The Covert Narcissism Podcast

In Part 2 of my conversation with Sarma Melngailis, we dive into the turning point—the awakening after covert narcissistic abuse. Sarma shares the moment she began to see the manipulation clearly, how she learned to gray rock and set boundaries, and what it means to find freedom after years of psychological control. Together, we unpack the neurobiology of cognitive dissonance, the pull of trauma bonds, and the courage it takes to finally close the door for good. In this episode: The “ice queen” strategy and how to emotionally disengage Why closure can be the most dangerous trap How cognitive dissonance and fear keep survivors stuck Rebuilding self-trust after coercion and public judgment Sarma’s insight into the psychological and spiritual aftermath of abuse offers hope to anyone finding their way back to self-trust and peace. Her memoir The Girl With The Duck Tattoo continues to open eyes about coercion, consent, and resilience after narcissistic abuse. Learn more about my coaching and recovery programs at www.covertnarcissism.com Share your thoughts below—how have you learned to reclaim your voice after manipulation? THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Triangulation is one of the covert narcissist’s most insidious tools — because it’s quiet, invisible, and devastating.It’s how they control the narrative, twist communication, and turn the people you love against each other — all while pretending to be the calm, reasonable “peacekeeper.” In this episode, Renee shares two powerful stories that reveal how triangulation slowly poisons relationships: The first, a marriage where everything seems fine on the surface — until every conversation starts getting filtered through one partner’s control. The second, a family where a covertly narcissistic parent quietly pits two siblings against each other for decades. Through these stories and a heartfelt reflection, you’ll learn how triangulation erodes trust, damages connection, and keeps survivors trapped in confusion and self-doubt. Join Renee next week as she continues this conversation with how to step out of triangulation and begin repairing the relationships it’s damaged. Because once you see the pattern, you can finally start breaking free from it. DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Sarma Melngailis—best known from the Netflix docuseries Bad Vegan—joins me to reveal the story the headlines never told. In this powerful and deeply human conversation, Sarma opens up about covert narcissistic abuse, repeated manipulation, and the long road of self-discovery that followed. We explore how empathy, idealism, and even neurodivergence can make survivors more vulnerable to covert abuse—and how these same traits can also become sources of strength and healing. In Part 1, we go beyond the public narrative into: The early relationship patterns that mirrored covert narcissistic abuse Why intelligent, capable people can still miss the warning signs The link between sensitivity, empathy, and manipulation Finding self-compassion after shame and public judgment Sarma’s new memoir The Girl With The Duck Tattoo reveals the deeper truth of her experience—a story of narcissistic abuse, manipulation, and resilience. If you’ve ever felt unseen or misunderstood, this episode will remind you that your empathy is not your weakness—it’s your superpower. Learn more about my coaching and recovery programs at www.covertnarcissism.com. THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You didn’t just wake up one day and decide to slap them.That moment — the one that now fills you with shame and self-blame — didn’t come out of nowhere. It’s been building for a long time. In this episode, Renee Swanson explores what happens when years of emotional invalidation, manipulation, and gaslighting finally push you past your breaking point. When your calm exterior cracks, and your reaction — whether yelling, slamming a door, or even lashing out — leaves you wondering, “What’s wrong with me?” With deep compassion and truth, Renee explains the nervous system’s response to chronic emotional stress, how covert narcissists weaponize your reactions, and why a single moment does not define your character. You’ll hear a powerful story of one survivor who reached her limit — and how Renee helped her see that vulnerability and accountability can exist alongside self-forgiveness. This episode isn’t about condoning reactive behavior. It’s about understanding it — and breaking free from the shame that keeps survivors stuck in silence. If you’ve ever felt deep remorse after snapping, this conversation will help you see your humanity with new eyes. DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What happens when survivors of covert narcissistic abuse come together in one safe space? At our recent CNG retreat, fifteen women gathered with fear, doubt, hope, and courage. Some were terrified to share their stories, afraid of judgment or dismissal. Others were overflowing with relief at finally being heard. In this episode, I reflect on the lessons and transformations from that weekend: the power of connection, the validation that comes from shared stories, and the healing that happens when silence turns into vulnerability. If you’ve ever wondered whether community can help you heal from covert narcissistic abuse, this conversation is for you. Your story matters, and you deserve to be heard without judgment. If you’re ready to take the next step toward healing, check out my coaching services at www.covertnarcissism.com. And don’t forget to subscribe for more empowering episodes like this one. DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Have you ever wondered why just being yourself feels like walking through a minefield with a covert narcissist? Why your joy, your truth, your boundaries, even your growth seem to set off explosions? In this episode, we unpack exactly why the covert narcissist sees you as a threat. From your truth that cracks their carefully crafted image, to your feelings that highlight their emptiness, to your independence, awareness, and growth that they can’t control—every healthy part of you feels like danger to them. But what they fear most is actually your greatest liberation: your authenticity and wholeness. If you’ve felt like love, honesty, or boundaries only made things worse, this episode will help you see the patterns more clearly—and remind you that your strength is not the problem. DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In Part 2 of my conversation with singer-songwriter Caryn Dixon, we go deeper into the journey of leaving—and staying gone—from covert narcissistic abuse. Caryn opens up about the staggering reality that it takes an average of seven attempts to leave an abusive relationship before it finally sticks, and why so many survivors find themselves pulled back into the cycle again and again. She shares the powerful response her video on this topic has received—thousands of comments, shares, and private messages from survivors who see their own story reflected in hers. We talk about the heartbreak of repeated attempts, the invisible battles survivors fight to break free, and the hope that comes when we begin to live on the outside of the cage rather than inside it. This is a conversation about resilience, the importance of community, and the way art and storytelling can give survivors permission to believe that freedom is possible. Learn more about Caryn Dixon and her work at caryndixonmusic.com DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What happens when you stop pouring all your energy into someone else and start investing it back into yourself? In a healthy relationship, your self-care is welcomed and even celebrated. Your partner enjoys the space to recharge too, and both of you come back stronger. But in a relationship with a covert narcissist, pulling back your supply—the constant attention, caretaking, and emotional labor—can trigger explosions, implosions, and childlike tantrums. In this episode, Renee explores: What “supply” really means in covert narcissistic relationships The stark difference between healthy partners and covert narcissists when you focus on self-care Real stories of explosions (“So you don’t care about me anymore?!”) and implosions (the dreaded silent treatment) How pulling back gently can expose the genuine nature of your relationship Practical ways to reclaim your energy without cruelty, only clarity If your relationship crumbles the moment you take care of yourself, it’s not love—it’s control. Your worth is not found in endlessly giving yourself away. Your worth is already inside of you. ✨ Takeaway: Self-care is not betrayal. It’s the clearest test of whether your relationship is mutual love or one-sided survival. Your story matters, and you deserve to be heard without judgment. If you’re ready to take the next step toward healing, check out my coaching services at [your website]. And don’t forget to subscribe for more empowering episodes like this one. DISCLAIMER THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this first half of my two-part conversation with singer-songwriter Caryn Dixon, we explore the story behind her new EP Bird in a Cage—a raw and vulnerable collection of songs written out of her experience of covert narcissistic abuse. Caryn shares how life inside the “perfect couple” image felt more like a shrinking cage, one that left her hiding her pain, questioning her reality, and carrying invisible bruises. We talk about the silence, sulking, and subtle manipulations that made her doubt herself, the heartbreaking difficulty of explaining covert abuse to the outside world, and the powerful shift that came when she began to put her truth into music. If you’ve ever felt trapped behind bars no one else could see, Caryn’s story will resonate deeply. This is a conversation about breaking silence, reclaiming creativity, and finding freedom—one voice, one song, and one brave step at a time. A big part of Caryn’s mission is to empower people—especially women who’ve felt stuck or like they’ve had to choose between family and chasing their dreams. Through her music and platform, she hopes to show that it’s possible to build a life that honors both. Known for her blend of traditional country roots and modern storytelling, Caryn brings a genuine energy to every stage and song. Her growing career isn’t about chasing fame—it’s about building something real, one story, one listener, and one step at a time. Learn more about Caryn Dixon at https://www.caryndixonmusic.com/ DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In today’s episode, I step away from the usual format to share something deeply personal and profoundly important. This is a tribute—a celebration of life—for a member of our community whose story ended too soon. For her privacy, I will call her Mary. Mary’s life was marked by decades of devotion, sacrifice, and quiet endurance. Though her family didn’t see her pain, and though her reality went unacknowledged in her death, we will not let her story be erased. Today, I honor Mary’s strength, her love, and her life—and in doing so, I honor every man and woman who is living Mary’s nightmare. This episode is for all of you who feel invisible, broken inside, or uncared for. It’s a reminder that your sacrifices matter, your tears matter, and your life matters. Abuse doesn’t just live in the shadows of your heart—it takes a toll on your body, your spirit, and your very sense of home. But still, you carry strength beyond measure, even if no one else sees it. So join me as we pause to honor Mary’s story and, through her, celebrate the lives of all survivors of covert narcissistic abuse. DISCLAIMER DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.