Smoke 'Em If You Got 'Em Podcast

Nancy and Sarah tackle the curious case of Frank Langella, the celebrated actor fired from Netflix’s Fall of the House of Usher after a young actress complains about an on-set interaction, while Fred Savage gets disappeared from The Wonder Years reboot for “abusive behavior,” though we’re not sure what kind. On the Depp-Heard beat, Nancy and Sarah consider body language in the courtroom, “mutual abuse,” the problem with psychiatric diagnoses, and why women are the most complicated characters. Sexy selfies are discussed, but not enough (future episode!). Meanwhile, the fire over Roe v. Wade keeps raging, but Sarah finds hope and wisdom in another podcast, and Nancy has a message for anyone who thinks motherhood is the end of freedom.Also, Sarah rewatches Citizen Kane, prompting the memory of Orson Welles commercials for Ernest & Julio Gallo wine, though it turns out to be Paul Masson, but we’re not sure Welles remembered that either:Episode notes:Conor Friedersdorf’s The Best of Journalism Killers of the Flower Moon by David GrannOrson Welles on Woody Allen, Elia Kazan, Jean-Luc Godard, etc. (twitter thread)Dorothy Comingore, exiled actress from Citizen Kane (Wikipedia)Wanderer by Sterling Hayden“Fired by Netflix, Frank Langella Refutes Alleged Allegations of ‘Unacceptable Behavior.’” (Deadline)“Netflix’s Big Wake-Up Call: The Power Clash Behind the Crash” (Hollywood Reporter)“It's Official: Linguistic Intent No Longer Matters at The New York Times” (Matt Welch, Reason)“The disturbing story behind the rape scene in Bernardo Bertolucci’s Last Tango in Paris, explained” (Vox)“CBS Studios’ ‘Last Tango in Paris’ Series to Focus on Maria Schneider’s Perspective on Controversial Production” (Hollywood Reporter)Nick Wallis on Depp v. Heard (YouTube)“Johnny Depp, Amber Heard and the harmful logical fallacy of ‘mutual abuse’” (Lux Alptraum, Think)“Legally, Dirty, Blonde” podcastFleishman Is in Trouble: A Novel by Taffy Brodesser-Akner The Unspeakable Podcast, with Meghan Daum: “The future of abortion: Frances Kissling on Moving Forward in a Post-Roe World”“How Dare They!” Andrew Sullivan, Weekly DishChristopher Hitchens’ “The Poison Chalice” (YouTube)Corrections: Did Justice Alito perform abortions? Not according to WikipediaCheryl Tiegs, Sports Illustrated Swimsuit editionOutro song: “Starry Eyes” by The Records This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

Live, from Chinatown NYC, a reading of this past weekend’s essay about the best of the best true crime books. Just want the list? That’s below, with links. Speaking of Chinatown: let me know if you’re interested in reading The Snakehead, by Patrick Radden Keefe (his Say Nothing is included here), which I started last night and which takes place in my exact part of Chinatown. Thinking of starting a Smoke ‘Em true crime book club.Speaking of Radden Keefe: Michael Moynihan had a fantastic conversation with him about Say Nothing, over on the Fifth Column podcast, which moved to Substack this month. Go subscribe! If you’ve already subscribed to this podcast, thank you! If not, there’s the clicky xx Shot in the Heart, by Mikal GilmoreLost Girls, by Robert KolkerBlood Will Out, by Walter KirnThe Adversary, by Emmanuel CarrereColumbine, by Dave CullenDown City, by Leah CarrollI’ll Be Gone in the Dark, by Michelle McNamaraSay Nothing: A True Story of Murder and Memory in Northern IrelandThe Journalist and the Murderer, by Janet MalcomHelter Skelter, by Vincent BugliosiIn Cold Blood, by Truman CapoteCrossed Over, by Beverly LowryUnder the Banner of Heaven, by Jon Krakauer This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

After a ten-minute chat on why we love boobs (any size), Nancy gives an update on the Vicky White/Casey White jail break, and Sarah brings us up to date on the Johnny Depp-Amber Heard trial, with an eye on Heard’s small-town Texas past and her first appearance on the stand. But the story of the day is Roe v. Wade, which Sarah knows particularly well, since the case started in Dallas. Nancy admits to agreeing with the politically unpopular Bill Clinton dictum that abortion should be “safe, legal, and rare.” Sarah tells the story of her own abortion at age 30, how it changed her life in ways that can never be measured, and remembers what Milan Kundera wrote in The Unbearable Lightness of Being: “We can never know what to want, because, living only one life, we can neither compare it with our previous lives nor perfect it in our lives to come.”Episode notes:Debbie Harry white dressCheryl Tiegs (not Christie Brinkley, whoops) in a white mesh swimsuitRunning tab on terms Nancy did not know: Queef, keg stand, motorboatNancy’s review of the book Breasts: A Natural and Unnatural HistoryVicky White and Casey White have been on the run 7 days!Amber Heard on the stand, 4/4/22 (video)“America’s Girls” podcast, hosted by Sarah HepolaAmber Heard stole my sexual assault story, ex-aide tells libel trial (Guardian, July 2020)“We Do Abortions Here,” Sallie Tisdale (Harpers 1987)“The Dishonesty of the Abortion Debate,” Caitlin Flanagan (Atlantic, 2019)“The Brilliance of ‘Safe, Legal, and Rare,’” Caitlin Flanagan (Atlantic 2019)“Roe v. Wade’s Secret Heroine Tells Her Story,” Joshua Prager on Linda Coffee (Vanity Fair, 2017)“Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s Warning About Roe v. Wade Came True,” Ewan Palmer (Newsweek, 2022)“Things Fell Apart” podcast, with Jon RonsonDavid Foster Wallace on AbortionThe Unbearable Lightness of Being, by Milan KunderaOutro song: “Here Comes the Sun,” the Beatles This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

Prison escapes, death row visits, and how to handle (and not handle) homicide. No it’s not an episode of one of those murder-as-snack podcasts, it’s Sarah and Nancy discussing serial killers, lovelorn prison guards, manipulative prisoners, and why people who make it their business to cover murder might do it with a little more delicacy. Plus the surgery Sarah cannot talk about, a wee bit of we-told-you-so over Amber Heard being revealed to have not written the 2018 domestic violence op-ed for which ex-husband Johnny Depp is now demanding $50 million in defamation dough, and Sarah plans a trip to see it all firsthand.Por favor: In preparation for a bonus show, the Smoke ‘Em journalistsas invite you to send questions, mash notes, secret messages to smokeempodcast@gmail.com As promised, a baker’s dozen of true crime books we love:* Shot in the Heart, by Mikal Gilmore* Lost Girls, by Robert Kolker* Blood Will Out, by Walter Kirn* The Adversary, by Emmanuel Carrere* Columbine, by Dave Cullen* Down City, by Leah Carroll* I’ll Be Gone in the Dark, by Michelle McNamara (which, full disclosure, I listened to on audio. Was great - NR)* Say Nothing: A True Story of Murder and Memory in Northern Ireland, by Patrick Radden Keefe (ditto)* The Journalist and the Murderer, by Janet Malcom* Helter Skelter, by Vincent Bugliosi* In Cold Blood, by Truman Capote* Crossed Over, by Beverly Lowry* Under the Banner of Heaven, by Jon KrakaeurEpisode notes:Warrant issued for missing Alabama corrections officer, escaped convictCoconut cream (not coconut milk)Escape from Dannemora, starring Patricia Arquette, Paul Dano, Benecio del Toro“Conversations with a Killer: The John Wayne Gacy Tapes”“Destination Gacy, A Cross-Country Journey to Shake the Devil’s Hand,” by Nancy Rommelmann (Kindle) Nancy reads “Destination Gacy” (come on, it’s free!)“Hit on the Head,” Sarah’s essay about New Orleans stick up“Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hill”To the Bridge: A True Story of Motherhood and Murder, by Nancy RommelmannSkip Hollandsworth’s most recent Texas Monthly masterpiece, “The Notorious Mrs. Mossler”“Sword and Scale” podcast that scared the crap out of SarahOutro song: “I’m Alive” by Electric Light Orchestra Nancy and Gacy penpal Rick Gaez, 1994 Detective Nick and Sarah, 2019 This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

A forensic psychologist says Amber Heard has borderline personality disorder, and Nancy and Sarah diagnose social media with the same. Also on the docket: Johnny Depp’s blind spot on drinking + the possible decline of political correctness + the mediocrity of journalist Margaret Sullivan versus the greatness of journalist Tom Junod + a gripping piece on sexual violence at Penn State + the invisible strings of Twitter come for Nancy, but never forget the real star of every episode is YOU, dear listener.EPISODE NOTESThe Price Is Right: Big Wheel, big money.The celebrity that Sarah most closely resembles (spacesuit optional).Nick Wallis on Depp v. Heard: Twitter - YouTubeDonald McNeil Jr. on the changing of the guard at the NYT“Political Correctness is Losing,” by Jonathan Chait (New York magazine)“The Year We Broke the Internet” by Luke O’Neil (Esquire)What Michael Caine and Will Sampson of “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest” (and Nancy’s late father-in-law) have in common“No Exit Plan: The Lies and Follies of Laura Albert, a.k.a. JT Leroy,” by Nancy Rommelmann (LA Weekly)“The Survivor: Running to Find Peace After Unthinkable Tragedy,” by Sarah Hepola (Runner’s World)“Untold,” by Tom Junod and Paula Lavigne (ESPN)Sarah: “Nancy, you’ve been shadow-banned!” Nancy: “What’s that?”Outro song: “Sleeper Awake” by Kelly Hogan This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

Welcome to episode 5 (previous episodes archived here), wherein six hours after recording in Paloma Media with the Fifth Column boys, Sarah has to make do with Nancy eating pie in her nightgown. But there’s discussing to be done! Including: * Sarah wondering whether Amber Heard is a synecdoche (a word Nancy can neither pronounce nor spell) for the cultural moment that is #MeToo* Why monster is a dumb thing to call people* The intoxication loophole and why Nancy seriously does not want Andrew Cuomo adjudicating them* “But the goals were noble…”* A Rommelmann #MeToo timeline, from Asia Argento to Kobe Bryant* Sarah on Christine Blasey Ford * Nancy on getting two black eyes* Speaking of getting hit in the face…* Ta-ta dresses and murdering clothes* “You’re the man now.”* Celebrity as vehicle for the conflicts and social anxieties of our time* PopRocks! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

Nancy Rommelmann and Sarah Hepola are back! Talking about: + Why they love the Ben Dreyfuss essay "The World is Not Full of Monsters" + Who they listen to in the bathtub (Nancy: Elon Musk's new TED talk; Sarah: Ben Franklin by Ken Burns) + "Who is Max Boot? Did he write for Gawker?" + And speaking of Gawker... + The NYT interview with 8 "conservative" men + Who's allowed to say the C-word and why they're in favor of bringing back "twat" (it's funny!) + The hell that are women's spas and why the one they'd open would be called Fuck Your Intentions + Are 100% of hitchhikers murdered by serial killers or nah? + Virtual romances are intense! + Why Nancy is the "#1 Nancy" of the two Sarah knows. (The other is a robot.) And much more!EPISODE NOTES"9th and Hennepin," by Tom WaitsMuseum of Jurassic TechnologyJoe Frank official website"The World is Not Filled with Monsters," by Ben DreyfussBen Dreyfuss SubstackElon Musk TED Talk 2022Benjamin Franklin by Ted Burns (PBS)The Witches, by Stacey Schiff"The Things I'm Afraid to Write About," by Sarah HepolaNormal People, by Sally Rooney"The 'Pity Me!' Personal Essay" in Gawker"The 8 Conservative Men Are Making No Apologies" in NYT This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

Entanglements, they're everywhere! In this episode, Nancy Rommelmann and Sarah Hepola look at: + The Will Smith-Jada Pinkett Smith turmoil + The Johnny Depp-Amber Heard mess + Online's "cruelty in the name of justice!" flamers Plus the modern complications of monogamy, Veronica Lake's hair (good!), the world of child actors in Hollywood (mostly bad), why John Updike got it right when he said, "Celebrity is a mask that eats into the face," why Sarah stands with the bed-poopers, and more!EPISODE NOTES"You can't just use me for social media." Jada Pinkett-Smith/Will Smith video"Dread Carpet," Bill Maher on 2020's Depressing Oscar Best Pics"I spoke up against sexual violence—and faced our culture's wrath. That has to change." Amber Heard Opinion piece (WaPo)"Julia Louis-Dreyfuss's Last Fuckable Day" "The Things I'm Afraid to Write About," by Sarah Hepola (Atlantic)"Jena at 15: A Childhood in Hollywood," by Nancy Rommelmann (LA Weekly) This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

Nancy Rommelmann and Sarah Hepola hop back into the studio to talk Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders, faking orgasms, crying (women v. men), why young Ben Franklin is hot (electricity!), why Sarah always dated Tom Waits, Nancy's religious experience at a Trail Blazers game, and much more!EPSIODE NOTESFan-cam dancing to "Since You Been Gone" at Spurs game"America's Girls," podcast about the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders that Sarah Hepola co-created and narratesBlackout: Remembering the Things I Drank to Forget, by Sarah HepolaTo the Bridge: A True Story of Motherhood and Murder, by Nancy Rommelmann"I Always Dated Tom Waits," by Sarah Hepola (Salon)"Blackouts and Sexpots" podcast with Nancy Rommelmann and Sarah Hepola This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

Journalist, author, and podcast series creator Sarah Hepola and Nancy Rommelmann met online two weeks ago and decided they needed to speak for about 80 hours. On deck today: Hepola's recent essay "The Things I'm Afraid to Write About" and why she isn't afraid anymore; her 2015 memoir, "Blackout: Remembering the Things I Drank to Forget" and the difference between a blackout and passing out; why both she and Rommelmann needed to keep up with dudes (and some hazards therein), and how cancel culture is like bulimia. Tune in for what turned out to be the first Smoke ‘Em If You Got ‘Em convo!"The Things I'm Afraid to Write About", by Sarah Hepola, published in The Atlantic on March 12, 2022Blackout: Remembering the Things I Drank to Forget, by Sarah Hepola This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe