In this episode of the Profound Podcast, I engage in an insightful conversation with Richard Steele, founder and president of Peeker Services. We explore his journey from rebuilding locomotives to embracing W. Edwards Deming's principles, leading to a radical change in his company's management practices, particularly around performance appraisals and bonus systems. Steele shares transformative moments, like presenting his new pay program to the Detroit Deming study group, including Dr. Deming himself, and the eventual transition of his company into an employee-owned structure. The dialogue delves into the practical applications of Deming's theories in the workplace, the power of collective problem-solving, and the importance of fostering a culture of learning and adaptation. Finally, we take a look at some of Dick's critiques of Deming's Journey to Profound Knowledge.Steele's narrative demonstrates a successful integration of system thinking and the profound impact of shifting from traditional merit pay to a more inclusive and equitable model, redefining quality and performance metrics within his organization.Richard's LinkedIn can be found here:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-steele-6586477/

 In part two of their discussion, John Willis engages in a deep dive with Bill Bellows on the multifaceted world of safety, quality, and systems thinking. Inspired by the pioneering work of Sydney Decker, Dr. Woods, and Erik Hollnagel, they explore the nuanced perspectives on safety and quality that transcend conventional understanding.John and Bill navigate the intricate connections between thoroughness, efficiency, and effectiveness, drawing parallels to the foundational principles of Deming and Ackoff. They dissect the Efficiency-Thoroughness Trade-Off (ETTO) principle introduced by Hollnagel, pondering its implications in the context of operational safety and quality management.The conversation further delves into Russ Ackoff’s insights on systems thinking, the DIKW (Data, Information, Knowledge, Wisdom) model, and the profound impact of understanding complex systems on improving organizational outcomes. Bill shares anecdotes from his experiences, illustrating the practical application of these concepts in real-world settings, including his work at Rocketdyne and with the Deming community.Bill's LinkedIn can be found here:https://www.linkedin.com/in/bill-bellows-218435/Show Notes: 1) Ackoff videos on Deming Cooperative, https://demingcooperative.org/ackoffvideos/2) Ackoff on DIKUW - article, https://faculty.ung.edu/kmelton/Documents/DataWisdom.pdf3) Ackoff on DIKUW - video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzS5V5-0VsA&t=21s 3) Deming and Ackoff - excerpts of Volume 21 of the Deming Library, ("A Theory of a System for Educators and Managers”),https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MJ3lGJ4OFo 4) Deming and Ackoff - transcript of full recorded of Volume 21 of the Deming Library ,https://ackoffcenter.blogs.com/ackoff_center_weblog/2011/04/a-converstaion-between-russell-ackoff-and-edward-deming.html5) Ackoff - Memories, https://www.amazon.com/Memories-Hardcover-Collectors-Russell-Ackoff/dp/09565379956) Ackoff - Differences That Make a Difference, https://www.amazon.com/Differences-that-Make-Difference-Distinctions/dp/1908009012/ 

Bill Bellows discusses systemic thinking and organizational excellence, emphasizing interconnectedness within systems. He explores viewing organizations as whole systems and the ripple effects of changes. The episode delves into the philosophy of interconnectedness and quality thinking beyond superficial levels, highlighting the importance of systemic perspectives for organizational success.

A lively discussion about quality control pioneers like Walter Shewhart and W. Edwards Deming, with anecdotes, critiques, and appreciations. They explore the dynamics of recognition and credit in the field, contrasting perspectives on their contributions. Also, they discuss communication challenges in management dynamics, legacy reflections, and the contrasting mindsets of Deming and Juran.

Digital quality expert, Adam Hawkins, and the host explore Deming's perspectives on quality, connecting SLOs to acceptable loss. They discuss variation, the red bead experiment, measuring quality in software, and the challenges of conveying Deming's ideas. Quality is contextual, varying across systems. They emphasize shared mental models for applying quality in the digital landscape.

Bill Bellows and Genichi Taguchi discuss the intersection of Deming's and Taguchi's quality philosophies in Japanese manufacturing. They delve into concepts such as precision, accuracy, variation, and fit in woodworking. They also explore the importance of systems thinking, understanding the consumer, and the influence of Deming and Taguchi on Toyota's quality practices.

Bill Bellows, an engineer with experience in the jet engine industry, discusses his introduction to Genichi Taguchi's methods and quality concepts. They explore variability reduction, precision vs accuracy, process capability, and Taguchi's loss function. The conversation compares traditional quality approaches with Taguchi's perspective, using analogies of a dartboard and Deming's red bead experiment.

I geek out with Tracy Bannon in this episode. Tracy gave us a little history of MITRE and her work at MITRE. DevOps, DevSecOps, and SRE, were also discussed from words to movements. We explore QA and risk controls as well as modern governance. Our conversation ended with a great discussion about generative AI, specifically ChatGPT.  Tracy can be found on Linkedin here:https://www.linkedin.com/in/tracylbannon/

This episode features Mike Harris, a Tester at Geckoboard who self-identifies as a Tester. We discuss how vital Dr. Deming's ideas are to testing, especially around the System of Profound Knowledge, with Mike, who has worked in testing for 20 years. It is another example of Dr. Deming's ideas' relevance in the modern era. Here's a summary:Introducing Mike Harris.0:02Deming’s journey of profound knowledge and the importance of systems thinking.5:22How do we verify what we think we know?11:20Driving out fear in your team.17:36The tyranny of the prevailing style of management and how to break it.23:45What is agile? How did it start?29:31Words matter to Deming.37:42Do you find that most people in the testing community don’t have a clear operational definition?43:30Links:https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-harris-citp-mbcs-5a75733/https://testandanalysis.home.blog/

In this episode, Donna and I discuss what's wrong with the words Root Cause and Root Cause Analysis. Our original thoughts and the differences between the old and new meanings are discussed. Undoubtedly, Dr. Deming's words matter, and we try to figure out what he would have said.