The Operations Room: A Podcast for COO’s

In this episode, Andrew Duncan and Maddy Cross discuss leadership transitions. They touch on advice for execs and considerations for hiring, the difference in leadership skills between early and late stage, the right mix of experience for a leadership team, and how to identify gaps in a team.

In this episode we unpack the topic of: "Cracking the Code: Exploring Emotional Literacy and Embodiment” This is Part 2 in our emotional literacy and embodiment series. Our special guests are returning alumni with Divinia Knowles, Founder of the COO Roundtable and Maddie Fox, a leadership development coach across venture-backed organisations. We are also joined by Pippa Richardson, Somatic Therapist, Educator, Speaker and Clinician. We discuss the following with Pippa, Maddie and Divinia: Our personal journey’s into embodimentWhat do we disconnect from our body? What is dysregulation? How do you manage through a day of back-to-back meetings? How do you bring embodiment into the day-to-day? Biography: Pippa is a highly regarded Somatic Therapist, Educator, Speaker and Clinician. She has lived experience and clinical expertise in the areas of trauma, eating disorders, addiction, recovery and healing. With over 10 years experience of working and studying in the field of embodiment, body-centred therapies and psychosomatics, both in clinical and non-clinical settings. Her work lies at the intersection of psyche (mind) and soma (body) and she is passionate about supporting her clients to live an embodied, meaningful life. Alongside her clinical work, Pippa leads talks, retreats and workshops both in the UK and abroad. She has a broad range of experience working with individuals, groups and organisations including the US Military, Save The Children, Bamford, Manolo Blahnik - as well as with leadership executives and professional athletes. Her work aims to provide thought provoking environments to explore the human experience with curiosity, kindness and compassion.Divinia was COO, CFO & a director at both Mind Candy and Pact Coffee, where she also served as interim CEO.  She has held or still holds chair and board seats at too many companies to list and is occasionally an angel investor. Divinia re-trained as a coach in 2017 and combined it with her previous experience to become the COO Coach, working with start up/scale up COOs/CEOs to help guide them through successfully starting up, scaling up and exiting. And in addition to all that, she is also the Founder of the London COO Roundtable, a community that brings operations professionals together to define what it means to be a highly effective startup and scale up Chief Operating Officer.Divinia Knowles referencesCOO Roundtable - https://www.cooroundtable.com/LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/diviniaknowles/Divinia’s email - divinia@diviniaknowles.comMaddie has over 20 years experience in HR and Learning & Development working with various organizations from corporate to fast growing tech, in Europe, the US and Australia. She is an ICF accredited executive coach, leadership and HR consultant with a wide range of experience, however specialising in developing leaders from emerging leaders to seasoned CEO’s, building high-performing sustainable teams and helping clients successfully navigate change. Her style is eclectic, using research, theory and direct experiences to ensure individuals find ways to effectively embed new behaviours, build resilience and deliver results. More recently she has been working in VC backed start-ups, series A-B, working for mostly founder led businesses as a Chief People Officer, Leadership Coach and Advisor. Clients include Blippar, Lantum, Trint, Mixcloud, amongst others. Summary:Diversity and inclusivity in tech industry. 0:05Bethany shares her experience at an EQ event for people and talent, feeling like an imposter among mostly women in leadership roles.People and talent leadership, strategic conversations, and IT budgets. 2:13Bethany highlights the importance of the people team being involved in strategic decision-making and having a seat at the leadership table.Brandon agrees, emphasizing the need for people leaders to be proactive in thinking through the implications of choices made by the leadership team, particularly in terms of human resources and operations.Brandon and Bethany discuss the importance of people leaders having control over their IT budgets and understanding people ops and analytics to run the business effectively.Bethany suggests that combining thinking and feeling perspectives can create a powerful combination for business success.Embodiment and acting techniques for emotional connection. 7:00Brandon struggles with abstract concept of embodiment, citing communication issues in his career.Brandon discovered that traditional communications training was ineffective and found acting classes to be more helpful in understanding the human condition and connecting with others.The Meisner technique, which includes the repetition exercise, was instrumental in Brandon's acting development and ability to connect with others on stage.Brandon describes Meisner technique as "mesmerizing" and "emotionally difficult" but ultimately "spectacular" for connecting with others.Bethany shares how she discovered her body through acting and wants to hear others' experiences to inspire new ways of embodiment.Somatic practice and its connection to leadership and emotions. 14:10Divinia bumps into Nick Kitchen, an executive coach with a somatic practice, and learns about the disconnect between people's words and body language during team coaching supervision.Somatic therapy and body awareness. 15:44Pippa realized she was disconnected from her body through somatic therapy, leading to profound life changes.Embodied coaching and somatic practices. 18:22Maddie's curiosity about the body and mind led her to explore somatic coaching, which she found helpful in connecting with her body and sensations.Maddie notes that while Pilates can be a helpful exercise practice, it's possible to do it in an objectified way that's disconnected from the body, and that somatic coaching offers a more embodied approach to movement and self-awareness.Therapy, embodiment, and yoga for body positivity. 21:01Bethany finds solace in yoga after years of therapy, feeling more grounded and centered.Bethany discovers joy in embodiment through PIPA, undoing years of yoga conditioning.Disconnection from body and its impact on society. 24:48Pippa argues that disconnection from the body can limit connection and joy, and is reinforced by systemic factors.Body awareness and dysregulation. 26:18Maddie and Divinia discuss the importance of recognizing and addressing unregulated stress in the body, which can lead to physical sensations like pain or anxiety.Divinia explains that unregulated stress can manifest in various ways, including physical sensations, behaviors, and emotions, and that it's important to identify and release this stored trauma to move forward.Autonomic nervous system and stress regulation. 29:22Pippa references autonomic nervous system, explaining sympathetic (accelerator) and parasympathetic (brake) states, and how body signals can indicate stress or anticipation.Dysregulation occurs when the body's stress response system becomes overloaded, leading to difficulty regulating emotions and behaviors.Managing energy and presence in meetings. 32:38Maddie suggests incorporating intentional pauses between meetings to improve presence and productivity.Brandon and Maddie discuss the challenges of maintaining energy and focus throughout the workday, particularly for senior executives.Maddie suggests practices outside of work, such as yoga or exercise, can help increase resilience and presence in meetings.Categorizing daily tasks based on energy levels. 36:24Reflect on energy-giving activities to prioritize in daily work.Self-care and body awareness. 37:49Bethany prioritizes self-care by giving herself permission to do what feels good in her body, such as laying flat on the ground for a couple of minutes each day.Somatic practices for stress reduction and self-awareness. 38:51Practice dual awareness of self and others to reduce stress levels.Resilience coaching and grounding exercises. 41:18Divinia observes that using words like "presence" can be misleading, as people may not actually be as present as they think.Somatic coaching and its benefits for stress management. 42:40Maddie and Bethany discuss the importance of centering practices for managing stress and difficult interactions, and Maddie leads a quick centering exercise to demonstrate the technique.The exercise involves bringing to mind a difficult interaction, physically sensing any tension in the body, and then grounding oneself through a scan up the body and attention to familiar places.Maddie guides listeners to find space in their body by centering themselves and lengthening from the crown of the head to the soles of their feet.Pippa, Bethany, and Brandon discuss the importance of creating space and having more choice in our bodies and actions, leading to a more conscious and intentional approach to life.This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy

Guests Divinia Knowles and Maddie Fox discuss emotional literacy and embodiment, exploring topics such as reading the room, challenging the CEO, moving from head to body, personal journey to embodied leadership, and stopping oneself from taking on other's emotions. They also delve into the challenges of introducing embodied leadership, emotional outbursts, and maintaining separate emotional zones.

In this episode we unpack the topic of: "Transitioning Roles: From COO to CEO". This is Part 2 in our transitioning roles series. Our special guest is John Saroff, CEO of Chartbeat. Bethany and I discuss what a CEO does, and how a COO can build competence in these areas: VisionFundraisingBoard relationshipsSetting the tone for the cultureWe then discuss the following with John: What is the role of a CEO and how does it differ to the COO role?Do you have a COO now? Why not? How does the stress of the CEO role differ to the COO? As someone who has suffered from depression, how has that influenced your time as CEO? What do you wish you would have known when you transitioned from COO to CEO? When you transitioned into the CEO role, did you struggle with role definition? When is a COO ready to take the CEO role? How do you become emotionally available to employees? ReferencesChartbeatBiography: John Saroff is Chief Executive Officer of Chartbeat, Inc., an ecosystem of enterprise solutions that enables media companies to grow reach and revenue. Chartbeat serves more that 1,000 brands globally, including The New York Times, BBC, ESPN, BuzzFeed, Paramount, Warner Bros., Hearst, and McClatchy. The company brings together Chartbeat, the industry-leading content analytics software for digital publishers; Tubular Labs, a comprehensive analytics solution that delivers a unified view of social video audiences; and Lineup Systems, a bespoke tool for providing media companies with revenue management software. John has worked on the cutting-edge of media and technology for 24 years, at companies ranging from Google to NBC. He holds a joint degree in law and business from Columbia University and is a graduate of Haverford College.Summary: Career development and CEO transitions. 0:06Bethany shares how she spent her 20s experimenting with different identities and careers, feeling less ashamed about her lack of progress.Brandon: Inspired by Pierre Trudeau's career path, he pursued various manual labor jobs in his 20s without a clear career goal, focusing on enjoying life and graduating from university.John Saref: As CEO of Chartbeat, he transitioned from Google and NBC Universal, discussing how a CEO can build competence by galvanizing the organization and stakeholders around the company's vision, mission, and purpose.Leadership, vision, and communication skills for CEOs. 3:32Bethany emphasizes the importance of having a clear and compelling vision as a leader, which she believes is essential for inspiring others to work towards a common goal.Brandon agrees that vision is crucial, but also acknowledges that it can be challenging for ordinary people to articulate a powerful storyline in a way that is both competent and charismatic.Brandon: Product background helps with vision and storytelling (black slide technique)Bethany: Keep presentations simple and focused on the future (no bullet points, no visuals)CEO responsibilities and skills. 7:40Bethany and Brandon both played key roles in fundraising rounds, learning investor thinking and complementing the CEO's strengths with their own areas of expertise.Fundraising is like another sales cycle, requiring collaboration and pairing off with different people to add value and secure investment.Bethany emphasizes the importance of communication and empathy for CEOs in investor relations and customer meetings.Bethany and Brandon discuss the importance of building relationships as a CEO, with Bethany emphasizing the value of having a strong relationship with key stakeholders.Bethany and Brandon also touch on the topic of setting the tone for the company culture, with Bethany noting that as CEO, you are setting the tone rather than just toeing the party line.Career transition from corporate lawyer to content acquisition at NBC. 14:19John Saroff transitioned from corporate lawyer to content acquisition at NBC after feeling unfulfilled and depressed in his law career.He networked extensively and interviewed with 26 people for the job, eventually getting hired by Mike Stipe, who is still a close friend.Saroff emphasizes the importance of finding a career that aligns with one's passions and values, rather than simply chasing the "brass ring" of partnership.CEO responsibilities and stress. 17:21John Saroff, former COO, describes the difference between the CEO and COO roles as "enormous" and "really different," respectively.John Saroff does not currently have a COO, having taken over as CEO after his predecessor left to start a company sold to Twitter.John Saroff describes the stress of being a CEO, comparing it to being the "least bad choice" with a small team and limited resources.CEO stress, depression, and mental health resources. 21:00John Saroff highlights the stress-reducing aspects of being a CEO, such as having ultimate decision-making authority and being accountable for the company's success or failure.Bethany agrees, noting that the lack of authority to make decisions without the CEO's approval can be immensely stressful for team members.John Saroff discusses his struggles with depression as a corporate lawyer and how he found support through therapy and medication.He emphasizes the importance of mental health resources for employees and stigmatizing mental illness in the workplace.Saroff shares his success story of managing depression and anxiety, encouraging others to seek help.Leadership, vision, and growth as a CEO. 26:19Bethany shares her struggles with perfectionism and feeling like she didn't measure up in her 20s, despite being high achiever.Brandon contrasts their backgrounds, sharing how he didn't have a full-time job until age 28 and didn't have traditional experience, but found success as a CEO.John Saroff reflects on his early days as CEO, realizing the importance of having a clear vision and mission for the company.He emphasizes the need to identify what the company is the best in the world at, and how it can move the economic engine and fire up employees.CEO role and coaching employees. 30:59John Saroff describes his CEO role as a "very involved coach" drawing on experiences from college leadership roles.John Saroff emphasizes the importance of coaching and communication as a CEO, using examples from his experience as a Liverpool fan and a New York Giants fan.Saroff believes that meddling can be healthy if employees understand why the CEO is involved, citing the example of a client who only tells the CEO the truth.CEO mindset, emotional intelligence, and self-care. 34:45John Saroff emphasizes the importance of self-awareness and emotional reserves for CEOs, citing it as a key trait for success in the role.Bethany highlights the need for CEOs to be able to operationalize and inspire their teams, while also taking on ultimate accountability.John Saroff emphasizes the importance of taking care of oneself holistically to be successful in any field, especially as a CEO.He practices active listening and reminds himself that his opinions are just that, while acknowledging the feelings and opinions of others.John encourages listeners to take action and make the transition to their desired career, emphasizing that it only takes one "yes" to make it happen.This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy

Cleo Sham, Venture Partner at StrideVC, discusses transitioning from COO to Venture Capitalist, the joy in being a COO versus a VC, dealing with critical feedback, and how to make the move from COO to VC. Cleo shares her experiences in the banking industry, passion for investing, and the importance of finding joy and satisfaction in your career.

In this episode we discuss: "The Wartime COO”. Our special guest is Huw Slater, COO of Oliva Health, formerly COO of TravelPerk and Bella Riemer, Head of Operations at Joblift. We discuss the following with Huw and Bella: What is a Wartime COO? How does this impact how you operate the business?How do you surface existential threats to the organisation and inject a sense of focus, without scaring folks?What have been some of the worst storms you’ve weathered? Lessons learned?More broadly, what are risks the COO should always be vigilant about? What would you recommend tactically in a wartime setting? How do values pragmatically inform your decision-making process in wartime? Who was in your war room? Why? References: The Hard Thing About Hard ThingsBiography: Huw Slater, COO and Co-founder @Oliva. With >10 years of experience in scaling tech companies in Europe, Huw Slater is the COO and co-Founder at Oliva. Prior to this, Huw was the Chief Operating Officer of TravelPerk, helped Box through their IPO by globalising their growth, scaled Typeform’s expansion from Europe to the US and drove the series B funding, and has 10 additional years’ experience as the Finance Director of a $5bn turnover division in a FTSE 10 company. A passionate leader, Huw is excited by making an impact and instilling a growth mindset in his people where transparency and clarity are key.Bella Reimer, Operational Leader | Strategy Growth | Speaker & Mentor. With over 14 years of experience in various roles and industries. I am a passionate operational leader with a proven track record of driving efficiency, strategic growth, and cross-functional collaboration. I specialise in overseeing end-to-end processes, optimising operations, and aligning teams to achieve impactful results.This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy

Special guest Philip Lakin, Co-Founder & CEO of NoCodeOps, discusses the revolution of NoCode in operations, tangible business impact, managing dependencies, and AI's impact on NoCode. Should ops professionals report to COOs or functional leads?

In this episode we discuss: "Surfacing the COO's Crucial Role in Revenue Generation". Our special guest is Pete Crosby a coach, lecturer & advisor, focussing on the successful design & execution of SaaS revenue & growth strategies. He is a 4x successful scale up revenue leader, most recently as CRO at Ometria. We discuss the following with Pete: What kind of focus helps enable revenue generation? How should the COO’s “system thinking” be leveraged? Where should revenue operations live? What are the types of revenue ops leaders? How does that define their relationship with operations? How important is it for the COO to have a good understanding of revenue ops? What responsibility does a COO have in financial forecasting? How do organisations get more commercially efficient? References: revenue.ghost.io (Pete’s weekly newsletter & deep dives on revenue topics each Sunday) Biography: Pete is a coach, lecturer & advisor, focussing on the successful design & execution of SaaS revenue & growth strategies. He conceived, wrote & teaches The Definitive Guide to Revenue Leadership syllabus at Sales Impact Academy with Mandy Cole of Stage 2 Capital. Guest lecturers on his course include Mark Roberge, Zoom’s Greg Holmes, and Tableau’s Elissa Fink. He is a 4x successful scale up revenue leader, most recently as CRO at Ometria, who Deloitte placed in the Top 10 growth businesses in the UK with revenue acceleration above 3000%.  He took Ometria to its $21m Series B in just 18 months.Prior to Ometria, Pete ran revenues at Viadeo from Series A to IPO, and took Triptease from $2m to $10m ARR and a successful Series B, also in just 18 months.Now the Founder of Pete Crosby Revenue, he has managed revenue teams in Beijing, Singapore, Moscow, Mexico City, Dakar, Casablanca, San Francisco, Boston, New York & in most major cities across Europe.Currently he is a board advisor to 5 of Europe’s most exciting B2B SaaS scale-ups. He also coaches revenue leaders at a further 50+ start-ups & scale-ups.This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy

In this episode we discuss: "The COO's Endless Battle: Navigating Legal and Enterprise Contracts". Our special guest is Ahmed Badr, COO of GoCardless. Ahmed also worked for Microsoft, where he supported multi-billion pound licensing deals. Bethany and I discuss the following:The importance of a generic contract templateEmpowering sales to get contracts doneDefault and deal-breaker positions on indemnity and limitation of liabilityWe discuss the following with Ahmed: What did Microsoft do well and what could be reused at GoCardless? What did the empowerment playbook look like with contracts? What is a deal desk and how was it used? What is the COO role at GoCardless? When should organisations transition from outside to inhouse legal counsel?Why is taking a reasonable, mid-point position on default terms so important? What is a sensible approach to indemnity and limitation of liability?What is the best way to roll out “contract empowerment” programs to sales? References: This guide from DeloitteAn article from Juro (a SaaS provider)This Docusign case study on GoCardlessThis book by Alex Hamilton (who runs Radiant Law - a legal outsourcing and automation provider)Biography: Ahmed is Chief Operating Officer GoCardless, where he is responsible for all core operational teams, as well as being functionally responsible for legal, risk and compliance. GoCardless believes that bank payments are the best way to pay and get paid, and helps businesses collect both recurring and one-off payments, without chasing, stress or expensive fees. Before joining GoCardless, Ahmed worked for Microsoft, where he supported the multi-billion pound UK licensing and developer support organisations. Before this, he was a project finance lawyer at Allen & Overy. In 2015, he became GoCardless’ first lawyer and has since supported the business in its rapid expansion across legal, compliance, risk and operations. Ahmed also sponsors the company’s BEAM (Black, Ethnic and Asian Minority) group, and likes to use his experience to support young fast growth companies, help shape regulation, and open up access to legal careers to a wide range of individuals.This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy

In this episode we discuss: "Revolutionising Workplace Honesty: The Radical Candor Experiment". Our special guest is Ben Gateley, CEO at CharlieHR. Ben is an outspoken champion of positive workplace culture and is a passionate advocate for all things “people”. Bethany and I discuss the following:Praising publicly and criticising privatelyGiving criticism within 24 hours Killing the “shit” sandwichWhat to do with moaning The synergy between asking for feedback and giving feedbackCoaching vs. Evaluation feedbackWe discuss the following with Ben:What made you decide to implement Radical Candor? How did you implement Radical Candor? What were the learnings? How do you now build and operationalise a strong culture of feedback? What is the cultural difference between the UK and US styles? Why does it matter? To what degree do values matter in developing a strong culture of feedback? References: Ben’s podcast with Kim Scott: The Culture Ops Podcast: How do you build a culture where people “care personally” ?Legal law firm for scaleups that Brandon used: Harper JamesBiography: Ben is the CEO and co-founder of CharlieHR: an HR software used by thousands of small businesses worldwide. He has started and grown a number of successful companies since his teenage years — including BORN SOCIAL, one of the most successful social media agencies for challenger brands in the world. This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy