VO BOSS

Have you deconstructed the pay-to-play algorithm? We haven't either, but we're close! In this episode, Anne & Laya discuss the evolution of P2P's from a talent-client connection tool to the modern algorithmic matching game. They share how to use P2P's as a learning tool, how to build them into your business model, and why they have such a polarizing reputation… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza along with my very, very special guest cohost Laya Hoffman. Laya: Hey Anne. Anne: Good morning, Laya. How are you? Laya: Good morning. It's chilly and the a -- in the dirty south, but I'm hanging in there. Glad to be back talking with you, of course. We always have such great conversations these days. I'm loving it. Anne: Yeah. That we do. And I wanted to kind of talk a little bit. We had talked last episode about casting, and we touched upon pay-to-plays -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- and that's always such a big topic in the voiceover land. Laya: Sure is. Anne: And I thought that it would be something that we could talk about today and just share our experiences that we've had, successes, I don't know, fails. Yeah. Let's let's chat about pay-to-play, shall we? Laya: We shall. I have quite a bit of experience. I think I have like a modern mindset perspective on pay-to-plays. So it'd be a great fit for our theme, right? Anne: Let's go from the old mindset first, because I -- Laya: Okay. Anne: -- back in the day, I swear it was like back in 2000-something when Voice123 came onto the scene. I was an early, early adopter of that. Laya: As was I. Anne: Yep, and I remember having quite a bit of success with Voice123. I actually really loved the model because it allowed me to upload all my demos and samples and basically get job opportunities from different clients. And there was basically no interference. I got to have the opportunity from the client, communicate with the client, book a job with a client. And then actually a lot of times the client would just then come to me without necessarily having to go through Voice123 for the next job. So I kind of liked that. It was a win situation I think for all of us because I paid a membership fee to Voice123, and I got my job. And then every once in a while, if I had repeat clients, they would come back to me, not necessarily having to go through Voice123, but it wouldn't have even mattered to be honest with you, because if they favorited me, they didn't have to audition again. So it just worked out really well. And it has certainly evolved over the years. It's been a good 15 or so years now of pay-to-plays being on the scene. There are so many more of them. Laya: Yeah. Anne: But I found them to be extremely lucrative in the beginning when I started. And now I've got a different opinion, but let me hear about your -- let's hear about your experience -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- in the beginning with pay-to-plays. Laya: Yeah, I feel the same way. I mean, as we've mentioned before, you know, I really only dove in full time about three years ago, but I'd always been doing voice work. And I was an early adopter of Voice123 as well. I've been a member since 2011, so over 10 years. And that was just back when it was kind of toying with this cool, you know, I mean, everything on the web seemed to be fresh and new. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And they were among the first to kind of harness the power of connecting talent with buyers. Right? And so how great. They made it easy, they kind of one-stop shopped it, and they didn't get in your way. And the price was fair because there wasn't a whole lot of reach. Anne: Yeah. Laya: I mean, we all know how this has evolved over the last few years, especially. It's been a different experience for a lot of people, but I had the same experience you did early on. And then I kind of went dormant for several years. Didn't really put a whole lot of effort in, but on occasion I would still get hit up even with my like really crappy samples back then. I didn't know what I was doing. And so it was kind of a nice lead source, right? Lead gen for me. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Laya: And I think it was for a lot of people. So I'm glad you share the same sentiment. Anne: Yeah. Now, I think it's fair to say that any pay-to-play, no matter what, seems to be a game of having really great demos and not just one of them uploaded on a pay-to-play. Laya: Yeah. Anne: I think all of the pay-to-plays subscribed to that. The more samples that you have -- because it's all a matching game. It's all a search algorithm and a matching game. And that's kind of like the secret of Google, but in pay-to-plays, right? Laya: Yeah, yeah. Anne: We all were trying to debug the algorithm so that we could get the opportunities sooner and faster and get more of those either likes or stars on the system. And I just remember probably going back maybe close to eight to ten years ago, people started then having classes on here's how to optimize your experience, right? Or this is what you want to -- kind of like how to optimize your profile on a pay-to-play. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So for BOSSes out there, I want to say that pay-to-plays are absolutely a part of this industry. They're not going away anytime soon. Laya: Nope, that's right. Anne: And I do believe that they are part of your opportunities that you need to look out for when you are trying to get business and grow your voiceover business. Laya: Yeah. I would agree with you, Anne, and I actually -- you know, there is such a negative connotation about pay-to-plays, whether people are on -- I will wrap the Fiverrs of the world into the pay-to-play model, just because in a way you are optimizing a profile. Anne: Yup. Laya: You're using somebody else's house to promote your business -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- as opposed to just doing it yourself on your own website, your own LinkedIn page, et cetera. But I think no matter how you cut your marketing pie and your opportunity pie, you got to eat from each of those sections, especially in the beginning just to get your footing. Right? Anne: Absolutely. Laya: Just to kind of understand what is out there, what types of reads suit you best, where you sit. I mean, I said it on a previous episode and it's absolutely true, although I'm not entirely proud of it. Early on the pay-to-plays to me were practice ground. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And I know that's not the popular way to think of those things because you are putting yourself out there, and it's important that you do so with dignity and grace and respect and present a professional profile, no matter what, but that's how I learned some things -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- in the privacy of my home, in my studio, in my mic, my Skid Row Studios. Anne: And you know what I understand the thought process of here you are putting yourself out there and maybe you're not putting yourself out there with the best foot forward, but at some point you do have to put yourself out there, and your very first time that you put your voice out there, it's not going to be optimal. And so I think where else, right? Whereas I think a better place -- and I'm not saying that you're going to learn, I think probably more by doing it in kind of an open marketplace, and here's the deal. There's always, there's always clients out there. Right? Laya: Yeah. Anne: And so the one client that might hear your sample and says, "oh, you know, that's not up to par" or maybe they hear your audition, and they're like, "oh no, that's not" -- I mean, the one thing that you don't want is maybe a negative rating because that will hurt you on the pay-to-plays. You don't want to have people -- Laya: For sure. Anne: -- saying things, but I don't think in the normal run of things that somebody's gonna rate you -- well, they might rate you poorly or write a note and say, well, I would never hire this person. Laya: No. Anne: I think that in the grand scheme of things, that doesn't happen, and I would consider it an investment in your business, an investment to finding out here are the types of jobs that are available out there and get yourself used to the different styles. I think once you've coached, you've created your demos, and you're not actively out there coaching, you may not see the current relevant scripts or styles that are out there and being hired. So I think that's -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- so important to do that. So I think pay-to-plays are definitely something that you should have in your toolbox. And like you said, you're paying to play in someone else's house. I prefer always to have the control in my house, but you know, when you're first starting, I think you have to just create as many opportunities as you can. Laya: Yeah. I would agree with that. And the other thing I like about pay-to-plays that I don't think we talk enough about is the opportunity to learn from others. You know, you can go onto voices.com, not as a member and not have a profile yourself -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and just learn from the top tier talent that are booking every week. You know, they've got their top tens in female, in male, top 100 this month, you know, biggest earners, top 10. And you can go scrub through those profiles -- Anne: Listen. Yup. Laya: -- and learn by listening -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and by reading how they optimize or how they describe their voice or vocal tone, some of their capabilities, some of their sound-alikes, you know, and that in itself, I think every profile on every one of these pay-to-play opportunities, there is something to learn there, if you're willing to take the time with open eyes and an open mind to really see what everyone else is bringing to the table. And that way you can learn, whether you're a VO pro or you're a novice, there's always something to learn from these sites. So if we can scrub off the negative connotation on these and really just use them as a learning vehicle, whether it's a practice vehicle or just learning by watching and listening, then there's definitely something to gain whether you're a member or not. Anne: Yeah. And speaking of the negative connotations for, I dunno, BOSSes just starting out in the industry, there are some online casting pay-to-plays that do not have the best of reputations. And I think if you were to research any of the voiceover groups and do a search for the particular name of the pay-to-play that you might be researching, you'll find lots and lots and lots of discussion about that. Laya: Yes. Anne: And I think it becomes a personal decision. So just in a nutshell, some of the pay-to-plays have been found to be maybe unscrupulous, maybe some business practices that may not align with what others may think as being ethical. And so I think it really, it really comes down to you. This is your business and you choose who you want to do business with. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So I would say before you invest in any of the pay-to-plays, make sure you're doing some research on which ones you're interested in and see what other people are saying. There's a lot of people saying a couple of these are definitely not practicing ethical business practices. So if you want to align yourself with that business or not, I think that's a personal decision. Laya: I would agree with that. And you brought up a great point. I don't think enough VO talent use that search resource within voiceover specific groups on Facebook, for instance. You can literally type in Voice123 -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- or Voices or Fiverr or any -- VO Planet, any of the names, the big names. Before you buy your membership, do yourself a favor and scrub those pages, those groups for those keywords, because everybody has done the -- done the work for you. Anne: Yup. Laya: Trust me, there's probably a million, and everybody's got an opinion, you know. Anne: Sure do. Laya: Form your own by reading and taking it with a grain of salt, reading between the lines a little bit, because that's not for us to just go -- we can spend months talking about that. Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: And then we're not here for that. Just as a guide to say, there are resources out there that'll give you a look behind the curtain -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and plenty of conversations around this. And again, just do what's best for your business. So I'm happy to share what I've done that's best for mine, if you want to talk about it or we can dive in a little bit. Anne: Yeah, well, I think one thing I just want to tap off of what you just said is it is all about your business. And I always have my favorite saying, and that is mind your own business, not -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- you know, not into additional sense of, but you need to mind your own business and what's good for you in terms of how you want to invest, how you want to align yourself, how you're going to get those job opportunities, because you know, voiceover is an amazing career. However, it's not an amazing career when you don't have any jobs. So -- Laya: Yeah, yeah. Anne: -- this is a major component of that. And I'll just start off by saying currently now over the years, I've evolved. Thankfully, gratefully I've evolved where I have a nice customer base. I have a nice set of returning customers. I do some direct marketing, and we had talked about that previously as well. And I am a member of a couple of pay-to-plays. However, I'm gratefully busy enough that I don't have time to always audition for them, but they remain in my pocket for times when maybe the job opportunities are on the low side so that I can always, oh, let me go ahead and audition for this. Let's see what happens. Laya: Right. Anne: So I have some good experiences with a couple that I feel are aligned with my business, ideals and practices, and they kind of sit there at the ready for me. Laya: And I think not only are they a resource to tap into when you need them or when you've got a little extra time, especially as you evolved your voiceover business. I'm kind of getting to the same point as well. And I'm super grateful for that. Anne: Yup. Laya: But I also keep those profiles optimized -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- and present because their SEO beats the heck out of mine. Anne: Yup, well, absolutely. Laya: And I can never put as much advertising into my own business to outweigh the SEO that, let's say, a Voice123 does. They put all their money into that. And they really own the market share in a lot of ways. Now, there are some talent, yourself as one of them, that have incredible SEO and have managed to really make huge leaps and bounds in that area. But for me, who doesn't spend a lot of money or time optimizing my personal site, not as much as I probably could, I use them for a search. You know, I'm just another great voice that they can find in search as part of the -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- bigger marketplace of buyers looking. Anne: Well, have you seen, if you do a Google search for anything voiceover, the first results that show up are all the voiceover pay-to-plays. Laya: Yes. Anne: And that's because every member has some form of the word voiceover in their profile -- Laya: Yup, that's right. Anne: -- we -- you -- Laya: We've done it. Anne: -- probably couldn't pay enough. Although Fiverr has certainly paid, like I remember, gosh, they've been paying Google ads forever for voiceovers. So if you search for anything voiceover, one of the top results that will show up is Fiverr. So it is an SEO kind of search game. And just as you said, as you optimize your profile -- which that was always a key element, a key strategy. When you are part of a pay-to-play, you want to make sure that you have a profile that is searchable and that can show up when -- when a client wants to find a voice that is compassionate or has experience in, let's say, healthcare or technical. So you want to make sure that that profile is optimized to react to those searches. And there are lots and lots of classes on these and that you can take, if you want some help with that. Laya, I think you mentioned to me before you had taken a class on how to optimize your profile for pay-to-plays. Laya: Yeah, I sure did. You know, I, it's a tough thing to talk about yourself. When you really put your fingers on the keyboard and you really have got to start to identify what your sample sound is described as, or how do you talk about yourself as a -- from a bio? Anne: Sure. Laya: Do you -- is it first person? Is it third person? That sometimes can be a really big block for us creatives because I'm not a copywriter. And certainly I could tell somebody else what they sound like, but it's really hard to narrow down in your own mind what your samples sound like -- Anne: Oh, so true. Laya: -- and how they stack against anybody else that might be in your same space. And so I found a really great resource in two fellow voice talent, Katherine Toll, and Natasha Marchesky. I hope I'm pronouncing her last name correctly, but they do a service. I think it's called VO Pros or -- Anne: V123 Pros, I believe. Laya: Yeah. V123 Pros. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And they offered like a, a short course and it was peer-led. Of course they were helping us with that and really trying to figure out how to curate and cultivate keywords that made sense for your voice print. And everyone got to participate together, listening to each other's and then providing feedback. I found that to be incredibly eyeopening because it is so hard to describe your own voice. Anne: Sure, sure. Laya: So that's where I started. And then it was so beneficial and so eye opening to me because of course, I am a member of Voice123 and Voices, and I was able to apply those same key words not just on my pay-to-play profiles but on my own website. Anne: Website. Laya: Yeah, and so that, I was able to use that information a plethora of ways. And I was so impressed by the process, I actually hired those two talented ladies to optimize my profile one-on-one and just let me take my hands off the wheel because we were going to crash, and it really paid off. So yeah. Anne: It does help. It does help to have another set of ears listening -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- to you and helping to brand you. I mean, that's just every day when I'm working with students that I'm vocally branding them -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- because it's very hard to brand yourself, as you mentioned. Laya: Yes, it is. Anne: And it does help to have others' ears and eyes. And I'll tell you what, one of the most popular podcasts, by the way, BOSS podcasts to this date even is Bad-Ass BOSS Bios. Laya: Oh yeah. Anne: So you can check that out. Yeah. Do a search on that. We have a template that can help you to write your bio. This bio was intended for everything, your website, profiles, and it's how to write your bio better. And those BOSSes out there that are thinking of parallel income streams and multiple passion-preneurs that you are, if you're good at writing, and you're good at writing bios, here's a nice side business for you. Laya: Yeah, it is. Oh my gosh. Anne: Because so many people just don't know what to write or it's very difficult. And so that I would say is a great little sideline business. Laya: Oh, I love that. Yeah. I might need the template myself, because it is, it's hard to kind of present yourself to the world. You know, you get nervous, you get a little anxious, and you want to make sure that you're using, of course, proper punctuation -- Anne: Sure, absolutely. Laya: -- and the right descriptive words, and you're not totally over yourself or underselling yourself. Anne: Yeah. Laya: That's a big thing too. And so I loved what they were able to curate for my voiceprint. And I've applied that, like I said, to not only my profiles, but my website -- Anne: Yep. Laya: - so much, so is as soon as we flipped the switch on my profile, and it was optimized fully, I got hit up directly by a very, very nice paying client without even auditioning. So it essentially paid for itself. And that was a win for me. Now, I know that's, you know, maybe not the case in every situation, but that really took a big burden off of my shoulders. Anne: Sure. Laya: And like we talked about earlier, you know, if you can't do it, outsource it, and those, those two really helped me out. So that was one way to win on pay-to-plays for me. But I found some other ways over the years too. So. Anne: Well, I do want to make a mention that even if you're not a member of the pay-to-play or we'll just go back and retouch on this topic. If it wasn't evident before, go ahead and create a profile, a free profile -- Laya: Oh yeah. Anne: -- because that just helps you in terms of -- the more SEO you can get online, the better. Laya: Yep. Anne: So if you can create a free profile, I say, go ahead. I mean, it just makes you available and out there on more search engines. So definitely make sure that you're creating those profiles. I think I had a free profile on a couple of them, and I got direct inquiries from them. So, and I got jobs -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- without even necessarily having to belong to the pay-to-play. So that was always a good thing. Laya: That's right. Yeah, sure is, Anne. And I don't think people realize that enough. They're like, God, I got to pay for a membership? Anne: Yup. Laya: Well, yes. And I would say this. For me, my business strategy is if there is going to be an opportunity where I'm going to invest, I want to invest all in at this -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- point in my business. Anne: Sure. Laya: I want that premium or that platinum level membership. Because even if, like you mentioned, even if I'm not contributing and doing the auditions on a regular basis, that's going to optimize my visibility to be the cream of the crop when other buyers are looking for voices. So while I may not be active on these sites, at least my profile is hitting -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- the first rung in search. And I find that in itself to be a huge value and actually pay for the cost of, you know, the party. Right? Anne: Right, right. Laya: So if you can even get one client out of that, then you may have paid for your year subscription or whatever. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Laya: And that's something to consider. Anne: Now, you mentioned that there are different levels and that is something -- of these pay-to-plays -- that is something that as of late, right, all of the pay-to-plays, I believe, have kind of taken on this -- well, okay. There was a one membership fee that, you know, for many years you paid one membership fee. And then eventually over the years, I think the majority of them started creating these levels of membership. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And so I think that's where it started for me to really think, whoa, now I see where -- before it was just like, oh, okay. A membership, you know, they make a profit, I get jobs. I make a profit. And I felt like we were on a level playing ground. Then when pay-to-plays became, I don't know, maybe the voiceover industry grew, and they became more competitive with one another. And then they started creating these levels. I thought, huh, I see. I wonder how these levels are actually working, because here's the deal. I love having control over my business. So when somebody is playing around with an algorithm, right -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- and saying, okay, if you pay another amount, you're going to get listed higher in the search engines or you'll get the jobs earlier. Then it really, I start really thinking about, well, I have no control over how they're judging when I'm getting an audition or not. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And will I be first on the list? But it became this kind of race to buy the platinum memberships or buy the high level memberships that would get you the auditions quicker so that you could get the opportunities quicker. And I think for a while, it actually was something that worked for some people. And I think some people, they did not see results. And so all that kind of discussion that started happening made me start to question, okay, so how are these working? My technical brain, 'cause you know, I used to work in technology, started spinning and saying, oh, what are they really doing to get me better opportunities? So I did join a platinum level back in the day. And I did find that I got more opportunities. However, I was so busy that I couldn't take advantage of it as much, which was silly because I paid a lot of money. But I do believe that up to a certain point, paying for those levels and upgrading those levels does give you a better shot. However, I don't know how much control you have over that. I don't know, Laya. Laya: Yeah. Anne: What are your thoughts about that? Laya: You know, I feel the same way. It's really, it feels icky, right, when anybody's got their hand out or in your pocket, and you're a solo-preneur. Anne: Yeah. Laya: You're -- you own your business. And every bit of that investment needs to kind of be cross-checked. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: And if you're not getting the value, and that's not working for your business model, then you know, it's not for you. And that's okay. None of these solutions are for everybody. Anne: Sure. Laya: As far as the tiers go for me, there was a point in my career that I had the time, that I wasn't seeing a unique opportunities for my agents, and that the marketing efforts weren't bringing in as regular of bookable opportunities as I would have liked. I was on some production houses, et cetera. But so I really leaned into those, into Voice123 primarily, but Voices as well. And you know, I think what's interesting about those is I did notice a huge change when up-leveled as far as opportunities. I also got a lot of direct bookings that way. Anne: Myself too. Laya: Yep. And then private invites, if you're on Voices, by some of account managers. And I think it, depending on if you can book them will depend on whether or not those costs are justified. Anne: Sure. Laya: I personally saw a huge increase. And so I stayed at those levels. Now, I've since dropped down because the opportunities in my business is just busier, just like you mentioned, and I don't have time to audition, but I still do prefer more visibility from those premium levels on those sites. Anne: Sure. Laya: If I'm going to be there, I want to be at the top, and it's paid off in different ways. It's very hard to really gauge it. And you're a numbers person too. You're technical. Anne: Yep. Laya: So you want to- -- Anne: Oh, yeah. Laya: -- you want to see the ROI. Anne: Oh, definitely. Laya: It's very hard to gauge, but if you've been on them long enough and you've made a jump either up or down, I think it's pretty clear that the opportunities go where the levels do. And it's unfortunate they're doing that, but hey, they're business just like we are. Anne: Absolutely. And I think it's important to include them as opportunities. And now of course, I also include them for opportunities because I like to consider myself an educator in this industry. And so for me, it's also, it's an investment in an experience, right? So I can't tell you how many times, I mean, I've wanted to just join all of the pay-to-plays because I want to have that individual experience that I can then share with my students or share with people in the industry to say, here's my experience, because you know, we all like to help each other and lift each other up -- Laya: Yep. Anne: -- in this game. So I'm never one to judge anymore about which pay-to-play. That was a thing too, where there was like some public shaming if -- Laya: Yep. Anne: -- if you belong to one or another. But again, I'm of the thought that we should mind our own businesses and look, who am I to judge someone else if they're going to put food on the table. Laya: And that's just -- Anne: That's just not -- Laya: Yep, that's right. Anne: -- my thing. Laya: That's what it comes down to. And one of the things I heard out there, and again, we don't want to get into it, but is that some agents wouldn't sign you on -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- if you had placement on some of these pay-to-plays. Anne: I had heard too. Laya: That's something to consider if that's part of your end game strategy. Anne: Yep, yeah. Laya: For me, I want to be with a partner that has my best interest and -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- sometimes, if they can't feed me, I got to eat somewhere. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Laya: So until they can fully pay my entire mortgage and put food -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- on my family's table, I got to do what is best for my business. And for me, it was seeing some of those opportunities. Anne: Yeah. Laya: Now I will say, when it comes to the scrutiny, whether it's, there's hearsay about are these digital models pulling down the overall rates in the industry? Anne: Yes, that's a big indus- -- that's a big discussion. Laya: Exactly. And you know what I have to say about that? I think if you're a strong business person and you know what the standard rates are, it's very easy. Everyone can go to the GVAA -- Anne: Yep. Laya: - and weigh their own rates or their ideas about a project against the rate guide. Anne: Sure. Laya: And if you really want to stay true to that, which I do, then I only take a look or auditioned for the opportunities that are in alignment -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- with the standard industry rates. Anne: Absolutely. And that is always a choice. So glad you said that because -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- it is a choice. No matter what pay-to-play platform you're on or whoever you're working with, it is a choice where to put your value, which is why it comes down to know your worth, know your value. Laya: Right. Anne: Even on Fiverr, you can, you know what I mean? There's a way to set your value. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And as you mentioned, it is a real thing. There are some agents that will refuse to necessarily look your way if you are involved. And that is with some of the pay-to-plays because that is a brand alignment. And that is something as a business -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- you make that choice, whether you want to align your brand with another brand. And that's why, again, it's that whole kind of -- it's another level of control that's removed from you. If you are choosing to align yourself with a pay-to-play, then make sure that your business and ethical values line up together. And you know what? It is a real thing to other people that may affect your career, agents, casting directors, production houses, they may make a judgment based upon your affiliation. And so that is something to absolutely consider whether or not you want to do that. But at the end of the day, right, we all have the choice of what to do and come on, I'm going to get very real and very honest. Back in the day when I was just starting out in the industry, like, as you mentioned, sometimes we used the pay-to-plays to kind of practice. Sometimes we used to understand the industry better. And a lot of times, well, you know, in the beginning, I might've taken jobs that were under the GVAA rate guide. Laya: For sure. Anne: I'm just going to admit it. I think we all do. It's like one of those things that you hide and that you don't ever, just don't mention it because there are people out there saying don't bring the value of the industry down. And I get that. Laya: Of course. Anne: But here's the deal. It's going to happen in every industry, not just ours. Laya: Yeah. Anne: There's always the bottom feeders. And so, you know, it's nice to say we band together, and we know our worth. I think that's the general moral, like, takeaway from that is just know your worth. Know that you're worth more than if you're like, oh my God, I should only because I'm just beginning charge a little bit. No, you know, you've made an investment in your career. You are worth just as much as me, who's had 20 years experience, I'm just saying, when it comes down to it, so know your worth. I think that's the most important thing, and pay-to-plays, they're a viable option, viable option for you, BOSSes. Laya: Yeah. You can make your choices. You know, you don't have to audition for everything. Anne: Yep. Laya: You don't have to put your name in the hat for everything. Just like you don't have to audition for everything that your agent sends. Just like you don't have to say yes to every opportunity a client brings you. Anne: Yeah. Laya: It's really your choice and who is anybody else to judge on whether or not that makes sense for your business. So I'm so glad we talked about this. Anne: Me too. Laya: I feel like there are many different avenues when it comes to pay-to-plays. I think like we summed up, it all comes down to doing what's best for your business -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- at the time. And the, you know, the pace that's right for your business. Anne: Sure. Laya: -- and for all of us, that's different. So it was a great conversation. Anne: Yeah. We could probably, we could probably go on and on and on about this, but yeah. Laya: Yes. Anne: Awesome conversation, BOSSes. So those pay-to-plays are an option for you. Again, do what's best for you and your business. And hey, I'd like to give a great, big shout-out to another business who is upping my value here and upping our value for the VO BOSS podcast. And that is ipDTL. You guys can learn to connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- and we'll see you next week. Laya: Thanks. Anne: Bye. Laya: Bye-bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

The synthetic voice conversation is here. Do you want a seat at the table? Anne is joined by special guest Jon Stine for a bonus Voice & Ai episode. They cover what the Open Voice Network (OVN) is, how to be a part of it, and the importance of asking questions. What are the regulations for synthetic voices, how can VO industry members get involved, and are we willing to create the standards before they're made for us…

Just in case you were wondering, you definitely wear all the hats now. In today's modern at-home recording world, you're the voice, engineer, customer service department, and tech wizard of each session; and some of those hats can get pretty cumbersome. In this episode, Anne and Laya discuss what it takes to be a BOSS in the booth, and how to maximize your potential success with tools, tech, and processes that work. It's not enough to just have a great voice or be an excellent performer anymore, but being a #VOBOSS in your booth is achievable. Learn how in this episode, jam-packed with ideas from these savvy bosses… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza along with my very special guest co-host BOSS Laya Hoffman. Hey Laya, how are you? Laya: I'm great. Anne. How are you? Anne: I'm doing good. It's been a hectic week in the booth here, which is a good thing. I'm very grateful about that, but hectic in terms of I had clients who are asking a lot of me. Laya: Oh yeah? Anne: Not just voicing. Laya: Aren't they always? Anne: Yeah. Not just voicing in the booth, but they wanted playback. They wanted to invite the client in. And so I thought it would be a good day to talk about how to be the BOSS in the booth and handle these, handle the tech, handle these situations when a lot is being requested of us these days. Laya: So much, you know. Gone are the days of just stepping into the studio and all you have to do is focus on your acting -- Anne: Remember that? Laya: -- the copy and what it feels like to deliver, you know, the message. Now you have to have all the hats on -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- simultaneously while keeping your cool and still delivering an outstanding performance. And it is harder than we realize -- Anne: Oh my gosh -- Laya: -- especially when the going gets tough. Anne: Yeah. And shout-out, okay, before anything else, a big shout-out to all the studios out there -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- and pre-pandemic too. Like I always appreciated studios and sometimes even more so now, you never realized what a luxury it is to walk into a studio and to be directed. Laya: Yes, I miss it. Anne: Right? It is a wonderful thing. And I think there's always a place for studios, but during the pandemic, when we had to kind of up our game and get our tech in place and be able to engineer and do all that, oh, that was tough. So thank you to all of those studios. Some of my favorite studios shut down, and it's so sad, and I hope that they, you know, we're now coming back to a different place. I'm so glad when I see people in studios, and they're like, oh my gosh, I'm so happy to be back in studio, seeing people, so. Laya: Well, and it's true because even the engineers -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- like I have great respect for these engineers and the sound designers that are manning the board and the client in one ear. Anne: Yup. Laya: And they've got another client patched in from somewhere else. And they have really been the lead for all these years -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- to really help craft a comfortable setting for -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- so many of us that are dealing with our own insecurities or -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- our own demands or our own needs that are happening on every angle of the table or the studio. And so I have a whole new respect having really had to shift that in house, but now it's, you know, it's a new skill learned, and I really haven't seen anywhere where you can learn the art of how to be your own BOSS in the booth -- Anne: Right? Laya: -- so this should be an interesting conversation. Anne: Well, I think, first of all, you have to educate yourself on some of these technologies that are -- Laya: Yep. Anne: -- that may be required of you. So number one, first of all, you've got to connect to a studio if you're doing a live direct, right? Or you have to be able to connect a client to be able to hear you. And so -- Laya: Yeah, your studio, right? Anne: Yeah. There are a lot of ways to do that. I know that prior to the pandemic, we were doing, a lot of people were doing stuff via Skype, and then Zoom kind of became a thing. I've had people connect via Zoom. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And I'm going to give a shout-out to, you know, our sponsor ipDTL, because I've always been able to connect other people to me via ipDTL and a very easy -- Laya: Yeah, flawlessly. Anne: Flawlessly, seamlessly, in a wonderful -- and the cool thing is, is that I even have a phone number, like my ipDTL, somebody can call a phone number and connect up with me via ipDTL. So on the other end, if you've got a client who's not technical -- Laya: Yep. Anne: -- at the very least, just give them a phone number and they can connect. Laya: Always. Anne: Now -- Laya: That's awesome. I didn't realize that about them. Good share, for sure. Anne: Yeah. Laya: For sure. Anne: But even before that, if you want to get even more elementary, right -- Laya: Of course. Anne: -- I used to have people connect to me in the studio by having my phone and earbuds. And so I'd have them call my cell phone, put my earbuds in my ear, and then my headphones over, right, my ears. Laya: Oh wow. Anne: And they would be in my ear. And it was like before you had to do a complicated -- there were people that would talk about having complicated phone patch in to your studio. And then thank goodness for cell phones with earbuds. Laya: Right. We still call it phone patch -- Anne: Right? Laya: -- but it's like, we're actually, we've upped the tech a little bit. Right? Anne: Yup. Laya: It's not necessarily a phone, but yeah, you're right. There's so many clients and partners out there that need to pass it on to somebody that isn't used to this program, you know, is used to just going into a studio and letting somebody else handle it. So you gotta make it easy for them with something as simple as a phone number -- Anne: Yeah. Exactly. Laya: -- or a Zoom link or something that they're used to. You got to meet them where they are. Anne: Yeah. I think that's your client non-technical person that needs to be able to hear what you're doing with their copy -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- is a phone patch, the cell phone number, the Zoom connection, Skype connection. And that's just something that you want to make sure that as a talent, when they are connected, they are either muted when you are obviously voicing the copy or, you know, you are muting them so that you're not getting the feedback. Or even if they're in your ear, you don't want that to bleed through. So -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- make sure that you have a good mute system or you know how to mute clients when you are speaking the copy. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And that I would say the very elemental client connect to us in our studio, those are some viable methods. Now what about connecting to studios? We have a couple of different options here. Laya: Yeah, we do. And I even want to go back a step if, if that's all right with you, Anne. Anne: Sure. Laya: Because I found that more and more of my clients who are used to into a studio may not be used to connecting now virtually with a studio. And so they're just coming straight to me as the voice talent saying like, how do we get this done? And so I offer a few solutions, right? I say, you know, um, I have multiple connectivity options. You can connect with me via the digital methods, which would be Skype, Google Hangouts, Zoom -- funny story as a side, I offered just to Zoom and Skype to a client that works with Google. And so they were like -- Anne: Oh wow. Laya: -- oh no, we do Google Hangouts. And I was like, oh yeah, of course -- Anne: Got to offer that. Laya: That's now, don't want to offend Google. So of course that's in the mix or phone patch, you know, I say, if you've got a conference line -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- but right from the jump I say, you know, or I would prefer to connect with a studio of your choice, or I can recommend one for SourceConnect or ipDTL -- Anne: ipDTL. Laya: -- or anything like that that makes it easy on them. So I first put it in their court when approached with it, because I do find that so many times, they're like, uh, how do we do this? You know, at least that was the case in the very beginning. Anne: Well, I want to add to that list, in addition to your visual hangouts, if they just need an audio hangout, there's also Bodalgo Call. There's also -- Laya: Yes. Anne: Right? That they can just connect up audibly. And by the way, I had some international clients that Zoom did not work. And so they had to use Skype. And that was the only thing that -- Laya: Skype is another one, yeah. Anne: -- will work. Really depends on certain protocols, I know, of security. Laya: Yep. Anne: And so one was Skype. Another person could only connect via Zoom. The other, if it's audio only, it could be, but Bodalgo Call. There's also Open Connection. I'm trying to think what else is -- I think now, um, I'm just trying to think. There is a new capability of I -- maybe it's Mac iOS that you can connect an audio call. I'm gosh, I'm now, I'm going to, I'm going to go crazy trying to think of it. But anyways, there are those other options where if you just need an audio connection where they listen in, you can offer that, where they don't have to dial a number, but they can join in via computer. Laya: Yes. Anne: And there's audio options for any of these. Laya: Oh for sure there is. Anne: Yeah. So obviously if you don't have to have video, which I recommend, to be honest with you. I don't know if I really want people that in my booth, you know, when I'm performing -- Laya: I agree with you. Anne: -- like you don't have to look at me. Laya: I agree with you. In fact, I want to touch on that a little bit, because in addition to that, like I hear Zoom and I'm like, oh my gosh, I got to like, look presentable. Anne: Gotta do my hair. Laya: But a couple of key points there for me have been, well first, I'll ask them what their preferred connectivity, but I'll asterisk with, if you find that playback during our session is going to be essential -- Anne: Oh yes. Laya: -- for decision-making with your client -- some clients are just like, no, just send me -- I just want to listen in. And they're very low hassle, I don't know. Anne: Yep. Laya: They're easy to deal with. And so that you've worked with them in the past. It's no big deal. They just want to listen in. And sometimes they've got a lot of people on the line, and a lot of personalities and they definitely want playback. And I said, well, hey, unless we're connecting to a studio, which can absolutely engineer that -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- the only way that my capabilities are going to allow playback are through Zoom. I haven't found any other playback capabilities, albeit I haven't looked very hard, but I'm like you, have an Apollo. I use Adobe Audition. And I have found that the only thing I can do playback on is through Zoom, if they're not using SourceConnect, of course. What are your options? Have you found any? Anne: So that's really interesting because I have an Apollo, and I use Twisted Wave. So my Apollo acts as a virtual audio output device -- Laya: Interesting. Anne: -- because I can play it within Twisted Wave, and they'll be able to hear it, which is something I didn't have until I got the Apollo. Other interfaces, they did not act as that. There's some software that you can load on your computer that can act as a virtual audio output device, like Sound Flower. The other thing too, if I need to play back for a client or a studio, I use ipDTL, which allows me to -- Laya: Right, perfect. Anne: -- play it back. But it's always like, oh, can we get playback? And I'm like, all right, but it's the raw audio. Laya: Yeah, I haven't cleaned it. Anne: I haven't edited anything out. But that's my paranoid, non-engineer, you know -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- going, oh my God, all right, I can play it back, but you're going to hear that mouth or something. Laya: And those curveballs can really throw you off your performance games. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: So it's important to know all these avenues. And I'm so glad you pointed out those playback options. It might just be in my lack of knowledge or education -- Anne: ipDTL. Laya: -- on the matter. So I'm going to look that up, but yeah, of course. So I'm going to offer that. They're my partner now too. Anne: But if I had my choice, if I had my choice, if I am on the line with a studio, and I'm connected via ipDTL, SourceConnect, Connection Open, and I think there's another high quality audio connection option out there right now. Forgive me that I can't think of it right now, but ipDTL and SourceConnect are the two big ones, but I -- Laya: And SessionLink, I think I've done -- Anne: Oh, SessionLink. Laya: Yep. Anne: That's it. That's the one I was thinking of. So those are options when you want to connect up to a studio, and when that happens, I love it because the studio engineer can typically do the playback. Laya: Same, same. Anne: Yeah. Laya: I'm like, yes, I can finally just focus on me -- Anne: Being an actor. Laya: Yes. Uh, I wish buyers knew what a better performance they probably get -- Anne: Right? Laya: -- and a smoother transition when they get, when you're dealing with a studio and an engineer. It really does take the pressure off. So let's talk about what happens when it doesn't go so well. Anne: You're flustered. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So number one, I'm going to say this, just from experience and just from a tech experience as well. Not just voice over, but being, being a techhead for 20 years, always have a backup plan -- Laya: Always. Anne: -- because things can fail. Connections can fail. I've been noticing recently there's been some conversations about one of the providers not working so well. I've had my days where, you know, things just happen. Like ipDTL is slow or weird or something doesn't connect, or SourceConnect, right? It's just not working the way -- maybe SourceConnect Now. Oh, that's the other one, by the way, they can do playback, probably, SourceConnect Now. Laya: Okay. Anne: So those things, what do you do if one thing doesn't work? You always have to have your backup. And you know, in the heat of the moment when the client is there, and you don't know when you can reschedule that session, you certainly don't want your interface failing. You don't want your Internet network to fail. So if you can have backup points all along the way, meaning what if your microphone, I don't know. All of a sudden your microphone like dies, right? Do you have another microphone? Can you swap it out quickly? Do you have another audio interface? Do you have another network, Internet network, like a backup Internet connection? Those are things that I think as a professional, you need to have those in place. So that during an important session, usually when it's a live directed session, I'm going to say it's probably a pretty important, not that our self-directed sessions aren't important, but when it's a live directed session, there's that added pressure. You've got the client usually on the line or the studio on the line that you're trying to make a good impression. Like, hey, I got this. And you certainly don't want to seem any less than professional or prepared -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- when something bad might happen. So that's my first, my first advice. Laya: I can't agree with you more. And let me just share from experience. Anne: Yes. Laya: First of all, it happens to all of us -- Anne: It does. Laya: -- and we're all human. So just admitting calmly and in control to whoever may be affected -- Anne: Calmly. Laya: -- you know, we're having an issue -- exactly. Oh my God, freaking out, is not the way to go with your clients. But if you can admit, hey, you know what, I'm experiencing something that's unusual right now. Give me just a few minutes. And if we can break for five, I'll get right back to you. Sometimes -- Anne: You are like the epitome of calm. I'm just saying, like the way you just said that, I just love it. I'm not quite sure I could say it so coolly, but you just -- that was awesome. Laya: You know, just give me a moment. Anne: Just a moment. Laya: Get your meditation voice on. No, so to me, I've actually had this happen on two occasions where the power surge has gone out, like a brown-out in the middle of the afternoon for no reason. There's not even -- it's like a rolling blackouts. You know, sometimes, city's done -- that has happened to me once before. And let me tell you, I had a plan and I had a backup. Now I wasn't able to use the Apollo because that's powered, but I have -- Sound Devices has another DAW system that I use. And I was able to use -- my power was backed up -- Anne: Nice. Laya: -- and flipped on a candle. And I was able to conduct a session -- Anne: Careful in the booth with that candle. Laya: Exactly. Right, right. Having a power outage. Anne: Yeah. Laya: I mean, something as crazy as that. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And of course everyone understands, but you know, they may have a lot riding on the session as well, under deadline, with a new client and what have you. So you got to have a backup. Anne: Can I just say that absolutely the power is super important, and you may not even realize until you're live, right, and with a client, your Internet connection failing -- Laya: Yes. Yep. Anne: -- or especially when you're connected wifi. And if you're connected directly to a studio or to a client, it really does help to have that dependable, reliable Internet connection that doesn't have dropouts. Laya: Yep. Anne: And wifi, I'm sorry, guys. I know wifi is convenient and easy and not a lot of people are necessarily technical or know, but it helps to be directly connected -- Laya: Definitely. Anne: -- to your router, to your Internet at all possible costs because that is going to be one less point of failure. So. Laya: Yep, hard-wired in is the way to go for sure. As soon as you can, uh, establish that connection with your studio or with your home Internet, and even upgrade to a business Internet system where you've got more bandwidth, hopefully you, you know, maybe even got fiber in your area. Anne: Sure, yeah. Laya: That's just some key stuff. And that way you can use, if -- as your backup can be your wifi hotspot on your cell phone, if need be. That's happened to me before as well. Anne: Oh yeah, that's always my second. My second Internet connection is my wifi hotspot, which is great to have that Internet connection. Now, what about, okay, mentally, right? Technically, look, you just have to be prepared with backups, and you have to understand hopefully enough to know how to disconnect, reconnect. I always, by the way, if I'm going to finish up on the technical aspect of being prepared, take a picture of your connections into your DAW and you know what I mean? And, and into, into the whole booth, right? Your monitor's connected this way, your microphones are connected here into your audio device. And so take pictures of the back of it -- Laya: Great tip. Anne: -- label your cables and -- Laya: Oh, label my cables, that's absolutely key. Anne: Label your cables. Laya: Label the cable should be like hashtag. Anne: Label the cables. Laya: I love it. Anne: And also, well, computer backup too doesn't it hurt. So always have that second. And I use my travel rig as my backup, right? So I have a laptop, and I've got a different interface, and I've got another microphone at the ready pretty much so that I can go there. And, but if you don't, make sure that you're taking pictures of how things are connected. 'Cause even me being a technical person, you know, in the heat of the moment, you want to make sure that you can react quickly. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So now mentally, I had an experience where I had a live directed session with a very large client. One of the clients that -- a client I've always -- a dream client that I've always wanted to be connected to. And I actually experienced an engineer who was trying to, I don't even know how to say it, was trying to impress the client in his own way and made me do like, I'm going to say, three takes of every single line of a fairly large medical narration project. And it became very stressful for me because every single -- and I didn't know, he had planned on doing three takes of every line, and this what should have been an hour session turned into three and a half hours. And by the time that was done, I was exhausted. And mentally I was really frustrated, and it was starting to affect my performance. So -- Laya: Absolutely. Anne: -- mentally you need to be prepared for that kind of a pressure. And sometimes I say, it's good to have a practice session with somebody. If you've got a close connection, even a voiceover talent that you are -- have an accountability group or something, do some test sessions and have things go wrong, and see how you can react. It does help at least the preparedness or feeling better, because mentally, if your performance is suffering, that's tough. What are your -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- do you have some suggestions, Laya -- Laya: Oh gosh, sure. Anne: -- for mental, you know, how to recover mentally? Laya: Yeah. Well, sure, and again, that happens to everybody also, right? Anne: Yeah. Laya: Even the pros of the pros, the top people -- Anne: Yep. Laya: -- there's always sometimes just somebody in the group that's either trying to establish themselves -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- because they're posturing for whatever reason is going on for them, maybe they haven't had the best day, or they're trying to prove themselves -- Anne: Exactly. Laya: -- in the room. And you know what? You just have to remember, you're the hired gun. Anne: Yep. Laya: You're the hired -- you, you're just there to listen and just take orders -- Anne: Yep. Laya: -- and leave your ego at the door -- Anne: Exactly. Laya: -- and just try to serve them and the copy and the client to the best of your ability. But I have been in that situation several times before, and it really doesn't come down to -- if you can remember, it really is not about your performance. Sometimes it's easy to recognize these people sometimes in a session. Anne: Yep, yep. Laya: You know, first sometimes even taking a step back, there's a lot of people coming at you. And so when I'm in a self-directed session or not a self-directed, but when I'm engineering the session myself, and I'm not connected to a studio, and if I am, sometimes there's a lot of cooks in the kitchen, and there's a lot of people coming at you with all different opinions. Anne: Sure. Laya: And sometimes I'll listen to them all. If it calms down, you know, maybe it's bubbling up for a minute or two -- if it calms down, I'm able to get the focus again. I usually come back and say, okay, so-and-so, so tell me, this is how I thought I heard that. This is my translation of that. But to keep it super clear, moving forward, do you think I can get that direction from just one person? And sometimes it's a reframe, and that sets a neutral tone -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- for all the personalities that are on the phone. Right? Anne: Yeah. Laya: And so, because that can mess with you mentally as well. Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: And so I think establishing that and like re-getting control of the session, that can help when all those personalities are chiming it, or they're asking for multiple retakes, and you're just, you're like, well, but I'm doing it. You know? You start to second guess yourself. Anne: That's the thing that's such an -- I'm glad you brought that up because it's so important when they're asking for a different take. And sometimes the people that are asking for it, they don't know how to ask for it. Laya: Yep. They don't know the language to use. Anne: They don't know the language. Laya: Right? Anne: And hey, sometimes even people that do know the language don't know how to ask for that. And so you have to be very aware that this is something that will happen to you. And at one point, if they're asking you for so many retakes, then your confidence level starts to really fluctuate. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And I like in my head, I'm like, oh my God, did I not give them what they want? Well, I just gave them that. What, how did that not work? Really? And so that sort of conversation that you have in your head, that can really start to affect your performance. My go-to is breathing, just breathe, you know, in through the nose and exhale. I just heard my nose [phonetic]. Laya: Yeah. Anne: Breathing in deeply. And that helps a lot. Laya: Even on top of that shaking, like sometimes it's okay to say, hey, you know what? Anne: I need a minute. Laya: I needed just a moment. If you can take a break for just a few minutes, let me shake it off real quick -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and come right back to you with a fresh set of ears on my own, you know, in my own headphones. Anne: Yup. Laya: And maybe that will help. Anne: Yeah. Laya: 'Cause I want to make sure that you're getting exactly what you want out of this session. Anne: Exactly. Laya: And as long as you continue to put it back on them, but are humble and human enough to say, you know what? I just need a moment. Um, let me get some water, step out for just a second. And I'll be right back with you. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And sometimes that's enough to break up even them in their own headspace. Maybe they didn't even realize that's like a good way to send a signal. Like, you're overdoing it. Anne: Yup. Laya: And the talent needs to regroup. And that's a very professional thing to do. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And it's totally acceptable. Anne: And sometimes, sometimes they'll either say too much or they won't say anything and you'll be like, oh, okay. Or they'll just, you'll do a number of retakes. And then there'll be like, okay. And then you'd be like, oh my God, I didn't give them what they need. That's it. I'm done. They're never hiring me again. That's the other kind of like, self-deprecating language that might happen -- Laya: Oh, for sure. Anne: -- in your head, is like, oh, okay. They didn't react. And so what are they thinking? And so that can make it a little bit scary -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- in your head. So just, you know, for me, I love how, you know, let's take a moment. That always helps me and the breathing, and understand that sometimes you may be giving them exactly what they need, and they're just not responding. Laya: Yeah. Maybe they're distracted. They're something else. Anne: That's right. Laya: They're scrolling on their phone or another email's come through. Anne: That's right. Laya: That can be a challenge -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- when you're working virtually like this, you don't know what the other person is experiencing. Anne: Yeah. Laya: I remember one time recently I was on a call with two producers that were partners in two different states, and they clearly did not gel up. They were neck and neck. Anne: Yup. Laya: One of the producers had her kids screaming in the background. So it's in those moments that you have to kind of quickly empathize and identify where the energy source is and the chaos that may be happening for them. Anne: Sure, absolutely. Laya: Bring the calm to the mic and say, you know, what, what I'm hearing from you is this, what I'm hearing from you is this. Would you agree that it's more like this, and you want -- this is the end result here? And then also, like you said, kind of command the room to the best of your ability. You know? Anne: Yeah. Laya: Sometimes it's easy to say, to get the best performance today and I want to deliver what you want, I'm going to need everybody to mute their microphones, and let me get one source of direction or feedback going. And if they don't give it to you, like you're saying, say, okay, so can I get some feedback? You're welcome to ask the questions. And I think sometimes we forget that we can take control of those sessions. Anne: Yeah. Laya: It's one of the most empowering things to feel when you finally feel confident enough to do so. Anne: And the other thing too is just to know that these things do happen, right? It's so hard to predict what can happen in the booth when you have multiple people, what kind of like -- did you mention -- what kind of day they're having, too many people like that are hearing it differently than their head. Remember that we all hear the copy differently in our heads. The best thing you need to do is try to align that sound to what the client wants, right? And that client can differ. You could have a, I don't know, you could have a one, a marketing director or the, that hears it one way. And you could have a producer that hears it a different way. And as you mentioned, the two are clashing, and they might be at the same time directing you or even not. Let's say you've done the session. And then they come back and ask you for something different. So understand that that's absolutely something that can happen. And it has nothing to do with your performance. Laya: Right. Anne: And you could have given them exactly what they asked for. And a lot of times, I say this all the time, the way that you got the job is not always the way that you'll be directed to do the job once called upon to do it. Laya: So much so. Anne: Right? Laya: Right? That happens all the time. Anne: Because you have a different director, you have a different set of ears, and you have somebody that hears it differently directing you. So it is always very subjective to the person that is directing. And also, I'm just going to say, if you get the check, that's it. Consider it an amazing day. Laya: Yep. Anne: Consider you've given the client what they've wanted. It may not be what you agree or think is the way it should be. Right? But you've given the client what they wanted. And that's the most important thing. Laya: Yeah. And I would say that the -- in the end, no matter how the session goes, I always like to close with a big thank you. Thank you. I -- first of all -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- I write, and I forgot to say this in the very beginning, but I've always got a notepad with me. As people are making their introductions, I always write down everyone's name so that I -- Anne: Good idea. Laya: -- call of them by name throughout the session, to the best of my ability I can call the director or the producer, whoever's calling the shots by their name, repeat their names again and again so they know that you're very focused on who you're dealing with, even though you're not in the same space. Anne: Sure. Laya: And then at the end close by being, you know, thank you very much for having me. I'm so proud that you selected me for this project. I really hope to have the opportunity to work with you again in the future. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: Good luck on your project and thanks again. Anne: And bam. Laya: And then I think the engineer, if there is one and, you know, wrap it in a nice bow -- Anne: Yep, yep. Laya: -- so they know no matter what, you left with a big smile -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- and very grateful for their time -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- and for selecting you. And then, you know, maybe they'll remember, you know, it, wasn't just an awkward, like, okay, thanks. Thanks, guys. Bye. Anne: Yeah. End it professionally gracefully, and you know, again, it's one of those things, then don't stay too long either at the very end. Laya: No, yeah. Anne: Don't expect -- there should be nothing, except thank you. It was a pleasure working with you and good luck with the project. They do not owe you anything else. They don't owe you praise. They don't owe you, hey, well, you know, we'll contact you for the next job. They owe you nothing -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- because that is a job. And ultimately, if you've done it to their satisfaction, you'll get paid for it. And so don't be, don't be emotionally affected by any of it at the end. Just close it warmly with a nice little bow. I like that. Wrap it up with a bow and onto the next one. Laya: Yep. And I would say the other thing, and I've -- I made this mistake early on. I realized very quickly it was inappropriate, but the end of the session is not a good time to say, hey, I'd love a copy of that spot when you're done. Anne: Yeah. Oh gosh. Yes, yes, exactly. Laya: Unless you really know the person -- Anne: Good point. Laya: -- or like, it's just, you one-on-one, I'd love to see what you come up with. You know, when this is thing is done. Anne: Yep. Laya: If it's not that easy and comfortable, that is not the time to be asking for anything. Just bow out gracefully. Anne: I totally agree with you right there. Totally. That makes you look a little bit, I don't know, desperate, maybe? Laya: Hungry. Yeah, a little hungry. Anne: And I would say it's a good opportunity for you maybe a month or two down the road when you know the spot's been released to maybe reconnect and then say, hey, thanks so much. Just wanted to say it was a wonderful opportunity. And by the way, if, at that point, if, hey, if you wouldn't mind, is there a way that I might be able to see the finished product? I love it when engineers and producers send me the -- that's the best when they send it to me when it's done. And I'm like, oh my God, like too few people do that. Laya: Yeah. I wish they knew how valuable that was, that currency is. Anne: Yeah. Laya: You know? Anne: I have a couple of really awesome producers that I work with who will just send me the spot, like on, I don't have to ask for it. They send me the spot when it's done. And I'm like, oh, this is so awesome. So that gives you that permission to share it. And just, it's just a good thing to see your finished product. But -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- yeah. Laya: And I would like to mention too, that part of that follow-up process, only when appropriate -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- but it helps to write down those names because a -- Anne: Sure. Laya; -- few weeks later, or even a few days later, in some instances -- you got to feel it out and trust your gut -- if it was appropriate for you to make contact, meaning your agent didn't book that for you -- Anne: Right. Laya: -- and there's not a middleman or anything like that -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- having their name or their studio affiliation, it'll at least allow you to find them or follow their studio on Instagram. Sometimes we are given the name of the studio or their production company that's working with it or the agency that's creating the piece -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- not necessarily the client. Great time to make a followup connection, be it LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTube, and follow their work, continue to champion them and cheer them on. Anne: Yes. Laya: Or just drop them a line on LinkedIn and say, hey, I had a great session with you last week. Just wanted to say and take care of yourself. Hope all is well. Anne: Yes. Laya: I look forward to keeping an eye on your creative output, you know, in the months to come or something like that. It's a great way to follow that up too. Anne: Excellent point about if you get this work through an agent, and I just want to reiterate this, if you get work through your agent, I strongly recommend reconnecting with your agent first, before. Laya: Yes. Anne: Like don't connect the client directly -- Laya: No. Anne: -- connect to the client directly after the job or at any point, really, if it came through your agent, because that's a relationship that that agent has worked probably for a number of days, months, years, whatever, to connect and to secure. And you don't want to just kind of go in between that. So handle that professionally. Always go through your agent if the agent is the one that set that up for, if you have any questions or if you want to connect or say, do you think it would be okay if I sent them a thank you or ask for a copy of it? So excellent point. Wow. It was a great discussion today, Laya. Laya: Yeah, love these BOSSes in the booth. Anne: BOSSes in the booth. Laya: I know our listeners are going to be able to take control of those situations -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- because all of them can crop up. But in this day, this modern times, you really need to wear multiple hats -- Anne: That's right. Laya: -- in the booth. And that comes down to client relations, to engineering, to tack -- Anne: Yep. Laya: -- to being your actor, your best performance self, all those things with eloquence and grace, and then you'll win. Anne: There you go. Laya: You know, you'll be the BOSS in the booth. Anne: Modern BOSSes in the booth. All right, I'm going to give a great, big shout-out to my modern connectivity -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- through ipDTL, our sponsor. We love them. Thank you so much, ipDTL, for always connecting me with BOSSes like Laya. You too can be a BOSS connected ipDTL person. Find out more at ipdtl.com. All right, guys, have an amazing week. Laya: Thanks, everybody. Anne: We'll see you next week. Bye. Laya: Bye-bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Think you need an agent to master the casting game? Think again. Anne and Laya teach you how to make the most of your VO business by building relationships that will land bookings and get you paid. They discuss pay-2-play strategies, symbiotic agent-talent relationships, reaching out to production houses, and how cultivating your SEO can get you jobs without auditioning... Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, along with my special, special guest cohost Laya Hoffman. Laya -- Laya: Hey. Anne: -- how are you? Laya: Anne, I'm doing awesome. How are you? Anne: You know, Laya, I'm awesome. And I just love, love, love doing these podcast episodes with you. Laya: Yes, same here. I've learned so much. I feel like -- Anne: Me too. Laya: -- we've shared so much, and the feedback we've been getting from your BOSSes has been incredible. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: So thank you, BOSSes, for leaning in and coming back to us with your takeaways and your modern mindsets. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: Because the whole thing has come full circle. I feel so rewarded and so grateful for this. Anne: That's right. Well, Laya and I have really been enjoying our topics of late. And I think they're very relevant. They're very relevant in terms of BOSSes wanting growth mindset for growing their businesses, growing themselves personally, growing their performances. So now let's talk about once we've been growing our skills and our assets, how are we going to get work? Laya: Yes. Anne: Let's talk about how do we get cast in these roles? How do we win these gigs? There's all sorts of wonderful things to talk about with that agents, production, houses, managers pay-to-plays, all of these things. Maybe we should just, let's have a discussion on how are we going to be getting work. Laya: Yes, it's such a good one to have, because I think if you're just now coming up in the industry, you feel like, oh, I, the first thing I got to do is I got to get an agent. That was my misconception in the very beginning, to be honest. And you know, once you've been around a little while, you realize that's nowhere near your first step. In fact, doing the work and training and getting yourself conditioned is by far the first step. And then you slowly build on that as we have talked about, and you know very well with your asset library, your image, your brand, so that when you are fully ready, and I mean fully ready, meaning you're booking and you're making money and you can present yourself as a resource, then you're going to maybe approach agents or managers. But until then, there's a lot of work to do. And there's definitely outlets to go get that work. Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: So let's talk about it. Lead us in. Anne: Well, yeah. I am going to agree with you that yes, I, in the beginning I thought, oh, I need an agent right away. And that is absolutely not necessarily true at all. As a matter of fact, you have to usually prove that you've gotten some work under your belt before an agent will consider you. Laya: Absolutely. Anne: But I remember thinking, okay, so I got my demo. Now I need an agent. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So a lot of times that is something that can be put on the back burner until you, you know, assert yourself, go out there and get some work. But until you do that, you got to get that work. So how are you going to do that? Laya: Yeah. Anne: And by the way, I'll tell you that I was working full-time for years before I got my first agent. So. Laya: Yes. And I was working in the same space. You know, I was definitely making money in voice work. And I thought the agent thing was going to tip me over the balance. And that's when I knew I was going to be successful. When the reality is I book very little work through my main agents, or at least I did in the very beginning. And so you lose sight of that when you're not quite there, you feel like maybe that's going to be the cash out or the pinnacle, or that's where you want to achieve. But there's a lot of work to glean without an agent too. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: And I think that's kind of where the paradigm or the shift is in the industry right now. And while a lot of the cream, you know, at the top goes to the agents or the managers, there's lots of great work out there that you can get by cultivating relationships with clients, putting yourselves out there, marketing, you know, dipping into pay-to-plays, if that's your thing. So let's dig in. Anne: So, I will say that when I started, and this is back in the day, pay-to-plays were not the same 'cause I've been in the industry for a few years now. So back when pay-to-plays first started, and I believe it was Voice123 that was the very first one, if I can remember correctly. Before that, there was kind of like freelancer.com where people would post jobs. But I think the very first pay-to-play was Voice123, which I hopped on. I was on board when they came on board, and it was actually something that was successful for me. And -- but the landscape of the pay-to-plays has changed quite a bit over the years, but that was my main source, that and other like freelance websites to get my first jobs. And as I kind of struggled and, you know, found my way through the industry, the pay-to-plays started to become a place where I could actually get clients that would become return clients. And that was super helpful to me. So I think these days, it's probably important that maybe you can dabble in the pay-to-plays, see if they work for you. Sometimes, you know, they're so congested right now that I feel that it's really that much more difficult to get work from them. However, some people are very successful at it, depending I think on the level that you're paying for. I don't think it's always necessary to get work just through the pay-to-plays, but I feel like it might be very frustrating for people just starting in the industry. Laya: Yeah. Anne: What about you? What do you think? Laya: Well, I've got a lot of information to glean on this because as we've talked about before, you know, I was, I've been doing voice work for over 20 years, but never full-time and never really taking it "seriously" until I went full-time about three years ago and ripped the band-aid off. And so my start was non-traditional in the sense that, you know, I didn't spend this long amount of time cultivating anything with training and whatnot. And so I have been a Voice123 member since 2009, I think, but I didn't optimize a profile or anything like that. I did however, dive right in and get a membership when I first went official full-time a couple of years ago, and I used it as an -- I hate to say it like this now, but it's true -- I kind of used it as a practice tool. I would never recommend that. So I can't believe I'm admitting it, but in all, you know, full disclosure, like, I didn't know what different scripts were out there. I didn't know how to play in different genres or where my voice sat best. I didn't really have an understanding. So to me, a lot of people say, don't do that because you're putting your name out there. You never know who you're going to come across, and they're going to be like, oh gosh, no, the audio is terrible, whatever. I did it because I needed to know for myself what felt right. And in doing that, it kind of opened up a lot of opportunities, a lot of ideas and a lot of awareness about myself. So for me, I probably didn't take the traditional route. And I know we could, we're going to dive into a full, deep scope of pay-to-plays at one point. Anne: We will. Laya: Today might not be the day, but just to touch on that, it is an okay place to start if you just want to see what's out there and what kind of jobs are being offered -- Anne: Right, right, agreed. Laya: -- and what kind of scripts and maybe what kind of budgets are out there. So. Anne: Well, let me admit something -- Laya: Please. Anne: -- Laya. Laya: I'm leaning in. Anne: I used it as a practice ground too. Laya: See, I'm not alone. Anne: Back in the -- see. So back in the day, like it's very true what you just said. So if you've not been in the voiceover industry, it's really hard to know like what kind of jobs are out there? What does a typical script look like? If there is such a thing. Laya: What does usage look like? Like what are they saying about it? Anne: Exactly. Laya: What's the language? Anne: What do I even, where do I even begin? Laya: Right. Anne: And so in reality it was, for me, it was a good education. Now I was also fortunate enough to book back in the day, because again, it wasn't as congested. And I also used it to kind of, oh, and I will admit this to kind of, 'cause there was no middleman back in the day -- Laya: Yeah, right. Anne: -- I was able to kind of scope it for companies that were hiring. And so I knew if there was a company that put out an audition for a corporate job or a telephony job, I would write that company name down and be on my list of things to kind of investigate. And a few months later I'd kind of put that company on my list of maybe people to contact later on. Laya: Yeah. Anne: But it really was a -- and there was no, there was nothing bad about doing that by the way. But I believe that's why there are some restrictions now on certain pay-to-plays where you can't communicate with your potential client, which, I don't think is right, to be honest with you. Laya: No. Anne: I think that they shouldn't be able to communicate so that you can get the job done. And the quality of the job is what's important. Laya: And there are some work arounds, but we'll dive into that. Anne: But that's what I'll say right now about pay-to-plays. Laya: Yeah, yeah. Anne: So I don't think it's the horrible taboo. I think that it's a very valid reason so that you kind of understand, like what does the work look like out here in the voiceover industry? So let's talk about, we kind of dabbled just a little bit with agents. And like I said, it took me four years to get an agent. So I had gotten some work under my belt. At that time I felt comfortable submitting for agents. Remember this is, you know, 10, 10 or so years ago, and now -- Laya: It's very much, it did change. Anne: It has changed now. Laya: Like super aggressive. Right? Anne: Now you really kind of need to have a referral -- Laya: Definitely. Anne: -- to get yourself your agent and to get yourself into there. So at the time I was able to submit, but then I grew into having other people that also had that agent. I would talk to them about it. And I would, then I would just basically ask if I could refer their name and say that so-and-so told me about your agency. And I'm really excited. I really think your agency is amazing, and I'm hoping that I might be a fit for you. Laya: Right. Anne: And so that was just one way to kind of use that, that networking relationship to my advantage. Laya: I did something similar as well. Um, I was working with engineers that I admired and had a great symbiotic relationship with, and they made recommendations to agents that they traditionally cast with. So I was lucky in that sense. And then I did do some cold kind of call reach outs, email contact to some other agents that I knew that were very reputable, that were in regional markets that may have something interesting to offer, and that I could be a resource to them, of course, doing my research first, making sure there was a fit on their roster that I could fill with a unique approach or sound or skill set. And that's kind of hard to do, but also in a way it's kind of transparent. A lot of agents, uh, have their entire rosters up. And so not only do you want to make sure that you're a good fit and you're going to be a great resource for them, but that they're a great fit for you. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: You want that agent to be excited about you because unfortunately there is such a saturation right now. Maybe it's been like this a while, but with talent and with agents, and because of pay-to-plays, the opportunities have gotten spread thin. Anne: Very, very. Laya: So you, you know, where I cast this huge net at first and had lots of regional agents and was looking to have my hand in a little bit of everything, I found very quickly that that spread me thin as well. And as the auditions were overlapping, I would start to panic. Who do I give this to? You know? And then that created lack of trust and didn't create a solid foundation or relationship with those agents, because I was just sporadically submitting. And so that's a whole other thing to consider too. Anne: That's a, that's an excellent point. I will say that in the height of my getting agents, I landed myself 11 of them. And over the years, right, those agents, like you said, sometimes, I mean the workplace and the environment, has really just changed so much, even in just the last couple of years, that the work is even getting spread thin. So sometimes you will see some of the same auditions. And I realized just as you mentioned, I realized from my own self, I didn't have the time to respond to all of the agent auditions. And so I found myself kind of gravitating towards just a couple of them that I consider to be my home base and agents that, you know, we worked well together. So there's something to be said that it's not just a one-way relationship. Laya: Oh, no. Anne: It really is a two-way relationship with you and your agents, so fine tuning that and honing in on those agents, that works well for both of you, I think that's very, very important in order to really maximize your casting opportunities. Laya: For, sure. I mean, if you're a talent on a roster with 3, 4, 600 other talents, and I feel like some times there're, you know, talents getting gobbled up and it's, it's more of a numbers game for the agent and verse -- and vice versa for the talent. Um, and when the reality is just like our friendships and our personal relationships, if you can nurture them and stay true and be loyal and be consistent, they're going to know that, see that, respect that in return. And you're going to be more top of mind to that agent. Whereas if you're just sporadically hitting -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- you know, alternating between them, because you're trying to really widen your net, it's actually going to water you down, and that's going to water your name, your brand, and your voice down and the opportunities. So I also streamlined this past year in order to be fair to them in my partnership and my word and myself. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: So that's very important and something to consider. Anne: And so agents, I think, for a lot of people, you have to really step back and understand your agent and their specialty. Every agent has a specialty. A lot of agents will work in the commercial broadcast around, but then there are other agents who do radio imaging. There's other agents that do animation and then other agents that specialize in promo. So knowing your agent and their specialties and what type of work you are going for or looking for, trying to get, that's important, because almost as important for me, for my genres that I book work in is not just the agents, but also casting, right? Laya: Yeah. Anne: Casting agencies, production houses, being on the roster on production houses and maintaining a great relationship with those people has gotten me repeat work over and over and over again. Laya: Absolutely. Anne: And I cannot stress the importance of the connection that you have with production houses and the relationship because they're submitting for you. It's almost like having an agent, right, that doesn't necessarily send out an audition, but they have clients who come to them and say, hey, I've got a medical narration or an automotive narration or any kind of corporate thing, and this is what I'm looking for. And they're the ones that will be sending out your demos or whatever it is, your past work to kind of promote you to their clients. And then basically I would just get a call that says, hey, are you available next week for this job? Laya: Yeah. Anne: Oh my gosh. That's like the best way to get a job. Hey, are you available? Laya: The best way. Anne: You've been hired already. Laya: No audition needed. Exactly. And I got to say, I'm so glad you spoke about this because production houses are so fundamental. They are -- Anne: Yeah, they are. Laya: You know, sometimes they're using agents. Sometimes they're using managers, but sometimes they've got their own in-house team. Anne: Yup, exactly. Laya: And it's just like everybody's got to make money in this together, yes, they may be selling your voice or the voiceover element of the product at a higher fee, but maybe there's a consistent, flat rate. They tend to make your job much easier because you may not have to audition, or they've already got the engineer built in, or they already know your studio specs, your voice, your sound, et cetera. For instance, I'm an in-house talent on Pandora's and Sirius XM's roster. Shout-out to that whole incredible team -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- of audio slayers over there. Because as I've gotten to know them over the last few years, they know my voice, they just cast you -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- where they know that your voice is going to sit right so they've got the best output and you're going to give them the best output. It's a trust relationship. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: It is so valuable. And while sometimes the rate can be a little bit lower than your standard GVAA, you know, industry rate that you might just be putting out there for usage, the repetition and the ease of work -- Anne: And volume. Laya: -- and the volume is huge. And that should not be overlooked or turned your nose up at. It's again, very, very beneficial for all parties. Anne: I have been on a couple of rosters for over 10 years already. And it's just, there's so much to be said for just, oh, by the way, are you available for this job? Laya: Yes. Anne: And it's the same kind of thing with repeat clients who just come back to you over and over again, where you don't have to audition. I just had, again, I've got work this weekend. I had somebody email me say, and I haven't heard from them in years, but they're like, hey, are you available to do this job? And I'm like, well, hey, yeah, it's great to hear from you again. I love it. And one thing I'll also say outside of the production houses and casting houses is to also, and this is not necessarily a mass casting, but your website and your SEO of your business can also help to cast yourself without an audition. Laya: Sure can. Anne: So I'll get a lot of people who will just send me an email inquiry and say, here's my script. How much will that cost? Laya: Yup. Anne: And the cool thing again is that I don't have to audition for that. So what I love is that type of casting. So. Laya: Yeah, and that happens for me as well, not as often as I would like. I'm sure your SEO is very robust, Anne. Anne: I've been at it for a while. Laya: I have a feeling. Exactly. But that does happen. And I think that, you know, what's really a blessing is that that shows that your work or that your body of work or that your presence is definitely garnering some attention. Now we can dive much deeper in how to make that even more attractive or build the SEO. And that's for another episode -- Anne: Yup, absolutely. Laya: But what's so great is that there are so many different buckets. Anne: Yup. Laya: In addition to those production houses, your own website, pay-to-plays, agents, we can also talk about, a little bit about the manager model, which is not new, certainly not in VO or in acting. It's evolved to kind of fit the new VO landscape and how work is coming in. I have enjoyed a recent success, a series of successes with ACM, the team over there, Mark Guss and the whole crew has been incredibly beneficial for me. But that manager model is very different as well. Anne: Yup. Laya: Now, for those that aren't aware where the agent is, usually if you're cast for something union or non-union has usually a different percentage that the agent gets paid. And that varies depending on whether you're union status or not -- Anne: Correct. Laya: -- or whether the casting house, the production company is paying over base, which again, another conversation. Now managers model is where they do acquire 10% or there's a percentage of your entire work picture, whether you book or not. And so that's definitely something to consider for those that are maybe way, you know, into their career or advancing or looking to level up from an agency model or add to their agency model. It's definitely not for everybody. I have had some great success with it, but it's again about nurturing those relationships and making sure you're giving as much as they're receiving and vice versa. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And in order for the whole relationship to work, it has to be, I want to say, almost 50, 50, right? You have to work with them -- Laya: Absolutely. Anne: -- as much as they have to work with you because you're giving 10% of the entire income that's coming in. I think that they work harder for you in terms of getting you work from various agents that they're working with. Or if they're, I would say clients that they're working with. Laya: Yeah. I will say this. And I, people ask me all the time, how has it been, you know, you shifted and you know, what are you getting out of it? I don't know, it's just a lot, you know, it seems like a big investment, and it is. But I will say this, like in the first month of being with ACM and this may not be the case for everyone, but I had more communication and opportunities and direct one-on-one communication. There's eight managers on my team over there. I had more communication in that one month than I did in three years with nine agents combined. So to me, the value was there, but it was also in part by me putting the effort in and making it a point to connect with everyone and to set meetings and to have that influence in my business because I'm paying for it. Anne: Well -- Laya: It's a mutual investment. Anne: And that's the thing, if you're -- okay. So here, if you look at it from a business standpoint, right? Why the manager model should work, right? If it didn't work, if you were not getting a lot out of your relationship, right, if you weren't getting a lot of opportunities, if you weren't booking, you wouldn't be happy with the management, right? Because you'd be paying, right, for all the work that you did. Laya: You'd demand more. Sure. Anne: That doesn't necessarily look good or sound good for the manager, and the manager, for them to keep their brand, right, and that they're a successful manager, right, they don't want to have an unhappy person. So the relationship, I think, has to be working both ways, and -- Laya: And I think that can happen there. Anne: -- you have to make money for them, they make money for you. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So. Laya: And same goes for the agents. And same goes -- a lot of people say, well, you would pay that. Or would you pay a membership fee on pay-to-plays -- like, everybody's got to make money -- Anne: Right. Laya: -- and can make money in this business. Anne: Exactly. Laya: It just has to become down to what investment is worth your while. Anne: Right. Laya: Is it working with a production house where your overall total fee is lower -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- but you have the volume and the repetition and the ease of work? Or is it investing in a management company where you have opportunities like you've never seen before? Anne: Right. Laya: Or is it an agency model? Anne: Yeah. Laya: I mean, all of those things I think can work for you, as long as you do the work, and you present yourself fully to that partnership and being very aware of everybody's role, and set your expectation too -- Anne: Right, right. Laya: -- as to what they can or cannot do for you. Anne: And just like in any relationship, if it doesn't work for you -- this is including managers, agents, pay-to-plays, even a client -- Laya: Production houses, clients, exactly. Anne: If that relationship does not work for you, then you have the opportunity -- which is what I love. We're entrepreneurs. We are our own business. We can absolutely step away from that, which is -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- what is it, is that, that's the whole beauty of being an entrepreneur, right? We don't have to work -- Laya: Yeah, you're in control. Exactly. Anne: We are in control. We don't have to work with a client that is not necessarily giving us a positive investment, right? Laya: Yeah. Anne: Or is working for us. So that's what the really wonderful thing is. And no matter how you go out there to get your opportunities -- and I think it's always, for me, it's, it can't just be one. Laya: No. Anne: Can't put all your eggs in one basket, right? It's a combination. I have agents, I have production houses. I have relationships with my clients. I have a good SEO on my website. And I have, I'm literally trying to provide myself with the best opportunities in order to be cast so that I can be a successful voiceover business. Laya: Yeah, that's right, Anne. And even if you're -- I would just say this too. I know there's a lot of scrutiny about every one of these avenues, right? And it's really all in how you use it to your advantage, and what your mindset is, and whether or not you're good with where your role is. I would say with pay-to-plays a lot of times, just having a presence on those pay-to-play sites, whether you're active or not, their SEO is going to be far greater than most of our -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- far greater than any of us can most -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- likely invest in our own SEO resources. Anne: Yeah. Laya: So even just to have your name and your demos up -- Anne: A profile. Laya: -- a profile, that in itself, I can't tell you how many opportunities I've gotten by just being on Voices or Voice123, by someone that found -- Anne: Having the profile. Laya: Exactly. Anne: Exactly. Laya: Because that drove me as a talent with a profile on a huge databank where people that are casting are looking for the quick solution. They find somebody they like, then they Google your name. Then they go to your website and they reach out to you. And I have gotten more jobs like that than probably any other avenue combined, to be honest with you. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: And it hasn't even needed to be an audition or fight about usage, et cetera, and these low rates of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. No, just let it work for you and be the driver that you need to get your name and your voice out there. Anne: Right. And however it works for you -- and to be honest with you, I actually -- not even do I have a profile on some of these pay-to-plays that I'm not necessarily active on, but I've also shared blog posts, meaning I have invited them to be a guest blogger on my blog. Laya: Great idea. Anne: So we have backlinks to one another. So it's kind of a really interesting way, but it kind of is like you're talking with a pay-to-plays. They do kind of have the SEO game going on with those terms that people might be searching for. And so that might make you think, whether you agree or not, to maybe just put a profile up there. Doesn't mean, you know, right now I'm personally just don't have -- I think I belong to two of them officially, but I don't have any time to necessarily audition. I don't remember the last time I've auditioned for a pay-to-play. Laya: Sure. Anne: But I also have pay-to-plays that I'm not a member of, but I do have a profile on. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So it all works towards people knowing who I am, what kind of business -- you know, it's all about who are you and what do you do for a living? Oh, she's a voiceover artist. I'm looking for one of those. Laya: Yes. Anne: So that all kind of plays into the game of getting that work, which is what we're supposed to do. That's our business. Laya: Yeah. Anne: Right? Getting that work. Laya: And I would say one more thing about just where to get work and how do you start, especially if you're in the startup or the bootstrapping stage of your BOSS business. You know, just letting everyone you know, know that you're down, down to talk down to, you know, do their work, do their IVR, do their phone system, voice their scratch track. Sometimes getting in with production houses is just as easy as saying, hey, no charge. I'm here to do your scratch tracks for you. You know, just so we can start building relationship. You can get to know my style and then potentially cast me in the future for something, but sometimes just letting people know what you do and what you're about. We often talk about how to use social, and Facebook for me, isn't necessarily a business driver. Anne: Right. Laya: But you bet that everybody I in my network knows that I talk for a living. Anne: Sure, absolutely. Laya: Because you never know when the opportunity is going to come up -- Anne: Even in your personal network. Laya: -- for something that they need absolutely. So don't overlook that. Anne: Yeah. And even if you say, well, I don't really advertise on my personal, right, or my Facebook or my social media, in reality, just you being you is -- because remember our brands are so personal -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: --- that you are an aspect of your business. I just wrote a blog on that. You know, it's something to always consider when you say put pen to paper or type to the post, always consider that, you know, there are eyeballs looking at that, and knowing that you are a voiceover artist, and this is what you do for a living. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So the more people that know, right, this is what you do, the more opportunities you will have. And so great, great discussion on how to get work and how to be known to agents, pay-to-plays, managers, production houses. Good stuff. Laya: Yeah. Thank you, Anne. This was super informative. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with me as well. Anne: Great, big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network like a BOSS and find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, be productive. Go get cast and have an amazing week. We'll talk to you next week. Laya: Take care. Bye-bye. Anne: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Bosses, your time is money. Don't waste a second of it! Anne + Laya dive deep into all the things that keep their businesses on track every day. From adding personal time to the calendar to automating follow up emails, you'll want to try it all. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, along with the amazing, happy new year, very special guest cohost Laya Hoffman. Laya, yay! Laya: Hey Anne, happy new year. Anne: Happy new year to you. How are you, Laya? Laya: Did you rock it? I'm great. I'm like ready to seize this year. Anne: Did I rock it? Like every new year's -- Laya: Did you rock it? Anne: I'm getting older now, so it's harder and harder. Laya: It's slower rocking. Anne: It's slower rocking for me, but you know what? I celebrate it just as much, however, I may not be awake exactly. Laya: Yeah. I mean, well, it's funny. I used to run nightclubs for a living, and so New Year's Eve was the biggest thing that we did all year long. And I can't even tell you the planning and the hours awake that I stayed. Anne: Oh, I can imagine. Laya: It's probably not something I would admit publicly. And here I am, but now I'm like to me, a rocking new year is in bed by 10. Anne: And you were probably the thing about that is you were probably working at the stroke of midnight. Laya: Oh working, oh, for sure. I was, I was on stage commanding the audience, doing the thing popped in the balloons. Oh yeah. The whole nine yards. Anne: The whole nine yards. Laya: These days, my rocket new year is much more low key. Yeah. Anne: And it got very confusing when my husband and I moved from the east coast to the west coast. Cause now we're like, well, okay, can we celebrate it at 9:00? Laya: Yes, you can. Yes, you can. Because the ball drops at 9:00. Absolutely. Anne: The ball drops at 9:00 out here. Laya: Yes, it does. Anne: And I still get confused. I don't know. We've been out here forever and I still get confused, but anyway. Laya: You can do it. You can do it. Anne: We go on. Laya: I say so. Anne: We go on. Laya: We go on to a better, brighter year, hopefully. Anne: That's right. Laya: Because gosh, I mean, we've had some success. We talked about this in the last episode. Anne: Yeah. Laya: There was a lot to look back on last year as being positive, and with this new growth mindset, we're walking into the new year, but we've got some good -- Anne: We've got work to do. Laya: -- ideas to share. Yes, we do. Anne: That's right. Laya: And we have to make this year the best yet. Anne: Yeah. So with all this work that we've already kind of like, here's what we want to do for our new year -- and of course, you know, over the actual time that you've had to think if you've had some time off, you might've come up with some more things that maybe you want to do for this new year, get yourself pumped up. So I think it's a great time to talk about, oh, how can I get this all organized? How can I be more productive with my time? Because I had a lot to do last year. And if I want to continue those, if I want to continue my brand and my parallel income streams, I still have a lot to do this year. So I want to know how can I do that more productively? Laya: That is a great question. I'm asking myself that all the time, but as a Virgo, A-typical personality, super organized and a little OCD, I think that for me, it starts with a bit of a daily checklist. And I mean, I don't always stick to it, but at least it's in my framework of which buckets of the business can I dip into and touch a little bit every day? So that's where my productivity window starts. How about you? Anne: Well, okay. So yeah, old school, old school, I have a to-do list. Laya: Your pen and paper. Anne: Yes, my pen and paper. And because I have to continue to make sure that I can actually write with a pen. It's interesting because when I write checks now like hand write checks, it's -- Laya: Oh yeah, your signature is all crazy. Anne: Yeah! Laya: Calligraphy is off. Anne: My calligraphy is off. Laya: Yeah. Anne: I feel like the pen doesn't fit right in my hand anymore. Laya: Yeah, isn't that crazy? Anne: And that's with my to-do list. I'm constantly scratching on my to-do list. And literally I have saved my to-do list for the past five years. And they're just these little, I have these wonderful, thin notebooks that I love to write in, lined. And I basically every single day, actually the night before, this is what helps me, I write down what I want to accomplish the next day or what I need to do for the next day. Laya: Love that. Anne: It doesn't always get crossed off because sometimes those tasks are, you know, multiple day tasks. But for me, what I love is, and I, and I remember you telling me, you like to cross those things off. I mean, that is like a -- Laya: I do. Anne: -- it's like a feel-good, I'm done, cross it off. I like that. I check beside it because I like to be able to see what I've done throughout the year. I still use that as kind of a checkpoint, but I also like to flip the page, right? To a new day, a clean -- Laya: A new day. Anne: -- slate. Laya: A clean slate. Absolutely. Anne: A clean slate, absolutely. And I make sure that that is the first thing that I do. Plus as I'm telling you, I'm getting a little older, my brain doesn't always remember everything that I have to do. Laya: Sure. Anne: So writing it down really helps cement this is what I have to do. It helps remind me of what I have to do. And the check mark is like so satisfying. Laya: Yes, it is. Well, speaking of that check mark, I actually have something maybe we are able to share with the BOSSes, like the actual document, but I created a VO business daily checklist for myself that is in those buckets. It has a few things. The buckets are, what do I do in my voice work? it's warm up stretch, vocalize, then all the way down the list into check emails, record and edit and deliver jobs, file all the work, you know, digital folders, et cetera, and make sure that -- Anne: Write the invoices. Laya: -- it's not all cluttered on the -- yes, the invoices, all of that. Then there's a bucket for business development. Then there's one for social, like stay active, but -- Anne: Love it. Laya: -- don't waste time here. That's a huge asterisk next to everything. Learn something new is another bucket and health and wellness is a bucket -- Anne: Nice. Laya: -- as we've talked about a lot before, so maybe I'll polish this thing up, and we can share it with our BOSSes. Anne: Yes, that sounds amazing. Laya: It's helpful. It's equal parts -- I print them out. I have it digitally, but then I can check them off and start a new page when everything's accomplished. Helps my mind stay focused and stay productive. Anne: Well, you know, what's really nice too, is if any of you guys are Mac users, the Notes, just the simple Notes application works great. You can create a checklist. Laya: Yes, it does. Anne: Yup. And what I love about it is you can check those things off and then you can see it nicely and neatly checked off. So if you aren't enthralled with your handwriting. Laya: No handwriting required. Anne: No handwriting required for the Notes version. And yeah, I think that that for me is the number one thing that helps me stay organized and be productive. And I'm going to talk a little bit about, 'cause you mentioned it, social media. I literally cannot have a social media window open when I am trying to be productive. I just -- Laya: Nope, nope, no notifications either for me. Anne: -- can't. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And even though I say to myself, I am advertising on social media, right? 'Cause I have events through my VO Peeps and my VO BOSS episodes I'm posting out there, and I want to make sure that I'm responding and engaging with the community. I cannot have the windows open for LinkedIn, for Facebook, for Instagram, for anything, if I'm trying to get something done. So I make sure that I have specific times during the day that I will open them up and check and then respond. Laya: Yes. I actually agree with that. And here's a tip for BOSSes. I use my social media, meaning Instagram and Facebook, the real, you know, schleppy social media channels, but are equally as important. I only check those in the morning over coffee, 8:00, 9:00. And then again in the evening, 5:00, 6:00. The reason I do is because those are peak times for engagement. And so if you are going to post, and people are going to engage, the chance of them seeing it is higher in those time points -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- as opposed to you posting it 2:00 in the afternoon or 9:00 at night. So those are great windows of opportunity for exposure and to compartmentalize. And then I check LinkedIn at lunchtime because that's when my business colleagues and people are most active on LinkedIn is straight in the middle of their day. It's going to trickle out on its own time, as we know about all these platforms. But for me, that's where I compartmentalize that time to make sure that I don't stay off. I'm not great at it, but that's where I like to stay. Anne: And I think it's been, I think that those specific times are really good. And you know, it's been an adjustment, I will say, because I know that people were more used to me being like immediately engaging on social media. And I know the past couple of years, I just cannot be immediately there to respond or comment when things come in, and it's okay. I've had to kind of be okay with that myself to not be as available out there. And I've always like stressed and worried. Well, if I don't respond, will I lose my audience? Laya: Oh gosh. Anne: But I think that that has been one of those things that I have had to really try to test out and see, okay, how many times do I need to revisit and engage with my audience before they figure, oh, this is just, nobody's really here. And I do know that I have certain social media avenues where people think I'm not there, and that I'm a robot. And that has been something that I've been really consciously trying to test out and rectify and figure out what is the -- is there a magical formula for when and how often I should revisit that? So that has been the last couple of years, it has been a definite like test on my part, and I've realized that I don't have to be there. And in reality, I think the way social media has gotten in the past where it's been a little more toxic, a little more frustrating, there are more people who are taking time off from social media. And it's a little more accepted that -- Laya: Oh, it's beyond accepted. Anne: -- I'm not there. Laya: And let me give you a perspective flip on the mindset of that. If I see somebody that's constantly on social media, like throughout the day, the first thing I think of is they're not busy in their work. Anne: Oh my goodness, yes. Laya: They're not successful because they're -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- wasting their time here if -- they wouldn't be here if they had jobs in the booth. So when I see people that are super active all day long, I think what are you doing in your business? You're just chatting or responding to people. Anne: I love that you say that. Laya: So the mindset flip there is like, hey, the perception, maybe to others, if I am responding so much, is that I don't have enough work in my business. Anne: Well, yeah. Laya: And nobody wants to feel that way. Anne: Nobody wants that. Laya: But that candidly is sometimes what I see when I -- and not in our industry necessarily, when I see other people that I think are successful creatives. I'm like, what are you, how do you have time to be on this at 2:00 in the afternoon? You know? And so that's just a different way to shift your perspective. Maybe that'll help. I don't know. Anne: No, I actually, I love that you said that because there will be times I will see certain people, if they're continually commenting, continually posting, and I'll be like, what? Like, and this sounds horrible, but like, stop, like, just be quiet. Like just want to say, why are you here so much? Laya: Yes. Anne: Like if you're that busy, why are you still talking? Laya: Or if you're that successful, how are you that -- there's no way you're that successful if you were spending half your day or you're checking in every hour or whatever it is. And it's a willpower thing. Right? And so I'm like, maybe you're a little weak in your willpower, or maybe you're a little weak in your self-esteem that you've got to be on this all the time -- Anne: Interesting. Laya: -- looking for re-encouragement or looking for engagement when you should just be in your business. So that's kind of where I stuck in my head when I felt the same way about you. I started to notice how I felt when I saw that type of activity. Anne: Yeah, I think it's always -- Laya: Maybe that's a hack. Anne: I think it's always good to look inward. So how you -- it's similar to, let's say emails, right? So if I got an email from somebody, and it was unsolicited and they're trying to sell me something, and I look at it and inside I go really? Like, and that is my initial reaction. I think that all BOSSes should look to that. In terms of before you post something, before you email something, before you do anything, how would you react if it was done to you? That kind of thing, you know? Right. I mean, it's just, it's like life lessons 101. Laya: Sure, sure. Anne: If that happened to you, how would you feel? And so there are so many people that are silently doing that to every move possibly that you make on social media or in an email. They're silently making assessments. That's how I'll put it, they're making assessments. Laya: Sure. Anne: And so -- Laya: That's what I was doing. I, so I totally agree with that. Yeah. Anne: I think it's a good check to find out should I post, should I say that? Should I do that? So in terms of helping me be more productive, it actually has helped me to be more productive to limit myself -- Laya: Good for you. Anne: -- limit my input on social media. So that is definitely a number two productivity hack so that I can get my job done and not be distracted. Laya: Time management. Anne: Yes. Laya: You know, it's about everything. And it also kind of comes down to how you format your day. I don't know about you, but a typical day for me will be I get up and I'll do my wellness exercises, my meditation, we've talked about that. Get some fresh air, take care of my kid, get right down to work. I'll usually address -- and I, and I do this in stages and kind of in blocks. And I've learned this through some of my other voiceover mentors, because it's very easy to get wrapped up and scattered in your brain as to, oh, I should. I got to just get these invoices. And I just take a little bit of time every day, but I keep it organized, right? I'll handle all my top priority clients and agent auditions first or jobs, but usually a job isn't -- for me because I work shortform, is not usually left to the next morning unless it has to be. But the warmups for me tend to sit there, and then I'll continue to block the day where if there's jobs, in between those jobs or those sessions, I know I've got invoicing later this afternoon, I'm going to do all my invoicing in one block. And so those block mentality, as you compartmentalize your day, can help you stay productive. And there's a lot of thought about that, like work for 50 minutes and then take that 10-minute break, get up, walk around, get a snack, get a drink, what have you. And so if you can block your day -- Anne: That's important. Laya: -- that also helps with productivity. Anne: Well, as a matter of fact, my sessions are 50 minutes long. So I have 10 minutes to just relax and/or prep for my next session. And I wanted to kind of go back in terms of communication with clients, right? In terms of any type of communication with clients that you might do over and over again, there's a really cool feature that I love in, well, I have two ways that I do it. One is in Gmail. Gmail has templates now. So if you have a certain message that you send over and over to, let's say, a new contact, "hi, thanks so much for contacting. It's a pleasure to meet you. I'd be thrilled to be the voice for your next project." And so those types of templates can be automatically filled through the Gmail templates. I also had another thing that I purchased before the Gmail template came out and that was called Type 4 Me. And that's on a Mac. Laya: Oh, okay. Anne: T-Y-P-E, 4, the number four, Me. And that allows me to have all of these little like clips of the same type of emails, even my response, like my "warm regards, comma, you know, new line, new line, Anne Ganguzza." Laya: Right. Anne: That is, that is a clip. And I can just in a keystroke and with one, I'll do it. Like, thank you. I think I do, uh, TYWR, then it pops in those words for me into the email. And that helps me so immensely. Laya: Thanks for that hack, Anne, because I am a Mac user, and I'm slightly jealous. I know there's a way to convert into using your email to, or Apple Mail to Gmail, but I missed from my old days, those canned email responses. And so what I do is -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- I have a document for that, but thank you for helping me to the Type 4 Me, for Mac. I knew there was something. Anne: There is. Laya: Because I do use canned email templates for a lot of things. I do -- I have one for generic inquiries, for generic corporate work or just what my kind of standard rates are. And that helps you streamline the process. Of course, I tweak and personalize where I need to and when I need to, but just like you see some templates features in some of the pay-to-plays, it's very helpful to -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- just continue to go back to that. I like to keep mine in Google docs, that way I can pull it from anywhere or in my notes, and it can be on my phone in case I'm on the go. And that makes sure that you don't miss anything when communicating quickly to a new client or sending -- Anne: Oh, it's so helpful. Laya: -- inquiry, right? So it's so key. Thanks for that, Type 4 Me. Anne: Type 4 Me. And I think also on the Mac, there is an auto-complete. If you type a few characters, there is an auto-complete, and you can set that up, and that's just comes with the operating system. However, I'm so used to -- and you might want to look into that. Laya: Sure. Anne: Just look into Mac iOS auto-complete, and see how you can enact that or enable that. But I love the type, the Type 4 Me is, it just pops up. It's a little application and I can just say, assign these few characters to this snippet. You know, so it's actually a snippet. Laya: Sure. Anne: And I love, love, love it, because it totally helps me. And I'll tell you another thing that helps me, which I found out a couple of years ago, because I do schedule meetings, and I'm in meetings quite a bit, not just with clients, but also with students. And so my other is a scheduling system, which is done through my Wix website that schedules on my calendar, integrates with my Google calendar, which by the way, I would not be able to live without my Google calendar. Laya: Same. Anne: Everything is scheduled into my Google calendar, and there's a lot of programs out there. Laya: My whole life. Anne: Yes, my life is Google calendar, and everything, there are lots of programs out there that integrate with a Google calendar. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So that is like another one of my hacks. Like literally here, if you want to talk to me or you want to get in touch with me, bang, go sign up for a free consult or just get on my calendar here. And those types of automations really help me to schedule when I can talk to people. Like I literally am scheduled out probably -- my days are pretty darn busy, but this is an ongoing thing with me. You literally need to get me at least a week or two in advance before I can fit you in. 'Cause I've got it so blocked out. Laya: Yeah. Anne: The biggest problem that I have is that if I don't block out time for me, then I have no time for me. That is an issue. Laya: Exactly. So you gotta be number one on your calendar. Anne: Yep. Laya: I agree with you in that I use Calendly, which I've found to be incredibly helpful, especially if you get into the customization. Because for me, I've got, of course I just spoke, I've got an Apple calendar and that does integrate with the Gmail calendars and things of that. I share a calendar with the household. My kid's got a calendar, you know, all of those things. If you're laser connected to Calendly and you can have your own VO calendar, from there, I compartmentalize whether you need a 15 minute precession chat or a SourceConnect test, or maybe you just need to talk about a project that's coming up. Maybe that's a 30 minute block. I've got my session blocks as well for an hour or 50 minutes. And that's helpful to send to my agents for instance -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- where they're like, hey, we just need to know your schedule. Like what's your general availability for the next two weeks? I'm like, here's my link to Calendly and -- Anne: Oh my God. That's a perfect idea. I love that. Laya: Send that over. Now the thing is though for me, I've chose not to add it to my website. The con for me -- pro would be that it's super easy. The con is that then I would have no control over who's booking. And so I have it embedded in a private link on my website. That private link also has my revisions policy -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- my professional services guarantee, and my resume in case somebody needs any of that old school, the old school resume information. Anne: Yup, yup. Laya: So I'll send that link to clients that are asking, or I'll just send the Calendly link for this specific time slot they're asking for which can be its own independent link. Like, hey, we just need a SourceConnect test. Well, here's all the 15 minute blocks that you could get in my schedule over the next infinity. So that to me has been a huge bonus hack as far as keeping things easy. And then you're not going back and forth with the well, yeah, 2:00 on Thursday -- Anne: Oh gosh, that takes up -- Laya: -- from this time to this time. Anne: -- so much time. Laya: You're actually -- and it makes you look way less professional and like you've got a system for your schedule, and that you're in demand. And so -- Anne: Well, yeah. Laya: -- I think that has, it serves many purposes. Anne: And I actually have it linked to my signature on my email. Laya: Nice. Anne: Here, set up a consult or whatever, schedule a chat with me. And so it just links to my scheduler, which is so, so helpful for me because you're right, the back and forth, "okay. So when are you available?" And I'm like, honestly, the best way to get in touch with me is here. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And I'll give them a link to my calendar to get on my calendar, and that just helps. And what's nice is it's automated. It has like, thank you. Here's how we're going to connect. You know -- Laya: Yes, same. Anne: -- it might be ipDTL, or it might be via phone call. It might be via Zoom. I've got all the different ways that you can connect with me. And it just makes my life so much easier. I'm going to say that when I implemented my schedule or my calendar, it literally saved me -- and it automated like sent out the emails. Laya: Yeah. Anne: Thank you for connecting. Here's your automated reminder. Laya: Yes, the follow-up on those are awesome. Anne: Oh, gosh, you can do follow-up. And the fact that it automated all of those emails saved me 50%, at least, of the time that I used to try to schedule people in at times and going back and forth with email. It just became really, really frustrating. Laya: Yeah. And the effort to become more accommodating to your clients, to your students, to whoever, even your friends, you end up wasting more of your time. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And so that's kind of a boundary set. That's really nice. And I love that you spoke to the automation on the backend. Anne: Yeah. Laya: Like I mentioned with Calendly, I can send an immediate reminder 15 minutes prior to session. Anne: Yup, yup. Laya: I can send a follow-up message two weeks after or a week after, or what have you, that says, hey, just checking in, making sure everything is clean with the audio, if you had any other needs. And so it takes that extra wheelhouse off of my mind. Of course, I still have my own method for following up with the client personally, but this just adds like this extra layer. And sometimes I'll get the response back, and they'll be like, oh, thank you so much for checking back in. And to be honest, I may have even forgotten and you know, to follow up or got so busy and something else. Anne: Yeah. Laya: So it saves just peace of mind and professionalism. It takes it to the next level. Anne: And I think also there are those programs or CRMs that can help you to -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- once you connect with your contact, after you've done the job, it can send out an automated email that said "thanks so much again, it was a pleasure working with you and keep me in mind for any additional projects. If you have any questions in the meantime, feel free to contact me here" and boom, and then are actual like on a Wix platform, I have a few drip campaigns that are set up that will automatically contact my clients. So if anybody's on a Wix platform, it is part of the Ascend platform that you -- it's an add-on for email marketing. And basically, so after you connect with a client, you can have a "if then" statement that says, if they open this email, then three days later, send this email or send a followup. And there's lots of different scenarios. So it's really great. So I'll give an example for a VO BOSS interview. If somebody inquires about I want to be on the veal BOSS show, it goes through a whole campaign. Here, sign up here, fill out this form here. The form then sends me all the information, and then it gives them a link to the calendar, which then allows them to schedule, which then there's an automated email that says, thank you so much. Here's how you're going to connect with Anne. It'll send a reminder right before the connection. And then a couple of days after the actual scheduled session, there'll be a thank you that goes out. So it's really awesome the way that it can automate. Laya: I love that. Anne: And there's more than just -- that's the Wix platform. I also have an Active Campaign that I send emails out from to my lists. I also have client lists that can also do automations like that. Laya: Yeah. I've seen some of that same functionality in using HubSpot, which is a free CRM solution. You can connect Zapient to MailChimp. Anne: Yes. Laya: You can connect it to -- Anne: Is it Zapient? Laya: Zap -- Zapient? Anne: Or is it Zapier? Is it Zapier or Zay-pier? I can't remember. Are they two different things? Laya: I think they may be one in the same. Anne: Okay. Laya: I'm not going to fact check myself in this moment, but -- Anne: if you start with zap -- Laya: There's a zap somewhere. There's a zap somewhere out there. Anne: I've used it myself. And it's great. Laya: It's great. Anne: So if this happens, then do that. It's a really wonderful free app that you can do things like that with. Laya: And you can pull content too. Like if you have a hard time pulling all your email addresses because you've got multiple email accounts, or you're trying to create more of a contact list -- in fact, I recently found out an automation was in that cog wheelhouse that pulls my contacts from QuickBooks and put it into MailChimp. So I don't have my CRM solution fully vetted out by any means. I need all the help in the world, but trying these different productivity hacks for automation, there are many solutions out there that can make your life easier and less laborious, you know? Anne: Absolutely. And one other thing I'm going to oh, totally, totally recommend is go ahead, be brave and outsource things that you just -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- don't want to spend your time doing, or it's too com -- I'm going to say like for me, accounting, I say it all the time. Everybody that's listened to any, to just one episode, I might say it every episode. I'm not sure, but outsourcing my accounting was the best thing I ever did for my business. Laya: Yeah. If you don't love it -- Anne: Don't love it. Laya: -- pay someone that does. Anne: And she's great. She's fast. She loves it. And I trust her. I trust her with my life. You know, she'd been doing my accounting for gosh, at least five years. So. Laya: And that's a great hack too. And I use somebody not for my voiceover business, but for the podcast. I have partnered with a very talented, very savvy copywriter, and she knows my style of I, and she creates a social media posts for the podcast that I do with my daughter, She Sounds Like Me. And I love it because it just takes that off my plate. But also we use a platform called Later, which is a social media scheduler. And what I love about that is that I can see what's coming. She can do a cross platform integration and schedule. I can approve it ahead of time. And then if I don't like where she's got it, or it doesn't feel quite right, or it's not timely, I can very easily shift the tiles. So it's either aesthetically pleasing or it's more on topic point or what have you. And that's become a seamless integration into my social media management. I've often thought about integrating it into my voiceover business page, but for me that's still very in the moment, very real time, very personal -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- and not exactly all that consistent at the moment because of just the last year of burnout. But I have found that Later is a great platform. And I feel like I've tried them all over the years, as far as social media scheduling goes. Anne: Yeah. Laya: So that one's pretty efficient. Yeah. Anne: I have a social media scheduler for, 'cause I have so many Facebook business pages, and Facebook for a while was really where a lot of my clients were. And so I have a Facebook scheduler, which also integrates with Twitter and LinkedIn. I can have so many social media to -- it's called Post Planner. Laya: Okay. Anne: And so I've been using that for years. And then also Facebook now has become, and/or Instagram, one in the same now, have their own scheduler now. Laya: Sure, they do. Anne: And so that has become fairly decent in terms of you can't schedule too far, but you can schedule out. So with the combination of those, I'm able to schedule the majority of my stuff out there. And then I will follow up with the engagement. Like I said, I can't be connected to social media every hour of the day, but when I do connect, that's when I engage and comment and respond and also post some interesting finds to my own timeline or add to what I've already posted before to keep it kind of fresh and not too predictable. Laya: Yeah. Absolutely. Another great resource that I've been loving because my days of graphic design or my experience there is limited -- I know what I like aesthetically, but there's no way I'm going to spend time creating unique graphics, whether it's for the show or for promoting the business or promoting something within the voiceover business, like we've done with the podcast. I love using Canva and I use Canva Pro for graphic design for so many things. Anne: Yay! Canva's amazing. Laya: And it's actually, yeah, speaking of integration and scheduling, Canva just introduced a scheduler within their platform. Anne: [gasps] Yes. Laya: And what I love to deep -- and take it to a next level, everyone asks who may not be savvy in those audio grams, where you're seeing how you've maybe just done a radio commercial, and you've gotten full permission from the client, you can use the spot on social or to promote your business, but they don't have moving imagery. So you grab the picture that represents the brand best or the concept or the campaign. And you overlay that audio on top. People are always asking, how did you do that? I use Headliner for that. Anne: Yup. Headliner's awesome. Laya: Love that. I use it for the podcast as well. And sometimes for some of my voice work or for my demos to make a moving image. But Canva now integrates with Headliner. Anne: Oh, amazing. Laya: So these, some of these systems are working together to not only plan, create, schedule, but overlay -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- all in an effort to be more productive, more cohesive, and save you time. Anne: I have to plus like 21,000 for Canva because that literally, you don't have to be a graphic artist -- Laya: No, it's so easy. Anne: -- which not many people I know. Laya: It's intuitive. Yeah. Anne: And so I would struggle with Adobe because I have the Creative Suite -- Laya: Same. Anne: -- but it's not something I use every single day. I'm not a graphic designer, and neither are necessarily anybody that's working with me to do to post social media. But Canva has just joined us together in happy, joyous unity. Laya: Oh, I love it. I love it for my teams too. Anne: Yup. Laya: Like I was saying about my social media manager, we have folders that are specific to that brand. Anne: Yup. Laya: I have folders that are specific to my voiceover business or Cyla's voiceover business. And so to go in there and have this asset library -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- and the membership is very inexpensive. Anne: It is. Laya: There is a free version -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and then an inexpensive version. I just make sure -- Anne: I use Pro. Laya: -- that these are part of my -- yeah, me too, to integrate that as part of my business cost, because those memberships can save you so much time, energy, and effort and up-level the look and feel of your brand and your professionalism. Anne: I didn't know they had scheduling. Now I'm going to have to check that out. Laya: Yeah. Anne: That's awesome. Laya: I don't know what it integrates with or if it's a standalone scheduler, but I love that it's there. It's, everybody's thinking along those same lines, you know? Anne: God, good stuff. Laya: For sure. Anne: BOSS productivity hacks. Laya: Love it. Anne: You guys BOSSes, we would love to hear your productivity hacks. So we've given you the best of ours. And I think I am really, really excited for an amazing year this year, Laya, and I know you are too. Laya: Yes, let's work smarter, not harder -- Anne: There you go. Laya: -- and be smart and productive in our VO BOSS businesses. Anne: And I'll tell you what else is smart. Our sponsor, ipDTL. Laya: Yes. Anne: I love, love, love ipDTL. It allows me to connect with Laya, with all of my clients and with every BOSS out there. So you can find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing, productive week. And we'll see you next week. Laya: And happy new year, absolutely. Anne: Yes. Happy new year. Bye, guys. Laya: Bye-bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

How's your vision board looking lately? Take time to lay out your ideas, hopes, and dreams for this upcoming year and establish a growth mindset that will move you forward! Anne and Laya discuss the tools and strategies they use to manifest outcomes within their own businesses, including tangible ways to create and maintain a healthier work/life balance in the midst of stressful times. Incorporate what works for you, from note-taking progress, to genre-specific training, developing tracking systems for career goals, or fostering mentorship opportunities - all while building a strong support system. Move beyond the resolutions this year, and focus on a truly life-changing new mindset of growth. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza with my amazing, very special guest cohost Laya Hoffman. Hey Laya. Laya: Hey Anne. Hey BOSSes. Nice to be back. Anne: Laya, you know, it's that time of the year -- Laya: It is. Anne: -- towards the end of the year, where we look forward to an amazing new year coming to our BOSS enterprises and our lives. And so I thought it'd be a great time to discuss a new mindset for a new year. Laya: Absolutely. It's all about setting the intention, the reflection of the year, and the things we learned about what we just went through. And man, we've learned a lot. Anne: Oh gosh. Every year I think I learn more, and I hope that for you BOSSes out there that it is the same. As you go from year to year, you're building, you're growing, you're learning. And I think I'd love to share some tips with you about maybe how I get a great start to my New Year's or I try to get a good start to my new year by setting my mind for growth. Laya: Absolutely. That growth mindset is essential. And I love all of our conversations up to this point because they've kind of stacked up into this perfect equation of some of the ideas that we can really dive deep into, but let's list them out today and go through some of the intention-setting for how to prepare yourself for the year ahead. Anne: Sure. Absolutely. Well, I think the first thing you have to do is just really sit down and take a good look at what happened to you this year. Pay attention to what you did month after month. And hopefully you have some sort of a system where -- I have my to-do lists that I jot down and I actually don't throw those to-do lists away. Laya: Really? Anne: Yeah. Laya: That's cool. Anne: It's just like a running list in a notepad right now. I mean I'm old school, right? So I have a piece of paper, and I think it's the only way that I still write to be honest with you other than typing on my computer. I actually write on my to-do list. And so I have a record of what has happened from day to day. And I think looking back on that, it really helps me to understand like where I've been, what projects I've been working on, what new clients I've gotten, what clients I'm following up with, and really gives me a nice like diary or a journal of almost like my to-do's and my accomplishments for the year. Laya: I love that. Yeah, I do something similar. My to-do lists usually gets scratched off as I feel accomplished. If like -- it's like the zero inbox thing. I'm like oh God, crumpled up and throw those out. But what I do is reflect back in kind of my journaling and a lot of what we had talked about in a previous episode about kind of, well, manifestation, right? And so at some point, sometimes twice a year, I'll do my manifestation list of the things that I want to achieve. And then sometimes it's nice to go back and revisit those lists and be like, wow! That actually happened. Or I have work to do if I really want to still get that done and stay focused. So I love taking another step from that and journaling kind of like my pows and my wows, as my daughter would say, which is like, what were the things I was most stoked about this last year that I achieved and what kind of was a low point, but what did I learn from those low points to achieve or apply and do better next year? So I do a version of what you're saying and kind of incorporate that, uh, manifestation process in that too. Anne: Yeah. So what is your next, right? What is your next, I guess, rung on the ladder? I like to think that I climb upwards and grow towards success. And there is one thing I do want to point out that growing your business year after year, it is, it's a little stressful sometimes. Laya: Yeah. Anne: It can really kind of play with your mental brain a little bit because it's scary. Laya: It is. Anne: And I am the first one to admit, it's like, where do I go from here? It's like, wow, how can I grow? And it really forces me to sit back and think about, okay, what do I want to do this year? It's not just a money goal. A lot of times though I like to incorporate numbers though in my, this is what I want to achieve next. Laya: Sure. Those are hard and fast rates in the market, right? Anne: Exactly. Exactly. But it's not just the numbers. It's also what I want to do. What new endeavors do I want to, you know, embark on? Do I want to maybe start a podcast, right? Or maybe -- not necessarily me right now -- I love my VO BOSS podcast, but how can I grow the podcast or how can I grow my voiceover performance? Should I study? Should I look for the next great client? How am I going to do that? Should I step up my marketing? All of those things, what is going to be that next place that I'm going to go that I didn't do last year? Right? Laya: Yeah. Anne: So I want at least one brand new thing that might scare me -- Laya: Yes! Anne: -- to really go for that and try to achieve. Laya: Well, I totally agree with that. In fact, one of the best things about being your own BOSS in this voiceover space is that there are so many layers to peel back, and there is always room for growth, which is a beautiful thing. You know, we don't really ever reach peak status unless you really are the best of the best, but even then we're always learning, and we're always growing. I agree with that completely. I see myself in a twofold space. You know, of course I had a monetary goal at first, and I wanted to surpass that, and I want to double or build on that as I go throughout the years, but I also want to break new ground in different genres. So for instance, and I would love to know yours, 'cause I think it's a little peek behind the curtain, but for me personally, my next rung would be to break into network promos. Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: I've been working really hard on it. I have a beautiful demo. We're both up for an award. Anne: Yes, congratulations. Laya: Yes, congratulations. I think by the time this airs, we may know the turn of that. Anne: That's right. Laya: But what a great honor, and to be able to break into a new genre is really important. That's a win for me. And that's something, that's the next rung for me. What about you? Anne: Oh goodness. So I have a lot of things that I'm thinking. You know, I've always, I always want to grow my businesses more or I want to consolidate them so that my time is better, more efficient. Laya: Yeah, work smarter, not harder. Anne: Exactly, more streamlined. So that's always a challenge to me, especially because I dabble in multiple income streams, and I do have people who work for me. And so it's trying to organize those people to be more efficient, and then also kind of grow with me and then figure out how I can best implement the team so that -- it's an interesting thing when you have a team of people that work with you. It's always trying to make sure that they're joyful and happy and want to work for you because it's just as a good thing all around. You know, if you have people that really believe in the goals and work toward the goals with you, and that is, that's a difficult thing when you're working with people that also have their own business. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So that's kind of a mindset, kind of a culture that I'm looking to nurture and grow as well, so that I can continue to keep anyone that's on my team, you know, happy and willing and wanting to work for the team. And you know, the VO BOSS team is amazing, and they do all sorts of wonderful things for me here. And, uh, I'm very grateful, and I want to continue to work on how we can grow together. Laya: Yeah. That's definitely a next rung thing. And you speak about something we've referenced personally, managing up, stretching your role -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- but also handing off our responsibilities that may be better served for an expert in that particular field -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and really utilizing your resource pool to scale. So, you know, that's a great goal to achieve. Yeah. Anne: That's a goal I continue to work on, and then I've got a new goal of something that I've never done before that I'm looking forward to do -- Laya: What's that? Anne: -- in the next couple of years. That is to author a book or two. Laya: Oh, that would be awesome. Anne: Yes. I've got a couple of thoughts in the back of my head, and I'm starting to research options and how to achieve that. Laya: Yes. Anne: So, I'm excited about that. That's something that I haven't done. No doubt, if I jot down my intentions, I am fairly confident that I'm going to be able to achieve that. Laya: Manifest it. Yes, you will. Anne: Yes. Laya: That's exactly right. And it's a great time to do that. So like, even if you could dream big, and you've got a far reaching goal, this is a great time personally to take that inventory and write it down. Anne: Yup. Laya: People often ask what manifestation is, and you spoke just to it. It's like, write it down, make it your intention. You don't have to necessarily put it in your focal point every single day. But if you put out there in the universe that's what you want, you never know, that might be what you attract. Right? Anne: Exactly. Laya: It's a great intention to put out there. I see you doing it. Yeah. Anne: I've always, and I say this in multiple episodes, or if you've listened to any other BOSS episode, I really run my business in my life with my gut. And so if I put it out there, and I believe in it, I usually find the way to make that come true. Laya: Yes. Anne: Even if I don't make it come true in the way that I originally thought, I have certainly learned a ton along the way, and actually revised it to a point where it works better than the original intent. So I'm very, very happy. I really believe that it is, it's something that has always, always worked for me. And I believe that it can work for anybody if they -- Laya: I would agree. Yes. Anne: Yeah. Laya: You trust that gut. Anne: Yeah. Laya: I mean, it, that, grateful for the gut, right? Anne: Yeah. Laya: It guides us. Anne: It really does. Laya: And if you tapped into that, that's when it can feel really great. And you know that you're on the right path for yourself. So. Anne: One thing though, after all of these goals and manifestations, I was going to say, and I look to you for this -- I need to create a better work-life balance because anybody that knows me knows me, I'm a little bit of a workaholic, so that's on my to-do list, but I know that you can really speak to that probably more so than I can. Laya: Well, maybe it's just because the kid factor keeps me on my toes -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and I feel like I have to segment that. And also just knowing the grace that we all needed this last year, I put that work-life balance in place to give myself some relief to look forward to in the way of vacations and whatnot. But yeah, I've heard recently, it's not just a 9-5. We know that our voiceover business is so much more than that. And you do have to be available at the ready, but yeah, putting some boundaries in place is okay, and is okay and actually creates respect and accountability for yourself, for your clients, and the people that work for you and with you. So I think that that is key, Anne. Let's give you a day off every week. Anne: Right? Laya: Let's give you a time off to turn it off, Anne. Let's do that. Anne: And it's funny because I also want to mention that when I work with my students, I have some students who work full-time, and then they're pursuing this on a part-time basis. And you know what? I need to take my own advice because here's what happens. When you get into the booth, and you are stressed out beyond belief, or you're tired, you're running, you've got family, you've got a full-time job, you've got maybe another part-time job or you're trying to work on voiceover, when you get in that studio, all of that comes out in your voice -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- if you are not centered and relaxed. Laya: That's right. Anne: And so it will affect your performance. So in reality, having that work-life balance is actually going to make you a better performer. Laya: I agree with that. I can feel the stress when I just feel like I have not had any me time, and you can hear it. Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: You can feel it in the voice. I mean, these microphones amplify us, right? And so it amplifies that energy. And I think that if you don't make that time, and you don't give yourself that grace and the breaks, then you can't come back refueled, and eventually that'll lead to either resentment or frustration or burnout. And then it won't nurture the most authentic, true meaning of this business, which is to do it because you love it. Right? And so I commend -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- people that are doing it on the side and then working to get to that full-time place. Anne: Yes. Laya: We've all been there. Anne: It's so hard. Laya: Yes, it is. Anne: It is. Laya: And it really does take some very diligent time management so that you can make sure you're being your best self to yourself, your businesses, whatever your current employer is -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and your future boss, which is yourself. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. So, yeah, work-life balance is high on that list for next year for me. Laya: I'm going to hold you accountable, Anne. I'm gonna check in next month and see where you're at with that. Anne: Okay. So besides new genres, what about, what else for you? You have anything else? Laya: You know, I really like to continue to find and nurture that mentor-like network. We've talked about it before, the people on the compass, my north star. Make sure to nurture those relationships so that they stay healthy, and I stay accountable, and also giving as much as I'm receiving. You know, mentoring someone else that's coming up, reaching my hand down or out to the sides and pulling my people in and sharing this information. It's one great reason or result of this podcast is being able to spread information and share and be a resource -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- to fellow talent, but not just within our genre and our industry, but in others. I mentor young women, my daughter, other young female entrepreneurs, is something that's very important to me. So that's something that I'll be looking for. Not only continue to nurture my relationship with my mentors, but also create new relationships and become a mentor. How about you? Anne: Yeah. And I think really find the time to have a mentor. And that has been something I've been guilty of just because I'm working many different brands, many different things that I'm doing. And I have been on a search for a mentor, and I've actually met someone this year that I'm really going to pursue that mentorship with because -- and this is a mentor that's actually outside of the industry. Laya: Yeah, which is totally cool. Right? Like -- Anne: I love it, yes. Laya: -- you can glean so much from that. Good for you. Anne: I love it. Because what it does is it gives me a perspective that I don't have when I'm inside, in the voiceover industry. This gives me a different perspective and really takes me to a place where I can like, kind of come out of the box and think in a broader term, how can I reach a broader audience and how can I stretch myself even further? That's the most important because sometimes just thinking myself, what can I do to grow? It's hard to come up with ideas, right? And so a mentor, and especially when I think that's outside of the industry, for me, it's a business mentor, you know, here's what you need to really consider to grow. And this is what I did, and this is what I experienced and there's, it just, it really opened up a whole new world for me meeting this mentor that I'm really going to make it a point next year to have some consistent meetings with my mentor to help inspire me. Laya: Yeah. I love that. And in addition to that, if a mentor may not be in your space right now, I also work with a life coach who is -- Anne: Oh, nice. Laya: -- not just a therapist, but they coach me both on my business, how I'm presenting myself in the world. She's a very recognized, successful business woman herself. And so she kind of plays both roles. Of course, I pay her for that, right? Anne: Yeah, well. Laya: So it's not just a free trade of information -- Anne: It's an investment, right? Laya: It is an investment, but it's an investment in myself and my business. And she kind of, I found someone that bridges the lines between kind of a personal talk therapy style and more strategy on the overall big picture for lifestyle and then business sense. So I've tapped into someone in that space, again, outside of our industry -- Anne: Nice. Laya: -- that helps me cultivate the best of all those pockets. And that's become really essential to my mental wellness, my emotional wellbeing as well. So something that's very cool, and I would highly recommend to anybody else that's looking to spread that experience out. Anne: Yeah. I completely, completely agree. And yeah. Look to the outside. Laya: Yeah. Anne: Look to the outside, that would be my top suggestion for a mentor. Unless of course, if you're just getting into the industry, a mentor in the industry is absolutely very helpful. Actually find a couple of mentors. Laya: Yeah. Absolutely. Anne: Right? Laya: Somebody on every side of the compass, somebody beneath you, you know, to yourself, somebody above you, and the east and west, that you can bring them in. Like my friend Kelly Buttrick says, it's a great analogy because it keeps it in perspective to go full circle, 360 and to be outside of your ego, which is key in any industry. Anne: Oh yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And so, so important, I think, in order to actually keep yourself, I would say, keep track, to keep yourself grounded, and to also keep yourself moving forward mentally and physically believe it or not, make sure that you are taking those successes that you've seen this past year and write them down. Take a moment to sit there and write down. For example, in my journals, I don't necessarily document, oh, this was a success, but I think you need to sit down at a moment if you haven't done this already and document your successes this past year, because that's going to really give you a great point to identify here's where I am. And now this is where I want to be. And plus it's, I think it's amazing to really give yourself that positive boost in terms of where you've progressed in your voiceover career, because sometimes it's really difficult. I mean, you're only thinking about the last thing that you just did, which was, oh my gosh, you know, I've auditioned a hundred times, and I haven't gotten anything. And so that tends to sit in your brain. So if you can actually think beyond this past day or week and really document, where did you start and how far have you come? What are your successes? And they can be, they don't have to be huge successes. It doesn't have to be, oh, I booked a gig. It could be, I started my website. I wrote my bio, you know, whatever it is, I coached with so-and-so. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And so it can be small things because they all add up. Laya: They sure do. And I've got actually a new practice this year for myself that kind of speaks to this. That might be helpful for some BOSSes. It's just kind of an interesting way that I've documented my success. And what I did was I took a Google spreadsheet that I can pick up from anywhere, from my cell phone or from my computers. And anytime I get a call back or make a real contact or some headway with either one of my managers or one of my agents, I document that in this one spreadsheet. It's organized by agent or manager -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- whether it was a booking or a call back or a hold. And just so I can see kind of how I've stacked up, because you forget those things as the year goes on. Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: You might see or remember the booking or you remember the project, but sometimes you don't remember all those touch points in between, and those are wins too. So maybe you didn't book the job, but that production company, you know, asked for a callback for you. Anne: Exactly. Laya: Or you were given the opportunity to be on hold. Maybe you didn't finally book it, but that's a win. Jeffrey Umberger would state that all of those touch points and those opportunities are essentially as good as a booking -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- because you got right up there in front and you were a top contender. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: And so tracking those things for me has been helpful because then I can look back and see what kind of value I provided to my partners. And it does make you feel a little bit better about where you're sitting status wise, whether you were a great partner in return, and how you are resonating with those managers or agents or partners in your life. So that's something I incorporated this year and I find it to be incredibly eye-opening looking back. Anne: Totally agree. And especially, I want to reemphasize for those of you just starting out in the industry, where you may not be booking gigs every other day or every day. And as a matter of fact, by the way, that's a really difficult thing to do. Even as a veteran in the industry, it's hard. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So we all, we all go through that. So I think it's even more important for you to document those little touch points, those little successes, so that you can actually really see and be encouraged because there's so many students that start out, and they'll come back to me and they'll say, I don't know what's wrong with me. I'm not booking. I just don't know, you know, help me. And I remember it so very vividly when I started out and trust me, it happens. Laya: Oh yeah. Anne: It happens to all of us in the beginning. It's so difficult to kind of get the traction in the industry, and you just have to have faith. Be patient, know that if in your heart, you're working towards your goals -- Laya: You will get there. Anne: -- you're, um, you're manifesting, you will get there, you will get there. And that's why I think those documenting those little successes is so very important, and hang it up in your studio. Laya: Yeah. Anne: I mean, I love that, like -- Laya: A visual. Anne: -- have a little vision board or, you know, I have some students that put sticky notes in their studio. Sometimes they'll put sticky notes to remind themselves about performance issues like don't breathe or whatever, but also I think you should put sticky notes in your booth that have successes on them to really keep your mental state in a powerful and positive mode when you're in there and continuing to audition. Laya: Absolutely. I remember when I started out, if I can just share some vulnerability with you and our listeners -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- is that I think I was tracking my auditions, but very vaguely. You know, sometimes in those pay-to-plays you can see how many auditions you did and we'll get to that, I'm sure, in a future episode, but what you can also see is just how many MP3s you've saved in your folders. And it's pretty easy to take a look at the stack as you start to archive and organize your files. But I think I was at like 1000:1 ratio for a while. Anne: For booking? Laya: Oh yeah. For a while. And it was part of the learning process. And I would try really hard and get super frustrated. But when I got that one, it was a huge win. And when I looked to start creating a website or when I was starting to look for a great coach, those were all really big wins. Anne: Yeah. Laya: So I'm with you -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- especially early on, it can take a lot of wind out of your sails to see some of those tracking -- Anne: Oh my goodness. Laya: -- and documents of your quote success or your work, but it's much better to focus on the successes. So you're absolutely right, Anne. Anne: Oh yeah. And I'll tell you, yeah. When I, and my vulnerability, when I was first beginning too, absolutely, I kept track of my auditions. I kept track of what I booked. And I remember at one point, like literally I was in tears, and I will write out, admit that. Laya: Sure. Anne: Like literally in tears, more than once, frustrated just saying, oh my gosh, I don't belong here. What am I doing? I just quit my job. You know, that kind of thing. Or -- Laya: Same. Anne: -- should I quit? Like what, what is going on here? And so just know BOSSes that those little successes are going to mean a whole lot, and just know that we've all been there, and you can make this new year and amazing year for you -- Laya: You sure can. Anne: -- with a new mindset. Laya: And I think part of that new mindset is relinquishing the pressure or the self-doubt and just changing your focus from a scarcity mindset like there's just not enough. I don't fit in here. There's not enough money coming to me. And going back to something we've talked about in the past is just staying open to the abundance of life. There's plenty of work for all of us out there. There's new mediums and new technologies all the time. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: There's an ear out there that your voice resonates with. It's just about honing it in and getting comfortable in yourself and having an abundant mindset as opposed to a scarcity mindset. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And that is something I got to check in with myself on the regular. Anne: Oh yeah, yeah, we all do . Laya: I do not claim to have perfection there, but as you move into the new year, if you can have an abundant and open and grateful mindset and be excited about the opportunities and your achievements, as, no matter how small or big, then you're on the right track for the year ahead. Anne: Yeah. You know, I also think it's a good thing outside of what's manifesting where you want to be in that next year, is take any part of your business or even your lifestyle or life skills and learn a new one. Pick something new that you want to learn that can help grow your business grow -- because I feel because we are such an intimate part of our own business. I mean, it's our voice. So whether you put that into a work-related skill or a life skill, I think that it all will help to build your business because we are such an inherent part of our own brand. I mean, obviously, more so than any other job that I know out there. I mean actors and voice actors, we are our own products. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So learn something new, and maybe learn something new that I don't know that you didn't think you wanted to learn because sometimes that'll either reinforce the fact that, oh, God, I really don't need to do this. And I might outsource it. That's also a growth mindset in terms of let me invest in outsource. Laya: You're like, yeah, that didn't work for me. Moving on. Anne: Or maybe you'll learn it, and it won't be as hard as you thought it was, like marketing. I know there's so many people that are afraid to market. They're afraid to get out there, but I say, give yourself some small goals to learn new parts of either marketing or I don't know, writing a new bio for your website, getting a website, understanding technologically, what you need to do to get that SourceConnect connection or -- Laya: Yeah, learn that stuff. Anne: -- ipDTL, learn that stuff. There's so many things that are outside of just the performance part of that. Learn more about sound -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- acoustics. Laya: Yes. Anne: So many, so many things that you can do. Laya: Engineering. Anne: And I know there's so many people that are afraid of the technology that it takes to create good audio files and just create good audio, but go ahead and take a class on it. And even if you're not good at the computer, I have people that are not necessarily technologically -- they'll label themselves, I'm not good at technology. Well, take a computer class. Laya: Yeah. Anne: I mean, just something as simple as that can really help you because gosh knows that this is what we do on a day-to-day basis, is work on our computers in some form or fashion, either marketing or creating audio or editing audio, all that good stuff. But I think put one new skill out there for you to learn and then document your progress. And I think you're going to be surprisingly impressed with yourself. Laya: You never know what's either going to light a complete fire under you and reignite something inside yourself from a creative standpoint or just mindset or, you know, skillset that is really going to inspire to push you in a different direction or push your skills outside or grow you inside and out. And those are some of the things that I mark as some of my highlights of last year. I never thought getting into promos was going to be the genre for me. But man, when I started, I loved it so much. It gave me a whole new appreciation for the power of our voice and for storytelling and for the psychology behind how we use our voice in this particular genre. And so I'm excited to introduce new genres that make sense for me, because I'm so inspired by the spark that that education gave to me, similarly to how you know, oh man, I actually could create my own website, and I did it and I'm proud of myself. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And so you either realize that, or just like you said, you realize that's not for me. Let's move. Anne: Exactly. Laya: But you'll never know unless you try. Right? Anne: Learn something new. Laya: So it's a beautiful thing to push yourself there. Yeah, for sure. Anne: And I think all of you witnessed my last series on AI and voice. That was an educational journey for me. That was learning new skills. That was learning something new in the industry that people are not comfortable with that. So, and I knew that as well, but I wanted to make sure that I educated myself on it so it wasn't as scary. Laya: Yep. Anne: And so that was the purpose. Laya: Takes the fear out. Anne: And everybody kind of witnessed me going through my own educational journey and learning something new. Hopefully everybody else benefited from that as well, if they took the challenge to learn something new. So I think that it's a real important part of mindset for your new year to, you know, have those goals, and they don't have to be huge goals. They don't have to be -- as a matter of fact, sometimes huge goals are, you're defeated when you start, because you already feel overwhelmed. Laya: They're daunting. Right, right. Anne: Yeah. So it could be just something simple, you know, for a new job-related skill. Maybe it's like, install Grammarly, you know, which I need all the time, Grammarly on my computer so I can spell things correctly, but just, it could be something very, very simple. And I think you will find that once you master that, and see I'm manifesting for everybody, that you will master that skill. And again, if you don't master the skill, then, well we know what you don't know what you don't like. So -- Laya: Yeah, thank you, next. Anne: -- always a learning, always a learning experience. Laya: These are awesome tips on how to create a growth mindset for yourself. And what I love is if you're doing that for yourself, you never know how that's going to radiate out -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and help the people around you, the family you love, your support system, whatever your network may be, continue to grow and see the opportunities ahead of you. So if it's not a resolution, at least make it a growth mindset. And I think that there is no way to see anything less but good to come out of that. You know? Anne: Yeah, I like that. So we aren't going to make any resolutions. We're simply going to look forward in the year and maybe not call it a resolution because that has such a stigma attached to it. Laya: It does. Anne: You know, sometimes people are already feel like, well, after day one and I'm going to work out every day next year. I know that that is like the, the age old here's what I'm going to do next year. But you guys, you are BOSSes to the absolute 100th degree. So I have the faith. Laya has faith in you. We all have faith in you. So I say, go forth and make 2022 an amazing, amazing year. Laya: Yes. Happy new year, everybody. Have that growth mindset and keep it going, positive direction. Yep. Anne: Okay. Big shout-out to my sponsor that we know and love. Happy, happy new year, and looking forward to many more connections in the future -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- with ipDTL. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing rest of your week, and happy, happy 2022. Thanks! Bye. Laya: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

There's no off season in voice over - which can be a blessing and a curse! Being on the road in VO requires careful consideration of equipment, environment, your clients' needs, your business goals, and your own sanity(!). Anne and Laya chat vacations and voice over, including what it takes to maintain a complicated artist work/life balance while traveling. They'll tell you how to reduce your anxiety level while heading out on the road by putting together an organized mobile studio and communicating with your agents, managers, and clients + offer tips about how to set healthy boundaries around your business. Get ready for your next trip with #VOBOSS advice and recommendations… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, along with my amazing, lovely, wonderful guest co-host Laya Hoffman. Hey Laya. Laya: Hey Anne. It's nice to be back, loving these convos of course. And we've already shared so much. This is getting good. Anne: I know, nice to be back. Speaking of which, Laya, I think you just came back from vacation, and if I'm not mistaken, you did mention that you might be going somewhere else soon. So let's talk about this. Laya: Crazy. Anne: You're a busy voice talent. So let's talk about VO on the road. And if, do you do VO on the road while you're on vacation? Laya: Yes. Every time, because I think it goes without fail, the second you leave is when the call comes in, right? Anne: Always. Laya: Like always, either that client you've been dying to nag or an ongoing campaign or something that just is on fire. It always happens when you go on the road. Anne: When you go on vacation. It's so true. I want to go on the road every other day now because this guarantees me a job. So, but going on the road, going on the road does require, you know, a special travel rig. It requires a -- a special mentality because when you go on the road, I mean vacation, are you really on vacation if you're working? That's the question. Laya: Yeah, yes. It is true. And it kind of, you know, you have to strike a balance. My family is like, oh you know, mom, you're going to bring your rig. Yes. Because mom's going to pay for vacation this way. Anne: This is going to pay for your next meal. No. Laya: Exactly. So there's so many nuances about it, and yeah, there's different schools of thought. I think I'm still green enough in my career in cultivating my client list and my reputation and my partnerships with management and agents, I know that I want to be available. Now, I also put boundaries in place that I'm not available. So it's not like every vacation all the time. Anne: Right. Laya: So let's talk about it. Yeah? Anne: Well I think, yeah, I think absolutely, number one, it depends on what genre, right, you specialize in. Laya: Sure. Anne: Exactly how changed you might be, right, to being available 24/7. I think obviously if you do promos, I mean, you actually sign contracts so that you can be available on a day-to-day basis and you. Laya: Yes, like golden handcuffs, right, right? Anne: Like golden handcuffs. Also, if you're, you know, commercial work, a lot of times, it's like we needed it yesterday. Anything that's broadcast. I know for myself, I do a lot of the long format narration, which I can build in a little bit of time with that. So I think that -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- all of that contributes to whether or not I bring my microphone on the road with me, and I will be honest, for the past, you know, years, I always have, because I never wanted to give up that opportunity. And I also have agents who, you know, when they send me an audition, I better be able to get them that audition back because I don't want to, number one, jeopardize that relationship with the agent, nor do I want to pass up an opportunity that might work for me. Laya: Sure. Anne: So even if I'm doing an audition on the phone, you know, in my car, although I, I have to say, I try to not do that. I try to, well, let me bring my microphone. I really want it to sound good. Laya: Yeah, yeah. Anne: And so thus begins well, what does my travel rig look like? And we can talk about that in a little bit, but what about you? Laya: I feel the same way. You know, like I said, to me, I've gotten my rig down so small and compact, and you know, I use a Sennheiser 416. It gives a premium sound in most situations. Anne: You know, I'm gonna stop you there and agree with you wholeheartedly. Laya: Okay, good. Anne: Just, and I'm gonna let you continue in just a minute, but I do want to say, I don't know why it took me so long to realize that I really should take a 416 with me because most spaces are not optimal. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And the 416 helps me to create awesome sound. So please continue on. Laya: Yes. Anne: I'm right there with you on the 416. Laya: Yes. I'm on it right now. She's my babe. Anne: Yup. Laya: And I think because the rig is, I've gotten it down so compact, it's easy for me to grab my pack and go. But also, like I said, I want to cultivate those relationships. I want to be available. I also, my focus is short form. I'm really trying hard to get into promos. And I've seen quite a bit of opportunities lately. I don't want to miss. Those are usually last minute on fire, need it now auditions. Anne: Yup. Laya: And I want to show the producers, the creative teams, my, my partners that believe in me that I'm there to deliver. And I want those opportunities, you know, I'm going to strike while the iron's hot. So, uh, that, that doesn't bother me. It actually gives me great joy to be able to travel and take my work with me in the nicest way possible. You know? So I'm good with it. Anne: And you know, what else? Um, to be quite honest, I mean, I don't know anyone that takes their travel rig with them and works eight hours a day. Do you know what I mean? Laya: No, yeah. Anne: It just, it's either that audition that's like, oh, boom, I need that right away. Or I need this commercial right away. So if it's a short form kind of a deal, it doesn't always take us hours upon hours away from our families on vacation. So that time could maybe be done when, I don't know, people are napping, right? Laya: Yes, yes. Anne: So that doesn't necessarily take away from the togetherness of your trip. And that was always my kind of theory was, you know, I'll take those times because they, they tend to be not hours and hours of time. It's maybe an hour here, maybe a couple of hours here. It really depends, but it's not an entire day. And so I feel that I can enjoy my vacation once I'm done with that audition or done with that short job that I'll get. And it never takes me completely away. Laya: You're absolutely right about that. And it also kind of gives me peace of mind. I have brought my rig and not needed to unpack it or use it on a few family vacations recently. You know, when the world kind of opened up again, we planned many little excursions to kind of get that travel, you know, get out, and then things changed a little bit. So we stacked the deck a little hard towards the end of this year. And while it's giving me a little bit of anxiety because of how busy things are in the booth, to have that ability to take it, but not necessarily need to use your rig, is okay too. Anne: Right. Laya: It gives me peace of mind as an entrepreneur to say, I have it if I need it, but I don't need to pull the trigger, and I don't need to focus on that work. So I kind of put a loose boundary around that. And then also it just helps give peace of mind to my partners, my agents, my clients to say, I have it, but you should know, I may not be available for directed sessions during this time -- Anne: Exactly. Laya: -- or something like that, or only if it's the right situation. And so let's talk about how do we let people know that we are going on the road? Anne: Well, I'm so glad you asked because in my BOSS Blast, and I'm just -- shameless plug for the VO BOSS Blast -- every time when we communicate with our potential clients on our list, we will give bookout dates. And as we mentioned before, the best time, the best time to get all those jobs is when you go on vacation, right? Laya: Yup, yes. Anne: So when you inform your potential clients of bookout dates, then hopefully they'll see that as an opportunity to get in touch with you before you go on vacation, right? And hire you then, and have an idea that you're going to be away from, I don't know, this date to this date, or maybe a day here, a day there, and allows them to, number one, because we're sending that email saying, hey, happy summer, just to let you know, I'm going to be booked out from this date to this date. And then it keeps us top of mind. Laya: Yes. Anne: So not only are we informing our potential clients when we might be gone, but we're also keeping ourselves top of mind with them by sending that email out and saying, by the way, I'm going to be booked out, happy summer, keep sending those auditions. I love it. So that is one thing that I will do is send out periodic emails, saying happy summer, you know, whatever, here's the newest job that I just did. And keep sending those auditions. I'll be booked out from this date to this date. Laya: Yes, it's a great way. In fact, I just did that. And as a result, just like you said, it gave my, a few of my clients the foresight and the opportunity to say, hold on, you're here until when? Anne: Yup. Laya: Let me get to two or three of these things. You think you can knock them out before? Yeah. Will you have your rig? You know, a few of my managers came back and said, wait, wait, wait. You know, when it is like a hard date out and can you still be available? Anne: Yup. Laya: So it opens up the conversation and it lets -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- your partners know what your boundaries are, but also gives them an opportunity to flex and maybe book you early or have something waiting for you when you come back, you can't beat that. Right? So the -- Anne: Right? So important to let your agents know when you are -- I cannot tell you how many times, like, my agent or I've heard of stories about agents that, you know, they have a great audition. They send to you, and you don't respond because you're on vacation. And it's one of those things that the agents, please just let me know when you're going to be away, when you're going to be back, what's your availability, because that's something they need to communicate to the client too. So you are working together as a partner with that agent. Laya: Yes. Anne: And so when you go away, they kind of need to know they need to know these things. Laya: How -- absolutely right. How far in advance do you let your partners or your agents know? Anne: As soon as I know, actually that I'm going to be gone. Laya: Really? Anne: I'll just send an email and then yeah. And then I'll also send them, you know, probably a week in advance, I will just say, hey, by the way, just wanted to remind you that I'll be out from this date to this date. Laya: Yeah, that's a good practice. Anne: And that gives them kind of a heads up. Yeah. So, because if I don't, as soon as I know, that just becomes like, oh, on my task list of to-do's, you know, is let everybody know I'm going to be out, prepare that email that I'm going to send to my potential clients that says here's my bookout dates. And then, especially to my agents, I send that right away. And then I'll remember a week before, because I always set my email too. Well, it depends. Sometimes I set my email to be on vacation. And sometimes I don't. Really depends on how I'm feeling the jobs are flowing in or not. Laya: Or what kind of vacation you're going on. Right? Anne: Yeah, exactly. If it's, you know, if it's a weekend or if it's, you know, a few days, I'm not going to do that. But if it's longer than that, I may set up my vacation email. And within that vacation email, just say for important, you know, contact me here or whatever it is. So. Laya: Yes. And I also love to put it in my signature. Anne: Yeah. Oh! Laya: So I'm like you. Anne: That's a good idea. Laya: Yeah. I don't give so such a long lead time because I feel like I might get lost in the shuffle, but about two weeks out, I'll let people know. And then I'll go in with an individual email to, you know, managers, agents -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- clients that are in the mix in the moment and say, hey, just by the way. And then about a week and a half, maybe two weeks out, I include it in my signature, an out of office or out of studio dates, just as an asterisk in the bottom of my signature. Anne: Good idea. Laya: I find that to be helpful. Anne: I like that. Laya: And then even a couple of days out, I will send an auto response to some of my -- it depends again on the type of vacation we're taking, but certainly for this upcoming one. Just keep in mind. Thank you for your email. I'll respond to you shortly. Again, just a reminder, I will be out of a studio from this date to this date. You'll -- I'll, you know, reply momentarily with this current thing before I go or something along those lines, you know? So, so you're really just kind of, another reminder. It just helps so much. I don't think anyone's going to feel like that's a nag. You're helping them to be more available and more accessible. And that's really the name of the game. Right? Anne: So I do know people that actually go on vacation, and they do not bring the rig. Laya: Yes, I am so proud of those people. I want to be one of those people. Anne: Well, I think in that, there's different reasons for that. Laya: Sure. Anne: And actually I have such respect for people that do that because they know their boundaries. Right? Laya: Same. Anne: And they're like, look, I'm on vacation. And that's that. In a lot of ways, it's like, they're confident that, you know, what, if you really want me, you'll be there when I come back. Laya: Yes, and I love that too. Anne: That's a great feeling. That's a great, confident way to manifest. Hey, that's okay. Uh, my vacation is important to me in my, and to be able to reset my creativity. I believe that that's a big thing to be, able to reset, refresh. I mean, that's why we go on vacations, right? Laya: Yeah. Anne: Have you ever gone on a vacation when you come back and you're like, oh, I need a vacation from my vacation? Laya: From the vacation, yes. I actually set those boundaries up on the weekend. I feel like I don't work. Anne: On the weekends. Laya: You know, after about 6:00 on Fridays 'til 8:00 AM on Monday, I take those breaks seriously. I almost never schedule anything work related on those weekends -- Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: -- so I can give that time to myself and my family. So I do feel like I get the recharge on a regular basis, but of course we need a nicer chunk. So I'll take one vacation a year. And even if it's just a few days where I'm fully checked out -- now I try to build those around seasonal shifts in the industry. Let's talk about that. Anne: Sure, yeah. Laya: Like the best time to vacation without your gear. Is there a time annually or seasonally? Anne: I, you know, that's a really good question because I think in all the years that I've been in this business, you think that a particular time is slow, but then for whatever reason, you'll just all of a sudden become crazy busy. So it's never been consistent for me, except between Christmas and New Year's, if I can say that, the holidays, or -- you know what I mean? The December, January months, I feel that between those two is the time where I feel most people are taking time away from their jobs. Laya: Sure. Anne: And so, but that's a short period of time. That's like a week. Do you know what I mean? Laya: Yeah, it really is. Anne: You know? Laya: It's almost like the last two weeks of December -- Anne: Yup, of the year. Laya: -- is a kind of a shutdown. On the flip side of that though, there are a lot of like fast tracking of campaigns -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- that need to get to market or Black Friday deals or last minute commercials -- Anne: The first of the year. Laya: -- especially in commercial space. Anne: Yes. Laya: And I think probably in promos too, that can be hit or miss, but I fully agree with you on that. I think it used to be where like June, when school was out -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- was kind of slow or, or around those big 4th of July weekend type of the -- Memorial Day, the Labor Day weekends. But what I noticed what happened during the pandemic was because so many of us were shut down and home -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and travel was definitely sloughed off, those holes, the slow periods -- Anne: They changed. Laya: -- they never slowed down. Anne: Yeah. Laya: Yeah. Anne: Oh my gosh. Laya: They really didn't. Anne: Absolutely. They, and I think it might've changed it from now on. I really believe that -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- we've kind of changed our lifestyle a little bit, or I don't know really quite how to term it, but I think there's a lot more online advertising than ever before. And I think that's -- Laya: Yes, it's moving so fast. Anne: Moving fast, and there's just no time for rest. Whereas before I thought there was certain times, certain seasons, but I'll tell you, lately, I don't think there is much, much time. Laya: There's no off season. Right? In voiceover, which is a blessing and a curse. Anne: Yup. Laya: And I'm with you that we need to focus and give ourselves some boundaries. I wish we could be in the four day work week. I think society as a whole has -- Anne: That would be great. Laya: -- has over busied themselves. Anne: I'm totally there. Laya: The productivity is like, it's like never enough, which is a shame, which is why I kind of put parameters around my own weekends or my business hours and things like that. That helps me get a grip. Sure, there'll be some occasions that you can't always work in that, in that way. But again, like we were saying about the four-day weekends, those seem to be pretty solid or at least more forgiving -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- among the client and the deadline demands, or even I see like Friday afternoons get real light. And most of the stuff that comes in even Friday morning -- Anne: Yes, yes. Laya: -- it's like, you can get it to me on Monday. Anne: Yup. Laya: And that seems to give a wider berth -- Anne: Agreed, agreed. Laya: -- or more of the four-day feel to your weekend. Anne: Now -- Laya: Or at least a three feels sometimes. Anne: I'll tell you what, I am, but I'm guilty. I am guilty of not having a four -- I wish I could have a four day work week. Right now, I'm a little bit on the busy side, not just for voiceover, but because I do different things, right? I -- Laya: True. Anne: -- I do this podcast. And so there are certain things that I don't necessarily have time for during the week that get pushed to the weekend. Laya: I agree with that. Anne: And so I am working right now more like six days a week, rather than, you know, I try to take my Sundays off. And so for that, you know, but I've got a plan. And so the plan in my mind is, you know, at some point I am going to retire. And so I'm working and shaping my business so that I can have a comfortable retirement. Laya: Yes. Anne: And so therefore I'm building parts of my business that I feel will be able to help me achieve that goal of not having to worry about money when I am retired. And then I can, I have like all the time in the world to travel the world and enjoy, because I'm a really great person to go on vacation and just be on vacation. I can -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- I'm all or nothing. That's kind of my personality, an all or nothing thing. So I'm either all in work, right, and then kind of like maybe a little bit dull at the playtime, although I don't like to think I'm dull, but when I, when I relax -- Laya: You're not dull. Anne: When I relax, I relax. Laya: Good. Anne: And that to me is an amazing thing. Laya: It's important. Anne: So now we both kind of admitted that we take our, we take our rigs. Laya: I take my rig, I'll admit it. I love it. I love what we do. So it's not work for me. It's like I get to do this. And I think to your point about working six days a week, you know what? But you love what you do. Anne: True. Laya: So how great is that? And it doesn't feel like work, but of course you got to give your throat or your vocal cords -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- your energy some rest too. So, okay. Let's talk about traveling, traveling with these rigs. Anne: Traveling with the rig. 416, for sure. 416, for sure. And I will say that so always, always has been and look, I tried them all. They're cute. I tried the, you know, the Apogee mic. I tried all the little, you know, cute small things. Oh, it's travel. So I want it to be travel-sized, and I could never get it to sound, right, the travel booth, maybe that, that little thing that fits over your microphone that, you know, would give you a, then we give you an acoustic kind of barrier. So it would sound good. No, that didn't work. Laya: No, no. Anne: And honestly -- Laya: Nothing's going to sound good like the 16. Anne: And my pillow fort, right? I mean the pillow fort worked well and the ironing board on top of the, you know, on top of the desk. Laya: Sure. Anne: But I will say that I fell in love with the tri-booth, and I'm going to actively endorse the tri-booth. Laya: Oh yeah? Anne: Which basically is a PVC, you know, moving blanket kind of setup rig that that actually fits in a suitcase, that is less than 50 pounds that you can check. And I love it. I got it when I was moving from one place to another, and I was renting an apartment in between, and it worked awesomely in the apartment. So for a good three months, it kept my business going. And it's wonderful. Fits in a, fits in a suitcase, it's got the rollers and everything, you can check it. And so if I go for a vacation, that's going to be a week or longer, I'm taking that thing with me. It's amazing. Doesn't mean that you can still, you know, record when the maid is in the room vacuuming or even -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- outside the door. But it really, really works amazingly well with the 416, and George Whittam creates those. It's George Whittam and Rick, Rick Wasserman. So George creates a set of stacks, a stack for you to apply, and it just makes everything just beautiful sounding, just like you were at home in your own -- Laya: Really nice. Anne: Yeah. In your own booth. So that's my plug for the tri-booth, guys. Tribooth.com. Yeah. Laya: Very cool. There was some sort of a laptop, or maybe a smaller compact version I'd seen. Always curious about them. I haven't used them myself yet, but I've certainly considered an investment in a travel booth setup that could fit in my suitcase. So I'll definitely look into George's deal because he's got, you know, his ears are finely tuned for the good stuff. But for me right now, I've been able to just work with the resources in the room, which is always a toss-up. And like I was saying to my agents earlier this week, yes, I will be available for a directed session, but you never know what screaming kid, what slamming doors -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- what cleaning service is doing in the room at any given time. And you may be off time zones, et cetera, or your own schedule. So it's very hard to plan for that, but I think the 416 gets you there, and it sounds beautiful -- Anne: Oh yeah, absolutely. Laya: -- in kind of all of those makeshift ways, you know? So I take mine with me for sure. Anne: I, you know, I am going to, I just mentioned to you, I said, tri-booth. That's how they call it, the tri-booth, but if you want more information, it's tribooth.com and I'll have that link. And the cool thing about the tri-booth, just, just a notation is that you stand up in it, and that really, it gives you the freedom to like, just perform. Whereas before, when I used to huddle myself under, you know, under the comforter, under the -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- the ironing board and, you know, the pillow fort, sometimes it got really uncomfortable, you know? Laya: Sure. You contort yourself in these ways. Anne: At some point I was on my stomach, right? And I'm trying to like, you know, execute breathing when it's just not natural necessarily coming from that position. So the cool thing is that you can stand up, but it is something like if I were just going away for a weekend, like, and you didn't want to check any luggage that maybe not be your, I'll go back to that pillow fort slash ironing board, but any vacation, yeah -- Laya: Sure, traveling lightly. Anne: -- that I'm going for more than a few days, I'm bringing it because it's pretty amazing. So that's now my travel rig -- Laya: I love that. Anne: -- and trust me, I've tried it all. And I think any of you that want to consider travel rigs, or you're new to the industry, just do a Google search for travel VO booth, or travel rig voiceover, and you'll get all sorts of really fun ideas -- Laya: Very cool. Anne: -- that people use. Laya: What do you use -- I got to ask, what do you use to mount your 416 or your boom arm or your, uh, your tripod? I found a really cool hand -- it's almost, fits in the palm of your hand. It's a little tripod mic stand that fits the 416 mount perfectly. And it is tiny. It was $10 on Amazon. I can't believe -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- that I'm putting a 416 on a $10 stand, but for travel, it's been working for me. I might have to send you a link. Anne: You know what, BOSSes, we'll put the link in our notes on the webpage -- Laya: Oh, cool. Anne: -- because I also have something from Amazon that I have. It's like a fully contained, like, stand that you can put your phone on. You can flip your phone on -- Laya: Very cool. Anne: -- so you can read your, your scripts as well as the, put the 416 in. With the tri-booth, they actually have an arm that you can mount your 416 on. So it's built in there, comes with -- Laya: Very cool. Anne: -- yeah, it comes with it. So it's really cool. So we'll put all those links at the end on our page. So very cool. Laya: Now, Anne, I have another question for you when it comes to travel, if you are traveling and working, is it now a work trip? Is it a tax write-off? Is there anything we can do to massage that because you are working? You're doing some of that business negotiation and maybe meeting with clients? Anne: Absolutely. Laya: How does that work for you? Anne: Absolutely. It is. I mean, anything that I might have to purchase, you know, travel-wise equipment wise for working while I'm on the road, absolutely is a write-off. And any time that I might spend, if I'm happen to be in a specific area where I have to, I don't know, maybe I have to go into a studio, I've actually done that as well. Laya: Yeah. Anne: Sometimes I've gone to Vegas and chosen to go to some lovely studios there in Vegas that we all know and love, and that has been a write-off as well. So I believe whatever you can write off while you're working on vacation, absolutely do. Laya: Well, you made a great point there about booking studio time in the city that you're going. What a, win-win. Not only are you getting to experience a new studio, but you're giving that studio business -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- thus making the relationship between you as talent and showing them your level of professionalism or your performance, or what have you -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- deepening a personal one-on-one relationship with that studio, that engineer, whoever it is on the other side, and creating a bond or making a new connection. Anne: Yeah. Laya: So you're winning with the client, with your project, with yourself, with your time, with your back crammed into a little hole. Anne: And you know, yeah. Laya: And you've got that awesome opportunity to, uh, yeah. Anne: You don't have to worry at that point about what your environment's going to be like. Is your audio going to be good? Is it, you know, you're gonna have to worry about the maid that's vacuuming -- Laya: Exactly. Anne: -- outside the door or -- Laya: No stress -- Anne: -- the air conditioning system that you have no control over that, you know, kicks on in the middle of it all. So yeah, there is always that. I think before you go on a trip, it's always a good idea to research area studios -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- and, you know, check them out to see what their availability and their services are, because maybe you'll need to SourceConnect or ipDTL to a studio while you're there. And, uh, you know, just kind of confirm all of those capabilities, introduce yourself. And it's always good, like you said, to, you know, make those connections. Laya: Yeah. You never know what those will turn into. So, uh, I have yet to find one where I'm going on my next destination, off to Maui next week. So I'll be off with my rig. Anne: I'm jealous. Laya: Before I go, I'm going to look into those, uh, those travel setups, because I think that would make life a lot easier. Anne: For sure. For sure. Wow. Good conversation, VO on the road. Two of us admitting that yeah, we take our rigs on the road all the time. Laya: I take it, I take it. Anne: And I aspire to go on that vacation where I say, no, I'm sorry, I'm on vacation, so you'll wait for me for when I come back. But that's cool. It's all good. As you mentioned, I mean, we love what we do. So I mean -- Laya: Exactly. Anne: -- if it's not going to take away every single moment of my vacation, I'm more than happy to bring it along and, you know, help fund fun things that we might do on vacation. Laya: Exactly. It helps pay for the vacation. If you think of it that way, that's the modern mindset approach. If you're flipping the script on that. Anne: And a write-off. Laya: Exactly. And how to apply it financially. Anne: There you go. Laya: So no matter how you VO on the road, think about these opportunities. I think, uh, you never know how it could play out in the best way for your business. Right? Anne: Absolutely. VO on the road. All right, Laya, another excellent conversation. Laya: Thanks, Anne. You too. Good one. Anne: You guys, if you are going on vacation, enjoy that vacation. If you've got a travel rig, take it. Don't use it too much. Make sure you're, you're going there and refreshing your creativity, but hey, don't miss up on those opportunities. And BOSSes, a big shout-out to our sponsor ipDTL that does allow us to connect even on vacation -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week. Have an amazing vacation, Laya, I'm jealous. Laya: Thank you, yes. Anne: Yeah. And we'll see you when you get back. Laya: All right. Anne: Bye-Bye. Laya: Bye-Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

What if you could perform beyond the limitations of your own voice? Anne is joined by special guest Alex Serdiuk for a bonus Voice and Ai episode. They discuss Respeecher's speech-to-speech technology, the limitations of your natural voice, and how a synthesized voice is similar to a printing press. The future isn't just on its way - the future is here - and creative possibilities are endless when human voices and technology work together...

Do you have the courage to invest in yourself? In this episode, Anne and Laya share how they built their dream booths and how you can too! From soundproofing to equipment, they cover picking the right recording space, investing in quality materials & technology, and taking that financial leap of faith to up your bookability + professionalism like a #VOBOSS! Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today, and for the last few sessions, I have been so happy to be co-hosting with special guest Laya Hoffman. Laya! How are you? Laya: Hi. I'm so good, Anne. Loving this, and we've got more cool stuff to talk about. I feel like I could talk to you for hours and hours. Anne: I know. Right? Well, speaking of which, you know, I met you, Laya, when I first met you, I actually didn't meet you. I saw an amazing booth tour of your new booth. Laya: Oh yeah. Anne: Now I think you had just moved, and you built a booth -- is it downstairs? Laya: Yes, I would -- I would like to say it's an entire studio, if I may, because -- Anne: Yes, you built an entire studio. Yes, you did. Laya: It was a dream come true. Let me tell you, and it's because I came out of a booth, but we can go even further back then. Anne: I was so impressed. Laya: Thank you. Anne: I was so impressed with your booth tour that I thought, oh my gosh, that is like the coolest video booth tour I've ever seen. Laya: Thank you. Anne: And I absolutely loved your space. And you were sharing that space also with your daughter doing your podcast. And I just, I reached out to you, and that's basically how we met. And I'm so glad that we did, because now here we are doing a podcast series, so I'm absolutely loving it. And I thought let's talk about our booths because we've had some really wonderful experiences in building our booths. And I'll tell you what, my booth experiences, they've just been an evolution of my business, and coming from, you know, being in the closet -- and there's nothing wrong with recording in your closet. It's all about, you know, the sound that you're getting, but I'll tell you what, there's something to be said for graduating to a booth that's kind of like a custom beautiful place that you can sit -- Laya: It's a big girl booth. Anne: Yeah, a big girl booth, I love it -- when you can sit and just do what you love. And I just absolutely love my new booth. Let's talk about our booths 'cause we're booth babes. Let's do it. Laya: Booth babes. I love it. Yes. The modern mindset is to create space that you feel good in. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And so to be, whether it is your closet or your you've created a new studio, or you've got a custom booth or a Whisper Room or any one of those things, a Studio Bricks, there's so many beautiful options out there. No matter what space you're working in, I think it's important to just feel good in this space. So like you said. Anne: Agreed. Laya: You know, no matter where you are in the stage of your career or your journey, as long as you feel good there, and there's something that connects you to your surroundings and your atmosphere, that's when you're going to feel your best and to deliver your best. Exactly. Anne: And you know what's so interesting is I've been through a few booths. I don't mean that to like, oh, I got one booth after the next, after the next, but one of my first actual booth-booths instead of being in my closet was built by my dad. And there's something to be said -- Laya: That's awesome. Anne: -- about being in a space that you feel good about. My dad built me that booth out of love. Laya: Yes! Anne: I mean, my dad has always supported me, never once asked me a question about what I was doing. He didn't necessarily understand voiceover, but when I said, Dad, I need to build a booth. That gives me some good sound. And so my dad was like, okay, let's do it. And my dad bought me this booth. And every time I stepped in that booth, and I'm going to get a little bit like probably teary because I just felt his love every single time. Laya: Yes. Anne: And I, I used that for years. Laya: That's so beautiful. Anne: I used that booth for years and every time I stepped in there, I felt my dad's love and confidence in me and just his support. And it was a wonderful, wonderful thing. And I'll tell you about -- Laya: What a beautiful experience for you. Anne: Yeah. And with my new booth, I also made sure because now he's older, I also made sure that he was involved in the booth, and he was here for the building of this booth too, which I'm so, so proud of. Laya: I bet he took great pride in that, you know, so doing something with his hands that he could create to give his daughter this gift is so beautiful, Anne. Good for you. What a nice story. Anne: It is, it is awesome. Laya: I have a different story, but -- Anne: That's what -- let's hear it. Let's hear it. I'm ready. Laya: We moved into a new house a few years ago, and we're in the northwest suburbs here of Atlanta. And, uh, the basement was unfinished. So, you know, when basements are unfinished and weird, there's like cement, dusty floors and two by fours and insulation that's just like rotting off the walls? Yeah. It's just full of probably terrible pollutants. Well, that was my first booth. Um, we call it Skid Row studios. I used a bunch of mattresses. Anne: I love it. Oh my gosh, you had mattresses. I love it. Laya: It was a mattress factory booth. It was disgusting. I'm not proud of the mites and the weirdness that I was probably consuming in that box. But you know, that just goes to show you work with what you got, you know, and if you really love this work, and you can get through that, you can carry on through and have a pretty solid career, I'm pretty sure. If that didn't break me, that mattress factory Skid Row studio. Anne: Skid Row studio. Laya: It really was. That was my first studio. And then after that, I invested in a custom booth, and I won't even give the brand because unfortunately this situation was a super negative one for me, and the booth arrived on a pallet. You know, you can imagine how excited you are. You invested -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- this giant chunk of change in your business. It was like my last dollar, but I knew that the space was not secure -- Anne: Yeah, sure. Laya: -- and it wasn't healthy to be in that space for me. And my daughter was working with me at the time. So, you know, she's six years old. I didn't want to breathing her all of that and making the experience less than enjoyable. So I invested, and this thing came on a pallet as they do broken into a million pieces. Anne: Oh man. Laya: And so it was really, I can't even tell you how my heart sunk into my stomach. Anne: Yeah, I bet. Laya: Like, was this a bad decision for my business? I mean, we, uh, gosh, it really almost broke me, but it was that learning experience of building it back together, dealing with the manufacturer, who's not kind, and it was really unfortunate to make me realize, like, I do really want this, and I'm going to work towards creating space one day that I can achieve that feels good. Anne: Oh yeah, and that you are deserving of. Laya: And is every bit the essence. Anne: Right? You absolutely -- that was my big thing is when I built the studio, what well, both studios, it was, it was a space that I was deserving of, you know, and a space that I needed, and I needed to be able to feel good to perform well. And that was a huge part. Laya: And making the investment sometimes, while it seems like a bit of a gut punch, especially if you don't have it, it all goes back to the mindset of building your voiceover business, right? Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: You have to invest and you have to spend the money to make the money. Anne: True. Laya: And in a way that was my brick and mortar investment, right? Which, I didn't have a storefront and didn't have to create a shop, buy a bunch of merchandise. My business was that space. And so making that investment, while I just knew it would pay off eventually, but it had to feel right around me to get there. Anne: Oh yes. Laya: And that gave me the confidence to continue on. And now here we are, we're in a custom-made studio, and I couldn't be more proud of this space. So, and feel, feel, I couldn't feel more amazing in here too. Anne: Oh yeah, yeah. Laya: So yeah, let's get into that. Anne: Well, so I'll tell you about, I'll go back to my first built booth. I mean, because I, you know, I, myself was in -- I was in a closet, and it was a, it was a closet that was like a storage closet. And what I didn't realize, I thought, well, everybody, you know, everybody starts in their closet. It wasn't a clothes closet. Right? So there were a lot of hard surfaces. And in my early years, I don't know anything about sound or, you know, creating a good space for, for my recording. And so, no matter what I did, had carpet in there, I tried to hang blankets, no matter what I did, it sounded horrible. And so ultimately that was when I talked to my dad and I said, Dad, I need a space. And he built it. And it just was wonderful. And I will, I'm going to give a big plug for George Whittam, who was an amazing help, who helped us really kick that up another notch and make it sound amazing. And that was just, it was a homemade booth. You know, we went and got lumber and drywall, and at the time we had installation. We didn't use Rockwool, but George was able to help us really add panels that had Rockwool in it and make things sound really amazing and also give me a set of filters, you know, that always helps. Laya: Presets, yeah. Anne: I always recommend presets, get those stacks to, to really just make that sound amazing. And it was a wonderful thing. I've got it all documented. I'll put links, you know, on our page so you guys can see it links with the materials we used. But this past couple of years, when I moved, I had an extra office space, and I too had almost come to the decision where I was going to order a pre-built booth. And it was going to be very expensive. It was going to take a long time to get to me. And I, you know, was kind of going back and forth between, should I get this pre-built booth because I want to make sure my house is, you know, resale, I'm already thinking resale, even though I haven't moved into it yet, but I'm thinking -- Laya: Yeah, you have to think about that, for sure. Anne: -- I don't want to build a booth in my house because it might affect resale value. So I'm thinking pre-built booth. And then by the time -- Laya: And you can take it with you, right, if you, if you were to move. You could break it down, you know, and that's great, great theory. Anne: But I was floored, I was floored by the expense -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- of the booths. Laya: Yes. Anne: And then I thought, gosh, I'm going to have to hire somebody to install it for me. And then, and then I came to find out that yet you needed to add stuff on the inside of the booth. And I'm like -- for voiceover, then there was a whole other thing where, oh, okay. So then I've got to treat it. And I think that's the case with a lot of prebuilt booths where people don't always realize that you, sometimes you do have to add to the inside of that booth -- Laya: Oh yes, oh yes. Anne: -- to make it an acoustic space that is, you know, worthy. And then I ended up just looking around thinking, what else can I do? Because this just seems, there's no guaranteed date as to when it's going to get there. And I need to be able to continue my work. You know, in the meantime, I'm in an apartment or a rental, you know, until my house, my house was being built, until it was ready. And I thought, I just, there's no way to guarantee the delivery on a certain day without having to wait a whole long time. And I said, let's look into a custom built booth. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And I contacted a good friend of mine. And I think someone that you also know, and -- Laya: Drumroll, please. Anne: -- everybody loves, Mr. Tim Tippets, who -- Laya: Tim Tippets. Anne: -- was just an amazing, amazing instrument in creating the space that I have now. And I absolutely love it. From start to finish, he helped me design it. He actually came here and literally he left the day or the day before lockdown in California. Laya: I remember that. I remember watching that unfold on social media -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and thought, I mean, he's my audio angel also. Anne: Isn't he, right? Laya: I have a heart for, for Tim. Anne: Yep. Laya: And the fact that he kind of brought us together. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. Laya: I watched that whole build go down. You guys did an amazing job -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- of tracking it in real time. Anne: Yup. Laya: And just how many hands were involved in the process -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and the complexity of building a studio into the walls, into the fabric of your home. It really takes it to a different level. And there are so many nuances, right? Anne: Well, yeah, absolutely. Laya: So it was fascinating to see your process. I loved it. Anne: And you know, what's really cool is that it's not really built into the room. It's actually a booth within the room. Laya: Okay, cool. Anne: So it just looks like it's a part of the room, which is really a really cool thing. So if I ever moved from here, all I've got to do is take down a couple of the walls, and I've not really destroyed. I mean, the walls that he's put up around this booth. Laya: Oh, that's so cool. I didn't realize that. Anne: So, yeah, so I haven't destroyed, yeah, I haven't destroyed any of the original construction, which is -- Laya: Very cool. Anne: -- really cool. And you, again, I've got an extensive blog on that creation and how wonderful it was. We -- it did take at least three to five people on a day-to-day basis, and it is perfectly custom built, and it actually ended up being more efficient cost-wise than a prebuilt. Believe it or not. Laya: It's kind of -- no, I believe it. I believe it wholeheartedly in fact. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: I had a similar experience with mine, so it's nice to hear that you felt the same way too, because I think the misconception can be, if you build a studio space in your home or a booth within a room situation like you did, oh, it's gotta be totally crazy expensive. Or you get all these crazy quotes from contractors -- Anne: Exactly. Laya: -- who might be considering what it takes to build a theater room, which is acoustically very different -- Anne: Oh yeah, absolutely. Laya: -- than a voiceover specific room. Anne: And I'm not saying that in all instances, is it going to be cheaper than this or -- that really depends on what booths you're looking at, but I will say -- Laya: Know what you're using, yeah. Anne: -- completely customized to me. Laya: Yeah. Anne: I don't think I could have gotten a pre-built booth that was custom the way this is. Like, literally they measured like how tall I was to where to mount the monitor, the height of the desk, where to put the electrical, understanding where I'm putting lighting, just amazing. I have two mics in here and the third mic outside of the booth, just connecting everything. There's no way I could have gotten something equivalent with a prebuilt situation. Laya: Yeah, yeah. Anne: And for that, I am eternally grateful, and I just, I come in this booth and I love it. I love it. And my father, he's so funny because my father, it -- this actually has -- it's double-walled, right? Green-glued, Rockwool everywhere and Rockwool panels. Laya: Same, same. Anne: And it's got two doors. So not just one. I'm all proud of the fact that I have two doors to get into this booth. And my father, love him, love him, love him. He was like, okay, it's -- their actual, you know, like doors that you would use -- Laya: Solid core doors, solid core. Anne: -- like solid core doors. And they have a lock on them. And my father's like, no, you will take that lock out because we don't want Anne to ever, you know, possibly lock herself in, or, you know, God forbid, somebody, you know what I mean? God forbid somebody breaks in the house in -- Laya: Yeah, you gotta think about the safetiness. Sure. Anne: Oh, he's all about my safety. And he was just adamant. So we -- Laya: I love your dad. Anne: I know! We had to remove the locks. Laya: Never met him, I love him. Anne: So there's no way I can lock myself in the booth. And I have had that issue. I've read other people who've had the issue where they've locked them -- what if something happened? I mean, God forbid, I, you know, faint in the booth, and you know, nobody can get to me because it's locked. So, you know, my dad was stickler for that. And really it was lovely having him here the whole time with the crew and overseeing things. It was really lovely. Laya: Awesome. Anne: And I just, I cannot say enough wonderful things about Tim and Tim's crew who helped me to build this amazing, completely custom booth. So. Laya: Well, I had a similar experience, but very different, and of course a different outcome, but I have the same sentiment. I walk into this space every day, and I get to share it with my daughter -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- which is also a gift. And it just pulls out this most creative, amazing feeling of love and excitement and pride for the work that we do and how far we've come doing this work. And yes, it was an investment and yes, I had that booth, but the booth always, because of how the situation was handled, always had this air of negativity -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- a bit of regret and resentment. And I could feel that energetically. And so I knew that when we remodeled our, when we finished our basement rather, that we had always planned to create space where I could work. And while I also thought about resell value and things like that, the way we built it will be ideal for the next person to create their studio or their office or their gym in, um, that kind of keeps the sound contained. As you know, there's so much work from home now. Anne: Yeah. Laya: This will create the perfect space for someone else to create their office in, in the future. But we have no plans to do that for a long time. But we worked with our general contractor who initially, like I said, had the thought that, oh, you just build it like a movie theater. You know, we'll throw up some, uh, audio seal sound barrier on the wall -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and then we'll, you know, play over it. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Anne: And they always want that, that soundproof drywall, which is not what you want actually. Laya: Right, not what you want. Anne: There's that -- the stuff they sell at Lowe's. And I think they call it soundproof or I forget what kind of drywall they call it, but it's very heavy -- Laya: Yup. Anne: -- and it's not what you need for a booth. Laya: And so of course, I got my audio angel involved in -- Anne: Yes, Tim. Laya: -- again, this is in the height of the pandemic. And so Tim Tippets, we consulted virtually. We did an initial run through, and this was new for him. Of course he wanted to be hands on like he was for yours. Anne: Oh, he's so passionate. Laya: And you got to love that. Anne: Gosh. Laya: This was on the heels of your booth. We think we built in November. And so we were doing some consults, and I would show him the schematics. And luckily I was working with a designer on the entire basement space. So this was just a portion of it, which, and it was twofold positive because I got to write off a portion of our construction bill -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and supplies on the studio and roll that into the cost of, of the overall build and renovation. So that was a plus, but Tim really worked with us to make sure my contractor knew -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- firsthand what the right supplies were, you know, using Rockwool -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- using Green Glue -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- making sure to create that space in between the dry wall -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- double layered walls, et cetera. The ceiling is even double layered. We were very clear about, I even have a solid core wood door, just one, but it's doing the trick, and a triple-paned glass window. Anne: Oh yes, nice. Laya: So I don't feel claustrophobic in here. I can see from a safety perspective, et cetera. And so that's been a blessing, but then we took it a bunch of steps further just because I had supplies, and we were creating the space for a multitude of reasons. We were of course doing voiceover work. So there's a specific corner in the room that has our yellow tack mic and boom arms. And I can sit at the desk and have this dead dead sound in the corner. And then the other side, which is the podcasting based, more of a lounge, it's able to be both acoustically and aesthetically sound so that I can film the show on camera. Anne: Yup, yup. Laya: And it's a beautiful lounge. Anne: Beautiful. Laya: Thank you so much and colorful -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- so it invokes creativity and sparks joy. And, uh, my daughter feels like this is just as much her space. In fact, she had a hand in picking everything from the colors of the acoustic panels to the couch and the Dalmatian print floor. Anne: So let's -- let's talk a bit about the famous acoustic panels that are Tim Tippets'. Laya: Yes! Anne: He's got that amazing DYI, YouTube videos -- Laya: He does. Anne: -- and I'll tell you what, and I've purchased acoustic panels before, and they're expensive. Laya: They are. Anne: And the way that Tim makes these panels, it's amazing, number one. I have throughout my booth and my room, I have 27 of Tim's custom panels. Laya: Yup. Anne: 27. Which is -- Laya: That is an obscene amount. Anne: It's obscene. Laya: But I feel like I have a lot as well. Anne: But I have a big room too. Laya: I love them. Yeah. Well pad -- padded rooms, you know, I feel safe in here. It's kind of nice. And I love his build. I, before I knew about Tim's build, I had -- and in here in our backyard in Atlanta, GIK Acoustics is in our neck of the woods, and I had purchased six panels for my four by six standalone booth. Because as you mentioned earlier, it's not good enough to have this double wall expensive custom booth. You also got to get the panels in there -- Anne: Yup, yup. Laya: -- and the foam, if you like. Anne: Exactly. Laya: I mean, whatever. So we put all that back in the room, and then I was also got really lucky. Otherwise I too would have built Tim's panels, but a good friend of mine that owns a nearby studio here was offloading some Wenger acoustic panels. They're huge. I mean, I think I have a two on the ceiling, two cloud floats. They're six foot by three foot, to give you some idea. Anne: Wow, that's great. Laya: And they are huge. Um, we recovered them, made them our own, and popped them up on the wall for fairly inexpensive because -- Anne: Excellent. Laya: -- I bought them used, you know, so you gotta do what you can do, but I love those resources Tim's made available. Anne: We, we were like a panel making shop out in the garage. Laya: Yes. Oh yeah. Anne: And you know, one thing that I'll -- I'll mention that I did not realize is that Tim is such a stickler for detail. I mean, every single part, like you could just see him on a day-to-day basis. Like just everything going on in his head, like calculating the most perfect sound to come out of -- Laya: The guy's a machine. Totally. Anne: He is -- he -- now, and I never realized this, but I have four inch thick panels. Laya: Yeah, same here. Anne: Now when I purchased my panels, yeah, when I purchased my panels before I had just purchased two inches, not thinking anything of it, like, do I need thicker? But he explained so very nicely to me why the four inches and plus he, he puts them -- Laya: Right, the air flow in the back. Right? You gotta have that. Anne: Exactly. He's got air flow in the back, which I never realized. And all of these little tiny details, which really make a huge, huge difference when you're in my booth. Laya: And it defines the sound, right? And so when we all -- we like to talk about having broadcast quality sound. Sure, sure. Here. Who knows what the barometer for that really is when it comes to home studios or your noise floor, but he was able to, and again, he wasn't onsite, but because of the way I was able to generate the 3d cads -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- we actually had the design team take the size specs of my acoustic panels. I was very concerned about it because I was like, these things are huge. Anne: Yeah. Laya: If we put them in the walls and mount them up or I get the placement wrong -- Anne: You've lost all this space. Laya: Oh my gosh. Right. And then how do you configure furniture? I must have racked my brain about that for forever. But Tim explained it in very simple terms as he does -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- um, for the acoustically challenged and, um, help you really maximize the space. And it sounds pristine because of it. And so I'm so grateful for that knowledge -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and his support. Yeah. Anne: And I will say again, this podcast is been renamed to the Tim Tippets love fest. Laya: So he does not need to be -- how does he go anywhere? Anne: Honestly, he is probably one of the best teachers, right? Not only is he amazing at creating an acoustic space, but he also can teach you, like you said, he explains it to you in layman's terms -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- so that it makes it easy to understand. And I really had such an education watching this booth go up with Tim and just understanding. And so I just, again, you know, kudos and, and just so grateful for Tim and his help for this booth. And I don't ever need another booth. I mean, unless of course I'm going to move again. Laya: I'm not going anywhere. Anne: But I am so happy. I am so happy in this space. And there's so much to be said for being happy in this space. You know, my father had a hand in it and Tim was just wonderful. And that just makes a huge difference because we spend a lot of time here. So you, you know, one of the modern mindset is that you, as a talent, as a creative, as an artist, you deserve a space in which you feel amazing in. Laya: Yeah, so you can give the best possible performance. Anne: Make that investment, you know, and it's, and it may be hard. I understand. There's so many people that get into this industry and they're like, yeah, but this is so expensive. Or this, that is so expensive. I think, you know, BOSSes, we need to keep in mind that this is a business, there are investments to be made. And they're not necessarily like while you can get away with a pillow fort and an ironing board and a, and a comforter, you know, ultimately in the long run you make a good investment. Had I realized, you know, so many years ago when we were talking about our VO-to-go travel rigs, that I should have just gotten a 416. I spent so much money on all those cute little other mics that I couldn't make sound good. Same thing. I think I graduated into this custom built booth, but I absolutely, it was the right time for me. And I had come to a point in my business where I said, you know what? I deserve. I deserve a -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- an amazing booth. I deserve that. And why have I not thought about that before? I don't need to cram myself into a little space -- Laya: No. Anne: -- or, you know, into a closet if I can reinvest that money. And I think it takes courage to invest a significant amount of money into your studio. And -- Laya: It does. Anne: You know? And this pandemic of course has heightened, right, the fact that we need good spaces. Laya: Yeah. And your audio imprint is again, your brand. It is everything. So why not make it sound the best? Anne: Yeah. Laya: I've said before in a previous podcast, but my modern mindset always goes back to the fact that I'm not trying to break the bank. I'm very frugal and very aware of the spending in the investments that I'm making. For sure. However, I don't want to spend twice. And it's -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- if I get it right the first time, then that sets me up for success as far as my brand, my accountability, my audio imprint. Because if you send out crap audio in this day and age, you won't get a second listen, and you can tell the difference. And so what I do, even with the studio, even having the presets dialed in, having worked with Tim often, I will often check back in with producers that I'm close with -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and people I've worked for before and say, hey, give me an audio check real quick. I'm always tweaking. Anne: Great idea. Laya: I'm always making sure, like I am audibly standing up to the competition. And nine times out of ten, I hear your audio stands up better than most, for sure. And definitely is a clear definitive -- you can hear it. You can hear the difference. You can hear that you're a pro by the audio you deliver. And so if that is your first impression, and that's all you got, I mean, your performance could be amazing. But if the acoustics and the sound don't have the utmost clarity, then your professionalism just kind of got knocked down a notch unfortunately. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: So it is something to consider when approaching where your next steps are going -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- in your business or where you are today. Anne: It is a package. And I, and I think, yeah, I like to bring in the modern mindset philosophy here is that, you know, you are a package of your audio, your sound, the way you present yourself online, the whole thing is a package. And the whole thing makes a difference. If you are set with putting forth your brand in a very professional way. So. Laya: Yeah, it definitely affects your bookability for sure. And one of the reasons, just going back to your how we met, the reason I created -- I hired a film company that normally does tours for homes as they go to market -- Anne: Yup. Laya: You know, if you can, you can hire somebody like that. And that's exactly what I did because I knew the cost would be more effective that way. Anne: Oh my gosh. The marketing was amazing. Laya: Yeah, thank you. And then that using that video on my website, on YouTube as part of my signature -- Anne: Part of your market. Yeah. Laya: It's the audio nerds that love that stuff. It's the engineers who book you, the creatives, that book you that see that. And they're like, oh my God, this chick knows what's up. Anne: Yeah. Laya: How cool is that? Anne: Yes! Laya: And I got a lot of work just from that video. Anne: Just from that video. And the cool thing is, is that you're not necessarily like saying, hire me, hire me, voiceover. You're not doing like, hey, this is Laya. You know, this is my voice. You're actually showcasing your, your studio, and you're passionate about it and your personality. So it becomes like, you know, we talk about our podcast, right? It's like a side benefit. People get to know you through your podcast. People get to know you through your studio tour, and they get to see that personality. And they say, you know what? I want to work with her. Laya: Yeah. Anne: She knows what's going on. Laya: And your level of commitment. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Laya: Yeah, right? Anne: And so it really becomes, it becomes that whole modern mindset. The package, here I am, the deal. I'm the real deal here. So. Laya: I'm the pro with a modern minded BOSS. Right Anne? Anne: Absolutely. Laya: I love it. Thank you. Good talk. Anne: Well, this has been so much fun talking about our booths, 'cause we love them. Laya: I hope to come to your booth one day -- Anne: That's right. Laya: and I hope you can come to mine. Anne: Me too. Laya: You know, one day we'll BOSS up that way -- Anne: Me too. Laya: -- when the world opens. Anne: So BOSSes, remember you deserve, you deserve a good space. You deserve a good space. You deserve to feel -- Laya: Feel good in it. Anne: Yeah. You deserve to feel amazing in this space where you are creating and performing and being the artist that you are. So big shout-out to ipDTL who is in the booth today. You can find out more at ipdtl.com, and you guys, have an amazing week. Laya, it's been amazing as always. Thank you. Laya: Thank you for having me, Anne. Thanks, BOSSes, for listening. It was good to be back. Anne: All right, guys. See you next week. Bye-bye. Laya: See you. Bye-Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Whether you're working a zero-inbox system or have thousands of unread emails, we're going to teach you how to manage your email marketing like a #VOBOSS. In this episode, Anne and Laya discuss strategies for running successful email campaigns and teach you how to manage your mass communications like a total pro. From concise content creation to developing better reading and writing skills, it's all about strengthening your marketing muscle! >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, along with my amazing special guest co-host Laya Hoffman. Laya: Hey Anne, hey BOSSes. It's great to be back. I've enjoyed our conversations, this entire sequence of modern mindset. I really appreciate being here and all you shared with me. So thanks for having me back. Anne: Yeah, so let's continue, shall we, on our modern mindset? Because our last few episodes we've talked about marketing, social media, and I think an important one to cover as well, in order to evolve, our businesses is email marketing. Laya: Yes. Anne: Like, do you do email marketing? How do you do email marketing well, in a modern way? How do you not become a spam annoying -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- person out there? So, yeah, it's very, again, with all the chaos that is out there today, everything digital flying at us, it's hard to know sometimes. Laya: It's a lot of noise. Yeah. Anne: Yeah. How do you cut through the noise? Laya: Exactly. And stay relevant, stay top of mind with your clients without kind of brow beating and being a bit of a nag and being the thing that clogs up their inbox. Because the last thing you want is them to roll their eyes when they see, you know, oh gosh, another Monday morning email from Laya Hoffman that's about her, and not anything I need. You know? I mean, that's where I'm very cognizant of. I think there was a big push maybe a couple of years ago when email marketing was at its height. And it seemed like there's still a lot of talent that subscribe to that train of thought that is like, oh, I must get content out. I must get a direct email to my list. Anne: A newsletter. Laya: I need to cultivate my newsletter. Anne: It was a thing, a newsletter to the list. Laya: And maybe it's still a thing, if you really have important quality content and information to share, that's rich for your client or your audience, like a podcast or a new episode. And you've got buy-in from the people that, that are really connected to that. Anne: Backing up. Buy-in. Laya: Okay. Buy-In. How do you even know? Anne: Let's start there. 'Cause I think, right, before we send email, we have to have a list. And before we have a list, we really honestly should get permission -- Laya: You should. Anne: -- for people to be on that. Laya: It's the law. Anne: It is the law. Laya: That's the thing. Anne: It is to be spam compliant. And I want this to be so important. If you guys get anything out of this episode, let it be that if you have permission for your clients to be on your list, that is really the optimum way of being able to communicate with your clients and your potential clients. And there's so many people out there with cold emails, and it's a lot of discussions going on in the groups and everything. And cold emailing is certainly way. However, I'm going to tell you, how do you feel -- first of all, actually, I won't tell you, I'll ask you. How do you feel when you get an uninvited email from somebody -- Laya: Gross, icky. Anne: -- that's trying to sell SEO or trying to sell, uh, you know, we can develop your web page. I get it. And I look at it and I go, hmm, I didn't ask for that. Laya: You automatically -- yeah. You automatically have a bad taste in your mouth, right? Anne: Yeah, I don't like it. Laya: That's the last thing you want from your clients, for sure. Anne: So cold emailing anything, it's just, it's a tricky, tricky business. So I want to warn people to please just be very, very cognizant of what it is that you're writing in those emails and how you're sending those emails. I tend to get people's permission before I email to them. And there's lots of different ways to do it. It's a little bit more, I would say than an advanced kind of a method to do that instead of just mining Google for production companies or owners of companies. I think that with a little bit of work and a little bit of innovative marketing of yourself, you can get people on your mailing list, and then they're not going to be angry when you email them. Laya: I tell you what I did when I first started my email list. And I dunno, there's a couple of hundred emails on there, and sure, I'm able to get that. You can sign up on my email list on my website, 'cause there's a capture there. Or if you've ever sent me a message on my website -- Anne: But that's a good thing. Right? Laya: -- on my website -- Anne: That's a good thing. Laya: Sure. You know, there's not a lot of people that are signing up on my website because I don't really have a newsletter. It's more of an inquiry -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- taken there. But what I did, I think as I started to cultivate my list of clients, I would send -- and I only send maybe an email once a quarter as mostly about bookout dates or anything, really new and relevant that may be worth sharing and provide value to them. Like, you know, the kickoff of our podcast or this podcast right here. Hey, check this out. You might find value in this. I say at the top of the message always why and how I've secured their email. You know, thank you for being a great client of mine. I've enjoyed working with you in the past. I would like to include you in this message. However, if this doesn't resonate with you, and you'd like me to remove your name in the future, please click here. That's almost like the first thing that I have communicated. And I feel like that may cross the line a little bit, but it's still asking for permission right from the jump. What do you say? Anne: Oh no, I think that's excellent. I think if you did not actually get their permission by, you know, they clicked on that -- because I actually have pop-up windows on all of my websites that say, do you want to be involved or do you want to get on my mailing list? And so there's the terms and policy that is there as well, saying that -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- by clicking this box, you agree to allow marketing, blah, blah, blah, blah. I can't remember the exact verbiage, but it's there. So if they decide to be on my mailing list, they agree that I will be able to market to them, and they will have the option to get off of that mailing list. So that's number one for me. And so for me, because I have three different brands that do three different functions, that helps me to get a lot of people on my list. If you're just doing voice talent, you're right. People are probably not running to your website and clicking, oh, sign me up. Laya: Sure. Anne: But even so the ones that do, which I think are great, anybody that might want to inquire how much it might cost you to do a particular job, and maybe they'll sign up for email. That's great. You've got their permission. And then also if you're going to do that cold email, I love the fact that in the very beginning of you say, hey, you've been a client of mine. If not, you know, if you would like to be taken off this email list, click here or simply reply, remove to this email. And I've seen that on like a, a regular text email. You know, for me, I send out all emails that are HTML enabled and have graphics and that sort of thing. But if you're just writing through Gmail or Apple mail or however, you're communicating with these people, a simple text message that says, this is how I got your email. Please reply remove if you'd like to be removed from this list. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And I think that is the most gracious way to do a cold email. Laya: Exactly. That gives grace and says like, asking permission right off the jump and letting them know how you secured their information because privacy is a big thing. Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: You got to respect that in every aspect we can. And that kind of takes that -- Anne: It's the law. Laya: -- gross feeling off. For sure. It's the law. Anne: It's the law. Laya: Stick to the regulations and follow the rules, people. Anne: It's funny how many people don't -- like you think just sending an email to somebody unsolicited, you know what I mean? It is the law. Laya: Yeah. Anne: I mean, it, I mean, people may not take action, but it is the law. Laya: Well, in the states -- Anne: Exactly. Laya: -- it's less, I think, regulated as bad here, but like, you know, in the European Union -- Anne: Oh my God. Laya: GDPR, Canada. Absolutely. Anne: And California now has their own set of rules. And so -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- it really is. And I think as we progress, and data just becomes increasingly larger and larger and just more and more digital information coming at us, I don't think those laws are going to go away. I think they're going to be more of them coming. And so we need to secure permission in order to email people. And I think that is a very forward thinking, modern mindset, number one. So how do you get people on your list? You must offer them a way to get off of the list if you did not ask for their permission. Absolutely. So that's number one. Laya: That's number one. Yeah. And then frequency in general, I think we touched on this just a moment ago. I have a different kind of routine than you do, but also a very different brand and I'm not offering coaching and products and things like that, but always providing value within that email. And keeping it, for me, I feel like everyone realizes their attention span. Anne: Oh my goodness, yes. Laya: We -- the humankind has the intention span of a gnat these days. You know, if you're still listening right now, a few minutes in, we're grateful for that attention because thank you for being more than a gnat. Anne: Yeah. Laya: But really you, you have to be concise in your message and don't waste the reader's time. Value their time and input and that they gave that much to you. So being concise is key. What is there? There's like a new acronym at the top, TL/DR. Too long didn't read. And that's really to give you the footnotes of what you may say in three paragraphs in three sentences. And so once you write that email, I always take a step back, come back to it a few hours, or you know, even a day later, if I have that opportunity and like cut it down. I mean, you feel like you've got so much to say. Somebody else may only have just, you know, wants the bullets or the, the light version of that. So keep that in mind. Anne: And you, and you mentioned too that you send a quarterly email and say, well, maybe if you're going to book out a certain amount. So very similar to our BOSS Blasts, you know, we do a monthly BOSS Blast that just has bookout dates. It's super simple. It's like a few sentences. Hey, happy summer, you know, nothing that's necessarily too spammy or selly and oh, by the way, here's the new project that I just voiced or whatever that is, a picture of my cat. Again, it could be, you know, something that is not going to be intensely annoying. By the way the BOSS Blasts are -- Laya: Or selly. Anne: Or selly. By the way, the BOSS Blasts are all what I call vetted lists. People have already given permission. So we do a once a month. And in reality, we also know who we're sending to, so agencies or we're sending to in-house production companies. So if they've already agreed to allow us to send them email, they're expecting us to market to them. But again, we still don't want to waste their time. We're very succinct in our body of our text and our email. And hey, these are my bookout dates. Here's a new project, send a link to YouTube channel. If they want to take a look at that, and hey, have a great summer or, you know, hope you're doing well. And that's it. And actually once a month, if you think about it, and I always tell the story, like I subscribe to, I don't know, Old Navy, right? Old Navy three or four times a week sends me email when they have sales on different things. And so I know I'm subscribed, so I'm okay with getting the email from Old Navy. And as it goes through my inbox, I see it. I look at the subject, I look at who it's from. I look at the subject, and if that subject entices me to open it up, like maybe there's a sale. Well, I have -- a sale on shorts. I have a need for a pair of shorts. That's going to make me click it. I click it. And then I see the body of the email. Maybe there's a coupon code or whatever there is. And then if I want to go and buy, I will go to the website and buy. Think of that in terms of your voiceover business. Laya: Yes. Anne: So people may just see who it's coming from and your subject line. And if they don't need you at the time, they may just let it go through your inbox. Especially if they've given you permission, right, to allow you to market to them. It's okay. It's going to stay in my -- or you'll delete it later if you don't need it. But that doesn't mean that you can't email them next month, right? And next month they're like, oh yes, I need a voiceover to do this particular job. Click and buy. Boom. That's it. Laya: Yeah. And a good point of that is, especially if you are including your bookout dates -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- maybe include the -- as your subject line. So if they don't read, and they're like, oh shit, she's out of town next week. Anne: Yup. Laya: I was just thinking I needed a voice talent. And you know what? I want to pick up the phone now so I can lock her in for, you know, before this time she's given us, a couple of weeks. How far out, just speaking of bookout dates -- I don't want to digress from this. This topic is so key -- but how far out do you give your clients notice on bookout dates? Anne: Well, I do a monthly blast. So it's anything within the month. Laya: Okay, so wherever that falls. Anne: Yup. Laya: Got it. Curious about that. Like how far is too long? I think two weeks' notice is always good because inevitably you get the call like the day before you leave town. Anne: Exactly. Laya: That's a whole other conversation. Anne: Don't you always get the most work when you leave town? Always, right. Laya: When you're out of town. Yes. But I have a hard habit of actually traveling with my rig. Which I don't mind. Anne: That's another episode. Laya: That's another conversation, for sure, for sure. But getting back to this, I got to ask you two questions, which email marketing platform do you use? I use MailChimp. I was curious what you use. Anne: I use -- well, for my BOSS Blast, I use Active Campaign because I have a number of contacts. Laya: Okay. Anne: And usually the mail servers or the mail campaigns, they have a limit to the number of contacts or you pay based on the amount of contacts that you have. Laya: Pay over. Yeah. Anne: I used to use MailChimp. And now I just, because I went to a bigger platform with the BOSS Blast because I need to support a whole lot more contacts -- Laya: Yeah, they charge you per, right. Anne: -- I need to support like 90,000 contexts. So I'm using Active Campaign. Laya: Go girl. Yeah. Anne: So. Laya: Yeah, I'm on MailChimp because under 1000 is free. Anne: Yup, yup. Laya: And I really like the interface and the kind of the user experience, the UX on that is really flawless -- Anne: Oh yeah, I love MailChimp. Laya: -- for someone that does and doesn't know, plus they're Atlanta based, shout out, MailChimp. So that's kind of become my CRM, which leads me to my next question, to CRM or not? Anne Ganguzza, what's your take? Anne: Well, the CRM, I've often thought -- I tried Nimble back in the day, and Nimble had a problem with the amount of email that I had in Gmail. So, and I may be very untypical, and I'll just kind of, I digress just a little bit. Right now, if I look at my inbox -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- I have, uh, where does it tell me -- I have 949,367 unread emails. So, so what that means is -- Laya: Oh my gosh! Hold, can we have a moment for my zero inbox anxiety that just had a heart -- Anne: I know! Laya: -- palpitation? Anne: Most people have that. Most people have that. Laya: Anne, I have a zero inbox threshold. It's the Virgo in me and also the highly control freak. And I don't know, I don't know what that is, but you're -- you just gave me a heart palpitation. Anne: I know. Well, okay. So very few people know this about me, but the people that do know me, they know me so well. So I signed on to Gmail back in the day when it first started. I want to say it was 1990-something. And so Google is a search engine. So for me, I just never deleted my email because I can search my mail. Laya: Sure. Anne: And it's a really good search engine, by the way, if you've ever used Google at all. Laya: Yes, it is. Anne: The Gmail search engine is a great search engine, so I've never had the desire to really delete my mail. So. Yeah. Laya: Oh my gosh, I have a funny story for you really quickly. You know, how on your phone, if you're using an Apple phone, you can accidentally like select all, if you are in your email box? Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: Well, I did that once, recently. I select all and deleted, and I didn't mean to do it, but I did it. And then like after I got over the initial -- luckily this was not my business inbox, but after I got over the initial, like panic that I had just lost all this content, I felt like -- Anne: Free. Laya: -- kind of, yeah, totally free. Meanwhile, you're over there just hoarding. Anne: I know, unread emails do not disturb me -- Laya: It's awesome. Anne: -- because I look at it as a search engine. Laya: Okay. They disturb me. But that's fine. Anne: So Nimble back in the day had a problem. They wanted to charge me based upon the number of emails. And so I was like, well -- Laya: They were gonna get rich on you, wow. Anne: -- I am not paying that. And so in reality before then I had used Gmail believe it or not just to organize all of my contacts and star them and put colors on them. And that became my working folder of contacts. And ultimately, you know, my Active Campaign, which is my mailer. And I had MailChimp for a long time before I ran out of the contacts, and I just had, then I had to go into pricing more of which one was better, and which mail service could do the best for me. So I ended up with Active Campaign because it handled the amount of contacts, but it's also a CRM for me. I have a database of contacts. I know what the last campaign was sent. I know if they opened it. I know if they clicked. I know what links they clicked. And that is my CRM. And I have automations so that if I want to follow back with this particular contact, I can do that. So that's my CRM -- Laya: Yeah, that's awesome. Anne: -- but not -- it's not like a CRM like Nimble or any other, HubSpot or those types of things that you buy specifically a CRM for, but it does everything that I need a CRM to do. Laya: Yeah. And I appreciate you giving us that candid feedback because I feel like there is a little bit of a push, and that's from some really great established voiceover-specific CRMs that have been fabulous for people. I just haven't personally kind of gone down that path yet. I always feel like, you know, is it cart before the horse, chicken before the egg? Like, you don't know, you need a CRM until you need a CRM, and you've got enough contacts, but it's also very hard to start or justify cost when you don't feel like you have a lot of contacts. So I kind of bridged this gap between managing my contacts through -- Anne: Yup, yup. Laya: -- MailChimp, but also used HubSpot and Zapier to really connect those two and extract the emails and the content and the information I needed. There's a free program within those two that, that I was able to leverage. And I don't go back to it on a regular basis. I probably scrub all of my emails through the connection of Zapier and HubSpot maybe twice a year. And I would like to migrate eventually to a CRM because I feel that it can be wildly beneficial, especially as an ex-marketer and a new modern-minded entrepreneur. But I haven't gotten there yet either. And I think that's okay. Anne: Yes. Laya: I still have a thriving business. I feel like I have a flag system as well within Apple mail. And right now it works for me, but I definitely see that in my future too. So it's good to hear your feedback, especially with such an established list like you have. Um, very cool. Thanks for sharing. Anne: I just have never kind of had the need to go more in depth than that. You know? I've got all the information that I need in terms of the contact information, the campaign they last opened, when the campaign was sent. I mean, there's just a ton of information. And if I feel like I need to have something that prompts me to contact them again, I build an automation, and that's, that's really all it is. So. Laya: Yeah. Talk to me a little bit more about automation. I use it in some other scheduling platforms, like in Calendly. I use that there when scheduling for voiceover sessions and things like that. And I definitely think there's a whole conversation around hacks throughout this marketing bubble that can help streamline our workflow and make us more efficiently productive in our VO BOSS businesses. But talk to me about automation and how you use it in email. And do you use it as a one-off to individuals or is it just cyclical? How does it work? Anne: It can be either or. So it really depends on where I'm doing this. So if I'm just working out of Gmail for an individual contact, um, and sometimes this works or not, you know, I have something called Boomerang, which Boomerang allows you to -- Laya: Okay. Anne: -- you kind of put that to rest. It'll reappear in your inbox. And then if you decide you want to schedule an email after that, after you read it, there's lots of different things that you can do. You can schedule an email to go out, you know, the following week or the following month. In my Active Campaign, there is a whole module that you can build automations off of. And I have -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- information on, you know, I can put contacts in a list and contacts that are a part of that list. Every time something happens, every time they open an email, every time I send a campaign or whatever it is, it goes into an automation. And then it's like, you build a flow chart. And so, okay, open this campaign, and then you want to say, okay, they opened the campaign. Then, you know, wait two days and then send them a follow-up email. And then after the follow-up email, we're going to wait maybe a week or maybe a month. And we're going to send up the second follow-up email. And so you can check on the contact and know where they are in that automation. Are they 20% through? Are they, you know, have they reached this? Laya: Did they read the whole thing? They click this link? Right? Very cool. Anne: yeah. Laya: I love how we can leverage that now to make us a little bit more savvy in our marketing -- Anne: Exactly. Laya: -- more personal, but also again, with those light touches of personal connection, like as if, without being Big Brother -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and like, you know, too heavy in the sell or too creepy in the, in the callouts -- 'cause a lot of people that don't understand marketing or like how was that thing following me? Well, how did it know? At this point I think everyone's onto those automations, but it's also so helpful to streamline your business. So I love seeing that in real-world applications. Anne: Yeah. Absolutely. It's, you know, and it's something you have to put your time into. I know there's so many BOSSes out there -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- and marketing -- you know, it's interesting. 'Cause I think marketing is the thing that we need the most of as entrepreneurs and business owners. But yet it is the thing that people like the least, or it's also the thing -- and this is, this is straight-up experience in terms of selling classes for years to the voiceover industry -- it is the class that does the worst in terms of sales, meaning they all say they need it. They all say they want it. But yet when it comes time for clicking the buy, right? Most voice talent are going to buy the performance oriented class rather than the marketing class. And it's just the truth there. Laya: Yeah. Because it's scary. Anne: It is. Laya: And it's, there's so much complexity, and then you feel like, you know, you need it, but you can't learn it. Anne: But you can learn it. Laya: Gosh, it's an investment. Anne: That's the thing. Laya: And you absolutely can. Anne: I want people to know that. Laya: These can be baby steps. Yeah. That's why, I'm glad we talked about the CRM. Like I felt so much pressure to invest in the system that I was going to have to learn and apply and et cetera. And I just said, hold on a second. Let me just piece by piece. I know that's on my future roadmap as far as the business owner. However right now this is working for me. And I think it's okay to say that. Anne: You know -- Laya: You know? Anne: You know what's so interesting is that I did not go to school for marketing. Like nowhere in my educational history was there ever a marketing in class ever. And as a matter of fact, I didn't even start to learn how to market until I started becoming an entrepreneur, which is boom, I quit my corporate job. And all of a sudden here I was trying to build up my voiceover business. And so I went from making a salary to making $0, and my own, I'm going to say guilt -- Laya: Same here, girl. Anne: -- guilt maybe of not being able to contribute to the household motivated me to move my butt to figure out how am I going to make money at this? Because I have to, because I want to be a contributor to the household. And it was my own motivation and push that I learned marketing online. I literally, I signed up for mailing lists. I saw how other people marketed. And over the years, I literally just became a marketer myself because I had to. I mean, it was just, and I think that anybody -- look, if I can do it, I mean, honestly I think anybody can learn marketing. It just takes -- Laya: Yeah, truth serum here. I'm right there with you. I went to school for radio broadcasting, not marketing, but then became a VP of marketing -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- because of learning -- Anne: Exactly. Laya: -- and real-world application and just -- Anne: To survive. Laya: -- paying attention to -- yeah. And to what resonates with you as a person. Right? And that's really all it comes down to. It's like, how would you want to be approached? Anne: Be marketed to. So you know how to market to people. Laya: Exactly. Anne: That's it. Yeah. Laya: Pay attention. That's the modern mindset in marketing. Anne: That's exactly -- I think, you know what? I think that's absolutely how I even learned to like, what is acceptable in terms of email marketing? Right? Well, I'm email marketed to. Sign up for those lists. This is probably why I have 967,000 unread emails, because guess what? I signed up for every type of business email list there was -- Laya: Right. Anne: -- so that I could -- Laya: It's research. Anne: -- yeah. So that I could get those emails, look at them and say, hmm, okay. I see how they're marketing. I like this one. I don't like this one. This one's annoying. And literally, I completely honest, as a matter of fact, I didn't even realize that that's probably why I have all the unread messages, but again, I did open some of them. Right? And I did open enough of them to really kind of learn how to market in my own way that I felt would be effective for my business so everyone can learn. Laya: Yeah. Anne: Everyone can learn. Laya: Absolutely. And what's cool about email marketing, if you are a numbers person or if you kind of, you like to look at stats and see like a real ROI and the real results, so many of these platforms may get really hyper easy for us to understand the analytics behind what you're sending out. And then you can kind of tweak accordingly, you know. MailChimp makes it really user-friendly. I'm able to see how many people, what my open rate was, which really just means how many people from that several hundred actually clicked on my email, actually clicked through to see my latest link or my latest video that I embedded there. Anne: Yeah. Laya: It makes it so easy to drag and drop graphics and blocks. Anne: Sure. Laya: And there's so many new, easy platforms to help you get imagery and borrow content or share a great story. So it really doesn't have to be over complicated, and you might actually surprise yourself in seeing how fun it is to play the numbers game on the back end. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And, and, you know, get your little virtual pat on the back by looking at your analytics and starting to understand those things. And these days, everything from websites, minds -- again, with Squarespace, it makes it super easy on the back end to see those things. Anne: Yeah. Wix -- Laya: Same with like MailChimp -- Anne: -- as well. Laya: -- same with those, all of those, make it super kind of cool to look at -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- your new, modern way of marketing again. So it's, it's really interesting to dive in once you do. Anne: And by the way, for those of you that are interested, a 10% open rate is actually very good. And so -- Laya: So good, so good! Anne: -- if you send an email to 100 people, if 10 of them open that email, that's awesome. And if by the way, over 1% click on it, that is awesome. So that -- Laya: It's a win! Anne: -- is a win for you. So it's funny how many people don't realize, you know, it was kind of like when you invite people to a party, right? They say expect 10% to -- well, maybe not a party, but an event, right? Expect 10% to show up. Laya: Oh yeah. Anne: If it's my party, I want 100% of my people to respond. Laya: 100% attendance. Anne: Well, here's the deal. How interesting of a comparison is that? If I have a party and I invite people that I know, and they're my friends and they know me very well, I expect 100% of people to show up. Right? Maybe 90, if there's -- Laya: Or at least respond. Anne: Right? Laya: Sure. Right. Anne: So think about that in terms of your email marketing, right. If you don't know anybody that you're inviting to the party, what are you going to say to get them interested? Right? And how many are actually going to open that invitation, and then how many people are actually going to click and go to the party? So I like to maybe compare it to, to the party. So that 10% open rate and over a 1% click rate is awesome. So. Laya: Don't, don't let that discourage you. Anne: Exactly. Laya: Exactly right. And I think it's okay to, just like we've talked about in past episodes of like, what do I even say? You know, have a purpose, have something to share. Yes. But it's okay to start off with a little bit of kind of candid, you know, human, like -- Anne: Photo of my cat. Laya: -- hey, this is my -- Anne: This is my cat! Laya: -- very first email blast. Thank you for allowing me the space to share. And if you've gotten this far, I appreciate it and hope you're having an awesome day so far, you know. It's okay to be very human in that. In fact, I find that -- Anne: Will help Laya: -- that creates more of -- yeah, connection and more empathy from whoever might be on the other end opening it. So don't let that scare you. Anne: Good stuff, wow. I really feel email marketing is just one of those that I feel the mysteries of the universe for most voice talent. And we hope that we've been able to help you guys at least cut through -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- some of the mystery and get you thinking in a modern mindset for email marketing for today. Laya: Yes. Thank you for having me, Anne. It's always a pleasure. I'm looking forward to our next conversation. Anne: Me too, me too. Laya: Thanks for having me, BOSSes. Anne: Me too. That's a big shout-out to ipDTL, our sponsor. You too can connect like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com, and you guys, have an amazing week, and we will both see you next week. Bye-Bye. Laya: Thanks, everybody. Bye-bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.