The Covert Narcissism Podcast

How someone treats the family dog or cat can tell you a lot about covert narcissism, and it can reveal what you’ve been living with all along. In this episode, Renee Swanson explains how a covert narcissist treats their pets: as supply, as a trophy, as something to control, and sometimes as a pawn in separation and divorce. She shares the story of her German shepherd, whose reactions confirmed what Renee had spent years doubting in herself. If you’ve been walking on eggshells, wondering whether your reactions were reasonable, this conversation offers validation and a new kind of evidence: the witness who had no reason to lie. Renee also covers love bombing and neglect, triangulation, and practical steps for protecting your pet during narcissistic abuse recovery. Renee’s book, This Is Not Okay: Escaping the Invisible Grip of Covert Narcissistic Abuse, is available now on Amazon and Audible. Learn more at www.covertnarcissism.com Ready to move from understanding to action? Join Renee’s coaching program at covertnarcissism.com. Subscribe to the Covert Narcissism Podcast so you never miss an episode. The information provided by Renee Swanson, the Covert Narcissism Podcast, and CNG Life Coaching is for educational purposes only. It is not intended to be used for diagnosis and is not a substitute for professional clinical care. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for guidance specific to your situation. The content discussed in this podcast reflects general patterns of narcissism and is based on Renee Swanson’s personal experiences as well as stories shared with her over many years. Nothing in this content claims that any specific person has narcissism, and it should not be used to refer to or identify any specific individual as a narcissist. Linking to or reposting this material to support such a claim is an unauthorized misuse of this content. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

When we think of financial abuse, we usually picture the partner who earns the money and controls every dollar. Liz Tenuto’s story was the opposite. She was working six days a week to support her household while her husband quietly took over her bank accounts, her passwords, and her credit cards. In this episode, Renee talks with Liz Tenuto, known to millions as The Workout Witch. Liz is a somatic educator and nervous-system practitioner who has taught more than 250,000 people body-based nervous-system regulation, and she’s the author of When the Body Speaks: How Somatic Healing Sets You Free (HarperCollins). Before she built her community, she was trying to get out of an abusive marriage. Liz shares how her husband used a hidden remote access device to reroute her bank alerts and two-factor codes, drain her savings, and run up massive debt on her credit cards, then turned it around on her whenever she asked questions. She and Renee talk about how exhaustion can be used as an abuse tactic, what to do if you suspect financial abuse, how she planned her exit while keeping herself safe, and why “just leave” is never that simple. Liz also opens up about the daily panic attacks and fainting that showed up long before she was ready to connect them to her marriage, even with years of training in trauma and the body. Find Liz on Instagram at theworkoutwitch.com/s/instagram (DM her the word HEAL for a free one-minute somatic exercise), and get her book at https://theworkoutwitch.com/book. Join us next week for part 2 of this inspiring conversation. If this episode resonates with you and you’re ready for deeper support on your own healing journey, Renee’s coaching program is a place to start. Learn more at https://covertnarcissism.com. And so you don’t miss part two of this conversation, make sure you’re subscribed to the show. The Covert Narcissism Podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. Nothing shared here should be taken as professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis or need support, please reach out to a licensed mental health professional. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What is a narcissist, and why does covert narcissism make real closeness feel impossible, no matter how hard you try? This is part two of a two-part series on the two defining characteristics that destroy relationships with a narcissist. Part one covered the lack of empathy. This week, Renee Swanson turns to the other side of the castle door: the lack of vulnerability. Real vulnerability means saying “I was wrong,” “I’m afraid,” “I don’t know,” or “I need you.” For a narcissist, whose sense of self depends on appearing right and in control, those words feel like a threat. So instead of vulnerability, you get defensiveness, blame, and feelings that come out sideways as silence, sarcasm, or punishment. Renee walks through everyday examples in marriage, parenting, work, and money, and explains counterfeit vulnerability. That’s the sob stories and wounded martyrdom that look like openness but are really a way of getting control. She also explains how a lack of vulnerability destroys a relationship over time. Nothing ever gets resolved. You end up carrying all the blame, never truly knowing the person beside you, and walking on eggshells as you learn to read their moods. Finally, she shows what happens when a lack of empathy and a lack of vulnerability meet, and why your own vulnerability can be used against you. If you’re on the path of narcissistic abuse recovery and have wondered why sincere apologies and real repair never came, this episode will help you understand why the problem was never your explanation. If you missed part one, go back and listen to “What Is a Narcissist? Part 1: The Lack of Empathy That Destroys Relationships.” Renee’s new book, This Is Not Okay: Escaping the Invisible Grip of Covert Narcissistic Abuse, is out now. Check it out through Amazon or on her site at www.covertnarcissism.com Ready for support on your own healing journey? Learn about Renee’s coaching program at  www.covertnarcissism.com. Subscribe to the Covert Narcissism Podcast so you never miss an episode. The information provided by Renee Swanson, the Covert Narcissism Podcast, and CNG Life Coaching is for educational purposes only. It is not to be used for diagnosis purposes and is not intended to be a substitute for clinical care. Please consult a health care provider for guidance specific to your case. This material discusses narcissism in general. Renee shares stories from her personal experiences as well as from those she has talked with for several years. Her material does not claim that any specific person has narcissism and should not be used to refer to any specific person as having narcissism. Permission is not granted to link to or repost this material to support an allegation or support a claim that any specific person is a narcissist. That would be an unauthorized misuse of the material and information provided. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

How do you explain emotional abuse to the people around you when you can barely explain it to yourself? In this episode, the roles are reversed. High-conflict divorce coach Eleanor Marks interviews Renee about her new book, This Is Not Okay, and the eleven years of healing behind it. They talk about the "catching a ghost" feeling of self-doubt so many survivors of covert narcissistic abuse know, the kind of abuse that leaves no bruises, why family and friends often can't see what you're living, and how to untangle yourself, whether you stay or leave. Get This Is Not Okay at Amazon or at Renee's website www.covertnarcissism.com Facing a divorce? Eleanor's six-week Divorcing a Covert Narcissist group starts November 9, 2026, on Zoom. Register at www.covertnarcissism.com or contact Eleanor at https://EleanorMarks.net. Ready for deeper support on your own healing journey? Learn about Renee's coaching at www.covertnarcissism.com, and make sure you're subscribed so you never miss an episode. The Covert Narcissism Podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. Nothing shared here should be taken as professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis or need support, please reach out to a licensed mental health professional. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What is a narcissist, really, and how does covert narcissism quietly destroy the closest relationships in your life? The word “narcissist” is everywhere right now, used for everything from a forgotten phone call to a snappy afternoon. But real narcissism isn’t about occasional human mistakes. It’s about consistent patterns that make genuine intimacy impossible. This is part one of a two-part series on the two characteristics that lead the way: a lack of empathy and a lack of vulnerability. Renee Swanson explains it through the image of an old castle door, bolted shut in both directions. Your feelings can’t get in, and their real self never comes out. This week’s focus is the lack of empathy. Many survivors push back on the idea that a narcissist has no empathy, because this person seemed to read them perfectly. Renee explains the difference between cognitive empathy, knowing what you feel, and emotional empathy, caring what you feel. That difference is why the hurtful comments always landed right where it hurts most. She walks through everyday examples, in grief, illness, disappointment, joy, and childhood. And she explains how a lack of empathy, over time, leaves you lonely inside your own relationship, doubting your own feelings, and living with a nervous system that never gets to rest. If you’re on the path of narcissistic abuse recovery and have ever wondered whether your feelings were the problem, this episode will help you see clearly that they weren’t. Next week, in part two, Renee turns to the other side of the door: the lack of vulnerability, counterfeit vulnerability, and what happens when these two traits meet. Renee’s new book, This Is Not Okay: Escaping the Invisible Grip of Covert Narcissistic Abuse, releases October 20, 2026. Ready for support on your own healing journey? Learn about Renee’s coaching program at www.covertnarcissism.com. Subscribe to the Covert Narcissism Podcast so you don’t miss part two next week. The information provided by Renee Swanson, the Covert Narcissism Podcast, and CNG Life Coaching is for educational purposes only. It is not to be used for diagnosis purposes and is not intended to be a substitute for clinical care. Please consult a health care provider for guidance specific to your case. This material discusses narcissism in general. Renee shares stories from her personal experiences as well as from those she has talked with for several years. Her material does not claim that any specific person has narcissism and should not be used to refer to any specific person as having narcissism. Permission is not granted to link to or repost this material to support an allegation or support a claim that any specific person is a narcissist. That would be an unauthorized misuse of the material and information provided. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Every text, email, and social media post you write could end up in front of a judge. In part two of this conversation, Renee and attorney Rebecca Zung get practical about protecting yourself from a narcissist in court, whether you're facing a divorce, a custody case, or a high-conflict co-parent. Rebecca explains what's safe to post when you're looking for support, and why she tells clients to write like they're reporting the news. She explains why building leverage matters more than proving the other person is a narcissist, and how to turn thousands of screenshots into an organized case your lawyer can use. She and Renee also talk about whether you need a "bulldog" lawyer, why you shouldn't give away your leverage too early, and why high-conflict personalities often back down when you finally stand up. Try Slay AI for free at https://slaypro.ai, and find Rebecca on YouTube at https://RebeccaZung.tv and on Instagram at @RebeccaZung. If you're on your own narcissistic abuse recovery journey and want more support, Renee's coaching program is a great next step. Learn more at www.covertnarcissism.com. And if this conversation helped you, make sure you're subscribed so you never miss an episode. The Covert Narcissism Podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. Nothing shared here should be taken as professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis or need support, please reach out to a licensed mental health professional. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In covert narcissism, even the “good” behavior is part of the manipulation. You thought you married Cliff Huxtable, only to find out you married Bill Cosby. If that line lands in your stomach, this episode is for you. So many survivors say, “He’s being good right now,” or “She’s in a good place this week.” But what if those sweet seasons aren’t breaks from the manipulation at all? What if they’re the most effective part of it? Renee introduces a new concept, counterfeit kindness: kindness that looks real, feels real and passes inspection, but has nothing behind it when you need to rely on it. You’ll learn what counterfeit kindness buys a covert narcissist (your attention, love, supply, willingness and trust), why it causes more harm than the obviously bad behavior, and how the cycle of hope and hurt deepens trauma bonding. Renee also shares her own moment of asking, “Is he a good person having a bad month, or a bad person having a good day?” and reads a passage from her new book, This Is Not Okay, about how survivors end up holding the mask in place. You’ll leave with four questions to tell real kindness from counterfeit kindness, plus a simple tool for your narcissistic abuse recovery: giving the character a name, so you can stay clear-headed when the performance starts. If you understand the patterns but still feel stuck in the cycle, coaching can help you take the next step. Learn more about Renee’s coaching program at www.covertnarcissism.com. Subscribe to the Covert Narcissism Podcast so you never miss an episode, and share it with someone who needs to hear it. Renee’s book, This Is Not Okay: Escaping the Invisible Grip of Covert Narcissistic Abuse, releases October 20. Join the mailing list at www.covertnarcissism.com to hear the moment it’s out. The information provided by Renee Swanson, Covert Narcissism Podcast, and CNG Life Coaching is for educational purposes only and is not to be used for diagnosis purposes and not intended to be a substitute for clinical care. Please consult a healthcare provider for guidance specific to your case. This material discusses narcissism in general. Renee shares stories from her personal experience as well as from those she has talked with for several years. Her material does not claim that any specific person has narcissism and should not be used to refer to any specific person as having narcissism. Permission is not granted to link to or repost this material to support any allegation or support a claim that any specific person is a narcissist. That would be an unauthorized misuse of this material and information provided. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What does a narcissist really want in a divorce? It usually isn't money, love, or logic. It's image. In this episode, Renee welcomes back attorney Rebecca Zung, who has spent more than 25 years in family law and now focuses on helping people negotiate with narcissists and other high-conflict personalities. Rebecca explains why covert narcissists protect their image at any cost. She also describes how they quietly control your image by planting seeds with friends and family months before a custody case begins. She and Renee talk about why the goalposts keep moving, why going straight to a subpoena can save you money and stress during discovery, and why your first move before any negotiation happens inside you. Rebecca also shares her JADE rule (don't justify, argue, defend, or explain), how a calm nervous system leads to better decisions, and why every bad behavior is a "gift" to write down. Find Rebecca's work on YouTube at https://RebeccaZung.tv and try Slay AI for free at https://slaypro.ai. If this episode resonates with you and you're ready for deeper support on your own healing journey, Renee's coaching program is a place to start. Learn more at www.covertnarcissism.com. And so you don't miss part two of this conversation, make sure you're subscribed to the show. The Covert Narcissism Podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. Nothing shared here should be taken as professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis or need support, please reach out to a licensed mental health professional. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Covert narcissism often comes down to one simple question: who in your relationship is afraid to disagree? Renee walks through five everyday scenes: a restaurant, a mutual friend, the family dog, a wedding, and the car radio. Each one shows how a small difference of opinion can turn into an hour-long lecture, a loyalty test, the silent treatment, or an explosion. Over time, the person on the receiving end learns that staying quiet is the only way to keep the peace, and life becomes a constant walk on eggshells. Renee explains why narcissistic people state their opinions as facts. Disagreement threatens their need to be right, to be admired, and to control the narrative. She also explains how covert narcissists disagree without saying a word, through sighing, pouting, withdrawal, and playing the victim. She describes what healthy disagreement is supposed to teach us, why it's not your fault if you never got the chance to learn it, and why keeping the peace is not the same thing as being peaceful. The episode closes with reflection questions to help cut through the fog of gaslighting and bring clarity to your own narcissistic abuse recovery. If you're ready for support on your healing journey, learn more about Renee's coaching program at www.covertnarcissism.com. And if this episode spoke to you, subscribe to the show so you never miss a new episode. The information provided by Renee Swanson, Covert Narcissism Podcast, and CNG Life Coaching is for educational purposes only and is not to be used for diagnosis purposes and not intended to be a substitute for clinical care. Please consult a health care provider for guidance specific to your case. This material discusses narcissism in general. Renee shares stories from her personal experiences as well as from those she has talked with for several years. Her material does not claim that any specific person has narcissism and should not be used to refer to any specific person as having narcissism. Permission is not granted to link to or repost this material to support an allegation or support a claim that any specific person is a narcissist. That would be an unauthorized misuse of the material and information provided. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What happens when an AI questions the story of someone who has spent years not being believed? In part two of this conversation, Renee and Anne Wintemute, founder of Aimee Says, look at how some AI tools push back on users in subtle ways, like "if it happened the way you say," and why that can feel a lot like gaslighting to survivors of covert narcissism. Anne explains how to move past validation to the question "now what?" and how survivors can use AI to organize journals, screenshots, and years of co-parenting messages in one place. She introduces Aimee Detects, a new feature that analyzes a full communication record for patterns of coercive control. She and Renee also talk honestly about how AI use can help or hurt you in a high-conflict divorce or family court case, why you need to stay in the driver's seat, and why privacy matters so much when you choose an AI tool. If you'd like to give Aimee Says a try, here is the link. Use Renee's discount code RENEE for $20 off. Right now, that's the equivalent of your first month free. If you're on your own narcissistic abuse recovery journey and want more support, Renee's coaching program is a great next step. Learn more at www.covertnarcissism.com. And if this conversation helped you, make sure you're subscribed so you never miss an episode. The Covert Narcissism Podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. Nothing shared here should be taken as professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis or need support, please reach out to a licensed mental health professional. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.