First Principles

Hello, listeners, and welcome back to First Principles, Episode 48, or the 7th episode of season 3. This is part 2 of the conversation.The host, Rohin Dharmakumar, first crossed paths with Deepak Abbot back in April 2015, even before The Ken had been founded. Rohin was chasing down an insightful breakdown of the tech ecosystem's huge user numbers during the Free Basics debate, and Deepak, a veteran operator and former product head at Paytm, was the go-to source for his data-filled, analytical posts.That same data-driven curiosity is what led Deepak to walk away from corporate life in 2019. He was clear: he didn't want to just manage; he had years left to actively "build products, you know, with my own hands". What he built was Indiagold, targeting the massive opportunity of gold in a market VCs often dismissed as an 'old economy product'.In this episode, Rohin sat down with Deepak Abbot, co-founder of Indiagold, to discuss how they are transforming India's massive $1.5 trillion gold reserve—an asset often locked away and doing nothing—into a productive force. Deepak calls this gold a "dead asset" and explains that Indiagold’s mission is to change the mindset around it. They are not just giving gold loans; they are monetising a secured asset for the 250 million Indians who are excluded from formal credit due to thin or non-existent credit scores. By enabling customers to safely leverage their gold reserve, the company helps jumpstart a formal credit history and provides essential working capital.Listen in as Deepak charts his operator-to-founder journey, shares how he navigated initial VC skepticism, and details the strategy behind turning a seemingly archaic commodity into a modern fintech solution for one of India’s most fundamental credit problems. Plus, a fascinating look inside a unique company culture, including why Indiagold operates without a CEO.*****This episode was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN.Write to us at fp@the-ken.com with your feedback, suggestions, and guests you would want to see on First Principles.If you enjoyed this episode, please help us spread the word by sharing and gifting it to your friends and family.***** Join The Ken as a Podcast Producer and work with India's most ambitious storytellers! We’re creating a podcast about India’s biggest companies, with each episode backed by weeks of deep research. You’ll lead the workflows that turn that research into exceptional narratives and bring the show to listeners around the world. Join us to help shape something exceptional. Check out the details and apply here. 

Hello, listeners, and welcome back to First Principles, Episode 48, or the 7th episode of season 3. This is part 1 of the conversation.The host, Rohin Dharmakumar, first crossed paths with Deepak Abbot back in April 2015, even before The Ken had been founded. Rohin was chasing down an insightful breakdown of the tech ecosystem's huge user numbers during the Free Basics debate, and Deepak, a veteran operator and former product head at Paytm, was the go-to source for his data-filled, analytical posts.That same data-driven curiosity is what led Deepak to walk away from corporate life in 2019. He was clear: he didn't want to just manage; he had years left to actively "build products, you know, with my own hands". What he built was Indiagold, targeting the massive opportunity of gold in a market VCs often dismissed as an 'old economy product'.In this episode, Rohin sat down with Deepak Abbot, co-founder of Indiagold, to discuss how they are transforming India's massive $1.5 trillion gold reserve—an asset often locked away and doing nothing—into a productive force. Deepak calls this gold a "dead asset" and explains that Indiagold’s mission is to change the mindset around it. They are not just giving gold loans; they are monetising a secured asset for the 250 million Indians who are excluded from formal credit due to thin or non-existent credit scores. By enabling customers to safely leverage their gold reserve, the company helps jumpstart a formal credit history and provides essential working capital.Listen in as Deepak charts his operator-to-founder journey, shares how he navigated initial VC skepticism, and details the strategy behind turning a seemingly archaic commodity into a modern fintech solution for one of India’s most fundamental credit problems. Plus, a fascinating look inside a unique company culture, including why Indiagold operates without a CEO.*****This episode was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN.Write to us at fp@the-ken.com with your feedback, suggestions, and guests you would want to see on First Principles.If you enjoyed this episode, please help us spread the word by sharing and gifting it to your friends and family.***** Join The Ken as a Podcast Producer and work with India's most ambitious storytellers! We’re creating a podcast about India’s biggest companies, with each episode backed by weeks of deep research. You’ll lead the workflows that turn that research into exceptional narratives and bring the show to listeners around the world. Join us to help shape something exceptional. Check out the details and apply here. 

Hello and welcome back to First Principles. This is the 47th episode since we started, or the 6th episode of season 3.In this episode, I sit down with Rahul Matthan, a co-founder of Trilegal, one of India’s largest and most successful full-service law firms. While Rahul starts by questioning if a lawyer can be an entrepreneur, the conversation unfolds into a masterclass on the patient, principled art of building a lasting institution.Rahul provides a rare, inside look into the unique challenges of building a professional services firm—a business where the people are the product. He breaks down the counterintuitive models Trilegal adopted to foster a culture of collaboration over individual stardom. We explore their radical “all-equity partnership” and the “lockstep” compensation model, designed to de-risk the firm from becoming dependent on individual “rainmakers” and to align everyone’s incentives towards collective success.A key theme is the power of compounding principles. Rahul explains how foundational decisions made 25 years ago, such as not naming the firm after its founders and instilling a “firm before self” ethos, were critical for long-term, sustainable growth. He also shares the story behind Trilegal’s exponential 3X growth during the COVID period, attributing it not just to market demand but to a crucial, planned transition from a founder-led management to a new leadership team built for scale.Finally, Rahul offers a nuanced and critical perspective on the impact of AI on the legal profession. He argues that the real disruption won’t be in replacing senior experts, but in hollowing out the training ground for junior associates, posing a fundamental challenge to the apprenticeship model that professions rely on.*****This is the 2nd part of my conversation with him.*****This episode was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN.Write to us at fp@the-ken.com with your feedback, suggestions, and guests you would want to see on First Principles.If you enjoyed this episode, please help us spread the word by sharing and gifting it to your friends and family. Join The Ken as a Podcast Producer and work with India's most ambitious storytellers! We’re creating a podcast about India’s biggest companies, with each episode backed by weeks of deep research. You’ll lead the workflows that turn that research into exceptional narratives and bring the show to listeners around the world. Join us to help shape something exceptional. Check out the details and apply here. 

In this episode, Rohin Dharmakumar sits down with Rahul Matthan, a co-founder of Trilegal, one of India’s largest and most successful full-service law firms. While Rahul starts by questioning if a lawyer can be an entrepreneur, the conversation unfolds into a masterclass on the patient, principled art of building a lasting institution.Rahul provides a rare, inside look into the unique challenges of building a professional services firm—a business where the people are the product. He breaks down the counterintuitive models Trilegal adopted to foster a culture of collaboration over individual stardom. We explore their radical “all-equity partnership” and the “lockstep” compensation model, designed to de-risk the firm from becoming dependent on individual “rainmakers” and to align everyone’s incentives towards collective success.A key theme is the power of compounding principles. Rahul explains how foundational decisions made 25 years ago, such as not naming the firm after its founders and instilling a “firm before self” ethos, were critical for long-term, sustainable growth. He also shares the story behind Trilegal’s exponential 3X growth during the COVID period, attributing it not just to market demand but to a crucial, planned transition from a founder-led management to a new leadership team built for scale.Finally, Rahul offers a nuanced and critical perspective on the impact of AI on the legal profession. He argues that the real disruption won’t be in replacing senior experts, but in hollowing out the training ground for junior associates, posing a fundamental challenge to the apprenticeship model that professions rely on.This episode was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN.Write to us at fp@the-ken.com with your feedback, suggestions, and guests you would want to see on First Principles.If you enjoyed this episode, please help us spread the word by sharing and gifting it to your friends and family. Join The Ken as a Podcast Producer and work with India's most ambitious storytellers! We’re creating a podcast about India’s biggest companies, with each episode backed by weeks of deep research. You’ll lead the workflows that turn that research into exceptional narratives and bring the show to listeners around the world. Join us to help shape something exceptional. Check out the details and apply here. 

Anand Jain, co-founder of CleverTap, shares his entrepreneurial journey from starting a business at age 12 to leading a successful customer engagement platform. He discusses the importance of resilience and innovation, fostering a collaborative company culture, and the transformative impact of AI on customer insights. Anand emphasizes lifelong learning, the evolution of leadership in tech startups, and unique hiring practices that focus on passion. He also reflects on how trekking can serve as a metaphor for personal growth and overcoming challenges.

Anand Jain, co-founder of CleverTap, shares his inspiring entrepreneurial journey from coding for survival at age 12 to launching a leading customer engagement platform. He discusses the critical lessons learned from early struggles, including strategic decision-making and the importance of resilience. Anand also emphasizes engaging customers over transactions, illustrating how meaningful interactions enhance loyalty. His journey highlights innovation and adaptability, with interesting anecdotes about his early projects and the transformative power of a builder's mindset.

Narayan Subramaniam, Co-founder and CEO of Ultraviolette Automotive, shares his passion for innovative design in electric vehicles. He discusses the role of time in startup growth and the importance of adaptability among co-founders. Delving into the power of elimination, Narayan emphasizes that true innovation springs from discarding subpar solutions. He also explores the challenges of funding in the automotive sector and the significance of aligning company goals with team interests while balancing professional commitments with personal passions.

Narayan Subramaniam, Co-founder and CEO of Ultraviolette Automotive, shares insights from his nine-year journey in Bangalore's automotive innovation landscape. He discusses the urgency of time in startups, emphasizing how resource constraints drive innovation. Narayan reflects on the origins of Ultraviolette, balancing academic pressures with a quest for originality in engineering. He navigates the challenges of securing funding, building a skilled team, and adapting battery technologies, painting a vivid picture of the evolving electric vehicle market and its future.

Manish Sabharwal, Co-founder of Teamlease, discusses the misalignment of India's educational system with job market needs. He tackles the challenges of higher education funding and the importance of vocational training for economic growth. Manish shares insights on balancing his diverse roles across non-profits and businesses, highlighting the significance of self-discovery in personal growth. He also addresses the socio-economic dynamics in India, advocating for teamwork to rebuild trust and progress, alongside reflections on technology's role in societal change.

Manish Sabharwal, Co-founder of Teamlease and expert on labor markets, shares insights on India's development journey. He discusses the importance of long-term thinking in creating a legacy and addresses challenges like wage stagnation and the transition from agriculture. Manish critiques bureaucratic hurdles and corruption, highlighting their impact on growth and AI's potential in society. He also emphasizes the undervaluation of care work and the need for economic reforms to foster innovation and entrepreneurial freedom in India.