The Sacred Speaks

Interview begins @ 8:08 Today Dr. Miles Neale and Dr. John explore “ego death”, and a few issues with this language, we continue discussing the nature of the ego, the Buddhist frame for soul, returning from the mountaintop or a break-through experience, nondualism, Miles reveals several of his transcendent experiences and also a personal experience with death, “cheap” nondualism, addiction to the nondual, spiritual bypassing, grief, experiencing death, trauma and the unconscious, the healing relationship between teacher and student, holding suffering, the ego’s avoidance, guru devotion, pilgrimage, psychedelic experience, sacred journeys, and we finish with Tibetan Buddhism and the infrastructure of the return from the “mountaintop”. Bio: Dr. Miles Neale, PsyD, is a Buddhist psychotherapist in private practice, founder of the Contemplative Studies Program, international speaker, and host of the Wisdom Keeper Podcast. He has taught psychology and meditation at prestigious university hospitals including Harvard, Columbia, and Cornell. Author of Gradual Awakening (Sounds True, 2018) and co-editor of Advances in Contemplative Psychotherapy (Routledge, 2017), Miles is currently writing his next book Return with Elixir: Journey of Conscious Death and Rebirth (Inner Traditions, 2023). With more than twenty years integrating the mind science of Tibetan Buddhism with psychology, trauma research, neuroscience, and mythology, Miles is a forerunner in the emerging field of contemplative psychotherapy, and leads pilgrimages around the Buddhist world. https://www.milesneale.com John’s Esalen Workshop: https://www.esalen.org/workshops/portals-and-pathways-ecstatic-experience-music-and-the-red-book-022723 Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Conversation starts @ 4:36 In this episode I meet with Dr. Stephen Gray to discuss his latest book, How Psychedelics Can Help Save The World: Visionary and Indigenous Voices Speak Out. We begin by noting the cultural and individual issues that that psychedelic medicine is positioned to treat, we continue with the ways that we have lost our mythic and symbolic root and religious systems, overpopulation, planetary sickness, the universality of change and transformation, the Dunbar number and social systems, the nature of these reality revealing medicines, explore indigenous traditions as revelatory to the hegemony, healing cultural wounds, cultural dynamics exposed by psychedelic practice, psychedelic capitalism, medical and pharma intervention with psychedelics, the lost Mystery Schools, trusting what is, surrender as an attitude nourished by working with entheogens, and more. Bio: Stephen has been involved in spiritual work and psychedelics for 50 years. This includes more than 20 years as a student and occasional teacher of Tibetan Buddhism; a dozen years actively involved with Native American Church peyote prayer ceremonies; “guest” membership in the ayahuasca-using Santo Daime Church, and experience with a number of other entheogens. He is also the author of Returning to Sacred World: A Spiritual Toolkit for the Emerging Reality, and editor as well as one of 18 contributors to the popular Cannabis and Spirituality: An Explorer’s Guide to an Ancient Plant Spirit Ally. Stephen teaches people about the spiritual benefits of intentional cannabis use and conduct cannabis meditation and sound-journeying ceremonies. Perhaps most relevant to the mission of StephenGray Vision, for the past 10 years, he’s co-organized the influential Spirit Plant Medicine Conference in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. That work has connected him to dozens of remarkable spokespeople on behalf of the skillful understanding and use of psychedelic/entheogenic sacramental medicines. About the book: Exploring the way forward for humanity in the face of unprecedented crisis, more than 25 contributors show how the wisdom of Indigenous peoples and the power of psychedelics can help us enact the radical shift in consciousness necessary to navigate the collapse of the old world order and the birth of a new consciousness centered on awakened-heart interconnectedness. We hear from psychedelic visionaries Christopher Bache, Zoe Helene, Wade Davis, Chris Kilham, Laurel Sugden, and others on the promise of psychedelic medicines for spiritual and healing work. We learn about Indigenous stories to support our transformation from Native American leader Solana Booth, ancestral memory from Grandmother Maria Alice Campos Freire, cannabis’s role in world building from Minelli Eustàcio-Costa, the ritual roots of talking plants from Michael Stuart Ani, and alchemy across the arc of time from shaman Ya’Acov Darling Khan. We also hear from cannabis grower The Dank Duchess; Bruce Damer, a “mystic scientist” working on the question of life’s origins and its future in space; Tyson Yunkaporta, Australian Aboriginal artist and scholar; visionary artist Martina Hoffmann; professor of religious studies G. William Barnard; activist Duane Elgin; Kohenet Rachel Kann, ordained Jewish priestess and ceremonialist; and several other wise leaders for our time. https://www.stephengrayvision.com John’s Esalen Workshop: https://www.esalen.org/workshops/portals-and-pathways-ecstatic-experience-music-and-the-red-book-022723 Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Conversation starts @ 5:47 Hermes Trismegistus was believed to be one of the wise men of his time, and a study of his texts reveals, not a general philosophy, but a spiritual path for initiates who seek to achieve gnosis by direct acquaintance of the true nature of reality as we experience it. Dr. Wouter Hanegraaff begins this analysis by guiding us into the four-core dimension of his book, Hermeticism, spirituality, historical imagination, and altered states of knowledge. All of this knowledge circulated through small groups of people beginning in the first century A.D. Wouter explains how he landed a position as The University of Amsterdam chair of Hermeticism, and then began to “map” the field of esoterism, the two poles of his academic interests are Hermeticism and esotericism. We discuss the nature of esotericism, rejected forms of knowledge, monotheism and exclusion, the shadow of the collective, Isaac Newton’s heresy, Western exclusion, nonduality, the experiential nature of spiritual practice, Diotima - the female visionary who taught Socrates, drugs in the ancient world, The East and the irrational, academic ideological orientation to Greek as rational, misunderstanding and misinterpretation of antiquity, gender, the spiritual nature of rebirth, life and death, immortality and “The Flip,” shoutout to Miles Neale and Jeff Kripal, music and the cosmos, tones and chanting, initiation, apprenticeship, magic, therapy, and more. Bio: Wouter J. Hanegraaff is Professor of History of Hermetic Philosophy and Related Currents at the University of Amsterdam, the Netherlands, a member of the Royal Dutch Academy of Arts and Sciences, as well as past President and now honorary member of the European Society for the Study of Western Esotericism. Alongside numerous articles, he is the author of New Age Religion and Western Culture: Esotericism in the Mirror of Secular Thought (Leiden 1996/Albany 1998); Lodovico Lazzarelli (1447-1500): The Hermetic Writings and Related Documents (Tempe 2005; with Ruud M. Bouthoorn); Swedenborg, Oetinger, Kant: Three Perspectives on the Secrets of Heaven (West Chester 2007); Esotericism and the Academy: Rejected Knowledge in Western Culture (Cambridge 2012); and Western Esotericism: A Guide for the Perplexed (London 2013). He has (co)edited eight collective volumes, including the 1200-page Dictionary of Gnosis and Western Esotericism (Leiden 2005) and Hidden Intercourse: Eros and Sexuality in the History of Western Esotericism (New York 2011; with Jeffrey J. Kripal). His most recent monograph Hermetic Spirituality and the Historical Imagination: Altered States of Knowledge in Late Antiquity is forthcoming with Cambridge University Press in 2022. His current projects are focused on the history of consciousness in German Idealism and Romanticism, and the role of the imagination in Western culture. https://www.wouterjhanegraaff.net Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Conversation starts @ 6:31 We begin with a discussion of Sean’s shift of consciousness during a psychedelic experience at a young age wherein he could map his experience onto what the traditions of chaos theory and Aldous Huxley’s perennial philosophy explained. Following this experience and at the suggestion of a professor of mysticism, Sean followed the thread to help with his integration. With a deep history as a psychonaut combined with Sean’s interest is in music and pop culture he therefore approaches the material of psychedelic experience from a different lens than one that we hear from traditional academia. Sean integrated his personal experimentation in both magic and psychedelics into a particular ceremony inspired by the archetype of the magician as imaged by David Bowie. Sean notes that when working with the medicine of mushrooms he experienced an archetypal messianic shift and worked to make sense of what Jung called, “holding the tension of the opposites” – not fully identifying with this experience, though not writing it off either. The middle path. We offer a disclaimer for the healthy use of psychedelics, noting how overwhelming these substances can be and the necessity to approach the use of these sacramental substances with care and reverence. We discuss cancel culture, anti-fragility, high-dose psilocybin practice, ceremonial magic, repurposing the energy of popular culture to help bring in awareness of the sacred, and more. Bio: Sean Manseau was born in Boston, MA, the son of a married Roman Catholic priest and a former Sister of St. Joseph. At various points he has been a mall janitor, a lounge act guitarist, a failed paratrooper, a San Francisco bike messenger, a video game animator, a Muay Thai instructor, homeless, an East Village NYC bartender, a failed novelist, a gym owner, and a video game industry executive. In addition to A.P. Psychedelics: Going Beyond Set and Setting to Achieve Visionary Virtuosity, he is the author of the spiritual autobiography Spotify the Gnostics, Here's the First Church of David Bowie, the coaching manual By the Numbers: A Practical Method for Instructing Multi-Modal GPP Training, the novel Lapdance, and the short story collection You Are Not a Planet and Other Stories. He lives in Portland, OR, with his dog Jones. to purchase book: https://www.amazon.com/P-Psychedelics-Setting-Visionary-Virtuosity/dp/B09X35NDQF/ref=sr_1_2?crid=34QIVK0FPWPW8&keywords=a.p.+psychedelics&qid=1664877430&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIwLjAwIiwicXNhIjoiMC4wMCIsInFzcCI6IjAuMDAifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=a.p.+psychedelics%2Caps%2C87&sr=8-2 Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Conversation starts @ 8:25 How can we understand traditional accounts of visionary experience in terms of the neurophysiology of our brain? What are the scientific bases for shamanism and healing, cross-culturally, throughout history beginning with the Byzantine era to today? These are several questions posited by Dr. Winkelman within the first few minutes of the interview. We continue exploring the void experience of introverted mysticism and the narratives expressed in extroverted mysticism (and what are the differences?), spiritual practice and psychedelic use in youth, recreational vs. religious use of these substances, a session with the Mazatec healer, Maria Sabina, in his youth, we discuss the tendency toward reductionism when using a physiological lens to explain the phenomenology of consciousness, describe the neurophenomonological experience of the spirit world, extrasensory perceptions and the brain, what is real?, naive materialism, group consciousness and the development of religion and the religious impulse, belonging, religion and social control, symbol use and group dynamics, religious groups and social connections, western medicine, ritual in healing, placebo effect, cross-cultural analysis of shamanism, priests & witches. Bio: Michael Winkelman, PhD, University of California–Irvine; MPH, University of Arizona, retired from the School of Human Evolution and Social Change at Arizona State University in 2009. Winkelman has engaged in cross-cultural and interdisciplinary research on shamanism, psychedelics, and altered states of consciousness, focusing principally on the universal patterns of shamanism and identifying the associated biological bases. His publications on shamanism include Shamans, Priests and Witches (1992), which provides a cross-cultural examination of the nature of shamanism; and Shamanism: A Biopsychosocial Paradigm of Consciousness and Healing (2nd ed., 2010). Shamanism provides a biogenetic model of shamanism that explains the evolutionary origins of spiritual healing in ancient ritual capacities. This biogenetic approach is expanded in an assessment of the evolutionary origins of religion in his co-authored Supernatural as Natural. These approaches provide a framework for understanding the contribution of psychedelics to the evolution of the human mind and social relations and their continued application in healing. Winkelman served as an expert witness for the defense in the Santo Daime case against the U.S. federal government, which won their right of religious freedom to use of ayahuasca as a sacrament. Winkelman received a Fulbright Fellowship for research on the health of ayahuasca church members in Brazil during 2009 ( https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyt.2018.00136 ). Winkelman is currently living near Pirenopolis in the central highlands of Brazil; he may be reached through his website: https://michaelwinkelman.com Articles: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Michael-Winkelman to purchase book: http://www.abc-clio.com/ABC-CLIOCorporate/product.aspx?pc=A2593C Referenced resources: https://www.ligare.org Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Conversation starts @ 4:15 The Santo Daime, a syncretistic tradition including parts of indigenous South American religion, African folk traditions, and Catholicism, is a new religion as of the early 20th century. All of this to say that in this conversation, we are invited into a deep dive to explore the nature and formation of religion in general as we look at the specifics of a sacred ayahuasca-based new religious tradition. We begin with Dr. Barnard’s first-person experience within The Santo Daime, which is a real treat given that, as a professor of religious studies, he is quite experienced evaluating, comparing, & exploring religion and religious traditions from the third person, though in Liquid Light we benefit from his history as a comparativist, who analyzes his own tradition. In modern studies we often learn of first-person experiences with ayahuasca – the images, the process, the purging, though we do not often get a glimpse into the religion itself. Today’s conversation explores these dimensions of ayahuasca and more, including the formation of the religion, the institution, the preparation of the sacramental substance, philosophical interpretations, metaphysics, an exploration of religious studies and comparativism, divinity with The Santo Daime, Christ Consciousness, panpsychism, William James, & mystical experiences - we end by briefly questioning the ontological nature of the Other, though read the book and take a deep dive into mediumship and encountering the More. Bio: G. William (Bill) Barnard is a Professor of Religious Studies, as well as a University Distinguished Teaching Professor, at Southern Methodist University, in Dallas, Texas. His primary areas of research interests are the comparative philosophy of mysticism, religion and the social sciences, contemporary spirituality, religion and healing, and consciousness studies. For over 15 years (including his ongoing study of Portuguese), Professor Barnard has researched the Santo Daime tradition, a syncretistic, entheogenically-based new religious movement that emerged in Brazil in the mid-twentieth century. Professor Barnard is the author of Living Consciousness: The Metaphysical Vision of Henri Bergson as well as Exploring Unseen Worlds: William James and the Philosophy of Mysticism, both published by State University of New York Press. In addition, Professor Barnard is the co-editor of Crossing Boundaries: Essays on the Ethical Status of Mysticism. Professor Barnard has also written many journal articles and book chapters on a variety of topics, such as pedagogy in religious studies, the nature of religious experience, issues in the psychology of religion, and most recently, entheogenic religions and spirituality. https://liquidlightbook.com Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Conversation starts @ 7:26 This conversation begins with a discussion of the banisteriopsis vine (ayahuasca) featured in the background. We explore Dr. McKenna’s first adventure down to South America to study and explore psychedelics used in the Amazonian medico-religious process. This endeavor would eventually connect him with several elder medicine men who created mixtures for Dennis to study – “We want to learn everything that you know about ayahuasca.” We discuss how the indigenous folks of the Amazon responded to the scientists who sought to investigate their sacramental plant, the rubber boom of the early 20th century, lost aspects of the Amazonian ethnomedical tradition, the hard problem of consciousness, the limitations of reductionism, the value of science, limitations of science, an overview of the journey to La Chorrera, building the temple for “spiritual” experience, or ecstatic/mystical experience, the body as apothecary, theories of consciousness, the molecule and the “trip,” scientific bias of the west, the Default Mode Network, the value of psychedelics to the scientific community, and the McKenna Academy. Bio: Dennis McKenna is an American ethnopharmacologist, research pharmacognosist, lecturer and author. He is a founding board member and the director of ethnopharmacology at the Heffter Research Institute, a non-profit organization concerned with the investigation of the potential therapeutic uses of psychedelic medicines. Dennis also serves on the Advisory Board of the American Botanical Council; as Founder and Executive Director for the Institute for Natural Products Research; as an Independent Research Consultant to the Phytomedicine and Nutraceutical Industry; was formerly on the Editorial Board of Phytomedicine, International Journal of Phytotherapy and Phytopharmacology; and is an adjunct professor in the Center for Spirituality and Healing at the University of Minnesota. In that role, he has taught graduate courses in Botanical Medicines and Ethnopharmacology and an inter-session ‘intensive’ in Hawaii each January called Plants in Human Affairs. He has also taught summer field courses in Ecuador for the University of Arizona, and courses in the Amazon and Andes for Pharmacy doctoral students at the University of Kansas and the Albany College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences. Dr. McKenna received his Master’s Degree in Botany from the University of Hawaii in 1979, his Ph.D. in Botanical Sciences from the University of British Columbia in 1984, and continued into post-doctoral research fellowships in the Laboratory of Clinical Pharmacology, National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH), and in the Department of Neurology, Stanford University School of Medicine. His research has included the pharmacology, botany, and chemistry of ayahuasca and oo-koo-hé. He has also conducted extensive ethnobotanical fieldwork in the Peruvian, Colombian, and Brazilian Amazon. Since 2019, he has been working with colleagues to manifest a long-term dream: the McKenna Academy of Natural Philosophy, a non-profit organization founded in the spirit of the ancient Mystery Schools and dedicated to the study of plant medicines, consciousness, intelligence in nature, preservation of indigenous knowledge and a re-visioning of humanity's relationship with Nature. Dr. McKenna is author or co-author of 6 books and over 50 scientific papers in peer-reviewed journals. https://mckenna.academy Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Conversation starts @ 4:31 We begin our conversation exploring José’s background, and with the likes of Dr. Andew Samuels and Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estés as mentors, his intellectual, professional, and spiritual orientation ranges from depth psychology and meditation to attachment and spiritually integrated psychotherapy. First up is one of José’s papers on spirituality and psychotherapy wherein he takes a critical look at “Jungian” approaches and identifies some of the dangers of both ungrounded psychotherapy and spirituality. We discuss the nature of therapy, ways psychotherapy can support and transform suffering, the nature of the relationship in therapy, meditation, development of a private spiritual process, religion and defining related terms such as spirituality and mysticism, the taxonomy of healers and therapists, the shadow side of spiritual work and healing professions, shamanism, fairytales, the archetype defined, inflation in healing work, differences between mythology and fairytales, we analyze the fairytale “Sleeping Beauty,” or “Briar Rose,” and the importance of inviting the unexplored psychological aspects of self. Bio: José has an M.A in Jungian and Post-Jungian Studies from the University of Essex, where Andrew Samuels was his academic supervisor, and an MSc in Systemic Psychotherapy from the Milton Erikson Institute from Monterrey. Since 2013, he has trained with Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estés. He works as a psychotherapist in private practice and writes the column ‘The Spiritually Ambivalent Therapist’ for Thresholds, a Journal of Psychotherapy and Spirituality, from the British Association of Counseling and Psychotherapy. Class: https://junghouston.org/theevents/the-seven-gates-to-the-underworld-the-descent-of-inanna-online/ Journal: https://www.bacp.co.uk/bacp-journals/thresholds/ Sleeping Beauty: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeping_Beauty https://sites.pitt.edu/~dash/grimm050.html Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Conversation starts @ 6:29 “Ecstasy, trance, and soul flight … these powerful and potentially transformative elements of ancient experience have long been left to the fringes of archaeological research.” Dr. Sarah K. Costello and John begin with a question exploring the often unconscious issue of projecting modern perspective onto antiquity to support a current argument. As an archeologist, anthropologist, & art-historian, Dr. Costello’s peak into antiquity is through the lens of the material content. We continue exploring the contributions of Dr. Costello’s various disciplines, challenges of evaluating art in antiquity, symbols, Gobekli Tepe, interpretation of antiquity, carefully approaching one’s intuitive assumptions about antiquity and the risk of projection and bias, the Transcendent as a cultural universal, challenging the idea of universals, narrativization of consciousness, cross-cultural studies, universals and the particulars, we discuss her creative process for the book, “The Routledge Companion to Ecstatic Experience in the Ancient World,” defining ecstatic experience, we discuss, The Immortality Key, & cultural containers for alternate states in antiquity. Bio: Sarah Kielt Costello, Ph.D., has taught art history at UHCL since 2014. She teaches graduate and undergraduate courses in the humanities and the history of ancient art. She was the recipient of the UH Provost’s Teaching Excellence Award in 2012. Dr. Costello’s research focus is the visual culture of the early periods of the Ancient Near East. In her writing, she investigates the social contexts of visual culture, especially how people store and communicate ideas, and how imagery relates to religion. She is a project leader of a collaborative research initiative with Houston’s Menil Collection, focused on the art of the ancient Mediterranean world. She has conducted field research in Cyprus, Turkey, Israel, and Greece, and in 2013 studied in Greece as a Fulbright Fellow in the summer session at the American School of Classical Studies. https://www.routledge.com/The-Routledge-Companion-to-Ecstatic-Experience-in-the-Ancient-World/Stein-Costello-Foster/p/book/9780367480325 Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Conversation starts 5:45 Growing up within a family lineage of community herbalists and healers, Dr. Hobbs leads us through his orientation to healing and medicine starting with an overview of medical and healing systems, in particular the intersection between eastern and western medicine. The central question that Dr. Hobbs asks is: “What is medicine?” This, an obvious question that, sadly, is not often reflected upon. Dr. Hobbs urges us to cultivate and source our own medicine within our daily lives. As a young man, Chris spent his time in the old forest looking for mushrooms and, given his family history and knowledge of healing modalities, he became acquainted with medicines that grow naturally. We continue with subjects ranging from the community of mycologists, mystical states through a scientific process, the religion of science, food as medicine, issues with modern medicine, factory farming, food tax, food as source of healing, medical response to Covid, vaccine rollout, the role of viruses in our biological network, humanity living out of balance, the dual split of the vaccine, understanding a vaccine and a virus, the scientific method, publication and interpretation of data, medicinal mushrooms, inviting mushrooms into your diet, the microbiome and the gut, fungi and the immune system, nutritional benefit of mushrooms, visionary mushrooms, value of subjective experience following many mushroom journeys, and the lack of cultural and ritual process to fold psychedelics and religious experience into a sacred practice. Bio: Dr. Christopher Hobbs is a fourth-generation, internationally renowned herbalist, licensed acupuncturist, author, clinician, botanist, mycologist, and research scientist with over 35 years of experience with herbal medicine. Christopher has a doctorate from UC Berkeley in phylogenetics, evolutionary biology and phytochemistry. He is also a founding member of the American Herbalists Guild. https://www.christopherhobbs.com https://www.facebook.com/chrisrhobbs https://www.tellurideinstitute.org/telluride-mushroom-festival/ Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com Information for Mark Plotkin: www.markplotkin.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com