Voice acting is more than just a dulcet tone; it's about connecting, taking direction, and sometimes swallowing your pride. In this episode, we explore how frustrations in the booth can mirror challenges in personal and business relationships—choosing success over being right is an art in itself. We underscore the importance of humility and remaining teachable in an industry that demands constant evolution. Whether you're a newcomer to the mic or a veteran seeking to refresh your skills, this episode promises to arm you with insights and strategies to elevate your voiceover career. 00:01 - Intro (Host) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.
00:20 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss Superpower series. I'm your host, Ann Gangusa, and I'm here with my very special guest boss co-host Lau Lapides. Hey Lau, hey, Annie, how are you I? Am doing amazing. How about yourself? Wonderful? Happy New Year. Happy New Year to you too.
00:40 - Lau (Host) This is our first podcast since New Year's.
00:42 - Anne (Host) That's right. Right, you know I'm starting off the New Year with some new students and I have come across this before and I want to ask you if this has happened to you.
00:53 There are some students if they're just starting out and I know we've spoken about this before Sometimes you don't know what you don't know, and sometimes it's hard for you to hear what you sound like. And there are many students who come to me thinking that they don't need coaching and that they're fine. They just need to be able to create a demo and they sound fine. And people tell them that they have the best voice, and so I like to call them voiceover virtuosos, and I was just wondering if you've come across that as well, where you've had maybe talent that seemed to think that they don't need coaching, or that they're better than maybe they are, and I don't mean to be so bold to say that, but I'm not quite sure how else to explain it.
01:37 - Lau (Host) And this is a really tough kind of non-PC conversation because we want to be kind and have some etiquette, Absolutely, and be courteous. We're not here to rip people apart and make them feel bad about themselves. That's counterproductive to who we are and what we're here for right.
01:52 - Anne (Host) Right and actually Law. I remember when I first started I did not have an ear and I would think to myself I think I'm delivering what I'm supposed to be delivering. It sounds like what I hear out there in the other commercials, and so I don't hear where my coach is coming from. I don't understand their direction, I don't see what I'm doing wrong.
02:11 - Lau (Host) So I don't think I'm doing anything wrong, and so I understand it from that perspective, because, as a talent, I felt that way a little bit myself, and I think it could be a combination of all sorts of things, whether it's lack of resources, whether it's pure laziness, whether it's not having the ear, or it could even be that I don't know what I don't know.
02:33 - Intro (Host) I don't know what I don't know, like I don't know what I'm missing because I haven't done it yet.
02:37 - Lau (Host) I haven't done the training right.
02:39 - Anne (Host) Yeah, and I don't know what it's supposed to sound like.
02:42 - Lau (Host) And so how do I know if?
02:43 - Anne (Host) it's incorrect. And sometimes it ends up being where you're like I don't understand what my coach is saying, and then sometimes you'll question the coach. Even I've actually had some people question the coach. It's so interesting. It's such an interesting phenomenon.
02:58 - Lau (Host) It is an interesting phenomenon and it happens at all levels too that I observe. I had a coaching session for a client, a brand new client, on Saturday and a working actor a working voice actor clearly booking and booking a good ratio overall was frustrated. She wasn't getting the natural read and getting commercial bookings. Long story short, she's a pro, she's working no-transcript. After we did that hour she confessed. She said I have to be honest, law, my mind is a little blown because I didn't even think of any of this stuff. I didn't work on it. I said well, that's our reality. That's why we're always in professional development. Yeah, yeah, there's new ideas, new techniques, new ways of thinking about things that bring out Something in you that you simply can't do on your own. You're not able to do it on your own right.
03:46 - Anne (Host) Well, I think, when it comes down to it, you are providing a service to someone and you need to be able to be directed To the sound that they would like to have, right? There are lots of performances out there that are simply directed to how the person that's directing here's it in their head. Now, does that mean that it is, I don't know, that natural Conversational read that everybody asked for in the specs, because that just seems what everybody asked for a lot of times. No, I mean what comes out in production. It may not be that.
04:19 However, over and over again, casting directors and agents are looking for that read. And I think when you get to the level where you have an agent and you have casting directors that are asking for that, you need to bump up your acting to that level. And just because you're booking Over and over and over again, first of all, consider the source of where you're booking, consider the source of who you're booking with. It might be an e-learning gig, it might be a corporate gig, and they may not be as how shall I put it as Selective, yeah, of a director that's looking for that natural read. Now, myself as a coach law and you as a talent agent, I am always asking my students to give the most natural engaging acting performance, because that is the only way I know to teach my students to be able to have the Versatility to give a director what they want. No matter what they want, whether they want a commercially sounding read, an Announcement sounding read or a natural read and there's.
05:18 - Lau (Host) You know, you can't skip over the fact that there's a fun factor.
05:21 There's a performative fun factor that when you're working with a director or a coach or an outside party who's giving you suggestion, giving you food for thought, pulling things out of you, there should be a right keyword, should there should be this Excitement, this energy, this yeah, herb about doing that and making discoveries and having that audience with you.
05:42 And I think if you miss out on that, you say I don't need any, that I'm gonna skip over as much training as I can, I'm gonna save money. I think you're really skipping over a pivotal part of what makes us us that when we're in the booth alone and when we're doing our own self-tape or whatever we're doing, we can call upon those experiences. It's like a sense memory thing. I can remember what my coach said to me, I can remember how I was directed and then I hear their voice, like as an actor, I literally hear their voice and I can go with that. If I miss all of that, then I almost have to put a lot of stress on myself to create that, to inspire the creation. Yeah, you know what I mean.
06:25 - Anne (Host) I think there's a lot to be said for really knowing the director, or understanding the director that you're working with too, in terms of there's a lot of things that come into play here. Where is this going to air? Is it local versus regional, versus national? Is it going to be an internal website? And so understanding and being able to supply the read that the director is looking for is so very important, and I think that the more you develop your acting skills, the better you can understand that and be able to give that director what they're looking for and also understand, like, for example, I was just discussing with you earlier that I had a local political spot right, and, of course, they ended up putting a ton of verbiage into a 30 second spot, which is almost impossible at the speed.
07:17 I was going to sound natural and engaging and conversational, because I needed to step up the pace. I kind of knew that. I knew, okay, here's a local spot, I'm going to have to step up the pace a little bit. I'm not going to be able to give this person a natural read. They weren't asking for it either, though, and so they really just wanted certain words that were inflected properly, and just having the experience and understanding what they were looking for, I was able to provide it almost I'm going to say not immediately, because there really were too many words for the scripts that we did have to cut out a couple of words.
07:48 But once that happened I mean I had a good idea in the beginning of what they were looking for. And I think as you get more experienced in this field and you start working with different directors, you'll understand. You'll be able to kind of read a director and figure out what it is that they're looking for and then be able to adjust your performance appropriately. But you need to have those acting skills in order to be able to adjust your performance.
08:12 - Lau (Host) That really is what makes you the pro that you are, because it's not only about the talent and the delivery, it's also about the timing, how quickly you work.
08:21 Are you focused, like all the bad habits that we have as people in the world we have to train ourselves out of, and we need help doing that, because sometimes we're just not aware of them that I'm constantly looking at my cell phone to check messages, or I'm fixing my whatever, or I'm not listening, or I'm not acutely taking notes on what I'm hearing, and so that's really important too, to practice that, that taking direction.
08:48 Really, that could be the kiss of death for you. If you're not good at listening, if you're not accurate about interpretation, asking just the right question and giving them what they need, then you look like a time waster, then you look like someone who's just kind of like flailing around and costing a lot of money on the other end, versus someone who can get right to. You know, one of the bad habits that I have a number of actors that do this and voice over, that do this is they explain, they start to get into explanation mode, they start giving the narrative oh, I'm so sorry, and the apologies unnecessarily. I'm so sorry. I was only doing that because you know I was thinking about my mother and not understanding the difference between what is a coaching session and what is a casting session and what is a booking session and what are really the differences, you know, and not expecting something from the wrong person, like I can't expect feedback from casting, necessarily, or from a client necessarily.
09:44 Sure sure, you're either going to book me or they're not going to book me, right? So clients are busy, right? The coaches should be giving me the feedback that I'm looking for. So if you don't do the process, then you don't get the feedback, then you literally are in the dark. Yeah, what you're giving, right? What you're giving out.
10:00 - Anne (Host) It's also hard to and again, we're not trying to shame anybody or make people feel bad.
10:04 It's just simply when you are first starting out and you're questioning. But here I feel like I sound. I sound better than that commercial, I sound better than that person. Again, developing an ear and I think there's a whole scientific process to it as well is what you hear in your head and what you hear in your headphones. If you have your headphones on and you're delivering something or you're recording something is very different than what somebody else is hearing on the other side of the glass.
10:30 I should say across the pond, across the pond on the other side of the glass, because on the other side of the glass they have their own ideas as to what they are looking for. That sound to be like Right and you always want to assume that if they've given you casting specs where they want it to sound natural, like you're talking to your friend Right? There's so many things to take into consideration. Yes.
10:53 And first of all, I'm going to say there are some clues. If it's probably someone who's been in the business for a long time, I think you can bet on the fact that they're going to be able to tell you if you're sounding natural and authentic. And also sometimes, if all they do is automotive commercials, what is it? Tier 3? Cliff Zellman would know this. Tier 3, tier 1. Tier 3 automotive commercials. That's typically a high powered cell. You'll also be able to tell a little bit by how it's written. So I think there are clues that you can research before you're in the middle of that session and also understand that when you're in a live directed session, just like you said, that can be entirely different than when you're in a coaching session. And so when you're in a coaching session with a trusted coach okay, it has to be a trusted coach, and again, that's hard for people that are just coming into the industry who's a trusted coach? Well, there's lots of ways to find that out and I think we probably have a couple of episodes on that.
11:46 How do you know, like, who to coach with? And a lot of times, word of mouth will be one of your best bets on that, and also testimonials and ask around and talk to potential coaches to see what's their experience level. Do they work in the industry? I'm not saying all coaches need to work in the industry in terms of do they need to do voiceover. There's very few out there that are good that they're not actually voice artists, but they're actors, they're teachers who teach acting as well. But also, if you've got a coach that works in the industry, that's going to be helpful too. And if you're new, just because you're frustrated and that's a big thing law that I see is that people get so frustrated and when they don't understand well, I don't understand what you're asking for, or I don't understand what I'm doing wrong, or you're not.
12:34 - Intro (Host) And they start to argue and they say you are not.
12:36 - Anne (Host) I don't understand your direction, and so they'll start to put the blame on the fact that there's not good direction. Now, sometimes there isn't good direction, right, sometimes there just isn't if you're not with somebody who may have been in the industry for a while and is good, which is why I don't love pure lead workout groups law only because I don't either. When you're listening to direction from another peer, who may not have enough experience.
13:00 - Lau (Host) that may set you on the wrong path, in a way though, annie, isn't it good in the sense that you're going to get bad direction at times? Yes, you really are Like we can't assume that. Oh, they're professional, they're a company, they're going to give us great direction. Sometimes you're being directed by Jim in Cubicle C who knows nothing Absolutely. It's kind of an interesting improv exercise to learn how to say yes and learn how to say oh. That's interesting, okay, let me try that. Oh, how, wow, okay, and you're thinking what? That's ridiculous. I don't even know how he came up with that.
13:32 - Anne (Host) That's half my directed session. That's your whole world.
13:35 - Lau (Host) But the point is that's the reality, right. We have to deal with that Absolutely. We have to be able to tolerate that and you have to be able to deliver and not argue.
13:41 - Anne (Host) Not argue it Not question that you have to be able to deliver what they're asking for and, by the way, anybody that coaches with me, of course you can give me the read that you hear in your head, but that's not the read I'm looking for and even if the script doesn't seem like that's what it's written for. That's the biggest argument I get is people are like but the script isn't written that way and I'm like I don't care.
14:00 The worst thing is that you'll get a script that's written very advertising, very selly, and then you'll get the specs that say give me something like you're talking to your best friend, and then, ultimately, my student will deliver it the way it's written and very advertising and very annoncery and other things. But that's not what I asked you for, but that's not how it's written. I'm like that doesn't matter. I'm asking you to give me a very engaged read and that is a very tough read and one of the reasons why I insist on that is because if you can get yourself to that level, to a very engaged, authentic read, when it's written very advertising, very selly, that's going to get your acting skills Up to the level that I think you need to be able to give versatility.
14:43 - Lau (Host) Yeah. And ask yourself this question, which really we could ask ourselves in a lot of situations like being married. I've been married 23 years. Sometimes I literally have to self direct and say, all right, do you really want to argue that? Do you really? Is it that important to argue that? Do you want to be right, yeah, or do you want to have a happy marriage? So, in terms of your business relationships, do I always want or need to be right, yeah, yeah, absolutely or do I really want to have success in this connection? And I choose the latter. I try very hard to choose the latter. By the way, did you see that catch of the light falling over? That's my theater experience.
15:21 - Anne (Host) I don't know if you caught that. No, I didn't, it was falling right on me.
15:24 - Lau (Host) I was making a point, I put it right there. That's kind of like the metaphor of life. You always have things falling on you, right, but it's just kind of like is it more important to have it perfect or is it more important to have it done? Just get it done, please, the client, have that callback for the next job. It's not that important that I make the point that the script is wrong.
15:46 - Anne (Host) Oh God, absolutely. That's the last thing you want to do.
15:47 - Lau (Host) That's what I'm trying to say we never answered that funny question at the top about how do we deal with all the talent that come in and they really kind of think they're ready for certain things they're not ready for.
16:01 - Anne (Host) Well, and then there's always the difficult position. If they think that they don't need additional coaching or additional sessions, then they think that you're trying to take advantage of them.
16:11 - Lau (Host) Oh, of course, and make money, yeah, to make money, that's right.
16:15 - Anne (Host) I mean, look, I guess you just have to know who you're working with and there is a level of trust you have to have. And again, it's so hard for people that are just starting out in the industry and we always emphasize to see if you click with your coach, Trust your gut instincts as well about your coach. I'm going to say and I'm going to say that, like if you don't know the industry and if you start questioning your coach, then it becomes like is that a relationship that you want to continue? If you're?
16:44 at that level where you're questioning if what they're saying to you is correct, exactly.
16:49 - Lau (Host) And if all else fails, you have to do what we used to do in the theater when we'd go to see our friends in a really bad show and a really bad performance, and they'd always come out backstage and go what did you think of it? Did you like it? I was like great, I worked hard. You have to think diplomatically. What would you really say to them? And we would have a ball coming up with things like. That was interesting. You really challenged yourself. I was moved. I mean, you really surprised me there, right?
17:19 So you have to think about how do you respond to people that really need a lot more. They need more training, they need more time, they need a better demo. And they're like oh, I just spent 3,000 on this demo. You telling me I suck. I'm like no, I'm saying this is your starter demo. This is your first demo. It's a process demo. It's good for what it is. Now you want to get to the next level of things. It's not about yes, no, right, wrong. It's not structurally black and white in that way. It's much shades of gray shades of gray nuance, nuance, nuance. You know what I mean? Absolutely. And the talent has to realize that it's not. You're good and it's done, or you're not good and it's not done.
18:00 - Anne (Host) Gosh, that's so true. It's not like, okay, I'm good, I have my demo, I'm good, I'm ready, I'm ready, I don't need any additional training. I'm constantly telling my students actors spend their lives honing their craft. Yes, I feel as though, like if you're thinking about like Meryl Streep, do you think Meryl Streep achieved her acting from the get-go, from the very beginning? Has she not, over the years, improved, taken on more challenging roles and just really challenged herself?
18:28 And I think that, as voice actors, we all need to do that, whether you're just starting out even if you get booking after booking, after booking after booking and again understand who your client is. If you're doing a lot of e-learning, you may not have a very demanding client. They may just want you to read it nicely and articulately. But when your coach says to you, please do not just read it to me, I want to feel as though you're my teacher, I want to be able to listen to you for the next two hours and be engaged, then understand there's a reason why they're saying that and maybe not question that and say, well, it's good enough, because I think to really get to the upper echelon right, to make it and to be successful, it takes time.
19:12 It does, and I think there should be a whole episode of like how long does it take? I know I've done it before, but I feel like it bears with eating. Yeah, and there has to be. It can take more than a year and honestly, it should take more than five or six sessions with a coach to be a good actor. Goodness gracious. No, it takes much longer than that.
19:31 - Lau (Host) Absolutely, absolutely. And just know that there has to be an element, or there should be an element, of humility and being humble and having some modesty about your work. I always have a red flag If I work with people that they're very egocentric and they're all that. They're great. You should recognize that I feel like the best actors talent colleagues I know are people that have value. They recognize their confidence level, their self-esteem. But there's a lot more to learn.
20:01 There's always there always so humble I think there isn't that sense of like. You're talking to me. You know who you're talking to. I'm a pro. I always have a red flag about that, because I feel like they've stopped their process.
20:13 - Anne (Host) They stopped their learning, they stopped their growth, they stopped their learning.
20:16 - Lau (Host) Yeah, they stopped their growth and they're going to challenge you. They're going to question you, they're going to argue with you, they're going to take it up with you if you don't agree with their mindset, and so I think they're going to be harder to direct harder to work with. Yes, yes, yes. So I think it all goes hand in hand. It's like be kinder, be more open and modest, be a little bit. I'm not saying be insecure about who you are.
20:37 I'm saying have security, have confidence, have joy about who you are and what you're doing, but also leave a lot of space for growth and development and discovery. You have to have humility in order to do that. You can't think you've done it all and know it all and are ready for everything. None of us are ready for everything, yeah.
20:55 - Anne (Host) Yeah, agreed, agreed. And also, when you are challenged from your coach right, and there's something that you're not agreeing with, try to keep an open mind. I think that's the one thing that we can ask of you as an actor try to keep an open mind about what they're saying. So try not to take it so personally, number one, like when somebody is telling you that this is not. I don't think a coach will say, oh, that was horrible. But there are some that might say, oh God, no, no, no, no, no. Let's try that again, and it might be, really fighting with your confidence level.
21:30 So really just try to. When you're being challenged by your coach, try to keep an open mind, try to not take it personally, and I know it's so difficult to do that because to me it's like, oh my God, like you're telling me, I'm not good, and that's the first thing that comes into my head. I'm like, oh my God, I'm not good, I'm not good.
21:47 - Intro (Host) And so then that just ruins the next read.
21:50 - Lau (Host) It's a catapult and don't explain. Yeah, don't narrate, don't explain, don't justify, don't do any of those things, because it's not a blame game. It's a time to give more information and more detail. And then on our side, we promise, annie, and I promise not to say things like don't quit your day job.
22:09 - Anne (Host) Exactly, exactly, unless it's a joke unless it's a complete joke and that you're aware of it, of course.
22:14 - Intro (Host) But yeah, I basically don't say that.
22:16 - Anne (Host) But I am tough, I don't want to waste my student's time and I don't want to waste my time, and so if a read is not going the way that I like it, I will say nope, nope, I'm going to stop you right there and let's pick it up again. I'm not going to have you go through an entire read and then I'll say no, because, first of all, I think that for a lot of the work I do, it's long reads anyways, it's long format, and so it's better if I stop at the point where I can make a teaching moment and the student can learn from it at that particular time. But sometimes people will get discouraged by that and it's such a tough thing it really is Because, again, what we do is so personal.
22:54 And if a coach is continually stopping. Nope, nope, that's not it. Nope, that's not it. Okay, I don't believe you, I don't feel that You're not connected, and that's what you can look for with your coach.
23:04 - Lau (Host) Right, how does your coach respond to you, give you feedback, give you critique? Do they lose their temper? Are they getting angry? Are they getting irritated? Is it taken personally? I mean, just start looking for that.
23:14 - Intro (Host) Right.
23:14 - Lau (Host) Some people love that. I've had people come to me and say look, be tough on me, S&M style, rip me apart. I'm tough and you know, the funny thing is the first thing I say they fall to pieces because I can be really tough and they're like Really, Are you really think that I'm like? I thought I could be tough, so? But I mean, I think that there's a professional barrier there. Yeah, absolutely, that you have to pay attention to just as a best practices protocol. Yeah, you don't want people tearing you down. You don't want people making you feel bad about being a person and what you're doing and the choice that you're making in your career. You want someone to say I'm going to make the leap of faith and assume you want to be doing this, You're going to get good at this and you care about it. Now let me take you to the next level of where you're at.
23:58 - Anne (Host) I work with people all the time because long format narration right, and it's tough. Yeah, I work with people at a very intense level and so it's frustrating. People think they're going to get it by tomorrow and it's one of those things. It's no, it's just really difficult. I really ask a lot of my students and so there are a lot of times my students will get very frustrated and they will start to take things very personally. But it is not that at all for me.
24:22 I mean, I'm an educator and anybody that's worked with me knows my heart of hearts is to educate and that is what I try to do. And even though it is very tough sometimes then it becomes like not only am I educating on the acting part of it, but then there's the whole mentality part of it where you've got the added oh gosh, now I'm hurt, right. Or I've instructed somebody, I've given them direction and they have now taken it personally, and so that then is also affecting their retake or their read again, and so there's a lot of things that can build up. So just know that if you've got a good coach that's working with you, their intent is to really make you a better actor. I think that's something that your gut intuition can really tell you a lot about that.
25:05 - Lau (Host) Yeah, and be honest with yourself.
25:07 Like, take a checkpoint and say how much honesty am I willing to take? Can I put on a little bit of armor and be able to take the truth? I've had a lot of people say law, just be truthful with me. I'd appreciate it, because they're spending money and they're spending time, and so truth does not mean like kick my butt. It does not mean like rip me to shreds. It means be truthful about what your perception is, so that I can get better. That's all it is. You know what I mean. Absolutely. I love this Great conversation.
25:37 - Anne (Host) Yes, law. Oh, my goodness, wonderful conversation. So, bosses out there, we know, we know you can do it, but I want you to just give yourself some grace, listen to your gut and really find a trusted coach that you can work with and work through all of this, because it's not something that's simple and, more than likely, if you haven't been doing this for a few years now, you may not be as good as you think you are, and I mean that in the nicest way possible, I mean that in the most teacher-centric way possible. So give it a shot, guys. All right, yeah. So take a moment and imagine a world full of passionate, empowered, diverse individuals giving collectively and intentionally to create the world that they want to see. You can make a difference and you can find out how at 100voiceswhocareorg. Also, big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too, can connect to network like bosses. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. See you next week, bye, bye.
26:42 - Intro (Host) See you next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, ann Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.
27:09 - Anne (Host) Hey bosses, woohoo, I'm so excited to announce our third audition demolition coming up live September 27th and our uh, it died. Ugh. Oh, all right, damn it. Good morning, kiss me off. Kiss me off. That was good. I didn't know. F***ing sh**. Audition deadline the 20th. Okay, september 27th, all right, that's my problem. I just don't have it in front of my face, so that'll end up with bloopers.