VO BOSS

Anne and Lau recently held an Audition Demolition workshop which included a live callback and casting process. In this episode, the Bosses discuss the audition demolition and how it mirrors the casting process. They explain the importance of taking direction well, researching scripts, and approaching every piece of copy as an actor. During a live callback, don't forget to have fun and enjoy being in a room with other people. Anne and Lau also discuss the importance of feedback and how it can help aspiring voice actors hone their craft Finally, we examine some of the memorable people and performances that stood out. The Bosses finish by reminding listeners that our next Audition Demolition is coming up soon! Transcript 0:00:01 - Intro It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a V-O boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   0:00:19 - Anne Hey everyone, welcome to the V-O Boss podcast and the Boss Business Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my bossy co-host, Lau Lapides. Hey Anne, how are you? I'm awesome, Lau. How are you Good? Fantastic, Lau. We had the most amazing audition demolition this past weekend.   0:00:45 - Lau Woohoo, it was super, super power.   0:00:49 - Anne Yeah, I think we should chat about it. Oh, let's go, I'm ready. Yeah, well, for those bosses who are unaware, we created a audition demolition workshop, which is very similar. We did it once before a Lau, but we added a couple of new twists to it and essentially it was to mimic the casting process, the audition process, and so people could enter and they could choose to get feedback or not. They could audition and get feedback, or audition and not get feedback through our Dropbox new application called Replay. Lau and I were selecting a short list after that and ultimately did not announce the short list until the live show, which was this past weekend. I think it was so exciting, Lau.   0:01:42 - Lau It was so fun, it was great. It took a while right. It took us time to get through it. It wasn't a quick deal. It took us. How long was the show, how long did it run?   0:01:52 - Anne A couple hours, it was a couple hours and we had 10 people that we called back, just like in a real audition I was talking Lau about. When I used to drive into LA I would get notice from my agent that said you've been called back and they want to hear you. I would drive oh God, I would drive into LA and go to the studio and I'd see a lot of times I'd see my voiceover friends there. It was kind of nice. It was like a big party. But yeah, we were still auditioning and so I was a little nervous. I think all of us had a little bit of nervous.   But we would be called in one by one to read a script and Lau, and I tried to mimic that as much as possible during our weekend, and so people were not aware if they were on the shortlist until they got to the live show and then we announced the shortlist one by one. It wasn't, we announced everybody on the shortlist at once. It basically like as if you were waiting in the studio lobby to be called into the studio to read, and so that's what we did. Everybody was surprised and we had 10 people that we shortlisted and we had them come in and guess what? The client changed the script. Now, we did that before, but that's typically what happens, right, you read an audition and then when you go in person to audition, they have a different script. That's almost always the case, I think, and so we changed the script on them, and I don't know Lau. What were your thoughts?   0:03:15 - Lau I thought it went really well. I mean surprising that I kind of thought to some degree many would fall apart with that and not know what was going on and there would be mass confusion and there would be fire and tornadoes and earthquakes. And Charlton Heston would come out of the booth and then we would be eating alive, right, and then the sea would part.   I was like, oh, what are we doing inviting this? But no, seriously. We had some faith in these wonderful talent, and rightly so. They all came through. Everyone came through, I think, with flying colors, and we did. We're good actors, ann. I mean, we made them sufficiently sweat a little bit as if you would in a real live audition. There was a little stress, little tension in the air. I know people were nervous because I saw conversations beforehand flying around on email and in the chat and I love that.   I think that that gave it that flavor of a real. You know it was a mock audition but it was a real audition feel, which is something we wanted to mirror for the professional development and education of it. Absolutely, that worked well. I thought that really worked well.   0:04:20 - Anne And I think that it's really good to get yourself practiced in a live situation where you're definitely feeling adrenaline, whether you're nervous in a good way or even a bad way, right, it really helps you to get seasoned and to figure out what you have to do to work out those nerves to really perform well, and I think that that was a good experience for everybody that participated.   And I feel that, by the way, and so what? We waited until the very beginning and we said guess what? The client changed the script and then we gave them the new script. So talent did not have a lot of time to prepare. As a matter of fact, I would say the first talent that we called up usually is the one at the disadvantage for this particular show, because typically we're not listening to each other audition. We're going in one by one and it's a private thing and we get private feedback. But this because we wanted this to be an educational experience. We had an entire Zoom room full of people who didn't know if they made the audition and were listening to the feedback live, real time from both Lau and myself, and so that will happen a lot of times.   Lau, right in a real situation, you'll have more than one person giving you feedback. You'll have an engineer in there, you'll have a director, you might have a client. You might have more than one person that's offering you direction at the time, and they could have different ideas about the direction. Now, I think Lau, you and I, we think fairly similarly, but there were some auditions where I wanted to hear something different than you did or feedback that we gave was absolutely, I think, different in different spots, but I think overall, we were sticking to the casting specs that were laid out there and that was very similar to a lot of casting specs. That is, make it authentic, make it real, make it, make it conversational. So that's always a task, I think, for talent, and when they're just seeing the script for the first time and even if we've been directing other people, they might be oh my God, they might be preparing. They might not have listened to our feedback, right?   0:06:24 - Lau Yes, yes, and that was the great part of having everyone in the room. That would not happen in an audition most of the time most anywhere but we wanted that educational experience. We wanted people to observe each other's work and get the benefit of everyone's feedback so that even if they were nervous in preparing, they could absorb some of what they were hearing before they went on. And I think that it was a blessing for people to kind of go later and it was also a blessing for people to go first.   0:06:55 - Anne Sure, oh, I agree.   0:06:55 - Lau Because it's a very different experience. I also wanted to bring up, too, our experience, ann, of when we were commenting in the Dropbox and doing all of our feedback, that I heard in the session from a number of people and post via email thanking us that they felt that the feedback was so wonderful, so detailed, so necessary and it was like a drink of nectar for a lot of people that said I'd like to think what you said was authentic and real and that it gave me time, it made me feel special, it made me feel like someone was paying attention to me, that status casting agency status, coaching status and that I could walk away with some real tools, practice tools to work on.   Absolutely. It wasn't just about am I good, am I bad?   0:07:46 - Anne am I right am?   0:07:46 - Lau I wrong. It was much more about reminding me that I have a full process here and I can go in many different directions, and I'd like to think that you and I gave as much authentic feedback as we could, rather than artificial feedback just for the sake of entertainment value.   0:08:03 - Anne Oh yeah, no, absolutely, and I'm going to say that I think that what I loved about it is that the educational component that came into it with the feedback and this is the feedback not just during the live show, this is the feedback via Dropbox. The really cool thing about Dropbox Replay and offering feedback there's a lot of times you'll notice that you submit your auditions via Dropbox and you always have to be careful how you name them and there's lots of criteria when you upload an audition. The cool thing about being able to offer feedback for all the people that requested it is that we were able to give feedback along a timeline, and so if there was a particular passage that they did well or a particular passage where they maybe lost their authenticity or we had a critique, we could specify it at the specific time that it happened, and that's something that you don't always get in a real audition. As a matter of fact, usually in an audition you'll go in and read, and it's very rare that they'll offer feedback. They might give you a set of directions to do it again and may not offer as much verbose feedback as we did during the session, and you're kind of left with.   Okay, I hope I did good. And so you know, I'm always walking out of the room going well, I think they liked me. I hope they liked me, I hope I nailed it. And a lot of times they will give some generic thank you so much. Sometimes they won't say a word, they'll just say okay, thank you, and you'll walk out that door going gosh, I hope I nailed it. Which is what I love about the audition demolition is that we were able to really go beyond that and really act as like okay, here's what we would offer you feedback for the educational component. And then, when we made our decision Lau this is what I loved we muted ourselves, because a lot of times we're there, live in the studio or we're in a Zoom session and we are being directed and then all of a sudden they're gonna mute and they're gonna talk and we can see them talking behind the glass and you're like okay, did they like that?   What are they talking about? And you know, maybe they're talking about lunch, we don't know. Maybe they're talking about my performance. Was it good, was it bad? Oh, my God, what are they gonna tell me next? And then they'll say okay, thank you, we're done. But I liked our mimicking of that.   0:10:14 - Lau And there was a funny moment, though you can't forget to share, that hilarious moment, where we had talked about giving each other a call, a cell phone call, so that we could have this sort of intercom system between the two of us in case we wanna bring up some details to each other or just remind each other about certain cues. I totally forgot, and it was about a quarter of the way through and I said oh wow, I get a call. And I called Ann and I said Ann, listen, because one person didn't show up. I said do you want to have another call back, since we have an open slot? And she's like Lau, everyone can hear you. Right now Can everyone hear Lau? And they're like, and I'm like, that's okay, they'll learn from it, it's great for them.   0:10:59 - Anne There you go, there you go, and here's the deal In a real situation, right? If you don't show up to that casting call, that's it. You snooze, you lose, you're out, and they may make a decision at the last minute to call more people, or they need to hear more people, or maybe they didn't get what they needed from the first audition. Gosh, that goes on all the time.   Right, Lau, they recast it because they didn't really get what they wanted. So we did that too which I love it through a wrench in it, because everybody that was shortlisted thought that was it. And then all of a sudden we had a discussion. We said we'd like to call back Actually, we were gonna call back two people, but we ended up calling back one other person, which again added that element of surprise which again hypes up the adrenaline and the nerves. And so I think again, this audition demolition Lau we can do this like regularly, because I think it's a skill that every voice artist should have in their toolbox to be able to be prepared on the fly, work through those nerves and just perform and get that gig and be able to take direction well, right, and no matter how we slice it, of course we're always about process or process oriented people.   0:12:14 - Lau But there is a product, there is a gig at stake and in this contest we had prizes, we had some cash.   0:12:22 - Anne We had cash.   0:12:22 - Lau We had cash we had cash, we had a going on. People were really fighting and cLauing for the real deal. It wasn't just oh, you won, congratulations. It was, let's actually reward you. Who is something real world that you can enjoy, right and people love that.   0:12:38 - Anne I think people love that. I mean, who doesn't love cash? Who doesn't love cash? I mean, that's just as you know, that's an investment in your business, right? So invest in the audition demolition and you can win cash and or swag, and so I'm extremely excited to have offered that.   0:12:54 - Lau I wanna ask what were some auditions that really stuck out for you and why did they stick out for you? I mean, even in the larger pool, not just the short list, but even in the larger pool there were so many unique people. Oh yeah, they were diverse talent very across the board. No two people were the same. What were some of the more memorable people and performances that your audience can learn from today?   0:13:18 - Anne Well, first and foremost, understanding that I'm going to be casting for a particular job and a particular company, which this happened to be University of Phoenix, I had a demographic in mind that I wanna advertise to and I had a sound in my head that I thought would be a good representative of this particular company or university that would be able to sell effectively.   And I think that every casting director has an idea in their head as to what kind of a voice they're looking for, which usually ends up in the specs. But sometimes they change their mind when somebody gets creative or maybe interprets the script in a little bit of a different way. And it was always those auditions that stood out to me, the ones that it wasn't like the song that I heard in my head. Right, we were asking for authentic, we were asking for conversational, and those people that could really come into the first few words, that sounded like they had a story, they had a person they were talking to, those were the ones that perked up my ears. And, of course, those that had a very different, a very different sound as well. I mean, I will say I mean I can't say that your sound doesn't come into play here, because, again, we're hiring people based upon how we think they're going to effectively sell our product. Right, what?   0:14:40 - Lau about you Lau? I would agree, and I made a concerted effort to come in with a very open mind and play the producer, who has not as much idea of what I'm actually looking for. I just know, I know the product, I know the school, I know the program, I've seen their advertising campaigns. I get that, yeah, but I want to keep an open mind because I'm not exactly sure which direction I want to go in. Yeah, age wise, diversity factor, accent wise and I'm glad I did that, because everyone was so different and so unique. I would have been let down only in the sense that I would have been looking for that needle in a haystack.   Oh, I was looking at the whole haystack and because we did that, our shortlist was so diverse.   0:15:27 - Anne Oh, it was no two people who are alike, right.   0:15:30 - Lau You'd say, was there even a breakdown involved with this, because they were so large?   0:15:33 - Anne and that's what's so cool. What I love about what you just said was I said okay, I had an idea in mind, right, I know the demographic, I know the product and I know the type of sound that I'm looking for and that's what I'm gonna put in the casting specs. However, you're absolutely right. By being open-minded and hearing a bunch of different voices, then I started to think, well, okay, for this campaign, I like this voice because of this factor. I like this voice because that's the one I originally thought would be a really great choice for selling. But now I can see that this other voice, which may not have been anywhere, like I thought right, would really be effective in helping to sell my product as a casting director.   So, yes, keeping it open-minded, understanding, guys, that even though the casting specs may call for something, right, if you bring something unique to the read, you bring yourself, you bring that personality, you bring something that just makes us go oh, okay, I didn't think about that.   It really is a wonderful testament to, literally, your voice. It could be any voice, right, it doesn't have to be a particular sound, doesn't have to be a particular style, it can be you, it can be what you bring to the read and that can sway a casting director's choice, which is amazing, right, it's wonderful, it's hopeful and it makes you feel like, alright, well then, I still am gonna give my best, right? Well, if you're looking at the casting spectrum, I don't know, I'm probably not gonna get it. I mean, no, don't feel that way at all, because we were surprised very, and actually even in our decisions, right, in terms of who were we going to cast when it came down to it. Right, we were going back and forth between a couple of different voices and I think that, well, let's keep these guys on hold or on call back, or who else would be great for this campaign. There were multiple choices.   0:17:19 - Lau Yeah, and I was playing tricks in my head saying, oh, I can't wait to see who's gonna win this thing, because I have no idea right now. Literally throughout the whole thing, I literally Could not figure out who is going to win and who is going to book the gate, and I think that's very true and very accurate to the casting process. Many times it comes right down to the wire when everyone is disagreeing on a talent or maybe they need to bring in another talent, and you and I did that.   0:17:46 - Anne We weren't necessarily it didn't bring but, we were going back and forth about.   0:17:50 - Anne We wanted to narrow it down, and it was tough for us to narrow down those choices because we each had our own Independent, we had our favorites and we had people that we thought were best suited for the campaign. I'm glad that we were able to. Obviously, we awarded the gig to one person and that's a congratulations to Joshua Goodman and then we awarded to runners up, because that was something that we thought you know we're gonna keep you on our shortlist for perhaps the next campaign and that was Pat Kennedy, was one of our alternates and gender Macintosh. So congratulations to everybody and really congratulations to everyone who auditioned. I mean, I was so impressed with the professionalism and the talent that we heard and I'm excited to do this again, and I'm excited about changing up the scripts, the genre right and changing up the scripts and having even more people audition for this. So I think it was a real success. I don't know what are you excited about for what's up next?   0:18:51 - Lau Well, I'll tell you one piece of excitement, and I don't like to say this at the top. It's what we call metatheatrical. It's a reality within a reality, within a reality, but the truth is, this was not a mock audition when I looked at this, and I'm sure you were thinking this too, in regards to recommending clients for projects that you're a part of. I am always looking for new talent. So there will be people that I'm going to reach out to for MCVO contracts.   0:19:20 - Anne We don't say that and I'll be referring people because it becomes a top of mind. I know who my talent are Top of mind, yeah, and I'll be casting for projects as well. While I'm not a talent agent like yourself, I do have a number of clients that I help cast for and I actually have a couple of rosters that I place people that I recommend I place them for jobs and so the truth is is like it's a mock audition for educational purposes.   0:19:47 - Lau but there's a subtext of reality that whenever you're in front of working people in the industry, they're always going to be thinking about you for potential work. How do you put someone like us in front of some of these people and say don't look at them for work, just look at them as a student? It's not possible, because they're working people, they're working professionals. So we want to give educational value, lots of educational value and development, but we also want to potentially find new people.   0:20:19 - Anne we could be working with Awesome talent. No question, let's there to lose for auditioning, right? So our next audition demolition and again. By the time this airs, it may have passed already, but I really think, talking about our experiences with the first one, I think it ran gosh. It ran smoother than I even thought, and so I'm really excited to continue this on a regular basis because I think it's just so educational and, as bosses, we're all about the education. I'm all about providing a great resource. That's what we do here at the VioBoss podcast, and we're here to help. We're here to hopefully give you some advice and tips along your journey in this crazy voiceover industry that we all love so much. And hey, what can I?   0:21:03 - Lau say I think it's fantastic and I want to be clear to those who have no idea what we're talking about and want to get involved with it that you're getting literally hours worth of feedback. Oh yeah, not just a quick. That was great and you're done. You're getting all the written feedback first Plus and our Dropbox Plus.   You're going to show up on the contest day in real time live and you're going to get all sorts of feedback. You're going to hear everyone else's feedback. You're going to get to observe and steal and absorb everyone else's. Then you'll get your own. So it's like double feedback, Endless feedback.   0:21:38 - Anne It's like double feedback. It's more than if you just go to one session, because you're getting much more written feedback from both Lau and myself, whether you make the shortlist or not, and during the class you're going to have the exposure to finding out. If you're on the shortlist and even if you don't make the shortlist, you get to watch the others perform and be redirected and get that education as well. So I mean, gosh, the value I'm just saying the value is incredible, guys.   0:22:08 - Lau It's massive, it's huge. I mean, I don't know any other circumstance that offers that kind of thing.   0:22:14 - Anne And who offers cash? Who offers? Cash as a prize and the amount of time that we're dealing with a compressed amount of time, right, right, you can win back your money plus some, win back your investment and some, and have fun doing it and be top of mind for those people that may be able to help cast you in further roles.   0:22:34 - Lau So and do you have a couple of quick tips? I love tips, couple of quick tips for the next round of talent. Who are like I have to do this, I got to get in on this or the round that just came through. I know a lot of them are already talking about coming back. They want to have another go of it, they want to be challenged again. Let's talk about quickly a couple of tips that we can offer them when they come back. Good idea, when they're coming in for the first time.   0:22:58 - Anne Well, I'm going to say, first and foremost, do your research on the script, do some analysis before you run into your studio and just read it as if you this is the way you think it should sound.   I really think you've got to spend a few moments and, if you can, google the product, google the company, find out like who their demographic is, find out if they've had other campaigns. Take a look at those campaigns. See what their style is, what their brand is, what their mission statement is, and I think all of that information can help you to voice for that company better. And also make sure that you are, after the analysis, that you really look at it as an actor and I know you're gonna probably expound on this one, but I want you to really look on that script as an actor. You're not gonna probably get a storyboard with it, and so you have to try to imagine what's happening in the scene, always know who you are and who you're talking to, and really put yourself in a scene so that you are authentically in it, telling a story where all storytellers right. We have to tell the story. We have to engage the listener into a believable, authentic performance and Lau. I'm sure you're gonna go off on that one, oh my gosh.   0:24:11 - Lau I second that. I third that I also don't want you to lose that fun factor, because there is a tremendous fun factor to not just voicing the copy but also being with people in a room. When you're with people in a room, I know it's scary, it's nerve-wracking, you don't know who everyone is, but I want you to enjoy, like, really relish the moment and have a little bit of personalization as you. So some of the time when you were giving a direction in, or we gave an adjustment or we were just greeting people, there were some people that stuck out in my mind as being very memorable because they had that mix of business acumen with warmth and fun, and they smiled a lot. There was one talent His teeth were so white I couldn't stop looking at them. He just smiled the whole time because we were visually in a room seeing each other.   We weren't just hearing each other audio wise, but all of that counts for something it does. Yeah, so that I know, okay, this talent knows how to smile on a lot of commercial reads. This person knows how to be a warm, engaging person. So if they're dealing with our clients, they're gonna be that way, like there's a lot of reasons.   0:25:20 - Anne Good points, excellent Right.   0:25:22 - Lau We have to enjoy. Let go be social a little bit, be personable. We're not gonna waste time, we're not getting into huge conversations. It's not a party, but it is a real time engagement of real people, and those people stick in my mind and relationships do matter.   0:25:39 - Anne I mean, it's one of those things that, like you said, it's not a party that you're gonna be talking the director's ear off, but you certainly have to have a little bit of a personality and have a little bit of joy and a little bit of definitely a lot of professionalism, but also let us see a little bit about who you are and that will help us to understand what you can bring to the table Absolutely, and that's within your interactions. When we're giving you direction and feedback, all of that comes out. So, yeah, good advice.   0:26:06 - Lau I'm gonna throw in another one and say it's really important to warm up. We wouldn't know for sure because we weren't asking this question, but I would suspect there were a few people who are not quite as warmed up as they could have been, mainly because they were stumbling a lot, they were going back on lines, they weren't breathing well, they were holding the breath, and I do think a lot of that is just nerves.   0:26:29 - Anne It could be nerves.   0:26:30 - Lau Yeah, real time, but take the time, even if it's an hour. Sit in your booth or take the time to stretch, drink water, breathe the air, go over your lines, feel them through, personalize them, so that it isn't just about getting the script right or I gotta get through this and sound good. It's about how do I feel you and I talked a lot about like the person that you're being and talking to is this real person? Even though it had a little bit of a corporate, boxy language to it, it's real. They're real people. So you gotta do that in your warmup. You have to incorporate that all in your warmup. You can't warm up or come in and you're colder and then you're warming up as you audition. I never recommend that. I think you should come in fully engaged full throttle, full throttle and get ready to go.   I think that that was the difference. That was one of the big differences between the people who are a little bit on a higher level and people who are coming into it, kind of feeling it out.   0:27:29 - Anne Yeah, yeah, and absolutely, when you're hearing direction and feedback as well, if you've got that pencil and you've got the script or your pad, your iPad, whatever it is to make some notes, cause I know, in the heat of the moment, sometimes, when you're getting direction and feedback and they ask for another read, sometimes they give a lot of things, okay, and then over here, I'd like you to lighten up here and who are you talking to and I feel like, if you needed to make some quick notes, make sure that you have the ability to do that. I love that, yeah.   0:27:59 - Lau I even say you know, with a prop. If you're dealing with a prop and you like a prop and a prop works for you, make it a prop that counts. Make it something that is meaningful to you. The first thing that came to my mind was if I'm dealing with the University of Phoenix read, and if you watch the advertising campaigns, traditionally they're pretty heartful. There's a warmth and a thoughtfulness to it. It would be great to have what the diploma looks like in front of you, or what a graduate looks like in front of you or what personally, so that you can see how meaningful that is to someone. That is going to change their whole life. That piece of paper is going to change their whole life potentially, and just bringing that in with you can change your whole delivery versus. Let me just get the first line right. Yeah, Absolutely.   0:28:43 - Anne You know what I mean Absolutely and, like I said, I think that research and maybe looking at other commercials that they've done or other work that they've put out there to their potential clients, yeah, absolutely, that can really make a difference.   0:28:55 - Speaker 1 So wow Good, I'm excited. I can't wait for the next one. I can't wait, bosses stay tuned.   0:29:02 - Anne We will have the next dates on the VO Boss website, vobosscom. The events should be right there on the front page, and so we are looking forward to having all of you come and audition for us and take advantage of the audition. Demolition and Loth. Thank you so much, as usual, for another amazing discussion. Bosses, here's a chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceshoocareorg to commit. And a big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can network and connect like a boss. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, have an amazing week and we will see you at the next VO Boss audition demolition.   0:29:46 - Lau Yeah, see you then, woohoo, bye.   0:29:50 - Speaker 1 Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL yeah.   0:30:23 - Lau You really know your stuff.   0:30:28 - Anne I'd like somebody to say that to me you really know your stuff. I want every session to be like wow, that was amazing.   0:30:36 - Speaker 1 Oh my gosh, I know a man.   0:30:38 - Anne Bob, it's been. It's been years since we've had a talent.   0:30:41 - Speaker 1 It's somebody this talented. It's been years.   Transcribed by https://podium.page

Anne is joined by special guest Gillian Pelkonen to pull back the curtain on what it's like to be women in male-dominated industries. They candidly share their experiences, from the challenges and microaggressions they faced, to the emotional weight of feeling valued for their gender over their skills. But it's not all about the struggle. They also highlight the power of a strong support network and share inspiring stories of women who have stood tall in the face of adversity. Drawing from Gillian’s unique insights in the music industry and Anne’s working in tech, this episode is a deep dive into resilience, recognition, and the pursuit of equality. Tune in and join the conversation.   Transcript   Anne Ganguzza: Hey everyone, welcome to the V.O. Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Genguza, and today I am excited to bring back special guest, audio engineer, musician, and all around tech guru, Gillian Pelkonen to the podcast. Yay,   Gillian: Hello,   Anne Ganguzza: Gillian!   Gillian: Hi. Like so excited to talk and I feel like it's been forever since we got on and got to chat.   Anne Ganguzza: I know, I know. And I am so glad to have you here today. And you know, after introducing you as, because every time I talk with you, I experience something new that you know.   Gillian: I'm sorry.   Anne Ganguzza: And just, it's just, you're just, you're amazing, Gillian, if I'm just gonna say   Gillian: Oh,   Anne Ganguzza: that, you're amazing.   Gillian: thank you.   Anne Ganguzza: And I was thinking about this today. I was thinking about this today. I want to talk to you because I feel like you and I are, females in male-dominated fields. Because before I got into voiceover and demo production, I worked as a design engineer. And   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: then after that, I was in technology. And so I've always been working in male-dominated fields. And you, of course, being in the music industry and audio engineer, I think we've probably got a few similar experiences. And I think I'd love to talk to you about that.   Gillian: Yeah, I would love to talk to you as well because I mean, I've only been working for a couple years. I know that you're probably been working for a while and so obviously I'd love to talk to you because Thankfully, I think we have similar but different experiences because all of the work that you've done throughout your life has made my life easier and the trickle down and I just love talking to women mostly because I never see women every time I see a woman I'm like, oh my gosh could I hunkie you? Like   Anne Ganguzza: Ha   Gillian: I   Anne Ganguzza: ha   Gillian: never   Anne Ganguzza: ha!   Gillian: just men all the time or like a woman   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: non-binary person whatever because it's really is true.   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: There's um some statistics I was reading There's a really good article and research that was done I don't remember who but maybe I I'll put it in the show notes, that between producers and audio engineers, women make up 3% and they group producers and audio engineers   Anne Ganguzza: Wow.   Gillian: together within the music industry.   Anne Ganguzza: Wow,   Gillian: Is that crazy?   Anne Ganguzza: that's so small.   Gillian: I   Anne Ganguzza: That   Gillian: know.   Anne Ganguzza: is crazy.   Gillian: I know.   Anne Ganguzza: And I know so many talented females. And   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: I just know, I mean, look, I'm going to be honest with you. When people ask me about my career trajectory, I talk about when I went to college. And I've always been interested in technical and geeky things. I did pretty well in school and so I was encouraged to go into engineering.   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: I went to college and studied mechanical engineering and actually was like one of three females in the entire class that was studying engineering. I   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: grew up in a very small town and so I thought I would always talk about my geeky interests and the fact that I was the only girl that was in wood shop or those things. I always thought, well, it's because I come from a small town. But then when I went to college, and I was in a bigger population, I thought to myself, wow, I really kind of am in a smaller minority   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: in my engineering class because again, there's like three of us. And as a matter of fact, only one ended up graduating the program. I actually transferred into another engineering program and   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: graduated with a degree in computer graphics engineering. So when I got out of school, got a job as a design engineer for an orthopedic company. And thus began my corporate experience of being a female in probably a predominantly male-oriented field. And it was tough. It was really tough because there's, first of all, you don't have a lot of other females to, I guess, bond with about your job. And so. The few that are there, it seemed were, how do I put it, we're all very protective and all very, I think because people who have already been in that situation, I think protective of, protective of your job, protective of maybe your skill set in a way   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: because it was either being, I don't know. challenged   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: or being, yeah, I'm going to say challenged for lack   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: of a better word, but being challenged. And so it was really hard for me to find my footing. And,   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: you know, after that, you know, again, without going through my entire history, I worked in technology. I got out of engineering. Being an engineer in the late 80s was tough. And   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: I'm not, you know, I constantly say that I'm not bitter. And I really   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: wasn't because I was young and I was excited and I loved what I did. And I felt like the fact that I was kind of a smaller minority in the engineering group made me better at what I   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: did because I think I had to work harder and we can talk about that with you. I think working hard is kind of like, I've always been used to working hard anyways,   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: but sometimes I feel like I might have to work. triple hard to get   Gillian: And you   Anne Ganguzza: maybe   Gillian: definitely   Anne Ganguzza: the same recognition.   Gillian: did. It's like totally   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: not unreasonable to say that you would have had to, just to be taken as seriously as everybody   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: else.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah,   Gillian: It's   Anne Ganguzza: yeah.   Gillian: such a   Anne Ganguzza: You know,   Gillian: crazy   Anne Ganguzza: and after that,   Gillian: story, yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: yeah, and then after that, I spent 20 years in technology, which again was another male-dominated field. And so I was constantly being passed by to my male peers because they thought that they were in charge.   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: And so, again, you know, it was just one of those things where I literally... worked my tushy off. And I feel not quite as much, but I also feel like in the voiceover industry, to be a demo producer, a female demo producer, is there's not a lot of them out there.   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: And again, I feel like it's something that I feel like I work very hard at and very proud at it. And I'm very proud of being a demo producer. I love what I do. But let's talk about you. I mean, my goodness.   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: I mean, first of all, being as young as you are and as successful as you are, but I know that you must have gone through a lot of the same experiences as I did in the music industry and   Gillian: I have   Anne Ganguzza: in engineering.   Gillian: to say, I'm still going through it, and unfortunately, I hope not, but I assume I'll be going through it for the rest of my life, and really from talking with other women of various ages. And I really do look up to a lot of other older women because   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: they've gone through it and they can really mentor me. And I feel like between... the no matter what age you are, I just find so much camaraderie and people who really want to mentor me and help me. But the one thing I can say about my experience is that I never feel physically unsafe, which I know was not the case   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: for many people, which is a really scary thing to think about. And I always try to acknowledge that like I have these struggles and I want to talk about my experiences, but the fact that like I go into work and I don't feel physically unsafe is really cool. And it's an insane sentence to have to say, but I know from other people's experiences. things used to be a lot more outright and a lot more pointed and really   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Gillian: mean and the whole point was to be like this is our space and we don't want you here and so we're gonna try to make it difficult for you to stay here. I don't know if that was your experience   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Gillian: but I've heard that that's kind of like   Anne Ganguzza: You   Gillian: what   Anne Ganguzza: know,   Gillian: happened.   Anne Ganguzza: very interesting. Very interesting. I never had anybody, like, I never, nobody said that directly. However,   Gillian: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: I mean, now we're talking another area where there were other ways to try to intimidate   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: me as a female, which lean, you know, toward a me too kind of a thing,   Gillian: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: where, you know, people are trying to show their power. in   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: multiple ways. And I think as a female in a male-dominated field, if you have those types of issues that happen,   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: they're tough to navigate. Because again, if a woman is seen complaining, or, you know, and that's the thing. I think we were taught for so long to just maybe not say anything because   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: we would be judged.   Gillian: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: as bitter as, you know, it just, it's, that's, you know, we could, God, we could have a hundred podcast episodes on that. And, and   Gillian: I know   Anne Ganguzza: I think that   Gillian: there's so   Anne Ganguzza: over   Gillian: many   Anne Ganguzza: the   Gillian: things.   Anne Ganguzza: years, right? I mean, over the years, there's really just so many different intimidation tactics   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: that are different in, from male to female.   Gillian: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: or   Gillian: And   Anne Ganguzza: really   Gillian: I...   Anne Ganguzza: just anybody that's trying to get, and I don't even wanna say male, female, but because it could be non-binary, it could be   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: transgender, it could be a lot of different genders   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: that experience the same thing in a lot of   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: ways.   Gillian: Yeah, and I   Anne Ganguzza: And   Gillian: heard   Anne Ganguzza: I   Gillian: this   Anne Ganguzza: just...   Gillian: uh... The tricky guy.   Anne Ganguzza: Oh no, that's fine,   Gillian: Okay.   Anne Ganguzza: please.   Gillian: Yeah, I   Anne Ganguzza: Continue.   Gillian: heard this amazing thing on a podcast that I listened to because just for concision, to be concise. I'm gonna just say, you know, man, woman, but I did hear this amazing thing where   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: someone who was having a similar conversation was like, when I say woman, I mean someone who is not male, who is like within the minority. So women, when   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: I'm saying it, I'm sure   Anne Ganguzza: Okay.   Gillian: when we're talking about it, encompasses like transgender people, non-binary, and I know that that's not   Anne Ganguzza: Yes,   Gillian: their proper   Anne Ganguzza: yes.   Gillian: gender identity, but like in the discussion of like male, which is the default of women which is like basically could be used to talk about all those other people so I mean that's   Anne Ganguzza: Yes,   Gillian: I thought   Anne Ganguzza: yes,   Gillian: that   Anne Ganguzza: no,   Gillian: was cool   Anne Ganguzza: thank   Gillian: that   Anne Ganguzza: you   Gillian: someone   Anne Ganguzza: for clarifying   Gillian: said that   Anne Ganguzza: that. I   Gillian: yeah   Anne Ganguzza: thought that   Gillian: but   Anne Ganguzza: was the one. Yeah,   Gillian: I'm   Anne Ganguzza: yeah,   Gillian: just   Anne Ganguzza: no,   Gillian: my   Anne Ganguzza: absolutely,   Gillian: experience   Anne Ganguzza: and I'm glad that...   Gillian: as a woman that that's how I'm gonna talk about it because that's how I feel   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: about myself but there's also whether or not like you're Non-binary, if you are in a female presenting body, you do carry the weight of   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: being treated like a woman, which I know is another thing that   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Gillian: people who don't have that gender identity but get grouped in with women and have that female experience.   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Gillian: It's such a complicated issue because really we're talking about how other people perceive us, not really how we perceive ourselves in any which way.   Anne Ganguzza: Absolutely.   Gillian: Or that's what I found.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah,   Gillian: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: no, I love that. You're right. It is about how people perceive us   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: as opposed to how we perceive ourselves. And wow, that was just, all right, we can go home now because that was   Gillian: Ha   Anne Ganguzza: just   Gillian: ha   Anne Ganguzza: really   Gillian: ha!   Anne Ganguzza: an amazing perceptive. That was so amazing   Gillian: Hehehe   Anne Ganguzza: and perceptive. I love that. And so, I guess, talk to me   Gillian: I   Anne Ganguzza: a   Gillian: kind   Anne Ganguzza: little   Gillian: of,   Anne Ganguzza: bit   Gillian: yeah,   Anne Ganguzza: about   Gillian: I never talked about   Anne Ganguzza: maybe...   Gillian: what   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, I gotta   Gillian: I,   Anne Ganguzza: talk   Gillian: I just keep   Anne Ganguzza: to   Gillian: making   Anne Ganguzza: them.   Gillian: all   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: these like blanket statements, but I should, I'll talk about my specific experience.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: briefly,   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: the whole reason that I got into doing what I do now, which is for the most part audio engineering, assistant engineering, freelancing, which I do as a pretty solitary activity, so it's not like there's anything going on there.   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: But I was working in studios as an artist. I was recording. And I was being paired with a lot of male engineers. And I actually had, in all of college, all the engineers   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Gillian: I worked with, I had very positive experiences. one engineer who was a woman and I was I just connected with her so well it was such a great working relationship and Realistically, I just wanted more control and knowledge about what I was doing because I love to learn about what I'm interested in. But it was in the front of my mind that there's now a lot of women. I've been doing this for four years and I've been paired with all these men and only one woman and it was my best experience. Like what if I could do that? I feel like I can communicate with people well. All of these things that I think sometimes is lacking in men, which is a complete generalization when I say it and what I was thinking because I was 20 years old. at the time and I also thought well there's not that many women so it'll be a great thing for me to try because there's not many people like me. Sorry   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: my cat's acting up.   Anne Ganguzza: Absolutely.   Gillian: And so   Anne Ganguzza: Oh,   Gillian: I thought about that not...   Anne Ganguzza: I understand that.   Gillian: right? Not taking into account   Anne Ganguzza: Yes,   Gillian: that   Anne Ganguzza: I do.   Gillian: when I got into this male dominated field I would actually have to do it and be surrounded by men all day and I didn't think about all of the things   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Gillian: that would come into play like not being taken as seriously because of my gender or... you know, all of the like microaggressions   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm   Gillian: that people say. I just, and also like a weird thing that I still encounter and I'm still dealing with is what I've experienced is by being a woman in a male-dominated field, it's really easy to get your foot in the door, but once you're in the door, that's where like all the complication starts happening,   Anne Ganguzza: Ugh. Mm-hmm.   Gillian: which is crazy. And then there's this whole personal thing that I am still dealing with, which is when I'm working with other women, or if they're, I mean I love when there's another woman in the studio. It is so great, but I do have this weird feeling of, well, I'm only here because I'm a woman. And if there's another woman, then my special thing is no longer special. And the way I'm treated is it makes me think of myself as only my gender, and sometimes I have to step back and be like, you have to be... confident that you're more than just that, even though all day I'm treated like that's all I am.   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: So, I don't know, that's my experience. Those are some things on my mind when I talk about it and how I got here and I guess some of the things that I'm dealing with at the moment within myself.   Anne Ganguzza: Well, I'll tell you what you said about, you know, maybe it made getting in the door a little bit easier. I actually had that perception myself, you know, to   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: get in the door because, you know, employers want to feel like they're, you know, they're treating people fairly and so they need representation. But then you have   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: perception once you're there, right? I always feel like, okay, I got myself here in this position. Now I have to prove that I'm worthy. Right? And I feel like, okay, that's something that maybe, I mean, other people, do they feel the same? Do they have to prove that they're worthy of the position? Because there is perception that, you know what, oh, she's here because she's a, you know, she's a female. You know, I had that at my other job where people were like, well, they want a female in tech as a good role model. right,   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: for, you know, when I worked in the school, right? They want a female because she's a good role model for the kids now, and that's why she got the job. I'm like, but no, really, once I open my mouth, you'll probably hear why I got the job, because I can back it up, right,   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: with intelligence, and I can back it up with knowledge of the job, of which I do.   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: And, you know, it did get to be tiring. you know, to constantly, constantly have to prove myself. Now, I'm gonna tell you that in the majority of situations, at least in my experience, I had a boss who never, I would say, discriminated. As a matter of fact, he was very encouraging. And, but it was so many other people that I came into contact with. And we worked with different vendors. from all across the world, really, who I was a manager. And constantly I would be meeting these people in person that would come into the facility and just pass me by or ask me, like literally ask me if I could get them a coffee. And that was just, I mean, that was just one of those things. And I've got, yeah, no.   Gillian: I get this like   Anne Ganguzza: Or   Gillian: anger inside   Anne Ganguzza: ask me   Gillian: me   Anne Ganguzza: to be   Gillian: hearing   Anne Ganguzza: a secretary.   Gillian: this.   Anne Ganguzza: Well, see what that, I would always be asked, by the way, to volunteer on boards, you know, and of course, there's a thing, like in the corporate world, it was, and I don't know if it's still a thing, but it used to be a thing where if you were on the board, you know, it was a nice asset on your resume. And so people would always ask me to be, well, the president, the vice president, no, they'd say, will you be the secretary? And I'm like, No, I don't take notes. I don't, I don't, you know what I mean? It was just, it came back to that whole like, well, she's female and she's blonde, so she must be the secretary and she must, she'll take the good notes. And I'm like, no, I'm actually really bad at that. Ha ha   Gillian: It's...   Anne Ganguzza: ha.   Gillian: yeah, it's insane. The assumptions that we make about people and like, oh, you're not being good at taking notes. You're like a bad woman. Because if you're   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: a woman, you know how   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Gillian: to make the coffee and take the notes. I get, it's so funny, because nobody will ask you to be a secretary anymore, but they'll like... ask me to do stuff and when I break down what it is it's like secretary oh you should just email the people you're really good at that   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: you should just talk to people on the phone you're really good at   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: that and i'm like how would you know i'm good at that i've never done it i mean i would be   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah,   Gillian: because i'm good at a lot   Anne Ganguzza: exactly.   Gillian: of things but it's so crazy and honestly i know you were saying earlier about being bitter and it's like i'm not bitter i'm angry. Like I get so angry, the stuff that people say, and especially I get mad about myself, but I get mad about other people too, because it's the fact that we have to go through this. And sometimes I think to myself, like, how good could I be at my job if I didn't have to worry about my gender all day or be fighting these comments all day? Like   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: it's, it's so crazy the things that people have, I mean I could, I could say like the ridiculous things people have said to me. I get really frustrated. when people treat treat it like it's cute that I'm working, like it's an option, like, oh, it's   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: so cute that you're doing this or doing that. I'm learning some more technical stuff. I'm training to be a tech assistant in a studio, which would basically mean that if gear broke, I would know how to fix it. I'm helping him in the sense that if he has a piece of gear, it'll be like, oh, you do this part. Like today we built some XLR cables and   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Gillian: then we built some instrument cables and he was working on the inside of a piece of gear. So he was that when I need to put them back in like they're ready, stuff like that. And some guy came, some guy I'd never met before came in and saw that I was I was soldering and I was building this cable and he was like, oh do you have a license to do that? And the tech   Anne Ganguzza: My God!   Gillian: technician was like, I don't have a license to do this, like what are you talking about? Like it was just... I'm like, just because I'm doing something you perceive I shouldn't be doing, you're gonna like, make a comment about   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: it? So   Anne Ganguzza: Now,   Gillian: weird.   Anne Ganguzza: let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question. Do you think age has anything to do with it? I mean, was it an older person, or was it a younger   Gillian: Yes.   Anne Ganguzza: person? Do you find that you   Gillian: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: get flack from both younger   Gillian: I do think...yeah,   Anne Ganguzza: and maybe all ages?   Gillian: I find that older people have older views, like, or more... archaic is such a bad word, but like, archaic views of like,   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: this is what a woman should do. I mean, I've had... Yeah, especially I think yes. The answer is yes. When I work with people who are who are older I do find That they're less open-minded to anybody of any   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Gillian: gender   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: identity doing things Which I do understand to some extent because their world Was that way and it's just not that way anymore so I sometimes with I don't know I try to have more patience   Anne Ganguzza: Well   Gillian: with   Anne Ganguzza: then,   Gillian: people like   Anne Ganguzza: then   Gillian: that,   Anne Ganguzza: you might   Gillian: but   Anne Ganguzza: have, yeah, I was gonna say then it might be a combination of, is it because you're female or is it because you're young?   Gillian: Oh yeah,   Anne Ganguzza: There's   Gillian: for   Anne Ganguzza: that   Gillian: me.   Anne Ganguzza: as well, you know? Mm-hmm,   Gillian: I   Anne Ganguzza: mm-hmm.   Gillian: find it's like a double whammy of terrible. It's like, well, you're young and experienced. But I do, whenever   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: I'm doubting myself, and if there's anyone out there who's listening to this and is doubting themselves, I always ask, would the same question be asked or be appropriate to be asked to a male coworker?   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: And that always answers my question.   Anne Ganguzza: Now, I think, mm-hmm. Now, you know, it's so interesting because here we are doing a podcast and we're talking about our experiences about being in a male-dominated field and what has happened to us. And yet, I feel like I have to explain to the audience right now that, you know, I'm not bitter. Uh... I really don't feel better. I mean, there's, so there are things that I feel are maybe not just, and I've, you know, I feel like I've lived my life long enough to understand that, okay, there are things that are not just in this world   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: and, you know, I have to kind of suck it up, buttercup, and, you know, and deal with it. I will say. And I don't want to apologize or say to the bosses out there that I'm sorry for this conversation or feel like   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: I need to tread lightly. But I will say that some of the positives that have come out of, I guess, maybe not being treated as fair as we would like is that I worked harder, and because I worked harder, I got better. And   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: I'm proud of that. I don't feel like maybe I shouldn't have had to work so hard, but I do feel proud of the fact that I am capable and very competent   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: at what I do. And I think that that's been a positive that's happened. And I do believe that over the years, I feel that women have been speaking up more. And I feel like that's a good thing because it needs to be something, it needs to be talked about. It just needs to be talked about.   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: And I think the more we talk about things, and this is in any situation, right? I mean, I just feel that if the conversations are open and they've begun, then we can start to heal and move forward and have progress.   Gillian: Yeah, and I think I agree that there have been a lot of things in my life that I've had to work harder than I should have or something happened and I had to do something at someone else who with a different experience may not have that has made me the person I am, but I do wish that things were different because I'm sure even without having to work harder   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: you were very good at your job. And I feel like I'm...   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-mm. Yeah.   Gillian: I'm doing what I'm doing   Anne Ganguzza: You   Gillian: and   Anne Ganguzza: were   Gillian: you   Anne Ganguzza: too.   Gillian: did   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: what you're doing and hopefully throughout your lifetime and my lifetime we just keep pushing the needle. I do really like talking about it because I like listening to people talk about it. It's so cathartic to not be   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Gillian: gaslit into thinking that, oh maybe it   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Gillian: really is just because I'm not good at my job. I'm not capable. I deserve to be, you know, passed over for promotions or not being taken seriously or not being asked   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: to be the VP on the committee or whatever   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Gillian: it was. Like maybe I am only the secretary and I just don't think that that's true.   Anne Ganguzza: Well, yeah, and I think it's such a valid point that you bring up that we question ourselves.   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: And as long as I've been in industries, and as long as I've been alive and working hard and feeling like I got great at what I did or am becoming a better person and being better at it, I also still question myself. And I still self-sabotage myself once in a while, and I know better. And   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: I think it's something that's very real for   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: I think a lot of women.   Gillian: Mm.   Anne Ganguzza: Gosh, you know, I totally get that. I mean,   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: I get it, I understand it. And so what do you do, you know, what do you do, Gillian, to, I don't know, bring yourself out of that? Because it's so easy to talk yourself into, you know, that kind of a funk where you're like, oh, you know, maybe I don't deserve this job, or maybe, you know, these people are better than me.   Gillian: I honestly, I don't know what I mean. What do I do? I mean, I haven't stopped doing what I'm doing yet, which is just continuing   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah,   Gillian: to show   Anne Ganguzza: yeah,   Gillian: up.   Anne Ganguzza: yeah.   Gillian: I think because I love what I do. For me, feeling like I'm not good enough, that makes me want to show up more, which is kind of like what you said, you've worked harder.   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Mm-hmm.   Gillian: And really the reason that I don't give up first, I mean... I really think it's because I do love what I do and because of the people that I've spoken to and knowing that as hard as I perceive that I have it, it has been harder. And hopefully, I just keep working to hope that 10 years from now I'll meet someone who's telling me about their problems and I'll be relieved that they're not the problems that I had. And knowing that by sh-   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: basically, I kinda said this earlier, but whether it's intentional or subconscious or unintentional, for minority groups in a work setting is to push them out. And I'm kind of determined not to be pushed out. And so I guess that's really like   Anne Ganguzza: Mm, mm-hmm.   Gillian: the motivating factor is to just be   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Gillian: like, you can bully me, but like you can't bully me out of my job because I wanna be one day someone who is higher up who can have a diverse group of people and a diverse group of voices in the room, whether or not the people who are currently in the room   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Gillian: want to see that day. So I don't know,   Anne Ganguzza: And   Gillian: what is it for you?   Anne Ganguzza: I'll tell you, you know, it's, well, I think talking to people helped me, you know, other people. that are in similar kind of situations. Like talking to you actually is helpful. And just knowing that you're not fighting it alone, I think that's number one. And I look to people that I see as examples. I mean, I had a wonderful representative that I worked with a long time ago who was in the middle of transitioning to a woman. And... And she held a very high ranking position in the company that   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: I was dealing with. And she was just the bravest soul,   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: because it was about 20 years ago, if not longer.   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: And she refused to quit   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: her job. And I know that it could not have been easy for her. And   Gillian: I don't   Anne Ganguzza: so   Gillian: think it's easy   Anne Ganguzza: I constantly   Gillian: now.   Anne Ganguzza: thought that   Gillian: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: she Yeah, and I don't think it's easy, but I constantly think about that. And I just say, you know what, I think if she could do it, if she could have the courage to kind of stick it out and   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: just stand up for what is right and what is just, because she was excellent at her job,   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: and did not be pushed out by the... And it was a very large company that was kind of... That could have had that mentality that   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: a little bit more old school.   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: I'm quite sure 20 years ago, it was not something that people did every day.   Gillian: No,   Anne Ganguzza: It just wasn't.   Gillian: yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: It was a different time then. And I'm thankful that we have people out there today that are defiant and   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: willing to stand up for who they are and willing to, I guess, fight or defend what they do.   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: in the environment that they do because they're good at it and for no other reason right that they are doing what they do And they don't have to necessarily prove to anyone That they you know can do the job   Gillian: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's a big burden that gets put on us for to just,   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: you know, be doing that. But yeah, oh, I had a train of thought and then I lost it because I was into what you were saying. But even like the VioBoss podcast, so many women on this podcast and so many voices that get to be heard, which   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: is like so amazing. I mean, you're still doing the work and all of the stuff. And like, I always   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Gillian: like when I see women who did it, like my mom did it. She worked on Wall Street in a time that like... when   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Gillian: there weren't many women doing it. And I always want to be like, thank you for your service, because it literally is because it's so difficult to like endure it. And everyone has their different coping   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Gillian: mechanisms and everyone does it in a different way. And we were talking about this before we went on air, but like everybody. hates women, like men hate women and women are taught to hate each other and I feel like there's a lot of stuff   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Gillian: of like, you're not doing it right or like you're acting a certain way and it's like we're all just trying to get through it and the more that we can realize that like we   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: do have each other, we don't need to fight each other, we can actually like be stronger as a group, then that'd be great if we did that more often.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. I mean, I love that sentiment. But you're right. I mean, you know, I feel like sometimes even from women, it's hard, you know, because there's so many different preconceived notions about what women, you know, what they should be doing, if they're   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: capable of, you know, what, you know, should. I mean, gosh, I feel like we're going backwards in time. I mean, well, that's a whole nother podcast, but   Gillian: Hahaha!   Anne Ganguzza: politically, I mean, we're talking about, you know, you know, just rights, human rights, basic human   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: rights. And, you know, I think, again, I love the fact that we are opening a dialogue here. And   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: I'll tell you what, I mean, we could probably do five or six more podcasts, if not 105. But   Gillian: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: I do want to say I really appreciate, really appreciate your input. And I'm glad that you were open to discussing this with me, because I think it took courage. It took courage to do that. And so, yes, I love that. And bosses out there, we'd love to hear from you, love to hear   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: what your thoughts are. And just I think if we can all just... Do what we do best and be confident in that and not have to worry about gender playing any type of a role in it. I think it would just be a better world.   Gillian: Yeah. And thank you for using this podcast and this platform to talk about this because clearly without talking about it in the choices, you are talking about it, but it is really good to talk about it. And I'd love to   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: continue the conversation, involve more people, more bosses, more hosts just to talk about our experience because   Anne Ganguzza: Yes.   Gillian: it makes us feel less alone. And bosses, when you're out   Anne Ganguzza: Absolutely.   Gillian: there working your little butts off, we see you. And if it's   Anne Ganguzza: Hehehehehehe   Gillian: hard, you have two friends who are- cheering for you.   Anne Ganguzza: Yes. Oh my God, what a wonderful, beautiful way to end that. Thank you, Gillian, so much. Bosses, I am going to ask you if you have a local nonprofit that's close to your heart, if you're wishing that you can do more to help them, you certainly can. Visit 100VoicesWhoCare.org to learn how. And a big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like bosses and find out more at IPDTL.com. Guys, have an amazing week. and we'll see you next week. Thanks so much. Bye.

What fuels your entrepreneurial spirit? The key lies in having a robust support system. This week, Anne & Lau talk about the indispensable role of support in the journey of entrepreneurship. They explore how the encouragement from our loved ones serves as a pillar of strength during challenging times, and discuss ways to navigate situations where support is shaky or absent. They also dive into the essence of financial independence and the peace it can infuse into relationships. Unraveling the secret to keeping your business finances organized and the wonders of a dedicated workspace, they guide you on a path of entrepreneurial success. Entrepreneurship can often feel like a lonely journey, but remember Bosses, you're not alone!   Transcript   It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne Ganguzza: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Gangusa, and I am here with the one and only, most beautiful, Lau Lapides.   Lau Lapides: Oh, thank you Anne. Hey   Anne Ganguzza: Hey, Lau.   Lau Lapides: everyone. Wonderful to see ya.   Anne Ganguzza: Law, I've been very reflective this week.   Lau Lapides: Oh,   Anne Ganguzza: Yes.   Lau Lapides: I love that chair.   Anne Ganguzza: Very reflective because I was thinking about, oh gosh, I've just been reading. There's so much chaos out there in social media and stuff, and I was thinking to myself, I feel so lucky to have my supportive group that supports me in my business. I know that not everybody has that.   Lau Lapides: Mmm.   Anne Ganguzza: And I thought we should talk about your VO support group, people that support you, and especially people close to you and your family. I don't know where I would be if my husband did not support this endeavor of mine, because it really does, it really takes, I think it takes courage because... Being an entrepreneur, running your own business, it's so much different than the corporate life that I used to lead where   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: I just got paid every other week and I could depend on that paycheck. And I know that the way that this industry just kind of is up and down and crazy, it takes a lot for   Lau Lapides: Yeah, yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: someone to support that.   Lau Lapides: And gratitude is great. And   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Lau Lapides: we really have to have, honestly, we have to have gratitude. It's so important to just celebrate the moments that we do share with our loved ones, our family, our friends, our colleagues, our really our circle, you know, our inner circle, our   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Lau Lapides: outer circle that really helps support us. And like reflect as you said, where would we be? without these people would we be where we are? And I'm going to be even non-PC for a moment and say, where would we be without these people simply tolerating us? Like think about that. Like what person slash woman you know would even say such a thing. But the truth is it's hard. It's a hard life in a lot of ways.   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm, so   Lau Lapides: And   Anne Ganguzza: many   Lau Lapides: it's   Anne Ganguzza: ways.   Lau Lapides: difficult. And we show the stress of it at times.   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Lau Lapides: We show the impatience, we show the fast moving, we show the exhaustion. And to have that group, that circle, not only support it, but tolerate it,   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: when they may not be experiencing that, they may not live that kind of lifestyle, they may not even understand it, but yet they're tolerating it, they're welcoming it, and then they're building you up. That is unbelievable when you have that on your   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah,   Lau Lapides: side.   Anne Ganguzza: yeah. And I think there's so much that as bosses, right, that we don't anticipate having to experience or know or, I guess, go through when you own your own company. There's just so many things that I think, I don't know if you can prepare yourself. Do you know what I mean? You can prepare yourself for, you know, I guess technically, right? You   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: know, oh, it takes, these are the steps that you need to, you know, create a business entity. These are the steps you need to market your business. These are the steps. So there's these technical steps that we follow, but then if things don't go the way that we hope them to go, right,   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: that can just throw a whole wrench into... the business and in your mental outlook. And that is something that I think I was unprepared for, the uncertainties of it and handling the uncertainties of that. And then of course, anybody that supports me   Lau Lapides: Mmm.   Anne Ganguzza: has to go through all these emotions with me. And that is asking a lot. So again, I'm very, very grateful that I do have that support. And bosses, I mean, I know this is difficult, and you may not even know, right? Down the road, what sort of things could happen that might, I don't know, change the way that your support system feels about voiceover or being a voiceover entrepreneur, and especially these days with the disruptive technologies that are out there. I can't imagine, I do know that there's a lot of people that are... uncertain about what's happening in the future. And so I think their support system is also like seeing that, reading that. How do you, what would you say for people that aren't experiencing support from their family? What can they do?   Lau Lapides: Gosh, I was just about to ask you, this is the rhetorical question of the day is like, what do we do when we don't have the support or when we feel completely alone or when we have a partner or a spouse   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: or even a child or even a best friend that is sabotaging your dreams   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Lau Lapides: or   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: getting in the way, maybe they're sucking all the time. the energy from you. Maybe they're dragging you down in the   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Lau Lapides: mud with their own problems, maybe, right? And you think,   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah?   Lau Lapides: wow, who is there with me to go on this journey and really help me through, support me through this? I don't really have that many   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: people to do that. And I think there are a couple things that we can do to sort of band-aid that situation. I'm not   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-mm.   Lau Lapides: so sure you can ever totally fix it, but the one thing I would like to suggest, and I have a few clients like this too, sneaking around the bushes so that their husband doesn't find out   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Lau Lapides: that they're spending the little bit of tertiary income on   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah,   Lau Lapides: on lessons.   Anne Ganguzza: coaching or yeah.   Lau Lapides: I say listen you know um it's easy for me to say listen just be brave and just tell them and just   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: you know stand up to it but I'm not in that relationship and   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Lau Lapides: I don't know the the dynamics of what's going on so in essence I don't really have the right to say that one thing I can say that has worked for me in many times of my life is If there is someone that is not working out, they're not positive minded, they don't have the forward thinking, upward mobility energy   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: that   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: I crave and that I want in my connections, I simply cut them loose. Not in a bad way,   Anne Ganguzza: way,   Lau Lapides: not   Anne Ganguzza: not   Lau Lapides: in a   Anne Ganguzza: in   Lau Lapides: toxic   Anne Ganguzza: a toxic   Lau Lapides: way,   Anne Ganguzza: way,   Lau Lapides: not in   Anne Ganguzza: not in   Lau Lapides: an   Anne Ganguzza: an   Lau Lapides: angry   Anne Ganguzza: angry   Lau Lapides: way,   Anne Ganguzza: way,   Lau Lapides: but in   Anne Ganguzza: but   Lau Lapides: a   Anne Ganguzza: in   Lau Lapides: way   Anne Ganguzza: a way   Lau Lapides: where   Anne Ganguzza: where   Lau Lapides: I sort   Anne Ganguzza: I sort   Lau Lapides: of prioritize   Anne Ganguzza: of prioritize that   Lau Lapides: that   Anne Ganguzza: they're   Lau Lapides: they're not   Anne Ganguzza: not   Lau Lapides: going   Anne Ganguzza: going   Lau Lapides: to   Anne Ganguzza: to   Lau Lapides: be   Anne Ganguzza: be   Lau Lapides: taking   Anne Ganguzza: taking   Lau Lapides: a lot   Anne Ganguzza: a lot   Lau Lapides: of my   Anne Ganguzza: of my   Lau Lapides: time.   Anne Ganguzza: time.   Lau Lapides: They're not going to be. forefront in my life because I have to keep my goals alive. And finding those, we talked about this once before, those growth people. Where are   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: those growth people   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: that can help me through that I can soundboard to, that I can vent to, that I can learn from, that can help me grow and also validate me? Like   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Lau Lapides: really validate the choices. So finding whether it's an accountability group or self-help group   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: or just a friend that is also working on a career where they're   Anne Ganguzza: where they're   Lau Lapides: moving   Anne Ganguzza: moving   Lau Lapides: up,   Anne Ganguzza: up   Lau Lapides: but   Anne Ganguzza: but   Lau Lapides: others   Anne Ganguzza: others   Lau Lapides: are   Anne Ganguzza: are. Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: holding them down, is to help each other grow and get to the next step.   Anne Ganguzza: Right, right.   Lau Lapides: Get a buddy.   Anne Ganguzza: And I, well, I'll tell you what, and I think that that's absolutely something that if you are not getting support, let's say from your spouse or significant other, that I think is almost critical for you to, you know, to survive in the industry. Because I know I've had a few people that I know where their spouses were not in support and consistently   Lau Lapides: Yeah,   Anne Ganguzza: were dragging them down.   Lau Lapides: I have two.   Anne Ganguzza: consistently demanding, you know, where's the money going? Why are you not making any money? You know, you need to help support the family, get a real income, or whatever it is, right? It's hard enough to run your own business and to deal with the uncertainties that you face with your own, maybe, insecurities, in maybe, I'm not familiar with this territory, and I need to learn more, and I need to, you know, what do I need to do to make it? to make it successful, let alone having the people around you, right, trying to bring you down or sabotage you, as you mentioned. So   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: that's   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: very difficult. So it's super important to have that support somewhere to keep you lifted up and to keep your momentum going forward   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: in that situation.   Lau Lapides: And you know what I've seen too, more often than not, that the family or the close people to this   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: person, it's not that they're unsupportive or they're against them. It's just they're not actively or proactively doing things to make their path easier. So   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Lau Lapides: I'll give you an example. A mom who's got children, whether they're young children or whether they're teenage children, whatever. I've heard this from several of my clients, like it took forever. And like, don't you have a setup? Where's your studio? Where's your   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: desk? Are you setting up a mic? Months and months and months and months would go by. I'd say, what's going on? It's not a money issue. No, it's just, you know, I can't find space in my house. You know, my   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Lau Lapides: kid needs the space for football and my other kid needs the space for this. Then my husband wants the space for his disc. And then   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: and I said, well, wait a second. Where's your space? Where's your studio?   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: Where's   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: your identity? So it's that idea of that liberation and that freedom and that courage to say, I count too, I matter too. This is not the only role I play   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm,   Lau Lapides: as mom   Anne Ganguzza: mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: or dad,   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Mom or,   Lau Lapides: since   Anne Ganguzza: do   Lau Lapides: we have   Anne Ganguzza: you have   Lau Lapides: a lot   Anne Ganguzza: a spouse?   Lau Lapides: of dads   Anne Ganguzza: Yep,   Lau Lapides: at   Anne Ganguzza: mm-hmm,   Lau Lapides: home too.   Anne Ganguzza: yep.   Lau Lapides: Dad, I'm not only dad, I'm not only a breadwinner. I'm someone who's a creative, I'm an   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: artist, and I wanna be a talent, and I'm moving towards this. So I have to have the respect zone   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: of   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: my   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: space and really claim that. That's actually, I've seen that a lot, Ann.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah,   Lau Lapides: I've seen   Anne Ganguzza: yeah.   Lau Lapides: that more often than not.   Anne Ganguzza: Oh, absolutely. And it makes it doubly hard or triple difficult for, I think, these people to gain traction in the industry because it's almost like they have to prove themselves before they'll get any support.   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: You know, well, when are you going to get a voice-over job? I mean, when are you going to book something? That kind of a thing. And so it's always an uphill climb to get that space, that recording space, to get that that, you know, they have to either go out and get a part-time job so they can make money so they can pay for coaching, so they can get a demo. But I'll tell you what, I would say that the majority of my clients who I have found that have done that and have persevered. through that have been some of the most successful   Lau Lapides: Yes.   Anne Ganguzza: voiceover businesses that I know now because they have the resilience   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: and they had the commitment and through it all they persevered. and were   Lau Lapides: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: able to finally, you know, and not only prove to themselves, but end up proving to any of the members of the family that we're not necessarily as supportive as they could have been, that this is a viable career. It is a viable, you know, it is a viable thing for me to do and to make money at it.   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. And you just said it earlier, you know, don't just ask, ask. You got to give too. So don't just ask for space and what you need. Be willing to work a little harder. Be willing to work   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Lau Lapides: extra.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: One suggestion I'd like to make too that seems kind of like, oh, but isn't that like a 1952 thing? No, it's not. I'm not suggesting to separate all of your finances in your life. That's how   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Lau Lapides: whatever you're gonna do with your spouse, with your partner is what you're gonna do. But I'm just talking about our career, your career, your space as a talent, have separate finances. And that way, not only can   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: you track for your tax purposes and your studio expenses, and it keeps it really clean for your bookkeeper and your accountants at the   Anne Ganguzza: Yep,   Lau Lapides: end of   Anne Ganguzza: absolutely.   Lau Lapides: the year, but it also keeps this anonymity or privacy about not having to ask permission of the other all the time   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: to get what you need or what you want for your career. Like   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: that should be your choice and your independent choice and if it comes down to money, well maybe you do need to get another   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Lau Lapides: side job or another   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: hustle or   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: another whatever so that you can have that privacy ready to go when you need it rather than depending on allowances   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: from others.   Anne Ganguzza: And I love that you said that. And I think honestly, if you want to talk about the single biggest thing that I think that is lacking from the clients who don't get the support from their significant other spouse, it is the financial aspect of it. And so yeah, and I always look before there was even voiceover.   Lau Lapides: Hmm?   Anne Ganguzza: I don't know what it was, but personally when I got married, I always had my own account. I had my account, you know, I was on my own before I met my husband. We met each other late in life. And so I, you know, I had my own account. I owned a house and that kind of thing. And what I love about that is it made me financially independent.   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: And I was able to, when my husband and I got married, I just said, well, I'm keeping my account and you keep your account and we'll just have a joint account that we both will   Lau Lapides: Yeah,   Anne Ganguzza: put   Lau Lapides: yeah,   Anne Ganguzza: in.   Lau Lapides: yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: But nothing has to go into the main account unless we decide to put it in. We both kept separate accounts. And I was able to keep track. And first of all, it makes it super easy when you are creating a business, right, to keep your   Lau Lapides: Yes.   Anne Ganguzza: business finances separate.   Lau Lapides: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: And that's kind of cool because any of you that might have trouble explaining, Why do you need a separate account? Well, it's a business, right? So therefore   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: you have a separate account. You can do whatever you need to do to put money in that account so that you can make investments, take the money out of that account for coaching, demos, studio space, whatever it is that you need to grow your business. And I think that that has really been something that for me, I mean... They say that a lot of couples argue, and money is the number one thing that they might argue about. I can't say that I've ever argued about money   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: since having an independent account. And   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: having the respect that I have one, my spouse has one, and we also have a joint account that we throw money in, if we want to take a vacation, or we want to landscape the backyard, or whatever it might be,   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: we... put into that account, but there's   Lau Lapides: That's   Anne Ganguzza: no expectations.   Lau Lapides: right.   Anne Ganguzza: And I think   Lau Lapides: That's   Anne Ganguzza: that's   Lau Lapides: right.   Anne Ganguzza: such a great suggestion law for anybody that might be experiencing difficulties or lack of support from a significant other, is just go and open that business account, right? Because you need one anyways, in order to incorporate or run that business efficiently and effectively.   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. And then this was a running joke between one of my colleagues and myself at my studio. It was like, well, I literally, law, literally could not find any space in my house for my studio. I   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: couldn't, it either had a technical issue or my kids were there or the   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: TV was on or the dogs were there. I said, great. Now you need to get a she shed.   Anne Ganguzza: Yes, absolutely, as   Lau Lapides: Or   Anne Ganguzza: she   Lau Lapides: a   Anne Ganguzza: said.   Lau Lapides: he shed   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: or a they   Anne Ganguzza: Uh,   Lau Lapides: shed. I   Anne Ganguzza: yep.   Lau Lapides: don't care what pronoun   Anne Ganguzza: Yep.   Lau Lapides: you use, but you need   Anne Ganguzza: Yep.   Lau Lapides: a shed.   Anne Ganguzza: You need a pronoun shed.   Lau Lapides: Yes, you need a pronoun shed that is an independent structure that stands on its own separate from your dwelling   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: Because I am a person of no excuses. I just don't think there's an excuse for not being able to work I think   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah,   Lau Lapides: like if you   Anne Ganguzza: yeah.   Lau Lapides: have a problem fix it like   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: make it into this well, but it's expensive Well, it's an investment. It's   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah,   Lau Lapides: a write-off.   Anne Ganguzza: right.   Lau Lapides: It's not a cost, it's a write-off. And it's your private space.   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm,   Lau Lapides: You can decorate   Anne Ganguzza: absolutely.   Lau Lapides: it. You can put up whatever you need to put up. You can scream. You can do   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: yourself tapes. You can do your MP3s. And it's freedom for you. And I think that if you can't find anything in your apartment or anything anywhere, they say, wait a second, I don't own the land law. I'm in an apartment. What do I do there? Well,   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: think about that. Where can you go? that you can either build something   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: or you can rent something by the hour. Now   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: people are dying to get you into their podcast spaces and their audio spaces to rent by the hour because so many people are at home that   Anne Ganguzza: that   Lau Lapides: they   Anne Ganguzza: they   Lau Lapides: can't even   Anne Ganguzza: can't   Lau Lapides: rent.   Anne Ganguzza: even rent.   Lau Lapides: You can   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: go to places like workspaces and staples   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: and   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: all sorts of places really cheaply. and rent by the hour. I mean, is   Anne Ganguzza: Is   Lau Lapides: it a fix forever? No, but   Anne Ganguzza: it a fix forever?   Lau Lapides: it's   Anne Ganguzza: No. Yeah.   Lau Lapides: in the interim,   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: it's good   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: now until you figure out your next move. Like   Anne Ganguzza: Absolutely.   Lau Lapides: there's always an answer to   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: that.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, there's always a solution. I truly believe there is always a solution, if you want it bad enough, right? I mean,   Lau Lapides: Hehe,   Anne Ganguzza: gosh,   Lau Lapides: yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: we travel and we record in hotels. So   Lau Lapides: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: pillow forts. I mean, there is a solution, pillow forts. Uh. and the right mic and the right interface will get you, you know, a place, your car.   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: If you can go to the car, that can be a studio. So I think where there's a will, there's a way. And I will say that, you know, having that, definitely having that independent financial account that allows you to, you know. draw upon that for investment into your she shed, into your renting of a studio, or your rig that allows you to go to the car to record and do your auditions. Whatever that might be, I think that there is a solution for it. And in the interim, I think it just, the tenacity and just keeping through it, making sure that you have support somewhere. that can keep you lifted up, going towards, heading towards your goal. I think that's just very, very important. There's a lot of wonderful supportive communities here. At VOBoss here, we're here to support you. Accountability groups are amazing.   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: Community groups are amazing. Lots of great Facebook groups out there. I've got my VOP's group and Law, you've got your group   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: as well. And, you know... And Bev Stani has the water cooler group, which is just kind of fun if you want to get together with other voice of artists. I know there's so many wonderful accountability groups that can really help in that situation. And yeah, I mean, I   Lau Lapides: I   Anne Ganguzza: think   Lau Lapides: think   Anne Ganguzza: there's...   Lau Lapides: too, Ann, along with that, like hand in hand, depending on what your belief system is, sometimes you need spiritual groups as well.   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm, mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: Sometimes you need people that are going to lift your spirit, whether you're religious or not   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: religious, whether you wanna talk mystical or not, but you find the right match for yourself that helps you build the courage up, that if you are   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: alone and on your own and you're   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Lau Lapides: isolated and you're not accepted in the family, your friends circle, that there are groups out there that are going to help lift you up as a person, not   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: just as a talent, but as a human being in the world to give you courage. And one more tip I got for you too is, and we will all want to do this, we have to be really guarded about it, like don't overshare. Be careful.   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Lau Lapides: Don't overshare with people   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: that you know are going to tear you down.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: They're going to put up the walls as to why you can't, shouldn't.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: not supposed to do things,   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: don't share too much with those people. Let the sharing go to the people who are like-minded, people who are going   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Lau Lapides: to raise your spirit,   Anne Ganguzza: Absolutely.   Lau Lapides: raise your vibration, and get you excited about it versus   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Lau Lapides: the people who are going to give you every reason in the book why not to do it.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, yeah, exactly, and why you can't and why you won't succeed. Absolutely.   Lau Lapides: Yeah. Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: So, yeah, absolutely. What's the wonderful advice law?   Lau Lapides: So exciting, right? Like where there's a will, there's a way, but it's really true, there   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: is. There's   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: always a way to do things that you love to and want to and deserve to do. And just having the knowledge of like, write down your mantras, write down   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: your affirmations every morning, stick them on your fridge or wherever you stick them and say, I deserve this. I need this. I want this. I matter. And just believe it.   Anne Ganguzza: Absolutely.   Lau Lapides: And then you'll get it if you believe it.   Anne Ganguzza: And guys, I'm going to say, like, this just transcends even just voiceover industry. This is for anything that you want to do,   Lau Lapides: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: right? As entrepreneurs, as bosses, I mean, whether it's voiceover or something else that is aligned with voiceover or acting or whatever it may be, I truly believe that you can... you can get the support where there's a will, there's a way. And I love that you brought up the spiritual aspect of it too, because it is so personal, right? It does affect us being an entrepreneur, and not just a voiceover actor, not just an actor, but being an entrepreneur and running your own business and having a dream and pursuing that dream. It is something so personal to us that, you know, it- It transcends just voiceover groups or voiceover, you know, accountability groups or Facebook groups. It really, you just need to have the people that can help lift you up no matter where.   Lau Lapides: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: No matter where you get that. And, you know, spiritually is amazing, is an amazing source   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: of being able to have a group of people that can lift you up and support you when you need.   Lau Lapides: Yeah, and give yourself that little bit of extra self-care   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: that you may need, that you may   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: be missing in your life, whether it's a massage treatment or   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: an extra whatever, so that you've got that extra bit of health, of mindset, of balance that you need to get stronger and find the right people to get on your side. And you'll absolutely do it. People have come from really, really challenging backgrounds   Anne Ganguzza: Oh yeah.   Lau Lapides: with nothing and have become everything.   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: So it really is mind over matter for sure.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, yeah. What a great discussion, Law.   Lau Lapides: Beautiful.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah,   Lau Lapides: I loved   Anne Ganguzza: we have   Lau Lapides: it.   Anne Ganguzza: the faith in you, bosses. We definitely,   Lau Lapides: We do.   Anne Ganguzza: we have faith in you. And again, VOBoss, we're here for you guys. And, you know, go out there and believe in yourself. Find people that will help support and lift you up. And yeah, I love it. I love it. And   Lau Lapides: You can do it.   Anne Ganguzza: guys, as individuals, it may seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group, We can certainly contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought possible. Visit 100VoicesWhoCare.org to learn how. Also a big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can network and connect like bosses using amazing technology. Find out more at IPDTL.com. You guys have a great week and we'll see you next week. Bye.   Lau Lapides: See you next week.

Being a boss isn't just about calling the shots, it's a delicate balancing act that requires continuous learning, effective people management, and navigating the complexities of business growth. Anne & Lau unpack the multifaceted nature of being a BOSS - the responsibilities, the challenges, the triumphs, and everything in between. Listen in as they share their personal experiences and insights on managing people, mastering outsourcing, and balancing the dynamics of a growing business. You'll learn the significance of industry education, the art of hiring the right people, and the need for continuous learning and adaptability. Plus, they delve into the essential elements of establishing strong relationships with clients and colleagues. This is a conversation you won't want to miss, so tune in and let's learn how to truly embrace being a BOSS…   Transcript   It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with the one and only, most beautiful, lovely Lau Lapides.    Lau: Oh, thank you. Miss Anne. Love you right back. Yay.    Anne: Ohh. You know, Lau. I had such a week. Oh my gosh. It is so tough to be a BOSS. I'm just saying.    Lau: Ugh. It is. It is. You have to give that a little accent, because that was such a week. Was it a week? It was a week. It was a week. It was a week, a week from Weekland.    Anne: I Had such a week.    Lau: Such a week.    Anne: Trying to, being a BOSS.   Lau: Oy, tell me about your week. Tell me about it.    Anne: The VO BOSS. Okay, so that was my poor rendition of (laughs) VO BOSS. So being a VO BOSS, you know what? There's so many different types of BOSSes. So I thought it would be a good thing to talk about today, all the different hats that we wear being BOSSes and all the, as you mentioned before, the plates that need to be kept spinning in the air. And those of you who are maybe just getting into this, or if you're into this, realize that you're not alone. We're all spinning plates, and it's one big, crazy, wonderful world of being a BOSS. All these things that I never anticipated having to do when I initially thought, oh, I'm gonna go into voiceover.    Lau: Oh, totally. You know? Oh, you don't know anything. I mean, that's the beauty of it, is like if you knew everything, you wouldn't go into it. So it's better.    Anne: Probably.    Lau: Ignorance is bliss, right? In a way.    Anne: Probably.    Lau: But do you ever literally have vertigo? Like sometimes I literally, at night, I'll sit down, and the room is spinning, and I'm like, why is the room spinning? It's like so many things are entering --   Anne: Could’ve been those drinks you had, Lau. I'm just kidding. (laughs).    Lau: It could be like, listen, I should drink --   Anne: Vodka, you. No (laughs).    Lau: I should drink. I would be able to see straight. But it's just like so many layers of stuff happening in your mind that literally you get dizzy from it. I get dizzy from it.    Anne: It's funny because I said to -- as I was having a meeting with my assistants the other day -- I said, God, it's hard to be a BOSS. Like, I thought, oh, it's gonna be wonderful going into business for myself, and, and it is. Trust me, I would have it no other way. I've decided that I could never, ever work for someone again outside of an a guest position, like a guest director, that kind of thing. But I just can't work for someone again. But being a BOSS, there's so many responsibilities that you have to take on that you may have never even thought of. And they're scary. Right? Because did I have any experience setting up an S-corp? Did I have any experience hiring employees or firing employees? Things that you just didn't -- in the beginning, did I have any experience negotiating outside of being in the store with my — by the way, my father, my father, every place he went, he tried to bargain. He tried to bargain the deal. He would go into Sears. Okay, Sears is not around much anymore, but I think Sears is  online.    Lau: (laughs). I love Sears.    Anne: But he would go into Sears, like just the retail store, and he'd just, anything he bought, he'd try to, he tried to bargain them down. I mean, it was hysterical. It used to drive my mother crazy, but all the negotiation, I had no idea. Right? No idea how to negotiate, no idea how to set up accounting for my business.    Lau: Yeah. They're hardcore skill sets that we're not, I mean, to be perfectly honest with you, if you're in undergrad, if you're in graduate school, if you go to a conservatory, if you're going to a training studio, they all kind of fall under a similar umbrella in that they're not offering a lot of business training. And so you're really kind of thrown out as a actor in the world thrown out to figure out, how do I do this? Whether I'm a working talent or whether I own a company, how do I figure out all the components that have to make that company really successful? And the truth is, a lot of us end up taking years and years piecing it together, like our own apprentice, and getting people to train with and train under, to figure out what I need to not just survive, but also thrive in the business and get to the level at which we're getting to.    Anne: Absolutely. And even if you outsource, right? Let's just say you're a creative. I know a lot of creatives that come into it. They're like, okay, so this is great, I got my demo, (laughs). Then they're like, why am I not getting any work? Well, because you need to proceed on with the business, right? We need to do marketing, we need to do outreach. We need to reach out to potential clients and get the work. And then once we get the work, we have to figure out how to negotiate a fair price. Or if we're working with an agent, we have to get that agent. How are we going to bill them? And then once we bill them, how are we gonna make sure that they pay us? And then when they pay us, we gonna make sure we're taking out enough taxes for the end of the year, right, so that we can pay our taxes at the end of the year?    So, so many different pieces and components. And I think for me, as a voice talent first starting out, before I really branched off and started coaching and started VO Peeps and VO bus, I had to survive and get through all of that, which I believe most everybody has to kind of experience on their own. Even if you outsource for things, right, for editing, for accounting, you have to understand the business in order to know how to manage the people that you are hiring to help you with the business. Right? Because otherwise, you're kind of just sitting there in the dark and people could take advantage of you, or you're just not gonna understand how your business works or the things that need to get done. So I think first and foremost, being a BOSS requires education, education, education. Oh my gosh, from the start.   Lau: Yes. You have said the magic words, and you have to give yourself enough expertise to understand how to find experts, if that makes any sense. And I, I oftentimes would get frustrated saying, but wait, do I have to be a graphic designer in order to design for a designer for my website? And to some degree, yes, you do. To some degree, yes, you do. You can't run on an assumption that if I have enough money to invest, and I hire this person or this team, that they actually know what they're doing. You cannot assume that, do not assume it. And I will say, not to be a negative Nelly, but just to be a realist in the moment, most of the time they don't.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: And so it doesn't mean to be overly critical, it just means to have the education behind you to say, well, I sat in on some courses, I took some seminars.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: I did some homework in the industry, and I have a sense of what a marketing person does. I have an idea of what a designer would do for a website. I have these ideas that I can be a partner, not a subordinate in my own business, but a partner in crime to really make that vision happen. Don't sit back and be passive and say, well, I'm hiring an accountant, and they should know you'll do it.    Anne: Exactly.    Lau: You have to know what an expense is. You have to know what a write-off is. You have to know, as you said, how to save for your quarterly taxes. Otherwise, you're gonna get stuck at the end saying, wow, I'm the loser in this because I didn't do the homework in understanding what my due diligence is in this process, I just completely put it in the whole basket of that professional who, sometimes they're great, but they still are not gonna know everything and about our industry.    Anne: Oh my gosh, yes. And honestly, I will say that for myself, being the tech girl that I am, being, the fact that years ago I taught, let's just, here's an example, marketing, ads, Google Ads, Facebook ads, LinkedIn ads, they've changed. Right? And so when I recently -- well, not recently, it was about a year ago or two years ago, I went to go hire someone to do Google Ads for me. Oh my goodness. So I didn't have a concept of what Google Ads needed at the time. Right? So how was I able to hire a qualified person to create ads for me, manage ads for me, and run them for me, and then charge me. Right? And I will say, I am the first person to say that I did not educate myself enough. I found someone who, sworn up and down, good references, good resource, that was supposed to be a wonderful person that could handle my Google Ads for me. And they did not work out at all for me. I got no return on my investment, and I lost money.    And so that alone, right, that risk that you're taking when you're hiring somebody or outsourcing somebody to help you run your business, that first of all takes courage. And that's a scary thing. And so educating yourself about what you need and the general outline -- like, if I need an accountant, what is that accountant gonna have to do for me? They're gonna have to balance my monthly checkbook. They're gonna have to import data from my banking accounts. We're gonna have to categorize that.    So understand that you need to do these things, and then you're gonna have to manage the person that's working for you. And remember, and this is probably one of the toughest things I have, multiple assistants. Assistants are human, right? Human people have bad days. Right? And if there's a bad day, or more than a bad day, or it turns out to be something where it's not helping you in your business, you're going to have to address that. And that's not necessarily a technical thing that you have to know or learn about, but that is people management. And oh my goodness, Lau. I don't know. Can you take a class on people management (laughs)?    Lau: Well, you know, they have whole degrees on management. They certainly have whole graduate degrees. But I'm here to tell you, and not to say that those are not worth taking part in, they could be.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: But I'm here to tell you, I am from the school of Old Knocks, and the School of Living Life from --   Anne: Hard knocks.   Lau: Hard knocks. And nothing you learn in school, number one, in a year or two will be obsolete, a lot of it. But number two can match what happens, the class, versus the real life. Nothing can match the nuances and complexities and sophistication and complication of dealing with people every day. And anyone who's in any kind of business will agree with that one. It is amazing, the skillsets that you need to accrue.    Anne: Oh goodness, yes.   Lau: The more diversity, the more skillsets, (laughs).    Anne: And you know, we always encourage outsourcing, right? To be a BOSS, go ahead. Outsource those things that don't bring you joy. Outsource those things that allow you to market yourself more. If you love being in the booth and you want more jobs in the booth, hire someone to help you market. But make sure that you know enough about that marketing and enough about managing that person so that they can truly help you grow. And so that when you do get more work, right, you're gonna be able to complete that as intended.    And if it doesn't work out, I think one of the hardest things for me has been firing somebody. That's a tough thing. That might be the toughest thing I've had to do, is fire people. And that is, whew. I'll tell you, that mentally is draining.(laughs). You know, not so much like if somebody's not performing as you feel, I think letting them go. And then I think the decent thing to do is to connect up with them and talk to them as you're letting them go. I don't wanna just ghost people or do it via a text or an email. Dealing with that is very, very tough.    So BOSSes, if you are outsourcing, make sure you know enough about the topic or whatever it is that you're outsourcing so that you can manage the person. And if that person doesn't work out, make sure that you have the courage and you will develop people skills probably. It doesn't make it easier, I don't think. I always hate letting somebody go. It's not a pleasant thing to do.   Lau: No, it's a hard one. It's a really hard one, especially if you're a people pleaser and you love to get along with people. It's a very difficult one. And another one is, and this is old school management versus a lot of new school theory, in that management does not mean everything is hands off and laissez-faire where you can walk away and take lunch all day and everyone will do everything for you. It is always, in my mind, a hands on skillset and craft that you need to be unafraid and assertive about your team being on top of what's going on, having them know that you know what's going on, the psychology that is important. But walking a fine line between over controlling and being --   Anne: Yeah. Micromanaging.   Lau: — called founder syndrome, that's the founder of the company not willing to budge and let go of old ways and old philosophies. How we balance that as managers of saying, well, yes, I started, I've grown. I have a philosophy and a model in this direction, but I wanna learn, I wanna pivot, I wanna grow. And knowing the difference -- here's one of the best ones I can give to your, to the audience. One of the best ones is know the difference between the people that are static — in other words, they were great at a certain timeframe — and others that are your growth people. They're the people that are gonna help you grow to the next place. Not everyone is that. And when we have an unrealistic expectation and get upset that this person is not moving with us, they're not shaping us, they're not shape shifting, they're not leading us, well, they're not meant to. They're not great at that. That's not why they're there. This other person you're bringing in, because they're great at that. That's what they do. They're there to take you to the next level. And know the difference between the two.    Anne: Absolutely. Yeah. There's a give and a take. Right? I mean, just because you are the boss doesn't mean that you are the be all, all knowing. And so I, I really find that there's such a delicate balance between happy people, happy employees, business grows. I really believe in keeping employees happy. And to do that, you have to pay them fairly. That's number one. And again, that's another mind twist for BOSSes who are starting out thinking, well, gosh, I don't have the money. A lot of what I hear on a daily basis is, I don't have the finances. I don't have the finances to invest. But yet still, if you don't have the finances to invest, I don't believe in your growth, in your company's growth, you're not gonna grow. And what are we here for? I mean, (laughs). I just feel like there's got to be a reason that you want to grow in your career and grow your business.    And so there has to be that mental education that you have for yourself that allows you to make that investment, but also trust in the people. Like hire people that can help you grow. I love the static and the growth people, and also, a back and forth listening to those people, because I don't know everything. Right? I hire people that make me look better. Right? Hire people that make you look good, and you can help them look good as well. I think it's a give and a take. And I think it's always like, if you hire people who are even better than you, I think that's really something to aspire to. I wanna hire somebody, obviously I wanna hire somebody that's better at me in accounting, because that's why I need accounting help. Right? I want somebody who's the expert, who's the best in that. And I wanna encourage them to want to work for me or work with me to help grow my company. So how am I incentivizing?    Lau: And you know, just realize that as you manage people, people, whether they're a contractor and they're coming and going, doing a one-off job for you, or if they're an employee and they're there on a consistent basis, I always run by the philosophy of, I wanna build them up. I wanna grow them and spring them up. Versus rip them down and tear them down. And I'll tell you, I oftentimes say this from some folks that I have worked with in the past, and I think to myself, quietly I think, if they had money and they had power, they would be super dangerous. Because they don't know how to manage people, and they would become tyrannical. And it's very easy to slide into a zone where I'm powerful, I'm omnipotent, I have money, I'm successful, I'm this, I'm that. Now the ego can't get through the door. The ego is larger than life. No one can tell me I'm wrong. No one can show me anything else.    Anne: Right.    Lau: A lot of dictators, we see this in the acting world, especially in academia, a lot of theater professors and people who are tenured, who can't be touched over years and years and years can become very, very tyrannical in nature and just rip to shreds those actors. And so I always had a concerted effort in the front of my mind, not that I have a nature for that, but don't ever go down that path. Always stay humble, stay kind, stay open to education, and just know that I don't know everything. There's so much you don't know. You're always learning --    Anne: Absolutely.    Lau: — learning and learning. But keep your awareness up. If someone is trying to take advantage of you or someone is treating you a certain way that's uncomfortable or inappropriate, put your foot down. Be articulate. Let them know that. Like, don't let them walk all over you. And so it's a very fine line to stay right in the middle, right in that diplomatic middle place.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Where you're strong and you have an anchor and you have a state of mind, but you are open, you're kind, you're pivoting and you're learning and just sort of moving back and forth.    Anne: I think some of the most powerful people in business, and of course I've had, outside of the VO industry, I've had experiences obviously before I came into the voiceover industry. But I also try to make a point to really get outside my bubble and experience -- especially with my clients, right? I want to go into their world. I think some of the smartest and most powerful people that I have met have been ones who don't act like they know it all and actively say, I don't know it all. Or I wish I could answer that right now. What I think is this. And I truly believe those are the people that I'm like, wow. Like, wow. You just don't see that. I have such respect. He's a BOSS. Or she's a BOSS. And really, I feel that that has to be part of the mindset that, BOSSes out there, we need to stay humble, stay open to education, and educating yourself at all times. Like we are lifelong learners.    It's not easy. Right? I mean, I, gosh, I wish a lot of times you might look into the industry and people just make it look so easy. They're just getting all the jobs. They're just powerhouses in the industry. But I guarantee if you sit down with every one of them, they can tell you their story. And their story has not been all roses. I mean, it's not easy being a good BOSS. It, it just isn't. There's a lot of trials, tribulations, failures, missteps. I think if you really look at it in a positive light, you always learn from your mistakes. I mean, I don't mind making mistakes. I mean, I don't wanna make big costly mistakes. I try to avoid those. But it happens. I mean, like I said, I made a bad investment in trying to hire someone that was gonna do some ads for me. And it wasn't just that, I mean, it's been multiple, multiple things that have happened that I'm like, well, okay, I've learned now. Now I know. I don't want that. Or now I learned and I know better.    Lau: That's what I call learning money. (laughs).    Anne: Yeah. Learning money.    Lau: Learning money. But you don't wanna keep learning that lesson over and over and over again.    Anne: Exactly.    Lau: Just learn it and then move on and say, hey, I learned that. And I'll never forget that. Yeah. Because that was not the right move for us, but that's okay. That's all right. It happens.    Anne: I try telling people all the time, it's such a thing on the forums in, you know, Facebook groups, oh, I got a demo, and oh, I shouldn't have gotten that demo. And then people come, they'll come to me and they'll say, can you listen to my demo? And I shouldn't have gotten it. And oh God, it was a mistake and it was bad. But honestly, I just tell people like, you cannot beat yourself up over something. It's a learning mistake. Right? I mean, everybody starts somewhere. Right?    Lau: Yeah, I was just thinking of that.   Anne: And so, if you beat yourself up about, yes, it could have been a costly investment, but think of it as a learning investment. And now you know exactly what not to do. And so I always try to make people not feel bad about what they consider to be mistakes. because it, they bring with them all sorts of luggage, which it doesn't always serve them well in trying to build their businesses. Right? When you've got that luggage and that baggage and that bitterness. I mean, just move on, learn, move on. And yeah, it was a costly mistake. And it happens. It just does. And it happens to the best of us, guys. It does. It happens to BOSSes that have been doing this for years, like myself and Lau, I'm sure.    Lau: Oh my goodness. Every year, every year you're learning and you're growing, and you're doing things that are amazing and you're doing other things that you look back and you say, why did I do that? Or I don't think I'm gonna do that again.    Anne: Well, that didn't work, (laughs).    Lau: What was I thinking? You know? Wasn't time well spent. But you know what? I think the older and wiser you get, the more you realize I need to be able to take something away from every single experience that I'm doing. Because that's really the learning curve. Sometimes your biggest mistakes are your biggest learning curves. And sometimes you meet people within that mistake that become immense, immense partners in action for you and your lifetime. So always look for the silver lining of that cloud. Don't walk away and beat yourself up and waste energy and waste time and whatever. Say, listen, I got opportunity costs, I got learning money, (laughs) that I'm spending.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely.    Lau: But you know, I had a thought in my head, and this was like from 20 minutes ago, but I just wanted to say that some of the simplest things that can be blown out of proportion, if not done well, and doing the due diligence to do them well is so important. Like even budgeting, like even budgeting, understanding the difference between like what a fixed cost is versus what your variable costs are. if you don't know that from the beginning and you don't work on that, my goodness, the money is gonna go right through your hands like water. You won't even know what happened to it. You won't know how you spent it. You won't know how you got it. You won't know what to do with it. So your relationship to money is a very powerful and intimate and trusting relationship that you have to really respect and pay attention to, because it symbolizes so many important things for you in your life and in your business. So you have to really do that and not put it off for some day, someday. Do it early. Get yourself in really important patterns.    Anne: I think ultimately we create businesses to have a business and create a profit. Right? We wanna be able to create a profit so that we can I mean, ultimately, if this is your full-time gig, right? I wanna be able to pay the mortgage, and so with my business, I need to make a profit. And so, yes, relationship with money is huge. And I think we had a podcast episode on it not so long ago, or we've spoken about it before. Your relationship with money is critical. It's imperative that you address it and that you face it. Because you have to know at what point, are you making a profit? Are you not making a profit? What are you putting your money into?  And that's not to say that you shouldn't put your money into things, right? And that you should be clenching your fists and not wanting to invest in yourself or in your business, but knowing where that money is going. And then are you making a profit? Or at what point are you making a profit?    Now, profit can mean something other than monetary profit, especially when we're talking about just getting into the business. The first couple of years I was in the business, I expected to take a loss. And of course I reported a loss on my taxes, right? Because you're investing money, or investing money in your training and your equipment, in your demos, you're spending money on, at least I was spending money on pay-to-plays and auditioning and trying to build up that business, build up that clientele. And so as a business entity, I lost money the first couple of years. And of course, ultimately that shouldn't be your goal forever. But I mean, that's very typical I think for any small business just starting out, you're gonna invest more than you're gonna get back.    And so for those people, I love it, I always ask my new students to set goals. Some of the goals are like, I want a national spot in six months, or I wanna be able to make, you know, $100,000 this year, or whatever that is. And I like the fact that there's goals, but I want, I want your goals as BOSSes to also, if you educate yourself enough to figure out what are realistic goals for you in your business, and how much are you going to have to invest, and how much could you realistically get? I mean, of course there's always monetary goals, that I'd like to hit that six figure number this year. I think those are great. But I also think that you have to have the relationship with your money, first and foremost, to know where that money is going, in and out in profit and not profit, to really help you get an idea as to how to continue or to move forward and progress.    Lau: Have a real action plan in place, right, Anne? I mean, don't just fly by the city of your pants. It's okay to have those impulsive moves at times and have the improv spirit, but you have to have a plan of action in place. I would like to see you have it in place every quarter and readjust it, readjust it, readjust it, reinvent it, reenvision it. It should not stay the same year after year, quarter after quarter. You should have new ideas, new ideas. And it's okay if your business is capped. You don't have to go through the ceiling. Not everyone has to go through the ceiling. Some people say, I wanna grow to this level. I'm happy with this level.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely.    Lau: I know if I get above it, it's gonna be too stressful for me. Or I don't have enough of --    Anne: There's gonna be more work involved. Exactly.    Lau: — to help with that. And just know that, like go after your big dream, but be realistic about that big dream. I also wanted to say too, be careful of scams. It is a massive scam market now out there, just in the larger world, in the larger sphere. So as you're spending your money and investing in services and delegating and hiring people and growing your team, do your reference checks, do your research. Ask folks in the industry, do you know this one? Do you know this one? Do you know this one? Because you don't wanna make a mistake where you give a bunch of money to a scam outfit. That happens all the time. Every moment of the day, that's happening. And they're getting very crafty about looking like a real company.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely.    Lau: So just buyer, beware, consumer, beware. Do the due diligence. And I guarantee you two or three people in the industry that you work with and trust are gonna know whether they are legitimate and real or not.    Anne: Yeah. Yeah. BOSSes, educate. I think it all starts with education, all starts with education. And I mean, hopefully our discussion on being a BOSS and things that we've had to encounter ourselves has helped you to know that you're not alone if you're experiencing difficulty or you have questions or you don't know the answers, because a lot of times we don't either. And so that's why we have support groups out there. We have mentors, we have coaches that we trust and believe in. And the BOSSes, we're always here for you if you need us. And so always great conversation, Lau.   Lau: Great conversation. You know what I love the most about being a BOSS? I love developing relationships. Relationships that sometimes can last a whole lifetime. And that to me is one of the biggest payoffs of running a business, is getting to have amazing clients, amazing talent, and amazing colleagues and friends like you, Anne that just make my life happy.    Anne: And cohosts like you, Lau.    Lau:  Yay!   Anne: There you go.    Lau: Yay.    Anne: I love it. Love you, guys.    Lau: Love that. Love it.    Anne: Fantastic. Okay guys. So as individuals, I want to let you know that it can seem difficult not only to be a BOSS, but to make a huge impact. But as a group, we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought before possible. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. And big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like BOSSes like Lau and myself. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye!    Lau: Next time!   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

In this episode, Anne & Lau delve into the energizing power of generosity + how integrating it into your personal and professional life can be incredibly rewarding. They explore various ways to incorporate acts of kindness into your daily routine, emphasizing that giving doesn't always have to be monetary – it could be a service, a skill, or even just a few minutes of your time each day. They also discuss the importance of giving without seeking recognition, and how simple gestures can strengthen connections and relationships. Listen in as they share their own experiences, provide insights on how businesses can contribute to organizations like 100 Voices Who Care, and inspire you to unleash the transformative impact of giving in your life and the lives of those around you.   Transcript   It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Super Power series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with ah, the one and only Lau Lapides.  Lau: Hey, Anne. Happy Saturday.  Anne: Happy Saturday, Lau. How you feeling this Saturday?  Lau: Awesome. As always. Excited to be here with you.  Anne: Me too. Me too. And you know why? I was gonna tell you before I asked you -- Lau: I have a feeling. Anne: -- do you know why?  Lau: I know what's coming up. I think you're gonna talk about giving today, giving, giving. Anne: I am. I wanna talk about giving. Yes. And I've mentioned this before, purpose beyond profit for your businesses. So, I mean, it's awesome to be BOSSes, right? It's awesome to be a business superpower and to be a BOSS. And I think a big part of being a BOSS is also understanding the power and the power and the grace of giving back. And I think that there are a lot of people who, if they had the opportunity, would really get a lot out of giving back.  I mean, anybody who's given to a charitable organization knows how good that can feel. And I truly believe that today people want to align themselves with businesses who are about more than just profit. You know? That they stand for something, they believe in something, they do good, they give back. I just think it's a good thing to do in your business. And I know it's hard if we're just starting out, trying to get our careers going. And I know there's a lot of people who are like, well, I don't know if I have the money to be able to donate at this time, but I'm going to ask you guys to think about your purpose. Think about the positive outcomes that can come from giving back. Lau, what are your thoughts about? Lau: I am so into that, and I have to say, this isn't an elitist sort of thought process of, oh, I've made it to this amount of money. I'm grossing in my business, then I can give, or this or that. It really is not contingent upon how much you're taking in or how much you're making. Really, I think the truth is, as a business owner and as a human being, a citizen of the earth, I like to say, you should always take a very small percentage of anything that you're bringing in and give it away to the charity of your choice. And I always say to people who haven't done it yet, who don't know what it is, and it's a little scary to do that, just start really small.  Like if you're going through a coffee line, like let's say you're going through the drive-through, pay it forward once a month and just pay for the car behind you, and see what that feels like. What does that do for you for that day? For me, it's very energizing, very inspiring, and very anonymous, which I also like too. It's really coming from the heart, not for recognition. Anne: I actually love that you said that. And there's a couple of different ways when you're giving, and I love the anonymous because I feel like when you're anonymously donating, you're really giving for the reasons coming from your heart. Now, of course, there are a lot of businesses who support different charities or support different organizations, and it becomes a public part of who they are as a business. And I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with that, especially if it's to the point of they're able to contribute, and it's not a thing where it's front and center, where it becomes like, this is who we are and this is what we're doing for so and so. But it becomes just a side part of what they do on a daily basis.  And I love that you said start small because it doesn't have to be big. As a matter of fact, Lau, our sponsor 100 Voices Who Care has a really cool idea on how you can give and really make an impact. And basically it's a community effort where you can donate $100 a quarter. So that means $100 a quarter, four times a year, $400 total for the year. And essentially, if you can get 100 people together in that organization, they'll be 100 people, that can be a total of $10,000 a year -- Lau: Ooh, that's a lot  Anne: — that can be given away. And so actually that's a large amount. So for you, making your $100 contribution four times a year, and then doing that just minimally, together with however many members that are contributing, can actually make a real difference. And then essentially these members get together, and they do their pitch for their favorite charity, and they say, well, I really like to give to this charity because I feel strongly about how they're helping animals, or they're helping needy people in other countries, or they're -- whatever they might be doing. And you'll be within this group making your pitch. And at the end, everybody votes on what charity that will ultimately win that money. And then what's so great about it is that, even if it doesn't go to the charity of your choice, it's going to a charity.  Lau: Exactly. It's giving back to the world, to the people, the animals, the children, the environment, whatever your causes are, it's going in all of those directions. So in essence, you are personally involved with the giving to all of those different worlds. And to me, I'm about to actually join that organization, 100 Voices Who Care, and I'm very excited about that. Because I'll tell you, I'll be perfectly honest, I've been trying to find organizations to work with, and it's so hard to give money. It sounds ridiculous. But it's hard to get people to call you back. It's hard to find point people. It's hard to find anyone who has information about the organization. And I was very relieved to see this particular outfit at our conference recently that we attended. And I was like, wow, this answered all of my prayers as a business and also as a human being. Like, you're gonna take care of a lot of this for me, but I also have a voice and I can pitch an organization that I'm interested in giving a voice to.  Anne: It's wonderful. Lau: That's exciting.  Anne: And who's leading the organization, who was there at the conference, if you guys were there and didn't get a chance to stop by and see her, is Claire Dinsdale, who is a voice actor herself, and who is fronting that organization to help be able to give to charities. And it's just wonderful because it's something where I wanna feel like I can make a big impact, but I don't necessarily have a lot of money to give. But together we can really make a huge impact. And I think one of the things I thought long ago was the fact that if I was able to have an organization, let's say like my VO Peeps and my VO BOSSes, that now that I've formed this organization, there is this segment of it that I do want to be able to give back if I'm able to give back.  And so it's one of the reasons I formed the VO Peeps Scholarship Fund and have been giving scholarships away for, gosh, close to 11 years. And again, it really is a matter of the community because I accept donations from the community as well as in-kind gifts. So it doesn't always have to be money either. It can be your time, it can be coaching time, it can be equipment, it can be all sorts of different things that you can donate that can really mean something to a person's career. And so that became a very integral part of the VO Peeps business model. And so I really encourage all of you BOSSes out there that if it is possible to either join an organization and get that feeling of being able to contribute to that organization, to give back, I truly believe it makes the world go round. Right? I mean… Lau: It's huge.  Anne: Even if you're giving anonymously, I think it's just, everything comes back. I believe in good karma. I truly believe that it helps in the growth and positive reinforcement of the world and our humanness to each other.  Lau: Hmm. So true. I mean, the karma of that, if you believe in karma, if you believe in that boomerang energy that what you put out into the world will come back to you — I mean, we wouldn't do it for that reason. But I do deeply believe in that. I absolutely believe in that. And I did wanna just give a super quicky anecdote, Anne, about a moment in time that's running through my head right now, where my daughter — and I hope she's not listening because she likes to be anonymous in everything she does — my daughter, about a year ago or two years ago, young kid, she was a young kid, teenager, she saw that one of the customers that came into a store she was working at desperately needed a walker and did not have the funds to get a walker, and was really, really struggling. And on her birthday, I -- this kind of blew me away — on her birthday, on my daughter's birthday, she decided to take the money that we gave her on her birthday and buy her a walker, which was a very expensive walker in the store.  Anne: Yeah. Wow.    Lau: And give it to her. And her and my son delivered it to their door. And I said, that's amazing. Are you sure you wanna do that? They didn't have any money saved, and that was good money for her to do something with. She said, yeah, I can't think of anything I really want or need, but this woman Sarah, needs to walk. And I would feel better giving it to her. Anne, she did that. Long story short, I was amazed. I'm trying not, not to get verklempt about it.    Anne: What a wonderful story.  Lau: I drive up the street now, Anne, and I see this woman, she lives in the area, crossing the street with the walker. And every time I see her, I just quietly, she doesn't know me, she doesn't know I'm the the mother.      Anne: Yeah. Yeah.      Lau: I think my daughter gave her that.    Anne: Yeah. Yeah.      Lau: And it's not about the walker, it's about freedom. And so I always think it's not about the money. If you give a dollar, if you give a million dollars, it's kind of the same, because symbolically what it's really giving to a person, confidence --     Anne: Sure.      Lau: — energy, freedom, all sorts of things that you have to think of it in that way. Don't whittle it down to just monetary. It could be service you do, right?      Anne: Absolutely.     Lau: It could be absolutely something you own that's precious to you that you give to someone else. It could be anything. Right?     Anne: Yeah. I love that story. That's such a beautiful story.      Lau: Amazing story, right?      Anne: Yeah.      Lau: It's amazing. And that taught me a lesson.      Anne: Yeah. And there's so much to be said for when you see someone in need, just being able to help them out, what it can do for you internally, mentally. And I think that of course, as we, again, we say over and over and over again, as we run our businesses, I mean, we are all human, and our businesses are very personal. It's a very personal and proud of our brand. So whatever we do outside of our job, right, outside of our business, affects our business in a lot of ways indirectly. And so I think being able to feel good about what you're doing and feeling good — and again, we're always talking about in our business, let's charge what we're worth. And I still believe in that. But I also believe that if you can help another talent out, or if you can help someone else out around you, then that is just going to contribute to the overall good of your business and of you personally.      Lau: And I do think some of the best times to give, Anne, are not in dire times. I think we always connote that, oh, if someone's starving or they're in war, whatever, of course they need help in assistance. And of course we should assist them. But it's not the only time. Maybe there's a zoo or an animal farm that needs maintenance, constant daily maintenance to feed the animals, clean the animals, keep them, whatever. Or maybe there's the trees in the forest that need-- you know, we are big in terms of Israeli trees being planted every year.      Anne: Sure.    Lau: And we give money to plant new trees every year. so that we can grow that new forest. So thinking about what am I doing to maintain, what am I doing to provide a future for populations or for the environment? It's not absolutely only in dire, dire circumstances. Sometimes it's in good circumstances in order to keep it maintained and keep it healthy.    Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that really it is, it's something that I would say, if you haven't already put it into your business plan or into your daily life, really take some time to consider what can I do? What can I do to help give back? And again, as Lau mentions, it doesn't have to be monetary. I mean, it could be your time, it could be some other service that you can provide. If you don't have the money to donate, it could be your service. And that could mean just as much, if not even more. I mean, be a tutor for a child that might need help reading or there's just so many, so many things that we can do.    I have to say, take a part of your workday. I wouldn't feel bad. You know what I mean? If we're busy and we're like, okay, we're focused on our work -- I think you should set aside a part of your workday to consider what am I gonna do to help give back? Maybe even it's something as simple as contributing to, I'm gonna say a Facebook forum in a positive way where you might be helping other talent. Gosh, I know, Lau, this has been going back and forth about people who ask questions in the forums. And some people get really angry about having to answer the same question multiple times. They're trying to pick my brain. And yes, I get that whole thing. But I do believe that as a good service towards people coming into the industry, you can give a little bit and give some helpful advice without sacrificing, giving away the farm. I mean, gosh, the VO BOSS podcast over and over I've said, it was something that I wanted to do to give back to the community, to just have a resource that people could go to.    Lau: Exactly. Right.    Anne: And so, a lot of my stuff that I do, I have that whole series on teachable moments that I put on YouTube. 'cause I love teaching, I love sharing. And yes, I will be the first person to say that. Yes. Some people, when they come to me for coaching, they say, well, I saw you on your videos, or I listened to your VO BOSS podcast. Gosh, Lau. I'm sure people talk to you about that too. I am so grateful for the people that come to me that say, I listen to your podcast religiously, or thank you for what you're doing. And yes, I wanna work together. So that's the bonus.    Lau: I'm blown away. Bonus, bonus, bonus.    Anne: That's just a bonus. Yeah. It wasn't the original intent. And I think that that is obvious too. Right?    Lau: I'm blown away by that. Yeah. We get comments all the time about this wonderful podcast and it's like, woo! I feel like superheroes, we're spending our time together on a Saturday and doing our thing. But then when you hear and you see how it lands, how it affects people, how it has the potential to change someone's life — well, in essence, I mean, that's giving too. You're not giving physical money, but you're giving time. Time is energy. Time is value. Time is money. Right?    And I do wanna mention too, another thing I tend to do, which is hard, I'm not gonna say it's easy. I take as many surveys as I can. And that's the thing that everyone hates and doesn't wanna do. And they get the survey from every hotel and every whatever. And I literally sit there and I think, okay, I have to do this for them. I have to do this. And then if it goes too many windows, too many pages, I can lose my patience. But if it can be done in five minutes, I will do it for them. Because I say, I know they need that feedback, and I'm the person to give it to them in a really constructive way. And that's giving of yourself too.    Anne: And you know what? That's so funny cause you just reminded me because of VO Atlanta -- I'm just gonna say VO Atlanta is one example where the staff, I'm going to say the staff just ran their tushes off and bent over backwards trying to help me. And Lau, if you remember, you were a part of that one night when I was starving to death. And so the staff really went above and beyond. And I said to them, give me the email address of your manager. I will write an email saying how wonderful you were for me tonight. Please, I want to do that for you. And I'm --   Lau: I love that. I love that.   Anne: — very much willing to do that because it helps. It does.    Lau: It totally helps. You don't see it. You don't hear it, but you have to believe it's there. It's like if the tree's falling, do you hear it? Is it happening? Yes, it's happening. Yes, it makes impact. And yes, you don't always need the accolades, you just need the knowledge of knowing it's happening. And I noticed you neglected to mention that I had to threaten the whole staff at that Marriott to get you like some turkey sticks or whatever we got you. And that was my charity for that night.    Anne: Yeah, you had to threaten everybody. But the person that came through, the person that came through for me, they bent over backwards.    Lau: They did. They sure did.    Anne: To help me. Yeah. They really did.    Lau: They did.    Anne: To get me that turkey sandwich.    Lau: They went beyond, they went beyond customer service, beyond hotel service. That happened to me one time up in the Berkshires and it was a hotel, I think it was a Marriott. It was great. It was super great. And I needed baby powder one night. You know, maybe they thought I had a baby, which I didn't, but I needed baby powder. And my husband goes to the front desk and it's like 11 at night. Do you happen to have any baby powder? And the woman who has babies, young children who works at the desks said, we don't sell it here, but hold on, let me run to my car. She runs to her car and gets it from her baby in the car. This is a hotel rep.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: And gives it to my husband and said, here, give it to your wife. I know sometimes when you need certain things, it's just good to have them. And I never forgot that.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: I never forgot. That was so above and beyond to me.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Was so personal, so personalized --   Anne: Right.    Lau: — to do something like that, you know, whether it's shoe polish or a toothbrush, or baby powder, whatever it is, it's the humanness of the connection and relationships we have together. Was that an extreme need for me? No, I could've lived without it. But the humanity of the honest connection between people is what builds the good juju in the world. Not always, here, let me give you physical cash. Let me help you and do something to make your life easier and it'll connect us for a moment. To me, that's worth everything. I love that. I love those moments.    Anne: And it makes me think of our clients, right?    Lau: Yeah.    Anne: Sometimes can we extend a little bit to our clients once in a while? Do you know what I mean? Like if they need a favor or you know, gosh, they need a pickup like yesterday and is it three words, and they're ready and willing and able to pay, and you're like, you know what? No, it's okay. Like you're just building that good relationship. As a matter of fact, I'm the type of person, oh gosh, I don't even charge. I mean, unless they have completely new scripts, I don't charge. I embed in my price, I embed a certain amount of pickups to it. And if it's a company that I've worked with for a while and I've got a good relationship with them, I'm happy to extend a freebie here and there in a pinch for them, absolutely. Because honestly, the time it would take me to draw up the invoice and charge them and worry about all that, just, it  wasn't even worth the time. So I do think that also in your businesses, you can extend goodwill towards your clients as well and not be threatened that you're not charging what you're worth.    Lau: We used to call that in the olden days, don't nickel and dime people.    Anne: Yes.    Lau: And that means not just getting the pennies from someone, but also the bother, the energy, the exhaustion, the stress.    Anne: Yes. That's what it is.    Lau: Everything that surrounds that transaction. And you have to know intuitively, is it worth it quickly to do that or not? Is it better to just say, hey, let's not worry about that right now. Let's worry about the bigger picture right now of things, versus --   Anne: Let me get you your job on time. Yeah.     Lau: That’s a huge gift.   Anne: Let me give this job to you on time. And I think -- yeah, absolutely. And I think that it's something that you can consider every once in a while. Especially if you've developed a great relationship with a client. Now, clients that nickel and dime you, well that's a different story.    Lau: That's a different story.    Anne: Yeah. That's a different story. So I think we have to make wise decisions, but I think for the most part, if you know your client, you're gonna know what the right decision is. You're gonna know if they're nickel and diming you, but I truly believe that a little goodwill can really, really go a long way. And that's personally in your business all the way around. And so, yeah. I like how you associate it with the stress that's wrapped around the request or the stress that's wrapped around the transaction. And I think alleviating as much stress as possible, I'll tell you that's my goal lately, Lau (laughs).    Lau: And that's a great goal to have.   Anne: I don't want stress. I don’t want stress in my business.    Lau: No, no one does.    Anne: And I think stress or pain or -- I don't want any of that. I just want joy. I want joy surrounding my job. And sometimes that's tough to do, but I'll tell you what, it's so much easier when you are a BOSS yourself and you're in control of it, because you realize that you have control of those things. You have control over your goodwill towards your clients, your goodwill towards humankind, how you feel on a daily basis and how that translates into your performance, and how it translates into your business. It is absolutely up to you. And it's one of the things that I'm so grateful. I just love the fact that I'm working for myself. And I mentioned this to you just recently, Lau, that I don't wanna go through the stress of if I'm working for someone, why did I work so hard to build my own business? If I wanna experience stress like that? I don't. So anything that causes stress like that, basically I've gotta figure out what I can do to wipe that stress away.    Lau: That's right. And to circle that back with that idea of giving -- and by the way, we have a great term. Most people know that I'm Jewish. We have a great Yiddish term called mitzvah. When you do  a mitzvah, when a boy or girl turns 13, we have a bar or bat mitzvah. it means they are now an adult, and they really need to start thinking about giving, give, give, give, give back. Don't take, take, take, take, give, give, give, give. And that's the whole purpose of a bar or bat mitzvah. So the mitzvah of the giving is to de-stress, to relax, rejuvenate. Give someone the joy, the pleasure, the peace of mind that what they're doing is a life worth living, is goals worth having, and that you're there in their community to support them. I mean, I'd love to see that in the world at large. We'd have a better world if everyone could think in the way in which you are thinking. And as like, to de-stress someone is to give them a huge gift, whether it's a smile. It could be an emoji. It could even be like --   Anne: A compliment.    Lau: A compliment. Like pay attention to someone else for a moment and call attention to something that they're doing really well or something that impresses you or something that delights you. 'Cause a lot of times someone might be thinking it and not articulate it.    Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.    Lau: So kind of motivate yourself to articulate those positives. And when you feel the negatives coming on, and you wanna criticize, and you wanna judge, just stop for a second. Like stop and think and say, do I really need to give that out to this person? Is it really necessary? Yep. Or would it be better to build them up? That's a mitzvah.    Anne: Do I need to put that out? Do I need to put that? I love that. Do I need to put that out into the world?    Lau: That's better than money. Honestly. Sometimes that's better than money to say, I recognize you, you matter. You're someone and you're doing something really awesome today. Thanks for doing that. Ooh. Oh my gosh. No one ever, no one tells me that. You need to tell people that.    Anne: And I say, bring that into the booth. We'll just keep going. Lau, every time you mention something that's great. Now I'm like, (laughs). Okay, so, so can we bring that feeling into the booth? And I'm always talking to my students and I've found, I say it more and more is that copy, you need to serve the copy. You need to serve the person you're speaking to. Your delivery needs to come from the heart. It needs to come from a place of service. It's not about how good you sound doing it. It's a place of service. You're helping someone.    And I think if you can take any script that you're doing, commercial, corporate, medical, whatever that is, and you have that place of service, that place of heart where what you are saying is going to benefit and help someone in the end, I really believe that that can be a major impact on your performance. And a good one, a good one at that. Because I believe that the connection that is formed when it comes from that place, right, that place in you really makes a difference in the read. It makes difference on the people listening to it as well.   Lau: I just know personally for myself, when I'm able to give something whatever form it's in, I feel so good. Like right now, I just got a little hot in my like skin and I thought, ooh, am I having a hot flash? No, it's, I'm thinking with about all the ways in which we give, and I'm literally sweating right now because it's so fun to me, it's so exciting because it's not just about giving, it's about seeing how it ripples into the world and into their universe and ultimately your universe too is like seeing the water. Like when you throw the stone, it's the ripple effect of giving.    Anne: Absolutely.    Lau: I love that. That's so cool. To me, it's like a little artistic venture. You don't know where it's gonna go and how it's gonna land, but you just know you threw the rock out there, and you got the ripples going. And so it kind of got me all hot and bothered. (laughs) Fun stuff.    Anne: What a great conversation. What a wonderful — so yeah. BOSSes, one more time, we're gonna talk about the 100voiceswhocare.org. Big impact. Simple mission, big impact, 100 Voices, one hour, $10,000 four times a year. So if you wanna find out more about how this all works, make sure you visit 100voiceswhocare.org and find out more. And tell Claire we said hello and we love her, and we love her as a sponsor of this show. So make sure you check out 100voiceswhocare.org. And of course, as always our sponsor ipDTL, we love them. Find out more at ipdtl.com. So everybody, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week, mwah. Love you, BOSSes.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Join Anne & Lau as they embark on a fascinating exploration of the online casting world and analyze the controversial role of Fiverr in the voiceover industry. They shed light on the complex ethical issues prevalent in the freelance industry, emphasizing the significance of transparency, fair compensation, and adherence to industry standards. Listen in as The Bosses discuss online casting’s ability to provide global exposure, momentum, and representation for emerging voice talents.  Learn valuable insights into navigating the evolving world of online casting while maintaining ethical practices and fostering a thriving voiceover community.   Transcript   Anne: Hey, hey, everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I have my amazing, lovely, lovely boss co-host Lau Lapides with me. Yay!   Lau: Hey everyone! Hi Anne! Back, back, back. We're back.   Anne: Lau, I've got a dirty word that I heard.    Lau: And I've got a jar that you're going to put a quarter into.   Anne: Every time you say that word, that F-word, I mean, and I'm not --   Lau: No…   Anne: — talking the F-word that most people think. Or maybe if you're in the voiceover industry, you know what that F-word is?   Lau: What?   Anne: It's not failure either, because that's also another F-word. But the word Fiverr.   Lau: Oh! Quarter in the jar.   Anne: Quarter in the jar every time you say the word Fiverr. So I think we're going to be rich, maybe, Lau   Lau: Quarter in the jar.   Anne: After this podcast. So yeah, it's a hot topic. It's always been a hot topic. And I think that it's a considerably bigger topic because I've been in the industry forever. So before there was Fiverr, there was other places that --   Lau: Always.   Anne: —  always places that like Fiverr. And I think now we just really hear so much more about it because we're all online and everybody can talk about it in groups easily. And so we should talk. Lau, what are your thoughts about -- and before you just come right out and say what your thoughts are about Fiverr, I mean let's talk about business. I think that when you talk about businesses, you're always going to have businesses that are luxury brands, right?   Lau: Hmm, yes.   Anne: You know, that sell luxury brands or luxury, you know, the idea of luxury. And then you have the other that are economical.   Lau: Yes.   Anne: And yeah, cost savings and efficient. And so I'm going to start by saying I think that that Fiverr fits in that model that probably isn't elegant brands, but it is the more cost efficient. And here's where you can get something quick, easy, cheap, and fast.   Lau: Yes. Yeah, I'm going to second that and agree with that. But it's interesting because the way I frame Fiverr and sites that are similar to that, the way I frame that in my business brain is under the umbrella or framing in a context of how do I start my business or how do I gain more momentum in my business and how do I get known in my business? This is  one way that is a way that you can build your client list. And the interesting part about a Fiverr is if you choose to go that direction, you have to know that people are going offline and it’s wild west.    So they're building their client list, they’re charging all their rates that they’re deciding on, they’re communicating directly with their clients after awhile. So they’re utilizing it as sort of a jumping platform to get out there, get known, and have Fiverr do a lot of the marketing for them so they can get found, and once they’re found, then they start to make the rules themselves. They start to build their own clients themselves. So there's something to be said for having a platform. And now this is very common. Marketplaces all over the place are housing voice-over talent and voice-over services so that they are in essence marketing you. You're not doing the marketing, so that potential clients and prospects can find you.   Anne: So, we should clarify. I mean, there are some platforms -- I'm not going to talk too much about the other ones, but there are some online casting platforms that you cannot take the client off of. I love what you said about how it's a jumping point. I mean, look, online casting sites, you know, SEO works on frequency of words, right? And so search engines are built to be good search engines. And so if you're looking for a voice talent or a voice actor, and you do a search at the Google prompt, then essentially they want to be a good search engine and serve back the right material.    So when you've got online casting sites and you've got people that have thousands on thousands of profiles that say, I'm a voice actor — guess who has the best SEO, right? Those online casting sites. And honestly, it's almost impossible for you as a single individual business to go up against that SEO because you've got so many matches, right? And so the search engine says, well, the first, if you're searching for voice artists, well, the first place that comes up that term or that word, that search term, would be a casting site that has thousands upon thousands of profiles that say, I'm a voice artist.   Lau: Yeah.   Anne: And so I love the fact that you use it to get your jumping off point, your marketing, use it for its SEO. And it's well known that Fiverr has great SEO, and as well as the other online casting sites, Voice123, Voices.com, they all have great SEO. And so to get yourself found of hundreds of thousands of people, that is absolutely an approach to doing that. And I'll tell you what, starting off understanding the type of business that Fiverr is, or some of these online casting sites, they're in business to make money. And also the people that are on these platforms are making money. Now, are they making great money? Are they making, you know, is it, You know what I mean?    Like, if you're on Fiverr and you're making money for your family, I'm not even talking voiceover, but you're doing something — and again, this is a global site where there's lots of representation. And we live in the United States, which is very privileged, I'm just going to say, right? There might be people on there that are from other countries where $5 to them is a lot of money, right? And it’s a way that they can feed their families. And so I can't, I can't, I can never shun the business. I mean, I can, I can say to them, well, I don't like their advertising. I don't like their ethics. I don't like their lack of transparency for any business, right? And I can choose whether or not I want to associate myself with that business. And I do that every single day. Right?   Lau: Right.   Anne: We do that every single day. So as a voice talent, is it horrible for you to be on Fiverr? And again, there's such. back and forth. And for me, Lau, I've always maintained that, mind your own business. Everybody starts in a different place. Gosh, when I started before there was Fiverr, there was Freelancer. And I'm going to say that --   Lau: I remember that.   Anne: And on Freelancer, it was honestly everybody was underbidding. Everybody was underbidding each other to get the job. What's the difference? Whether they call it Fiverr or Freelancer, start with an F. F word. That's what happened but yet when I was beginning, there wasn't a lot of places there wasn't a lot of opportunities. Look if we're gonna be viable businesses we need to have opportunities right for work and we need to know where those opportunities are and so if they show up in a place like Fiverr, that's an opportunity. Now you make the choice whether or not you go and and and act upon that opportunity.   Lau: And the coach in me says, listen, you know, as a business person, we're in business. We always talk about this like, mind your own business is right.   Anne: Yes, mind your own business.   Lau: Like, you want to set industry standards. Yes, you want to have fair working conditions and and good scale pay. That being said, we're still entrepreneurs slash solopreneurs. And we do have to make decisions, sometimes tough decisions, sometimes controversial decisions about how we put plates on the table, how we take care of our families or our rent, how we deal with everyday waking up and going after our business practices. Like we have to make individual decisions, so as you listen to the cacophony of voices that are out there that are making strong suggestions or they’re giving their subjective advice, we have to do that. But we also have to come home and say, let me sift through all of that and let me make my own decisions about what works for my own career. I think that’s important.   And I do want to say, one of the perceived negative sides of a Fiverr is the fact that you’re not leading people in. They’re coming in through their marketing and they’re finding you. But they’re also finding a lot of competitors to you on the same site.   Anne: Sure.   Lau: So you’re in a pool on the same site with direct competitors. So you just have to know, what’s my A-game? What makes me unique and artful? What separates my branding from their branding? What makes me get found? Because they’re not coming in just finding you. They’re finding potentially hundreds of others that are in your category or in your compartment. And you have to work a little harder to separate yourself from the in-house competition that they’re finding.    Anne: And you know what's so interesting, too, is, I'm not the person to judge if you're on Fiverr or not. I always say, I'm not here to judge you if you're on Fiverr or you're not on Fiverr. What I am concerned about is that you price yourself what you know your worth and that you price yourself knowing your worth. And understanding that just because you're new or you're less experienced does not mean that you have to price yourself less.   Lau: Mm.   Anne: And so I always try to instill that you need to price yourself what you're worth.    Lau:  Well, It's an interesting topic --   Anne: It is, it is.   Lau: — because it's like any other, I call it a marketplace because --   Anne:  Yeah, it is.   Lau: — you may not find other competing businesses to Fiverr itself, but the businesses under the umbrella of Fiverr, many of them are competitive. So it's like you're on a marketplace, you're in a marketplace. It's like you're in a supermarket, right? Who else is on the shelf right next to you?   Anne: And you can price yourself low, whether you're on Fiverr or not. That's the thing. And I think that if you do that, then you are undervaluing yourself. And it can be, if you become good at it and you do a ton of volume work at a low price, then it will start to probably impact the industry. If you become known enough, where you do enough jobs, then it can start to impact the industry. If you are not doing it, somebody will. It always happens. And again, it's not under our control necessarily. I think there will always be bottom feeders, and always in any, any industry.    And so I think for you, you have to worry again, mind your own business, and worry about what you're charging and making sure that you're charging enough so that you are getting paid fairly. And it's not like, this is an online business, right, like it's a brick and mortar where we're doing unethical things, hiring labor that's not minimum. Now there is the argument that people get paid less than minimum wage. But minimum wage where?   Lau: Yeah.   Anne: Minimum wage in what country? Minimum wage. And I get that. I mean if you want to make a blanket statement in saying people get paid less than minimum wage. Well, first of all I've been offered less than minimum wage to do voiceover and I always choose to say no to that. Because for all the times that I’ve, and back in the day when I might have said, oh, I'll think about it. I mean, it's always better for me, and I think for most people, to just say no for less than minimum wage, because look, I didn't give up my job, you know, and to go into business for myself to get less than minimum wage.   Lau: Right.   Anne: And that time is better spent finding somebody who understands my value and values me at my fair rate.    Lau: You brought up a really, really important point, though. It's like we're always thinking of Fiverr from our point of view, which --   Anne: Mm-hmm.   Lau: — many of us are in the US or in North --   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: — America or UK, but people are on there from all over the world. And I know when I've hired a service off of Fiverr, you know, I've met amazing people from Sri Lanka and Philippines and on and on it goes, from Russia, I mean, there are artists from everywhere, creators from everywhere. So in one sense, if you come out of your perspective into a more global perspective, you're giving a lot of artists potential work, where they live and what their experiences are, they would never be able to get on their own. They would never have the money to market their business. They would never physically be able to go to a brick and mortar where they live. So it’s a marketplace that is very important to a lot of people globally speaking that just would not have the placement opportunities that we have here in the states. It’s an interesting way of looking at it.   And then of course, when I’ve hired someone, we may go offline, and then their rates completely change. Then we're in a total other stratosphere. We're no longer in the Fiverr territory. We're in this person's business territory. And then I will pay them what they think they’re worth, and that changes, completely changes, and sometimes it actually gets very pricey. It gets very expensive and rightly so, because their services are worth a lot, oftentimes.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: So thinking of it as, I don’t know how you would say it, but sort of a layered approach. It’s not just, oh, they don't charge a lot of money, you're not paying people what they're worth. That's the meeting time, that's the launching place. And then where it goes from there is into a very different kind of bargaining and negotiation. You have to expect that too. No one I have met and worked with on Fiverr stays at that beginning rate. No one.   Anne: And again, I think that I think that you can off the bat — and I don't know I am not I'm not on Fiverr, and I have I've spent very little time on Fiverr. So it's interesting that we've chosen this. This is our topic today because --   Lau: Yeah.   Anne: — I don't have a lot of experience in fiber and I try not to to make statements, you know what I mean, about Fiverr not understanding the impact or having direct experience. I signed up so that I could look for, you know, different types of employees. I've never hired anybody off of Fiverr. However, I've had enough experiences. I understand the concept of Fiverr. I understand, you know, I talked to enough people that are on it, getting their experiences on it. And again I feel it really is one of those things where it is up to to the individual, whether they choose to be on Fiverr, to associate with that. For me, it was just one of those things where I didn't yet need another platform. I just didn't have time to really take part in it or --   Lau: Yeah.   Anne: — do what I needed to do. I don't know, honestly, Lau, if I have to start with a certain amount of money or if I have to work up to it and I didn't have time for that because thankfully my business is doing well. And so I don’t have to rely on a platform like Fiverr, but boy, in the beginning, I did. I relied on those platforms, online casting platforms, not Fiverr, but to pick up clients and to get my name out there and to get experience so that I could ultimately be in a successful business where ultimately I didn't need it.   Lau: Right. And you're also having, well, you're having tremendous diversity on a platform like that, which I love because I have a vested interest in working with as much diversity as possible --   Anne: Mmm.   Lau: — giving people opportunities that they may not have.   Anne: Sure.   Lau: And also young people, like anyone under the age of 30, I consider young. Anyone under the age of 30, they don’t oftentimes know where to go. They don’t have the business practices. They don’t have advisors, even if they are lucky enough to go to college and get an education. Even in university environments oftentimes, you’re not getting business practices or where to go or any real placement. So you have to think back, for those of you listening in, that if you are 40 and up, where were you at 18? Where were you at 22? What were you thinking at 28? And I know a lot of us were thinking, help, I don't know even what questions to ask. Like, I do a graphic design business, I do a PR business, I create, you know, music for people. I don't know how to get clients. I’m a creative. I don’t have that brain.    Anne: Sure.   Lau: So a marketplace like Fiverr was also filling a need of so many people that literally had no idea how to build a business. No idea at all in saying, hey, come in, we’ll give you your start. Hopefully you’ll stay with us, but if you don’t, we’ll give you your start, and you’ll be able to make those connections all over the world that you want to make. And now that we’re all online, you don’t even need a brick and mortar in a lot of these professions. So you're all online. So you need the marketplace in order to do that.   Anne: Well, and of course, there was a hole in the marketplace. And honestly, it kind of makes me think about, well, what's going on with AI in the creative world? Not just synthetic voices, but we're talking art and writing and copywriting and the creative where AI tools have come out that can write things for you, that can generate art for you. I do believe that ultimately if you can use these as tools, and that includes online platforms, use them as tools to help grow your business, to grow --   Lau: That's right.   Anne: — what it is. And of course, now I'm not saying that people that steal art or AI that is stealing art is right. I believe this is evolving to a point where we will ultimately come up with standards, guidelines, and laws that will protect our rights --   Lau: Yes.   Anne: — protect our art, protect our writing. And it needs to happen. There needs to be this sense of injustice about it all, or this anger, or this stand up and kind of fight for what you believe in. And I believe in the end it will work out. I'm not going to stand here and stomp my feet if you're on Fiverr and say, you're ruining the industry for me. Because, honestly, I found my own industry. I’ve found my own clients and that's okay, that it works for my business. And again I like to always look at the positive thing ,the positive spin of everything. I think that Fiverr filled the need. If Fiverr didn't do it, it would be some other company that would have filled the need --   Lau: No question.   Anne: — for that.   Lau: Yeah, no question.   Anne: It's just the way business works here. And there needed to be an option for people that were looking for an effective voice. And I'm just going to say, those people, if they didn't go to Fiverr, they were probably going to one of the other platforms, like Upwork or whatever the other ones would be, so that they could get reasonably priced voiceover. Now, a lot of times, yes, do they value voiceover? It's a perception, right?   People value things in different ways. I think it's just a fact of life, right? They think, yes, this voice contributes to our brand. And as artists, we want to say, yes, our voice has an impact on your brand, and it can help sell for your brand, and it can help elevate your brand. But there are some people who don't see that value, right? And I'm not going to bother fighting those people, nor am I going to bother trying to get work from those people. Because they'll be the first ones to turn around and complain that they paid too much, and then give me tons of revision. And I've done that enough times in my business to know, right? I've accepted a low-ball offer, not too many times, but enough to know that they're usually the most trouble.    So the people that are coming to Fiverr, right? Their expectations, right? And their appreciation of the value may not be where we want it to be. And that’s just something to understand, right? I mean, if we are businesses and we can educate our clients, our potential clients on our value and what we can do for them, then I don’t think we have problems.   Lau: I agree, Anne, totally wholeheartedly. And I think that we as individuals and as business owners and as citizens of the world create our own morality. We really do. Like we create our own sphere of morality.   Anne: Oh, I like that.   Lau: And you really have to go with what your heart and soul is telling you. And you really have to do it with with an honest heart and a full heart. You're not going with mal-intention. You're not going to hurt someone. You're not going to slight anyone. Like you have to believe that in our industry the space is big enough that you're gaining clients. A lot of them have no level of knowledge of what a rate sheet is or what should be charged or what could be charged. So you're in essence, every time you meet a potential client, you're schooling them, you're teaching them, you're building your own morality base to say, okay, we're meeting at this level.    Listen, what's the difference between that and giving away a free hour of coaching? Or giving away, I'm gonna do like 50% off of class. I want to introduce my value to you. I want to build trust with you. I want you to have a little taste test of what we do. And if you love it and if you want to buy into that and invest into that, then the investment is going to change. We all know that.    It's the same with Fiverr. I want to give you a little taste test. Let me just give it to you for a very low rate. But if you really want to invest in this, then we're going to go to the rates that are established by my business, by me. Because you're already buying into the trust factor of working with me and what I'm offering you is filling the need. So it’s very similar to that if you look at it in that way. There's tons and tons of free offers out there, tons and tons of discounts out there. It's ultimately to get buy-in to invest in what the full rate would be for that product or service.   Anne: That's an interesting way of looking at it. Yeah, you're going to buy in or you're going to get a sample. And you know, it's interesting because for me, I want to project my business as not being cheap, because there's a lot to be said, when we've talked about this before, with branding. I mean, there are certain things when I pay a low amount of money, I think, oh, I wonder what's wrong with that? Or I don’t now, is that — and so for me, I've always elevated my business and my voice to be, you know, here's my rate and it's okay if you can't meet that. Thank you. That's okay. You know, I hope to work with you in the future, but that's okay. I will spend time with people who will value my rate. I have no bitterness. I have no, there's no malice. There's, you know, nothing like that. I don't know exactly the rules of Fiverr right now, forgive me for that. But I don’t know if you have to start at a very low rate or if you have to like work your way up to a certain rate. I'm not sure what it is.   Lau: I don’t think so, Anne.      Anne: Yeah, I think you can start at a reasonable rate.   Lau: When you go on the platform, you're going to see, like, let's say you're looking up a service of an attorney, or let's say you're looking up someone, a musician, you want them to create music for you. You may see a layered approach of, I provide this for this amount. But then if you want this, we're going to layer that on at this amount.   Anne: Yeah. Yeah.   Lau: Then we're going to provide it at this amount. So it isn't this flat, like, $5 or $10 thing.   Anne: Yeah, it's not $5.   Lau: It's very much a layered approach to what they do, and some of them start very high. They'll say this is what I'm worth, this is what it is. I'm on the platform that's known as a discount platform, but I'm not offering your discount. And that's what it is. So it's all over the place, it's all over the place.   Anne: And again, it's all about your business. And it's all about how you run your business.   Lau: It is.   Anne: And I truly believe, and I want this for every BOSS out there. I really, really do. I mean, gosh, guys, I've learned so much in my many years. And Lau, you too, I'm quite positive. I've learned so much about valuing my worth and understanding good clients to work with and knowing where to place myself. And if I need to negotiate a specific rate or a custom rate, which is what we do all the time, pretty much, for every single client, and it needs to be a little bit lower to fit a budget, and it's okay with me, and I know I'm going to get more work, or it'll be worth it in some other way outside of monetary value, that is up to me. That is my judgment. That is my business decision, and it is how I run my business. And I will tell you that being able to walk away and saying no, and I've said this multiple times, has given me the confidence to be able to understand my worth and be able to be successful in my business. And I think however you do that, whether you're on Fiverr, whether you're on another casting website, whether it gives you the confidence at some point that you're like, I don't need this anymore, or I can get my own clients -- I think it's all a stepping stone.    And I think it truly is what I want for all the BOSSes is that confidence. You're worthy of a fair price, whether, no matter what platform you're on. You're worthy of a fair price. And once you have that confidence and the confidence to walk away from a low ball price, right, or something that deems you as cheap, right, then your business will grow. And once your business grows, it's kind of like, it's just like a wonderful little snowball that just gathers the confidence and it gathers, you know, oh, this is great. Now I know what I'm worth, and my business can grow and I can be successful and I can put some money in the bank, right? And then if that if that next client says no or offers me something too low it's okay I can walk away. I've got the money in the bank. I'm able to pay the bills and boom.   Lau: That's right.   Anne: And that's what I want for all of you BOSSes out there, however you get there. Know, know, know your worth.   Lau: Mm-hmm, and it goes right into your submissions if you were with an agency. I'm an agent, and I can tell you, there are times we're working with a budget that is minuscule. It's like, oh my gosh, who could even work for this? And yet we have a lot of folks that want to book that job for many, many reasons. And then the next one that comes in is overpriced. They're giving us too much budget for it, and they don’t realize it.   Anne: But Lau, is there ever really too much?   Lau: No, no, but like, if you see it in the same category, right next to each other, and you're like, Oh, my goodness, this one's offering $400 with no usage. And then this one's offering, you know, $2000 with three years’ usage. You're like, oh my goodness, there isn't much difference between these two. And I know for a fact, I can tell everyone hands down, that I have many people who want to audition and want to submit for both. And I respect that.   Anne: Now as an agent, will you fight for higher rates?   Lau: Oh, always. I mean, that to us is a truism. We're always going to go back and forth on every single thing that comes in and goes, come on, we need another thousand on this. You can do, right? So we're always quoting high.   Anne: You're always fighting for the talent, yes.   Lau: That's not even to be discussed because that's our job. That's what we do.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: And that's what we want to do. But we know, like as negotiators and anyone who's on that business, and we know where it stops. Like if you push just hard enough, you’re going to lose that client. It’s okay, sometimes we’ll lose the battle, but we always want to win the war, so to speak.   Anne: Yeah. Yeah.   Lau: Is that we don't want to lose the client unless it's like completely insane.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: We want to keep the clients because we know we have a whole lot of people who still want to submit and work.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: They just want to work.   Anne: And I love that. I love that you said that, your experience as an agent, because, guys, agents go through it as well. I mean, you're fighting for fair compensation, for good rates. God, it always used to make me wonder, because people would be like, well, my agent shouldn't accept that rate. And I'm like, sometimes the agent has nothing to do with that rate, right? And like you just mentioned, there's a fine line between losing the client forever, right, because you can't push.   Lau: Yeah.   Anne: And understanding that. I mean, voice talent, sometimes I wonder where they get their assumptions from, right? You know what, you've got to understand this is a business, it's negotiation, and that, it happens. It does. Sometimes there is no budget.   Lau: I also don't want to play the omnipotent authority of what everyone could or should be doing. I want to be a conduit to getting people work, and that means at all different rates, at all different levels, at all different -- and those people need to take agency and to self-screen and say, I don't want to do that.   Anne: Exactly.   Lau: I say, great, you don't even have to let me know, just pass on it. That's okay. I don't make any judgment as to why you're doing it or why you're not doing it. I'm just running on an assumption, you're a professional talent, you want to be in the roster, and you want to be privy to what is coming through.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: And that's all I feel. And to me, Fiverr is the same thing. If you want to be on the platform, you want to be privy to what's coming through, and then you make your own decisions and self-screen. To me, it's very, very much the same.   Anne: Excellent topic. The F word, guys. Remember, mind your own business and know your worth. And thank you, Lau, for an amazing discussion yet once again.   Lau: Awesome.   Anne: Ah, good stuff.   Lau: I loved it.   Anne: BOSSes, I want to take a moment and have you imagine a world full of passionate, empowered, diverse individuals, giving collectively and intentionally to create a world that they want to see. You can make a difference. 100VoicesWhoCare.org to learn more. Also, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like a BOSS. Find out more at IPDTL.com. Thank you so much, everyone. We love you. We'll see you next week.   Lau: See you next week!   Anne: Bye.   Lau: Bye!

In this episode, Anne is joined by special guest Tom Dheere, the Vo Strategist. With over 25 years of experience, Tom knows how to ride the waves of ever-changing technology and market shifts. Discover the secrets to driving traffic to your website through social media, blogging, and top-notch content to keep you ahead of the pack. They share how old-school tactics like cold calling and email marketing might not be cutting it anymore. Boost your confidence with Tom's killer advice on negotiating rates like a BOSS and flipping your approach to snag the rates you truly deserve. Plus, we unveil the controversial truth about Fiverr and how this billion-dollar beast can actually help you charge industry-standard rates… Transcript 0:00:01 - Anne Hey, hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am excited to welcome voiceover business and marketing consultant and VO strategist, Tom Dheere, to the show. As a voice actor with over 25 years of experience, Tom brings a wealth of voiceover knowledge to the table In his one-on-one strategy sessions, diagnostic sessions those sound interesting and his mentorship program, As well as speaker appearances at industry conferences. Tom, I am so excited to have you here today. Thanks for joining me.    0:00:34 - Tom Thanks for having me. It's always a pleasure to chat with you, Anne.    0:00:37 - Anne Tom, you know it's chaotic out there.    I'll tell you what there's disruption, There's, I say, mass panic, and I think that today more than ever, as entrepreneurs and business owners, we need a strategy more than ever. So I am super duper glad that we are here talking to you about that. So let's get a feel for your take on the industry, because you've been in the industry for gosh over 25 years and I'm sure you've seen it evolve, kind of like myself. Talk a little bit about your experience in this industry and how it's evolved over the years.    0:01:20 - Tom Okay, well, i decided I wanted to be a voice actor in 1994, so I was a graduate school dropout, so I got my. I decided in late 94, got most of my. I got my training in my voiceover demo in 95, which is a cassette tape. I still have it here in the drawer. And then when I got that demo, my coach gave me a little certificate and gave me a stack of Xerox copies of production company listings and said you know, start your good, your cold calling good luck. Because in 1995, there was I mean there was an internet and some websites, but there was no.    0:01:57 - Anne Yeah, there was no social media.    0:01:59 - Tom There was no online casting sites, there was no home recording, there was no digital delivery of audio files, there was no phone patch, there was ISDN. But like, who had that besides? like the, the, the rate, you know the major TV networks, you know. So you had to buy cold called and I called, called for a year until I got my first gig, so until I joined voice 123 in 2006,. That was pretty much, that was pretty much the only way to do it, and also I was going into New York city once a week. Voiceover is unlimited and you'd pay whatever was $35 for a 10 minute meet.    Meet up with a casting director or an agent or a manager which is how I got my, my first manager, who I still have to this day, 17, 18 years later. So my cassette turned into a CD which I was duplicating, burning you know. Oh God, the my post office hated my guts.    0:03:04 - Anne Now mail. Yes, cause.    0:03:06 - Tom I had a long a lawn bag of padded mailers and they'd be like, oh geez, here comes Tom again and like, all right, everybody just gets to the side and just tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick you know cause?    0:03:15 - Anne I was just constantly sending it out, yeah, and then that evolved into MP threes. So let's, let's, let's start. I think that there's, there's something, there's a parallel here, a disruption right. Some disruption in the industry right. So it evolved from a tape into a CD, into today, which is all digital right.    0:03:36 - Tom Right And then and then pay a voice bank and voicescom and voice 123 disrupted the voiceover again, again and you know, and now AI is disrupting the voiceover industry. But this is what I say and all my students.    0:03:52 - Anne A pattern Tom. A pattern Tom. Yes, there is a pattern throughout the years, so I don't think that disruption is going to stop anytime soon.    0:04:00 - Tom No, it's going to keep going, and what I like to say is that when the light bulb was invented, it disrupted the candle making industry and nobody cared about the candle makers, except for the candle makers.    0:04:13 - Anne People were saying Oh good I can.    0:04:15 - Tom I can read a book at night without my house burning down. Like that's where everybody was coming from. It's like okay. So the candle makers had a choice They could go to Congress to try to get light bulbs outlawed, they could go la, la, la, la la which a lot of voice actors have been doing especially literally today, this week, on the voiceover groups. Or they could adjust to their candle making industry to accommodate certain parts of the light bulb industry, or they could convert their candle making factory into a light bulb making factory.    So, you can either fight it, ignore it, adapt to it or embrace it. And the voice actors that are going to still be standing for lack of a better term on the other side of AI and whatever the next disruption is, the ones that are adapting, evolving learning, growing, operating from a position of abundance as opposed to a position of scarcity, and not shouting at the rain. They're the ones that are still going to have a viable voiceover career. Yeah.    0:05:08 - Anne Yeah, i'll tell you, it has really it has really wreaked havoc, and I think that you know, gosh, you know, and I've been following it and following it And you know, two years ago on the VO Bus podcast, i mean, i think that you and I can both agree to do due diligence and educate yourself on, you know, evolving technologies or disruptive technologies that can affect your business, and that is so very important that we, you know, truly educate ourselves. And I had done a series of interviews, of which I'm still doing periodically, with you know, large companies, people that are working in synthetic voices, ai companies to kind of get to ask those tough questions like Hey, what's happening here? And are you, you know, is there transparency? You know, what are your ethics? You know, do you have, you know, objectives in terms of protecting?    you know, voices as you go, and I think it's been an educational journey for not just me as a business owner and a voice artist, but for the AI companies as well. I think we are all learning and evolving with technology as we go, and I've had experience doing that myself, you know, working in technology for over 20 years, and I still consider myself working in technology. So, in terms of you know your, your students and and your clients. What is your? what is your biggest tip now for, let's say, people coming into the industry, how to get a handle on this industry and be successful.    0:06:43 - Tom Do as much research as you possibly can. Work with professional coaches who are boots on the ground blue collar voice actors as well like who are actively engaged in the voiceover industry. That's not to say that there's not genre coaches out there, like Mary Lynn Wissner, for example, who is not a voice actor but is an amazing coach.    There are only a handful of people like that, as you know and but people who are actively, who have to continue to grow and evolve with the industry to maintain relevance in the industry And be better than the AIs on a storytelling level as quickly as you possibly can.    0:07:23 - Anne Yeah.    0:07:24 - Tom Because they are getting better and better almost daily. Are they going to completely take over the entire voiceover industry? No, Are they going to. you know, take away a percentage of certain jobs of certain genres, mostly for entry level voice actors Yes, yeah. The trick is how do you get good enough that, when you're starting your voiceover journey, that you're already better than the AIs, so you can kind of leap over?    that hurdle and be a human narrator as quickly as possible. That's going to be the challenge. What I think that means is the people that are more naturally talented, the people who have theater training, the people who have on-camera film and TV training, improv training, those people coming into the industry which are all parts of what defines a better actor are going to have a better chance than people just coming at it from other sectors. Frankly, i mean, a registered nurse has every right to stop being a nurse and try to do medical narration for a living, and I encourage that. I've trained people like that, you've trained people like that over the years, but it's going to get harder and harder if they don't have natural storytelling billing, natural storytelling ability, or they haven't been trained in non-voiceover storytelling. So get as many acting classes as you can under your belt. Get as many improv classes under your belt so you can learn how to make strong choices quickly, which is a key to being a good narrator. Understand the technology and maybe get your voice cloned as quickly as possible.    0:09:05 - Anne That's very interesting. I'm finding that I do have some people, because I did the series and I've been investigating and educating myself with AI companies for the past few years, i've had people ask me, and not all of them want to shout the rafters saying, oh, i'm out there trying to figure out how to get my voice cloned or how to get a synthetic voice. But what's interesting is that synthetic voice, the companies that are creating synthetic voices. They're also evolving and changing on a daily basis, and so it's really important that, as voice actors, you keep up with that, and I'm always a big proponent of if you have a business, you want to understand the market in which you're selling And so part of that market. If the market is changing. And, tom, as a business person, you're all about researching and looking at the market as it evolves over the years. And where do you see the market heading in terms of voiceover casting? Where are we going to be able to get these jobs, or where can voiceover talent find work? And I know that's the golden question, right.    People like they expect a five-minute answer from me. Where can I get voiceover work? But where do you see that evolving and heading as we move on in the future?    0:10:27 - Tom That's a great question, Anne. There will still always be a place for needing agents, managers and casting directors for high end work, class A national commercials, high end video games and cartoons, high end promo, high end in show narration. I don't think that's ever. I don't think that's ever going to change. Casting sites are going to continue to be as relevant as ever and is still the the most effective way for new voice actors to onboard into the industry. Because you can. All you need is a credit card and you could just join the casting site and start auditioning immediately.    The interesting part is going to be the direct marketing part which. I learned the hard way when all of my direct marketing strategies, which worked like gangbusters in 2013, 14, 15, 16, all of a sudden stopped working because, so many of those production companies recording studios that I had worked with through direct marketing strategies have moved to online casting sites just because it's easier for them to curate a roster, manage talent, manage projects.    So, um, ai is going to take a chunk out of online casting sites. It's going to take a chunk out of direct marketing clients the low end stuff and stuff that would never normally get like there's audio books out there that will never get produced unless it's an AI voice.    0:11:51 - Anne It's going to do it out of interest or ergonomics or just sure, whatever that sure whatever the rights holder can, um, can afford.    0:11:57 - Tom So you also new students, when it comes to this kind of strategies, need to figure out what. How does what a success look like for them, Which genres do they want to be successful in And which portals do they need to access to become successful in said genres? So if you want to be on the next Pixar film or be in the next fallout video game, you need to get a lot of training, you need to get a top notch demo, you need to get high end agents and you're going to eventually need to join SAG-AFTRA. That's not. That's not changing for everybody else. You know the pendulum is going to swing, stuff's going to move or stuff's going to move around, but you're still going to need you're still going to need the aforementioned good training, good demo good website, good home recording.    Um, and the ability to keep up with industry's trends by reading blogs, watching podcasts like this um, working with coaches like, like you and me. Um, it's going to what, what percentage of what genre is going to get lost and where you're going to need to go for each of it. I mean, who can? who can say, but if you have, if, if online casting sites stigmatize you, get over it get in there develop your skills develop your auditioning skills.    0:13:10 - Anne That was it. That was the nugget of the day. That was awesome Sound right of the day. Yeah.    0:13:14 - Tom Because online casting sites like I'm. I know because I'm on voice 123. I audition every day and I regularly see clients that are posting casting notices that I used to work with five, six, seven, eight, 10 years ago, who won't take my phone calls anymore because they're on casting sites. That's the only way they'll talk to me And I'm totally fine with that, because you said you got to go where the buyers are. you got to go where the market is going. That's where they are. That's where you need to be.    0:13:41 - Anne I think there's something to say If we just tell every boss out there, you know, first of all, um, be a boss, right And understand that you really have to stop. And I think, take a uh, uh, take a look at the bigger picture. The bigger picture is we're providing a product, uh, to a market, the market. You have to evolve with the market. It's not about you know, uh, oh, my gosh, it's, it's, it's you know your voice over business and your craft and your and your art, which I completely, yes, it is. But honestly, you know, at the end of the day, right, i want to pay my mortgage, right, and if I want to have a business, it always amazes me, tom, how you know you go to conferences and I know you know when, when, cause I used to, i used to teach business classes as well. Whenever you go to see which classes fill up first, it's always the performance classes, it's always the cartoon and video game.    Always those because, well, okay, so they're fine, they they allow the creativity. But, honestly, you know, beyond the fun and the creativity in the booth, you've got to be able to run a business that will make a profit. If you want to write, if you want to do this as a business and you want and you're serious about it I mean, if it's you know, if it's a hobby, that's a difference, that's a different podcast. Sure, you know, and I think that you know what you offer, you know, to people as a, a VO strategist or even just a business strategist, is invaluable. And I truly think, bosses out there, you've got to step back.    Um, and yes, of course you know, create the product that the market is demanding Right, and and also know how to run your business right. And so I love your story that you know the people that used to take your calls no longer will take your calls. You know your calls and now you have to work with them on the platform, and mostly because it's easy and more convenient And I will be the first person to ask any of you bosses out there if you're using any form of AI to do anything. Let's say, create a blog post or, you know, maybe play around and change your headshot And you're using the technology to make your jobs better, more efficient, then you cannot be the person that gets upset if you're not, let's say, evolving along with the synthetic voice aspect of it.    0:16:06 - Tom You know, absolutely.    0:16:08 - Anne I mean. So, as we talk to peer to peer, i think, or pay to play platforms, i think online casting is absolutely. What about Tom? let's talk about what about your website, your online platform, your online storefront? What do you think about that in terms of being able to market your business?    0:16:29 - Tom Okay, it's funny because people coming into the industry, you know most of them realize they need some kind of training and then they realize, oh, i need to record from home. You know I need a demo. And then almost all of them think, well, i need some kind of website. But they don't know why they need a website. They don't know how to build a website and they don't know what is necessary to create an effective website. What I tell my students is that no one is gonna find your website nobody.    There are literally tens of thousands of voice actor websites out there. The odds of them typing in some stuff on Google, bing, yahoo and finding you is virtually impossible. I mean, tomdeercom is over 20 years old and I've been blogging for 14 years, so I've got really good SEO and I rarely get found on it. Anyway, the point is, your job as a voice actor is to drive traffic to your website, and you do that by being on social media, blogging, creating a presence, creating conversations, creating quality content to get them to notice you. And then there's email marketing and cold calling, which I'm sure you realize that they don't work a fraction as well as they used to, because why should they answer the phone of some voice actor trying to talk about themselves, when they're just gonna go to an online casting site to cast their next project. They're already more than halfway down the sales funnel anyway on an online casting site, as opposed to trying to get them into the sales funnel through cold calling and all that.    So driving traffic to your website is extremely important, and then get them to do the most important thing, which is download your demos.    0:18:12 - Anne Everything else, is irrelevant Or click it back. I mean, everything else is secondary to downloading the demo. Right, yeah, but now downloading the demo? now we've got there's the fear. There's now there's some fear that if we allow our audio, you know, freely out there and I, you know I have podcast, you have podcast. Anybody can download this podcast I've been doing it for six years and potentially turn it into a voice.    0:18:40 - Tom Okay, Look everybody. I've been doing this for 25 years. I have done thousands and thousands of voiceover projects. I've probably done tens of thousands of auditions over the years, I guarantee my voice has been cloned without my knowledge many times over.    I guarantee that auditions that I have you, that I have done, has been used for broadcast without my consent or without compensation. Every website that exists is going to get hacked at some point. None of our data is safe, it's just not. All you can do is do the best you can to mitigate your risk. try to be secure. I can't worry about submitting my demo and worrying about it getting cloned.    I mean if I, if I was worried about that, i wouldn't have a career. I would. I'd be quadruple bolting the door and hiding in the bathtub. There's just nothing you can do about it. So don't worry about don't worry about that. Put the demo out there. I mean because the the the odds of it happening are extremely slim, but the longer you're here, the more likely it's going to happen. It's just you know well.    0:19:45 - Anne Tom, i mean, i think I think really again, we we talk about that bad actors, um, which is so interesting in our industry. Now, the term bad actor, right. Had I not really delved in deep to talking to people outside of my own industry, i would not have known what the bad actor meant. Um, outside of, like the literal meaning of it, right, but the bad actors meaning those companies, right, or those people that may take advantage, unfair advantage, um, with the in in clone voices, without permission, create deep fakes, all of those things. There's always that possibility And I had such an interesting conversation the other day with Shyamala Praga, who is very well known in the AI industry.    Um, regarding, you know, laws and regulations and and instead of being reactive which is what we typically are right, reactive, something bad happens and then a law or you know some sort of policy is is established that then, you know, takes care of it. Um, really trying to again educate all of us, not just in our industry but everywhere, that, um, these things could potentially happen and we need to protect ourselves from bad things. Um, you know, what are your thoughts about? I mean, i, like, i really love your, your, your perspective on you can't be worrying about that all the time, but are there any steps that you would recommend to to, let's say, to protect um or to be cautious about that? I mean, i certainly am not going to make my demo not downloadable because I want it to be convenient for people to listen and buy.    0:21:20 - Tom You have to have it. It has to be downloadable because, when it comes to your direct marketing strategies and driving traffic to your website, the odds of them having a voiceover project for you right now, at the time that you have marketed to them successfully and they've actually gone to your website to review your demos, the odds of them actually having a gig for you is infinitesimally small. I can count, i think, on two fingers in 25 years that that's actually happened. Representation and online casting insights are for opportunities now. Direct marketing, driving traffic to your website is for opportunities.    later They're not going to remember you once they leave that website of yours You need to have. They need to walk away with the demo, so they stick it in a folder somewhere in their cloud or on their desktop, so when an opportunity comes along that you may be right, for your demo was right there for them to review, or if again another thing that I always like- to say is that, no matter what in a marketplace and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, there are I will pay for things that make my life easier and make my life more convenient.    0:22:25 - Anne So, for example, i hate, i always use this my lipstick. So my lipstick is reliable, dependable, stays on all day, i don't have to put it on again And I you know I use that as an example product. I pay a lot of money for this lipstick. Now I certainly feel that no matter. Look AI, you know pay to play sites, you know driving down, you know rates. I no matter what. If somebody likes and gangooza right and likes her product, they're going to pay the money and they're going to remember me and they're going to buy it again and again. I'd love to hear your thoughts.    0:22:58 - Tom You go to a department store and there's five pairs of shoes on on the shelf and four of them cost, you know, $75 and one of them cost $800.    Everybody immediately goes and looks at oh, what's this? What's the value of this? Why is it worth $800? Well, if they says it's worth $800, then clearly it must be worth $800. So I will happily spend $800 on this pair of shoes. So most people coming into the voiceover industry are broke and perceive themselves as an employee or a starving artist. They are already immediately devaluing themselves and training voice seekers to devalue them.    So it's a systems of, it's a systems of thought problem. And I'm not going to sit here and blow sunshine up everybody's butt and say you're special, you're wonderful, you're, you're going to. All your dreams are going to come true, because that's not what the VOStratigist does. This VOStratigist does not sell dreams. The VOStratigist sells reality.    My job is to give you objective data so you can set, you can make informed decisions about your voiceover career. But you want to do everything you can to set yourself up for success And the first step one is mindset. Know your worth. Know your worth based on your pure talent, know your worth based on your training, know your worth based on your experience. And know your worth based on what the industry standards are.    Sag After over here GVAA over there, Know what your worth is and comport yourself And it's maybe it's a little fake it till you make it. I don't. I'm not sure you can do that. Having confidence and being confident in your training and your talent and your understanding of the rates, That should empower you to make sure that people aren't buying stuff from you that are shopping in the wrong aisle.    0:24:56 - Anne And also, i would say, as a as a talent just coming in, i don't think you can expect to get into or to become a top tier you know, professional without making an investment. I mean, that's the other thing too. I cannot tell you how many people they'll be like. You know, i really need coaching, but I just I don't have any. You know, they don't have the budget they don't have And, and so in reality, there has to be those things in place. You can't expect to go in and make a ton of money without investing in yourself and investing in that, in that coaching that's going to help you to be the most human voice actor that you can be.    0:25:37 - Tom Patience is one of the most important skills that you need to have as a new voice actor. Everyone wants to start talking for money as quickly as possible and using their funny cartoon voices that their dentist told them is hilarious And that's all. That's all great, but if you can't afford the training yet, build a budget create a savings plan.    be patient, find community theaters or summer theater programs that have free acting and improv training, and develop your foundation of storytelling skills while you're saving money to work with a professional coach like Anne, or work with a VO strategist you know a business marketing consultant like me. There's a ton of things that you can do. But if you dive in when you're not ready or you go with the first demo coach that you can afford and submit to that demo to those agents for the first time, it's not gonna go well.    It's not gonna go well. So I'll never tell anybody not to pursue their dreams, but I will tell everybody to be smart about pursuing their dreams by having. This is what I like to say no matter what you're doing in life, do it with both hands and on a flat surface. Be smart about it, i learned that when I tried to open an Amazon box with a pair of open scissors like this, which we've all done, Oh, yeah, yeah, not yeah. Both hands flat surface.    0:26:58 - Anne Very guilty of that. So then, let me talk a little. let's talk a little bit about rates, because what is your best advice for those actors who might be struggling to find work at their desired rates when you know there is this perceived? you know, race to the bottom, with technology disrupting What, how can they pivot their approach to succeed and get rates that they deserved?    0:27:21 - Tom Learn how to negotiate. And it's not like a Middle East Bazaar where you're haggling over the price of, you know, a goat or something.    It's just the better that you can understand the rate structure of voiceover on a session level and on a usage level, the better, the more empowered you are to educate your clients or potential clients, because for so many casting notices that I see, or so many emails hey, i found you on Google, whatever they've never cast a voiceover in their life.    They haven't the faintest idea what the ergonomics are, what project management is involved or what the rate structure is. Being experienced it's not necessarily a correlation between being professional and experienced. You don't have to be experienced to be professional To understand there is a rate structure. I understand what the rate structure is and I'm able to articulate it to somebody who has no idea how the voiceover industry works. The more that you can do that, the more empowered you are to get industry standard rates and the more empowered you are to educate voice seekers to value you and not let them use cheap rates. Well, i paid this guy five bucks. I'm gonna leverage it to get you to pay you five bucks where you say no, you don't do that You gotta think long term.    You have to value yourself and your fellow voice actors, because every time you accept a ratty rate, you're making it harder for everybody else. Every time you accept an industry standard rate, you're making it easier for everybody else.    0:28:51 - Anne Now, but okay. So then here's the question. Yes, i agree that there should be the thought process about the industry as a whole. However, you will always have those voice actors that it is their business, right? I'm a big proponent of saying mind your own business. That means, don't worry about how other people get their business. In that respect, though, do you know what I'm saying? I truly believe I want people to understand their worth in order to make a bold and take the challenge to actually negotiate that worth with a potential client. So, speaking of five bucks, i know that you had talked to me a little bit about an experiment that you had conducted using the online pay to play the F word, fiverr.    And I personally, i'm one of those people that thinks we need to talk about this because it is a viable marketplace in the well viable it exists in our industry. Let's put it that way you may not agree with it and you may not feel that it values your worth, but what were your findings? What do you think about Fiverr?    0:29:58 - Tom Okay, it had been coming up so much in conversations with my students, with my fellow voice actors, fellow coaches, producers, panelists at conferences And, like I said, my job as a video strategist is to collect objective data so I can help my students make thoughtful, informed decisions about how to move their voiceover business forward. Fiverr is real, it is here. It's a billion dollar company. There are thousands and thousands of voice actors on it. So I needed to understand what exactly it is, why it is and how it works. So I created an account, I followed the tutorials, i looked at YouTube videos, i built a profile and then you build what are called gigs And a gig is basically broken down by genre.    I will narrate I'm an American voice actor who will narrate your explainer video or e-learning module or whatever And then what you do is you build the rate, but you're breaking it down bit by bit. So This is what really fascinated me about it is if someone said to you and I've got an explainer video, how much do you charge? and you probably charge what? 400, 500, whatever sometime around there But if you actually broke down by dollar, how much it costs for you to record the video, how much it costs to edit the video, to clean up, process, format, save, deliver. Do retakes give you permission to use the video in a certain way on a certain platform? if you chop up that $400 into all those little individual things, that's basically what you're doing on Fiverr. So it could say base price $5, but then if you add deliver as a wave file, deliver it within 24 hours you know, we'll only get two retakes.    Mvp, I'll move you up to the front of the line, If you, then if you go da-da-da-da, then the total can be $400. It can be an industry standard rate. Fiverr saying oh, we get everything's for five bucks.    0:32:05 - Anne It's more of a marketing position than anything else. And if you think about that in reality, right, if they're going for that market for the people who don't right, who don't have a lot of money to spend and they want to go for lower priced, saying Fiverr and marketing themselves as Fiverr, get affordable, then absolutely I mean as a business they built for a market where there was a hole And yeah, and now of course, because they have so many voice artists on it right.    that increases their SEO value, which increases, you know, ease, convenience, of use, and so that's what makes them you know the force that they are in the industry.    0:32:49 - Tom Right. So there's three levels on Fiverr And if you earn a certain amount of money and a certain amount of timing, get a certain amount of ratings in a certain amount of time, then you go to the next level and then the top level and the people at the top level charge industry standard rates and they do fine. The trick is kind of punching through that membrane from the first level to the second, in the second to the third. I feel like that's where it can be challenging.    0:33:12 - Anne Yeah, and I feel like you'd have to work that, because I think you have to earn that right, you have to get so many ratings, and I feel like you'd have to actually work the platform for a bit so that you could get up the ratings, so that you could climb up the ladder, so that you could charge industry rates. But, although not impossible, it's a very interesting concept. And because we are talking about it, bosses, doesn't necessarily mean we are condoning that platform, i mean. But if you look at it from a business standpoint, it absolutely, you know it covered a hole in the market and logically I can see how that works.    I absolutely can see how that works Now, do I love that? it makes voiceover seem cheap? No, not at all. And I think to each and everyone out there, it is up to you to make that decision whether you want your brand associated with that brand, because that's a whole other way of doing business, right? So, again, you're almost working for the platform And then that platform represents your brand versus, let's say, for me, i've always been let's do it myself, and you know, seo for me.    I've been online for years and it's worked in my favor And I've built up a great clientele list And I'm very fortunate that I'm able to continue on that. And while I am a member of a lot of pay to place, i don't have time to actually audition. And you know, for me, email marketing well, it's probably not quite as effective. Well, it's hard to say. I still believe that there's effectiveness in email marketing if you've got the right message and you have the right subject line, because people have less and less of an attention span. But it's one of the reasons why I built the VO Boss Blast. It was a way to help direct market talent, so that they didn't, you know, and I basically started it for myself. Isn't that like every company.    0:35:05 - Tom Right, if you create a product you want, help You do it to serve your needs.    0:35:09 - Anne I did it because I was like I don't have time. I want to do the podcast, i want to do VOPs, i want to be you know, i'm coaching, so I don't have a ton of time, so let me just create a direct marketing product that I can use. And then, of course, i shared that.    0:35:24 - Tom I do want to say for the record I have not booked anything on Fiverr. I set up my gig, i made adjustments to my rates because you're supposed to refresh it and try to feed the algorithm. I couldn't. I also did the same exercise on Upwork and it worked similarly and I got the same results. I could not. I could not book anything. I guess that just means I'm not a particularly good voice actor.    0:35:47 - Anne No, I think it's because you didn't have 100% of your right time to really devote to it. I mean, that's what. I think That's a part of it.    0:35:55 - Tom And the other thing is understanding the economies of the voice seekers, absolutely.    0:35:59 - Anne Diversify the economies and understanding of you know, money and how it works, of the country of origin of the voice actor too, absolutely, and Tom, i'll be the first one to say I mean, we've been in this business a long time. If you were on Voice 123 in 2006, right, you remember? Freelancer.    0:36:17 - Tom Oh, i was on Freelancer. Oh good, so was I. And Elanzen and Guru, yeah, i was on all of them.    0:36:22 - Anne So all of those evolved into Fiverr.    Really, that's really it was that it was like who could bid the lowest right? And I will tell you that, as a you know, entering into the online space, i mean that's where I did get some jobs. Now, did I take jobs that were probably not what I was worth? Yeah, I did, i did, but I learned quickly, you know, and it was a tough, it was a tight, it was frustrating because it was always people under bidding And so you get that type of client, but what you do is you learn about where those clients right, those are the clients that don't value your product Not necessarily you but they don't value the product enough to pay the price right.    0:37:01 - Tom They want to pay the cheapest, the biggest of the pain they are.    0:37:04 - Anne Exactly, exactly So. Wow, what a great conversation, tom. This has been so wonderful and enlightening for the bosses out there. I'm quite sure, tom, how can people get in touch with you and work with you?    0:37:17 - Tom Oh, go to vostrategistcom. I encourage you to book a free 15 minute consult. We can talk about any part of the voiceover industry that you want. I also have a video shop where I've got closing in on 30 different videos covering everything in the voiceover industry, from time management to workflow to genre exploration to managing your finances. I also have a great mentorship program where you can do 30 minute check-ins with me once a week, once a month or twice a month. It also gives you access to some of those videos for free. But, yeah, book a session with me, free session with me at vostrategistcom, and I'd love to chat with you.    0:37:50 - Anne Good stuff, tom. Yeah, bosses, today more than ever we need a strategy for moving forward in our business. So go to it, tom. Thank you again. I would like to talk to you bosses about. As individuals, you know, it can seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group, we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought possible. Visit 100voiceswhocareorg to learn how And a big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl You too can connect in network like bosses like Tom and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye-bye.    Transcribed by https://podium.page

Embark on a sonic journey with Anne and audio expert, Gillian Pelkonen, as they explore the world of microphones. From understanding the difference between dynamic, condenser, and ribbon mics, to unraveling the pricing mystery and debunking the 'quality equals cost' myth, your hosts cover it all. Learn what makes a great microphone, how to choose the best one for your unique voice, and how to navigate the complex pricing landscape. Whether you're a seasoned pro or just starting out, this episode is your ticket to achieving your dream sound without breaking the bank.   Transcript   Anne Ganguzza (00:01.171) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so excited to bring back once again, very special guest, audio engineer, musician, and all around amazing tech person, Gillian Pelkonen. Hey, Gillian.   Gillian (00:18.462) Hi, so good to be back talking to you and the bosses.   Anne Ganguzza (00:24.311) Yes, I love talking to you because, wait, hang on a second here. I know it's corny, but here. Is this thing on?   Gillian (00:33.543) Oh, it's on. Let me tell you, it is on.   Anne Ganguzza (00:39.433) How do I sound?   Gillian (00:41.738) Honestly, I'm not even saying this because we're on. I think that you sound great and this podcast sounds so great and your audio editor who is listening to this now, you don't need me to tell you, but you're doing a good job. I really like how it sounds because I listen to a lot of stuff and I'm very critical. I'm always like, oh, I don't really like that. But I really like the way VioBoss sounds.   Anne Ganguzza (00:45.727) Ha ha ha!   Anne Ganguzza (00:54.953) Aww.   Anne Ganguzza (01:01.676) Well, I would imagine an audio engineer listening to a podcast. I mean, that's what you do. So I think there's so many contributing factors to what really produces great sound. And I know that we've talked about studios in the past and things that we can do to create great sound. But we haven't really concentrated on   Gillian (01:09.523) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (01:20.43) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (01:25.707) this guy right here because first of all we were always maintaining that you didn't have to have a great mic to sound great. However, I think that it would be really a good topic. Yes, there you go. I think it would be a good time to talk about microphones.   Gillian (01:27.17) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (01:33.697) Mm-hmm. Expensive. Expensive is...   Gillian (01:41.694) It's not really, there's, yeah. Yeah, no, I totally agree. And I always say that great mics come at many different price points and people think, oh, a great mic is the $1,000 mic, is the $1,500 mic, even like the $800 mic. And that's not.   always, you know, it's not always true and there is a lot that goes into microphones and I am learning more and more all the time. Realistically, the price point has a lot to do with like how it's made, where it's made, but if you break down what's inside the mic, which I don't know if any like, I don't even know if audio engineers care about this, but like there's the capsules and the transformers and all of those things that are in the mic that are what produce the sound quality that either makes it more expensive or less expensive or sometimes   Anne Ganguzza (02:03.241) Mm.   Gillian (02:29.928) expensive mic has the same inside design as a more expensive one, but it's just like a brand thing or that might not be 100% correct, but it is true that people will take the shell of one type of mic and they can make the insides and kind of scope it out to be similar electronics to a more expensive mic. So I don't know, it's not all about the price point, it's all about what you what you think.   Anne Ganguzza (02:35.079) Mmm.   Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (02:54.087) So do I dare ask, have you gone inside the capsule? I mean, have you taken, I mean, is that what you do? Do you go into microphones sometimes to check them out, repair them, just be geekily interested?   Gillian (03:08.154) Sometimes you have to fix... I haven't opened up microphones. I mean a lot of the times like if you're looking at... well you have a you have like a pop filter windscreen on yours because I know you use a 416 and I use a KMS 105   Anne Ganguzza (03:22.022) Mm-mm.   I do.   Gillian (03:28.83) which is just my talking mic. I like to use it for vocals. It's one of the only mics I own because I work at so many studios. I can just basically use whatever mics are there. But this one I love for singing, for talking. It's a really good live mic. But it has like an... I wish I could like take it off without disrupting the audio, but I can't. It has like an outer windscreen, like a metal windscreen that a lot of mics have. And if you look, you can actually see the capsule in there.   Gillian (03:58.784) looking at capsules is if you shine a flashlight in you can like really see it. But no, to answer your question in a long-winded way, I haven't taken apart a mic yet. I have been doing a lot of looking at the inside of like outboard gear, like pre-amplifiers and stuff like that, but microphones are on the list for me to look at.   Anne Ganguzza (04:18.235) Well, so because you use so many different types of microphones, I think, in your everyday job being an audio engineer, you're not just working with voiceover artists. You're working with musicians. I'd love to like, can you break it down for the bosses? Like, let's make it easy. Like, what are the different types of microphones? Like, would...   Gillian (04:26.274) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (04:32.718) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (04:40.398) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (04:43.908) a voiceover artist from what I understand that we're not gonna be using the same mics as a musician necessarily. So let's talk about those types of mics, differences in microphones, like from a very bass level.   Gillian (04:48.407) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (04:57.09) Yes, there are basically three different types of microphones and the types are determined a lot by how they work but a lot of what is going on inside of them. So there's dynamic microphones which are never really used for voice, they're used for other things. And then there's condenser mics which are used by voice actors and used a lot for voice and for detailed things. And then there are ribbon mics which are not usually used for speaking voice. So basically as a voice actor all you need to worry about are condenser mics.   microphones, but there are other types of microphones that work for other things that you want to be recording. I could go into more detail about them, but I don't know how necessary it is for voice actors. They always say dynamic mics are durable. That's like, I mean, you use certain ones for voice, like a SM57 or SM58, which is like a   Anne Ganguzza (05:43.945) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (05:50.046) you go to a house party or you go to like a live event, someone's going to be using one of those microphones, the joke is like they're $99 and you can throw them off a building and they'll still work. Like they are so durable. They're, they're so, I don't know. It's   Anne Ganguzza (05:50.047) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (05:56.952) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (06:01.801) Ha ha!   Gillian (06:05.786) I think I don't know how to break one without like submerging it in water. And condenser mics are known for being sensitive, which is why we want to use them with our voice because there's so many intricacies in your voice and in your performance that need to be picked up. And ribbon mics, they're ribbons because they have a little metal ribbon on the inside and it's part of how it works. And those are more sensitive mics and use those a lot either on like, I mean, I know we use them a lot for like guitar amps or like horn instruments because you can be really   Anne Ganguzza (06:15.071) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (06:35.76) loud and it like smooths out the signal from my understanding of how I use them and what I know about them.   Anne Ganguzza (06:41.199) Ah, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And so a voice artist wants to use the condenser mic. And so for our podcast, OK, so I will say in my studio here, I've got a couple of different mics. Now before I purchased my 416, I had a TLM 103, which I also have here in the studio, which I like.   Gillian (06:48.706) condenser microphone. Yeah, TLDR, condenser mic.   Gillian (07:03.83) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (07:08.579) But even before that, I had a Rode NT1 mic. And of course, I went through, I think, the gamut of price ranges. And I think when I started, I mean, goodness, I just admitted the other day on a podcast that when I was streaming live from my living room, my first VO peeps meetups, I used a USB mic that was the Blue Snowball. And from there, I went to a Rode NT. And then I went to an AT2020 too, which I think was...   Gillian (07:16.834) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (07:27.618) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (07:37.127) you know, in terms of expensiveness was not that expensive, but I thought it was a decent mic. And I think at that point, you know, what would you say in terms of the different types of mics? Cause like my TLM 103 was over a thousand dollars, you know, compared to my AT2020, which is like right now, I think you can buy one for $99. What would you say is the biggest difference between those two mics?   Gillian (07:40.61) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (07:51.255) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (07:57.659) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (08:06.047) I mean, without knowing a ton about what goes into either of them, I do kind of, like I said before, I think the price difference does come from parts. And so...   Anne Ganguzza (08:10.419) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (08:17.503) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (08:18.162) I would assume the capsule inside of a Tlm 103 is more expensive than the other one, the electronics. Really upgrading, when we talk about upgrading mics, it does come with a price, but if you think about what the mic is, it's the capsule, everything inside, the electronics working together, higher quality materials will produce a higher quality signal that's recorded into your computer. So, can you get a lower priced mic that sounds good? Yes.   Anne Ganguzza (08:32.838) Mm-hmm   Gillian (08:47.956) of we're degrading the audio quality and listening to it through a phone speaker or out of computer speakers. So having really a really good signal to start with is great but sometimes it's not, basically you can get a signal that sounds good enough to sound professional at those lower price points but I do think it all comes down to.   Anne Ganguzza (08:53.927) Mm.   Anne Ganguzza (09:04.255) Basically you can get a signal that sounds good enough to sound rational.   Gillian (09:10.786) price of materials and sometimes like prestige of brand, at least a little bit, because there are a lot of brands that I know like Warm Audio, Flea Audio, they make remakes of vintage mics, but also they make like remakes of like a U87, which U87s are still sold, which basically all of the remakes is kind of what I was talking about earlier, similar parts to get a similar sound without the brand price point.   Anne Ganguzza (09:14.343) like the Steve Huff brand. Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (09:26.727) Remakes of like a U87, which is still sold. Which basically all of the remakes is kind of what I was talking about earlier.   Anne Ganguzza (09:40.211) So it's not necessarily, and I know we've talked about this before, so it's not necessary for a voice artist to get good sound by paying more for a microphone.   Gillian (09:50.478) Mm-hmm.   Yeah, it's like anything when you're starting out in a business. Like I keep talking about my tech work because it's on my mind. I've been doing it all week. I just bought a soldering iron and I bought a $40 soldering iron and the guy I'm working with has a $200 one, but I don't know how much I'm going to be doing it. I'm just dipping my toes in. I don't have a big budget for something that's not paying me back yet. And so it's kind of like this is my intro thing and it works. We're doing the same work. It works. One day would I want the more expensive one? Maybe. Just to have a higher quality.   Anne Ganguzza (10:10.459) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (10:21.807) Yeah.   Gillian (10:23.013) But you know when you're especially for people who are starting you got to have something to work up to and something to you know get started with because who is starting a voiceover and has a couple thousand dollars to drop on microphones I don't know anybody   Anne Ganguzza (10:30.843) Sure.   Anne Ganguzza (10:38.735) Yeah, that's rare. That's rare. And I do know that it took me, oh gosh, at least 10 years to get my TLM 103, because my Rode NT1, which was a few hundred dollars, did a great job for me for many years, at least six years, in the voiceover industry. And I finally decided, well, you know what? I mean, people talk about the TLM 103, and I   Gillian (10:47.464) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (10:57.774) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (11:05.763) I actually went for that one before I bought my 416, and then I decided that after I got my TLM 103 and I moved to a new studio, I would entertain the 416 because I was also thinking about my 416 for a travel mic. And so I think in terms of microphones, and you were talking about sensitivity before, I know that, you know,   Gillian (11:09.806) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (11:23.445) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (11:29.367) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (11:31.803) I have, you know, sitting outside of the studio, I have a Shure SM7B, which I use because I'm not in my studio, but it's a lot of podcasts, you know, use that mic, podcast hosts use that mic, because it doesn't pick up a lot of external noise and it sounds good kind of no matter what environment you're in. However, the higher the mic price, the higher the sensitivity, it seems. My TLM 103 picks up like, you know, a fly.   Gillian (11:36.526) Mm-hmm.   Mm-hmm.   Gillian (11:56.162) Mmm.   Anne Ganguzza (12:00.463) you know, or a breath, like super easily. And my 416 does as well, but I have to be in a particular location, right? It picks up more in the front of the mic versus the TLM 103, which picks up all the way around. So I guess maybe it has to do with, you know, it's something, it's called the cardioid pattern, is that correct?   Gillian (12:01.098) Yeah.   Gillian (12:11.104) Yeah.   Gillian (12:22.522) I know, yeah, yes, we're talking about polar patterns. It's so interesting, I hear you talking and I'm like, I know exactly why you think these things. Because it is interesting, the SM7B is a dynamic microphone actually, but it has a cardioid polar pattern and we use those all the time. I personally don't like the way my voice sounds on it for singing purposes, but a ton of people love it. It's a great studio microphone just in the music recording environment. If you wanna be in the control room,   Anne Ganguzza (12:24.819) Mm-hmm. Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza (12:36.638) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (12:50.291) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (12:52.336) singing with stuff playing back on the speakers. It's a great mic because it's dynamic and because of the pickup pattern, because it doesn't feedback the way if you use the TLM 103 with speakers, just the pickup pattern, it would feedback. Anyway, am I losing everybody? I'm sorry. I'm just nerding out. Basically, what we're talking about is TLM 103. It's actually a large...   Anne Ganguzza (12:54.778) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (13:02.419) Right.   Gillian (13:17.154) I'm pretty sure it's a medium or large diaphragm condenser mic. And so the polar pattern is more wide and the capsule is bigger, so it's more precise and it picks up more sound. The issue that I personally have with the 416 that we can talk about is not everyone has good mic technique with it. And because the pickup pattern of that mic is so precise, I don't know...   Anne Ganguzza (13:21.138) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (13:40.999) Mmm.   Gillian (13:46.262) I don't know exactly what the pickup pattern is of it, but it's definitely cardioid if not like super cardioid, which means the pickup pattern area is even smaller. I find people love that mic because they say, oh, I hear a lot of things that like, once I have this mic, then I'll sound great. And people get a 416, they spend a lot of money on it, and then they're outside the range of where the mic picks up. And then it's like, I can't...   Anne Ganguzza (13:52.703) Mm-hmm. It's smaller. Mm-hmm.   Gillian (14:11.282) hear you, you know? So I don't know, technique is a big part of sounding good on a mic too. It's not just about the gear, it's knowing where the mic's picking up and just positioning yourself in that area so that it gets you the best sound.   Anne Ganguzza (14:13.444) Yeah, yeah.   Anne Ganguzza (14:26.803) That makes so much sense. And I know that one of the reasons why I love the 416 for travel is because you end up in environments where it's less than ideal. And so, I mean, you're not like in my studio here, I've got all my acoustic panels, it's built, it's double walled. And so I have a really good environment in which I'm recording. But when I go travel and I'm in a hotel, I don't have this studio. And so...   Gillian (14:28.834) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (14:39.587) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (14:49.846) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (14:56.075) I need something that is not gonna pick up the hum of the air conditioner or the fan that's in the room. And the 416 I found to make a huge difference. And yeah, you're so right about understanding like your mic and how to use it and mic technique because I have to be in a particular place in order to make my voice sound good with the 416, close to the proximity.   Gillian (15:02.058) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (15:23.379) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (15:25.347) versus my TLM 103 where it's not as critical because, but yeah, I couldn't take my TLM 103 to a hotel easily and make it sound as good as I do here in this studio.   Gillian (15:30.725) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (15:35.038) It picks up everything.   Gillian (15:39.614) Yeah, and something interesting about polar patterns when I first learned about them, and you can look it up. There's diagrams that show you basically the shape.   of what they look like. I was always thinking, oh, like the pickup pattern, I need to be thinking about what it's picking up. But another big thing about it is thinking about the rejection. Like if it's picking up in a certain way, it's actually rejecting audio from other spaces, which makes everything you're talking about completely true. It's going to reject a lot of the stuff that you don't want in your recordings, which could be a really helpful choice when picking a mic. Like what's your environment like? If you have a noisy studio or if you have a less than ideal situation, then maybe a   Anne Ganguzza (15:57.927) Mmm.   Anne Ganguzza (16:11.743) Sure.   Gillian (16:16.88) condenser TLM 103 is going to pick up too much unwanted noise. So there's a lot of things that go into making the decision and just things to think about to help you find the best mic for your voice and your situation, I think.   Anne Ganguzza (16:21.467) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (16:31.935) What would be your recommendations for people starting out? I mean, is there a particular mic that you think would be great, or is there a particular, I guess, methodology in terms of picking out a good mic for your voice? Like, what would you recommend? I mean, there's so many people that post on the forums, and they're like, what should I buy? Like, how do you attack that in terms of selecting a mic for your voice?   Gillian (16:51.63) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (16:57.326) Um, well, I think my situation is different than most because I work at a bunch of recording studios so I, um...   When I was picking my favorite mics for my voice, I did what is called a shootout, where you just line up a whole bunch of mics and you record yourself on all of them and then you see which one sounds the best to you. I know you have a bunch of recommendations on your site and on my site I do as well, but I guess without getting into specific, like you should get this mic, you should get that mic. There are a few places I actually, this past weekend I went into New York City, if anyone   Anne Ganguzza (17:12.295) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (17:22.975) Mm-hmm. I do.   Gillian (17:36.016) area, B&H, photo, video, whatever, that technology store has a room and you can go in and there's a technician that sits with you and you can try out all of the microphones. So really like my advice would be to have a chance. I know at music stores too you also have that. If you go to like Sam Ash or Guitar Center, you can totally go and try a few microphones before you buy them and all the ones that we're talking about, the 416, the TLM 103,   Anne Ganguzza (17:39.076) Oh yeah.   Anne Ganguzza (17:47.843) Oh, that's wonderful.   Anne Ganguzza (17:53.986) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (18:03.414) the SM7B, those are all there, because those are very popular microphones. So if you have a chance to try them, great. If you have a friend that has one that you could try it. But also, if you can't do a shootout in person, there's a lot of resources on YouTube of people.   Anne Ganguzza (18:05.907) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (18:12.616) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (18:18.626) testing out different microphones. Sweetwater is one of my favorite resources. They give you so much information and they do recorded mic shootouts so you can hear what they sound like on a voice or on the same voice and maybe just determine what you think sounds good for yourself. And then also be aware of your price range. Sorry, I'm just giving like a bullet point list of advice and maybe look into a company like Warm Audio that has a remake of the U87   Anne Ganguzza (18:22.431) Mm-hmm. Water is one of my favorite resources. Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (18:42.64) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (18:48.64) for most people's voices but is cheaper than a real U87 to get a similar sound without paying the full price. That'd be my advice to do a combo of all those things.   Anne Ganguzza (18:53.053) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (18:59.116) And also I know that certain companies like Sweetwater, you can buy and they have a great return policy. So it's kind of like try before you buy or, you know, and I think it's just wise for anyone who's trying out a mic. I mean, don't, I wouldn't go on blanket advice from anyone really. I think you still have to, you have to get that mic and it has to be in your environment. I remember   Gillian (19:04.246) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (19:15.92) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (19:23.847) Gosh, a long time ago I went into a studio and I loved the way I sounded on this particular mic and I went and I bought it immediately. And when I put it in my studio, it did not sound the same. And of course that makes a lot of sense because the studio I was in versus the studio that I had at home were completely different. I mean, number one, the studio I was in was a huge studio, had different acoustics than what I had in my room and I just didn't like it as much and I ended up returning it.   Gillian (19:47.182) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (19:52.871) And so I feel like, yes, I have lots of recommendations of like, here, I think this would sound good. But I think you should always try first and put it in your environment and see if you like it. And then always have that option to return it.   Gillian (19:59.426) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (20:09.842) Yeah, I think that's a great point. And Sweetwater too, they have representatives that you can talk to and get on with them and be like, this is my situation. This is my pre-empt that I have. This is what I'm using my mic for. This is what my... and they can give you recommendations as well. And I don't... I've never returned with them, but I do know they have a good return policy. And also, I mean, we've said this in previous episodes, like people...   Anne Ganguzza (20:19.827) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (20:32.066) glamorize the microphone, but really, first off, no one ever asks you what microphone you're using. And as an audio engineer, I don't care what microphone you're using, as long as you sound good. If you sound good, I don't care, I'm happy. And there's so many other things within the chain that we've talked about, the computer, the preamp, all of those things that contribute to how high or low quality your final sound is.   Anne Ganguzza (20:34.879) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (20:39.647) Hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (20:55.139) Mm-hmm. I do know that there are some studios or some clients that do request a particular mic, but I have a feeling it's if you're trying. Yeah.   Gillian (21:04.215) Really?   Anne Ganguzza (21:08.687) I think what they're trying to do is they're either matching or trying to match like a sound from the mic from before, but it's very rare. It's not, I don't think it's typical. As a matter of fact, in most of the work that I do, nobody ever said to me, you need to have this type of microphone. It's in very rare instances where they say, and maybe in promo or something like that, you need to have a 416 or... But I also feel like...   Gillian (21:13.029) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (21:18.143) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (21:26.743) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (21:34.239) Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza (21:37.743) I could be just saying that. I know I've read that, that it's very infrequent, but it does happen. But for the most part, I've never been requested to have a particular type of mic. As a matter of fact, nobody's ever asked. And so I've just only heard if my mic, or if I didn't sound good, and that had a lot of different factors to it. Wasn't just the microphone that was at play there.   Gillian (21:51.212) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (22:00.366) Mm-hmm. Yeah. I agree. Facts.   Anne Ganguzza (22:06.455) So any other good tips that you have in terms of, I guess, purchasing a mic or for a person just starting out? I mean, in terms of price point, do you think, like, I mean, if a microphone costs $79, do you, you know, is that something that you think is a good price point to start with or is it, you know, what are your thoughts?   Gillian (22:30.618) Yeah, I guess that's a good question. I never think about it like that, but I think um   Obviously if you can avoid a USB microphone, I would just because I think we might have talked about this previously or I just talk about All the time basically with a USB microphone. You're paying the price which is usually lower than most for all of the you know a to D conversion Your microphone your preamp all of that in one and then the power source is Coming fully just from like that USB a so everything within that mic is usually lower quality   Anne Ganguzza (22:43.067) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (23:04.275) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (23:07.888) afford to have a preamp and mic even if they're not very expensive. And in my head, not very expensive is like $200. I would say like $200 microphone, $150 microphone, even some that are like $100 and then preamps same sit at like $100, $115, $200. Then that's what I consider inexpensive. And then anything in like the $250 range is like mid.   Anne Ganguzza (23:17.467) Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza (23:22.925) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (23:28.818) Yeah.   Gillian (23:37.948) like 300, 400, 500, I would say that's like higher than all of the like super pro super expensive stuff is usually closer to a thousand dollars. So that's what in my brain what the range is.   Anne Ganguzza (23:40.871) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (23:45.81) Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza (23:50.791) Well, I know that when I'm recommending to a student, and I have a studio gear page, and I know you do too, and it really depends on their budget, number one. I think if they aren't sure that this is a career for them or   Gillian (23:59.81) Mm-hmm.   Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (24:08.499) They may not get into it more than a few hours a week, or they're just not sure about it. I say don't invest a ton of money right away. I mean, you can get some really reasonable equipment. And I'm not talking USB. I would never recommend a USB as a mic for you to use for creating audio for your client. It's good for webinars. It's good for maybe some quick.   Gillian (24:17.966) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (24:24.366) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (24:31.979) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (24:36.174) here.   Anne Ganguzza (24:37.603) Auditions, even then I say, oh, try not to because you want to put your best foot forward. So, I mean, but there's some really inexpensive mics that I think sound great as long as you've got a good environment. And audio interfaces, like I would recommend, the AT2020 mic I think is a great mic. The Rode NT1 mic is great. It's not more than a few hundred dollars. And audio interface, we've talked about this before. I love the Steinberg.   Gillian (24:44.93) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (24:56.412) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (25:04.392) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (25:05.351) and I think the Steinberg is a great interface and it's $169. So you're not talking about a large investment and it's something that you can probably resell easily if you decide you don't wanna get into the voiceover. Yeah, absolutely.   Gillian (25:09.667) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (25:15.718) And reuse. I mean, everybody is online now. Zoom meetings, it's just.   so much better to have some sort of microphone. And I have, there's one USB mic that I've heard that is actually like, I've been like, oh, what mic is that? Thinking it was, you know, an interface and it was just like a gaming mic, but that was like a $200 USB microphone. So even like, when I was talking about USB microphones, I'm talking about like the $50 ones, the $20 ones that you see on Amazon that it's like, oh, just get this and you'll have a microphone. That's not   Anne Ganguzza (25:23.321) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (25:33.299) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (25:36.883) Mm-hmm. Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza (25:45.631) Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (25:49.905) Yeah.   Gillian (25:51.724) enough quality for professional voiceover, I don't think.   Anne Ganguzza (25:56.111) Agreed, agreed. And I think, you know, going along with, if somebody doesn't have a huge budget and they're just getting into the voiceover industry, I think you have to pay equal attention to your microphone as well as the space that you are recording in because you want that sound, right, that potential audition or that sound to be decent.   Gillian (26:13.486) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (26:21.291) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (26:21.979) You know, and to really, again, first impressions are everything. And so I think it's a combination of, you know, a decent mic with a place that's not gonna be, you know, having a ton of echo or, you know, I mean, that's probably the first thing that we do as casting directors is when we get an audition is throw away somebody that has poor quality audio. And the mic is a part of it, you know, the mic is a part of it, so.   Gillian (26:27.722) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (26:45.571) I agree, 100%.   Anne Ganguzza (26:51.131) Absolutely. Well, we could probably talk all day about microphones, but I think this is a great primer on microphones for those bosses that are just starting out. I mean, absolutely. I think, you know, Gillian, I'm sure if you had any other recommendations, can people go to your Studio Gear page? I know VIA Boss has Studio Gear as well. Mm hmm. For for recommendations.   Gillian (26:58.315) Yeah.   Gillian (27:14.558) Yeah, yeah, it's gear recommendations. So you can check it out. And I will say outside of.   gear issues and mic issues. My next biggest gripe, which we can do an episode on with voiceover audio that I am like, I wish this was different, is over or incorrect processing. So that's really that starts to be almost worse. So we will leave it there. But just so you know what's in the near future for you guys, I know we're going to have much, much more to talk about.   Anne Ganguzza (27:36.424) Ah yes, agreed.   Anne Ganguzza (27:47.145) Well, thank you so much. Yes. Thank you so much, Gillian, for those words of wisdom. Absolutely. Bosses, take a moment and imagine a world full of passionate, empowered, diverse individuals giving collectively and intentionally to create the world they want to see. You can make a difference. Visit 100VoicesWhoCare.org to learn more.   Gillian (27:49.467) Oh, thank you for having me.   Anne Ganguzza (28:10.111) And I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can network and connect like bosses. Find out more at IPDTL.com. You guys have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Thank you. Bye.

In this episode, Anne & Lau share their experiences from a recent conference + discuss how to harness the momentum that comes from events, classes, and workshops. As voiceover artists working in home studios, staying connected and motivated is crucial. Discover how meaningful conversations and collaborations can propel your business forward. But it's not just about business…delve into building relationships beyond work and find support through mentors, coaches, and networks. Whether you're a seasoned pro or new to voiceover, tune in to ride the wave of momentum and elevate your success.   Transcript   Anne: All right. Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm feeling super powerful today, by the way. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my VO BOSS co-host, Lau Lapides!   Lau: Hey everyone, good morning or good afternoon, wherever you are. (laughs)   Anne: Lau, I'm feeling powerful. Definitely business superpowers. And you know why?   Lau: So many reasons, but tell me.   Anne: Well, I am still riding the high of the last conference that we were both at, where I'm so excited that we met each other for the very first time in person, which was so, so wonderful. And I'll tell you, people ask me, so how was the conference? What was your biggest takeaway? Was it great? And I'm like, you know, I think the very best thing about this conference was the energy. The energy that I have received and gotten and been motivated by and inspired by. And I feel like it's time to take action, to move forward and grow, and really just run full speed ahead with my business. And I think we should talk about taking action.   Lau: Oh, I love that. I'm going to second that. I felt like I got out of there and I was like Rosie the Riveter. You know, I just felt like I wanted to jump on things. I wanted to follow up. I wanted to stay in touch, keep the momentum going. There was an energy and momentum in an event like this that's hard to craft and create completely on your own. Just that group synergy, that team love, that family feel, right? And you and I meeting, oh my!   Anne: I know!   Lau: Wonder Twin powers activate.   Anne: I know. I feel like we've known each other forever though. It was like, oh, there's Lau, but it was like, oh my God, it was in person. It was so, so wonderful. And I think there's that extra special juice that you get when you are in person with people that can really help to motivate you. And I know it is so hard for voice talent, as we are so isolated in our booths and working from home a lot of the time by ourselves. And now that we're just starting to get back out into the world, I feel, a little more carefully, but we're getting out there, which is just wonderful. I think even I didn't realize how much I missed, you know, that energy. And I, you know, gosh, I used to have events all the time at my home and people are like, are you going to bring them back? Are you going to bring them back? And I'm like, oh gosh, you know, thinking about putting on events, it's a lot of work. But I'll tell you what, you get so much out of it.   Lau: Oh, the energy is infectious too. It's like you can't be sad. Even if you're shy or introverted — I had a few clients say, oh, I didn't make it, I'd like to go next year, but I'm a little, I'm not great with crowds, I'm not a very social person. I said, that's okay, because guess what? There was a room for everyone. There was a space for everyone. And you could be in an X session with 12 people. You could be in a speaking room with 40 people. You could be in a private meeting with someone in the lounge. So in my mind, whether you're an extroverted introvert or an introverted extrovert, you could come and enjoy and maybe not sit in a ballroom of 700 if that makes you feel uncomfortable, right?   Anne: Absolutely. And then just the people that you've always wanted to meet, that you've been working with them online, maybe they're in your accountability group, maybe you've been posting and exchanging messages back and forth. And when you finally meet, you can just go to a private area and just motivate, inspire, and all the good stuff. And I really came away thinking, wow, that was, even more than Anne Ganguzza — who I've been to conferences over and over and over again, and it just has been so long. It was just so refreshing. And so I think it would be good to talk about, what do we do now? What do we do now with all of that good energy? And how do we take action to really move ahead and move forward? Because I think this is the time to do it.   Lau: Right? And there's a, to me, it's like surfing a wave. I'm not a surfer, but I can visualize what a surfer is doing. And there's a wave coming. As it's coming, you're preparing for it. And then you start riding it, which is our conference event. We're riding that wave. But then it starts to come in and starts to crash, right? And then it kind of turns into a minimal, almost nothing anymore wave. So you have to ride the wave as long as you can while people's energy is up and excited. I actually had people, I'm sure you did too, Anne, that said to me, Lau, I want to reconnect before my momentum goes or before my energy leaves me. So there is that magical moment that you want to capture your clients and your colleagues in. You don't want to miss that window of time.   Anne: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I think, and this, I want to just not make it so much, well, of course, we just came back from an in-person event, but also I want to talk about when you have even an online class or an online workshop or an online meeting, something that inspires and motivates you. I mean, we've been getting together week after week after week recording this podcast, and you inspire me, you motivate me. And I think the energy of each other, right? We really pump each other up. And I think that's the time when we're taking notes, we're brainstorming ideas. That's when we can really help each other to grow in our businesses and really feel fulfilled. It is such a tough thing to work on your own and not have that energy.    So I would say that even if you have a really great workout class -- you know, I do the VO Peeps online, because it's hard for me to do them now, of course, in person. And it allows people from all around the world to join. And I'll tell you what, there's energy that can be received from those sessions as well. And so I think that if you are taking notes and you're jotting things down and you have goals, I think this is now the time to make sure that you've written them down and read them again and then start a plan for achieving those goals, right?   Lau: Absolutely. And no way am I saying you have to be in person in order to get that kind of energy and juice from your people. You can be online, you could be at your accountability group, you could be in a coaching session, you could be in a rehearsal session with a buddy. But the point is as creatives, we are oftentimes better at creating and motivating and keeping our momentum alive when we are with others that are like-minded.   Anne: Yes.   Lau: And I always say, you know what my precious dad taught me in business, one of his business principles was, surround yourself in the room with people who are so much better than you. You should not be the smartest person in the room. Be the dullest person in the room. That way, you can challenge yourself, you can learn things, you can share growth, and you don't have to feel like you're spinning your wheels. None of us want to feel like we're getting lazy or we're not engaged or we're spinning our wheels. That's why I love these conferences, because I feel like it's for every level. Someone coming in early entry, someone who's super advanced, who's been doing it for 15 years, they all belong. They all can find their peeps in there and they can learn and grow from them.   Anne: One other thing that I got from this too is that in-person energy. And of course, if you can, I always say, if you can have in-person meetups, I think they're absolutely worthwhile. There's something to be said about -- there's people that I hadn't seen in so long, and the past few years has been tough on social media. And I am the first to say it has been tough. I am all over social media because I’m selling events to people on social media and organizing audition demolitions and things like that. And so I am a lot, I am very much into social media.    I have been, in terms of engaging in social media, I've stepped back just a little bit outside of here's my event and I hope you guys can come and posting what I hope to be inspiring and motivational messages. But I have noticed that if I'm reading social media a lot, there's certain times that it becomes not inspirational or motivational and a little bit toxic, or what I perceive to be a little bit self-serving. Okay? But yet when I was in the room with maybe the same person or people that I have thought, well, maybe they're self-serving or what is that post all about? You really get to feel like, you know what? I get it now, I see. What might've seemed self-serving to me then became, oh, well, they're really feeling good about themselves. And it really just softened and gentler and more, I'm going to say, emotional, heart to heart. I had many, many times during this conference when I was like close to tears, just by being motivated and inspired by people.   Lau: Yeah, and I think we've got those cues that we don't often get, sometimes we even miss on Zoom, like the nonverbals, the energy, even just like the scent of someone. It sounds weird, but you've got the scent, the pheromones, the olfactory, which gives you memories. When you've got someone's energy right next to you, and they're looking into your eyes, and they're shaking their head and they're drinking coffee with you, there's a sensibility about that, that just as human beings, we need to have in our life to support all of our online work. It can't just be online.    We have to also have that real intimate time with a real social distance, you know, so that we get that sense that -- I don't know if it's a group, a team, a village. I don't know what to call it, but it's, I'm in humanity. I'm part of humanity and I’m part of my industry’s humanity. I’m part of something that’s larger than myself. It's almost like it's almost like the military. My son's in the military, and it's like, why do you want to do that? Oh, because you're a part of something that is much larger than you are, that has a common goal in mind. And that's what our industry is, where all of a sudden we remember we're part of a much larger mosaic of people and creatives that that give us more meaning as to why every day we do what we do.   Anne: Yeah. And I don't know if you were there and you heard the Team Challenge project at the very end. It was people coming together to create a commercial for, I think it was the local ASPCA or a local animal shelter. Yeah. And just people coming together and doing amazing things. And I think that when we come together, we can do amazing things.   So when we are talking about taking action, BOSSes, I would say, you know, do what you can to get yourselves an accountability group or a group of peers that you are meeting with, and make it a point to meet with them, you know, once a week, once a month, whatever that is, just to maybe go over what are some goals, what are some issues you're trying to work out. And as I've always said, I like to write things down because when I write them down, it then cements it in my memory. It gives me something that I can go back and look at and something that I can say, all right, keep on top of so that I can do what I need to do to achieve that goal. So for me, it would be get yourself a group of peers that can be accountability buddies, or even just having coffee once a week and just discussing the industry. Having a podcast together. I feel like, right?    Lau: Who knows? Who knows?   Anne: You know, really anything like that and write it down, write down actions that you want to take and goals that you have. Lau, you've got any other tips that can help you to really take action on this energy that we're getting?   Lau: Absolutely, don't limit yourself when you do find your people or your different groups of people that you're going to frequent and be a part of. Don't limit yourself to only professional talk and only business talk. I tend to fall into this problem myself, just because I love my business, I'm really passionate, I always want to talk about it. But when you're together, make sure you, you know, observe moments of each other's lives. What is the family doing? Or, wow, that outfit.    Anne and I, before we get on air, we’re talking about our makeup and our outfits and our jewelry and our hair and our because that's part of who we are as people. You know it's part of our fun. It's part of our fun time. So don't forget the fun, and part of the fun is talking about something or doing about something that's not business related. It may be, you know, maybe you guys go out bowling together or maybe you guys talk about animals together or whatever because that really helps bond and cement your relationships through things that matter to you alongside your business, but not only your business, right?   Anne: Yeah. And a lot of times, you know, when it comes to networking with people, that's really where the hook is. You know, not so much the business part of it, but when you are connecting with other people, are those personal things, those things that you have in common. I had a student who, you know, who brought me a gift of a stuffed kitty. Oh, my God, the cutest thing, because who doesn't know that I love cats? And some other wonderful person that brought me an amazing pair of red boots and a wonderful piece of jewelry that says VO BOSS in case you guys haven't noticed, with my birthstone. My very favorite, Lau, thank you so much for that. But knowing that, right? And so now I've got something here that I can wear that can inspire me.    And I'm not saying you have to get everybody something to wear, but that personal touch, you can carry it with you. And also, I'm gonna say, because, again, our businesses are so personal, it's our voice, it's our personality that we're bringing to a read that story-tells, brings things to life, that the better you know a person, even outside of their technical prowess of being able to voice something effectively --    I know for me, when I help brand people, or I help select, what would be a great piece of copy for this person? And I know what they're passionate about. I know what their likes and their dislikes are. But I will tell you, it's always a great way to meet someone, right, when you're not initially attacking them with, you know, oh, I'm a voice artist. Can you hire me? In reality, what can I do for you rather than, you know, hire me, hire me, hire me? So I think, you know, always meeting people and approaching these groups with, what can I do to help you, is, I think, a wonderful way to approach that. And I think that's going to help you be more motivated and more inspired. I know for me, helping others inspires and motivates me. Just to want to do better and do more.   Lau: I would even add in, come up with an idea every now and then. It doesn't have to be a major breakthrough that you're sharing with everyone. It's just like a little mini idea. Like, for instance, you're a branding goddess, so you might have a quick little tip on branding that you're going to bring to your group, you're going to bring to your team, you're going to even bring to a conference where you're speaking on and say, let me lay this one on you, you guys. No one would think about this as a branding tool that also develops your rapport and deepens your relationship.   That’s part of your expertise that you can give to people. That may be non-tangible, you're not spending money on it, it's just coming from your creative mind, that it's a gift that keeps on giving, literally, because someone could run with that ball and say, wow, Anne taught me this, Lau taught me this, now I'm using it in my business, now I'm doing whatever. That's where we want to go. We want to give value, give education, and give ideas at times too. Not your most precious ideas of your business. I'm not inferring you should give all that away. I’m just saying there’s always these tips of value that we’re looking to do, whether we're doing a podcast or we're doing a blog or we're doing whatever, right? That's what we're looking to do. And that in itself helps people bond to you because they see it's coming from an honest place.   Anne: Yeah, yeah, I think really that's key, is honesty and authenticity. And also it doesn't always have to be about voiceover, guys. Your support and motivation and inspiration can work into every aspect of your group's lives or the person that you're trying to help and move forward. You know, this is such a crazy industry and it's so volatile sometimes, and when you’re first starting out, and it's hard to get your wheels spinning and see success. I think that's where a lot of times motivation and inspiration is very helpful. I know I've got some students that I mentor that sometimes it doesn't, it's not about voiceover. It's about how am I going to be able to continue to pursue what I love and start to see success while being able to pay the bills, right? So there has to be something practical there.   And so a lot of times, you know, my advice may or may not be like, okay, pursue voiceover, pursue voiceover. Be like, look, we need a parallel path. And so you can do this because you've got these skills. And so why not think about a side hustle in this or think about this, or I know it's hard, don't worry — you know, that kind of thing. A lot of times when talent will get frustrated and say, I'm just not seeing any success, you know, I don't know what else to do, and they're at their lowest point. I mean, here's where an accountability group, you know, can really help to inspire and motivate or a good coach.   Lau: And maybe you even need to dig deeper and have a support group. Accountability groups do offer support by nature, but maybe you need something even deeper and more emotionally or psychologically driven. Like you gotta find out what you need to be happy, balanced, and successful. And that has been a theme that's been running throughout our week post this event, Anne, is like, I loved this particular event because it validated my thoughts that I don't have to listen to everyone or listen to noise to be successful. I can also listen to myself and my own voice. And so get that coach, get that support group, get that friend in place that reminds you — we always need those reminders — you're good enough. You're working hard on what you do. You're doing the due diligence. And you're on a track that suits you, like just keeping you on track, right?   Anne: Absolutely, absolutely. And I think, I mean, we're our own worst enemies, aren't we? I mean, and even people such as myself, and Lau, I'm sure you would agree that even though we've been in the business, sometimes we even have our, we need our people too. We have our questions about, you know, and we need that guide. I need guidance every once in a while saying, Anne, so you're on the right path, it's okay. It’s going to be fine, don't worry about it, and that will help to reel me in.    But I think the whole writing the energy, taking action, writing notes, right, setting goals, and continually revisiting that and revisiting your people, whether it be online, whether it be in person, or a combination of both. I mean, I think both is amazing. And, you know, it's always like, people talk about that discussion about, online learning, do you like online learning or in person, which is more effective, right? And I think honestly, if you can have a combination of both, right? Because obviously I voice a lot for some online learning places. And so, but I've always been a fan of in person communication and in person growth and working and classes and sessions that are in person because you get a whole lot out of that. Yeah.   Lau: I got one more for the road. Here's my last goody for the road. My last goody is -- and this is my specialty, I always think of myself as an idea person. I always say I missed my calling, Anne. I should have worked for some advertising agency -- before you step in with your group, whether it's a conference or an accountability group, before you step in, have two or three ideas ready to go of how you can work with people. I naturally do that because that’s what energizes me. So before, for instance, before I podcast with Anne in the morning, I sit with my coffee and my smooth bossa nova jazz music. And I come up with not just helpful themes for the podcast itself, but how can Anne and I work together? How can we better each other's and grow each other's businesses? How can we energize and stir the pot of what we're doing? So I can come in and say, I’m excited. I have an idea. I have an idea. People love that, Anne.   And I don’t see that as much. I don't know if you do, but when I get together with people, they're working on their stuff, which is great. But very rarely do I say, I have an idea. Let's do this together. Let's make this happen. Let's form a group. Only a very small minority of people think in that way. You think in that way. I think in that way. I want the listeners to start thinking in that way. Create.   Anne: Yes. I love that you brought that up because I cannot tell you the amount of, the benefits that I have derived from working with other people and teaming up, teaming together with people on multiple things.   Lau: Invaluable.   Anne: Invaluable, teaming up.    Lau: Invaluable, and it spirals too.    Anne: Yeah, it does.   Lau: It's like my hair in the heat. It just keeps going up and up and up. It just spirals out of control.    Anne: Yeah, partnering.   Lau: It's like, it's that rabbit hole where you just go down and down and down and down, and you just keep coming up with more thoughts, more ideas. And that doesn't mean that they're all gonna pan out or they're all gonna be successful. It means you keep the cobwebs out of your brain and you keep your motors going so that as a business owner, someone could come to you and say, hey, I need ideas for this. You say, I don't know, and I'm not sure. Let me think about it. And they're like, no, I got ideas for you. Here we go, here's the first one. Here's the second one, here's the third one.   Anne: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Think of how you can team up with someone to do something amazing. I really think that that can help to also, as you go along with your own independent business of voiceover, you can be contributing greatly to, let's say, becoming a resource for the community or a community. It doesn't have to be the voiceover community, But gosh, there's so much talent out there in our industry. I mean, we could do just about anything. You know, it doesn't have to be contained for voiceover.    Think of people that you know and have gotten to know and that would be great at doing a lot of different things. I mean, probably every one of the people that I work with that's on my team, I have come to them because they've had a special skill that I don't have that I need and that I want and that I'm happy to pay them for because they help me to grow my business. And, you know, it could be a skill that isn't voiceover, right, but skill that could be video editing, audio, whatever it is, it doesn't have to be voiceover specific. Even team leading or groups that they're a part of that we can be like a referral network for each other. So it's really incredible the things that you can do when you team up and you ride on that energy and they can help you take action in your business.    So I ask all of you BOSSes to really just consider, consider partnering up with someone, getting your peeps together in a motivational, you know, accountability group and working together and writing things down and really taking action, taking action on the high and the motivation that you've gotten from in-person networking or online networking, whatever that is.   Lau: Yes, and finally, know the difference between the people that you can grow with, that are growth people and people that are not in that sphere. It doesn't mean they're not creative or they're not energized. It means they're in their own little private Idaho. They're good with what they're doing. They're not as interested in helping you or them grow specifically. They're happy with where they're at. Just kind of know the difference. Don't have the same expectations of every person. That was something a financial adviser I heard say and that kind of rocked my world. They said know who your growth people are, and she was specifically talking to the team that you're growing. Like some people are great for now but they're not going to help you grow. Other people are going to come in and they're growth people know the difference.   Anne: Growth people, if they're part of your team, by the way, you have to, you have to, you have to motivate your growth people appropriately, okay? As Gary Vaynerchuk says, you know, no one's gonna be as excited about your business as you. However, when there is motivation and there's inspiration and there's -- like I say, you always have to be like, what can I do to help you, right? When there's something in it for them as well, right? And it's obvious that you're not just about, oh, you're my employee, let me pay you. ‘Cause I don't have a lot of money, let me not, let me pay you the cheapest amount that I possibly can. My, you know, my team members, I mean, I pay them.    Because I think of myself, like, how is it that they're gonna promote me, right, in my business, when I'm not paying them what they're worth, or if I don't think they're worthy enough to pay a decent salary? And that's part of the motivation, that as well as, you know, constantly encouraging, referring, doing what I can to help them move their own careers forward. And sometimes that means letting them go too. Do you know what I mean? Because they've outgrown me. And that's okay. I mean, I love that actually.   Lau: Yeah, and you need to be their cheerleader, but they also need to be your cheerleader. So you want to train cheerleaders, in essence, to be growing one another. And if the growth is stopping and everything's dying or stagnant or going the wrong way, then you may not need to be together anymore. You still stay connected and be a great associate and always leave things on a really great note. So you could come to back together if you want to come back together. But know who your growth people are.    Anne: I love that. Know, if you take away anything guys, know who your growth people are and really take action on that inspiration, motivation that you get from your growth people, absolutely. Lau, thank you so much.   Lau: My pleasure, as always.   Anne: Yeah, so wonderful as always to chat with you about all these wonderful topics for BOSSes. And BOSSes, I am going to say that as individuals, as we were just talking about, it can seem difficult to make a big impact. But I tell you what, as a group, as we just saw, as we've been talking about all podcast, we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never even thought possible. Visit 100VoicesWhoCare.org to learn how and learn more. So big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. I love ipDTL. You guys can also love ipDTL and be BOSSes. Find out more at ipDTL.com. All right, guys. Have a great week. We'll see you next week. Bye.   Lau: Bye!