Telling Jefferson Lies: Debunking the Myth that America was Founded as a Christian Nation

Send us a textOn January 3, 2025, Louisiana Representative Mike Johnson was re-elected to be Speaker of the House. In his acceptance speech, he quoted a prayer that he said Thomas Jefferson said every day during his presidency and every day of his life thereafter. There is a problem with this story. The prayer was written 56 years after Jefferson died. Jefferson never said the prayer even one day of his life. Later, Johnson and the House chaplain refused to acknowledge they spread false witness to the whole country. Before the prayer was associated with Jefferson, it was falsely tied to George Washington. For many years, people who believe America was founded as a Christian nation have desperately wanted George Washington and Thomas Jefferson to be on their team. In this episode, we will hear from Word and Way editor Brian Kaylor and Willamette University history professor Seth Cotlar as they describe how a common prayer became an American myth.  To read the prayer, titled "For Our Country," go to the 1928 edition of the Book of Common Prayer, page 36. An online version is here: http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/1928Standard/bcp1928std.pdf Telling Jefferson Lies is a product of Warren Throckmorton and today brought to you by the 3rd edition of Getting Jefferson Right: Fact-Checking Claims About Thomas Jefferson. For more information about the book or Warren Throckmorton's substack, go to gettingjeffersonright.com.The next episode will be out within two weeks and I will announce the schedule for the season at that point. Music for the segment was provided by Roman Candle, Earl's Taco Shack, Jonathan Swaim, Jonus Fair, Robo Surgeon Fish, and Dustin Blatnik.  If you like what's going on here, please subscribe, tell your friends, and leave a lovely review. Thanks for listening. 

Send us a textIn 2024, a video featuring Charlie Kirk defending America as a Christian nation was viewed over 10 millions times on social media. Many of the claims were false or misleading. This season of Telling Jefferson Lies will examine this video and other Christian nation claims by Christian nationalists in addition to Kirk. The first full episode is planned for April. There are lies, there are Jefferson Lies, and then there are Christian nationalists' stories. Music by Warren Throckmorton and Jonus Fair. Host: Warren Throckmorton; guest Matthew Boedy.  Art: Sarah Eshelman

Send us a textAlthough the dates have not been set, new episodes of Telling Jefferson Lies are coming this Spring. I want to go deeper into the faulty history of Christian nationalism but also examine the psychology behind it as well. Christian nationalism as an ideology is much more complex than fake quotes and false stories. The way history has been written from the beginning of the arrival of the Europeans must be examined as well.This trailer focuses on January 6 with a clip from David and Tim Barton doing their Christian nationalist duty to distract from the reality of the insurrection at the Capitol. Immediately after the insurrection, Christian nationalists blamed antifa but Trump supporters who were on the ground said that conspiracy theory was wrong. Thanks to Katherine Stewart for her commentary in this brief segment. 

Send us a textOn September 3, 2024, author and historian Jemar Tisby's new book The Spirit of Justice: True Stories of Faith, Race, and Resistance officially drops everywhere. Today, I am posting most of the interview I conducted with Jemar for use in my podcast series Telling Jefferson Lies. In this episode, I recreate my questions because of a recording glitch in the original. The recording on Jemar's end was excellent with brilliant content to match, so this is a quality and thought provoking episode. We cover much of the podcast material (e.g., Thomas Jefferson as an enslaver, David Barton's faux history, the need for accuracy in history), but he also ventures into some discussion of why racism still persists in the present-day and the definition of evangelical and the need to see that category in political terms as much as or more so than religious terms. Add in the smooth tunes, and these 26 minutes are well worth your time.   Tisby, who is also Professor of History at the Simmons College of Kentucky appears in episodes 5, 6, 9, 11, and 13 of Telling Jefferson Lies. The opening music is "That Guy" provided by Dustin Blatnik and Robo Surgeon Fish, and the closer is also Dustin Blatnik and Lo-Fi Hymnal with "Ain't No Grave."Tell a friend and thanks for listening. 

Send us a textOn July 2, 2024, Caleb Campbell's new book Disarming Leviathan: Loving Your Christian Nationalist Neighbor officially drops everywhere. Today, I am posting most of the interview I conducted with Caleb for use in my podcast series Telling Jefferson Lies. In this episode, I do say I want to smash Christian nationalists, but I hope it is clear that I am not serious, but instead I agree with Caleb's approach. There is often a difference between what we might feel like doing and we know we should do, and Caleb points us to our better angels. The opening music is something I lovingly call the Christian Nationalist Dance and the closer is Lo-Fi Hymnal's rendition of Were You There.  

Lecturer Scott Coley discusses Christo-authoritarianism and justice in his book 'Ministers of Propaganda'. He challenges evangelical orthodoxy, explores strategies to combat Christian nationalism, and emphasizes the importance of shared purpose in politics.

Send us a textOften debates focus on Christian nationalism and the problems which come from blurring the line between church and state. In this episode, I end the Telling Jefferson Lies series with some thoughts and testimony from experts about what is good about separation. Helping me close out the series are:Randall Balmer, John Phillips Chair in Religion, Dartmouth CollegeCaleb Campbell, Pastor, Desert Springs Bible Church, Phoenix, AZMichael Coulter, Professor, Political Science and Humanities, Grove City CollegeGreg Forster, theologian, Trinity International UniversityCharles Haynes,  senior fellow for religious liberty at the Freedom ForumPaul Kemeny, Dean of Arts and Letters, Grove City CollegeJoel McDurmon, Attorney, theologianGlenn Sunshine, Colson FellowsThe closing song is Gemini by Robo Surgeon Fish. You can add it to your Spotify playlist here: https://open.spotify.com/track/6vqnUYyOrqLAWudh6Z5B5x?si=d76ccbb6edb94cfcTheme Song: The World Awaits Us All, Roman CandleBackground Music: Jonathan Swaim, Robo Surgeon Fish, Warren ThrockmortonTelling Jefferson Lies was written, produced, and hosted by Warren ThrockmortonTo see what's next, follow my blog/substack at warrenthrockmorton.substack.comFor more information about the book Getting Jefferson Right, go to gettingjeffersonright.com. 

Send us a textIn 2005, Justice Sandra Day O'Connor asked an important question for those who would erode separation of church and state: "Why would we trade a system that has served us so well for one that has served others so poorly? "I spend much of this episode affirming that we should not trade. Much of this series has been raising alarm about Christian nationalism and supporting separation of church and state. This episode assembles an all-star cast of experts in favor of a strong separation position. Joining me are:Randall Balmer: John Phillips Chair in Religion at Dartmouth CollegeRob Boston: Editor, Church & State magazineCharles Haynes: Senior fellow at the Freedom Forum Troy Jackson: Historian, civil rights activist, founder of UndividedGeorge Marsden: Professor of history, emeritus, Notre Dame UniversityMark Noll: Professor of history, emeritus, Notre Dame UniversityJemar Tisby: Historian, author, civil right activistShow Notes:The closing song is Twisting History by Jonus Fair and the theme song is The World Awaits Us All by Roman Candle. Background music is provided by Jonathan Swaim and yours truly. Thanks to Grove City College Social Work professor Jennifer Hollenberger for the opening affirmation!Thanks to Rob Boston for the tip on the O'Connor Question. For more information about the book Getting Jefferson Right, go to gettingjeffersonright.com. 

Send us a textIn this segment, I argue that Christian nationalism is bad for religion in general and bad for Christianity in the specific case. This segment sets up the finale which argues that separation of church and state is a benefit to the United States and should be strengthened. If you like experts and multiple voices, this is the segment for you. Here is the lineup:Randall Balmer, John Phillips Chair in Religion, Dartmouth CollegePaul Kemeny, Dean of Arts and Letters, Grove City CollegeBob Smietana, Journalist, Religion News ServiceCaleb Campbell, Pastor, Desert Springs Bible Church, Phoenix, AZGeorge Marsden, Professor of history, emeritus, Notre Dame UniversityMark Noll, Professor of history, emeritus, Notre Dame UniversityKatherine Stewart, Author, journalistJohn Fea, Professor of history, Messiah UniversityGreg Thornbury, Author “Why Should The Devil Have All The Good Music?Charles Haynes,  senior fellow for religious liberty at the Freedom ForumJonathan Larsen, journalistGreg Forster, theologian, Trinity International UniversitySHOW NOTES:The closing song is Old Time Religion by the Tuskegee Institute Singers.The Telling Jefferson Lies theme song is The World Awaits Us All by Roman CandleBackground music provided by Jonathan Swaim, Dustin Blatnik, Warren ThrockmortonFor more information, go to gettingjeffersonright.com.

Send us a textIn this short bonus episode, Dartmouth College professor Randall Balmer provides an introduction to reasons why he doesn't see the U.S. as a Christian nation. Dr. Balmer is the John Phillips Chair in Religion at Dartmouth College. He has spoken at numerous colleges and universities, including where I met him, Grove City College. Balmer has published more than a dozen books, including Redeemer: The Life of Jimmy Carter, God in the White House: How Faith Shaped the Presidency from John F. Kennedy to George W. Bush, and Bad Faith: Race and the Rise of the Religious Right. His second book, Mine Eyes Have Seen the Glory: A Journey into the Evangelical Subculture in America, now in its fifth edition, was made into an award-winning, three-part documentary for PBS. Two more regular segments are planned with the series concluding by the end of April.  I hope to post some additional bonus episodes after the final regular segment. Closing song today is Ain't No Grave by LoFi Hymnal. https://open.spotify.com/track/4Gi1aZgcQdXvBZECPyKXhG?si=b93eb41870914f66Background music by Jonathan Swaim and Warren ThrockmortonTelling Jefferson Lies is hosted, written, and produced by Warren Throckmorton. For more information about the podcast or the book Getting Jefferson Right, go to gettingjeffersonright.com.