The hosts behind the podcasts The Unspeakable and Smoke ‘Em were just sitting around being all heterodoxy when lo! The call came from the newly formed University of Austin: Want to come to Dallas to discuss the current state of media, whether feminism has impacted the desire to raise children, how we treat the work of artists whose behaviors we don’t agree with, and to answer student questions along the lines of, for instance, how are you a “feminine woman”? Yes please!And so Meghan Daum, Sarah, and Nancy took the stage last Thursday at Old Parkland, an eye-popping and glorious campus founded in 1984 and now owned by real estate billionaire Harlan Crow (yes, that Harlan Crow). The conversation was hosted by the Mill Institute, an initiative that works in “educational settings to explore and challenge the entrenched thinking that leads to a breakdown of conversation on contentious issues.” Our moderator was Ilana Redstone, the faculty director of the Mill Institute and associate professor of sociology at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. See if you can guess which one of us remembered to take pictures!No paywall because we love you AND because we trust you to become a paid subscriber right… now!Nancy here. It was 15 minutes before sound check when my daughter and I decided to scoot around Old Parkland for a few minutes. I mean, the place is crazy gorgeous, very grand, we get a few steps out of the building and …“Is that a bar?” my daughter asks. It is, right there on campus and a stone’s throw from where we will be speaking, and I mean, we do have 15 minutes.It’s a Negroni for Tavie, a glass of rose for me, which we might have had plenty of time to sip but for the bartender, a guy who had many many stories to tell before making the drinks. Which was fine! He was entertaining and sweet and very funny, and if I had to lay money, I’d say he might also do stand-up (or should). As he went finally to grab the drinks, Tavie looked at who was at the bar with us, maybe 15 people, all dudes, in button-down shirts but not fancy.“These guys are probably younger than me,” said Tavie, who is 33. Maybe so. Also, we were definitely not in Fort Greene. “I like preppy guys,” she said. Me too.We brought our cocktails with us for sound check. The camera guy told me I better keep my legs crossed, because the way the cameras were positioned, below the stage, made it, um …“It is kind of Sharon Stone,” said Sarah, referring to the then-scandalous scene in Basic Instinct, and you know what? She was right!Anyway, Stone is not the beautiful girl I referred to above. That would be my girl. Thanks for subscribing! This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comNancy reports from storm-strewn Tulsa while Sarah reports from the future, where they discuss:* The worst storm in Tulsa since 2007, not that the news is covering it* Sarah has a new boyfriend, and he is exactly one day old* The predictive genius of the movie Her* Is it cheating if you’re fooling around with an AI?* Do we have to tell our partners everything?* The future where Siri becomes personalized, and we all get AI assistants* The difference between “falling in love” and “being in love”* A new season of The Bear is coming* Is Nancy’s Native American accent offensive?* Sherman Alexie’s The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian* Black Mirror is back, baby!* UATX event with Nancy, Sarah, and Meghan Daum

Good morning from the Delta Lounge at LaGuardia airport. Got here from the pad in Chinatown and through security (thanks, Clear!) in 25 minutes, a record. En route to Oklahoma, where this happened yesterday. Also in Texas, where I’ll be headed Monday or Tuesday, and eventually on Thursday to Dallas, for an on-stage event with the University of Austin (yes in Dallas, though apparently there are more local digs in the works) with Hepola and Meghan Daum. The event is for students-only but UATX is growing - check them out.I interrupt the usual Pie Talk by reading an essay as, alas, I have not been making much pie or anything else, the only thing in my refrigerator are condiments and Diet Coke and maybe a half-bottle of wine. At least Cameron Diaz’s has some salad…So I mention in the episode a short book/manual/pdf thingie written by two genre authors about 15 years ago, about the ways and whys of self-publishing. I thought it was called “Be the Monkey,” and maybe it is, but alas, I cannot find it. What I can find are oodles of other books about self-publishing as it’s gone so mainstream and become for many so lucrative. I mean, hello Colleen Hoover, who knows the trick to success (and practices it better than any of us) is to write write write; there lies the radiance.I did yesterday, over on Make More Pie, and the response has been gratifying. It’s the piece I read for you here. Go ahead and subscribe over there if you have not already, and thank you.Onto the deliciousness! Do try this one, which is just in time for zucchini season, which lasts at least a week (though it won’t) and, I am told, freezes beautifully.Must-Try, Super-Moist Zucchini Bread from Alexandra’s Kitchen* Scant 2 cups (227 g) flour * ¾ teaspoon baking powder* ¾ teaspoon baking soda* 1 teaspoon cinnamon, optional* 1 teaspoon kosher salt* 1 cup light (213 g) brown sugar* ½ cup (100 g) granulated sugar* ¾ cup vegetable oil* 1 teaspoon vanilla extract, optional* 2 eggs, lightly beaten* 2½ cups grated zucchini (12–16 oz.)* Preheat the oven to 350˚F. Grease a 8.5 x 4.5-inch loaf pan or a 10 x 5-inch loaf pan if using as much as a pound of zucchini (see notes above). For easy removal, line the pan with a sheet of parchment paper that hangs over the edges. * Whisk together first five ingredients. In a separate bowl, whisk remaining ingredients except zucchini. Add zucchini to the flour mixture and toss to coat. Add dry to wet and stir till until combined. Pour into pan. Bake until toothpick comes out clean, about 45 minutes to 1 hour. If you have an instant read thermometer, it should register 205ºF or above. (Note: Every oven is different, and different pans conduct heat differently —  be patient with the cooking. It may take 20-30 minutes more. With the longer cooking time, the bread shouldn’t burn, but if you are noticing the bread getting too brown, cover it with foil.)* Let bread cool for 15 minutes in pan, then transfer to a cooling rack to cool completely before slicing. She also offers a step-by step video! This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comThis week, we tackle:* Elizabeth Gilbert’s para-social relationship with her fans* Victimhood as status, online campaigns as feel-good mirage* Will Sarah defend Elizabeth Gilbert? Yes, she will.* Our Moderate MILF watched “The Idol,” and she has thoughts!* Is HBO’s new show a critique of our hyper-sexualized world, or a victim of it?* Which Britney Spears was the hottest Britney Spears? * Tom Wolfe gives a wedgie to the world* The greatness that is Rick Rubin

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comNancy has messy beach hair, and Sarah is expanding her yin, so this week we tackle:* The meltdown at CNN* Who is Chris Licht, and no, it’s not L-i-c-k-e-d. (Note: This episode was recorded before Licht resigned on June 7.)* Can cable news be saved?* FAIR vs. FIRE, and the push from the center* Walking is not exercise?!?* A New York Times arts critic skewers Hannah Gadsby’s Picasso show* Sarah and Nancy take the over-under on said show’s popularity* The sleazy 90s bad-good thrill that is HBO’s The Idol* The line between women’s sexual agency and women’s sexual exploitation* The joys of local newsAnd much more!

Good Saturday morning, or I guess Sunday for you, from Buena Park, California, where the Knott’s Berry Farm rollercoaster shushes past every few minutes, accompanied by screaming. It’s like being in a Jordan Peele movie! Being in Los Angeles reminds me of coming to Los Angeles, which reminds me of Tim and what, as a rural Oklahoma boy, he wanted with every meal, an item a New York City ate maybe twice a year, at the holidays, namely: Gravy.But not this kind! Cleaning out my mom’s pantry earlier this year I found a can of this and, more as a science experiment, decided to see what might be done with it. After adding salt, pepper, a splash of sherry and some butter, my best solution was to pour the stuff down the drain, really, save yourself the trouble (and the money!) and make homemade, recipe in episode notes.As I relate in the episode, I met Tim Sampson on the PBS miniseries Roanoak, about the lost colony thereof. I am not sure whether this opening canoe scene is the same one I tell you about, the one where Tim saved me from drowning. But maybe!I mention here that, after Tim and I fell in love, I followed him out to California. I bought a used station wagon in upstate New York and slept in truck stops on my way west. My first stop was somewhere west of Pittsburgh. It was late, and the all-night diner was open. I sat at the serpentine counter and ordered a grilled cheese and watched the waitress pout coffee for a man in a Carhartt (or similar) jacket and watched them quietly talk, watched as she lingered holding the coffee pot. My impression was that there was intimacy here, maybe not a relationship so much as a conversation picked up each time he stopped in. Or maybe it was just this one time. Maybe this was her gift, her job. I am sure I had some sort of reading material that I ignored as I watched them.It was not until four years later that I wondered whether I always somehow knew the work I was headed for. By that time, the drive cross-country yielded what’s below.Episode notes: “The neighbors at Curson Avenue in West Hollywood were mostly Armenian, including the dozen or so housedress-clad older women in the apartment complex next door, women who would verily ululate at our fence when they realized we were having another get-together for two hundred. On the other side was a two-story complex where my brother’s friend Todd lived. Todd was a plumber who shared an apartment with his mother-in-law, an Armenian widow in black, and his SoCal, short-shorts-wearing wife. At twenty-four, Todd already had two kids, the first born blind. Todd spent every afternoon in our yard smoking pot, and that’s where he was when his wife banged open the screen door and stood on their balcony. “TAHD!” she screamed, “I’M PREGNANT AGAIN!” “Cool,” Todd squeaked, trying not to exhale. - “Meet the Neighbors,” from Forty Bucks and a Dream, Stories of Los Angeles, by Nancy RommelmannDances With Wolves was a pretty massive cultural event, especially so for Native actors, as many more historical westerns were about to be made and provide employment.Many of these young actors started down to LA from the rez, some of whom wound up hanging at the home in Hollywood where Tim and I lived with our baby girl.These included Rodney Grant and the late Steve Reevis. Tantoo Cardinal had appeared in an earlier movie with Tim called War Party.Will Sampson talking about how all the Indian heroes for kids are dead. I’ve told the story (scroll down) of how my daughter Tafv wound up playing the part of “Gram” on Reservation Dogs. The below does not include her opening scene with Lily Gladstone:Tafv went on to set decorate an independent film called Fancy Dance, which also stars Lily, who also stars in another movie you might have heard of.You see this trailer, and her appearance in Rez Dogs, and it does not need to be explained that her acting is otherworldly. Writing about Josh Drum and all the other young Native actors who passed through our home and whom I cooked and cooked and happily cooked for, in 1990-1992. “Taking My Ex Back In (for His Own Good),” by Nancy Rommelmann (New York Times “Modern Love”)I cannot carve out the video of Tim going “Mmmm!” but it’s here, scroll through. The second to last image is from our daughter’s wedding day, when we knew Tim was terminal. Okay okay, let’s make some gravy. It’s flexible, just remember the ratios and up them depending on how much you want to make:2 tablespoons fat or meat drippings, 2 tablespoons flour, 2 CUPS stock or other liquids. (I accidentally said tablespoons in the audio.) You can play with this in any number of ways; add some wine or sherry or fresh-chopped herbs. It’s super-easy and makes dinner festive!GravyAdd chicken fat or beef drippings to a frying pad. Heat over medium heat until bubbly. Using a rubberized whisk, add flour. Cook two minutes, stirring constantly, until flour takes on a bit of color. Add about a 1/4 cup of liquid and whisk, Mixture will seize up. Add another 1/4 cup and keep whisking until gravy loosens. Continue adding and whisking until you have a smooth gravy. Add salt and pepper to taste.Gravy is very flexible! Using cream for up to half your stock in a beef gravy is lovely.And please, I beg of you, send me your best biscuit recipes xx This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

Atlantic writer and essayist extraordinaire Caitlin Flanagan joins Smoke ‘Em to discuss:* Who saw the ending coming?* The “failson” that was Kendall, and why does Sarah want to fix him?* The louche character of Roman, nihilist* Shiv meets the fate of her mother, her worst fear* Why the Greg theory of victory was never gonna wash* A father’s love: The real narrative drive of the show* “It takes three generations of American life to make a Shakespeare scholar”* Freud’s repetition compulsion* The funeral episode and the speech that was Nietzsche meets The Fountainhead* Shiv and Tom: “A change has come / she’s under my thumb”* That nasty Jeremy Strong profile in the New Yorker* Why “privilege” is a shallow metric to talk about a human life This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comTopics covered:* Which American cities have the highest percentage of people wanking at work, and evidence that we've entered “a golden age of masturbation” for better or worse* Is Ozempic also an anti-addiction drug? The secondary benefits are compelling* How is the Martin Amis novel Money like foie gras?* Amis, who died last week, joins the list of voices we miss: Tom Wolfe, David Foster Wallace, Christopher Hitchens* How Anna Nicole Smith shape-shifted into the American dream, and what it cost* The documentary scene about Smith’s life that super-disturbed Nancy* That time Sarah almost got plastic surgery* The men in our hot boxesAnd much more!

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comThe writer/podcaster/documentarian Jon Ronson joins Nancy and Sarah, and they could not be more excited. Highlights include:* Jon compliments Sarah, Sarah swoons* The podcast inspired when Jon’s 11-year-old son asked if he knew PornHub* Jon’s pronunciation of porn (“pohhhhhn”) and the strange spectacle of adult entertainment, including two-camera orgies and bespoke porn* The sin of “both-sidesism”* The hardest story Jon ever had to report* Why Jon turned down Piers Morgan* Jon’s new Audible podcast “The Debutante” about the mystery of Carol Howe, who may or may not have been able to prevent the Oklahoma City bombing* Dial-A-Racist?* Informants get $25 a day?? * “Things Fell Apart” season two on the way!* The problem with defining people by small slivers of their lives* A judge caught masturbating during trial and other untold storiesGo see Jon in London! He’ll be appearing at two events later this month, a May 24 “Things Fell Apart LIVE!” and a non-fiction writing workshop on the 28.Things fell apart, but we try to put them back together. Why not become a paid subscriber?

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comIn this exclusive North American interview, Wallis covers the following:* The nature of false accusations, borderline personality diagnoses, and whether “mutual abuse” exists* How live-tweeting the UK trial “fed a rapacious audience” that went tribal during the pandemic, and how his tweets got more than 10 million views* Why “believe women” clashes with a journalist’s mandate to question everything* Can you ever accurately litigate something that happened behind closed doors?* How one bad marriage wound up in two different legal judgments* Is the court of public opinion more important than real courts?* Curious encounters with American food, including Blondies (“what are they?”) and half-and-half (a big thumbs-down)* Jimmy Saville, Britain’s #MeToo poster boy* The best Australian comedy series right now* Period drama, by which we mean menstruation* The greatness of Eurovision* How many inches is Sarah’s integrity? The answer may surprise you!We hustle out of love, but it never pays the bills. Consider becoming a paid subscriber.