Telling Jefferson Lies: Debunking the Myth that America was Founded as a Christian Nation

Send us a textIn 2005, Justice Sandra Day O'Connor asked an important question for those who would erode separation of church and state: "Why would we trade a system that has served us so well for one that has served others so poorly? "I spend much of this episode affirming that we should not trade. Much of this series has been raising alarm about Christian nationalism and supporting separation of church and state. This episode assembles an all-star cast of experts in favor of a strong separation position. Joining me are:Randall Balmer: John Phillips Chair in Religion at Dartmouth CollegeRob Boston: Editor, Church & State magazineCharles Haynes: Senior fellow at the Freedom Forum Troy Jackson: Historian, civil rights activist, founder of UndividedGeorge Marsden: Professor of history, emeritus, Notre Dame UniversityMark Noll: Professor of history, emeritus, Notre Dame UniversityJemar Tisby: Historian, author, civil right activistShow Notes:The closing song is Twisting History by Jonus Fair and the theme song is The World Awaits Us All by Roman Candle. Background music is provided by Jonathan Swaim and yours truly. Thanks to Grove City College Social Work professor Jennifer Hollenberger for the opening affirmation!Thanks to Rob Boston for the tip on the O'Connor Question. For more information about the book Getting Jefferson Right, go to gettingjeffersonright.com. 

Send us a textIn this segment, I argue that Christian nationalism is bad for religion in general and bad for Christianity in the specific case. This segment sets up the finale which argues that separation of church and state is a benefit to the United States and should be strengthened. If you like experts and multiple voices, this is the segment for you. Here is the lineup:Randall Balmer, John Phillips Chair in Religion, Dartmouth CollegePaul Kemeny, Dean of Arts and Letters, Grove City CollegeBob Smietana, Journalist, Religion News ServiceCaleb Campbell, Pastor, Desert Springs Bible Church, Phoenix, AZGeorge Marsden, Professor of history, emeritus, Notre Dame UniversityMark Noll, Professor of history, emeritus, Notre Dame UniversityKatherine Stewart, Author, journalistJohn Fea, Professor of history, Messiah UniversityGreg Thornbury, Author “Why Should The Devil Have All The Good Music?Charles Haynes,  senior fellow for religious liberty at the Freedom ForumJonathan Larsen, journalistGreg Forster, theologian, Trinity International UniversitySHOW NOTES:The closing song is Old Time Religion by the Tuskegee Institute Singers.The Telling Jefferson Lies theme song is The World Awaits Us All by Roman CandleBackground music provided by Jonathan Swaim, Dustin Blatnik, Warren ThrockmortonFor more information, go to gettingjeffersonright.com.

Send us a textIn this short bonus episode, Dartmouth College professor Randall Balmer provides an introduction to reasons why he doesn't see the U.S. as a Christian nation. Dr. Balmer is the John Phillips Chair in Religion at Dartmouth College. He has spoken at numerous colleges and universities, including where I met him, Grove City College. Balmer has published more than a dozen books, including Redeemer: The Life of Jimmy Carter, God in the White House: How Faith Shaped the Presidency from John F. Kennedy to George W. Bush, and Bad Faith: Race and the Rise of the Religious Right. His second book, Mine Eyes Have Seen the Glory: A Journey into the Evangelical Subculture in America, now in its fifth edition, was made into an award-winning, three-part documentary for PBS. Two more regular segments are planned with the series concluding by the end of April.  I hope to post some additional bonus episodes after the final regular segment. Closing song today is Ain't No Grave by LoFi Hymnal. https://open.spotify.com/track/4Gi1aZgcQdXvBZECPyKXhG?si=b93eb41870914f66Background music by Jonathan Swaim and Warren ThrockmortonTelling Jefferson Lies is hosted, written, and produced by Warren Throckmorton. For more information about the podcast or the book Getting Jefferson Right, go to gettingjeffersonright.com. 

Exploring the dangers of Christian nationalism in politics and religion, including state-sponsored violence, erosion of democracy, and attacks on minority rights. Discussion with expert guests on the negative impacts of intertwining religion and government. Highlighting real-life examples and the connection to extremist views in American society.

Send us a textAs promised, here is the completion of my examination of David Barton's whitewashing of Thomas Jefferson. In our book Getting Jefferson Right: Fact-Checking Claims About Thomas Jefferson, Michael Coulter and I assume the position held by most scholars and the Thomas Jefferson Foundation when it comes to the paternity of Sally Hemings children, i.e., Thomas Jefferson was their father. In The Jefferson Lies, David Barton deceives readers about what Madison Hemings said about his mother. Here is what Barton said Hemings told a Pike County (OH) newspaper in 1873."The other major oral tradition challenging Jefferson’s sexual morality came from Sally Hemings’ son Madison (the fourth Hemings child, born in 1805). In an article published in an Ohio newspaper in 1873, Madison Hemings claimed that in France “my mother became Mr. Jefferson’s concubine, and when he was called back home she was enceinte [pregnant] by him” with Thomas Woodson."Here is what Madison Hemings actually had published in that newspaper:"But during that time my mother became Mr. Jefferson’s concubine, and when he was called home she was enciente by him. He desired to bring my mother back to Virginia with him but she demurred. She was just beginning to understand the French language well, and in France she was free, while if she returned to Virginia she would be re-enslaved. So she refused to return with him. To induce her to do so he promised her extraordinary privileges, and made a solemn pledge that her children should be freed at the age of twenty-one years. In consequence of his promises, on which she implicitly relied, she returned with him to Virginia. Soon after their arrival, she gave birth to a child, of whom Thomas Jefferson was the father. It lived but a short time. She gave birth to four others, and Jefferson was the father of all of them. Their names were Beverly, Harriet, Madison (myself), and Eston—three sons and one daughter. We all became free agreeably to the treaty entered into by our parents before we were born. We all married and have raised families."Hemings did not mention Woodson because he was irrelevant. Sally Hemings first child lived but "a short time." Barton didn't tell his readers that part of the story.The Monticello website on Sally Hemings and Thomas Jefferson: https://www.monticello.org/thomas-jefferson/jefferson-slavery/thomas-jefferson-and-sally-hemings-a-brief-account/Research Report: https://www.monticello.org/thomas-jefferson/jefferson-slavery/thomas-jefferson-and-sally-hemings-a-brief-account/research-report-on-jefferson-and-hemings/SHOW NOTES:For more information about Getting Jefferson Right, go to gettingjeffersonright.com.  The closing song is Were You There by LoFi Hymnal. https://open.spotify.com/track/19oJxhr6efnpU7LVBzUQz2?si=c94873948db84fbdBackground music by Jonathan Swaim, Roman Candle, and Warren ThrockmortonThe series will conclude during the final week of April with an episode on the virtues of the separation of ch

Send us a textThis supplements episode 10, Still Searching for Christian America, Part Two. You can listen to this first, but I definitely encourage you to go back and catch up if you do. Everybody in Christian nationalism is talking about the seven mountains message. The message is at the root of much violent rhetoric coming from Christian nationalists but according to one of the key players in the movement, the origin story is fake. Helping me out in this bonus episode is Senior scholar at the Institute for Islamic, Christian and Jewish Studies Matthew Taylor; English prof at University of North Georgia Matthew Boedy, and attorney and theologian Joel McDurmon.From the episode:"Remember, all of this rhetoric has been directly inspired by a teaching that is based on a false story. Let’s keep it real, God did not show Loren Cunningham, Lance Wallnau, Mike Crotts, Johnny Enlow or anyone that the Christian’s mission in this world is to take the government by stealth or by force. He who has ears to hear, let him hear." SHOW NOTESHosted, written and produced by Warren ThrockmortonClosing song is Endless Runner by the amazing Robo Surgeon Fish.https://open.spotify.com/track/5IyxikZ3PJYyFWhdoLkbCf?si=c7409ab3f4be4c6cTelling Jefferson Lies Playlist with many of the songs featured in the series:https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2yMPnORBMXNa0JuJP2u5uo?si=3e6463d8fb554cacMatthew Taylor's podcast Charismatic Revival Fury:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/charismatic-revival-fury-the-new-apostolic-reformation/id1738709631Many of the clips for the series come from Right Wing Watch, especially those documenting the violent rhetoric of Christian nationalist leaders.  I encourage you to follow them on social media. 

Professor Julie Ingersoll and guests discuss the National Prayer Breakfast movement, right-wing Christian nationalists, Reconstructionists, and non-denominational charismatic Christian nationalists. They explore the historical inaccuracies of Christian America, the influence of the National Prayer Breakfast Movement, and the rise of Christian Reconstructionism. The podcast delves into the parallels between Jerry Falwell and Donald Trump's rhetoric, the evolution of Dominion theology, and the intertwining of Christian nationalist ideologies with politics since the Eisenhower era.

Mark Noll and George Marsden discuss the absence of a uniquely Christian founding of the US. The podcast explores Christian nationalism variations including white nationalism and Catholic integralism. It delves into the consequences of distorting history and the dangers of linking Christian nationalism with white supremacy.

Send us a textStephen Wolfe's book The Case for Christian Nationalism ignited a firestorm of controversy when it was released in 2022.  In the book, Wolfe calls for revolt against tyranny and for Christians to mobilize at the state and local level to enact self-conscious Christian governments. In principle, according to Wolfe, Christian state's could use violence to maintain a Christian social order. With the help of Cato Institute historian Paul Matzko, podcast host Warren Throckmorton analyzes how Wolfe deals with Thomas Jefferson and highlights differences from other Christian nationalists such as David Barton. Also joining the program is Grove City College Dean of Arts and Letters and church historian Paul Kemeny. The Apostle Paul is also quoted so if you like Pauls, this episode is for you. SHOW NOTES:Paul Matzko's review of The Case for Christian Nationalism at Reason Magazine.https://reason.com/2023/05/13/beware-the-christian-prince/Thanks to Charles Norman and the Larry Norman Estate for permission to play Larry Norman's song, "Six, Sixty, Six" as today's closing song. Telling Jefferson Lies' theme song is "The World Awaits Us All" by Roman Candle. Thanks to Skip Matheny and Roman Candle for permission to play their music.Jonathan Swaim and I provide background music for today's episode.  

Send us a textSHOW NOTES:This bonus episode is a supplement to Conspiracy of Silence (Episode Seven of Telling Jefferson Lies). It provides the audio of the Family Research Council Capitol Tour led by David Barton followed by the the response of 35 historians and social scientists who, in 2013, asked FRC to remove the video from social media. You can watch the original video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzGdHZDXxKITo get the story, listen to the Conspiracy of Silence, episode seven. Written and produced by: Warren ThrockmortonNarrated by: Michael Coulter and Warren ThrockmortonOpening song by Jonus FairClosing song: "Rise" by Dustin BlatnikDustin Blatnik on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/5SK6CsLVrHGckh7EBGavO2Background music by Jonus Fair and Warren ThrockmortonWatch for Jonus Fair coming soon to the digital world.