The Covert Narcissism Podcast

They’ve stopped yelling. They’re going to therapy. They’re more “attentive.” So why does it still feel like nothing’s changed? In this final episode of our 4-part series with Dr. Anthony Mazzella, we dive into one of the most misunderstood dynamics in narcissistic relationships: the collapse of guilt into shame—and how it sabotages real change. We explore: Why narcissistically inclined individuals can’t tolerate guilt How shame masquerades as self-awareness but blocks true repair The difference between behavior modification and emotional transformation Why surface-level change without integration eventually falls apart If you've ever felt confused by a partner who seems to be "trying"—but still leaves you feeling alone, invalidated, or unsafe—this episode will help you make sense of what’s really happening. This is not just a conversation about narcissism. It’s a conversation about what real healing looks like—and what happens when we mistake shame for growth. DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

When the Child You Protected Believes the NarcissistIt’s a betrayal that cuts deeper than most people can understand—when your adult child, the one you protected for years, turns on you and takes the side of the covert narcissist. If you’re walking through this devastating experience, you are not alone. I’m opening a small, supportive Zoom coaching group just for parents facing this heartbreak. This group is a safe place to process the grief, confusion, and isolation of being cast as the villain in a story you spent your life protecting them from. We’ll meet weekly to work through the pain, understand why this happens, and rebuild your peace, identity, and strength—together. This is your space to feel seen, supported, and empowered.Spots are limited. Learn more and reserve your place at www.covertnarcissism.com DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What if that apology wasn’t about you at all?What if the moment that looked like remorse was really a carefully constructed move to restore a fractured image? In this powerful continuation of our series with Dr. Anthony Mazzella from The Narcissism Decoder podcast, we dive beneath the surface of “I’m sorry” to explore what’s really going on: the tangled relationship between guilt, shame, narcissism, and the illusion of empathy. We break down a real-life example of a man spiraling in frustration, seemingly finding redemption through kindness — but is it guilt, or is it shame-fueled self-preservation? This episode is essential for anyone trying to make sense of the mixed signals in narcissistic relationships, especially for those raising or supporting adult children who are still struggling with internalized shame from growing up in a narcissistic home. We explore: The difference between authentic guilt and toxic shame How narcissistic defenses hijack true connection Why timing matters in therapy and healing How to recognize image repair masquerading as empathy Why curiosity — not judgment — is the key to growth Whether you’ve lived with a covert narcissist, parented with one, or are watching your adult child unravel years of emotional confusion, this episode offers clarity and direction. 🎧 Subscribe so you don’t miss any of this series and future episodes that guide you back to your truth. DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Baiting is one of the most maddening—and most misunderstood—tactics used by covert narcissists. It’s the emotional equivalent of poking you with a stick just to watch you react, then sitting back and saying, “Wow… look how angry you are.” In this episode, we unpack exactly how covert narcissists bait you into emotional reactions—and why they benefit from pushing your buttons. From passive-aggressive digs and guilt trips to carefully crafted public humiliation, we break down the subtle ways they set you up to explode while they keep their mask perfectly intact. You’ll hear: Real-life examples of narcissistic baiting Why they want you to react (and what they gain from it) Sarcastic comebacks you’ll want to say—but probably shouldn’t Tools for staying grounded, using the Gray Rock method, and protecting your peace If you’ve ever walked away from a conversation thinking, “How did I just become the bad guy again?”—this episode is for you. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Part two of a 4 part series on Guilt and Shame with guest, Dr. Anthony Mazzella, Psychotherapist & Host of The Narcissism Decoder Podcast What if the guilt you carry… isn’t actually guilt at all? In Part Two of this powerful conversation, Renee and Dr. Anthony Mazzella dive into the subtle but life-changing difference between guilt and shame—and why confusing the two can keep you stuck in cycles of self-blame, anxiety, and emotional paralysis. You’ll learn: Why guilt is actually a sign of emotional health—and a driver of change How shame stunts growth while guilt motivates repair The difference between healthy guilt, toxic guilt, and emotional manipulation Why narcissists often fake guilt through apology—but never actually change How to recognize when you're feeling shame, not guilt, and what to do about it The role of empathy, boundaries, and emotional development in healing Why we must give our pain words—and why shame so often lives unnamed If you’ve ever said, “I feel so guilty…” but couldn’t put your finger on why—or felt weighed down by an apology you can’t stop making—this episode is for you. This is the emotional fork in the road: one path leads to healing. The other keeps you stuck in someone else’s story. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

With a covert narcissist, the outcome is always the same: you’re the problem. No matter how gently you speak, how carefully you tread, or how hard you try—somehow, it always comes back to you. That’s not bad communication. That’s emotional abuse wrapped in manipulation, guilt, and gaslighting. In this episode, we walk through a choose-your-own-adventure version of life with a covert narcissist—where every decision leads to blame, confusion, or emotional fallout. Whether it’s handling a parenting issue, grabbing lunch with a friend, or simply protecting your child’s mental health, you’re forced into impossible choices with no right answers. You’ll hear: Why life with a covert narcissist feels like a rigged game The emotional toll of always being the villain in their story The healthy option you never get—and why that’s the deepest grief How to begin choosing yourself even when every road feels unsafe If you’ve been stuck in a cycle of trying harder, only to end up blamed again—you need this episode. It’s not you. It was never you. And it’s time to stop carrying the weight of someone else’s dysfunction. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Part one of a 4 part series on Guilt and Shame with guest, Dr. Anthony Mazzella, Psychotherapist & Host of The Narcissism Decoder Podcast What if the root of so much emotional pain, self-sabotage, and confusion isn’t who you are—but what you've carried? In this powerful first episode of a two-part series, Renee is joined by Dr. Anthony Mazzella to explore how shame, not arrogance or ego, often sits at the center of narcissistic traits—both in ourselves and in the people who have hurt us. Together, they unpack: What shame really is—and how it’s different from guilt How shame starts in early childhood through misattunement, rejection, or humiliation The invisible ways shame shapes identity, emotions, and behavior How narcissistic defenses like projection, withdrawal, and perfectionism are fueled by shame Why people-pleasing is often a mask for hidden shame How religious, cultural, or family systems can unknowingly create shame-based beliefs Shame isn’t just an emotion—it becomes a lens through which we see ourselves and the world. It’s not something we feel—it’s something we become. And unless we learn how to name it, it quietly dictates how we love, hide, lash out, or shut down. Whether you’ve lived with a covert narcissist or find yourself stuck in patterns you don’t fully understand, this episode will help you name the invisible wound behind it all—and take the first step toward healing. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Leaving a covert narcissist isn’t a single event—it’s a process.In this episode, we break down the myth of the dramatic midnight escape and explore the emotional, psychological, and logistical realities that make leaving so complex. If you’ve ever asked yourself, “Why didn’t I leave sooner?” or been judged by others for how long it’s taken to get out, this conversation is for you. We’ll talk about the mental rewiring survivors must do, the fear of not being believed, the self-doubt that comes from years of gaslighting, and the real-life obstacles—like finances, kids, and safety—that make a clean break nearly impossible. This episode is a reminder: leaving doesn’t start with a suitcase—it starts with truth. And every quiet step you take toward reclaiming your mind, your freedom, and your self-worth… counts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Why do so many people stay in relationships with covert narcissists for years—sometimes decades? This episode is a raw, honest, and deeply validating exploration of the emotional tug-of-war that keeps survivors stuck in toxic dynamics. I open up about my own 20+ year marriage to a covert narcissist—why I stayed, why I didn’t see it sooner, and why that doesn’t mean there was something wrong with me. Because covert narcissists are masters at being “just enough.” Just enough good to make you stay. Just enough bad to make you question everything. Just enough charm to keep others fooled. Just enough cruelty to break you behind closed doors. Their entire strategy is built on almosts—on the hope that maybe, just maybe, this time it will be different. If you’ve ever asked yourself, “Why didn’t I leave?” or “Why didn’t I see it sooner?”—this episode is for you. You are not alone. You are not crazy. You are not weak. You were trauma bonded to someone who knew exactly how to keep you stuck. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

When you're in a relationship with a covert narcissist, peace is often a performance—maintained at the expense of your own emotional well-being. This episode of The Covert Narcissism Podcast explores how covert narcissists condition those around them to bend, sacrifice, and stay silent just to avoid upsetting them. From partners who tell their kids “just do what your dad wants” to adult children asked to adjust their lives to keep the narcissistic parent happy, this episode exposes the high cost of maintaining “peace” in a toxic dynamic. We’ll dive into real-life examples of how covert narcissists weaponize their moods to manipulate and control, how families get pulled into the dance of appeasement, and how to begin breaking this generational cycle. If you’ve ever felt responsible for someone else’s happiness—or guilty for standing your ground—this episode is for you. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.