin story and then bring us up to the present… Tony Zarembski: So looking back it seems so clear to me that this is where I was going to be mmm but but I’m still maybe I would say six years ago even though he’s doing some of this stuff I didn’t know it existed so I grew up in a household where my parents loved learning and reading and writing I was a first grade teacher and she taught over a thousand kids to read including me so that love was there from a really young age obviously as a copywriter is huge so walked into that my dad is fantastic at public relations and a technical writing and walked into that as well so in Middle School in high school you know while other kids were going on dates you know I be copy editing these you know technical documents of press releases and you know just different technical documents for companies like Mobil Oil and I’ll which for some of those clients yeah and you know again just luck of being in that household if I had been born in any other household that would not have been a thing you do when you’re right so straight straight luck pervaded your early early career yeah exactly and then I’m you know it’s funny when I went to college with just what you’re supposed to do if you take honors classes for high school you know at first I want to study psychology I thought God I’ll never do anything with that switch to business and it didn’t talk to a counselor at all to you know figure out a way to get out of school in four years plan well you know switch the business hated that I’ll never do anything with that I’ve only had some German classes that were great yeah one of the teachers in the language and one of the day to girl in my class so um you know switch to German it of course as you do yeah I don’t regret it for a minute I mean oh the people are fantastic experiences work you know looking back I learned from that how did you research on I mean much more obscure things that I’ve ever encountered in copywriting what’s what’s the origin this word from you know that was used in other thing you can’t get more in the weeds than that so it’s it’s been really helpful around this time you know in college I sold PCs and other electronics at Circuit City and it was pretty good at my job could never I could never figure out well like I couldn’t really spell the warranties because by the time I got there they were just worthless right so yeah I learned at that point my first kind of sort of copywriting which is you know you have to start with something you believe in so if I could saw all these computers and couldn’t sell one warranty well you know it kind of kind of tells me something and because I didn’t sell the warranties I have I I wasn’t let go from the job but I uh I looked in a schedule one week there were in the hours there like I asked yeah I asked like you know what happened oh you know what we’re kind of moving the schedule around next week next week by like a month and I’m just like should I check the schedule next week now but you were terminated on the sly so to speak yeah I was technically never fired maybe I’m employee should collect benefits one day and say hey so you were unceremoniously dumped from from the computer sales department yeah and where did you go from there so you know at this time with side-story getting a grocery store which that looking back was hugely helpful because I had been shy when I was a little kid but you know walk to the bus and people would say hi Tony I didn’t notice them I mean by the time as clear is over all these kids probably thought I was an asshole never once said hi to him so you know the grocery store that was working at the time really kind of forced me to have these conversations with people and interact in the word how different people thought and you know at that time too I had an internship in Hamburg Germany doing a basically direct sales so door-to-door sales for advertisements like basically for business ads for this english-speaking newspaper hmm yeah so it was it was interesting well you know what one thing was this about 100 degrees out and I’m in business attire you know going door-to-door around basically the biggest city in Germany so you know looking back the first thing I realized was you know this sucks don’t dododo door-to-door doo doo e-mail doo doo mail do anything but door-to-door so you’re a delight you were going to door-to-door you’re delivering this like you’re pitching basically yeah and you know one of the problems I encounter was it was in German I mean not that my pitch would have been great in English but it was it was not as good in German yeah exactly so you know looking back and a couple things that got out of that one I thought its first time is probably the ads were 20 euros I did not sell a single ad I could not figure out how to sell a 20-year ad beaten controls selling $8,000 programs now okay I was table stakes I couldn’t do that right I don’t know if there’s like a copywriting gene but if there is I did not have it so you’re starting out even at more of a disadvantage than maybe some people yeah and really the the only good thing I did at that point or knew at that point I realized was they you know you go to this office this long defunct company and there’d be stacks of newspapers on delivered newspapers because they hadn’t sold enough ads and you know they’re running all this capital in it and and it enough that it would have known a great way to do this but you know in a meeting with the company said what if we take this digital-only and it’s gonna be able to help us maximize our ad sales because then people can actually boost their search engine ranking you know so that was basically the first good marketing idea I had they eventually went with that but then through a series of many things are no more something befell down this time yeah exactly so that’s good so you were know when did you get out of there that would have been we think summer of 2006 okay not that long ago no not too long ago so it seems like a lifetime now yeah so you leave the door-to-door non-selling ad vocation and and what was and where did that take you from there so began during path still in school you know mm-hmm I took a couple classes multiple times to make sure it supported all the rules yeah exactly so you know six and half years later after I started I graduated with my German degree okay and business minor you’ll never use psychology never use business German all the time of course so one question before you move sir did you ever date that girl in the in the class we dated for a few years I’m looking back I was not nearly mature enough for a long-term relationship and it you know it was a great experience at the time and I’m happy I got the data and wasn’t you know you took it for the right reasons it sounds like that yeah a lot myself too so I’m going processes self-improvement I can look back in that time and think like okay you know I actually made it less one time here are all the things I could improve and it’s an all these different areas especially relationships that’s tell me a lot of my marriage I think too so you know look good win-win all right so you finally get out of there you know the ad the door-to-door stuff you got your degree and when did when did you start getting it when was the first like did you ever aside from the I guess the direct sales door-to-door was sort of your first inkling of directs you know direct selling and the sort of direct selling style businesses but what was the first time you heard about copywriting sure so I’ve been writing technical copy for a long-term client eyes I still do work with her phenomenal people and basically a freak set of events let me direct marketing literally it’s one of those things where if I hadn’t opened the mail it never would have happened so when I was up when I was a kid I had seen I’d read these Gary Pennsylvanian Clayton Makepeace ads because my grandma was really into health care and I would you know I had no idea what I was reading but I would think you know ten years old oh my god it might have clogged arteries noise no idea how he did that no idea what’s going on just like oh my god it really I really think I need this you know that’s this Phillips letter [Laughter] prostate problem yeah yeah they were so good and but you know I so I was doing technical writing I had long wanted to be a basically just edit anything I love that eating more than writing I still in a lot of ways due to the steak and I got this letter from you know just say a newsletter slash sales pitch Singles letter from this charity ASAP I donated to okay and you know I I read it inside this doesn’t work I mean they’ve already given them money I went to uh give them money right and I know they’re a really good cause so it was a Friday night my friends were gonna be going out and partying and I ended up pouring myself a glass of chocolate milk and taking apart this entire letter and rewriting it and I still have to stay and mean to frame it but I did that and I’m like oh my god I wonder if this thing had no idea and meanwhile on my bookshelf I’ve got a couple bookshelves and I’m one of my bookshelves my dad had gone blind if years before that and gifted me just this incredible library that I mean for our family that it’s the biggest gift you could give anyone I mean you know I could be down to one pair of clothes one outfit in and have my books and I’d be okay but not the other way around and I’m that shelf was tested advertising methods oh wow and yeah hey I’m looking through my count how the hell do I connect this letter I picked apart with a thesis a thing as you know this is the thing that pays money can you do this there was cables and that was that was when I really started down the rabbit hole right so you you read that book you picked it off the shelf when we’re reading that yep reddit found out what he read you know I found out who he worked with also you know of course it’s I think you know we may cover this later but that led me to Hopkins the Bible I read me – you know Schwartzel any – Collier Schwab you know a great bird – who you know work with cables let me – all these brilliant and wonderful people so you read that book and you think hey this is a thing yeah and you know what had happened was I I think I’ve been in reactive mode for most of my life and this is the first time I started you know I stumbled into these things I guess I was less reactive and then I ain’t know took German and dated a girl in my class but it wasn’t even a plan it was like this is kind of my plan I guess that’ll work yeah sort of a half sideways plan kind of thing exactly I need I started doing something brother been doing really inspired me you know you’re doing for so long and planning in Reverse it was you know who do I want to work with so I wouldn’t work at drayton bird because well he’s brilliant you wrote and he’s taught me a lot I want to work with the rates or me TT because abuses courses and they’ve helped me and my friends a lot I mean everywhere else resumes my friends got you know overtime like $30,000 raises basically just on the strength of those resumes along like I need to work with this guy because he does credible and then it was that process of you know actually getting getting my first client free work getting my second client free worker then eventually paid work and pay work with the people I really you know what was so thrilled and excited to work for what so who did you offer the free work to when you first did these things on for free for people who were who are your clients so I had to I started with one was on this productivity blog called eighties and efficiency owes its nine dollar product and and I I was you know I thought oh my god I could beat this control I just read Jaipur him II know how to review the system like you know pinch myself to them basically said hey I want to make you more money all I asked me to turn to so you know a reference testimonial once I meet your control I was kind of cocky more than I should have been you know once I meet your control basically you know they were super nice about it they sent me a graph and like I’m the graph showed like I personally go I beat this I mean look at the values in the graph and it’s like so the thing that I thought I would tear apart not not statistical significance but like I lost again and that was like okay I’ve got a crack down here now time to study a couple hours a day and also the next one was on fluent in 3 months Benny Lewis great guy and I know who that is yeah ok yeah so you know at this point he had his sales copy was basically just you know it’s kind of something he’d written and you know he does a lot of things well like learning more languages than I could fathom yeah but you know somewhere in between learning and dozen languages didn’t have time to study copywriting as much so I I helped him boost conversions and sales on one of those courses and I also found that’s what I kind of realize like also was good at I didn’t know the name for a type of marketing strategy because you know he had such a compelling storage but the way was telling you at that point was basically you know you you know everybody wants to learn a foreign language it’s not that hard I drilled down with him you know over a couple hour period of asking just peppering with questions I spent like 10 hours writing questions out you know one of things I asked him was okay how did you get started and it turns out he basically I think he got like a C or a D in a Spanish class in high school and you know kind of the same thing with us copywriting work you didn’t have a knack for it it isn’t you have to start when your kid door in a language it’s not you know all these things people expect he actually had that story so I connected those threads and like a while later I saw him and I don’t want to say was Good Morning America or something and it was it clicked because I see him you know basically using the same ideas and phrases ayat and I’m like oh my god that’s one of the things I could do for my clients right that was kind of a that was I guess a pivotal moment to write was saying oh no this is how this is how you’d get their story out and gonna make it into connection that’s what people want excellent so that was that was the first two clients yeah I need to work for free basically exactly just for testimo I’m not for free you got testimonials yeah [Laughter] you know thank you so much for helping they’re really really genuine guys work thanks so much for helping you know yeah we get statistical significance in at Ava’s haven’t heard back from it yeah but with Benny you created real value exactly so your partner how did you parlay that into something more significant for your own pocketbook and career looking at the people I’d wanted to work with them at the top of the list were Mead and Drayton right because I just have so much respect for them and they’re you know they’re brilliant I obviously could learn from them and so in both cases I just I figured out where’s the connection so with their meet were meet meets brother is close friends with Benny Lewis so so you know you know your brother knows him will have to work with you and I pitched meet multiple you know I comment on his blog I pitched him multiple times and each time you know I I did her a sponsor but it was like thanks for setting this or you know right well keep that a minor divert um and so you know I kept setting these suggestions it’s probably a half year and one day I realized as I’m going through like the members portal where you see you know the different courses that are offered it was basically just like here’s the name of the course like oh my god here’s my opportunity so I just you know I spent probably I mean it it was a short email but I probably spent eight hours on this email you know why if I then girlfriend now wife was like what’d you do today I worked on an email Oh select you know it’s cool but did you you know did you take an app that you you know play video games no no I worked out an email for the entire day you know it’s mostly done I’ll set it tomorrow but I basically rewrote that explain the logic behind inside you know I figured here’s something work you know people who are already members of a course or program are the people most likely to buy again yeah and by putting in actual sales copy in this place like like literally the weakest link in the entire company there’s other stuff this play or like I could have not changed a word nothing I could you know like the weakest link and you know I said okay this is this is really good I’ll change that came back has changed in like two days later I got an email from the copy chief you know saying okay we have this test for you you know if this works then you’re in nice like finally if you go you know if you go down to something you know you can do that helps them enough then I fact I found that that tends to open doors right and you did it in a way where you’re kind of you just give you just adding value yeah constantly and you know eventually works so you ended up working for a meet how long did that continue I want sort of exciting projects and stuff that you get to work on so that was about I would say six or seven months of pretty much full time with them and you know after that point I still do project work with them but you know the the employee thing wasn’t quite for me right you know great people the worker throwing so I got to work on you know some quite a few actually quite a few upsell pages got to work on a lot of email autoresponders those campaigns across cells up cells I got to work a bit on their fyke ship launch zero to launch right and that was going in at the tail and they had this colossal sales page and you know gave me like an hour to you know say you go through and you know make suggestions or changes so I’m like okay this is eight hours so yeah had a day is like that downing caffeine and going through this copy and we like okay this is great you know what what can I actually approve and you’re finding out there’s a lot of that excellent so that’s a you’re not one person off your list you knocked or meet off your list or you working with them and continue to work with them and the guy at the top of the list was Drayton Burt yeah just you know just interpret for anybody who doesn’t there’s an s familiar with Drayton you know David Ogilvy said he knows more about direct response advertising than anyone else in the world right that alone was enough for me just brilliant guy and I don’t remember you know now it’s actually it’s been long enough at Dover exactly I pitched him but I kept emailing saying you know I you know in this point it’s like I take it this John Carlton course I’ve read all these books I really want to work with you basically like I’ll work on anything at you know a buy my time I didn’t think I said it that well but at no cost right and just to work with you and you know finally I think he just for wented I said you know okay you you this you know I’ll read it afterward and that you know for me began a process of mentoring we worked together probably I would say maybe 10 ish times was just that the first time where I’d been I think exposed to that level of having someone pick apart my ideas and knowing that the the backstory on their ability to do that is you know almost half a century of being really good at their craft so I was having a legend pick apart your stuff so what did you know what is what are some of the things that you learn from working with these people like you you’re attracted some things working from Ramin of course work for me and obviously working on one side and having drayton tear apart your stuff what are some of the things that you might not have learned maybe if you hadn’t had these opportunities and taking advantage of them sure so I think with that I’ll start with some read since you mentioned the first a couple things one and it’s not necessarily in copywriting but is you always want to start with the strongest product you have me when I was on the inside there you know without giving any any proprietary details away they would have like there is a portal and you could see products are being built and it’s literally we know three years from now we’re gonna launch this we’re working on it we’re researching it we’re testing it we’re fine tuning it we’re doing a you know the marketing research were interviewing people and so you look at that and it’s a completely different canvas for me to work with as a copywriter compared to someone who says hey made this thing people seem to like it here are some testimonials you know right so that was huge and also I you know I I had weren’t kind of been indoctrinated to the hard sell thing I know or meet one of his big critiques at first was ok I get it you want to sell I get it you’re a copywriter but we you know this email we need to you know back way off and make them laugh and teach them something and demonstrate more right and that was huge trade ok so now it was hard selling and every email kinda thing yeah and you know I know the back side of that for me as a business now was I was a disorganized mess before I work with I will teach right I would have I would have notes everywhere I would have you know some stuff with my calendar some stuff on a paper calendar things in a thousand places and they had systems for everything everything was streamlined they have working procedures you know here’s how you do XY and Z and implementing that made such a huge change for me as far as being able to complete projects effectively and efficiently and not lose my mind drop the ball for client right so you set up your own systems going forward yeah exactly exactly so what are some of the things that maybe you I mean obviously you’re you’re disorganized but it comes to actually writing the copy and stuff what sort of system to be implemented so I right now kind of do all the non creative stuff inside a sauna and in any any task management software works but basically I have a template because a lot of times especially if it’s you know for a new client integral you have the same themes the same questions the same things you have to do every time so you know for instance every time you go into any copywriting project you need to know where is my research right you know what’s the league gonna look like when are these things do what are the pieces I have and so you know I’ve systematized that even down to in some cases template emails of okay this is great here’s my you know here’s my contract you know once you sign this and so I can just go into Google and just like basically clone this email clone this email and that frees up my time to focus on you know going really deep into the product to offer the campaign strategy you know mind mapping outlining all the usual suspects there and then the writing itself awesome awesome yeah I think that’s a probably a problem a lot of copywriters have is that disorganized chaos and although it’s capable some people is even capable thriving than that to some degree I think it would be though who’ve them probably to implement more systems we had a be Woodcock on the show not terrible yeah work great person right wait you worked alongside I’m sure yeah and she was big on systems and stuff as well obviously from the same resource yeah you kind of drink the kool-aid it I knew how does everybody else I have ADHD so it’s how can you live without the structure you know mmm and I think a lot of fields I know right fur does some I’m sure the majority of copywriters do so anything you do that can give you that framework and save you time and helping your clients where money is beautiful absolutely so you incorporated systems and learned a lot from or meet and the very good advice very good advice now if people want to get a hold of you either – you know inquire about having you work for them or to get some additional help and some thoughts and maybe ask you some questions how do people best get a hold of you the best way to get a hold of me as my website which is at tony’s from skis.com and i’ll spell that because it’s it’s a beast so www dot t– o– NY z as in zebra ar e M as in Mike B as in boy s k i.com of bloomer time t ony Z a REM as it might be as in boy s ki I know it’s not an easy one and right now I basically just have a landing page because I spent you know or the past queer so much my time doing projects is helping other people grow a businesses right but I realize finally I should probably my own website so I could find me there join the newsletter I promise I will be putting out some great tips for people and also a report on what to look for in your next cat Prater so expect that in the next few weeks awesome awesome well it’s been a real pleasure having on the show Tony you really give him a lot of value here today excellent thank you and everyone else listening I hope he took notes and we’re gonna listen back to this because Tony’s been where you are now or he’s you know it’s slightly ahead of maybe where you’re if you’re intermediate or getting into advanced and you know you’ve heard it’s ejected I know the path to take so for everyone else we’ll be back again next week with another exciting guest until then The post Episode #183 – Tony Zarembski On Scavenge Opportunities To Land Your Dream Clients appeared first on Drop Dead Copy.

Joe had a hilarious start into entrepreneurship. He would videotape his friends… who played in a band. Then sell those tapes to a very hot market… their parents. He wanted to get into video production so to build a website he learned HTML. Though no one took him up on his offer for video… they did inquire about getting websites built. So he pivoted. After a failed start-up and moving back in with his parents, he had to make this web design business work. So he started an Elance (now Upwork) posting habit. Split-testing ways he was replying to jobs. He read Dan Kennedy books. The single thing that made the greatest impact for him caused such a response that in just four months using it… he booked himself solid for a whole year. Discover what Joe used and all his insights any freelancer can use to raise your rates and get paid what you’re worth… Then DO IT. In this episode, you’ll discover: The one basic secret of Joe’s ads that delivered him clients he was dying to work with. (And filtering the ones he didn’t!). How to spot the right potential team members by asking them this one casual question. Why it’s important to change your mindset…and the one book he recommends to do it. The honest, no “bull crap” habit Joe uses every day to keep him on the right path. The real reason you aren’t charging more for your services. A simple way to level-up on your very next project. Mentioned: Grow Your Web Design/Digital Agency Website Design That Works Psycho-Cybernetics David Allan’s Make Words Pay Intro and outro backing music: Forever More by CREO The post Episode #182 – Joe Kashurba On Charging What You’re Worth. How To Raise The Roof On Your Mind And Your Money. appeared first on Drop Dead Copy.

His father was an engineer, so Joel followed in his footsteps. It took him only 8 months to realize he needed to get out of there and find something else. With a sales position available, he jumped at the chance to interview. He knew HVAC… but had no sales experience at all. When they offered him the job he almost turned it down. Taking it changed Joel’s ENTIRE life. He was on 100% commission… eating what he killed… yet growth was a very slow crawl. He noticed that the sales presentations were weak. In fact, they were putting people to sleep on the regular. So he recognized an opportunity. In every airport, he vowed to buy another book on giving better sales presentations. Before long, he realized why the company presentations didn’t work. Simple changes led to a 4x explosion in revenue. What happened next, when he moved out on his own (and finally into wildly successful webinars)… is the subject of the rest of this episode of the Email Marketing Podcast. Dig IN! In this episode, you’ll discover: The truth behind “experts curse”. Rule number one of an exceptional sales presentation. How to avoid the horrible mistake Joel made when he first jumped into I.M. (Even thought the webinars worked!) How Russell Brunson launched Joel’s webinar business by NOT giving him a job. Why the delicate balance between these two factors is the secret to a successful webinar. The number one most important piece of advice Joel has about webinars…and his 3-part sales format. Mentioned: The Webinar Agency Joel’s “Sold With Webinars ” Podcast Joel’s “Webinar Accelerator” course David Allan’s Make Words Pay Intro and outro backing music: Forever More by CREO The post Episode #181 – Joel Erway On 3 Simple Steps To Selling Millions With Webinars appeared first on Drop Dead Copy.

Jon Buchan’s first cold email… a bulleted list of his skills… landed him his first digital marketing job. When word of mouth referrals dried up after a while… he realized he had no way to gain new business. So he did what “every Brit” does in that situation. He got blind drunk and in the fog crafted a cold email to send to prospects. What happened next was shocking. Large corporations like Hewlett-Packard, Red Bull, Symantec and more began to respond. He’d get replies like… “My client sent me your spam email and we’d like to meet you to discuss opportunities.” He used the same types of email to land people endless job interviews… to get himself on podcasts… and now he’s started a rapidly-growing Facebook community. Listen to this episode as Jon teaches exactly what he’s writing in his fabulous emails. B2B doesn’t have to be boring to boring communication any longer. In this episode, you’ll discover: Use this rapport-building superpower to forge new relationships and create uniqueness. How stories endure…the PR savvy of dead celebrities. 3 foundational formulas to break through and stand out. You’ve fallen “victim” to these yourself…every day…without putting it all together. Weaknesses become towering strengths with a few simple words. How to express yourself and have reams of new clients thank you for it. Mentioned: Jon’s “Charm Offensive” Group Charm Offensive Samples of Jon’s emails on Twitter David Allan’s Make Words Pay Intro and outro backing music: Forever More by CREO David Allan:Hey everybody we’re back for another edition of the podcast. I’m David Allan for makewordspay.com – the host as per usual and we have a very exciting guest on here today because I think this guy for lack of a better term really gets it. He is a specialist in cold outreach. He’s really a copywriter in disguise I don’t think he’d really like to be labeled a copywriter and he’s really taken humor and sort of infused that into marketing practices to gain new clientele. And I’m probably going to butcher his name but John Buchan welcome to the show. Jon Buchan: Thank you very much. David Allan:Well welcome to the show. I think this is really good because I learned about you very recently and I loved some of the things you had to say. I read some of your read posts and so forth from the past and I think you’re just going to have a very exciting thing too because a lot of freelance copywriters which you know is a big audience. They’re not really sure for for a good chunk of time like how to actually go out and get clients. It seems to be a real big stumbling point. So maybe take us back from the very beginning before you got into all of this what were you doing and how did you end up here. Jon Buchan: Yes. Let’s see if I said I did come back so I’m always being in business. And I had a lot of business. And after a few years decide how I wanted to move to London and work for digital marketing agency. That was actually probably my first cold email just thinking about it. I’ve not said this before but I just sent I a bullet point list of my skills to the top results in Google for SEO agency London. I think I’m going to be in a week job I move down and then over the next few years it wasn’t. It was a family cable ish agency. I don’t I see expressionists. So I basically went to my agent CIA agent see over five years quitting my life and after a while the only people any job over me was say you know I thought I’d have I’m going to get me that job type that role. And I also thought it was a lot of tactics and things that were really not in the client’s best interest and I thought I can do this by myself or with my brother who was my business partner. And I got my 90 cents and we started my agent say and went very well until all of my one of my slides dried up. And then I realized I was crazy too and I didn’t see what you’re just given will warm lace. I didn’t have a business so I was desperate and I dealt with that the only way Brits know how I got blind drunk. And I just remember I can’t remember most about evening but I didn’t remember I wrote this absurd claim. And in the morning I was still tipsy enough to think it was a wise idea to send this to very senior people at Big Brown very city marketing people. And I said like Red Bull and Pepsi and so on and these you know these types of you know giant corporations and I didn’t you know I don’t know if I thought it would work but I think I did. I just thought I’d try. And to my amazement it worked. So I got these amazing complementary responses. And my favorite one sent me right. My colleague forwarded me an email. And we would like to meet you which is such an oxymoronic sentence. Yeah I know the one saying like I never replied to these but I absolutely give my money. I actually actually have two replies. And I realized every time I sent a same out every time I press send to I get paid or you know purchase data from Octon directors. I did it I got more of these complementary responses and sounds more intense and I ended up meeting with Greipel cards the Mannatech Cisco Barclays love just countless big brands would reply and I get meetings with and obviously I wouldn’t close all of those but I closed enough that it worked and I didn’t change a word of mouth for about three years. I found a magic trick here. I didn’t do follow up messages. And obviously after a while I kind of reverse engineer why I came out. And one of the things that I recognized is that I remember when I sent it. One of the things I thought was I need to send something different to what everyone else is sending because even if someone in digital marketing I would get calls e-mails offering me digital marketing so I knew what people were sending and I wanted to make something completely different. So I always I to reverse engineer it. I started experimenting with sending direct my analyst well. And after about five years of getting these complementary responses and bucking all these meetings I realized actually this is the thing on bestor is opening doors and how to. Get calls or meetings with just about anyone. And that’s when I think actually this is what I want to waste on its charm offensive. And when we did generation through léontine email direct mail and then this year around March the end of March this year I started my facebook group basically on a whim. I did a pilot call with a guy that runs a group called The Cult of coffee and I said you’ve got something unique you know. Then you could start a group that would be successful. And that was basically that’s when I made the decision. I started posting content and to my amazement just six months later I got five thousand and numbers after an email list. Now I’m selling products that basically a whole business. And I never thought my stupid easy words from a drunken stupidity would lead to a second business. And if I I’m wrong in 2012 my life would be very different. And. I’m just shy people my very way is why I generate new business and it’s working to pay. And it’s a great feeling to bail out people. Yeah I think. I think it’s very interesting you know story that you have and that you did you know sort of get blind drunk and sort of that allowed you to sort of you know think outside the box express really maybe who you really are. You know as a person and the way you would normally talk to somebody you see so many emails and of course I get these all day long too of you know just these stairs I’ll you know professional speak type emails and it’s just like god awful. You know I want to read the first. I don’t even know what the first thing I read of yours was but I just I laughed I know I laughed and I thought oh this guy is just he’s just expressing himself authentically. And he actually had an idea just on the spot it would be funny to make a cartoon character. That’s actually the type of person that speaks like you know the mouth of a fairly. That’s a great idea. You talk like that in his normal life and then he would put on another face. That’s a true market that goes up and is a great idea. I was yeah I can do it when I looked at my I realized that because I never studied copywriting it might be something only recently I probably studies Southcoast writings. I come to sell products. I was using Kema formulas because I’ve been obsessed with stand up comedy and sitcoms and funny movies. So all of those were built in those like these different formulas. And I recognize that’s that’s what I’ve done right now. It’s I keep tension with these you know. Right now it doesn’t have to be laugh out loud funny but just then all the other emails in someone’s inbox and that’s one of the chiefs and I’m Yeah. So when he shot content myself and I love it it just keeps getting crazier. Yeah I think it’s and I think it’s you stumble on something that perhaps is different for everybody but the but for you it’s sort of the same for me. I first years when I first started writing emails what I learned from a guy named Matt fury wrote the legendary internet marketer and he basically would tell you he was forced to write like you talk and then sort of your case like you said you’re a big fan of stand up in movie funny movies and all sorts of sarcasm the stuff being British. You know I’m Canadian so I get a lot of that stuff too. It’s you’re just expressing yourself very authentic. And I think that really what also is what really comes across not just funny but you’re just not afraid to express yourself. Yeah. Well for me I am I struggle with the opposite. Like I’m always just find it curious when this courses on how to be more authentic. To me it’s not the default setting. Actually that’s the easiest part. I mean I contadino I read and like I can speak in corporate mind fucking up your job to me get me to write in a tone of voice and voice. I just couldn’t do it. So for me it’s on the other way around. That’s natural to me. On the corporate set there’s something special to think about like the way you choose express yourself courses humorously. And there really is something there. A of marketing things. Sometimes is actually copyrighting what a sales message is like injecting a little humor. Sometimes it can be a sort of a risky element depending on who you’re talking to. You know from what I do elsewhere. We talked about as much as a magician. It’s really the humor that’s driving the whole performance. Endearing myself and creating rapport with the audience. Not so much the tricks or the you know the medium if you will what I’m using to express myself. I think it’s the same for you. Like there’s some there’s a special rapport building thing that goes on when humor is shared between people. Yeah definitely. And if you can make someone smile or make them laugh especially when it doesn’t work then you’re going to be you going to when someone’s attention and actually going to read your message and also then you’re likely to respond positively if you made them like you made or even the office. I think they’re going to hit reply and if you send a you know just a general generic came out and especially the humorist and it yourself or the situation where I just sort of joking about it you know because there’s a lot of e-mails where they kind of hide away from the fact that they said you know that they shouldn’t call him out. Whereas I’m in my emails I would say I’ve highly on John Greetings. I’m John. Got United from A-list. But hey at least a list where they can do something right. That’s that they’re on a list. And I brought up my last name. I like that man’s name. I’ll start with you have this problem. Obama infomercial. I went right in with Yeah I got it from a list like a Since you say that you know the rules come down like I it and I was like no one else’s message me Libres and refreshing honesty is really effective in silence. So it is it is because it just cuts through all that sort of like pretending you know that you’re not doing what you’re actually doing. Yeah. It’s and I’m actually trying this taking it further as well for actually what I’m doing proposals aren’t coming at me thing and I’m going three prices at a price and I’ll go well I this is deliberately inflated because I know you’re going to negotiate me down. So I said to a client I said I just want the normal price and he was like no no no let’s play the game. That’s a completely local you know. If there is this kind of dance that we do that’s doesn’t really need to be there anyway. I kind of just make fun of it and just you know we’re all just paper at the end of the day we don’t have to have this big pretense. And I think that’s the magic trick is that you don’t have to have to get through that. Yeah. By calling attention to the elephant in the room kind of thing you supposed it and then it disappears. Exactly. Exactly. So let’s let’s go into more like history. You know elucidated a few sort of Trixie’s And if you will because we have like I said we have large you know audience comprised a lot of freelancers and this is the one thing I hear they get daily emails probably about this is like you know people I’ve heard you know prospecting versus you know positioning himself and all those guys stuff. But I think the best way when you’re starting out and the fact most people I’ve ever heard of doing anything service based starting out is they’re out there outreaching to people and they don’t like to talk about that part because it came at the very beginning and sort of position themselves as some sort of dude who was like a magnet. But at the beginning you know they reaching out to people. So what are some of the best ways. Like you said you obviously use humor. You had this one e-mail that went for three years running. You know what are some of the elements people should be putting in their e-mails to make that connection with people that are very authentic where they’re only on the first person format. I’ve used a very similar age now to get people as many job interviews as they want. Like that someone wanted to work in marketing. I had no experience but I got a job at a marketing agency and I got like 13 or 14 interviews and in an email I know there’s lots of tricks Nightbeat you know it’s got some humor in there and stuff. But it was honest of an 11 experience. They asked. Like I didn’t we didn’t pretend that I was these veterans they would be taking that chance. Well you get to mold me into the perfect employee so you can you can take your weakness put it on make it call it the elephant in the room or turn it into an advantage. Right. That’s a huge thing. And then there’s other things like when you’re making an ask I always sugarcoat it. So one of my lines from the original now is. If you agree to meet with me for coffee or lunch or tequila shots and promise to make sometimes attaining your luck I might even wear a top hat. And you know I look at that is that there’s a formula for a joke that is called a triple and it’s basically obviously coffee that’s sensible. Lunch that sense looks killer shots. That’s completely absurd. No I was up against loads of agencies that I’ve got much fancier offices ostensibly but I pastries. For. Staff. Being a fan of client lists you know that I had a lot more towards all that stuff as an advantage but then no one else has offered to take them for tequila where I get to night that is all they need to remember me for good or ill mostly for good. So you sugarcoat your requests and if it’s a phone call I’ll often say if you great a seven minute call with me. Just an unusual number. I will certainly do you know by telling you either the lamest joke I know or some random trivia about my hometown that you’ll find online fascinating and it just makes that request that instead of it’s ending like a hard sell you turned into a low because the channel called e-mail is not to that every feature and benefit of the all is to sell the idea that a call with you are making is not a terrible use of that time and it turns into. And as I say I’ll give you some idea. You’re free to stay up. So with that instead of feeling like I’m going to be hard southcentral it’s like oh this is going to be a fun call and I might get some ideas for free. You know that and he’s made me laugh that at the moment you know you can see how that’s going to be far more enjoyable. And I might say yes to that request but I’m going to be grilled by a salesman. So it’s been putting your cards on the table. Sugarcoating your requests. And then there are joke formulas that you can use that anyone can use so what is the trick. I just went through. There’s another called the triple reverse and I used this actually to get on the Kevin Rudd just as I started with I want to introduce myself in a way that showed I was interesting was he unclutter. I last I wrote ZEVALIN says and then immediately smile got a laugh and you see just winning people’s attention. So the way it works is you make someone smile and laugh and then you can put your little pitch in let me get down to brass tacks. Talk about your business man you made him laugh again and you can do it or ask so nicely and you just keep winning someone’s attention with a little. Yes family doesn’t have to be laugh out loud funny it would just smack with the stuff that gets their attention. And I’m one that smiling if you think about it as they’re reading it they’re reading your requests while they’re smiling and laughing. They’re going to the mall. So it’s got a little grace period or for sale that you’ve created. And if people want specifics if you search for find the fairness of the hash tag hash tag send it on Twitter. The people at the stands the letters I used to send will scare the hell out of me. I didn’t want this message getting out. But now it proves that it didn’t work so I started sending as a direct mail piece of research that I asked to expand the all say the exact copy and replicate it. Sorry if I rambled on a bit. No no that’s fantastic exactly what we want to know. So you’re basically creating these little like almost patterned interrupts you get getting the norm like most people would say and that without those things in there so they just get this boring email it’s like pitching your services or whatever. But you’ve created these little pattern ups. Like you said these which are love which smirk were the sort of little bits or does that you’re sprinkling in amongst the to you the important stuff. Yeah I think that I’ve labeled it so I didn’t know that time an interrupt and tell you this. Yeah and as soon as I had the time I was like I know what I’m doing. That sounds like it was intended to be true. And I coined humor I just wrote I think it’s the best homage drops in science and so on I know staling remotely. And I’ve been asked the best first impression you can make and the other thing about this approach is it looks really personable even if it’s not seen. I don’t know why I’m saying the same mean out of the first name changing for a long time a just looks passable. It looks like a one to one exchange even though it’s not just a way of writing that’s what that resonates. And the other benefit is he will respond and I’ll try to make you laugh or I’ll respond in the same informal style. So already you’re talking in a different way you’re not talking in business language. You talk a lot you know each other. That’s a huge advantage. People actually look forward to the cold that you’re going to have rather than just a grains. Yes. Yes. No I think I think that’s yeah that’s a very important thing. It’s like this afternoon I think of the name of the book but there was a book that came out many years ago where the guy advocated being 100 percent honest at all times. Yeah. And he said that while that is incredibly difficult. He said that immediately when he was like that it freed up everyone else to be like that. And so that’s exactly what you’re doing in a way or you’re because you’re incorporating humor and you’re making people laugh and stuff. They’re coming back and it’s just more casual and more real. They simply I think a lot of that and I use this especially to get in touch with for brands that was my thing I really wanted to work with big brands at the time. And. I think a lot of them I kind of liked that I wasn’t putting them on a pedestal. You know they are people and I guess they must get so many emails that you know scour that linked in profiles and find something that they got in common with them. I think people can sniff that like you know pretending that you know asking. What I do like I can jog up on it. I can imagine a scenario where you don’t start at once. I write it all that’s the thing I can talk about that subject line. I actually read some people that I kind of you know just like to be spoken to normally. And there’s like a bit of a slump. And I think panic people kind of like the airline business as well as like it shows a bit of daring and brazen. Yeah. Yeah. Shows some confidence not just in positioning there as well I might be extrapolating a way too much but it is something that. And I just like to say I can say that normally Yeah. It’s completely different to the same people that is really petrified of putting a smiley face and a name out there. We got to this point where. It’s kind of like double lives on us. Why are we seeing this this way. Why. I think it might be a PR agencies that have in the last few decades taught this kind of double talk. I said that right. I don’t know what it is but I’m hoping one by one we can make this communication more human. Yeah well I think there’s a lot of parallels to a lot of different sort of fields you know. I mean this is the same thing that I would think occurs in dating you know people are looking for the perfect thing to say to the member of the opposite sex to sort of unlock that conversation and get things started. It’s almost the same thing because they’re looking for look and say something magical where like the music comes on in the background here it goes to the side you know and you sweep a person off their feet or whatever works much better just doing kind of what you’re doing which is just being real and just talking like you would normally talk and just not putting putting it on a pedestal just saying hey what’s up is you know yeah I’m just confidence. I think people can detect when you make tentative and hesitant and not enjoying the whole exchange Why is this you know everyone’s going to like it. Like I didn’t get a response once and this was racing I I there’s this just this year where I got a reply saying congratulations this is the worst housing marketing e-mail I’ve ever received. Before I get even a reply a minute we sent a follow up saying but the irony is not lost on me that I replied You know it’s brilliant. See I think people are worried about getting those negative replies and my response to that is well if you sending call emails you are interrupting someone’s day don’t respond at all. All right. Now what I want you say you’re going to get some replies like if you do. Right now my human mind you are trying you know in some humor and especially the depersonalise a lot more. You have a much higher chance of someone. I’m also. So for me it’s self-selection like I haven’t really silly things in front of me. I photoshopped a basket of kittens had babies. People have said Aren’t you worried that people are going to go. I’m not in it with him he’s playing a professional and for me it’s like now that that’s exactly the point it’s self-selection. It’s not about opinion. I don’t really want to work with them. I have standards of my detractors I have standards. I just. That’s. And the boring people can come where they are basically boring. Boring boring. That’s a good way to put it. John what are some really people want to do want to get some teachable is of humor down. They don’t want to seem like a dog or a milkshake. What work or what should they be reading. We should look into. Well first and foremost the group on Facebook called charm offensive and I’ve heard they’re good. Yeah yeah yeah they’re not that they’re not entirely I fly by. And I heard you say a bunch of kids from a burning building so I guess allegedly. Allegedly so that you can find me on the link. And John Buchan and. Charm Offensive daquiri Hey I’m actually going to start. As of today actually I’ve started writing on my blog Zouabi material on that. And you know something like I hope we are on the outside of my stuff. There is a great book I’m going to butcher the name now called the serious joke Writer’s Guide I think and it’s by someone I think it’s Juday is it is that sinister prices guide. I believe it is called and can get on Amazon. Really really. Really the best thing is to watch stand up comedy or watch comedy more and it can’t be you know the more and more you watch it the more it creates those sort of you know punchlines. We’ll be calling the formulas. Well we’ll just be calm natural. Combined with you know going to like the charm offensive group and letting the sort of humor formulas just so you know I’m just writing more. I just practice writing. You’ll get better at it. So that book from Amazon joined charm offensive and watch more comedy and you’ll be able to get better writing than this disarming style show. Or just write my letter. And just rip that up and change the references slightly. That can be a short cut. Who are some of your biggest comedy influences. Oh yeah I just it so as far as just like being really good with jokes. Jerry Seinfeld is just a great joke Strassmann. I like Bill Hicks. I like a lot. Bill Daksha pal Chris Rock loves those guys but also the writer Hunter S. Thompson in his book fair and I live in Las Vegas and he also has books of just these letters that he’s written and that kind of style because he was not think about him and so few people like this guy is the same person to everyone. Right. Literally it’s their mother that you know it’s slightly different but pretty much the same person. And that’s only one that I know of. Like that. So check out his books as well. Also he is to do one thing about Hunter S. Thompson I heard a friend who was like a Hunter S. Thompson like afficionado and he said that Hunter S. Thompson couldn’t actually hand up the books of like Hemingway Afghanistan. Yeah. Yeah you say you got fired for typewrite he a copying got a typewriter. Oh yeah just look at there’s a great video online for people who want to go look. I think I think it’s all a bob and you where are you. I think it’s Conan O’Brien is out there visiting them when he was still alive when they’re shooting off cannons or something. Or does it actually get a good idea. Great line. I just remember it is a formula where he’s I think he’s one of the universities and he said I hate to recommend alcohol drugs insanity but it’s worked for me. Another two or of us boy go. That’s awesome. I really want to thank you for coming on the show. John you’ve been a pleasure to talk to you. Was a very funny and you should do some stand up. I’m going to keep fighting and I’m going to do it again and I want to say I would love to say some stuff from me that talks. Well the magic and how it relates to coffee I’d love to say that. Yeah I think I think I’m willing to say we both got our homework cut out for us. Yeah yeah. Likewise I was going to see oh I know where you’re performing next John. And yeah real pleasure having you on the show I wish you the best for people you know charm offensive. Of course what was that hash tag people looking for. And the fire is actually I found the ferret and you’ll see a few people at scanned that last are in and say hello. Excellent for everybody else. That’s the route for this week. We’re back again with another exciting guest next week. Until then. The post Episode #180 – Jon Buchan On Cold Emailing Strategies To Make People Open, Read and Reply. (Even Massive Brands) appeared first on Drop Dead Copy.

Bruno was in IT when he was 18. At 19, he was freelancing and making an easy $3500 a month. Seeing that the web was the next frontier, he dove into web design and landed a job with a big agency. In 2004, he opened his own company in the UK. He had taken on freelance clients while at the job and parlayed that into a lifestyle many would envy. He traveled, partied, and relaxed and enjoyed life while continuing to grow… working a scant few hours a week. Seriousness again took hold a few years later when he tried to continue to grow but found he was lacking. He saw other agencies charging huge fees but couldn’t find the path for himself. He knew he needed some training and though it took a year, he invested. That was his introduction to Facebook groups. What Bruno has done and discovered will put real money in your pocket if you follow his lead. Buckle up. In this episode, you’ll discover: How to decide on what courses to invest in. Bruno took the simplest, “sure-fire” way. 3 dirty tricks your mind plays on you that prevents you getting the help you need today. Clever ways to know if your Facebook Group efforts are working. How the truth about “pregnancy” is holding you back from success. An ingenious strategy for winning the game of “promotion day”. Mentioned: Bruno on Facebook Bruno’s Facebook Group Russ Ruffino’s Clients On Demand David Allan’s Make Words Pay Intro and outro backing music: Forever More by CREO David Allan: Hey, everybody We’re back with another edition of the podcast. I’m David your host as usual. We have a very interesting guy on the show today that I’ve been following for a while. His name is Bruno Domingues I believe and if I’m pronouncing that right. And one of the things I wanted to have Bruno on the show today to talk about this is a very interesting sort of lead generation techniques by hanging out in people’s Facebook groups that have his ideal clients. And on commenting and so forth and generating leads that way he’ll have much more to say about this. Bruno Welcome to the show. Bruno Domingues: Thank you David. Good to be here. David Allan: Yeah it’s fantastic you’re in Lithuania. You just told me off the air. Going out living in the Nomad lifestyle. It’s good to be able to travel and work remotely as I do myself it’s fantastic. Now let’s take it back. Where were you born. How did you get into all this. You know online marketing and so forth. Bruno Domingues: Online marketing? I’d say I went from all my early years I was working in I.T. So I started by working when I was about 18 I went freelancing pretty quick by the age of 19 I was making about three in the house thousand a month already. By then I signed this I realized that web was the future rights of Web sites and all that. So I changed from IP to web. I went for four years in the big agency in Holland. So I was living in Holland for four years there. I learned all that in it. And after that I opened my company so that was in 2004 when I started the business I opened in the UK and then went which was where I thought it was the best place to open. At the time. So when you were doing I.T. were you doing like I was just freelancing kind of stuff too. Yeah mostly freelancing. I actually had agency that just called me and say I have a new assignment for you and they will be usually like a three month assignment six hours a day or four hours a day and was really well. Some of them those like quite good and I had my own clients as well. I built computers I stole software it gave technical support. All of those things at the time and that which required me to be physically present there. Right. So I couldn’t actually travel and do it because I couldn’t do it remotely. So once I realized that was like I loved what I did. Clowns were awesome. And I I found very quickly that people are usually very valuable because everyone gets their computer fixed and they want it fast so they want to keep on good terms to the right people. You know what I mean. Oh yeah I I can relate to that certainly. But once I realized I needed to be free I wanted to be free to travel the world around the world from anywhere and that’s where it can be ideal going into web development. So I went into that in 2000 and 2004 and that started the company. Meanwhile at the same time a remarkable online marketing comes along with development Web sites as well as basically are building cells for those rights that you need to send traffic to it. So it all went from there. And that started my digital marketing agency in 2004. I had already clients because I’m like one of those guys who are always busy and I never rely on just one thing or like thinking when I leave my job I’ll start looking for a. I never think like that. I think like I get plans while I’m on the job and I only leave when I already have so many so much work to do outside. I just can’t handle it and I need to just go on full on. So by the time I started my company within two months or so I had already had enough clients just go on full time getting on the business. And then with that I started doing the line marketing side which was mostly Google on the words at the time. I started traveling as well so I don’t you know I was in lots. I’ve been traveling all over the place and my friends Silex and Berwick’s Switzerland. I’ve been everywhere in Central Europe. The center opened in Eastern Europe I started to Lithuania Estonia Latvia. So we know this over the years I grow the business slowly but I was mostly traveling and enjoying and working maybe two or three hours a week sometimes and just relaxing enjoying life and learning. So that was that and only recently like in the last few years that’s when I started up as enough of partying and traveling you know. Let me get serious on this and start very seriously. So that it was about maybe two years ago I tried on my own. Initially I thought well I’ll That’s what I can do. But I found that I needed training really on sales sales training right positioning help as well to know how to position the office because I just thought it was working very well because when I tried to increase my prices and I just couldn’t find a good way to justify I knew other agencies larger agencies were doing like insane prices like 50000 other thousand. But I had no idea how to do that. So this was part of the training I went through to understand how to do it. And once I got through that that’s when I found Facebook groups last year in August that Soval again one of the issues I had in digital marketing is when I go if I want to go out of my area it’s extremely expensive because most of these big brand agencies spend tons of money on branding which means they take the top positions they pay like 15 15 or 20 dollars a click which is way too expensive for a small agency to afford. So that made really hard and I wasn’t sure how can I market my own area because it’s all fake. I mean if I go and do as you know all the big agencies spend maybe 100000 someone in marketing will easily beat me because it’s the way I can beat them. And it’s like you know it was really hard and that’s when the first book groups came along and it really solved that problem for me. I mean since then I haven’t had any more problems finding clients because they even come to me now. So it’s like completely changed the whole face of marketing online. So when you said you went through training you know. Was that. Did you go out and get courses or die. I invested $9000 in the course and that was the best course I could find. So I did some research found made sure that was really the real deal. No it just took me a year to join before I joined. That’s what I like most of. We are a bit reluctant in investing on training because we’re not sure it’s the right thing. We are afraid we get scammed sits right on. And then we’ll be 100 percent sure it’s really going to solve the problem we have. And I mean it took me. And then again we went to try and do it on our own as well because we think we can get there on my own. So I tried that and it didn’t go that well. So I managed to increase sales by maybe 10 percent in the course of a year and that was like a huge screw up. So I. I like it is a joke folks. I have to like to think to myself and keep an open mind take a look at this talk to myself like this. Listen I’m not getting anywhere with this. I mean trying to get it on my own all this time. So it’s time to take a different approach. Right. Right. You keep trying the same thing you always been trying you’ll end up getting the same thing you know but always been getting. If I wasn’t able to grow this for her on my own means I need help finding help I have to really think it’s terrorism the best. So that’s when I decided to do that. That was a mentorship or was that just a straight course was a coaching program with their ship was altogether Do I give a shout out to anybody. Well you know who is a wrestler. Of course he’s a good guy right. Yeah. So our early on was actually far better than I expected. The training when I initially went for it I thought it would solve my positioning and my self-training had far more than that and they had the introduction of the Facebook groups which I didn’t even know they existed almost. So that was the first place he heard about it. Yeah it was the first place I heard about it. And once I realized I went within the groups initially I like let me see what the hell this thing is. You know like what happens in here. Most people go into groups and they already think let me sell something you know obviously for me it was like a strange creature and I wanted to explore and see what it is what it was how it works and for me to understand how it works before I actually take action and do some venture because I don’t want to make sure when I do something I do it right. I don’t screw things up. So that’s what I did when I started talking with people participating and answering posts. And because I wasn’t trying to sell anything it’s worked really well. People started think gaging start coming to me I think my best friend send me a PM asking some questions. Some of them came and tried to sell me something and I was so open minded or like really relax like let’s see what’s got what happens. For me it was like a study. I was almost doing to study to understand how it works. And once I started getting fat once I got like a first two clients I started realizing what how like this is like all these people here a lot of them are like potential clients. And that’s when I realized the potential of it I was like holy crap this is like awesome. And I went on Google sheets I spilled a little Google ship as a template just for me to put in engagements and that all came to me. What did I speak with or were like potentially a client so all that so I don’t forget to follow up because that’s one of the hardest parts is to follow people up. And if you don’t do that then you lose out on opportunities. So I started feeling that I started putting in. Where did I post on what results I got from the post. How many people came to me with that post etc. and with it I started getting a good feel of work would I find the customers I needed. And then I started following on that. So on the first month I made the ball maybe ten twelve thousand extra. I used to make just from that. And I was still a bit unsure about what to sell Exactly. So I was just offering like the Google ads campaign set up on running Google advertisements for businesses. So I was doing that in the beginning did a few sites as well but mostly people were looking for marketing. Most of them because I wasn’t trying to sell them it may also make it different so they actually approached me and they did a book about their business and I was just interested in listening about what they have to say rather than try to talk about my own business and actually avoid talking about my own business because I realized that most people just want to talk about their own stuff. Yeah. And the fire is very smart very smart. I’m just another guy who wants a lot of his own stuff. Nobody is going to give a crap because it’s so common. But what I notice is everyone wants to talk about their own stuff. And if I want to get the customer first of all I need to listen I shouldn’t be talking I should be listening. So that’s what my perspective on it. And I just did that. Just listen the people love to talk about their stuff that for me is nice. I met so many interesting people. I made the joint ventures I did all kinds of business with its my good friends as well. I mean it’s really amazing. It’s a very interesting community. So when you have that open mind and they’re just not trying to sell you understand the full scope of it because zero. Like they say your network is your network. Right. This is a very common phrase and this is very true of the contacts I made are extremely valuable right now because I have contacts now with celebrities with influencers. I have many of them are my Facebook friends and some people I didn’t even imagine that would ever really really mean able to connect to like or be close to their in their circle. And that’s like really at that level people like Robin Sharma I never thought I would be able to actually up with each other. I mean that’s like also where you were all that on that level of Gary Vaynerchuk or Ryan Sharma with are the top guys in the world on what they do it’s like your perspective changes it starts to see how that world works. So that’s when it shifted from finding just below inside where are you looking for your ideal clients but where are your ideal kinds are like the small Reiger or normal business you know the small business school nor your ideal clients become like Mastermind on there is influence or celebrities. That is a completely different game. So when you get to that point the common objections you have when you’re selling which is usually it’s too expensive I don’t have the money. I’m not sure if it’s right but when you’re talking with an influencer or someone on a level they don’t have the kind of objections they’re really smart they know what they’re doing they know what they want and they have the money. So it’s like it’s no problem really assailed that level takes maybe 25 minutes into a phone call and there’s like it’s 4000. OK let’s go. I said OK let’s go. I had one of 42000. Let’s go to those lights. And I was like whoa is it possible. My head was like this is the fun filled. How is it possible that before I couldn’t even I would I had to be like three or six months chasing a potential client to get the 4000 sale or 6000 sale. Right now I’m like I’m making sales of that level. So it’s like Fort Bliss number two. So I say so what were you selling. You charge $42000 for him. I don’t have anything at $2000 so my minimum I have is four thousand. So I have different offers which are the first group training is one of the first. So it depends on what the person. So I do recall where it talked about. They tell me about their business what their goals are and then I can see if I can help them on what’s the best option for them in terms of course to go. How should we address it. And a Facebook group is the right way to go or how exactly will it work with them. So that’s one of the parts. And then you have the ads setting up and managing the campaigns Google Ads managing and setting up and building those funnels. This might lead to four main things I’m doing right now so that people people are probably listeners to this are probably going to sit there in rapt attention if I don’t ask this next question they’re going to be like why didn’t they ask this question which is what actually what did you charge somebody $42000 for. Oh that was the whole package was the Web site the Vollmann the other Web site a whole thing a little old man was the ads included. But that person asked me something nobody asked me before which was 12 months support as well. So it was all together in one package. They actually didn’t do the price it just told me to listen I have my budget for a thousand. I want you to know this is how it’s going to be played. I’m going to play first month this second month this third month this is the payment plan. This is how it’s going to go. This is what I want. I knew exactly what they wanted it was all planned out. So like I said I just had to say yes or no. It’s a good position to be in. How is it surprising. I mean that’s the thing. When you get out there and you speak to a lot of people you get things like that happening because it doesn’t happen all the time but it happens like once in a while you get surprised you get sick. I mean I got surprised when I was I just do the posts on my timeline about my program when I launched it and had someone they wanted to promote it to their audience and they did mailing to his audience look up Neal maybe 100 leads although I didn’t know it was going to happen. But if I hadn’t put it out there it wouldn’t have happened right now. So that’s the main point. If you don’t actually go and participate and enjoy with people nothing happens. It’s true. Now did that require I mean maybe it’s hard to step out of yourself for a second you know because everything I know for me when things happen that’s kind of like retrospectively you’re kind of like oh yeah this is sort of how it went. But at the time did you realize like when someone’s offered you like you know a deal for a $42000 sort of dictating the terms. Jane you’re kind of like sitting back thinking oh my god this is amazing. Does that require a shift in your in your mindset. Like where are you ready for that or were you like I can’t believe this is happening or I wasn’t ready because my mind set shifted shifted around in August about August or so I made my mind my preparation was I need to keep an open mind and not make a big deal out of anything right. I mean so it’s like whatever happens chill cooled down then it’s normal. I just think it’s just normal. You know like I said I don’t make a big deal because I really put a lot of work into making sure my emotions don’t get in the way of business. And it is really critical for me. Like I don’t want to get emotional about anything and I want to be sure that they execute and make sure things happen. So if I’m helping a client sometimes the client makes it complicated and it’s going emotional and I have to put him back in his place like I forget their emotions focus on this is what needs to happen to all the problem and sometimes that helps because people get emotional all the time. That’s true. That is very true. Now OK let’s go back to where like when you first invested in Russell’s course and he said it took a year you know. And he said you know when you were trying stuff out on your own and then you sort of came to that breaking point where you’re like I need help you know. So it was an event something that they all just took the call and I spoke with them. And when I took the call I didn’t actually really I decided that that was going to join. I wanted to talk with them and see if what they had was actually going to solve my specific problems or get me what I thought I needed at the time. That was it. During the call that’s when the the the rest of the breakthrough came in I realized like I mean it was time to get the action and do it. So it was basically before that. Do you think you’re sort of just where you just kind of. You just don’t know quite what direction to go in place. Yeah I think it was more like you’re always waiting for the right moment to realize is the right moment never really comes over. Right. Right. So that’s kind of what they say about having a baby or something like that there’s not very readily plan it’s very rare that someone plans to have a baby cry like let me plan I’ll have a baby in two years from now on my birthday. But yeah I mean it just happens and you deal with it then you actually end up realizing it was one of the best things that happen in your life. And I’ve seen it happen a lot with all kinds of stuff like single moms I’ve seen single moms the same right at the beginning of the leg is the end of the world if they’re going to be a single mom or dad. Turns out it isn’t and they actually love their kid and they’re happy. GM insists things change show when you think of the decision to actually act and change your life after you get used. It’s scary at the beginning so you get a bit scared at the beginning when you do it but once you get used to it it becomes natural and then it ends up if it was a good decision ends up being like the best thing you ever did in your life. And that’s really what happens because we’re surprised. So was it shocking to you how fast things moved once you sort of got that mentorship. Yeah it was it’s kind of less explained like scary in a way but I didn’t let my emotions get in the way because just an execution like what needs to happen then. Wow. How and where and just focus on getting things done. And that didn’t leave much space for me to get on the fears even though I still have like the friends everyone has like when something goes wrong or didn’t get in there like second guessing yourself like maybe I’m not that good you know like and they’re pissed off at themselves. But then if you manage to fix something everything’s good again. You know those rollercoaster going happens and every obstacle you get is started the second guessing and then the solve it and everything is fine. So I went through all of that but I tried to maintain just execution then still offering emotional things or any like making any judgments. So you just did you seek out any other resources for that in particular. Or were you just evolving as a person was evolving in all senses so I was improving the level of service level of solutions I offered not to be just something that I sell and that’s about it. It’s more like I have to make sure that my clients get that outcome. This is a question that comes a lot when people want to join my program and ask me how I like. How long is it the program is. Well it’s thing is there is no how long because some people might take longer or there’s less time. Depends how good they are depends on how much time they have depends on all the factors and there’s no way to guess it. So the only thing I can do is like the wind switch it’s my job to make sure you get to your goals. So you define your goals and then it is until you get to your goals and that’s about it. So I’m there for them until they get to their goals and that’s ends of the story. And that’s basically how I do it because that’s really the only way that makes sense to me. So I’m offering an outcome not a service. Before I used to offer services before I did the training I was more than just selling a service. So now you’re saying the outcome now is more outcome based. Yes. And had you gone through Gigantes I know Russ offers like sales training and stuff as part of his Thanks. You know have you gone through sales strings and stuff like that before. No it was my first time ever. Three of us and of course ever was my first paid course. But you went on and you pushed all in. Yeah I mean it just gets better and I just went through it looked like it was the right thing to do. And I thought like if I go for a cheap thing it’s probably not going to work. So I wanted to go with the proper thing and make sure that I get the support I’m in many of our God like you that it was really good. You know before I joined initially I thought it was just us alone doing everything right. Right. And then once I joined I was like all the crap does all these coaches and stuff like this just so I was pretty impressed by that and I thought awesome awesome. So now you learn about Facebook groups. Are you going in there like he said you are. Because it seems to be your kind of process. I’d like to research you like to dig in the stuff and know a lot about before you start up. You know go all in you know. So now you’re in these groups just seeing these conversations and I’m starting to realize that there are you know of course you’re going through the course of the same time on what you know are you starting to realize I know that you know these are my clients there all these people and some of these groups and then you know what sort of led to your coming up with a. Was it just sort of organic you decided I know about this. I make a comment and then people started to be you know you exchange ideas. I tracked everything so I know exactly where I was getting leads from. So it wasn’t like I was guessing or something. So everything that happened I put it on the Google sheet and I know what was coming from where what their income level was. I know everything about them pretty much. And with that I can see where which groups were the ones who had the best best results. Where did I get the customers from and from there. Then I just you know you take a conclusion so you look at OK most sales coming from this group once this comes from this group. I’m getting it a lot easier to get everything out of this group. So this is where I’m going to put my efforts. Pretty much that’s as. No guessing at all it was just like numbers and the numbers tell me where to go. So at that point when you were like did you start to think back to the beginning or did you strike it right from maybe the second week it was like this the first week. I remember it very well I had just on the first week I just went on with some comments that I wasn’t expecting anything I just let some comments just to explore a bit. And I went back to my normal life. And so I started getting like all I think was over the weekend I the comments on Friday or something like that. And then over the weekend there was about Sunday or Monday and then I went to like got all these people come in from that what I did on Friday. I mean this is pretty cool. So I felt like let me just see what happened that night when I read the numbers I looked my on my PMS the My sister had a friend request about like there’s like 20 people already. So I thought this is really very good. So I started to track I thought this is where tracking was the first thing I thought there was this is we’re tracking. I said up Google should put everything in there and every single person of the BME I put it in there their name they’re linked to Facebook profile and what kind of business they have. So I usually check their insurance or check for that or any links they have when they put the States. Like I talk with them yet. I spoke about it to get back with them or what happened. So did all that tracking. And then I started testing different polls different engagements to see what happened. I was more like one no. See what happens. RAZ I know now that I’m a different level I understand this is actually what happens on the high level as well influenzas do this all the time. They try different things all the time. Things get old really quick. So if you’re doing the same thing that everyone’s doing is not so interesting. So you’ll see a lot of that people trying different things different approaches different crazy things and they do that a lot that’s come on in social media. You know if you have advice for people that are out there they’ve never you know gotten any leads on Facebook groups so probably they may hang out in a lot of Facebook groups. But they’ve never really generated any leads. What sort of advice do you have for people who are maybe rethinking this. Listen to this. Nothing black on Facebook groups no one’s ever PM me ask me what the hell I do or whatever. You know what. What sort of advice would you have for them. The best one is on many of the groups there are promo days where people go and promote their stuff. So what is. So when most people see the promo they do know what they’re thinking they’re thinking I’m going to post the link to my business and talk about my business and what they are. Thing is everybody is doing it so nobody cares so much or so. So it’s that instead of doing that you actually reverse you’re like thinking OK there’s all these people boasting about their business. No look at that. That’s awesome. They’re actually doing your work for yourself right because now you see. Yeah they’re telling you if they’re a good customer for you or not I’m in fact damn that’s not how we think Bruno. I love what you do then. What do you do next. You see their promotional post to reply to their post and ask more about their business of course because they get that they’ll be like oh these guys you know maybe a line maybe is interested about something that could be you and then you get to talk about their business. No I mean anything can happen they might have a lead for them you might know someone who knows them that is useful for them whatever. Just keep an open mind and talk with people like people so people buy from people as they say. Man you’ve given a lot of value today. I have to say apparently you’ve been dropping all sorts of great content from people a lot of actual little tips. If people want to get a hold of you what’s the best place they should go and get a hold the call that can come on my Facebook group for example. Right. You might want to name that. Missing here. I just get the right name and I’m in the group as well so yeah. So it’s it’s like if all evolution generate leads on Facebook groups without advertising and your Facebook profile Bruno Domingo’s actually have more more of these actionable content on my group as well. I posted a few. I had one several ways I leverage Facebook groups to increase my reach. We’re talking about all these different ways to get it. Awesome awesome. You’ve really delivered here today and I knew I knew you would I could just tell by the kind of person you were in the way you were making comments and stuff and after following you for a while I’m really glad you made the time to come on the show. My pleasure. All right man. And everybody else hopefully will have somebody you know as insightful and live delivering as many actionable tips as Bruno did next week on the show. Until then. The post Episode #179 – Bruno Domingues On Using Facebook Groups To Build Your Network. Generate Leads And Sales Now Through Listening. appeared first on Drop Dead Copy.

In India, it is customary to work 12 or 13 hours a day. A year and a half in, he knew he couldn’t sustain that. Wanting to make some quick cash, he became acquainted with the world of… gambling. Six months later he was in deep debt and had lost his entire savings. He even had to borrow money from his parents. Deteremined to make his own way he took out a student loan and decided to finish his degree abroad. In Germany. It took him three more years to pay off his debt and student loans after he landed a job with Daimler. Determined to start his own business, he spent two years pondering an online course. He even talked to past students. Taking the plunge, it was only 6 months before he quit his job. In two years, he has built an explainer video company with 15 collaborators… and freed himself to work and travel wherever he wants. You could do the same by following his simple process for starting, growing… and finding the right people. In this episode, you’ll discover: The real reason Rohan had to get out of the corporate world. Is your work having a direct effect on these? How to make a small fortune by reaching out on these two platforms. A “dignified way” to get started selling your services. (Hint: It’s not “free”). One business-growing secret to ensure you’re working on the right projects. How to weed out 70-80% of job applicants right away and find the superstar “collaborators” fast. Mentioned: Rohan Kale Animated Explainer Videos Rohan Kale on LinkedIn Teamwork Project Management Software David Allan’s Make Words Pay Intro and outro backing music: Forever More by CREO David Allan: Hey, everybody it’s David Allan for makewordspay.com. I’m your host as usual. And we’re back with another exciting episode this time we have someone which could be very interesting I think because I don’t know if we’ve talked to too many people in this sort of niche and he sounds like he may be across the entire other side of the world and he’s going to talk about animated video work. And that’s one of the things that’s really interesting to me because I have endeavored to look you know it’s well known sort of in marketing that video of course is advancing every year. And also that the animated vs words and webinars and so forth are really have done quite well for people and commercialized. So let’s just jump right into it and welcome Rohan Kale to the show. How are you? Rohan Kale: I am very well thank you for having me on, it’s a pleasure. David Allan: Yes pleasure to have you on the show wwhere are you right now exactly? Roahn Kale: Right now I am in Germany to the south. David Allan: Nice. Nice. Now you do animated video marketing as I said and maybe we’ll start at the very beginning like we do we’ll all over again. Take us back. Where were you – where did you start where you come from you know and work as Way work worked your way all the way up through your stories we get an idea of like you know all the sort of bumps and bruises you took along the way to get where you are today. Rohan Kale: All right. So I am originally from India and I came to Germany around seven years ago. So in India I was having a typical cliche I.T. engineering kind of job. And I was there in one of the biggest companies. So. I realized that I wasn’t happy because it did culture did book culture. I guess it is like this you it’s very normal to work for 13 14 hours a day so looking like that for almost one and a half year I realized that this is not something that I want to do. I mean I was hardly 19 20 that died and I realized that this is definitely something that I cannot sustain over a long time. And I just started looking into ways to make some quick buck and I said OK. I mean without having any goals. I was like OK let me have some quick money and then I can start something up myself. I don’t know a lot but yeah I was taught something for myself. So I was introduced to the world of gambling and then there’s word that the court I got shit started happening. And the yeah I mean but then I beat it off six months and then it began just as bad. OK let’s let’s go. Well let’s. I’m so glad that that stuff got so serious that six or eight months down the line I just lost all of my savings and I was in debt and I had to literally borrow money from my parents. And that was that was such a horrible experience and it was a complete rock bottom for me. Then I started looking I just didn’t want to go to that job because I knew that this is not the right thing to do for me. So I started looking at the options. What should I do. One thing I knew for sure that I wanted to do my master’s I wanted to go abroad or be from India just to experience the outside world outside working culture outside culture and gender and that despair I decided to come to Germany. I mean most of the most of the people who wanted to do masters who were from my batch everyone was going to America. I did want to do that to be honest with you because I was my back was against the wall. I had I did not have any money so I had to do to be a student lot to come to Germany. So when he was little a little cheaper option for us. That was that was one thing. Bless the industry here is pretty cool. They the ME is good. So I said you know what. Let’s go to Germany. Yeah. That was one reason. The second reason my ex-girlfriend she was she was German before me so I read it together and we said let’s let’s think that’s the best thing to do. And I love that appear. But then when I came here in 2010 October it was all just it was a story I realized that I am like the lost boy in a complete and you would not like the like. Well it’s not like anything. Absolutely not think so that is that is that was like a clean slate I had to start everything from from the beginning. Let’s see. I do love the language. I did my school. I knew I had to put the hard work so I did that. I successfully finished my MBA and then I got a job at diablerie which is one of the best automotive industry automotive company. So I got a job there. I worked there for three years. I was successfully able to finally pay all my twice student loan everything. So I was like OK I’m. OK. But then during this time I realized that this is not so much satisfying for me because it’s in my mind you have this big corporate culture. There are so many systems and processes and you want to get something through need so many preparations. And I did not see how my work was directly and flattering the customers so to say. And I said you know I just should look at something else. So I know I said that OK I like the 5:26 now it’s really time to look into it seriously and decide that what I want to do it I should not just jump from here to there and again be unhappy in my next job. So I said you know just take a step back. What do you like. So I realized that something but I thought was animations and graphics so right from the right from childhood I said Is it possible to have a job or a business out of this. Right. Then I realized like wow ok. Like there is a lot of demand for this animation kind of deals. So why not just jump into it just try it. Then I learned a bit about animation of graphic design. I really started liking it and I said I mean I started it it my my job. I got quite a few clients along at my job. I said you know what. This is definitely something that I can’t scale at. I look forward to. So I quit my job. Yes I am two years down the line with the 50 people working with me so life’s good. Last year we brought that up rather quickly. Aha. So when you were you know because a lot of people I think listening to our show they’re freelancers they want to be freelancers most freelance copywriting. Now when you were at dimer and you started you know delving into animated videos and getting acquainted with stuff was you know any sort of saw that there was potential here. Did you sort of just take it as it comes and slowly build it up or did you decide you know at what point did you decide I have to jump off this and get serious about it. I leave my job aren’t let’s say do two and a half years inside my job. I kind of had a feeling that OK this is not US I stay and I both think definitely and I should I should find out a way to get out of here. So this is what I did. I started as I mentioned working Baddeley my eye. So to be honest I did not have any knowledge about online marketing and how to start a business online. So one of my mentors Mark is this name. So I got a course it’s called Secret Society past lives. I love it. I learned a lot about it that could be true. So it’s a very valid step by step course if you will. And this is where I learn about online marketing how to how to market your business your style how to do your Facebook email marketing basically all all the other online marketing world. And this is how I stop it. I mean I could I could but just that goes because because I was having a job so that definitely supported me. Yeah I mean it started going well and this is this is how it began. More or less no. Did you hear about that course just because you were exploring online auctions you were looking for something like that. I was looking at two discours two years before actually and it was just a very random thought. I was not see just die. But then you keep getting these letters. And I thought it was pretty cool. I I definitely saw the potential and that the testimonials were great. I talked to a couple of people who actually did discourse and it really sounded promising and I so I was I was off to my it’s that you know what this is I don’t have anything to lose. I mean I at least learned something because I don’t know and I think so why not just try it. So that’s how it began. And then two years. When did you do exactly jump into the course. It was the start of the two years before so to do and a half years ago it started. The course started six months outside the course. I was able to quit my job because I got my first client which was a pretty big big deal. I mean $15000 I guess. I remember that was the first line that I got so I was like it to be that Gore self plus make some profit down the line. I got some clients here and there and it was sustainable. So I said let’s do it right and sort of what ways were you when you got that initial client. What sort of ways were you. Are you cold calling people were you cold emailing people like what was your outreaching to different people who could be potential clients. Right. So and actually I used two platforms. One is Google Apps and so cold calling sort of called Coleambally and I used link them. LICHTMAN As an amazing platform I think. OK. So all I had to do was let’s say make my profile of mine. So initially I. So I need to I had to get some credibility so I just offered my work for free. And just an exchange with Steve on the other. Right. So that is how I got some credibility and then I built an isotope site I started with really let’s say Laura deals us all. So look at that slowly scale. Trump there. Right. You know who were the first people who took you up on those free deals with those like friends of yours were those people know off of LinkedIn who were those first people. Right. So these were people from LinkedIn I might add. I just I just sent them out and I said hey this is a new company I’m starting. I would love to do a deal for you. Just in all just an accent for a testimonial I would do the vidio at cost. I can give it to you for free because I have my own expenses. They took it took me up on that. And that’s how it began. Very interesting. Very interesting. And it only took you two and a half years to get to get out of dimer. Right. And so it’s an amazing amazing story. And you have 15 people working under you now. So I don’t say I love you I say it with me because it’s so great that even if I’d say yeah right with me. So it’s almost like more about the animated nature of the videos. Like that’s something I know it has done very well verging into sales in some way. Let me talk about a little bit about maybe you know because you didn’t really seem to have any background or graphic design or animation that you said. How hard was it to learn that kind of stuff because people I think of this notion that’s sort of a very involved process. Couric I as I mentioned I knew a little bit of it but I just got better working with my team to be honest I knew that my expertise was sales and marketing because I just thought I was doing. That is what I started. That is what my job was so I was good at that. I was good at talking to people making a sale for example and then I knew that I had to at least basic about graphic design or animations. And this is what this is what I learned by myself. I let’s say updos my team members I will update do. I don’t know much about that but I would like your guidance as well. So it was a really friendly kind of friendly nature of business. Let’s see. OK. So I built up my team slowly and I did yeah. So you went out and sort of found an animator basically right. Right. Right. That’s a good that’s a good way to do it. Say Yeah you know I mean it’s it’s always a step by step thing. I mean I just I found some I am not a good copywriter or rather I was not a good corporate. I think that I be right. So I got I just like this. I go out and I mean this like this I got graphic design just like this. I got a project manager. So it was all a collaborative effort. And where were you reaching out to find people like this that you thought were of the quality and stuff to you. So I started and I shall leave it up to work. That’s a very common platform up work or are freelance all these other platforms that I used at a be. Right. Yeah I found it to be honest. It’s not that easy to find people that were there who you can actually work with. So you have to have an extensive interview with those guys get to know them. I got out if everything works. I think why is. So. So that was the big challenge. But I like my guy and I’m so happy about that we still like to add on our relationships. Relationship gets stronger and stronger every day. Well that’s good. So the very first guy that you got who helped you with the animation aspect of it he’s still with you. All right. Excellent. Maybe you have some some tips and stuff about you know because I think there are some freelancers we have in our audience the stuff I’m sure that are already established and but there’s still a solo you know Premiership and they’re looking to expand. You know maybe have some collaborative team that’s like you said. What are some of the ways. What are some the questions perhaps are some of the ways you noticed that the best people sort of set themselves apart. We knew we had a winner when you were talking to somebody. All right. So this is what I’m just doing it it was actually taught and the course so many times what happens is. But I will post a brief about a joke for example. Most people just have a standard template that they copy and paste but in order to make sure that you have the let’s say candidate has a let’s say the brief very properly you with a sentence saying that OK if you have read this brief that the right word blue. Any other proposal is just an example. So it’s really more like a hidden message. Exactly. Exactly. So that kind of filters not just me on 70 or 80 percent of the people go. For it yeah nobody reads. No no no. I’ve been out. Yeah. Out of those 20 percent who are you and Manning you have a few interviews but then just give them a test project that people figure out if it’s working or not. I mean you might spend a lot of money from your pocket but just fine. But if you get the right lesson it is much more valuable in the long run. Definitely. But yeah I’ve heard some horror stories interviewing other people about people they thought would just seem amazing. They tested very well in the interview so to speak. But when the actual project was handed to them they just could not complete it. Right. You know so it’s an interesting sort of process of trying to expand the team. I mean sometimes that happens. Most of the time so I think that people are not bad. But you are just your nature is not a much of it your ideal candidate so you have to say OK fine. Good luck good luck to you and I’ll go find someone else. Yeah I think like Tim Ferriss you know of the four hour work week for our fame. I heard him talk once. I mean he said I think he called it the beer test. If he could sit down with somebody and have a beer with me you know if you felt like it was a possibility socially then you could probably work with them. Right. Right. Exactly. So you have to be at the city level and you have to think have to be an artist let’s say doing things that they want. There’s some mistake in there you just out. OK. This is what was told to me I will just do this. So that’s that’s not how it works. Right. So. Yeah. So you reached out to be a link to him you were called e-mailing people. Did that change at some point where it means you start get referrals or did your employer or their marketing practices to expand your client base. Yeah absolutely. So again these platforms LinkedIn for example I was I was like a typical educated marketer just sending some spam let’s say. Right. And I realized that this is not the way to go. I just started building a lot of relationships that that kind of was the turning point when I actually had a shift that my aunt might said if you will. And I realized that. I mean you have to you have to lead by giving value and this is how it works. I mean just think about it if someone comes and give you think that you are much more let’s say this broke it or C broke it is a frustrating process. Exactly so. So you just give something in return. This is how it works. And the more what I realized is the less you expect the better. So for example if I have to reach someone like that. So just just to get you how I work right now as the I decide on a let’s see list of product prospects for example. OK. I just set them up. So everything has to be personalized and it’s really effective. Right. So you have to start up with my request saying that I really like your work and I think I mean I love your work and if you’re up for it I just got back and see how it could be useful to each other if they accept your set of A-plus as my. Giving them a lot of value. So if somebody is from the let’s see if someone has a SASCO or is you just set a few articles or a couple of articles you’re just anti-d’s at bitches which is let’s say a mistake and really do and just just leave it out and say hey this is what I think is would be useful to you. Maybe if you want is some more information that I have if I can I can send it to you or we can have a chat if you’re up or it just isn’t on. I think I could actually help you a bit more so that people they respond better to this because it’s the very last thing that you think not the bulk spam that also the people spam. And so this is how it works I mean out of it went out of the text messages it just sent let’s say 50 percent people will accept because generally people do accept US allies. And out of these 50 if you let’s say that people buy from you which is why people buy from you but the last 45 you are you’re providing the value so that that where there is need for your service or your product they will come back to you because you have Delap that kind of relationship. Moreover there are others that you get just like this plus this. It’s amazing. You can. I mean there are times when you just are sleeping and next day you wake up I have to represent a pretty cool life. Yeah. It’s a good feeling. Yeah exactly. Exactly. So you do and then you’re doing all this online. Of course your routine first through e-mail and stuff. Maybe let’s get it and that’s a very interesting process. So that’s the one you started use today. So you still do it that way. Correct. Now maybe let’s get into some of the reasons why why animated video you know I post to you know live action or you or just word I guess you’d probably do words on the screen too but you know let’s get into some of the reasons why animated videos converge so well because it seems like in my experience at least and some of the guests we tried on they’ve been very beneficial Absolutely. So as you know that attention our engagement is the currency right now when it comes to online marketing and people are short on time. But I would come to your Web site. They will figure out the shortest way to get a lot of information. And what better way than a 60 second video or saw this video. It’s probably a let’s see explaining the benefits. That’s that’s the that’s the crucial I think better. It’s all about using your service or using your service or product and it should have a clear call to action at all. Management definitely ought to be in. Are you trying to say all these other things. These are the typical steps that you use for having explained or beat your beat because of but they can go why. I mean the vitality is not the thing that you can decide on. I mean if it goes right at it. But if it’s a means to your customer that they will definitely share with their their colleagues their their let’s say frontside or whoever is CEO is something that is affected by the media as well. And you get let’s say like there are more than 1 billion views on YouTube that people people have like 1 billion views on YouTube every day. So that is so much media content that people are actually consuming. Right. You can’t use this video is on email like via email marketing you can use you’ll see this letter you can how that movie deals you can have explained Riccio’s that starting October upside down you can have epic kind of videos. You can have videos at each and every spot of marketing people will put to the deal. And that’s why we see that video is sales accelerating too. So if somebody is actually attracted by your video they will go and read the stuff on the site. I keep an analogy all let’s see what we killer. So if a 60 second movie trailer is very engaging an intriguing idea or prospect maybe local They look at have watched that type movie and I sent him a hall. It’s the same way here. If they like they explain or they will go and ask for a product or a service that will for sure. This is very you got to have like a detail beat you it can’t last like five minutes diabetic’s because the customer or the prospect is already. What he is getting. So you have the attention of all that prospect. This is how that animation video is looking right now. Well I like to think about it too is like you know if it’s just like a traditional you know it was not a video let’s say it’s just a traditional sales letter and stuff you. You know there’s certain ways that I write sales letters and stuff and cupper to to make sure people tune in to read. But I have no control when it’s in print. You know I have no control over the fact that some people scam you know some people go to the end and day they hit the high points all cost. But in the video generally at least the ones I’ve watched You’re kind of a captive audience. Right you sort of have to watch it from start. And there’s no control buttons usually and so forth so you’re in a person who’s made the video or at least in other videos about has has full control over the sales process. Absolutely. You’re right. So visually engaging media is important but as you mentioned that clip art the copy of the video is the most important but that’s the heart of the deal. And both of them combined together and it creates the real magic at the con which are happenstance. Well I think you’ve given a ton of value here today. You do have a really intriguing story here. You’re doing very well for yourself. I know your parents are probably happy and you know maybe if people want to get in touch with you what are some of the places they can get in touch with the role. Sure there are two ways. There’s my website that’s w w w dot our college dot com. So our that’s the better we are Kayla dot com right so it’s arke a duck right. Or you can be in touch with me via LinkedIn. I am there. I check you regularly so it’s link that slide rule. Golly. Are you at a and a and e. By night 8. OK I had to write a if I. Awesome man. It’s been a real pleasure having you on the show. You’ve dropped some real knowledge it’s interesting to hear your story from another part of the world too. I think it’s a very interesting one and you’ve done some interesting things to get your grow your company to hire people to find clients. It’s been a pleasure. It’s my pleasure. Thank you for having me. I hope I helped a few people out there. Yeah I think you really have. And for everybody else of course next week we’ll be back with another exciting guest. So we’ll talk to you then. The post Episode #178 – Rohan Kale On Building A Company One Relationship At A Time. With Clients And Collaborators appeared first on Drop Dead Copy.

His parents provided the distinct foundation for what he does today. His mother was an art teacher. In college, his father took him to client meetings. When he claimed boredom as a kid, his mother pointed him to the crayons and stacks of paper. Later, in the corporate world, his skills grew while surrounded by other great artists. Rising tide lifts all ships as they say. When he left the corporate world at first it seemed like it was going to be a much tougher road… until a FedX package from Dan Kennedy landed on his doorstep. Email legend Matt Furey became his coach and Vince spoke at several Kennedy events. Everything was humming along untilt he recession years of ’08-10. Creditors were calling… Tax man wanted his money… He was in arrears for child support… So he contacted a former client and proposed something radical. A professional wager of sorts agreed. Neither Vince nor his client were expecting what was to happen next. It was magical… In this episode, you’ll discover: The incredible “nothing to lose” conversion wager betwen Mike and his client. (And the amazing results!) Two big reasons Vince leveraged involvement with “mentors” to get his business booming. (Besides getting actual coaching). Why it’s important to test, test, test. (The tweaking that led to a staggering bump over and above the orginal results). How to earn “big profits” using so-called plain or “ugly” graphics. How to manipulate your presentation when you can’t afford to do the whole thing “Vince’s way”. Mentioned: Vince’s Whiteboard Animation Videos Vince’s success website Vince’s books on Amazon David Allan’s Make Words Pay Intro and outro backing music: Forever More by CREO David Allan: Hey everybody welcome to another edition of the podcast- I have an exciting guests here today because when I was young I was really into cartooning and writing comics and actually I had a babysitter are mine who sort of got me into that because he’d written a graphic novel. And of course now we’re talking about marketing and we have Vicne Palko on the show today how are you doing Vince? Vince Palko: Doing awesome David, thanks for having me. David Allan: I can already tell it’s going to be interesting conversation given the technical difficulties of trying to put me in some kind of chokehold here already this morning. Let me take us back Vince because I don’t really know that much about you. I mean I see your website of course about a little research on you but maybe take us back to before you got into marketing what you were up to and sort of how you snuck your way into this. This varied and vast enterprise. Vince Palko: Sure sure. So I’ll take you all the way back to the beginning when I was a young kid. I had two passions to love loves the first being sports and second being Aardman mother was an art teacher. She taught me everything I know. The beautiful thing about having a mom who is an art teacher is she brings back pamphlets and history and things about different art to choose always sharing all kinds of different things like check out this sculpture artist. Check out this person. He wraps giant buildings. And so I was just exposed in the early age to a lot of different forms of art. In illustration. On top of that she was a tremendous those straighter and she would always illustrate her kids because she took off for a while raising kids and went back to school and in order to go back to school. She. Was certified so she had to draw a bunch of things and I just remember watching her illustrate my brother my older sister is laying out you know hanging out in the backyard and then just impressed upon me with what could be you know. And so I think as a foundational element she was huge in that. I also think my father played a big role because he and she sold Shaklee and my father was in refrigeration sales. So you know the whole selling and then watching him in college he would take me on these client meetings who are over lunch and I just got to see him interact with people. So that to really impress upon me what I’m doing now. And it’s it’s really really amazing that they both had influences on me and my life and my career. So of that answer gives you a little backstory or yeah that’s very interesting that you had such a strong influence on both sort of disparate levels like that. I think that’s very exciting. So when did you begin to draw or to delve yourself into art. Yeah great question so you know when we were little I would always complain to my mom already. I mean she didn’t say that just like a computer paper thing or she would have a big stack computer paper next to our printer and that was. And those holes along the side seat into the printer and she said see those you know Crans over there markers. You know you can create whatever you want and you can create your own little world if you want. And so I again drawing at an early age. You know I don’t know six seven maybe even earlier than that. I think that’s where it all started but I worked with a company that design like Fortune 500 learning tools for corporate education that their talent just escalated because I was in a room with eight other talented artists and you know all boats rise. You’re drawing 24/7. And I think that’s where kind of my my level skill level kind of ratcheted up. That was back in 99 and you are a ton from just other talented individuals. So yeah that’s very interesting to sort of have a collaborative effort and everyone is like an immersion situation is often something that produces really good results. So you went from there to When did you discover sort of direct marketing and you know who who was your first sort of outlet into that world. Yeah. So. So back in 2004. 2005 it happened concurrently. But I remember you know getting somebody in Kennedy’s information I can’t remember where or when I was introduced to that world and immediately began you know became transfixed with direct response and right around that same time my mentor met Hillary. I had been tracking him and following him with his fitness stuff. I’m big into fitness as well. And he offered a coaching program that overarching program on fitness and marketing. You know I learned from them as well they are the most amazing part was when I left the corporate rat race the first day I laughed my way back home I go you know I had his magnetic Dan Kennedy make it Mark he told a story of this guy who down on his luck he’s trying to make all these sales and you just can’t make a sale and you know he goes back home and he tries to back out as he doesn’t have a sale yet. And so I thought no. Wow it’s free I’m finally free and I have the opportunity to drive into like a strip mall walked up to a fitness guy that had no alternate outlet or told him so my books tried to explain. So that’s what I was doing. He looked at me half nods goes back a cartoon marketing trick. I just remember going back to my car a little dejected. Oh you know this is going to be tougher than I thought. But I pulled back into my weight go up to the front stoop there on my doorstep is FedEx and UPS from somewhere out in Arizona and I open and it’s third from Bandi inviting me to illustrate his next book. I know the management of people and profits. And we want to lead to several thousands of dollars and bought a great ocean and relationship. We worked together since then. And here’s my mother standing on my front doorstep Rocky post in the sky like this is the sign that I made the right decision. And so that’s kind of how I got into the whole marketing stuff and kind of that background. That’s interesting you know that you’re following Matt Furey remember how you heard about him. You know a friend of mine. That I consider a mentor. He came back from a fury event and he was never forget the company I was working with he came in and he’s showing us all these Hindu squats Hindu pushups. I remember going what’s this all about. So I think I got an email list from there. And then you know you offer coaching programs from there. Right. Right. Awesome awesome. So I bet I talk quite a bit now which is really fun and cool in so we stay connected that way and he’s a great friend and mentor still. Yeah it’s funny. You know the first sort of Internet marketing thing I had come across was his original email course which I think was called like Emperor or email or something to that effect. Yeah. And that’s where I first learned to write emails. So I’ll be on his list on his. So that’s interesting. Yeah. We’re dating ourselves perhaps a little but it’s interesting that you started that way as well and of course like people like to say all roads lead to Dan Kennedy one way or another. And so you’ve been working with them ever since those are your cartoons on those no B.S. books. Yes. And then you know we just finished up another round of cartoon comic cartoons for the upcoming event. So yeah we stay connected. It’s cool. So once you sort of you had the Dan Kennedy opportunities sort of volunteer your lab be a Fed-X to your front porch. What other things were you doing. Did you start doing what did you do any local stuff from there. You know kind of like you said you walked up in the sky and it’s going to be harder. Or did you just use that down outlet to sort of further your business. Yeah. Great question. So essentially one engine joined man mass group coaching group. I. This is really where things stand and everyone found out about me but I had done. He wanted to reduce like a Charles Atlas theme but more modern with his brand and his style. That became the first entertainment strip that he used in ads and used in his books and things like that. And so from there it was you know he just introduced me to everyone in his coaching. And that became a main source of the business. And then you know then it spread from there. But it was really through fury and then I just opened it a few Kennedys events that you know that was another form of income coming in along with you know just building my list slowly but surely. Know. So that’s kind of how it all took off. But just like any good story still. So I set that up for you. And here comes the drama people buckle she belts to tear that one up. Yes. So this was awesome Celene long term. And then business 0 8 0 9 and 10. It. Got real challenging at least that was the excuse I used. Now this was a recession thing kind of dumb idea. Yeah yeah I think it was the end for whatever reason. You know the business hadn’t really changed so it was time for a change and you know right around that time I worked with another guy called his name is Mike theory if anyone has heard of him. He’s got a pretty successful Web site called truth about abs. And. We had done some cartoon headers for him where he saw a bump in sales based on taking down a sexy pair of a woman’s abs in a male abs. We put up the silly cartoon of him holding a couple bottle dumping out pill bottles and saying you know here’s an alternative to that he saw like eleven point five percent by just replacing his head or twice why it had his attention. And I went back to him. I don’t know like a year later. This was early 2011 and said Mike we can visualize your whole sales presentation because at that time David I don’t know if you know if you’ve ever experienced a cycle in your business but it got horrible. And you know I had creditors call in the house I was in arrears with back child support. The tax man was after me but the pitchforks were at the door so to speak. Yeah. Yeah. In having an irate ex-wife is not a pleasant thing to experience for anyone really. Yes specially when you go into business and you want to take care of your kids you want them take care of your family that’s the driving source. I it. It was a pretty challenging time. The big ole monkey on my back and that’s when I went to Mike and I said hey we can visualize your whole 50 minute sales presentation. And he said well your time out like cartoons and a PowerPoint. I said no we can actually you know me and you know everyone wants to know where the influence came from. There’s a little bit of the U.P.S. guy or a few them. Yes. Yes. Those ads I mean. Yeah. And then if I am true to myself and everyone else you got to give them good props to the company that was overseas they were doing like ted talks and things of that nature. No one was in marketing and advertising doing what we were doing like. Right. So you know I brought it into that with Mike Eury and essentially since no one else had done it. We had no basis for its value. He he said I don’t want to pay about whether you want to charge me. And I told him I don’t want to do it for what you’re asking. So we agreed on some upfront development costs and he said If beat my control by 10 percent or give you a large chunk change by 20 I’ll double it. Q Is there a game on the one that point to your really had nothing to lose and nothing to lose. You know in the end really. Exactly. I you know not a ton of business coming in. And you know so I said let’s do it. So it’s just me my crappy camera behind me with my crappy little easel that my parents give my case for Christmas one year and just do all I can do where I was and so I filmed this in this film and it brought it into a movie and two days a week we had something up and ready but it was so magical What happened next. I mean it was one of those things where you never would have guessed what might happen. And I always like to play this game David with folks we didn’t need 10 percent we didn’t write 20. What do you think we beat up by a guy. Obviously it’s more than those so I’m going to say Twenty nine percent bang and Mike wouldn’t be happy as a clam with 29 percent because he’s driving major amounts of eyeballs on these pages. Right. So just so everyone knows the control is a PowerPoint presentation with narration. So you’ve seen the bouncing ball over the text of thing. Right. We stripped out the audio put it into Nanteuil we didn’t do it by telling me by 20 to be by 40. We beat it by Eighty five percent in that first swo rush then my being like meaning me we split test and we did it in some work. He saw another 268 person. All three times his whole campaign so you know he was making I think you’re your audience. Audience I don’t believe it well you say making over a million a mark somehow. $49 PTF with ourselves crazy and the rest as they say from their history make a bunch of different industries and a bunch of different countries and places all over the world. So. So that’s a very interesting hearing. Those are massive massive results. I mean 268 percent bump on such a low priced product too it just was crazy. You know he must have been super happy obviously you got paid. Yes. Nice chunk of change after all that. I was reading that I would get a royal is actually less alert here. That’s it. That’s amazing. That is a very like you said a very magical outcome. That’s right. You know you see rarely rarely. So I said What do you think. You know I’m looking back now of course we’re in a different time now where the advent of video and video sales letters and webinars and so forth are sort of like I guess it’s commonplace but it’s certainly more popular. And back then of course nobody was really like you said nobody’s really doing that yet. What are sort of the things you think you know animating it. And you know what what does that bring. Why why did it create such a such a furor. If you want to call it then. So I have my beliefs around this and essentially you know along with the Kennedy fury and Russell Brunson and all these guys taking coaching from I’ve also studied copywriting and you know become a student of bad loans every other direct response marketing principle. What I’ve learned in those early classes is you know the headline creates curiosity drives people to read the first sentence you get to read the first sentence you read all the bullets and read all the bullets. Guillory one or two sections and before they make a decision an order button curiosity is huge. And so with our ad tools the hand telling the story they hand taking it from a wire blade windscreen pulling it in. Curious to see how the scene is going to build out. What is going on. You know it’s just like watching someone build a sandcastle in fast motion and you want to see how it turns out. Right. That becomes the vehicle for sharing any message with share. So they kind of drop their guard down so to me and you can fill in whatever message you want to do with that. The real interesting thing there David is we tried when when colorizing seen it was you know the buzz around coloring animation and sorry I come Saturday morning cartoons in animation. Right. Yeah. We did a similar thing we did the split test kind of like we did with some of our own work in our own promotional videos. I mean you know straight out audio put it into a color and two and which do you think converted better in three fourths of the test that we ran. Well it sounds like the gist. Given the way you set it up it sounds like the black and white one one. Yeah yeah. For whatever reason we get higher resolution scores we get more people sharing more people liking to get more leads come through. Then the caller intimation that I’ve got a belief of why that is as well. Yeah let’s hear that. I’d love to hear that because it’s very interesting. So we go back to the guard that people have up so you know it’s out on one of the polished videos that are slick and they have all color you’ve got all this stuff going to feel like that where they hand telling the story and coming across the screen. It could be and we’ve had people say clients of our clients have said to them hey we thought you were just that you know we were drawing this out. We did. Right. That was a person. Yeah. So it’s a little more intimate little more. I would say the less the fashion look is the stuff that we do. It’s all custom and it’s all detail to the story that we’re telling. But they’re not as high gloss if you will as other information wish it was a good thing because if we get highroads scores on Facebook more people sharing them. Obviously users get higher or lower cost. We have to put out there too. Right. So now what we’ll do from time to time is you know you know if someone can’t afford the entire 20 30 minutes be all done and tunes will break it up so that you know part of it is Powerpoint and the other art is animation. Gotcha. Because you know pattern interruptor the pattern of this cartoon is to see think you’ll be surprised. I mean there are so many industries that have never heard of this before we go to trade shows and I’ve never seen this or Yet people in direct response seem right ears. But you know it’s still pretty new and novel to all of the niches that are out there. That’s great. Now people want to get a hold of you personally maybe they’re interested maybe have a company out here that’s Listen to this and think Wow that you know that might Gary 268 bumpa I can just get a fraction of that I’d be on my road to riches. How can they get a hold of you where should they go. Yes. If you go over to the dot.com ADT Oh and this dot.com and essentially click on the consultation tab in the upper right. That’s probably the best way. It helps me see who you are and see if we’re a good fit or not. There’s a few questions answer there. You know like I said before we don’t take everyone in there. We were looking for a good fit on our end just as well as I’m sure your audience is looking for a good fit on your list. And you know that’s the best way you can also call our number 4 1 9 8 4 1 3 0 3 0. And you know get in contact with us that way then we can line up time to chat and talk about your business brainstorm you know potential stories and then get the writer on the phone and take it to the next level. It’s really a fun fun process when they goes through it. Loves it. They know it’s fun to kind of get yourself out of that mode of OK here are qualifications here’s all our success through the years and really get at the meat of what is it that our prospects want. What are the pain points. What are there. You know what’s going to keep them up at night. If we could put that into a story that grabs their attention pulls them out of their daily routine and gives us their undivided attention for two or three minutes. People give you all the time in the world if you’d rather tension that first you know 30 to one to two minutes and take it from there. So awesome. That’s great. Whether that is true and such as I really want to thank you for taking the time to come on the show today. It’s been a real pleasure hearing about your success and hearing about the stories that have led to that success. Yeah. Yeah thanks so much for having me. David this was really really fun. Appreciate it. Awesome. And for somebody else listening now will back hopefully with a technical glitch free edition next week. That would be great for my end. And we’ll talk to everybody. The post Episode #177 – Vince Palko On Cartooning Your Way To Unbelievable Conversions appeared first on Drop Dead Copy.

Harlan Kilstein, a dynamic copywriter known for his rapid success and boundary-pushing strategies, shares his inspiring transition from education to entrepreneurship with a hypnosis clinic. He reveals the secret to modern copywriting: ditching hand-copying in favor of innovative approaches. Hear how he discovered powerful ad techniques through mentorship, which skyrocketed his earnings to over $300,000 in his first year. Harlan also discusses the art of adapting winning sales letters across niches and the importance of continuous learning in mastering the craft.

Trevor Crane grew up poor and struggled when he left college. He couldn’t seem to figure it out for himself. That’s when he put his ego aside… humbled himself… and asked for one simple thing… HELP. With the aid of a mentor he was on his way to miking his first million. Then 2 million. When he finally took action on the advice he’s sharing in this podcast… it had been 20 years coming. His goals grew and spread to his daughter. At only 7 years old she took the advice Trevor had failed to take himself for so long, and now she’s 10… staring down a 7-figure future. SO stop what you’re doing, take the 20 something minutes to listen to this podcast. Then take ACTION. But only if you want to add another zero to your income this year. In this episode, you’ll discover: Add an extra zero to your income in the next year. (Both Trevor and his wife did as soon as they created this one element). How to “business” like a 7 year old. The massive action of Trevor’s daughter should destroy your excuses. Do it now! Free book offer lays it all out. The questions you need to answer and even when to start marketing. Ideas are great but THIS is where it’s at. One strategy separates the successful from everyone else. The #1 secret of getting the most from a mentor. This one quality allowed Trevor to skyrocket his income. Mentioned: FREE “Big Money” Book Super Kids Books Tony Robbins David Allan’s Make Words Pay Intro and outro backing music: Forever More by CREO David Allan: Hey, everybody! We’re back with another edition of the podcast. I’m David Allan your host as usual we’ve got exciting guest on the show here today. His name is Trevor Crane. He’s got to teach you all about books that you can write. And this is especially important for our freelance copywriters out there. I would say this is a way to position yourself really for any business person is going to write a book. I was going to grant you all sorts of experts status authority and without selling any books you can to build a build your business. Trevor Welcome to the show. Trevor Crane: Man I’m excited about it. David Allan: It’s awesome to have you on the show. I’ve read a little bit about you and some of your stuff listen to your podcasts. You have two podcasts right? Trevor Crane: Yeah I’ve got two I’ve been having fun. One what you said you talked a little bit off air that one was inspired by my grandfather passing. And the last letter he ever wrote for me and that one’s all about becoming your best and living a great quality of life and taking your life and business to the next level. And then another one is all about you know a race to 7 figures. So those are pretty cool but let’s not confuse everybody with more of my broadcast. Because today we’re going to talk about books and what those things can do for you and obviously you’ve written a great number of them. I don’t know how a total But you’ve written a number of books and those really helped build your business. Well ten books not not two not. Not that I’m counting but I’ve got to time that are all best sellers and as much as I’d love to brag about that. I think it’s more appropriate to share with everyone. It took me over 20 years to publish my first book. So I failed at getting this done for quite some time. And I used to think books were as much as I knew they were bad ass and I wanted to write them what was 20. You know I thought I failed. I thought I could do it. Also you know I’m like I could write I can write a sentence. I mean what’s a book except a series of sentences. I mean I screwed it up and I had it on my new year’s resolutions for list for years and I was just so frickin sick and tired of jack up and I would jack up the process and deluding myself thinking that I’m building a book and legacy and stuff when just I didn’t get it done so I had to swallow my frickin ego and pride and everything else. And I finally just found a mentor and said Brother can you help me do this. Like how do I write the rifle. I make money with it how do I go my business cause I keep getting confused before I pull the trigger. And so like I didn’t spend time on it in those trying good it was just like a whole bunch of masturbation instead of creating babies. Well that’s great way put it aside now let’s go back before like you said you took you 20 years to get your first book published. What were you doing before you got into what you’re doing now writing books as this where did you come from. OK so you know I was born a poor black child just an bartons. But I am I’m a poor white kid. You know I grew up in Arizona and my dad was a horse you were in and I was always my biggest fear was that I wouldn’t amount to anything and that you know we just we were poor. I was the poor kid is it like in my world you know my mom made my clothes because we didn’t have enough money sometimes for things like clothes. Get out of hand me downs and now I’m just more embarrassed that I was such an ungrateful little shit that didn’t like appreciate how my parents hustle their asses off so no I grew up with with a lot of fears and I wanted to go to school to go to business. I went to Arizona State so I got to learn business because being broke saw there wasn’t snow in Arizona so I had to walk uphill in this in the sun any ways though. I don’t know the story. It was 120 degrees sometimes at night with no AC and I’d beat up when I was in high school. My parents had broken up in all kinds of drama in my childhood but I remember one night I was so frickin I could it was so hot I couldn’t sleep so I would go I went running in the desert until I was so friggin exhausted that I could go back to the house and just like crash because there was it just sucked man. 120 at night. Food fight. Mike KOHONA is off. So when I went to school I studied business and when I started business I mean I still you know I thought I did my best. I was not the brightest crayon in the box. But I I was able to to work hard you know and do graduate and go out and struggle in business. And I found my secret which was I hired cool people to help me succeed. Like as creative as I thought I was. Like I just there was no reason to reinvent the box I mean I kept trying to but I basically hired my first mentor when I had a watersports business of all things. I had a parasail operation in Naples Florida I’m in my 20s. And I finally figured it out. I hired a mentor and I finally made my first million dollars and my mentor just hook me up they’re like hey man don’t do that oh my god I’m going to do that. I was out with the parasailing company. I made my first million ever that was over a series of years that’s me being very generous saying that I think you’re gross receipts. I finally did well I had another company in a business that was an environmental protection company. And the same thing. Like I said I found a guy to mentor me and lo and behold when he started making a million bucks so did I when he made two million bucks so did I look like it was just like I can follow a frickin recipe but apparently I came out of my own. I know that’s very honest though it’s very honest. Well I had some successes because I was coachable and hungry as hell and that was kind of like my secret sauce. That’s what helped me figure out how to publish books. And it was really just one day out of a frustration standpoint. My first book mentor was someone who didn’t write his book until he was going through chemo treatments and wasn’t sure he’s ever gonna be there for his wife and his son and was like whew what am I leaving behind. And when he told me his story personally I was interviewing him on one of my podcast greatness quotes. And I was interviewing him and I was like man my excuses seemed pretty paltry compared to like you know I was too busy or I was too stupid. Who would ever want to follow me. I filed a $2 million bankruptcy at one stage that sucked and I’m like who’s ever going to want to listen to me ever again. And I went back to my old pattern of just asking for help and I found someone I could hire. He helped me and he turned his first book he wrote his first book on his cancer bed. Between the times when he had enough sanity between times he was vomiting into a bucket or his hair was falling out. He pulled out his iPhone and transcribed his first look into his phone. OK that was transcribed. It turned into a best selling book and he made seven figures behind that book. And then he did it again. And then he did it again. And then I think the measure of a mentor is whether or not not if they can do it but can they help others and he helped a lot of other people do it. And I was like dude like why don’t I just help this guy. And again like I started with I had to swallow my ego in my arms for coolness to ask for help. And lo and behold you know there’s a formula and I follow it. And now I have a publishing company that helps people do that and more and better. I think it started from there so some successes and a lot of challenges and now I’m all bragging again because you got the mike yachters 10 years old now and she has nine bestselling books and all of my clients had this vision that all my clients get a bestselling books and grow big business behind them. So for your audience of people who do some writing you’re wondering like why should I publish a book now. Right. A challenge everybody. Think of the most money you’ve ever made and write it down like the most money you made in a year. Because my wife and I added a zero to the back of our income when we finally published our first books. I published one and she published one with my mentors help. And then we added a zero. So if you like a zero on the back of your income you know I don’t know this is your most money earned year in the past but put a zero on the back of it. If you have the right formula you can for can do it. And I think you’re making a difference when you’re making money because that gives you more abundance to really help. All that stuff. Wow that’s a powerful story. It says a lot about mentorship which we’ve preached a lot on the show and off the show and some of my other endeavors in fact I’m writing a book right now. So this is pertinent to what I’m up to at the moment. So let’s get into that stuff maybe because you have sort of two brand new books that cover sort of two aspects of this. The same idea so maybe you know take it where you want it but let’s get it let’s dig into this. Decimeter OK so you know so my two new books and I’m going to give one of them away as a gift to your audience today. Awesome. The first book and this is a cool one because it’s about making money with your book title is called Big Money with Your book without selling a single copy because I think the confusion for a lot of authors is that there are a lot of soon to be authors is that like how do you make money with the book and we think we need to be J.K. Rowling and like in books and that’s a pain in the ass quite frankly. You can do it and I have clients like figure out how to sell thousands and thousands of books which is awesome but the average book sells less than 2000 copies. So like why bother. So you need the right plan. So this is for phenomenal book. You guys can pick it up if you go to epoche author dot com forward slash MC is in the McMath’s. I’ll create a custom link for that so everybody can get the book and I’ll send you that as a physical version for free. You get the ebook on it as well so yes of shipping and I want to help everybody as well. If you get that book and you got to get it soon I’m going to get two tickets to an event I have coming up called epic Oscar summit and the purpose is the book I’ll get you all fired up which is awesome and it gives away everything I don’t hold anything back from how do you make money with your book. But I know that ideas are one thing but implementation is everything. So the intention. It’s basically a thousand dollar bonus on the back end of the book if you just cover the freakin event and then I’ll help you and my publishing team will help you figure out how to do this and implement it. So that’s kind of cool. I didn’t even tell you that brother. Yeah that’s cool. Super cool man. But as far as like big money with your book without a single copy the focus of that is to is what does make money like what is it. Is it the book. And I’ll give you an example of my daughter because one of the reasons why I helped my daughter read a book was that I was pre-chewed for a while. Everybody should write a book. And I’m like OK well everybody that includes my daughter says she was seven and I said honey what do you want to write a book about. And I’m a pretty positive guy. You know I’ve got a great quest podcast. In that we do positive stuff and I’m like what’s doing this to a positive empowering book. You know she wanted to write a book about the three Ninjak kids I saw a book on your site. Year three and educate them like I’ve never even heard of this before and I can tell you standing at the refrigerator I just remember it like it was yesterday. And I knew she was making up this on the spot. And like I try to be a good dad. You know I was like oh right honey what. Tell me a little bit about the story and so as she told me about it pulled out my phone and I handed it to her and she started to tell me the story of the three kids that transcript of that audio recording turned into her first book. And then as a business I had to figure out how on God’s green earth am I going to turn my seven year old daughter’s a book about Ningi Katey’s which was I knew a story she’d made up on the spot. How am I going to turn that into a business. So what we decided to do was to sell a book a kids book for us on the back end. So we have a free membership site on the back of her books saying join super kids books. You know if you go to super kids books Dot com is for kids books dot.com people could your site get a free book. There’s a free book there they could get a free book. They join the Free Book Club. So there’s a value add. But go get the next book. But everything we did around the book was around this new idea of helping people of helping kids publish books because I figured my daughter can do it in other kids. So the Course behind it I asked my daughter this question because she was kind of confused and she doesn’t care about business. By the way it was play and that’s about it. I asked her why she did want a new laptop though and she filled out the laptop she wanted cost a thousand bucks and I said all right honey. How many books do you need to sell to make to make a thousand bucks and let’s say she makes $10 a book which is generous you probably make more like a buck a book. But Rose bucks right so she did the math and you got to sell a hundred books 100 times 10 equals a thousand. I’m like right. If we sold your kids book writing course that we did together at the time it was an idea we sold we sold for 100 bucks. How many would you have to sell. It’s like wow 10. And so I was at Honeywill which would you rather do we’d rather sell 10. Did they give you books or would you write or write a book and get their parents to pay 100 bucks so you can go get your new laptop or do you want to find 100 kids to do it. And she’s like me she’s my daughter so she’s like. I want both. And I’m like You’re my daughter that doesn’t play with the secret of big money with your book is understanding how to write the right book. You know so that you give it to people who want more from you see the book is the beginning. And most writers especially creative types and I’m extremely guilty of this. We get all excited about our message and the story we want to tell. And it’s still a story about your ninja kiddies or chocolate or Meck or Earth and Mars. Anything you’re in right is it doesn’t matter or success you know and we think that people are going to care about that book. And we hope they do. But most people buy books and they don’t read them. I mean you know so we get all caught up on I don’t know what the subtitle be. And it’s important. Your title is subtitle and cover and description and page 77 needs to be bad. Esther nobody is going to want to consume your stuff. But but I own all of Tony Robbins books rather. And I’ve never read one of them. I mean you skim them to get them. I mean I’m proud of them I can look at it on my bookshelf and be like oh look at that money again. But I bought them all and I don’t know what is Tony get on a book a book you know because that’s about what you get. So he made a dollar. So my own five of his books or something. So in that box what I have given him two hundred and fifty thousand dollars on the back end to go to all of his events and programs in fact he was just in New Jersey and he had the biggest event ever in like these in the North America. He had 15000 people at an event and I bought like five tickets for a thousand bucks because I went with my wife and myself. Some of our clients are friends and like that. So I get. Which would you rather have drive offs. You know because you sold me all five of your books or would you rather have five grand. And that’s a tip of the iceberg because that event he says Do you want to buy more of my shit and I will and I when I was broke out of brokenness and I went to my first Tony Robbins event about 15 years ago by the way he was in Jersey. I took a one I took a flight from Florida to Jersey to go to see Tony Robbins and I had planned on going to his events and and cheating him. I was like I’m going to go to half of it and then I’m going to get a refund. As I’ve already listened to tapes I mean you know I don’t need do it. You know what I did I was broke. I only had like a thousand bucks on my card and I put all that on there for the ticket. I plan on getting my money back. And at that instead of the event the event was the beginning and in any overdelivered and he made me want more I got hungry for more. Even though I was broke so broke I couldn’t buy a sandwich on my credit card. You say you want to buy my bigger ticket and it was 10 grand. Get it Tony Robbins University. And dude that must be opportunity calling right. Yeah I think so. I don’t know. That’s got to be totally wrong. Well just like you were trying to steal from the Masters. Tony Robbins Boffa but follow up with Tony if you’re listening I had nothing to do with it. Well I didn’t. I spent I found from ferkin somewhere. And that’s a cool story but not necessarily just talk about today but I found I found the money I mean I was able to I filled out a form I handed it in. I’m like dude I don’t know how I’m going to pay 10 grand to go to your next event. I didn’t talk to Tony directly by the way but there’s somebody there and I figured it out in the next couple of weeks I hustled my ass off and such and magic happened and I figured it out and everything changed. What the book or the event or whatever it is is this thing we get all caught up on and we think that’s the end all be all and it’s not the real money is what’s beyond your book that’s really about all those are only the front end with you so marketing as you getting them into your world. And then you know follow up with something else that has a Tony did has a much higher ticket value. Well let me ask you David what what what’s your new book about in like what’s the back end on that or have you thought about that. Yeah. Really the kind of the same idea. My book is about I sort of have a systemized way to ferret out where people are leaving money on the table in their business. Mm hmm. And so that’s what it’s going to be about the different places. But he hides in your business and then the back end is basically consulting and eventually it will be courses. All right. Well then I got called Bad ass for you right. OK. Excellent. Right. Now everybody can use this today so I hope people now I work with mostly speakers coaches consultants and a lot of business owners and I. My mission is to help a thousand new authors publish their book make them bestsellers and build a big business behind it so. So let’s everybody today can begin and you can begin any advice I’m about to give you is something that people pay good money to be like hey can you help me. And this is what I say is your marketing and book writing and making money these things are not mutually exclusive. You don’t have to be Ernest Hemingway and go write your words and take a sabbatical to get this shit done. It starts with today and gave a date you you mention on the podcast that you’ve got a new book coming out. Like that’s the beginning the beginning is to admit you’re doing it you know make the declaration to the world. Draw a line in the sand in a scary shit. People come to me and they’re like man I don’t want to tell them until I have a cover I don’t want to tell them until I got it written I don’t want to tell them at the table Konitz I want to tell them. And we’re beat. We don’t live in that world anymore. We live in a world where marketing begins when you menue state declaration. My daughter and I started marketing her course before it was available. You guys should start your book before it is before it exists. I mean the iPhone eight thousand hasn’t come out yet but they’re certainly going to be the newest baddest thing so take a lesson from billionaires. You know Elon Musk said hey guys you can buy a Tesla. It’s gonna be awesome. It’ll come out sometime in the next couple of years. And AG sorda have a prototype. Not really maybe kind of sort of basically a cost stage. Guys want to buy one. You can preorder it today so you begin with the declaration phase. Everybody today can start the marketing and the most powerful part of your book whole process to build authority. You said David when we started this call you know how do you do that. You start off by not being scared. You start off by being proud and say I’m writing a book. And even if you don’t know what it’s going to be about that’s OK you’re like hey I just got off a podcast with this publisher and he said Hey my message matters this dumb ass was it you know because there was a warning bell apparently and he failed for 20 years to do it. I’m talented I’m creative and he said that I can do it in this day and it makes for good money in hopes other people daughter did then make a declaration today and say I’d read the book. Yeah I think that’s one of the biggest things so far on this podcast is your daughter on the I mean your daughter is how old now. She’s 10 and she has nine bestselling books in her mission is to help 100 kids become authors. And I actually have a for profit part of my company where everything on the front end you end up if you buy something from me you donate money to charity for kids in need. My daughter loves to donate toys. And then sometimes we’ll travel and feed families and things like that. And we’ve done that a few different times but we have a front end that if anything you buy for me and goes to kids in need. And we have a little foundation we’re probably going to start so we can start collaborating those efforts. But everything is mission focused and making a difference and changing the world one kid and one book at a time. In any of my new clients they basically sponsor kids to go that they don’t know it necessarily always will be on the free books to kids that’s the sign up. And then we enroll them you’re basically get a scholar kids get a scholarship to come to our book writing course but they can attend an. Yeah it’s bad ass. So you or your daughter 10 year old daughter she has nine best selling books and none of us should have any excuses this time. All right. Excellent excellent. Wow. This is just flown by. This has been a great interview. You know a lot of value I’m sure will have people scrambling to write their books and learn how by getting the free book that Trevor offers. And if you go to you go to EPIK author dot com forward slash and see that’s where we’ve got our free book promotion and I’ll send you a physical version of the book you’ll get an e-book. You have to pay for shipping on the back and you get a thousand dollar bonus because I know you implement this stuff and I’m probably never going to do this again. These are tickets to my event that is going to change everything for you. And if you’ve got a book you need to be there and if you’ve yet to write your first book you’ve got to be there because you can build the right team of mentors together and the team to help you promote your book and make a lot of money with it. I believe that your money and your mission are are in alignment. You know your money your bank account is the adult report card. If you don’t like what’s in your you know then you need to find ways to shift the work. Money comes from other people man you got to find more ways to help more people get a lot of money in your bank. That means that you’re you’re you’re helping the world. I’ve yet to meet a lotta evil shady people. I mean people who are trying to do the best they can and they do like other people and they’re trying to be cool to others. You know I know there are jackasses out there. If you’re a jack ass and screw you you and being allowed to come to our picnic. Most people are bad ass and they want to make a difference and help others. And I bet you that every fricken person listen in right now. And you know just do it. Thanks a lot man. That’s been great. Your address. Go back get your free book. Learn how to do this properly. Find out exactly the people that you’re targeting exactly. You know what the book should contain and everything a cover. Rhonda thank you for coming on the show today. It’s been epic. You’re great you’re entertaining your funny and your knowledge was a real help for me personally because I’m in the midst of this myself so I’ve got a few new ideas as well. Awesome brother. I’m glad to. Glad to help and I can’t wait to see you face to face. And every other bad ass to listening at my event. Join me at epoche author summit. Pick up the book for free. And if you think it sucks you can leave me a great one star review. Drop us a new A-hole that’s fine. If you think it’s bad ask which I’m sure you will then it will change everything for you. Awesome. And for everybody else listening that’s another additional podcast hopefully will be back again with another guest. As exciting as funny and as energetic as Trevor until the. The post Episode #175 Trevor Crane On If You Do Nothing Else This Year…Take Action Now On The Advice In This Podcast! appeared first on Drop Dead Copy.