Telling Jefferson Lies: Debunking the Myth that America was Founded as a Christian Nation

Send us a textRecently, David Barton and Matt Krause testified in front of the Texas House of Representatives Public Education committee. Barton and Krause both said some historically questionable things to support the placement of the Ten Commandments in every Texas classroom. A premise of this podcast is that it takes faulty history to pursue Christian nationalist goals, one of which is to erode separation of church and state. Texas Representatives John Bryant and James Talarico scrutinized Barton's and Kruse's arguments and determined that placing a Christian version of the Ten Commandments in every Texas classroom was unfair and un-American. The episode begins with a passionate appeal by Bryant and Talarico for fairness and ends with an analysis of faulty history which is being used to oppose fairness. Music provided by Earl's Taco Shack (Gulf of Mexico Blues, Nebula); Jeremiah Lawson (Sonata for Guitar in A minor), and Jonus Fair (The Rest is History).Written and produced by Warren ThrockmortonThe podcast will be on break until June. Watch for new episodes with material from Andrew Whitehead, Katherine Stewart, Roger Finke, Jemar Tisby, Jeremie Beller, and much more in the second half of season two. 

Send us a textIn this segment, I examine the notion that there was something remarkably Christian about America's founding era. Last week, I fact-checked Charlie Kirk's viral video defense of the belief that America was founded as a Christian nation in the legal sense. Most of what Kirk had to say was irrelevant or incorrect. Today, I consider an overview of moral and religious failings during the founding era. Along with guests Jemar Tisby, Mark Noll, George Marsden, Caleb Campbell, and Aaron Cowan, I contradict Charlie Kirk's call to return to America's Christian roots. In fact, those roots don't seem very Christian when one considers the injustice and atrocities throughout the historical record.From the segment: "With slavery, treachery, mass murder, betrayal and theft embedded in the legacy of the nation, what does it matter how many times a Supreme Being is mentioned in the Declaration of Independence or if the Liberty Bell has Leviticus on it?"Written and produced by Warren ThrockmortonMusic provided by Earl's Taco Shack, Jonathan Swaim, and Jonus Fair  

Send us a textIn 2024, Charlie Kirk distributed a five-minute video defense of the idea that America was founded as a Christian nation. It has been played at least 20 million times on various social media platforms and is full of faulty history. This segment serves to correct the false claims and defend the proposition that America's founders set out to found a secular government with provision for religious pluralism. Unfortunately, this only applied to white males at first. Kirk and his fellow Christian nationalists use a variety of false stories to prop up a vision of a Christian American founding. They want to go back to that mythical time. In this segment, historians Aaron Cowan, Randall Balmer, and George Marsden, English professor Matthew Boedy, and co-host Michael Coulter join me to debunk Kirk's false claims and advocate for good history and religious pluralism.For primary sources referred to in this segment, see this link: https://warrenthrockmorton.substack.com/p/charlie-kirks-christian-america  Written and produced by Warren Throckmorton. Music provided by Earl's Taco Shack and Jonus Fair.  

Send us a textOn January 3, 2025, Louisiana Representative Mike Johnson was re-elected to be Speaker of the House. In his acceptance speech, he quoted a prayer that he said Thomas Jefferson said every day during his presidency and every day of his life thereafter. There is a problem with this story. The prayer was written 56 years after Jefferson died. Jefferson never said the prayer even one day of his life. Later, Johnson and the House chaplain refused to acknowledge they spread false witness to the whole country. Before the prayer was associated with Jefferson, it was falsely tied to George Washington. For many years, people who believe America was founded as a Christian nation have desperately wanted George Washington and Thomas Jefferson to be on their team. In this episode, we will hear from Word and Way editor Brian Kaylor and Willamette University history professor Seth Cotlar as they describe how a common prayer became an American myth.  To read the prayer, titled "For Our Country," go to the 1928 edition of the Book of Common Prayer, page 36. An online version is here: http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/1928Standard/bcp1928std.pdf Telling Jefferson Lies is a product of Warren Throckmorton and today brought to you by the 3rd edition of Getting Jefferson Right: Fact-Checking Claims About Thomas Jefferson. For more information about the book or Warren Throckmorton's substack, go to gettingjeffersonright.com.The next episode will be out within two weeks and I will announce the schedule for the season at that point. Music for the segment was provided by Roman Candle, Earl's Taco Shack, Jonathan Swaim, Jonus Fair, Robo Surgeon Fish, and Dustin Blatnik.  If you like what's going on here, please subscribe, tell your friends, and leave a lovely review. Thanks for listening. 

Send us a textIn 2024, a video featuring Charlie Kirk defending America as a Christian nation was viewed over 10 millions times on social media. Many of the claims were false or misleading. This season of Telling Jefferson Lies will examine this video and other Christian nation claims by Christian nationalists in addition to Kirk. The first full episode is planned for April. There are lies, there are Jefferson Lies, and then there are Christian nationalists' stories. Music by Warren Throckmorton and Jonus Fair. Host: Warren Throckmorton; guest Matthew Boedy.  Art: Sarah Eshelman

Send us a textAlthough the dates have not been set, new episodes of Telling Jefferson Lies are coming this Spring. I want to go deeper into the faulty history of Christian nationalism but also examine the psychology behind it as well. Christian nationalism as an ideology is much more complex than fake quotes and false stories. The way history has been written from the beginning of the arrival of the Europeans must be examined as well.This trailer focuses on January 6 with a clip from David and Tim Barton doing their Christian nationalist duty to distract from the reality of the insurrection at the Capitol. Immediately after the insurrection, Christian nationalists blamed antifa but Trump supporters who were on the ground said that conspiracy theory was wrong. Thanks to Katherine Stewart for her commentary in this brief segment. 

Send us a textOn September 3, 2024, author and historian Jemar Tisby's new book The Spirit of Justice: True Stories of Faith, Race, and Resistance officially drops everywhere. Today, I am posting most of the interview I conducted with Jemar for use in my podcast series Telling Jefferson Lies. In this episode, I recreate my questions because of a recording glitch in the original. The recording on Jemar's end was excellent with brilliant content to match, so this is a quality and thought provoking episode. We cover much of the podcast material (e.g., Thomas Jefferson as an enslaver, David Barton's faux history, the need for accuracy in history), but he also ventures into some discussion of why racism still persists in the present-day and the definition of evangelical and the need to see that category in political terms as much as or more so than religious terms. Add in the smooth tunes, and these 26 minutes are well worth your time.   Tisby, who is also Professor of History at the Simmons College of Kentucky appears in episodes 5, 6, 9, 11, and 13 of Telling Jefferson Lies. The opening music is "That Guy" provided by Dustin Blatnik and Robo Surgeon Fish, and the closer is also Dustin Blatnik and Lo-Fi Hymnal with "Ain't No Grave."Tell a friend and thanks for listening. 

Send us a textOn July 2, 2024, Caleb Campbell's new book Disarming Leviathan: Loving Your Christian Nationalist Neighbor officially drops everywhere. Today, I am posting most of the interview I conducted with Caleb for use in my podcast series Telling Jefferson Lies. In this episode, I do say I want to smash Christian nationalists, but I hope it is clear that I am not serious, but instead I agree with Caleb's approach. There is often a difference between what we might feel like doing and we know we should do, and Caleb points us to our better angels. The opening music is something I lovingly call the Christian Nationalist Dance and the closer is Lo-Fi Hymnal's rendition of Were You There.  

Lecturer Scott Coley discusses Christo-authoritarianism and justice in his book 'Ministers of Propaganda'. He challenges evangelical orthodoxy, explores strategies to combat Christian nationalism, and emphasizes the importance of shared purpose in politics.

Send us a textOften debates focus on Christian nationalism and the problems which come from blurring the line between church and state. In this episode, I end the Telling Jefferson Lies series with some thoughts and testimony from experts about what is good about separation. Helping me close out the series are:Randall Balmer, John Phillips Chair in Religion, Dartmouth CollegeCaleb Campbell, Pastor, Desert Springs Bible Church, Phoenix, AZMichael Coulter, Professor, Political Science and Humanities, Grove City CollegeGreg Forster, theologian, Trinity International UniversityCharles Haynes,  senior fellow for religious liberty at the Freedom ForumPaul Kemeny, Dean of Arts and Letters, Grove City CollegeJoel McDurmon, Attorney, theologianGlenn Sunshine, Colson FellowsThe closing song is Gemini by Robo Surgeon Fish. You can add it to your Spotify playlist here: https://open.spotify.com/track/6vqnUYyOrqLAWudh6Z5B5x?si=d76ccbb6edb94cfcTheme Song: The World Awaits Us All, Roman CandleBackground Music: Jonathan Swaim, Robo Surgeon Fish, Warren ThrockmortonTelling Jefferson Lies was written, produced, and hosted by Warren ThrockmortonTo see what's next, follow my blog/substack at warrenthrockmorton.substack.comFor more information about the book Getting Jefferson Right, go to gettingjeffersonright.com.