VO BOSS

Ok, Bosses. We’re picking up right where we left off…in Miami! Anne & Pilar continue discussing Pilar’s Journey in Part 2 of the Boss Voces Premiere. Pilar begins in Miami with no TV gigs and begins her radio + voice dubbing career. More at https://www.voboss.com/pilars-journey-part-2 Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I'm honored to bring back special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Pilar is a bilingual voice actor, telenova star, and radio personality born and raised in New York City. She broke into show business and had roles with "Ugly Betty," "Poor Pablo," "Eternally Manuela," and "El Cartel" filmed in Colombia and Miami. And in our last episode, we talked about her story, and we ended up from Colombia, now she's arrived in Miami, so we're going to continue the story today. And before that, I want to say that she also has booth a booth kitty, and outside of my booth right now, Pilar, is my cute little Sabrina cat who is jealous because the door is closed, and I know she wants to come in, so. She's -- she wants to come in and talk to you as well. Pilar: I love it. I love it. Anne: Pilar, it's so great to have you back. Pilar: I am so glad to be here. Thank you, Anne. Anne: And what an amazing story, like I said, triple, quadruple threat, TV, radio, voiceover, singer. I mean, you have done it all. And what an interesting, wonderful story you had telling us last episode about your theater experience, your television experience, and your success story in Colombia. And you decided to come back to the States and decided to move to Miami. Pilar: Yes. Anne: So let's pick up from your arrival in Miami and your career once you got there. Pilar: So I get to Miami, and I am staying with my cousins who live in Key Biscayne. I'm thinking I'm all that, you know? I'm this telenovela star. I'm -- where do I sign? Luckily I got, I got an agent really quickly because a friend of mine introduced me to this friend who was a casting director. And the casting director met with me and said, hey, you know, there's this agent. And so I get this agent really quickly and, and she starts sending me out. Anne: So yeah, this is an agent, not a voiceover agent, but you had just started when -- Pilar: No. Anne: -- you were, at the tail end, I think when you were at Colombia, you said you started doing some voiceover for an animated series. So this agent is on camera -- Pilar: Yeah, this is, this is -- Anne: -- casting agent? Pilar: Yeah, my whole up until now, my whole concentration was acting. It wasn't -- Anne: Got it. Pilar: -- voice acting because that's how I had made my bread and butter for the previous nine years. Anne: Sure. Pilar: And so the, the voice acting that I did in Colombia and, you know, the fascination I had with radio, it was just kind of like a, a fun thing. You know? It was just kind of like a fun thing, but I didn't look at it as anything kind of anything serious. So I get this on-camera agent, and I start auditioning and she sends me out on audition and auditions and auditions and I get nothing. And I'm like, oh dear. Okay. Anne: Interesting. You talked before about how you had set visions, right? Pilar: Yep. Anne: And you meditated? Pilar: Yep. Anne: Did you go back to that once you were in Miami? Pilar: No. Anne: Interesting. Pilar: I did not. I did not. Not at the beginning. Okay? The one thing that is probably been a constant my entire life is the importance of training. So even while I was on television every night, I was taking acting classes, and I did them periodically and I worked with some great people in Colombia. And so then I realized, ooh, I'm not booking. I had better get on the horn, and I had better start going back. And so I started taking auditioning classes because I just, I had really stopped auditioning, you know. I'd, I would audition for a role and I would get it, you know? It was just kinda like -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- kind of thing. Anne: I was gonna ask you, if you note, what were differences, right, when you were in Colombia versus Florida, what differences in the auditioning process or differences in, I dunno, anything in terms of getting roles? What was different that you noticed? Pilar: Well, for one thing, the community is, was much larger. So there was a lot more competition. Anne: Got it. Pilar: Which means that people were way more polished in their auditions. It was very, very much more competitive. So I realized because I was out of practice. Auditioning was not something that I was doing on a, on a regular basis. When I was living in New York, the -- I did that on a regular basis. And you know, one of the things that I learned in, in Miami from a very close friend of mine, he said, auditioning is the job. Acting is what you get to do once in a while. Auditioning is the job, acting as the hobby. Anne: Yeah. Similar to voice acting. Right? Pilar: Exactly. So I started, I started doing that, and, uh, I started getting better at auditioning. And I started actually booking theater roles. So I became pretty, pretty regular in booking theater gigs, which I loved because I got to, you know, I, I got to go back to, you know, when I used to do it a lot more after college and stuff, but still, you know, that didn't really pay the bills. One thing that I would notice was that the theater actors, they would talk about how they were going to the studios, dubbing studios, or they were coming to where they grew up going from. And I was like kind of curious, you know, what's, what's this whole dubbing thing about? And so a friend of mine said, well, you know, why don't you go to this studio? And so I, I called somebody up and it was a friend of a friend. And so I went and I auditioned, and that's the very first time I saw like a studio with different booths. And, and I thought, oh, this is really interesting. And so I was dubbing from another language, and they were all in Spanish. They were doing all these dubbing, these, these telenovellas from Spanish into English. And so -- Anne: Did you have any training in it previously or was it just something that you kind of picked up? Pilar: Zero, yet again, just like when I went down to Colombia, I had very little training and in TV, and then I, I had no training in, in doing this. Anne: But then you had all experience in television and being in television -- Pilar: Yes. Anne: -- so that I'm sure helped you in your dubbing experience because you already knew what it was like to be the actor, right, on camera. Pilar: Right. Anne: And now you could absolutely, probably just parallel that with dubbing. Pilar: Exactly. So the acting part of it was the important part of it. Anne: Yeah. Yup, exactly. Pilar: But there's the technical side of it, which is you have to match lips and as they say out here, lip flaps, so you have to figure that part out. So I auditioned a lot. Didn't get very far and I continued. I continued to do my theater and I did a little bit of commercials. Anne: Now, at this time, was it all in Spanish or was it both? Pilar: No, it was all dubbing from Spanish into English. Anne: Okay. Pilar: Yeah. It was 100% or from -- but I was just auditioning, you know. So I auditioned, I would say I auditioned quite a few times, and then I actually got a gig. Anne: Meaning, well, I guess my question would be like, were you auditioning for roles in Spanish or both Spanish and English at the time auditioning? Pilar: So here's the thing, my experience up until this moment was only with dubbing. Anne: Okay. Pilar: I had no other access to like, what is now, you know, doing commercial voiceover or medical narration or e-learning, I didn't know any part of that business. Anne: I'm thinking even on camera, were you, when you were auditioning on camera, were you auditioning for roles that were Spanish -- Pilar: Yes. Anne: -- or for Spanish and English both? Pilar: Both. Anne: Okay. Pilar: I was doing both. I was, yeah. So my life has always been about doing -- Anne: Both. Pilar: -- doing both. Yeah. Anne: Yeah, the reason why I wanted to call that out is because for a person -- I am not bilingual. Right? For me, there's only just English. So I want to make sure that I hear when you are talking bilingual, like you have like almost, is it more opportunity or is it more work for more opportunity? And what are the things that you need to be considerate of when you are auditioning for both Spanish and English or are there differences?So it's just something for me, it's a new perspective. Pilar: So I think that the most important thing, really, it all comes down to the acting, Anne. It's not really -- Anne: Right. Pilar: -- about the language because it all starts from inside. So for me with the on-camera, and this is what I discovered when I was doing dubbing, is that whenever you're looking at, what's in front of you on the screen, if you're dubbing a, a woman who is -- or a character who is in pain or who is crying, you have to feel that pain, you have to feel that sadness. Because if you don't, it's not going to show up in your voice. Anne: Sure, sure, exactly. Pilar: It's not about manipulating the voice. It's about starting from the inside out, which is what a lot of people, when they're first starting out in the business, I hear this all the time -- Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: -- everywhere, on Clubhouse. Oh, I've got a really good voice. And how do I make my voice this? And it's like, no. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: That's not what it's about. It has to start -- that's why the acting -- Anne: From the inside. Pilar: -- matters. It has to start from the inside. Anne: Yeah. I, sorry, I didn't, I got off a little bit on a tangent there -- Pilar: No, no, no, no, no! Anne: But yeah. So yeah, continuing while you are auditioning like crazy in Florida. Pilar: So I'm auditioning like crazy for voiceover, but I'm still doing my, my theater. I was doing my commercials. I gave myself for the first time in my life, I, I went on this cruise. It was called, what was it called? Celebrate your life, a Louise Hay cruise. Very, very spiritual. And there were all these great speakers. Wayne Dyer was there. Anne: Yup, yup. Pilar: Gregg Braden was there. It was a, it was like the coolest thing. And I'm like, oh my gosh. I met somebody. It was like, Ooh, this is really cool. And then I came back, and I get this call for an audition. And there, this friend of mine, who's an actor. He's like, well, you know, they want you to audition in this dubbing studio for this role. And I get the role. And at the same time that I get the role, I have this major health challenge, and I'm like, oh no, what's going to happen? And I'm like, you know what, I'm going to do this. I'm just going to do this. And then the enormity of it hits me 'cause I'm like, oh, wait a minute. I don't know anything about voiceover. I don't know how to do this. It's like, I'm an actor. And so I was really lucky because I had this great engineer, Rafael. I'll never forget him. And he kind of guided me, and we would do it like on a weekly basis. 'Cause I was dubbing a show. I was dubbing a series and it was coincidentally, it was Colombian. So I just started dubbing an episode or two a week, and he would teach me. And he'd be like, okay, I need a little bit more from you, do this from you. A lot of it was just observing and listening and looking what was on the screen and doing what that character was doing on the screen and incorporating it into myself in English, through my voice. So, you know, I did that, I got better. Then I got a call from another studio and then a third studio. And I was like, oh, this is really cool. Anne: Success begets success. Pilar: Success begets success. Right? Anne: Exactly. Pilar: Now here's the thing about Miami. Miami is a right to work state. So the rates are not that great. Dubbing in itself is, is a, is not -- Anne: Yes. Pilar: -- a moneymaker. Let's put it that way. Anne: I was gonna say that. And especially now given the current situation, I know Netflix has just gone crazy, and there's lots of opportunities for dubbing these days. Pilar: Yes. But here's the thing, the good thing about the union, they signed an agreement. I think it was two years ago, with Netflix. So they have to have certain rates. Anne: Good. Excellent. Pilar: Yeah, yeah. Anne: Well, I was just meaning I've -- I'm hearing so much about more opportunities these days since the pandemic, since there's just a lot of -- Netflix has been producing a lot more movies -- Pilar: Yes, yes. Anne: -- and the streaming stations. So I feel like there's more dubbing opportunities that I'm hearing about these days. Pilar: Yes. Not a ton. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Pilar: It's really great. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: So, so I started doing more and then I realize, oh, well this is interesting, but again, not much money. So I thought, well, let me, let me try. Somebody told me about an audiobook kind of a situation. I thought, oh, okay. This is interesting. Let me do, let me see what's going on with that. And so I get on ACX. I do my first book. The book is terrible. Okay? I'm gonna, I'm just gonna tell you right now. Anne: This is why I don't do books. I'm just saying. Pilar: Oh my God, the book, I didn't want -- the book itself, the book itself wasn't terrible. My recording. I mean, I don't think, you know, people have bought the book, and I've done, you know, a bunch of books since then. But I just, I look back at that first book, and I was like, oh my gosh, it's really kind of frightening. But you know, I really got into it because it was a character driven. Anne: Sure. Pilar: Again, though, if you're not a technical person -- everybody talks about getting into audiobooks. The one thing I will say, and it's, it's gotten a lot better. The technology has gotten a lot better, but if you're not a super-duper wiz at editing -- Anne: Oh, it's a lot of work. Pilar: It's a lot of work is all I'm going to say. Anne: Any long format narration, but especially books. Pilar: Yes. Anne: Yes. Pilar: Especially books. Anne: So much work. Pilar: It's a lot. It's a lot. So I don't -- Anne: And the money that you're making from it, I don't, for me, it just, it was like, gosh, it's so much work for not a lot of money. So -- Pilar: I totally agree. I totally agree. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: So I did a couple. I didn't do that many. I did a couple and then I was like, oh, this is just so much work. I started off, I had a booth in my kitchen, outside of my kitchen. It was in the living room and I, a friend of mine helped me, you know, construct it. It was really great. And then I discovered that every 10 minutes I had to stop because the stupid sound of the refrigerator would, would come into the recording. Anne: Yes. Pilar: Oh my gosh, you have no idea how terrible that was. So I moved it into the, a closet, which I actually had a really good, very, very narrow but long closet. So I, after a couple of iterations that became my studio, but I still wasn't making a lot of money. So I decided, you know what? I'm going to try, I'm going to send out feelers for like a nine to five job or a part-time job in radio. Anne: I was just gonna ask you that because there's so many people when they're trying to get into voiceover, and they want to go full time. And even when I started full-time, I had to have a part-time job so that I felt like I could contribute to paying the bills in terms of the household, for sure. So I was wondering through all those years, when you were like, kind of scraping by, did you have a second job doing something different like, I don't know, waitress, bartender, corporate? Pilar: I always had an administrative job going, like I was an administrative assistant -- Anne: Yup, yup. Pilar: -- to a friend of mine and she was great, 'cause I could always go and come back. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Pilar: She was really understanding. Anne: You could do your auditions. Pilar: Yes. So, you know, sometimes I would work for her full-time. Sometimes I would work part-time. Anne: Yup. Pilar: So it was really great to be able to go back and forth in that. But yeah, I always had a second job, and then I realized, you know, what, if I could have a second job doing something like radio? So I went, I went down the list of all the radio stations in Miami -- again, and now I'm realizing it as, as we're having this conversation. I did actually, I marketed myself out to them. Anne: There you go. Did you manifest? Did you manifest your radio job? Pilar: This, I started, I started manifesting. Yes. I went back to that. Yes, ma'am. I started seeing myself in front of a, in front of a microphone. Absolutely. And I didn't get one bite. Okay? Indeed.com, I papered my resume. And I spent a year and a half looking for this, but I set an intention, I set an intention. I said, I'm going to get a radio job. And the very last place that I looked at was, and I was talking to my friend who I had been her administrative assistant. We became each other's accountability buddies. She said, well, um, why don't you call up WLRN? WLRN is the NPR satellite in Miami. And I had looked at their website, and it said that there was a three to five-year position. And I was like -- three to five years experience needed. And I thought, I don't have three to five years. And she said, just write them. Just say, you're willing to work for them. You know, just say, you know, and I was like, you know what? Why not? Anne: I'm eager to learn. Pilar: Exactly. That's what exactly -- I'm eager to learn. I'd sent out so many resumes, Anne, and to so many different -- all of the companies in Miami. So I'm talking to her, and this is, this is the great part. This is like the manifesting part because I really, really was manifesting this heavily. I send it out while I'm talking to my friend on the phone. I knew how to do this by heart by now. I'd composed a letter. I sent my resume. I sent a couple of samples. Not 20 minutes later, I get a call from the guy -- Anne: Wow. Pilar: -- saying, do you want to meet? And I was like, sure, I'd love to. So I went and I met with him a couple of times, and they started me off working for them. So this was a, it was a part-time job because they were affiliated with a school. And so they said, well, you know, you -- we'll, we'll get you on the air, and then you'll do some spots for us. I was like, okay, great. So before a month was out, I was on the air, and I was doing spots for them, underwriting spots. They don't call them commercials because it's, you know, it's, it's, you know -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- it's not-for-profit. Anne: So it wasn't a show? You just started doing spots for them. Pilar: I started doing spots for them, but then they put me on the air from 10 to 2. Anne: Okay. PIlar: And then, so what I would do was that on my breaks, because I was hired from, you know, I would get there, like, let's say 9, 9:30, and then I would leave after my spot. So between breaks, when the shows were on, I would go into the other room and do the spots. Anne: Sure. Pilar: And then they started giving spots and then they started giving me more spots. And then I, I managed to work out a deal with them through the union and so that I would do their -- and I would produce their spots. So I would put music and sound effects under for their TV arm of the company. Anne: Oh, wait. So remember when I said quadruple threat? So now we've got yet another. Now she's producing spots as well! Pilar: Well, again, Anne. Anne: Yup. Pilar: I have no idea what I'm doing, right? Anne: Yup. Pilar: Because I, you know, I would just play record. Anne: Sure, sure. Pilar: So now I have to put, so I now have to do tracks, and I had to learn a whole set of other skills -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- because I didn't know, I didn't know how to do a console, how to handle a console and do three things at once. So now I'm, I'm producing spots, and then they give me more, and then they give me more and I'm like, wow, okay, I'm getting -- it's almost like the 10,000 hours -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- in, you know, in Outliers. It's like, I'm getting all this training. Anne: I think, I think that's great. And I love the 10,000 hours thing from Malcolm. And I am a total proponent of you need 10,000 hours. And whether you realize it or not, you had put your 10,000 hours in many aspects of your career. And again, if I can recap, you manifested, you wanted to be in radio. It didn't happen overnight. And that's one thing I want to kinda just touch back upon. Because a lot of times I think we're impatient with ourselves. And I think for me, going by my gut, this is what I always say, going by my gut, manifestation, doesn't always happen overnight. And I think that it leads you to the right steps to get to the right place so that you can fulfill that dream or that goal. And so, even though it didn't happen overnight, it did happen because you manifested it. You wanted it, you took the steps that were required to make it happen. And it happened. So BOSSes out there, if you're listening, we can all be learning about this. We can all give ourselves some grace, be patient, but believe in the manifestation and take those steps that it takes to cultivate and achieve that dream. So, sorry, just had a break in there with the educational moment. Pilar: And it's so important what you just said, Anne, because we're thinking that when we call it into being, let's say we're manifesting it, that it's going to happen on our timeline. Anne: Exactly. Pilar: Who died and made you God? Right? Who said that you would, that you would be doing this? Or if I, in my case that, because I said, I want to work in radio that next month, the following month -- Anne: Right. Pilar: -- I was going to be working radio? No. Anne: Right, right. Pilar: No, no, no, no, no. That's not the way it happens. Like there's steps. Anne: It evolves. Pilar: And if you cut those steps, and you, and you jump, you're going to be disappointed or you're going to do it the wrong way. There's a reason that the things come into your life when they come into your life. Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: And it's because it's when you're ready to receive them, then you can go, oh, because at that moment, when I sent out that resume, I was ready. I might not have been ready if I had sent it out earlier. It may not have hit in the right way. Anne: Sure. Pilar: Later I talked to my boss at WLRN, and he said, you know, I get resumes all the time. It's just that when I read yours, it really fit because you're, you're a Latina. So you could say all these complicated words that would come out in Spanish and French because I also speak French. So, you know, sometimes these things would -- Anne: And yet another threat. I love it. Pilar: But you know, like sometimes there would be these, these weird companies, these weird -- not weird. They're not weird, but they're just French companies. So with the accent -- Anne: Sure, sure. Pilar: -- it would just come out better. And I will say one thing that was really fun when I was working in radio was that I got to say my name the way I would say -- 'cause like, if I say my name like, you know -- my, my name is Pilar Uribe. And that's how I, that's how I slate, Pilar Uribe. But once in a while I get to slate my name the way I usually, I would say it on the radio -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- which was "mi nombre es Pilar Uribe. Hola, Pilar Uribe" Anne: Ooh. Pilar: So it's like, it's so much fun to actually say my name. 'Cause I don't, I don't get to do that very often. Anne: Sure, sure. Pilar: You know? So we was fun to be able to use the bilingual aspect of it all. I mean, I was literally daily using it in the studio because I had to pronounce words in a certain way or -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- you know, so that was really fun to -- Anne: So now, how long was your radio career with WLRN? Pilar: It was two and a half years. Anne: Okay. Pilar: And one day my, my landlady writes me an email and says, I'm selling the apartment. I'd spent the entire, my 16 years in, in Miami in the same apartment. I had a great land lady, always had really good luck with that. And I was, I panicked. I was like, oh my gosh, what do I do? And I thought, this is the moment. This is the time -- Anne: For change. Pilar: -- I had been talking about moving. And this is the moment to go and move. And this is the moment for a shift. I literally felt the shift. I was terrified. And I will say that one of the things about doing something new is that there's always the element of fear. Always. Anne: Oh yes. Yes, yes. Pilar: So to sit there and you know, when people say, oh yeah, I went ahead and did this. And you know, you hear these marketing gurus. I, I listen to them on Clubhouse, and you know, they -- do this and I got this and they did this. And it's like, all of that happens with fear. It's just that the courage to be able to change -- Anne: To move through it. Pilar: -- and to move through it is -- Anne: To work through it. Pilar: -- is higher -- Anne: Doesn't mean that you're not scared. Pilar: -- than fear. Exactly. Anne: But you're moving through, and you know what's so interesting about the move? I've got two stories about moving and change. I remember when I personally, I felt like I needed the change. And one was when my husband and I were in New Jersey, and I said, I'm done. I, I love New Jersey. It's served me well, but I'm done. And I would love to go live in California. Jerry, why don't you see if you can get a transfer? And lo and behold, he did. And then I said to him, oh, by the way, Jerry, I need you to be able to make one and a half times what you're making now, because, because I want to quit my job and go full-time into VO. And guess what? It happened. However, nine months after that, he then got laid off from his job. But we stayed. We stayed, you know, we moved to California, we stayed in California, and we worked through it. Everybody said, when are you coming back? I'm like, I'm not coming back. So I worked through the first few years of being full-time voiceover. And it was just one of those things. I had my goals in mind and just set my brain to it. And somehow I've arrived here, thankfully gratefully. But the second time I said, I need a change, we had been in Irvine for 12 years. And I said, I'm done. Thank you, Irvine. It's been wonderful. We need to move, Jerry. And it was one of those things where I didn't even -- he was on a business trip and I said, Jerry, I need to go somewhere else. I know I've got a good 10 years left before -- 10, 15 years before if I, if I retire at all and I need to do it in a new place. And so basically I just said, I want to move. But putting that move into place, we literally got in like maybe a week before lockdown to our new house. Pilar: Wow. Anne: So we had to, like, we had to sell the house. I had to stage the house. We bought a new house. The new house wasn't ready. I had -- we had to move someplace in the interim with the cats, with you, sell the furniture, everything, put stuff in storage. And it was so much work, but we got through it, and now we're in a new place, but it was all from a need or a feeling in me that I needed to shift. I need, I couldn't be stagnant. I needed to grow and change. And I followed it, and it was tough, but I'll tell you what. We're so grateful. And I totally agree with you in terms of like, these things are put in place for movement and change to help people grow and flourish, if you take it in that vein. Pilar: That's so powerful, that story, Anne. It's like listening to your insides instead of worrying about what the outside is saying or -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- you know, because you're always going to get pushback. Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: Because there's all kinds of things that, that will, uh, not necessarily bar you, but will make you take stock and think -- Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: -- is this the right decision? Anne: Oh yeah. And I'll tell you if I may interrupt for just one second, I'm so sorry -- Pilar: Yeah, yeah, go for it. Anne: -- but I need to tell you that, 'cause you just brought to my mind was the biggest thing was this second time is now that I was an entrepreneur, right, with my own business, you realize that banks don't want to give you loans or approve mortgages when you are self-employed. And so that was huge. I mean, we had to bend over backward to prove that I had money coming in and that, that was, that was a huge thing. And I have to say that I'm grateful and thankful that my voiceover business flourished as it did so that, that wasn't -- I mean, it became a thing where we were worried up to the very last minute that they were not going to approve the mortgage because I had to show all sorts of records of income. And it just, it's crazy when you work for yourself. But thank gosh, my husband, he is able to prove half of it because he worked for an employer, but for me, they were like, no, you need to prove this, this, and this. And so that became a big point. So BOSSes out there working for yourself, know that these things exist. Pilar: And believing in it, I think that that's really important. What you just described is like, despite the no's being told -- Anne: Yes. Pilar: -- you went ahead anyway. Anne: And did everything I had to do, right -- Pilar: Exactly. Anne: -- to prove and to get through it. So, absolutely. Pilar: Yeah. Um, you know, I think there's something that's so important in this business to recognize is the amount of no's that we get. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: And when I think about the radio -- Anne: So many. Pilar: -- I mean, I got so many no's, and I got so many, like silences, because that's the other thing about this business. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: You don't necessarily get told you don't get the part, or you don't get the gig. You're just, nothing happens. So, you know, that it went to somebody else. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Pilar: And so, and it's, it's about physically and emotionally and being able to say, okay, all right. That's, that's, you know, and just moving on with it -- Anne: And moving on. Pilar: -- instead of dwelling in it. Anne: And again -- Pilar: Right? Anne: -- can I bring another, can I bring another marketing parallel into this? Pilar: Go for it. Love it. Love it. Anne: So not only auditioning and understanding that if you audition, maybe it's not the right time, right, for the person that is casting that audition. Maybe it's just, it wasn't the right fit for the job at that right time. But also when you're marketing and you're sending out those emails, or you're making those cold calls, all the time, there are no's. Right? And, and it's just not the right time. And so keep in mind that even when you're marketing, that is absolutely a huge consideration, that it's not the right time. They're not looking at that time to buy or to purchase, or they don't need a voice at that time. And the same thing applies to your marketing. So I know so many people that get so defeated about their marketing and like, why isn't it working, and how can I get the next gig? And it's one of those, it's a huge timing issue. And I know when I talk to my BOSS Blast clients, that that is a thing. You know, we get so many emails in our inbox every day. And like, I subscribe to old Navy, right? So old Navy three, four, or five times a week is sending me their latest sale. But I don't click on that email until I need something. And so the same thing goes for if you're trying to market your voiceover business, and that could be a whole other episode, Pilar, with that. Pilar: I think it is. I think it is because I have a story, which I'm not going to include -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- but I have a great story about that. And that's, that's really important. Yeah. Anne: So I love, love, love all the parallels that we are making through your story. So thank you, Pilar, for providing that story. So now I'm going to assume that that next move, is that coming back to New York? Pilar: No. It's going to -- Anne: Or going to all -- LA. Pilar: -- Los Angeles, yes. Anne: So we're going to be hitting the next episode with when you now, I guess, leave Miami and make your trek towards LA. So BOSSes, I can't wait for this next episode. Pilar, thank you so much again for this inspiring, motivating story. I'm just so glad that we're doing this. Pilar: I, I get such a kick out of talking with you, Anne. I learn so much with you, so thank you. Anne: Well, I love drawing the parallels, so. Pilar: I love it. I love it. You're good at it. Anne: So I'd like to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect just like Pilar and I are connecting like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys have an amazing week and can't wait to see you next week. See ya. Bye! Pilar: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Bosses, in 2022 we are failing fast + furiously. Who’s in? In this Bonus Modern Mindset Episode, Anne is joined by special guest Erikka J. They discuss blending tech + creative passions, pursuing multiple careers simultaneously, and most importantly, why it is oh so important to fail so that you can succeed! Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the Modern Mindset series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so excited to bring you special guest Erikka J. Erikka is a multi-talented singer, songwriter, and award-winning voice actor. She's voiced for brands such as Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple, IBM, Discover and -- keep going -- Black Lives Matter and many, many more. As a natural born hustler, I love that, she is also a tech girl, just like me, a project and product management professional with 15 years' experience in multiple sectors, including government, e-commerce, software development, and automotive. Erikka J, it is a pleasure to have you, and thank you so much for joining me today. Erikka: Likewise, thank you, Anne, for having me and, uh, hey to the BOSSes out there. Anne: Yeah, I love it. So I went to your website, which by the way is beautifully branded. So guys, BOSSes out there, you want to have a look at something that's really beautifully branded, I love the website. I was drawn to the music tab there. So I want to say that I love your concept of delivering meaningful, honest, and relatable lyrics, which you call jewels, right, to your fans. Erikka: Yes. Anne: I imagine that this also applies to your philosophy in, in your VO being real and meaningful and honest, and I'm sure that that contributes in a multitude of ways to your success. But let's talk -- we'll do, we'll talk about that in a minute -- but let's talk about how did your singing career help prepare you for your careers thereafter in business as well as voiceover? Erikka: Oh man, I got, uh, I almost want to say I got lucky, but I worked for it too. Um, so I, um, you know, went to college, and even though I was singer and doing all of that, and people were, you know, telling me I should pursue that, I went the whole corporate route. But music chased me; it wouldn't let me stay away from it. So I got the business education from getting my MBA and from working in state government, federal government, and now a corporate job in automotive. But in music, I learned how to record myself out of necessity. So I mean, you know, I didn't have the big label behind me, but I had some ideas and I had to record my own songs that I've written. So started on audacity, started on a Scarlet -- Anne: Wow, all right. Erikka: Scarlet bundle, like with that mic, like that's where I started, in the closet. Yeah, recording myself in music, I learned the tech side of it and how to listen and get very detailed with my ear. And I eventually, I made my way over to voiceover and those skills came in really handy. Anne: Wow. Well, I have to say as a young artist back then, that's an ambitious goal, right, to be a singer. Talk to me a little bit about -- I know you said you didn't have a big label, but it's not like you didn't try to pursue a career path that way I would imagine. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I did the indie route. Anne: Okay. Erikka: So I mean, at that time, you know, early 2010s around ish -- Anne: Oh okay, gotcha. Erikka: -- so Internet was around and all the distributions. I could put myself on iTunes and all the platforms. So yeah, I never really did pursue the label route. I wanted to sort of be the captain of my own destiny, you know? Anne: Gotcha. Erikka: Yeah. And I had friends that were engineers, so they kind of helped teach me stuff and get me set up with templates. So, um, I did pursue it on my own, but I didn't pursue the getting signed sort of traditional route. Anne: Um, now is that something that you're still doing, or you're still considering, or trying to pursue all different routes? Erikka: I would say I'm probably like on hiatus. Anne: Gotcha. Erikka: Music broke my heart a few times. I love it, definitely my first love. But boy, when I found voiceover and was able to pull all these different things that I love into one big bucket, like I've really just fell hard. Anne: So what was it that made you go into business? I mean, you have your MBA. So when you're the starving artist, right, everybody says go to college. And that was, that was my mother, go to college and get a real job. But interestingly enough, what made you pursue your master's in business? Erikka: Yeah, so I kind of always say I lived my life in reverse almost, like in my 20's, I was super serious and straight and you know, yeah, singing's great. But I have to go get a real job. Anne: Right, right. Erikka: I went to college and you know, and it worked out well for me, but again, music just kept pulling me back, the creative that, you know, muscle, it just doesn't, it doesn't die. Anne: Oh, I agree. Erikka: It won't let you move away from it. So I just decided to do both -- Anne: Love it. Erikka: -- and it was crazy. It still is crazy. And I preach that all the time. Like I still have a full-time corporate job at this moment in tech and full-time voiceover, full-time I do both. Anne: Girl after my own heart. I tell ya, it's something special. Right? You have the tech gene and the creative gene. And it's so interesting to have both. It sounds like you love both. And you're passionate about both. Erikka: I do, I do. I mean, and how I got to voiceover was I was doing gigs on the weekend with a corporate band. So my kids were young at the time, and I was writing my own music and doing all that, my own shows, and working for the federal government, for Department of Defense at the time. Anne: Wow. Erikka: So seven days a week, I'm working every day, a little kids, single mom too. Anne: Wow. Erikka: So I was away a lot and you know, I've made time for them, but I was trying to find ways to spend more time with them. And somebody had mentioned voiceover and I'm like, what's that? Like, I didn't even know that people get paid for the stuff I hear on TV every day. And then I just, you know, did the Google hustle, man, you know, and figured it out online, and here we are five and a half years later. It's going pretty well. Anne: Wow. And here you are. That's amazing. Let's talk a little bit about tech -- Erikka: Yes. Anne: -- especially about, I guess, agile practices, which I believe you specialize in, correct? Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Anne: So I know that I've done an e-learning module on agile practices. I don't know if I understood them completely, but tell me a little bit about first of all, what are agile practices and what can we learn from them in our voiceover career? How do we relate those? Erikka: Yeah, yeah. So agile is like a mindset. It's an approach to software development is how it was born. And I believe it's actually the 20-year anniversary this year or last year it was. It was in 2001 that I think maybe like 17 different software developers got together. Waterfall was sort of their prevailing software development method, which to shorten it is basically just what I used to do, where you write a requirements document. I would write documents that are 60 pages long. You turn that over to your software engineers. You know, we kind of discuss it, go back and forth, make sure everybody understands, and you could be building something for months and then deliver it. So these guys got together and came up with this manifesto of 12 different elements that really focused on the customer, on delivering value over documentation, on making sure that it was an iterative process. Anne: Sure. Erikka: Because what can happen is if you're developing something, and you take six months to get it out, what I wanted six months ago is no longer a value to me. Anne: Yeah. Well, there's nothing worse than having a piece of software, and there's a bug in it. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: And then you have to wait like forever to get that resolved. Right? I assume that that's part of where this all came from. Erikka: Yeah. Not even a bug. It could mean that they were coding it to spec, but the spec is now changed. Um, you've gotten all the way down the road. Sometimes, you know, these are 18 months projects. Anne: Right, right. Erikka: And you've wasted money, time and value now. So this agile approach, and what I wanted to talk about today is one of the, it's not really one of the values that's in the manifesto, but one of the guiding principles is to fail fast and often. The goal is to be iterative and not let that fear of failure keep you from iterating and trying new things and being creative, and then using that process of failure to inspect and adapt. Go back and look at how you failed, what you could do better next time and look at it as a true learning process and a path to success. Anne: Wow. Well, that's it. We can go home now because that was, that was such a beauty. That was so valuable, what you just said in that short amount of time. I completely agree. I mean, there's so much learning to be had from failing. Erikka: Yeah, absolutely. There's such a stigma and there's such shame with failure, but you can take that failure, and nobody learns from winning, right? Like -- Anne: True. Erikka: -- you learn from, from when you lose. Anne: Isn't that that's so true. And I think that just happens all the time, really, in an industry where we audition to win jobs -- Erikka: Yes, yes. Anne: -- and we are constantly facing rejection or sometimes we hear nothing at all. So we don't know why we failed or how we failed. Erikka: Oh man. Yeah. As creators, as voiceover talent, as entrepreneurs in general, like there's so much wider, and agile was born from software development, but it really can be applied to so many different areas of life, of business, and just learning how to take that failure and be resilient and, you know, exercise your grit. I just saw the Ted Talk on Angela Duckworth. I don't know if you've heard of her, and she referenced the growth mindset, and you know, how grit is really that willingness to fail and to be wrong so that we can learn from it. And man, if we don't face it every day with auditions -- Anne: Right, that's just the first step. Erikka: -- I don't know what is. Anne: And I love how you expanded it out to be not just the performance aspect of our industry, but also just the entrepreneur mindset. I mean, yeah. I can't tell you after so many years of being in this industry and how many times I've failed, and I liked the whole iterative process of fail fast -- Erikka: Yeah. Anne: -- because I've always thought of it as well. I just kind of changed direction. Right? I never in my brain, I don't say I've failed. I say, well, I need to just change direction. Erikka: Exactly. Anne: And so that way I wouldn't have that stigma that you're talking about of shame and like, oh my God, I failed. I always said, well, I don't think of it as failure. I think of it as just changing direction, which actually seems to follow the agile mindset as well. Erikka: Absolutely it does. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. So how have you learned from that in your voiceover career? Because now how long have you been doing voiceover? Erikka: Yeah, voiceover. I started in September of 2016. Anne: Okay, yup. Erikka: So this will be my sixth year coming up. How have I learned? My goodness. So even when I was doing music, when I was singing and doing all of that, I've did approach it as a business. So I've actually had my LLC since 2015. Anne: Okay. Erikka: So I always approach that as investing in myself and looking for an ROI and trying to make the business money that I was making fund the expenses that I had for the business. It wasn't like that for a long time. I was putting in personal money. Anne: Right? Ugh. Erikka: I had business debts and honestly just in the past year, I'm going to be really vulnerable and transparent right now, I paid off $50,000 of business debt. That was a failure. Anne: But that means so much to me that you were vulnerable like that. And you were able to say that because that's going to really help so many BOSSes out there that look, I remember, and my vulnerability is my first year full-time in voiceover, I made like $12,000 for the year. Erikka: Same, same. Anne: Like it was not -- it was just -- people are like, oh my God, I'm making six figures or whatever. No, my first year, and I worked my tush off that first year. Erikka: Yes. Anne: I've known to be a workhorse myself. I feel like we're soul sisters in that area. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: And questioning in the beginning, like, oh my gosh, am I going in the right direction? I remember sobbing one day; everything just came down on me. And I'm like, I don't even know if this is where I should be. Yeah. And I had given up. Now see, for me, I had given up my career in tech. I was teacher tech. So it was kind of the same thing, kind of that technology and creative in the same area. I finally said to my husband, well, let's move to California, and I'm going to quit my cushy corporate educational, secure tech job and just going to do full-time voiceover. And that was just a leap of faith. I mean, thankfully I had put into motion, we had a plan. I mean, I had that financial cushion that allows you to do it, but I did it in 2008, which was the worst year to like -- Erikka: Oh God, yeah, '08. Anne: -- if you're in tech, you know that if you are out of tech for a couple of months, that's it, you're old, you're dead wood. That's like -- Erikka: Yeah, yeah. Anne: You've lost any kind of -- Erikka: You will not get up to speed. Anne: No. I said, oh God, I just need to rest. Give me like three months. I gave it three months, and then nobody would talk to me. It was 2008. And it was like, wow, you cannot stop in tech because otherwise you just, oh, you're not up to speed. And you know, I couldn't even get interviews. And I was like, okay. So I got to make this voiceover thing work and worked my butt off. And I liked that you said it's years. It's not like an overnight, like getting your ROI is just, you have to have, I think the wherewithal and the grit to kind of just survive that and just keep trying things, failing fast, right. And trying something else. Erikka: And that was the failure is that, you know, I, I knew that I was going to need, you know, different classes to take. And you know, a lot of that was music as well. Like, you know, the, the video that you and I were chatting about before, that costs money. Anne: Yes. Beautiful video. Erikka: You know? Thank you. Thank you. Anne: Yeah. BOSSes, just go to Erikka's page. She's got some really awesome videos, and you have a beautiful voice. So. Erikka: Thank you. Thank you. I mean, quality was really important to me. So, you know, I mean, you'll see it before I paid for it. Anne: So I told my husband, come over here and look at, look how beautifully shot this video is, let alone how awesome the whole performance and the storyline. And I feel like when I watched you singing, like I can see so many parallels between singing, performing, and also voiceover. Because again, if you're all about being meaningful and relatable, and I think authentic, I could see that in the video, in your performance. And I'm like, wow, you translate that into a voiceover performance. And bam, like, that's the magic. That's the magic. Erikka: That was for me because, you know, aspect of music that I always loved the most was that I was able to channel my emotions, not just through the words, but like how, the way that I was singing. And I had no clue how helpful that was, that I had already honed that skill, and that, that was a strength of mine to bring that to voiceover gave me a leg up, you know? Anne: Oh my goodness, yeah. Erikka: Oh my goodness. It was great. I mean, not just the failures in music, I wanted to just, 'cause we're talking about failure too, in voiceover, you mentioned that you had left tech and kind of given up and quit on it. And I did just about walk away from voiceover. Same thing. I was, you know, four years in. I think the best, the most I had made was like $25,000 in a year. And I'm like, you know, I can't keep doing this and I have to shout out Mr. Zellman my guy, my man Cliff -- Anne: Oh yeah.   Erikka: Because -- Anne: Who doesn't love Cliff Zellman? Erikka: I love him so much. Any voiceover that somebody got from me after August of 2019 is because of Cliff, because I was going to quit. Anne: Yeah. You want to talk about passion in what somebody does? Cliff is so passionate. Honestly, he's so passionate at what he does and he's so genuine and so authentic, wonderful, wonderful person to work with, if you ever get the chance, highly recommended. Yeah. And I can see him. He's like, he almost could be a motivational coach. Erikka: Right? Anne: Um, you know, because he is that passionate. Now you work, full-time, you say, at your corporate job and you're doing voiceover as well, and you have a family. So what's the fail first kind of -- does that translate into every aspect of your life as well? Erikka: Four letter word yes. Anne: Yup. Erikka: So all of this really kind of kicked up for me when I started working full-time from home with the pandemic. So that's where I was able to, you know, really dive in and give all my other time to voiceover and still be able to maintain both. 'Cause I was home all the time. The failure, there was boy, and I'm still learning about the self-care aspect, but I kind of really put my family on the back burner for awhile. In my relationship with my boyfriend, we had to really work through that. I'm a hard working woman, and he hadn't been with a woman that was as ambitious as I was before. And I kind of dove in probably a little too hard where I had to learn that you have to live life to be able to give good voiceover. Anne: Oh yeah. Right? Erikka: It can't all be the work. Anne: You've got to rebuild that creative -- Erikka: Yeah. Anne: -- yeah, spark I think. And if you want -- Erikka: You've got to have experiences. Anne: Yeah. You're talking to a workaholic, I get it. I totally get it. And you're right. There's always that balance. And I think I need to sit back and continually remind myself of that balance as well, because I'm like, look, I just want to get to this place. I might be retiring in 15 years. And so I don't want to have to worry about how am I going to pay the mortgage or I want to go travel. And so I'm always working towards something, and I think that a modern mindset of fail fast. I love that. You just twisted that for me, fail fast. Give me an example of the fail fast that worked in your favor because rather than well, let's just, I completely give up voiceover. No, let's just change direction. Erikka: I could talk a little bit -- I saw that P-to-Ps was something that you guys recently talked about as well. So my approach and my philosophy, whenever I talk to people about those, is I feel like they are a lead source, just like people go to Google to go look, they go to those sites, and they're essentially search engines. LinkedIn is a search engine. So there are some that maybe work better than others and some that maybe don't work as well. My approach was to track my ROI as I went, if I was to pay for more, a higher level tier. So if I pay for one, and you know, I'm waiting and I'll see if I need to cancel. If I need to read the next year, rather than sort of throwing all your eggs in one basket and saying, I'm just going to do stuff for my agents, trying different avenues as lead generators for work. Anne: Got it. Erikka: And I keep a close eye on that. Anne: And I think it's all about lead generation, isn't it really, to be successful in this voiceover industry? I mean, because the entrepreneurial, like the fear factor is that we don't necessarily know what work is coming in every single day. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: So being able to secure maybe a steady flow of possibilities, right, and us acting on those possibilities, like the auditions or even just having people find us, that is, I think the hardest part about being a voiceover actor and making that a full-time gig is that you don't know where that next paycheck is coming from. You don't know where the next client is coming from, and having a lead generation software, or you consider your P-to-P lead generation software. Erikka: Exactly. Anne: And even your website, like I said, again, I'm going to go back to your website, because I'm worked in tech and I worked on websites back in the day. I would never do it today. I hire people, but knowing a good website when you get to it and establishing know, like, and trust. People hire people they know, like, and trust. Your website is your online personification of your storefront. And that storefront, if presented correctly, can be an immediate, like I immediately said, yes, that girl is who I want to hire. And it was a visual -- I didn't even listen to anything yet. I went to your website and I said, there she is. It's just stunning. It's the attitude, the confidence, the, you know, and now everybody should be rushing over to your website. But it's so true. It's just so well done. I don't know if you had a website before, and for me there's versions of my website that were failure, you know, fail fast and let's switch it up. Let's see what's working. That's another thing that people come in. It is a first impression. And if that first impression is a fail, switch it up, switch it up. Erikka: You're done. Anne: You're done. Switch it up. Switch it up, you're done. Erikka: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Move on to the next. Anne: Yeah. It honestly has such an effect on first impression. Yeah. She looks like someone I could absolutely trust, and she's just got the goods. Like I want to work with her. Erikka: And yeah, another piece of that is it's the fail fast and often. So when you bring up my website, and it's so funny, I appreciate the compliments. I did build that site myself on Squarespace. Anne: Damn. Erikka: Um, and I'm in the process of having it professionally redone because you know, like you said, I just, I'm like, I'm good, you know, the whole back end piece, you know, to make it really fast. That's not my area of genius. So I'm paying people for that, but it still works. Anne: Absolutely. It still works with that first impression. Right? It's just like just bam, that first page. And that made me want to go investigate more. Erikka: Yeah, yeah. And what I've done to kind of figure out what works is playing with the SEO in there, which I know you love to talk about and so do I, because I love passive ways of generating leads. I want to be in the booth. I don't want to go chase clients. Anne: Isn't that the truth? Like it just saves so much time. I'd rather have someone find me first, that whole SEO thing, especially if it's organic, right? That's all fail fast. Erikka: Absolutely. Anne: And keep adjusting and keep evolving. And it's not hard if you're doing organic SEO. And, and I don't know if I would pay people to do SEO other than having somebody maybe writing press releases and you know, doing that kind of thing. That is something again that can really affect your success in the business. And, you know, success begets success. I keep saying that lately. And I think that it just becomes this wonderful ball of energy -- Erikka: Yeah, absolutely. Anne: -- which when it happens, if you do fail, I always think it's failure on a smaller level. Maybe it's not huge, huge fail when you work with fail fast. I think they're tiny failures, and they're always something that you feel that you can overcome. And I think the confidence of that is so much better than, oh my God, I have failed in a huge way. Let's just P-to-P's just don't work. Let's give them up or I can't get any work. Let's give up voiceover, that's a big fail. You don't want the big fails. You want the little fails that you still have the confidence that, you know what, maybe if this doesn't work, I'll just try this next. And that way it keeps the momentum going. Erikka: And that is the exact rationale behind agile is that it's not saying, go ahead and do the big failures. It's saying, if you, if you are more iterative in your approach as to how you're developing or how you're managing your business, or how you're approaching your auditions, then when you have those failures, they're smaller and you can continue them and recover from them faster and find the success. So yeah, you got it, Anne, you know agile. Anne: I love that. Look at that, so now I know agile. Well, how cool is that? So, and then if we apply this to our businesses, and here's where the creative, because I like having the 50-50 brain, right? Because the tech in me says, let's solve a problem. If it's not this it's this, or let's try this. This could be the other solution. And that's where I think that left brain, right brain thing helps because it does help you fail in smaller ways. And sometimes when I work with people who are completely creative or just come from a creative background, it becomes an all or nothing, almost dramatic sort of failure or success. I think that the small fails is where it's helped me in just having a little bit of that tech brain. And that's why I like the entrepreneurship of the industry, because -- so you've got the, kind of the best of both worlds, right? You've always been an entrepreneur, but now you're also working corporate. So there's a dependability factor there for you, right? You go to work every day, you know what to expect. Hopefully you're getting a paycheck every other week or whatever that is. Right? And that gives you the confidence to really take risks in an entrepreneurial endeavor because you've got a little bit of that cushion. Erikka: Exactly. Yep. And that was the goal. And that's what I tell people is there's this stigma of you have to be either/or. You have to either be an entrepreneur or you're not all in if you're still in corporate. And that is absolutely not true. For me, my job is a source of capital. As I am building my business up, I've crossed the, the goal threshold that I've wanted to get to. And now it's a matter of, you know, when is it gonna make sense for me to just focus on the one, but for now it's working. So why not take that money and invest it in your business? If you can manage both, it is okay to have more than one dream. Anne: I completely agree. And that's kind of why, as an entrepreneur, I've divvied up my own business, my entrepreneurial endeavors into multiple segments. It's not just voiceover for me, because again, that is the most unpredictable source of income because sometimes you just don't know, a job won't come in or you won't get the gig. So building up those other revenue streams on the side, whether you're doing it as an entrepreneurship or it's a corporate or a part-time job. I mean, when I went full-time, I did have a part-time job. I was an office assistant, and that gave me the money that helped pay the bills. And so I feel like that is all part of that mindset, that modern mindset of failure that is very similar to agile, where you make the plan to have the finances come in, to give you the confidence, to take the risks in building your entrepreneurial business. And then that will take off like a snowball. Erikka: There are four like core principles of agile. And one of them is responding to change over following a plan. It's not saying that following a plan is not important or that it's not valuable, but it's if you have one of the two you're going to prioritize responding to change. And that is exactly what you were talking about. I know people where they've, you know, they were full-time. I don't really love the full-time voiceover thing because I know other people that do full-time jobs and are full-time voiceover, like six figures. So, but I know people that have decided to go back and get a job because they wanted to pay off debt or they wanted to have more capital to invest in their business. There's nothing wrong with that. You can change along with the conditions and then alter your plan to fit what's happening right now. Anne: Yeah. I love that. I love that. And also, if you are just full-time voiceover, things are evolving. Trends are changing, um, technology, you and I know, technology is coming, and it is going to change the industry just as it changes all aspects of every industry, technology. And I, I love the fact that I have a technology background. I feel like you enjoy your corporate job just as much as you enjoy voiceover. Erikka: I do. Anne: Yeah. Okay. Erikka: I work with such smart people and I always tell them, like, you guys are so much smarter than me. And I just learn from them every day. Anne: It is inspiring. Erikka: It's inspiring. Anne: It's inspiring. I'll tell you. I've had some podcast guests on here that are brilliant, and it exhilarates me. And it gives me confidence and motivation to just go further and delve deeper into my own entrepreneurialship and my voiceover career. So it's, it's really awesome. I love that we have this whole modern mindset failure based on technology. What a really refreshing conversation. Erikka: Thank you. Likewise. I've really enjoyed this, Anne. Anne: Yes. Oh gosh, BOSSes. Go check out Erikka's website. Thank you so much, Erikka, for being with us today. It's really been a pleasure. Erikka: Thank you, Anne, for having me. Thank you to all the BOSSes. You guys, keep rocking on. Anne: Yeah, all right. I'm going to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can nerd out with your colleagues and friends and also countless wonderful things. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. Erikka: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Do you consult your inner child when making career decisions? Maybe you should! Anne & Pilar kick off the Boss Voces series at the beginning. They dive into Pilar’s journey from young girl singing + mimicking to finance assistant to Colombian telenovela star… More at https://www.voboss.com/pilars-journey-part-1 Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza. And today I am honored to bring you special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Pilar is a bilingual voice actor, telenova star, and radio personality. Born and raised in New York city. She broken this show business with roles from Ugly Betty, Poor Pablo, Eternally Manuela, and El Cartel, filmed in Colombia and Miami. She recorded and produced for WLRN Miami South Florida, and now lives in LA where she records voiceover for television, radio, and films, and last, but certainly not least, she has booth kitties, which are so very important. Yay! Pilar, it's a pleasure having you here today. Thank you so much for joining me. Pilar: I am so glad to be here, Anne. This is a real treat. Thank you. Anne: So, first of all, the booth kitty, I have to know, booth kitties, booth kitty? Pilar: Booth kitty. Anne: Booth kitty. Pilar: Booth kitty. Yes. His name is Paco, Anne: Paco. Pilar: Well, his full name is Paco Del Barrio. Anne: Oh. Pilar: Paco Del Barrio, yes. Anne: Oh, Paco. Now, is Paco in the studio with you right now? Pilar: No, he's not. I know he's outside, and he's sitting on top of the desk where I edit looking like, like, how dare you close that door? Anne: How dare you not pay attention to me? Pilar: Exactly. I need a window for the door. Anne: As you know, we now both have booth kitties and that is a major plus for, I think, productivity in the booth to have booth kitties. They really help you in your daily -- Pilar: Absolutely. Anne: -- your daily booth recordings. Pilar: Yeah, they're very, yes, they're very, they're very observant, and they're very, how can I say this? Anne: They direct well. Pilar: They teach you, they teach you a lot about you as a voice actor. Anne: I agree. Pilar: We'll get into that. Anne: I agree. I think that could be an episode actually, how our pets help us learn about ourselves. For sure. For sure. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: So you're not even like a triple threat. You're like a quadruple, like, you're like multiple, multiple threats, TV, radio, voiceover. Tell us about how you started in the business? Because I think you've got a wonderful story to tell, and we can all learn a lot about how you evolved into your voiceover career. Pilar: Okay. So how much time do you get? Anne: Well, this first episode is about only 25 minutes. So. Pilar: Okay, I'll be quick. Now, I was born and bred in New York. Both my parents are from Colombia, a little town called Ibagué. And, um, I spoke Spanish until I was five. When I went to grade school, high school, I was in all the plays. I played the angel. I, you know, I did all kinds of things, singing groups. I was in the choir. I was in -- Anne: Me too. Pilar: Yeah. Right. You know, you do it all. Anne: Choir thing and you know, that creative. stuff. Pilar: Exactly. Exactly. I went to a girls school, and so we were in this choir, and I was just in this thing called Triple Trio. And we would go to, we would go to boys schools. We would go to boarding schools and sing there and have crushes on all the boys. Anne: Of course. Pilar: So in college I majored in theater and kept studying voice and did musical theater and just all kinds of things. Anne: But not necessarily voiceover, right? You're thinking -- Pilar: No, no, it was all, it was all musical theater or -- Anne: Musical theater. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: Because you sing too. That was the other threat. 'Cause I actually happened upon one of your social media posts the other day. And you were singing. So. Pilar: Yes, I'm really into like the -- so that's the thing. I was kind of born and raised on singing a capella because I would sing with my sister. We had a little duet going, and she would play with the guitar. Sometimes we would play the guitar and sometimes we would just do two voices. So there's this great app called acapella. And I loved just dubbed myself over and over again into like four part harmony. It's so much fun. So in college, I kept singing. I kept with these groups, and I majored in theater, came back to New York. And of course it's a different story now, you know, once you're looking for a job, and I thought, well, okay, I'll, I'll go the corporate route. And I worked for Harper's Bazaar -- Anne: Oh wow. Pilar: for -- yeah. For two and a half years. And I, I totally lived the Devil Wears Prada life. Anne: I was gonna say! Pilar: Oh yeah, all that stuff is true. Anne: In New York too. Pilar: In New York. So I, I was an assistant to an editor, and it was like, oh, what an experience that was. Anne: I can imagine. Pilar: Yes. Yeah. That that's a whole other, that's a whole other story. Then I went to, I moved to Nine West and I started working to helping in design shoes. And all throughout this time, I was taking acting classes because I thought, let me just keep that muscle going. Even though it just, it seemed so far away at the time. And I got laid off. I was the last hired, first fired. There was a whole financial shakeup, and I thought, okay, this is the time to start working on my acting. So I got my headshot and resume together, and I started going out on auditions. And in the meantime I got married. Anne: That's a lot happening. Seems like a lot happening -- Pilar: Yes. And I cleared my throat. Anne: -- short period of time. Pilar: Yes, absolutely. And I cleared my throat because that was a whole experience in itself. So I did theater. I actually, I did "A Chorus Line," and I was probably the only person -- I played Diana Morales, who was the Hispanic character. And she was the one who said, "and I felt nothing, simply nothing." It's such a great song. I love that song. Anne: Lovely. Pilar: I was the only one who could not do a double pirouette, but I got away with it. That's like a requirement for "A Chorus Line," but I could not do a double pirouette to save my life. And if you try doing it, you will fall over. I can tell you right now because I can't, I just, every time I've tried it, I just fall over. I think I did it once in my life, but that's it. So I did a couple of films. I did student films, and I did extra work on "One Life to Live" and "All My Children," and I think there was one called "Passions." Anne: Wow. Pilar: And so that I had so much fun because of course I used to watch those shows, and I used to watch "General Hospital" actually in college. Anne: Oh, of course. Who didn't? Pilar: Remember -- yeah, like, what was it the, uh, the, yeah, there were these scenes, which we can't even say on the air. Anne: I just read something about Luke, that they finally wrote him off. Pilar: Yes, yes, yes! The Luke and Laura scene. Do you remember the Luke and Laura scene? Anne: Yes. Of course, of course. Pilar: Everybody talked about that. Anne: There has to be a moment in time. Like that is, that is ingrained into like the moment in time, uh, television history. And is this what brought you in -- the telenova star? So is that leading us to that place or? Pilar: Yes, yes. Anne: Okay. Pilar: Absolutely. It is. I do have a point and I will -- Anne: No, no, I totally get it. Pilar: So I started seeing in New York that, you know, everybody was hustling, like I was, and I was doing extra work on like a film with Michael J. Fox. And I got to touch Arnold Schwarzenegger's jacket, but I was always, you know, background extra. And I thought, wouldn't it be great to work in a job that is kind of a 9 to 5? And I realized television is that. So I had that dream, and that's why I did the extra work, because I, you know, I wanted to see what was going on in those soap operas. So I separated, and I thought, okay, I'm done. I'm going to go to take a little vacation and go to where my extended family lives, in Colombia, in Ibagué. And I go, and I stay with my cousin, and the third night I'm there, we decide to go to a fortune teller, and fortune tellers are big in Colombia. And I've, I just, I love them. Like they're just so much fun. So I go to this fortune teller, and she reads the way I smoke a cigarette of all things. So she's looking at my ashes as I'm smoking a cigarette, she gives me a cigarette, I start smoking it. And she says to me, pack your bags, get ready because you're going to be really famous. Anne: Ooh. Pilar: And I was like, what? Anne: Who doesn't like to hear that? Pilar: I just, I, but I was so, you know, I was so like, you know, I was so -- I was depressed, and I was going through the whole divorce proceedings. I had been working for Morgan Stanley as an assistant. And, you know, that was just the, the world of finance. I didn't even understand -- Anne: Oh, from fashion to finance. Pilar: Yes, exactly. And then she says this to me, and I'm like, oh, maybe I'm going to be a shoe designer. Maybe I'm going to be the next, you know, Manolo Blahnik. And I was like, I can't, I couldn't imagine that one at all. So my cousin and I, we left and we just laughed it off. So I, I, so I stayed a couple of months, a couple of extra months, and I thought, well, maybe I could live in Colombia. So I go back to New York after three months, and I'm, I get my reel together. And I met a party at my parents' house, and there's this really good friend of my mother's. And she says to me, have you read the book, The Celestine Prophecy? It's by James Redfield. And I was like, no. So I read it. And it was a game changer for me. That's all I can say. It, it just completely changed my perspective. And I started thinking, well, maybe I could do this. Maybe I could work in television. And I had a very good friend of mine who was my vocal coach. And he kind of turned into my mentor, and he started telling me, he said, you know what? I want you to start visualizing what it would be like to stand in front of the camera. I want you to see what it would feel like, what the lights would feel like on you, what it would sound like, the people walking around you, how it would taste if like you were drinking something on set, what it would smell like, and what you would hear and what you, you know, all the five senses and really do like a little meditation about it. And I wasn't into meditation back then at all. But The Celestine Prophecy talks about that a little bit, a lot, actually. So I have my reel, I speak to a couple of networks. I write letters and there are two that are interested, and one of them says, okay, great. We are interested. We want to see you. So I packed my bags, and I pay for my ticket, and I go down to Colombia. Anne: So when you say you wrote the networks, okay. So that's a very broad description. So what specifically? 'Cause that's like, you're marketing yourself. I mean, you've been marketing yourself I feel since you were out of the womb. Right? So in reality, you're sending letters and what are you saying in those letters? Hey, I'd like to meet you? I have acting experience? Pilar: Yes. Anne: I'd like to meet you? Pilar: Exactly. Exactly. Actually you just said, I didn't even realize that, you just turned the button on for me. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: So I was constantly doing that without even realizing. Anne: Without knowing. Pilar: Yeah, because what I had was, it was just a letter with my real back then. It was VHS. Okay? Anne: Yup. Pilar: So I'm really dating myself, you know, saying I have this experience, I have this training, and I'd really like to do TV. And one of the things I learned a long time ago was you can talk about your strengths. There's no need to lie, but you don't have to say, I don't know how to do this. Anne: Sure. Pilar: You can say, I'm very eager to learn. I'm very eager to get into the business because I realized as I was going down there that yes, I had worked in television as an extra. I had worked in film by then. And so I understood how the camera worked. 'Cause it was -- we worked on an entire summer, over a period of weekends on a feature film. So I knew how it worked, but television is very different from film because it's like, boom, boom, boom, here's this scene, set it up, do the scene. And then you've got a whole bunch of other things to do. So it's a lot busier than film. So I didn't, you know, long shots, you know, close-ups, I was still very much of a newbie. So I basically just concentrated on what my skills were. And these two people, they kind of said, yes, you know, one of them said, there's a possible role for you. And the other one was like, okay, well we'll meet you when you come down here. 'Cause I realized I had to go down there. Like they weren't going to sit there and say -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- oh yeah, we'll hire you. So that's why I, I made the decision. I packed my bags, and I go. So I get to Colombia and I'm staying with a friend in Bogotá now. 'Cause now I'm staying in the capital. Before I had been staying in Ibagué where my family is from, and I call up the producer and uh, I make an appointment and I get there and I'm like, I'm, I'm really excited. And I'm like, okay, this is it. This is the start of something big. And I get there and she said, that show has been scrapped. And she points to her, this shelf and all the episodes are there. And she's like, that's been scrapped. They're writing a new show. You're going to have to audition for it. And there's nothing, you know, I don't, I don't have anything for you. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: So I'm like, oh my God. So what do I do? I start envisioning what my life is going to be like. So I start making like a little list. Okay. I need an apartment. I need a job. That's my most important thing. I need an apartment and I need a car. So the first thing I would do is that I would call her on a weekly basis, this producer, and I would say, hi, how are you? How's it going? And she knew immediately why I was calling. She like, I don't have anything for you. So I was like, okay, great. That's done. Then I started going out and looking at apartments in Bogotá of where I wanted to live. I mapped out, I walked around a lot. I, you know, I was, this was basically, I was friends were taking mirrors, going in taxis or I was walking, and I found an area that I wanted to live in. And so everybody posted their little -- they did newspapers, but they, you know, they would post it up on the window, and I would look and I would take a look, and I finally found one and I was like, oh my gosh, this is really great. Did the same thing with cars. I went to the car dealerships. I looked at all these cars, and I found the car that I wanted, and I keep calling this woman. And so once a week, and then one day she called me. Anne: Here's the thing. You must've had a good relationship with her if you actually spoke to her, right? Pilar: Yes, yes. Anne: Usually producers, if they're very busy, that somebody else is either taking their calls for them or screening their calls. So if you were actually able to talk to her, you must have had a great relationship, which I think that's a key factor. Pilar: We developed it. It wasn't something that just started out that way. I mean, I always went through her secretary first. Yeah. So it wasn't like -- this was something that developed on a regular basis, but I wasn't like stalking her -- Anne: Right. Pilar: -- or being obnoxious about it. Anne: Right, right, right. Pilar: I was just saying, hey, I just wanted to see. And because I was, you know, this was the lead -- Anne: Keeping top of mind. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: See how I'm -- we're transforming all of this into the current day marketing. Pilar: I love it. I love it. This is awesome. Anne: This is also staying top of mind with the producer. There you go. Pilar: Exactly. Top of mind. So she calls me and she says, I have something for you. And I'm like, oh my God, this is it. This is it. I get to the studio. It turns out it's one episode of a children's show. Anne: Okay. Pilar: And I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't live on this. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: What are you going to do? And I talked to the director, that director, and I kind of, we just started talking, and you know, she knew who I was and she said, oh no, no, no, no, no. You're still being considered for this new show. Don't worry about it because I actually -- just going back a little bit -- I had auditioned for the new show. So, so, okay. So she called me up and she said, I want you to audition for the show. I auditioned for the show. And then she calls me. She said, I have this for you. And it was a children's show. So I was like, oh no, what am I going to do? And she said, no, no, no, no. You're still -- the director for the children's show said, no, you're still being considered. Because this was much smaller than what it is today. You know, in the very first time I went and I auditioned, it was very different from the way I auditioned in New York. So, you know, in New York you get given sides and now you memorize it, but you, you're allowed to have it in your hand. And back there, you, you know, you definitely had to memorize the whole thing. And I was panicked and this guy helped me and it was great. A couple of other weeks go by. And then they call me in for a second audition and that's with the director. He was very stern. And I was really nervous. A couple of weeks later, she called me, and she said, you got the job. So all this work that I had been doing, I, you know, I'm shortening it. I had been looking for the apartment. I'd been -- Anne: You'd been having a vision and meditating -- Pilar: Exactly. Anne: And manifesting. Pilar: Exactly. So once I had all that ready to go, when the call came, and this is over a period of three months that this happened, I was like, okay, great. Now it's time. I can get the car, and I can get the apartment. I can rent the apartment out because now I, now I have somewhere to go because I have a job. Anne: Sure. Pilar: And so actually it was really funny. The head of the network called me, and I, I -- it's kind of amazing that I think about this now -- he called me and he said, I, I, I have to tell you that -- and he kind of called me apologetically. And he said, you're going to be really -- this character, you're gonna be really ugly, and you're going to be really nasty. Anne: All right. Pilar: So I was like, please, you know bring it on. Right? So we start filming, and it's a whole new experience. So I have to start from the beginning again, and I'm learning camera angles, and I'm learning how the business works. And the show comes out and literally, Anne, overnight -- the show comes out like let's say on a Thursday. And the last show that what they did is that they dovetailed the old show, which was one of the most well-known shows in the history of Colombian television. It was called "Café -- Café con Aroma de Mujer." they're redoing it now. And so then ours came in. So we had that huge audience, which had seen the show, and everyone had been glued to the television. And then they saw our show. Anne: Right. Pilar: And I was the first one who spoke on the show. It was really cool. Anne: And you were an ugly, horrible personality, right? Pilar: Exactly. I was just, I snarled, I was a snarler. And so it's kind of like a good luck thing. It's kind of like when somebody says that's a kind of a good luck thing in a film when somebody says the name of the film in a film, it's good luck. And in television, in Colombia, it's like the first person who speaks, that's a good little sign. It's like a good luck charm. So, so I was the first person who spoke, and then literally the next day, I was being recognized -- Anne: Wow, that's great. Pilar: -- on the street. Anne: That's fantastic. Pilar: It was the weirdest thing. And so I was like, oh my gosh, what that lady said was true, that fortune teller. Anne: Right? Pilar: A year before practically it came out. Yeah. It was over a year that she had said that. And I thought, this is so interesting. So basically I manifested my way into this job. Anne: Well, I love that. I think there's a lot to be said. I mean, I, it's a new year, you know, and, and I talk all about how being grateful and then really writing down and thinking and manifesting and about what your goals are. I really believe that it comes true. You actually incorporate the steps to make it true. And interestingly enough, notice how I kept noticing all the marketing things that you were doing, which you weren't even realizing at the time. You were developing a relationship. Right? You were keeping top of mind. You were setting goals in place so that you could achieve them to get where you needed to be. So, congratulations. I mean, that's, that's a great story. Pilar: Anne, where were you, where were you in my life? I wish I could have called you out, like brought you back from the future in. My life would be like, you know, but yeah, exactly. So I started working, and I basically did this over and over and over again -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- because in Colombia, telenovelas only last a year. Anne: Oh, that's what I was just going to ask. How long did the show go on, a year? Pilar: Yep. So yeah, because it was actually a little bit more. We do, we did a lot of episodes. Anne: Is it a daily? Like a -- Pilar: Yeah, yeah. Anne: Okay. Daily for a year? Pilar: So it's a daily, but it's not because it's actually prime time. 'Cause it always came out in prompt time. So they're, they're not exactly soap operas. They're, they're like prime time soap, operas. Let's put it that way. That's what they call them. And really they're more like series. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: Because they're not, they have a beginning, middle, and an end. Anne: Got it. Pilar: They don't last for 20 years like they do here -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- or 30 years. So, you know, there's a story. So, you know, it's like a poor girl meets rich guy. Then he does something to her, and then she makes it on her own. And then she's great. And then they live happily ever after, or there's a tragedy, you know, and so, you know, all kinds of different stories. And I got to play all kinds of different characters. I became known as the bad girl because I was one of many bad girls on that first show with, "Eternamente Manuela," and then I became this super duper evil person. And it's so funny because on Instagram -- Anne: On that show or on other shows? Pilar: No, on that show. Anne: Okay. Pilar: That's what really established me as the resident bad girl. They showed "Eternamente Manuela" after many years. And there're all these people on Instagram who were like, oh my gosh, that was you. You were such a bad girl. And they're constantly giving me snippets and stuff that I didn't see. It's so funny. 'Cause like when you're working, you don't have time to watch your own show. You just don't. That's one of the things that -- so I never saw the show, that the entire show. Anne: You have archives that you can post, or is it mostly your fans that are posting -- Pilar: It's a little bit of both. I have some that I post, but most of the time, they show me things, and I'm like, oh my gosh. And I remember filming it, but I don't remember, you know? So it's really fun. It's really great to like kind of like walk down memory lane. I was doing that a lot this past year. Anne: Yeah. That would make sense that you would be, if it's like a daily thing, and you're in and you're just working all the time, it would make sense that you don't always get to watch. It's like, interestingly enough, the VO BOSS podcast only has weekly episodes, but I don't always get a chance to listen to them after we produce them. So every once in a while, when I get a free moment in my car, I'll listen, and I'll be like, oh, okay. And it brings the memories back. Well, that's a pretty decent episode. Pilar: Yeah, exactly. And then you can look back and go, oh yeah. Right. That's interesting. Oh goodness. Anne: When we're in the middle of the manifestation, we're in the middle of the execution, right, you just have to give it up to faith that we're doing a good job and that our listeners and fans are drinking it all in and liking it. And if it were anything, otherwise they would let us know. So. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: Yep. Pilar: Exactly. Barrel along. Anne: All right. So you are a star, a telanova star. And are you doing any other, are you doing any other shows at this point, other than your daily series? Pilar: Well, I did the first show, then I go and I do a second show. And then my second show, I'm playing a gringa. So "hablo así, hablo muy trabada así, con un acento así." And I just, I had a ball. I dyed my hair blonde. I was a blonde. Anne: Wow. Pilar: I was a blonde, Anne. Anne: Wow! Pilar: Oh my gosh. Blondes do have more fun. I'm here to tell you blondes do have more fun. I had so much fun doing that show, and I did so much improvisation on that show. It was amazing. 'Cause I had the latitude. I would sing because I played this housewife who's being cuckolded by her husband who fell -- who falls in love with the lead. So I sit there and I sing away, and I start singing away in English. And it was so much fun to improv on that show because I could do it. And they would let me, 'cause I was playing an American who spoke Spanish. At the same time -- that was a nightly show -- at the same time, I was doing a series, which was an hour weekly. I got a wig. I got a wig for the show. And so I was this very -- the other woman, she had -- American with an accent. She had blue nail polish. She was, she was really cool. She was really modern, wore these little mini skirts. The other series, she was a recovering alcoholic. So she was very prim and proper lawyer. She had a little sort of Lulu Brooks brown haired bangs. And there were people who did not know that I was in both shows, and that was so much fun to do. So then I added that to the roster at the same time. Anne: So you're doing all TV at this point. Pilar: All TV, but here's the thing. I'm doing a lot of interviews. Anne: Makes sense. Pilar: The interviews, I love doing live interviews, but the way -- when I would have the most fun was when I was doing live interviews were when I was doing radio. I had so much fun doing radio interviews. So I always asked my agent -- like I really liked doing them because there was just something so much fun about the spoken word. So I, I keep doing these shows, and I, I had a band going where we would do these jazz nights every Friday night at this place. And I added theater. And at one point I was doing two shows and a musical. It was a Colombian musical. And so I was doing everything at once. And then at some point along the lines, I did an animated show. So they asked me to do an animated show. And so that, I got to do like a whole, that was a whole different world for me. And that's when I really kind of -- Anne: Started voiceover maybe. Pilar: Yes, that's when I started voiceover. Thank you. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: And um -- Anne: Sounds like voiceover to me. Pilar: And it, it was so much fun though. 'Cause it was different voices and I got to really play around with it. And since they didn't really know what they wanted, I got to do the voices. I got to give them voices. Anne: So let me ask you a question. Now you're doing an animated show, and you're doing voices. Had you in your acting, your previous acting experience or had you had opportunities to do voices or were you training so that you could create different voices for different characters for acting? Pilar: None whatsoever. Anne: Okay. So these were -- Pilar: No, no. Anne: -- just things that you just brought out to life and -- Pilar: They just asked me to do it. So I did. So they would say, well, let's try this. She's a little bit younger. So I would, I would do a younger voice. And so let's try this person 'cause they're this loud, obnoxious teacher. So I would do this loud, obnoxious teacher. Anne: Had you played around with voices -- Pilar: No. Anne: -- when you were young? Pilar: That's not true. My mother would say absolutely because I used to be -- I was a great mimicker from the time I was a kid. Anne: Got it, got it. Pilar: I had a very good friend of mine's mother was German. So I would speak with the German accent and you know, I hear nothign, I see nothing. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: I would -- I was a great mimic when I was a kid. Anne: You know what's so interesting. I just want to break in a little bit. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: Because I find that where we are in life today, a lot of people that, that kind of tend to follow their heart, follow their dreams end up doing a lot of the same things that they do when they're children. So if you're mimicking, right, when you're a child, like I taught my dolls and I was this teacher for 20 years in front of the classroom. And I do e-learning today. So it's just so interesting that things that I loved when I was a kid, I just brought right through to my, up to my adulthood and to what I bring to my work. So, you mimicking and probably you acted. Did you -- I put on little plays too. Pilar: I can so see you doing that, Anne. I don't know why. I can see you as like a little mini Anne with, with her little glasses -- Anne: As a mini Anne. Pilar: -- just kind of, sort of like a little, like a little chorus and kind of like conducting your dolls. Right? Anne: Yeah. I did. I loved it. I loved it. And I brought it right up. I still do that today. It's so interesting. I think if everybody looks back to their childhood, if they're following their heart or, you know, I always say following my gut. I do both. I do it in my business and in my personal life, I follow my gut, and I really believe that we bring those things from our childhood, and it brings me a lot of joy. I'm pretty sure it brings you joy too. Pilar: I agree. That's so interesting that you bring that up. I really, and truly -- I hadn't, I kind of knew that on an intellectual level, but if I, if I really feel it in my gut, that is absolutely where I get joy -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- was from when I was a kid, and I would do that and I would make other people laugh. I would make my mother laugh all the time, you know? Anne: Yeah. Pilar: Wow. Anne: So then yeah, so now you've transitioned, or not necessarily transitioned, but you've added to your repertoire some animation and voiceover. Pilar: Yes. Anne: Wow. Pilar: Yes. Anne: Without even knowing it. Pilar: It was just, it was, it was there. The opportunity was there, because I lived in a -- Bogotá is a place where everything is together. That's not really the case anymore, but it used to be that Los Angeles where it was where you did film and television, New York was where you did more theater. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: And theater, yes. Theater, was in the 50's, there was more television. And then I don't know why or, or what I mean, and I don't know the history of this, but it just became more of a theater town, and you know, then, you know, slowly but surely, they started doing the studios in Queens, and then more film and television came, and now there's a whole bunch more voiceover. And there always was that, but I feel like LA was the big place for all that stuff. And so Bogotá kind of did -- had everything. So I had a lot more opportunity -- Anne: Interesting. Pilar: -- to, to kind of -- Anne: Broaden. Pilar: Yeah, yeah. Broaden my horizons that way. So I basically just went from show to show to show. I never really stopped. There was one show that I did. It was the last show that I got to play a bolero and ranchera singer. I was hired on the basis of, I actually did a, uh -- back in, I was on a, this thing called Restaurant Row in New York, Cabaret Row. It's called, Don't Tell Mama. And I did this show called, um, I can't remember what it was. It was, it was a revue. And I played this character called Nora the Dominatrix. There was this one song that I had to sing. And it was "you ache for the touch of my lips dear, but much more for the touch of my whips, dear. I can raise welts. Like nobody else, as we dance to the domination tango." Anne: Love it. Pilar: So it was, it was so hysterical. And I was, I was all decked out in this whole dominatrix costume. And that was a whole, I actually, to get the costume, when I lived in New York, I went to Patricia Field, which back then, which was on 8th Street. And I walked in and I had to look for like, like I was looking for, I didn't know what I was really looking for. And this one, beautiful, beautiful, tall transvestite comes and says, can I help you, dear? And she had this long blonde hair. And so I'm like, I have no idea what I'm looking for, 'cause I don't know what a dominatrix looks like. I'm supposed to dress like a dominatrix. So there's this woman and she's kind of mousy. She's got a long raincoat on, and she's looking around and the salesperson's helping me. And then she comes up to me and she says, what are you looking for? And I said, well, I don't really know what a dominatrix looks like. She said, I'm a dominatrix. And I look at her and I'm like, oh, and I'm like, do you mind if I get my pen and paper out? She starts telling me what a dominatrix does. She gave me all this information. So I get the outfit and, you know, dog collar, little short shorts, you know, the whole thing, the fishnet stock and a whip. Anne: Yup, yup. Pilar: So for the audition that I did for the, back to what we're talking about, for this show, I wore that whole costume, and they were like, you got the job. Anne: Yep. Pilar: So -- Anne: You walked in, you got it. Pilar: Exactly. And I'm wearing like a little, a little blonde wig. So I had to sing when it was my turn to sing and I don't know why this is, but it was, it was really kind of a unique situation. It was my responsibility. So I would hire these guys, which of course the network paid for. But I, I would hire these -- a mariachi band, and they would come to the studio, and we would sing this song or wherever. And then I would learn the song for that week. And so it was like a little performance. So it was like, I was doing like a little play within the show, and it was such a great experience because I didn't have much time. So I had to -- it was like learning copy. Anne: Sure. Pilar: It's like, I had to, I had to learn the song quickly and have it as if I -- Anne: And deliver. Pilar: And deliver. So it was like, it was all of what I'm describing was just great practice for what I do today. Anne: So now do you come back to New York after a certain amount of time? Or how long are you down in Colombia? Pilar: Nine years. Anne: Okay. Pilar: I'm in, I'm in Colombia for nine years. And so I do all these different things, and my father passed away in '99, and that's when I realized kind of wanted to be near my mother and my sister. But I'm thinking, I don't know if I want to go back to New York. I'd like to try something different. And I thought, well, and I'd always been in love with Miami, because it was so beautiful -- Anne: Yup. Pilar: -- and just like, Ugh. So I wanted to go to LA, but I was too scared. I was like, it's just too big. It's just, there's just too much. I thought, let me try Miami. It's another market. Let me see what it's like. Anne: All right. Pilar: So I get to Miami, I have cousins there and I, I live with them, and I'm like, well, you know, I've been a telenovella actress for the past nine years. I've got all this body of work. I'm set, and I get there, and I don't get one job for a year. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm starting again. Anne: And here starts your life in Miami. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: And actually this is a good segue for part two. Part two. So yeah. So we're going to be continuing the story, which is a very interesting story, because I can draw so many parallels to see how you've evolved, how you've grown, and it really draws so many parallels to the voiceover industry and how you can grow as an artist anywhere really, whether you're doing voiceover acting, in television, theater on the stage; it really is such a wonderful, I guess, reveal, Pilar, of your career and how we can, we can learn from that. So I'd like to give a great, big shout out right now to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like a BOSS. You can find out more at ipdtl.com. Pilar, I cannot wait for our next episode to continue the conversation. So thank you so much for being with me today. And we will come back for part two in the next episode. Take care, BOSSes. Bye! Pilar: Thank you, Anne. This was a pleasure. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Picture this: a boot camp that teaches essential marketing skills + lands you a job in 6 months. Unheard of…until now. Anne is joined by special guest Mehak Vohra for a bonus Modern Mindset episode. They cover education reform, the trials and triumphs of entrepreneurship, dropping out of school, and running for mayor…     Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza. And today I'm thrilled to welcome special guest Mehak Vohra, CEO and founder of SkillBank to the show. Mehak started her career as a computer science student at Purdue University and after her sophomore year dropped out at the ripe old age of 19 and moved to San Francisco. Her goal was to build the most scalable marketing agency in the world. And I think she's done an amazing job so far. She ran Jamocha Media for four years, and at her peak, she was generating one to 2 million views per month on LinkedIn. That's some goals for us BOSSes out here. For herself and her clients, she has probably more than 30,000 followers by now, because the last time I checked your bio was a few months ago, on TikTok. She's the youngest person to ever run for mayor in San Francisco's history. Mehak, thank you so much for joining me today. Mehak: Thank you so much for having me. Anne: I'm so excited because as I've been trying to get to interview you, because I'm so impressed with what you have done in such a short amount of time in your short career. And I noticed in your bio, you made a point to mention that you had dropped out of college after your sophomore year. And I can only imagine that you must've had a pretty good reason for doing that, and that you were maybe not getting what you needed at the time or realize that there were bigger and better opportunities outside of college for you. So would you mind speaking to us about that? Mehak: Yeah, for sure. So, you know, I grew up in a family where it was super important to go to college. My parents both went through multiple years of schooling. So for me to turn around and be like, hey guys, I don't think that college is the right spot for me, I had to really sit back and think about like what what's really important to me and where -- what's the direction that I want to go into. And from what I've seen, especially within the marketing world and the startup world, uh, it's not that important to have a degree anymore. People want to see that you're, you're experienced, you're putting yourself out there, you're trying new things, and that's how you're supposed to build your resume today. And I just realized that I wasn't doing that in college. So I was able to make that point to my parents and just say that, hey, I actually think I'm going to learn a lot more moving out to San Francisco, doing things on my own, putting myself out there than I am if I sat in the classroom. So it was, it was a hard thing to, to show them. But at the end of the day it was, it was the right move for me because I'm just not a person who learns well listening to someone talk at me for a few hours. Anne: Very interesting. You know, and as we have discussed before, I have a long, a long career in, and I actually worked for a magnet school, which yeah, actually did a hands-on, project-based curriculum, which worked really well for the students who were just really motivated in wanting to go do things and, and run the world, kind of, kind of thing. So it worked really well. So I understand that mentality a lot. And I do believe that there needs to be some changes in our educational system to serve the students better. And I feel like you have probably encapsulated that with SkillBank, and prior to that with your other media companies. So talk to us a little bit about your Jamocha Media company first, and then I'd love to hear about SkillBank. Mehak: Yeah. So Jamocha Media started off as a vehicle for me to learn on other people's dime. So if I wanted to build websites or if I wanted to create content, or I was trying to pick up a social media client, whatever it might be, I just put them all under Jamocha Media as a client. And over the span of four years, we slowly were able to start to scale things up, going from making websites for people to running the social media accounts, to building people a presence on LinkedIn. And after about three or four years of working on Jamocha, we had basically figured out a formula around how to get people a viewership on LinkedIn. So we were, like you said, we were pulling in about anywhere from like 2 to 3 million views a month in the platform. And it was, it was really interesting to see how things grow online and how like, once you figure out that formula and that way to get things to work, you can blow anyone up and help anyone build a brand and a presence online. So that's really what we focused on at Jamocha. Towards the end of my time working on it, it was how do we, how do we at scale help a lot of people build their personal brands online? It was just a way for me in the beginning to experiment and just to try out different things. And slowly we just niched down into LinkedIn. Anne: Well, you know, I think it really says something too. I know that when I was an adjunct professor, I was teaching social media at a college, and it was really a difficult thing to do because I had to keep creating new curriculum in order to stay current. And that was something that was so difficult to get through the paperwork, the process, the revisions, and, and even to get funding for, because I was teaching, gosh, it was how many years ago, Facebook ads when they were just coming out. And it was hard to actually teach unless I could actually do it myself. And so I had to fund my own ads so that I could actually show how that worked. And so I completely understand that there's definitely, in terms of like keeping things current and relevant and trying to get that through the university level educational system, it's just very difficult. So you really found a great place, I think, and something that's very needed for today, for today's entrepreneur. Mehak: Yeah. That's, that's really cool. And you know, it's, it's one of those things that as I was building out Jamocha like you said, things were constantly changing. Anne: Yeah. Mehak: The algorithms were changing, the way that people were interacting with LinkedIn was changing. And that's what eventually actually was the reason why I ended up leaving Jamocha and not wanting to work on it anymore was because it was -- over time, it was just became so much harder to scale because things were changing so quickly. And I realized if we couldn't scale the services that we were giving people, because we were so dependent on the platforms, maybe we could scale the people that were giving the services. And that's what led me into wanting to start SkillBank, because we realized if we could teach people how to learn, and how to stay on top of the trends, and how to stay on top of social media, and how these platforms work, then maybe we can, we can build a scalable agency that way. And yeah, that's, that's how a SkillBank was born. Anne: Excellent. Excellent. I love the idea behind that, because it really is something that I feel that it's a constant process where to be successful out there and to keep up, you constantly have to be learning. And there are so many people, creatives in the entrepreneur world, that are not necessarily technologically inclined, nor are they inclined to understand marketing. That's not really their background. So I think having an educational platform that can really teach people how to learn and teach people and get them started, I think that's a wonderful idea. Tell me a little bit about the unique program that you have with Skillbank. What does it offer? Mehak: Yeah, so we actually started off teaching just growth marketing. So like -- actually not just; it was like everything under the sun; it was very general. So we taught paid media, so Facebook ads and Google ads. We taught organic marketing. We taught social media, uh, and it was always in 15 weeks. And we ran our first five cohorts doing that. And what we found was is our students that were leaving the program were -- they're having some trouble finding jobs. You know, they were like, this is Jack of all trades. They just didn't quite understand one thing really well. And it was hard for them to take that with them into their next job because they just didn't learn a specific thing. So that's when we decided to pivot. So now we just teach paid media. We just teach Facebook ads and Google ads over the span of 15 weeks. And within that time period, we get you agency ready and connect you with agencies at the end of the program. So that way we can help you land a full-time job doing paid media or being a paid media specialist or an account executive at an agency. Anne: Wow. That's fantastic. That's even above and beyond just teaching you how to do paid ads. So that's fantastic you even place people. And so how long have you been doing this program and how have your placements gone? Mehak: Yeah, so we, we just moved over into doing paid media in March. Anne: Okay. Mehak: So right now, based on the people that are, when someone graduates from the program, we're seeing about a 70-75% placement rate right now. Anne: Nice. Mehak: It hasn't been a full 180 days yet. And that's usually the industry standard for graduating from something and then landing a job. But we're expecting that number to definitely rise and get a lot higher. The curriculum is also getting better and better. We're using previous students that are coming back to us saying that, hey, you know, we wish maybe we would have learned this. And then we add that into our curriculum. So it's a really iterative process. And because the classes are so short, we really iterate it with the students as well. So every cohort so far has just been getting better and better and better. Anne: So are you offering these classes, are they -- to the general public? Mehak: Yes. Anne: I mean, what is your typical student look like? Are they young? Are they people who've been out in the industry for a while, and they come and they, they're like, I really need to know how to do paid? How, how is that working? Mehak: Our ideal demographic of the student is someone that is just ready to work. They're motivated, they're ready to land that job. We've taken people that are working at Starbucks like 50 to 60 hour weeks to now working at an agency full-time within the span of four to five months. So if you, if you know that marketing is something that you want to get into, you're motivated, you're willing to put the work in, we'll help you get to that next step. I think a lot of people come to SkillBank expecting us to be a silver bullet. You know, like they'll come into the program. We'll, we'll just hand you a job. Anne: Yeah. Mehak: And this is not how it works at all. So as long as you're motivated and you, you know that you're coming in and you have to put in a lot of time and effort, we can help you get over to that next phase. But right now on average, our classes, I think the age is anywhere between about 28 to about 35. Anne: Okay, okay. Mehak: And yeah, it's people that are in all different types of fields. We have people that are working at Starbucks, CVS to people that are making a career shift from programming because they aren't enjoying sitting behind the computer. So yeah, it really just depends on where you are, but you're just ready to work at an agency and get a job. Anne: So your program is also very unique and very different because you pay nothing until you land a job. Talk to me about that. Mehak: Yeah. So we, we really believe that opportunity should be to anyone that wants to work hard and wants to put in the work and wants to put in the effort. Opportunity shouldn't just be based on where you're from, what your educational background is or who you know, And to make opportunities available to people that are willing to work hard, we decided to make the program completely free upfront. So what that means is, is after you have graduated from our program and you're making over $30,000 a year, that's when you start to pay us back 10% of your salary -- Anne: Got it. Mehak: -- and that's over two years. Anne: Okay. Okay. Wow. That's a really unique idea. I think that's fantastic, especially with the way education is costing these days. It's something that truly is, again, so many people are talking about how we really need like educational reform. And this is a really wonderful way to do that. So how has it worked out so far? Mehak: It's been great. You know, whenever people come into the program, we're very, very, hands-on from the moment they enter to the moment that they leave. So, uh, once people actually land that job, it's been really exciting to see people through that process. And, you know, we've, we've been able to build a really strong community with everyone that's gone through the program, has graduated, been placed. And because of that, it's a lifelong thing. It's not just you go through the program and then you get a job and then you never hear from us again. Um, we're still throwing events. We're still in touch with a lot of the students. The students are coming back to talk to new students. So it's, it's been really good. It's been really cool to see people grow and come into their own over the span of a year since we've started. Anne: And this is 100% remote, correct? Mehak: Yeah. Completely remote. All of our classes take place on Zoom, and they're in the evenings. So that way you can do your full-time day job and then come and take us whenever you get. Anne: Nice. And so you were mentioning that some of your students come back. They come back to talk to the current students, but do you also have programs like refresher programs in terms of -- 'cause as we say, everything changes so frequently. Are you thinking of offering refresher programs or maybe paid programs that if people two years ago, you know -- Mehak: Yeah, for sure. Anne: -- they might need something new? Yeah. Mehak: Absolutely. You know, I think the biggest thing that we really push on in the program from day one is that we're trying to teach them how to learn. So we'll give you those, those building blocks and those stepping stones and help you get started. But a lot of our program is centered around, how do you read documentation? How do you get started on something on your own? How do you do research? Because the last thing that we want is our students are falling behind, because they were just shown how to do something, and then they just know how to do that thing. So we really put a really big emphasis on the program for them to learn. Uh, but over the span of the next few months, we're launching a lot of really exciting new things in SkillBank. So we have, we'll have a portal that's launching that they can actually come in and review classes that they had in the past. Anne: Oh nice. Mehak: They'll be able to see previous curriculum -- curriculum as it's being updated. And then we also offer to the students that if they want to come in and sit in on a class again, they're more than welcome to come and do that. Anne: Oh, that's fantastic. So in terms of the classes that you're offering, they're just becoming more and more. What is your staff like? How many teachers do you have? Mehak: Yeah, so we, we currently have right now about two instructors per cohort, one that acts as more of a TA and is around to help. And then, um, your main instructor and then, yeah, you know, our, our team is really small, but we, we hit all the things. So whenever a student comes into a program, they get assigned to a career advisor and, um, this career advisors with them throughout their time in the program to help them with preparing for mock interviews, getting the resume together, um, getting interviews together, salary negotiations, we cover all of that. And then you have your career advisor that's with you through that program. We also have our admissions counselor who's there with you to make sure that you understand the contract that you're signing and there to just help you throughout your time and to make sure that you're getting the support that you need along with your instructors. Anne: Yeah. I was going to ask you about the admissions. Is there a vetting process to, to enroll? Mehak: Yes, absolutely. Because the biggest thing, like I said earlier, is we want to make sure that you're ready to work, and you're ready to land a job within the next three to six months. If you're not in that place in your life, then SkillBank is not the place for you because the whole program is centered around helping you land a full-time job within the next six months. Anne: Now, are you teaching job search or the placement? Are you always placing people or are you teaching about job searching and resume? Mehak: -- teach about job search. Yeah, so we covered job search, we cover resume building, but a lot of our placement strategy right now, we have agencies that we're partnered with that we'll send out resumes to. And that's been a really great funnel for us, but also students will come to us and say, hey, I found this company that I'm really excited to work at, and then we'll help you prepare. And if it's someone that's within our network or our investors know, we will make intros as well. So we're really hands-on with the students to make sure that we're placing them into the type of company that they want to work at. But it's also just really important that if you do come into our program with that expectation of us placing you, that you also understand that you have to put in that work as well. Anne: Sure. Mehak: You still have to get your resume together. You still have to prepare for mock interviews. Like I said earlier, students sometimes come into the program expecting that like, okay, I graduated, and now SkillBank will help me land a job. And it doesn't work like that. The companies that we're partnered with still want to see that you're coming in prepared and that you know what you're talking about. Anne: Sure, sure. What do you see for the future of SkillBank? What are you looking to do? Mehak: Yeah, absolutely. So the whole premise of SkillBank is we want to help you learn market ready skills as quickly as possible so that we can go and land a job. So right now we're just focusing on marketing. It's paid media. We plan on going into organic at some point in the next couple of years, lifecycle marketing. And then eventually we want to completely own the non-technical space, moving into sales, operations. I think, you know, there's a lot of coding boot camps out there that are covering the technical aspects, the data boot camps. We want to cover everything that's non-technical. And then the really beautiful thing about that is it's not about putting the reps by on your own. It's just about learning, how do these platforms work, and then just learning just enough so that way we can actually help you get your foot in the door within that field. So our structure is a lot different and a lot quicker than these bootcamps that'll take 9 to 12 months to help you land a job that are a lot more technical. Anne: So talk to me a little bit about, because I'm so interested, the, the mayor. Mehak: Yes. Anne: Was that, was that before SkillBank or after Jamocha and before SkillBank -- Mehak: Way before SkillBank. Anne: So talk to me about, yeah, your interest in running for mayor. I think that's really inspiring. Mehak: Yeah. You know, I been living in SF for a couple of years when I decided to run, and I was just, I was really inspired by just the city. You know, there was, I was learning so much while I was there. It's just, it's such a beautiful city. And I just, I looked around at my friends and the people that were there and I was working with, and I, you know, it just, I realized that there wasn't -- there wasn't much ownership from my age group around how the city was progressing and the way things were going. And I realized that maybe I could take that into my own hands and maybe try to bring some more awareness and excitement to the SF political system. I highly recommend not running at such a young age. Anne: What did you learn? Mehak: It was a -- I learned SF politics is very interesting place to be in, but you know, at the same time, I'm glad I did it. I learned a lot about the system. I learned a lot about just how SF politics works, how California politics works. Uh, but yeah, definitely never doing that again. Anne: But it might've opened up your networking circle or maybe not the way you intended it to. Mehak: Yeah. You know, it was quite an experience. I don't know. I'm not really interacting with those people right now -- Anne: Right. Mehak: -- just based on what we're doing with SkillBank -- Anne: Sure. Mehak: -- but yeah. You know, I think overall I learned a lot just about what with SF politics right now they're really focusing on. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Well, what I love about it is that it's, it's just bold. It was such a bold move. And I think that that's such a trait of a, an amazing entrepreneur. So for my BOSSes out there that listen to this podcast who are entrepreneurs and all ages, really. As a matter of fact, I know quite a few of them are probably not millennial age. They're a little bit older, maybe thinking about this as a new career for them -- what would be your best advice for entrepreneurship? How can they build and grow a business today? It's such a crazy world out there. What would be your best tips? Mehak: Yeah, my, my first piece of advice to someone who comes up to me, and they're like, hey, should I start a business? Should I get into entrepreneurship? My first thing is to say, don't do it. And then if, and then if you hear that, and you're like, no, I still want to do it, then it's like, okay, here's, here's the things that you really need to think about. You have to build something that you're really passionate about. You can't start a business in a space -- because startups are hard, you know? Anne: Yeah. Mehak: There's days that work, there's days that things are working and like you're on cloud nine. And then the next day things are crashing and burning. Anne: Yeah. Mehak: And if you don't have conviction around what you're building and what you're excited about doing, you're setting yourself up for failure. So I think that's, that's the main thing that you really want to keep close to you. Is it, is this the thing that you want to be building? Is this the thing that you see yourself spending your time on? And if you're passionate about creating something and building something, I think entrepreneurship is the right place for you to be in. I think if you're in it for the money, if you're in it for fame or just not the actual process of building something and seeing something come to life, I think you're going to have a lot of trouble within that process. So I think just making sure that your incentives are aligned correctly and you know why you're doing what you're doing, I think that's, that's the biggest thing. Anne: So then we're convinced and we're passionate and we start our business. What would you say are the best ways to market that business in today's highly technical, online world and digitally chaotic, I should say, digitally chaotic? Mehak: For sure. Anne: So it's hard to get noticed. Mehak: There's two ways you can drive traffic. It's organically, or you can drive traffic through paid media. I think if you're going to take the paid media route, make sure that you have a budget so you can test things out. Anne: Sure. Mehak: But if you're going to take the organic route, I've been recommending to all my friends to start using TikTok. I think TikTok has an incredible algorithm for how they actually help you find an audience. If you're creating content that's engaging, is fun, it's following the trends, you'll be able to build an audience relatively quickly. I actually just picked up TikTok maybe about a month ago and probably pulled in about 4 million views, 10,000 new followers. And, you know, it's just by consistently putting things out and watching what other creators are doing within your space, you can sell, you can sell products, you can build a brand. Um, and I think TikTok is the best place to do that. And they'll also funnel an audience to your Instagram and to your YouTube. So yeah, I highly recommend taking the TikTok route. Anne: So then are you, are you talking about SkillBank on TikTok or are you just -- Mehak: For sure. Anne: -- okay. Is that the kind of content that you're putting out on TikTok? Mehak: Yeah, so, I mean, it's, it's a mix, right? My personal TikTok has a lot to do with just me. So it's like, you know, like we'll push a lot of content around. Like one of my employees is like running -- that's running the SkillBank TikTok, she'll push something up that's like making fun of me or making fun of my TikTok. And then like, we'll do a little back and forth. Uh, you know, we just, we found the voice, right? So it's like, my TikTok is more mainly about me and like telling my stories, but I talk a lot about SkillBank -- Anne: Okay. Mehak: -- or like being a CEO or like running my company. And it's through that process of getting to know me, you also get to know SkillBank, but then on the SkillBank page, we're like really focusing on how do we get people to understand what our value props are, what we're trying to teach, who our students are, where you can land a job. Yeah. I think it's, it's, it's a lot of trial and error. I've seen other companies that are just like straight to the punch -- Anne: Sure. Mehak: -- of just, hey, this is our product. This is what we do. And like, come buy it. And then they're, they found creative ways to do that and they're blowing up, but then you have other companies like Duolingo on TikTok that are being really funny. And they've like literally found a mascot that like walks around and like is like doing really silly stuff. So I think it just depends on what you're trying to do and who your, what kind of audience you're going after, but everyone is on TikTok from my mom to my little sister. Anne: And what's so interesting I know for a lot of people in our industry, voice talent, voice talent, you know, long time ago when people would ask, well, why did you want to get into voiceover, a lot of people would say, well, because I don't want to be on camera. I wanted to be an actor, but I didn't want to be on camera. So interestingly enough, and of course, video, I think is the medium that people are able to digest it easier than other types of media. So I think that it's absolutely effective for marketing, but I know a lot of our BOSSes out there are very resistant to actually going on to video. But I do know some of them that have really made a mark with their TikTok accounts. Any other platforms that you like? Mehak: Yeah. I think TikTok's the best. I think YouTube, if you're trying to maybe post more tutorials or how to's, if it's the tutorial that people are searching for, you can build a brand that way. YouTube's a search engine at the end of the day. Anne: Yeah. Mehak: So if you're creating content that people are searching for, you can build a brand there. And then I think Instagram is a really good place to be your homepage on the web right now. Anne: Okay. Mehak: You can have your link, your content, but if you're trying to build a brand, TikTok is by far the best place to be right now. Anne: Okay. Any final advice for BOSS entrepreneurs out there? Mehak: Absolutely. You know, just work hard and find what makes you happy, find what makes you excited to get up in the morning. And if you can figure that out, all of the money and the success and the fame and everything else will come along with that. Anne: I love it. I love it. Mehak, it has been such a pleasure talking to you today. Thank you so much. Mehak: Thank you so much for having me. This was great. Anne: I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like a BOSS and find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, be BOSSes, go out and do something that you love and have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye. Mehak: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Have you deconstructed the pay-to-play algorithm? We haven’t either, but we’re close! In this episode, Anne & Laya discuss the evolution of P2P’s from a talent-client connection tool to the modern algorithmic matching game. They share how to use P2P’s as a learning tool, how to build them into your business model, and why they have such a polarizing reputation… Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza along with my very, very special guest cohost Laya Hoffman. Laya: Hey Anne. Anne: Good morning, Laya. How are you? Laya: Good morning. It's chilly and the a -- in the dirty south, but I'm hanging in there. Glad to be back talking with you, of course. We always have such great conversations these days. I'm loving it. Anne: Yeah. That we do. And I wanted to kind of talk a little bit. We had talked last episode about casting, and we touched upon pay-to-plays -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- and that's always such a big topic in the voiceover land. Laya: Sure is. Anne: And I thought that it would be something that we could talk about today and just share our experiences that we've had, successes, I don't know, fails. Yeah. Let's let's chat about pay-to-play, shall we? Laya: We shall. I have quite a bit of experience. I think I have like a modern mindset perspective on pay-to-plays. So it'd be a great fit for our theme, right? Anne: Let's go from the old mindset first, because I -- Laya: Okay. Anne: -- back in the day, I swear it was like back in 2000-something when Voice123 came onto the scene. I was an early, early adopter of that. Laya: As was I. Anne: Yep, and I remember having quite a bit of success with Voice123. I actually really loved the model because it allowed me to upload all my demos and samples and basically get job opportunities from different clients. And there was basically no interference. I got to have the opportunity from the client, communicate with the client, book a job with a client. And then actually a lot of times the client would just then come to me without necessarily having to go through Voice123 for the next job. So I kind of liked that. It was a win situation I think for all of us because I paid a membership fee to Voice123, and I got my job. And then every once in a while, if I had repeat clients, they would come back to me, not necessarily having to go through Voice123, but it wouldn't have even mattered to be honest with you, because if they favorited me, they didn't have to audition again. So it just worked out really well. And it has certainly evolved over the years. It's been a good 15 or so years now of pay-to-plays being on the scene. There are so many more of them. Laya: Yeah. Anne: But I found them to be extremely lucrative in the beginning when I started. And now I've got a different opinion, but let me hear about your -- let's hear about your experience -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- in the beginning with pay-to-plays. Laya: Yeah, I feel the same way. I mean, as we've mentioned before, you know, I really only dove in full time about three years ago, but I'd always been doing voice work. And I was an early adopter of Voice123 as well. I've been a member since 2011, so over 10 years. And that was just back when it was kind of toying with this cool, you know, I mean, everything on the web seemed to be fresh and new. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And they were among the first to kind of harness the power of connecting talent with buyers. Right? And so how great. They made it easy, they kind of one-stop shopped it, and they didn't get in your way. And the price was fair because there wasn't a whole lot of reach. Anne: Yeah. Laya: I mean, we all know how this has evolved over the last few years, especially. It's been a different experience for a lot of people, but I had the same experience you did early on. And then I kind of went dormant for several years. Didn't really put a whole lot of effort in, but on occasion I would still get hit up even with my like really crappy samples back then. I didn't know what I was doing. And so it was kind of a nice lead source, right? Lead gen for me. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Laya: And I think it was for a lot of people. So I'm glad you share the same sentiment. Anne: Yeah. Now, I think it's fair to say that any pay-to-play, no matter what, seems to be a game of having really great demos and not just one of them uploaded on a pay-to-play. Laya: Yeah. Anne: I think all of the pay-to-plays subscribed to that. The more samples that you have -- because it's all a matching game. It's all a search algorithm and a matching game. And that's kind of like the secret of Google, but in pay-to-plays, right? Laya: Yeah, yeah. Anne: We all were trying to debug the algorithm so that we could get the opportunities sooner and faster and get more of those either likes or stars on the system. And I just remember probably going back maybe close to eight to ten years ago, people started then having classes on here's how to optimize your experience, right? Or this is what you want to -- kind of like how to optimize your profile on a pay-to-play. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So for BOSSes out there, I want to say that pay-to-plays are absolutely a part of this industry. They're not going away anytime soon. Laya: Nope, that's right. Anne: And I do believe that they are part of your opportunities that you need to look out for when you are trying to get business and grow your voiceover business. Laya: Yeah. I would agree with you, Anne, and I actually -- you know, there is such a negative connotation about pay-to-plays, whether people are on -- I will wrap the Fiverrs of the world into the pay-to-play model, just because in a way you are optimizing a profile. Anne: Yup. Laya: You're using somebody else's house to promote your business -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- as opposed to just doing it yourself on your own website, your own LinkedIn page, et cetera. But I think no matter how you cut your marketing pie and your opportunity pie, you got to eat from each of those sections, especially in the beginning just to get your footing. Right? Anne: Absolutely. Laya: Just to kind of understand what is out there, what types of reads suit you best, where you sit. I mean, I said it on a previous episode and it's absolutely true, although I'm not entirely proud of it. Early on the pay-to-plays to me were practice ground. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And I know that's not the popular way to think of those things because you are putting yourself out there, and it's important that you do so with dignity and grace and respect and present a professional profile, no matter what, but that's how I learned some things -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- in the privacy of my home, in my studio, in my mic, my Skid Row Studios. Anne: And you know what I understand the thought process of here you are putting yourself out there and maybe you're not putting yourself out there with the best foot forward, but at some point you do have to put yourself out there, and your very first time that you put your voice out there, it's not going to be optimal. And so I think where else, right? Whereas I think a better place -- and I'm not saying that you're going to learn, I think probably more by doing it in kind of an open marketplace, and here's the deal. There's always, there's always clients out there. Right? Laya: Yeah. Anne: And so the one client that might hear your sample and says, "oh, you know, that's not up to par" or maybe they hear your audition, and they're like, "oh no, that's not" -- I mean, the one thing that you don't want is maybe a negative rating because that will hurt you on the pay-to-plays. You don't want to have people -- Laya: For sure. Anne: -- saying things, but I don't think in the normal run of things that somebody's gonna rate you -- well, they might rate you poorly or write a note and say, well, I would never hire this person. Laya: No. Anne: I think that in the grand scheme of things, that doesn't happen, and I would consider it an investment in your business, an investment to finding out here are the types of jobs that are available out there and get yourself used to the different styles. I think once you've coached, you've created your demos, and you're not actively out there coaching, you may not see the current relevant scripts or styles that are out there and being hired. So I think that's -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- so important to do that. So I think pay-to-plays are definitely something that you should have in your toolbox. And like you said, you're paying to play in someone else's house. I prefer always to have the control in my house, but you know, when you're first starting, I think you have to just create as many opportunities as you can. Laya: Yeah. I would agree with that. And the other thing I like about pay-to-plays that I don't think we talk enough about is the opportunity to learn from others. You know, you can go onto voices.com, not as a member and not have a profile yourself -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and just learn from the top tier talent that are booking every week. You know, they've got their top tens in female, in male, top 100 this month, you know, biggest earners, top 10. And you can go scrub through those profiles -- Anne: Listen. Yup. Laya: -- and learn by listening -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and by reading how they optimize or how they describe their voice or vocal tone, some of their capabilities, some of their sound-alikes, you know, and that in itself, I think every profile on every one of these pay-to-play opportunities, there is something to learn there, if you're willing to take the time with open eyes and an open mind to really see what everyone else is bringing to the table. And that way you can learn, whether you're a VO pro or you're a novice, there's always something to learn from these sites. So if we can scrub off the negative connotation on these and really just use them as a learning vehicle, whether it's a practice vehicle or just learning by watching and listening, then there's definitely something to gain whether you're a member or not. Anne: Yeah. And speaking of the negative connotations for, I dunno, BOSSes just starting out in the industry, there are some online casting pay-to-plays that do not have the best of reputations. And I think if you were to research any of the voiceover groups and do a search for the particular name of the pay-to-play that you might be researching, you'll find lots and lots and lots of discussion about that. Laya: Yes. Anne: And I think it becomes a personal decision. So just in a nutshell, some of the pay-to-plays have been found to be maybe unscrupulous, maybe some business practices that may not align with what others may think as being ethical. And so I think it really, it really comes down to you. This is your business and you choose who you want to do business with. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So I would say before you invest in any of the pay-to-plays, make sure you're doing some research on which ones you're interested in and see what other people are saying. There's a lot of people saying a couple of these are definitely not practicing ethical business practices. So if you want to align yourself with that business or not, I think that's a personal decision. Laya: I would agree with that. And you brought up a great point. I don't think enough VO talent use that search resource within voiceover specific groups on Facebook, for instance. You can literally type in Voice123 -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- or Voices or Fiverr or any -- VO Planet, any of the names, the big names. Before you buy your membership, do yourself a favor and scrub those pages, those groups for those keywords, because everybody has done the -- done the work for you. Anne: Yup. Laya: Trust me, there's probably a million, and everybody's got an opinion, you know. Anne: Sure do. Laya: Form your own by reading and taking it with a grain of salt, reading between the lines a little bit, because that's not for us to just go -- we can spend months talking about that. Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: And then we're not here for that. Just as a guide to say, there are resources out there that'll give you a look behind the curtain -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and plenty of conversations around this. And again, just do what's best for your business. So I'm happy to share what I've done that's best for mine, if you want to talk about it or we can dive in a little bit. Anne: Yeah, well, I think one thing I just want to tap off of what you just said is it is all about your business. And I always have my favorite saying, and that is mind your own business, not -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- you know, not into additional sense of, but you need to mind your own business and what's good for you in terms of how you want to invest, how you want to align yourself, how you're going to get those job opportunities, because you know, voiceover is an amazing career. However, it's not an amazing career when you don't have any jobs. So -- Laya: Yeah, yeah. Anne: -- this is a major component of that. And I'll just start off by saying currently now over the years, I've evolved. Thankfully, gratefully I've evolved where I have a nice customer base. I have a nice set of returning customers. I do some direct marketing, and we had talked about that previously as well. And I am a member of a couple of pay-to-plays. However, I'm gratefully busy enough that I don't have time to always audition for them, but they remain in my pocket for times when maybe the job opportunities are on the low side so that I can always, oh, let me go ahead and audition for this. Let's see what happens. Laya: Right. Anne: So I have some good experiences with a couple that I feel are aligned with my business, ideals and practices, and they kind of sit there at the ready for me. Laya: And I think not only are they a resource to tap into when you need them or when you've got a little extra time, especially as you evolved your voiceover business. I'm kind of getting to the same point as well. And I'm super grateful for that. Anne: Yup. Laya: But I also keep those profiles optimized -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- and present because their SEO beats the heck out of mine. Anne: Yup, well, absolutely. Laya: And I can never put as much advertising into my own business to outweigh the SEO that, let's say, a Voice123 does. They put all their money into that. And they really own the market share in a lot of ways. Now, there are some talent, yourself as one of them, that have incredible SEO and have managed to really make huge leaps and bounds in that area. But for me, who doesn't spend a lot of money or time optimizing my personal site, not as much as I probably could, I use them for a search. You know, I'm just another great voice that they can find in search as part of the -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- bigger marketplace of buyers looking. Anne: Well, have you seen, if you do a Google search for anything voiceover, the first results that show up are all the voiceover pay-to-plays. Laya: Yes. Anne: And that's because every member has some form of the word voiceover in their profile -- Laya: Yup, that's right. Anne: -- we -- you -- Laya: We've done it. Anne: -- probably couldn't pay enough. Although Fiverr has certainly paid, like I remember, gosh, they've been paying Google ads forever for voiceovers. So if you search for anything voiceover, one of the top results that will show up is Fiverr. So it is an SEO kind of search game. And just as you said, as you optimize your profile -- which that was always a key element, a key strategy. When you are part of a pay-to-play, you want to make sure that you have a profile that is searchable and that can show up when -- when a client wants to find a voice that is compassionate or has experience in, let's say, healthcare or technical. So you want to make sure that that profile is optimized to react to those searches. And there are lots and lots of classes on these and that you can take, if you want some help with that. Laya, I think you mentioned to me before you had taken a class on how to optimize your profile for pay-to-plays. Laya: Yeah, I sure did. You know, I, it's a tough thing to talk about yourself. When you really put your fingers on the keyboard and you really have got to start to identify what your sample sound is described as, or how do you talk about yourself as a -- from a bio? Anne: Sure. Laya: Do you -- is it first person? Is it third person? That sometimes can be a really big block for us creatives because I'm not a copywriter. And certainly I could tell somebody else what they sound like, but it's really hard to narrow down in your own mind what your samples sound like -- Anne: Oh, so true. Laya: -- and how they stack against anybody else that might be in your same space. And so I found a really great resource in two fellow voice talent, Katherine Toll, and Natasha Marchesky. I hope I'm pronouncing her last name correctly, but they do a service. I think it's called VO Pros or -- Anne: V123 Pros, I believe. Laya: Yeah. V123 Pros. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And they offered like a, a short course and it was peer-led. Of course they were helping us with that and really trying to figure out how to curate and cultivate keywords that made sense for your voice print. And everyone got to participate together, listening to each other's and then providing feedback. I found that to be incredibly eyeopening because it is so hard to describe your own voice. Anne: Sure, sure. Laya: So that's where I started. And then it was so beneficial and so eye opening to me because of course, I am a member of Voice123 and Voices, and I was able to apply those same key words not just on my pay-to-play profiles but on my own website. Anne: Website. Laya: Yeah, and so that, I was able to use that information a plethora of ways. And I was so impressed by the process, I actually hired those two talented ladies to optimize my profile one-on-one and just let me take my hands off the wheel because we were going to crash, and it really paid off. So yeah. Anne: It does help. It does help to have another set of ears listening -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- to you and helping to brand you. I mean, that's just every day when I'm working with students that I'm vocally branding them -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- because it's very hard to brand yourself, as you mentioned. Laya: Yes, it is. Anne: And it does help to have others' ears and eyes. And I'll tell you what, one of the most popular podcasts, by the way, BOSS podcasts to this date even is Bad-Ass BOSS Bios. Laya: Oh yeah. Anne: So you can check that out. Yeah. Do a search on that. We have a template that can help you to write your bio. This bio was intended for everything, your website, profiles, and it's how to write your bio better. And those BOSSes out there that are thinking of parallel income streams and multiple passion-preneurs that you are, if you're good at writing, and you're good at writing bios, here's a nice side business for you. Laya: Yeah, it is. Oh my gosh. Anne: Because so many people just don't know what to write or it's very difficult. And so that I would say is a great little sideline business. Laya: Oh, I love that. Yeah. I might need the template myself, because it is, it's hard to kind of present yourself to the world. You know, you get nervous, you get a little anxious, and you want to make sure that you're using, of course, proper punctuation -- Anne: Sure, absolutely. Laya: -- and the right descriptive words, and you're not totally over yourself or underselling yourself. Anne: Yeah. Laya: That's a big thing too. And so I loved what they were able to curate for my voiceprint. And I've applied that, like I said, to not only my profiles, but my website -- Anne: Yep. Laya: - so much, so is as soon as we flipped the switch on my profile, and it was optimized fully, I got hit up directly by a very, very nice paying client without even auditioning. So it essentially paid for itself. And that was a win for me. Now, I know that's, you know, maybe not the case in every situation, but that really took a big burden off of my shoulders. Anne: Sure. Laya: And like we talked about earlier, you know, if you can't do it, outsource it, and those, those two really helped me out. So that was one way to win on pay-to-plays for me. But I found some other ways over the years too. So. Anne: Well, I do want to make a mention that even if you're not a member of the pay-to-play or we'll just go back and retouch on this topic. If it wasn't evident before, go ahead and create a profile, a free profile -- Laya: Oh yeah. Anne: -- because that just helps you in terms of -- the more SEO you can get online, the better. Laya: Yep. Anne: So if you can create a free profile, I say, go ahead. I mean, it just makes you available and out there on more search engines. So definitely make sure that you're creating those profiles. I think I had a free profile on a couple of them, and I got direct inquiries from them. So, and I got jobs -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- without even necessarily having to belong to the pay-to-play. So that was always a good thing. Laya: That's right. Yeah, sure is, Anne. And I don't think people realize that enough. They're like, God, I got to pay for a membership? Anne: Yup. Laya: Well, yes. And I would say this. For me, my business strategy is if there is going to be an opportunity where I'm going to invest, I want to invest all in at this -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- point in my business. Anne: Sure. Laya: I want that premium or that platinum level membership. Because even if, like you mentioned, even if I'm not contributing and doing the auditions on a regular basis, that's going to optimize my visibility to be the cream of the crop when other buyers are looking for voices. So while I may not be active on these sites, at least my profile is hitting -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- the first rung in search. And I find that in itself to be a huge value and actually pay for the cost of, you know, the party. Right? Anne: Right, right. Laya: So if you can even get one client out of that, then you may have paid for your year subscription or whatever. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Laya: And that's something to consider. Anne: Now, you mentioned that there are different levels and that is something -- of these pay-to-plays -- that is something that as of late, right, all of the pay-to-plays, I believe, have kind of taken on this -- well, okay. There was a one membership fee that, you know, for many years you paid one membership fee. And then eventually over the years, I think the majority of them started creating these levels of membership. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And so I think that's where it started for me to really think, whoa, now I see where -- before it was just like, oh, okay. A membership, you know, they make a profit, I get jobs. I make a profit. And I felt like we were on a level playing ground. Then when pay-to-plays became, I don't know, maybe the voiceover industry grew, and they became more competitive with one another. And then they started creating these levels. I thought, huh, I see. I wonder how these levels are actually working, because here's the deal. I love having control over my business. So when somebody is playing around with an algorithm, right -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- and saying, okay, if you pay another amount, you're going to get listed higher in the search engines or you'll get the jobs earlier. Then it really, I start really thinking about, well, I have no control over how they're judging when I'm getting an audition or not. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And will I be first on the list? But it became this kind of race to buy the platinum memberships or buy the high level memberships that would get you the auditions quicker so that you could get the opportunities quicker. And I think for a while, it actually was something that worked for some people. And I think some people, they did not see results. And so all that kind of discussion that started happening made me start to question, okay, so how are these working? My technical brain, 'cause you know, I used to work in technology, started spinning and saying, oh, what are they really doing to get me better opportunities? So I did join a platinum level back in the day. And I did find that I got more opportunities. However, I was so busy that I couldn't take advantage of it as much, which was silly because I paid a lot of money. But I do believe that up to a certain point, paying for those levels and upgrading those levels does give you a better shot. However, I don't know how much control you have over that. I don't know, Laya. Laya: Yeah. Anne: What are your thoughts about that? Laya: You know, I feel the same way. It's really, it feels icky, right, when anybody's got their hand out or in your pocket, and you're a solo-preneur. Anne: Yeah. Laya: You're -- you own your business. And every bit of that investment needs to kind of be cross-checked. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: And if you're not getting the value, and that's not working for your business model, then you know, it's not for you. And that's okay. None of these solutions are for everybody. Anne: Sure. Laya: As far as the tiers go for me, there was a point in my career that I had the time, that I wasn't seeing a unique opportunities for my agents, and that the marketing efforts weren't bringing in as regular of bookable opportunities as I would have liked. I was on some production houses, et cetera. But so I really leaned into those, into Voice123 primarily, but Voices as well. And you know, I think what's interesting about those is I did notice a huge change when up-leveled as far as opportunities. I also got a lot of direct bookings that way. Anne: Myself too. Laya: Yep. And then private invites, if you're on Voices, by some of account managers. And I think it, depending on if you can book them will depend on whether or not those costs are justified. Anne: Sure. Laya: I personally saw a huge increase. And so I stayed at those levels. Now, I've since dropped down because the opportunities in my business is just busier, just like you mentioned, and I don't have time to audition, but I still do prefer more visibility from those premium levels on those sites. Anne: Sure. Laya: If I'm going to be there, I want to be at the top, and it's paid off in different ways. It's very hard to really gauge it. And you're a numbers person too. You're technical. Anne: Yep. Laya: So you want to- -- Anne: Oh, yeah. Laya: -- you want to see the ROI. Anne: Oh, definitely. Laya: It's very hard to gauge, but if you've been on them long enough and you've made a jump either up or down, I think it's pretty clear that the opportunities go where the levels do. And it's unfortunate they're doing that, but hey, they're business just like we are. Anne: Absolutely. And I think it's important to include them as opportunities. And now of course, I also include them for opportunities because I like to consider myself an educator in this industry. And so for me, it's also, it's an investment in an experience, right? So I can't tell you how many times, I mean, I've wanted to just join all of the pay-to-plays because I want to have that individual experience that I can then share with my students or share with people in the industry to say, here's my experience, because you know, we all like to help each other and lift each other up -- Laya: Yep. Anne: -- in this game. So I'm never one to judge anymore about which pay-to-play. That was a thing too, where there was like some public shaming if -- Laya: Yep. Anne: -- if you belong to one or another. But again, I'm of the thought that we should mind our own businesses and look, who am I to judge someone else if they're going to put food on the table. Laya: And that's just -- Anne: That's just not -- Laya: Yep, that's right. Anne: -- my thing. Laya: That's what it comes down to. And one of the things I heard out there, and again, we don't want to get into it, but is that some agents wouldn't sign you on -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- if you had placement on some of these pay-to-plays. Anne: I had heard too. Laya: That's something to consider if that's part of your end game strategy. Anne: Yep, yeah. Laya: For me, I want to be with a partner that has my best interest and -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- sometimes, if they can't feed me, I got to eat somewhere. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Laya: So until they can fully pay my entire mortgage and put food -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- on my family's table, I got to do what is best for my business. And for me, it was seeing some of those opportunities. Anne: Yeah. Laya: Now I will say, when it comes to the scrutiny, whether it's, there's hearsay about are these digital models pulling down the overall rates in the industry? Anne: Yes, that's a big indus- -- that's a big discussion. Laya: Exactly. And you know what I have to say about that? I think if you're a strong business person and you know what the standard rates are, it's very easy. Everyone can go to the GVAA -- Anne: Yep. Laya: - and weigh their own rates or their ideas about a project against the rate guide. Anne: Sure. Laya: And if you really want to stay true to that, which I do, then I only take a look or auditioned for the opportunities that are in alignment -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- with the standard industry rates. Anne: Absolutely. And that is always a choice. So glad you said that because -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- it is a choice. No matter what pay-to-play platform you're on or whoever you're working with, it is a choice where to put your value, which is why it comes down to know your worth, know your value. Laya: Right. Anne: Even on Fiverr, you can, you know what I mean? There's a way to set your value. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And as you mentioned, it is a real thing. There are some agents that will refuse to necessarily look your way if you are involved. And that is with some of the pay-to-plays because that is a brand alignment. And that is something as a business -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- you make that choice, whether you want to align your brand with another brand. And that's why, again, it's that whole kind of -- it's another level of control that's removed from you. If you are choosing to align yourself with a pay-to-play, then make sure that your business and ethical values line up together. And you know what? It is a real thing to other people that may affect your career, agents, casting directors, production houses, they may make a judgment based upon your affiliation. And so that is something to absolutely consider whether or not you want to do that. But at the end of the day, right, we all have the choice of what to do and come on, I'm going to get very real and very honest. Back in the day when I was just starting out in the industry, like, as you mentioned, sometimes we used the pay-to-plays to kind of practice. Sometimes we used to understand the industry better. And a lot of times, well, you know, in the beginning, I might've taken jobs that were under the GVAA rate guide. Laya: For sure. Anne: I'm just going to admit it. I think we all do. It's like one of those things that you hide and that you don't ever, just don't mention it because there are people out there saying don't bring the value of the industry down. And I get that. Laya: Of course. Anne: But here's the deal. It's going to happen in every industry, not just ours. Laya: Yeah. Anne: There's always the bottom feeders. And so, you know, it's nice to say we band together, and we know our worth. I think that's the general moral, like, takeaway from that is just know your worth. Know that you're worth more than if you're like, oh my God, I should only because I'm just beginning charge a little bit. No, you know, you've made an investment in your career. You are worth just as much as me, who's had 20 years experience, I'm just saying, when it comes down to it, so know your worth. I think that's the most important thing, and pay-to-plays, they're a viable option, viable option for you, BOSSes. Laya: Yeah. You can make your choices. You know, you don't have to audition for everything. Anne: Yep. Laya: You don't have to put your name in the hat for everything. Just like you don't have to audition for everything that your agent sends. Just like you don't have to say yes to every opportunity a client brings you. Anne: Yeah. Laya: It's really your choice and who is anybody else to judge on whether or not that makes sense for your business. So I'm so glad we talked about this. Anne: Me too. Laya: I feel like there are many different avenues when it comes to pay-to-plays. I think like we summed up, it all comes down to doing what's best for your business -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- at the time. And the, you know, the pace that's right for your business. Anne: Sure. Laya: -- and for all of us, that's different. So it was a great conversation. Anne: Yeah. We could probably, we could probably go on and on and on about this, but yeah. Laya: Yes. Anne: Awesome conversation, BOSSes. So those pay-to-plays are an option for you. Again, do what's best for you and your business. And hey, I'd like to give a great, big shout-out to another business who is upping my value here and upping our value for the VO BOSS podcast. And that is ipDTL. You guys can learn to connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- and we'll see you next week. Laya: Thanks. Anne: Bye. Laya: Bye-bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

The synthetic voice conversation is here. Do you want a seat at the table? Anne is joined by special guest Jon Stine for a bonus Voice & Ai episode. They cover what the Open Voice Network (OVN) is, how to be a part of it, and the importance of asking questions. What are the regulations for synthetic voices, how can VO industry members get involved, and are we willing to create the standards before they’re made for us…  

Just in case you were wondering, you definitely wear all the hats now. In today’s modern at-home recording world, you’re the voice, engineer, customer service department, and tech wizard of each session; and some of those hats can get pretty cumbersome. In this episode, Anne and Laya discuss what it takes to be a BOSS in the booth, and how to maximize your potential success with tools, tech, and processes that work. It’s not enough to just have a great voice or be an excellent performer anymore, but being a #VOBOSS in your booth is achievable. Learn how in this episode, jam-packed with ideas from these savvy bosses… Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza along with my very special guest co-host BOSS Laya Hoffman. Hey Laya, how are you? Laya: I'm great. Anne. How are you? Anne: I'm doing good. It's been a hectic week in the booth here, which is a good thing. I'm very grateful about that, but hectic in terms of I had clients who are asking a lot of me. Laya: Oh yeah? Anne: Not just voicing. Laya: Aren't they always? Anne: Yeah. Not just voicing in the booth, but they wanted playback. They wanted to invite the client in. And so I thought it would be a good day to talk about how to be the BOSS in the booth and handle these, handle the tech, handle these situations when a lot is being requested of us these days. Laya: So much, you know. Gone are the days of just stepping into the studio and all you have to do is focus on your acting -- Anne: Remember that? Laya: -- the copy and what it feels like to deliver, you know, the message. Now you have to have all the hats on -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- simultaneously while keeping your cool and still delivering an outstanding performance. And it is harder than we realize -- Anne: Oh my gosh -- Laya: -- especially when the going gets tough. Anne: Yeah. And shout-out, okay, before anything else, a big shout-out to all the studios out there -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- and pre-pandemic too. Like I always appreciated studios and sometimes even more so now, you never realized what a luxury it is to walk into a studio and to be directed. Laya: Yes, I miss it. Anne: Right? It is a wonderful thing. And I think there's always a place for studios, but during the pandemic, when we had to kind of up our game and get our tech in place and be able to engineer and do all that, oh, that was tough. So thank you to all of those studios. Some of my favorite studios shut down, and it's so sad, and I hope that they, you know, we're now coming back to a different place. I'm so glad when I see people in studios, and they're like, oh my gosh, I'm so happy to be back in studio, seeing people, so. Laya: Well, and it's true because even the engineers -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- like I have great respect for these engineers and the sound designers that are manning the board and the client in one ear. Anne: Yup. Laya: And they've got another client patched in from somewhere else. And they have really been the lead for all these years -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- to really help craft a comfortable setting for -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- so many of us that are dealing with our own insecurities or -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- our own demands or our own needs that are happening on every angle of the table or the studio. And so I have a whole new respect having really had to shift that in house, but now it's, you know, it's a new skill learned, and I really haven't seen anywhere where you can learn the art of how to be your own BOSS in the booth -- Anne: Right? Laya: -- so this should be an interesting conversation. Anne: Well, I think, first of all, you have to educate yourself on some of these technologies that are -- Laya: Yep. Anne: -- that may be required of you. So number one, first of all, you've got to connect to a studio if you're doing a live direct, right? Or you have to be able to connect a client to be able to hear you. And so -- Laya: Yeah, your studio, right? Anne: Yeah. There are a lot of ways to do that. I know that prior to the pandemic, we were doing, a lot of people were doing stuff via Skype, and then Zoom kind of became a thing. I've had people connect via Zoom. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And I'm going to give a shout-out to, you know, our sponsor ipDTL, because I've always been able to connect other people to me via ipDTL and a very easy -- Laya: Yeah, flawlessly. Anne: Flawlessly, seamlessly, in a wonderful -- and the cool thing is, is that I even have a phone number, like my ipDTL, somebody can call a phone number and connect up with me via ipDTL. So on the other end, if you've got a client who's not technical -- Laya: Yep. Anne: -- at the very least, just give them a phone number and they can connect. Laya: Always. Anne: Now -- Laya: That's awesome. I didn't realize that about them. Good share, for sure. Anne: Yeah. Laya: For sure. Anne: But even before that, if you want to get even more elementary, right -- Laya: Of course. Anne: -- I used to have people connect to me in the studio by having my phone and earbuds. And so I'd have them call my cell phone, put my earbuds in my ear, and then my headphones over, right, my ears. Laya: Oh wow. Anne: And they would be in my ear. And it was like before you had to do a complicated -- there were people that would talk about having complicated phone patch in to your studio. And then thank goodness for cell phones with earbuds. Laya: Right. We still call it phone patch -- Anne: Right? Laya: -- but it's like, we're actually, we've upped the tech a little bit. Right? Anne: Yup. Laya: It's not necessarily a phone, but yeah, you're right. There's so many clients and partners out there that need to pass it on to somebody that isn't used to this program, you know, is used to just going into a studio and letting somebody else handle it. So you gotta make it easy for them with something as simple as a phone number -- Anne: Yeah. Exactly. Laya: -- or a Zoom link or something that they're used to. You got to meet them where they are. Anne: Yeah. I think that's your client non-technical person that needs to be able to hear what you're doing with their copy -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- is a phone patch, the cell phone number, the Zoom connection, Skype connection. And that's just something that you want to make sure that as a talent, when they are connected, they are either muted when you are obviously voicing the copy or, you know, you are muting them so that you're not getting the feedback. Or even if they're in your ear, you don't want that to bleed through. So -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- make sure that you have a good mute system or you know how to mute clients when you are speaking the copy. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And that I would say the very elemental client connect to us in our studio, those are some viable methods. Now what about connecting to studios? We have a couple of different options here. Laya: Yeah, we do. And I even want to go back a step if, if that's all right with you, Anne. Anne: Sure. Laya: Because I found that more and more of my clients who are used to into a studio may not be used to connecting now virtually with a studio. And so they're just coming straight to me as the voice talent saying like, how do we get this done? And so I offer a few solutions, right? I say, you know, um, I have multiple connectivity options. You can connect with me via the digital methods, which would be Skype, Google Hangouts, Zoom -- funny story as a side, I offered just to Zoom and Skype to a client that works with Google. And so they were like -- Anne: Oh wow. Laya: -- oh no, we do Google Hangouts. And I was like, oh yeah, of course -- Anne: Got to offer that. Laya: That's now, don't want to offend Google. So of course that's in the mix or phone patch, you know, I say, if you've got a conference line -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- but right from the jump I say, you know, or I would prefer to connect with a studio of your choice, or I can recommend one for SourceConnect or ipDTL -- Anne: ipDTL. Laya: -- or anything like that that makes it easy on them. So I first put it in their court when approached with it, because I do find that so many times, they're like, uh, how do we do this? You know, at least that was the case in the very beginning. Anne: Well, I want to add to that list, in addition to your visual hangouts, if they just need an audio hangout, there's also Bodalgo Call. There's also -- Laya: Yes. Anne: Right? That they can just connect up audibly. And by the way, I had some international clients that Zoom did not work. And so they had to use Skype. And that was the only thing that -- Laya: Skype is another one, yeah. Anne: -- will work. Really depends on certain protocols, I know, of security. Laya: Yep. Anne: And so one was Skype. Another person could only connect via Zoom. The other, if it's audio only, it could be, but Bodalgo Call. There's also Open Connection. I'm trying to think what else is -- I think now, um, I'm just trying to think. There is a new capability of I -- maybe it's Mac iOS that you can connect an audio call. I'm gosh, I'm now, I'm going to, I'm going to go crazy trying to think of it. But anyways, there are those other options where if you just need an audio connection where they listen in, you can offer that, where they don't have to dial a number, but they can join in via computer. Laya: Yes. Anne: And there's audio options for any of these. Laya: Oh for sure there is. Anne: Yeah. So obviously if you don't have to have video, which I recommend, to be honest with you. I don't know if I really want people that in my booth, you know, when I'm performing -- Laya: I agree with you. Anne: -- like you don't have to look at me. Laya: I agree with you. In fact, I want to touch on that a little bit, because in addition to that, like I hear Zoom and I'm like, oh my gosh, I got to like, look presentable. Anne: Gotta do my hair. Laya: But a couple of key points there for me have been, well first, I'll ask them what their preferred connectivity, but I'll asterisk with, if you find that playback during our session is going to be essential -- Anne: Oh yes. Laya: -- for decision-making with your client -- some clients are just like, no, just send me -- I just want to listen in. And they're very low hassle, I don't know. Anne: Yep. Laya: They're easy to deal with. And so that you've worked with them in the past. It's no big deal. They just want to listen in. And sometimes they've got a lot of people on the line, and a lot of personalities and they definitely want playback. And I said, well, hey, unless we're connecting to a studio, which can absolutely engineer that -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- the only way that my capabilities are going to allow playback are through Zoom. I haven't found any other playback capabilities, albeit I haven't looked very hard, but I'm like you, have an Apollo. I use Adobe Audition. And I have found that the only thing I can do playback on is through Zoom, if they're not using SourceConnect, of course. What are your options? Have you found any? Anne: So that's really interesting because I have an Apollo, and I use Twisted Wave. So my Apollo acts as a virtual audio output device -- Laya: Interesting. Anne: -- because I can play it within Twisted Wave, and they'll be able to hear it, which is something I didn't have until I got the Apollo. Other interfaces, they did not act as that. There's some software that you can load on your computer that can act as a virtual audio output device, like Sound Flower. The other thing too, if I need to play back for a client or a studio, I use ipDTL, which allows me to -- Laya: Right, perfect. Anne: -- play it back. But it's always like, oh, can we get playback? And I'm like, all right, but it's the raw audio. Laya: Yeah, I haven't cleaned it. Anne: I haven't edited anything out. But that's my paranoid, non-engineer, you know -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- going, oh my God, all right, I can play it back, but you're going to hear that mouth or something. Laya: And those curveballs can really throw you off your performance games. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: So it's important to know all these avenues. And I'm so glad you pointed out those playback options. It might just be in my lack of knowledge or education -- Anne: ipDTL. Laya: -- on the matter. So I'm going to look that up, but yeah, of course. So I'm going to offer that. They're my partner now too. Anne: But if I had my choice, if I had my choice, if I am on the line with a studio, and I'm connected via ipDTL, SourceConnect, Connection Open, and I think there's another high quality audio connection option out there right now. Forgive me that I can't think of it right now, but ipDTL and SourceConnect are the two big ones, but I -- Laya: And SessionLink, I think I've done -- Anne: Oh, SessionLink. Laya: Yep. Anne: That's it. That's the one I was thinking of. So those are options when you want to connect up to a studio, and when that happens, I love it because the studio engineer can typically do the playback. Laya: Same, same. Anne: Yeah. Laya: I'm like, yes, I can finally just focus on me -- Anne: Being an actor. Laya: Yes. Uh, I wish buyers knew what a better performance they probably get -- Anne: Right? Laya: -- and a smoother transition when they get, when you're dealing with a studio and an engineer. It really does take the pressure off. So let's talk about what happens when it doesn't go so well. Anne: You're flustered. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So number one, I'm going to say this, just from experience and just from a tech experience as well. Not just voice over, but being, being a techhead for 20 years, always have a backup plan -- Laya: Always. Anne: -- because things can fail. Connections can fail. I've been noticing recently there's been some conversations about one of the providers not working so well. I've had my days where, you know, things just happen. Like ipDTL is slow or weird or something doesn't connect, or SourceConnect, right? It's just not working the way -- maybe SourceConnect Now. Oh, that's the other one, by the way, they can do playback, probably, SourceConnect Now. Laya: Okay. Anne: So those things, what do you do if one thing doesn't work? You always have to have your backup. And you know, in the heat of the moment when the client is there, and you don't know when you can reschedule that session, you certainly don't want your interface failing. You don't want your Internet network to fail. So if you can have backup points all along the way, meaning what if your microphone, I don't know. All of a sudden your microphone like dies, right? Do you have another microphone? Can you swap it out quickly? Do you have another audio interface? Do you have another network, Internet network, like a backup Internet connection? Those are things that I think as a professional, you need to have those in place. So that during an important session, usually when it's a live directed session, I'm going to say it's probably a pretty important, not that our self-directed sessions aren't important, but when it's a live directed session, there's that added pressure. You've got the client usually on the line or the studio on the line that you're trying to make a good impression. Like, hey, I got this. And you certainly don't want to seem any less than professional or prepared -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- when something bad might happen. So that's my first, my first advice. Laya: I can't agree with you more. And let me just share from experience. Anne: Yes. Laya: First of all, it happens to all of us -- Anne: It does. Laya: -- and we're all human. So just admitting calmly and in control to whoever may be affected -- Anne: Calmly. Laya: -- you know, we're having an issue -- exactly. Oh my God, freaking out, is not the way to go with your clients. But if you can admit, hey, you know what, I'm experiencing something that's unusual right now. Give me just a few minutes. And if we can break for five, I'll get right back to you. Sometimes -- Anne: You are like the epitome of calm. I'm just saying, like the way you just said that, I just love it. I'm not quite sure I could say it so coolly, but you just -- that was awesome. Laya: You know, just give me a moment. Anne: Just a moment. Laya: Get your meditation voice on. No, so to me, I've actually had this happen on two occasions where the power surge has gone out, like a brown-out in the middle of the afternoon for no reason. There's not even -- it's like a rolling blackouts. You know, sometimes, city's done -- that has happened to me once before. And let me tell you, I had a plan and I had a backup. Now I wasn't able to use the Apollo because that's powered, but I have -- Sound Devices has another DAW system that I use. And I was able to use -- my power was backed up -- Anne: Nice. Laya: -- and flipped on a candle. And I was able to conduct a session -- Anne: Careful in the booth with that candle. Laya: Exactly. Right, right. Having a power outage. Anne: Yeah. Laya: I mean, something as crazy as that. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And of course everyone understands, but you know, they may have a lot riding on the session as well, under deadline, with a new client and what have you. So you got to have a backup. Anne: Can I just say that absolutely the power is super important, and you may not even realize until you're live, right, and with a client, your Internet connection failing -- Laya: Yes. Yep. Anne: -- or especially when you're connected wifi. And if you're connected directly to a studio or to a client, it really does help to have that dependable, reliable Internet connection that doesn't have dropouts. Laya: Yep. Anne: And wifi, I'm sorry, guys. I know wifi is convenient and easy and not a lot of people are necessarily technical or know, but it helps to be directly connected -- Laya: Definitely. Anne: -- to your router, to your Internet at all possible costs because that is going to be one less point of failure. So. Laya: Yep, hard-wired in is the way to go for sure. As soon as you can, uh, establish that connection with your studio or with your home Internet, and even upgrade to a business Internet system where you've got more bandwidth, hopefully you, you know, maybe even got fiber in your area. Anne: Sure, yeah. Laya: That's just some key stuff. And that way you can use, if -- as your backup can be your wifi hotspot on your cell phone, if need be. That's happened to me before as well. Anne: Oh yeah, that's always my second. My second Internet connection is my wifi hotspot, which is great to have that Internet connection. Now, what about, okay, mentally, right? Technically, look, you just have to be prepared with backups, and you have to understand hopefully enough to know how to disconnect, reconnect. I always, by the way, if I'm going to finish up on the technical aspect of being prepared, take a picture of your connections into your DAW and you know what I mean? And, and into, into the whole booth, right? Your monitor's connected this way, your microphones are connected here into your audio device. And so take pictures of the back of it -- Laya: Great tip. Anne: -- label your cables and -- Laya: Oh, label my cables, that's absolutely key. Anne: Label your cables. Laya: Label the cable should be like hashtag. Anne: Label the cables. Laya: I love it. Anne: And also, well, computer backup too doesn't it hurt. So always have that second. And I use my travel rig as my backup, right? So I have a laptop, and I've got a different interface, and I've got another microphone at the ready pretty much so that I can go there. And, but if you don't, make sure that you're taking pictures of how things are connected. 'Cause even me being a technical person, you know, in the heat of the moment, you want to make sure that you can react quickly. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So now mentally, I had an experience where I had a live directed session with a very large client. One of the clients that -- a client I've always -- a dream client that I've always wanted to be connected to. And I actually experienced an engineer who was trying to, I don't even know how to say it, was trying to impress the client in his own way and made me do like, I'm going to say, three takes of every single line of a fairly large medical narration project. And it became very stressful for me because every single -- and I didn't know, he had planned on doing three takes of every line, and this what should have been an hour session turned into three and a half hours. And by the time that was done, I was exhausted. And mentally I was really frustrated, and it was starting to affect my performance. So -- Laya: Absolutely. Anne: -- mentally you need to be prepared for that kind of a pressure. And sometimes I say, it's good to have a practice session with somebody. If you've got a close connection, even a voiceover talent that you are -- have an accountability group or something, do some test sessions and have things go wrong, and see how you can react. It does help at least the preparedness or feeling better, because mentally, if your performance is suffering, that's tough. What are your -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- do you have some suggestions, Laya -- Laya: Oh gosh, sure. Anne: -- for mental, you know, how to recover mentally? Laya: Yeah. Well, sure, and again, that happens to everybody also, right? Anne: Yeah. Laya: Even the pros of the pros, the top people -- Anne: Yep. Laya: -- there's always sometimes just somebody in the group that's either trying to establish themselves -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- because they're posturing for whatever reason is going on for them, maybe they haven't had the best day, or they're trying to prove themselves -- Anne: Exactly. Laya: -- in the room. And you know what? You just have to remember, you're the hired gun. Anne: Yep. Laya: You're the hired -- you, you're just there to listen and just take orders -- Anne: Yep. Laya: -- and leave your ego at the door -- Anne: Exactly. Laya: -- and just try to serve them and the copy and the client to the best of your ability. But I have been in that situation several times before, and it really doesn't come down to -- if you can remember, it really is not about your performance. Sometimes it's easy to recognize these people sometimes in a session. Anne: Yep, yep. Laya: You know, first sometimes even taking a step back, there's a lot of people coming at you. And so when I'm in a self-directed session or not a self-directed, but when I'm engineering the session myself, and I'm not connected to a studio, and if I am, sometimes there's a lot of cooks in the kitchen, and there's a lot of people coming at you with all different opinions. Anne: Sure. Laya: And sometimes I'll listen to them all. If it calms down, you know, maybe it's bubbling up for a minute or two -- if it calms down, I'm able to get the focus again. I usually come back and say, okay, so-and-so, so tell me, this is how I thought I heard that. This is my translation of that. But to keep it super clear, moving forward, do you think I can get that direction from just one person? And sometimes it's a reframe, and that sets a neutral tone -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- for all the personalities that are on the phone. Right? Anne: Yeah. Laya: And so, because that can mess with you mentally as well. Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: And so I think establishing that and like re-getting control of the session, that can help when all those personalities are chiming it, or they're asking for multiple retakes, and you're just, you're like, well, but I'm doing it. You know? You start to second guess yourself. Anne: That's the thing that's such an -- I'm glad you brought that up because it's so important when they're asking for a different take. And sometimes the people that are asking for it, they don't know how to ask for it. Laya: Yep. They don't know the language to use. Anne: They don't know the language. Laya: Right? Anne: And hey, sometimes even people that do know the language don't know how to ask for that. And so you have to be very aware that this is something that will happen to you. And at one point, if they're asking you for so many retakes, then your confidence level starts to really fluctuate. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And I like in my head, I'm like, oh my God, did I not give them what they want? Well, I just gave them that. What, how did that not work? Really? And so that sort of conversation that you have in your head, that can really start to affect your performance. My go-to is breathing, just breathe, you know, in through the nose and exhale. I just heard my nose [phonetic]. Laya: Yeah. Anne: Breathing in deeply. And that helps a lot. Laya: Even on top of that shaking, like sometimes it's okay to say, hey, you know what? Anne: I need a minute. Laya: I needed just a moment. If you can take a break for just a few minutes, let me shake it off real quick -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and come right back to you with a fresh set of ears on my own, you know, in my own headphones. Anne: Yup. Laya: And maybe that will help. Anne: Yeah. Laya: 'Cause I want to make sure that you're getting exactly what you want out of this session. Anne: Exactly. Laya: And as long as you continue to put it back on them, but are humble and human enough to say, you know what? I just need a moment. Um, let me get some water, step out for just a second. And I'll be right back with you. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And sometimes that's enough to break up even them in their own headspace. Maybe they didn't even realize that's like a good way to send a signal. Like, you're overdoing it. Anne: Yup. Laya: And the talent needs to regroup. And that's a very professional thing to do. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And it's totally acceptable. Anne: And sometimes, sometimes they'll either say too much or they won't say anything and you'll be like, oh, okay. Or they'll just, you'll do a number of retakes. And then there'll be like, okay. And then you'd be like, oh my God, I didn't give them what they need. That's it. I'm done. They're never hiring me again. That's the other kind of like, self-deprecating language that might happen -- Laya: Oh, for sure. Anne: -- in your head, is like, oh, okay. They didn't react. And so what are they thinking? And so that can make it a little bit scary -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- in your head. So just, you know, for me, I love how, you know, let's take a moment. That always helps me and the breathing, and understand that sometimes you may be giving them exactly what they need, and they're just not responding. Laya: Yeah. Maybe they're distracted. They're something else. Anne: That's right. Laya: They're scrolling on their phone or another email's come through. Anne: That's right. Laya: That can be a challenge -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- when you're working virtually like this, you don't know what the other person is experiencing. Anne: Yeah. Laya: I remember one time recently I was on a call with two producers that were partners in two different states, and they clearly did not gel up. They were neck and neck. Anne: Yup. Laya: One of the producers had her kids screaming in the background. So it's in those moments that you have to kind of quickly empathize and identify where the energy source is and the chaos that may be happening for them. Anne: Sure, absolutely. Laya: Bring the calm to the mic and say, you know, what, what I'm hearing from you is this, what I'm hearing from you is this. Would you agree that it's more like this, and you want -- this is the end result here? And then also, like you said, kind of command the room to the best of your ability. You know? Anne: Yeah. Laya: Sometimes it's easy to say, to get the best performance today and I want to deliver what you want, I'm going to need everybody to mute their microphones, and let me get one source of direction or feedback going. And if they don't give it to you, like you're saying, say, okay, so can I get some feedback? You're welcome to ask the questions. And I think sometimes we forget that we can take control of those sessions. Anne: Yeah. Laya: It's one of the most empowering things to feel when you finally feel confident enough to do so. Anne: And the other thing too is just to know that these things do happen, right? It's so hard to predict what can happen in the booth when you have multiple people, what kind of like -- did you mention -- what kind of day they're having, too many people like that are hearing it differently than their head. Remember that we all hear the copy differently in our heads. The best thing you need to do is try to align that sound to what the client wants, right? And that client can differ. You could have a, I don't know, you could have a one, a marketing director or the, that hears it one way. And you could have a producer that hears it a different way. And as you mentioned, the two are clashing, and they might be at the same time directing you or even not. Let's say you've done the session. And then they come back and ask you for something different. So understand that that's absolutely something that can happen. And it has nothing to do with your performance. Laya: Right. Anne: And you could have given them exactly what they asked for. And a lot of times, I say this all the time, the way that you got the job is not always the way that you'll be directed to do the job once called upon to do it. Laya: So much so. Anne: Right? Laya: Right? That happens all the time. Anne: Because you have a different director, you have a different set of ears, and you have somebody that hears it differently directing you. So it is always very subjective to the person that is directing. And also, I'm just going to say, if you get the check, that's it. Consider it an amazing day. Laya: Yep. Anne: Consider you've given the client what they've wanted. It may not be what you agree or think is the way it should be. Right? But you've given the client what they wanted. And that's the most important thing. Laya: Yeah. And I would say that the -- in the end, no matter how the session goes, I always like to close with a big thank you. Thank you. I -- first of all -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- I write, and I forgot to say this in the very beginning, but I've always got a notepad with me. As people are making their introductions, I always write down everyone's name so that I -- Anne: Good idea. Laya: -- call of them by name throughout the session, to the best of my ability I can call the director or the producer, whoever's calling the shots by their name, repeat their names again and again so they know that you're very focused on who you're dealing with, even though you're not in the same space. Anne: Sure. Laya: And then at the end close by being, you know, thank you very much for having me. I'm so proud that you selected me for this project. I really hope to have the opportunity to work with you again in the future. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: Good luck on your project and thanks again. Anne: And bam. Laya: And then I think the engineer, if there is one and, you know, wrap it in a nice bow -- Anne: Yep, yep. Laya: -- so they know no matter what, you left with a big smile -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- and very grateful for their time -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- and for selecting you. And then, you know, maybe they'll remember, you know, it, wasn't just an awkward, like, okay, thanks. Thanks, guys. Bye. Anne: Yeah. End it professionally gracefully, and you know, again, it's one of those things, then don't stay too long either at the very end. Laya: No, yeah. Anne: Don't expect -- there should be nothing, except thank you. It was a pleasure working with you and good luck with the project. They do not owe you anything else. They don't owe you praise. They don't owe you, hey, well, you know, we'll contact you for the next job. They owe you nothing -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- because that is a job. And ultimately, if you've done it to their satisfaction, you'll get paid for it. And so don't be, don't be emotionally affected by any of it at the end. Just close it warmly with a nice little bow. I like that. Wrap it up with a bow and onto the next one. Laya: Yep. And I would say the other thing, and I've -- I made this mistake early on. I realized very quickly it was inappropriate, but the end of the session is not a good time to say, hey, I'd love a copy of that spot when you're done. Anne: Yeah. Oh gosh. Yes, yes, exactly. Laya: Unless you really know the person -- Anne: Good point. Laya: -- or like, it's just, you one-on-one, I'd love to see what you come up with. You know, when this is thing is done. Anne: Yep. Laya: If it's not that easy and comfortable, that is not the time to be asking for anything. Just bow out gracefully. Anne: I totally agree with you right there. Totally. That makes you look a little bit, I don't know, desperate, maybe? Laya: Hungry. Yeah, a little hungry. Anne: And I would say it's a good opportunity for you maybe a month or two down the road when you know the spot's been released to maybe reconnect and then say, hey, thanks so much. Just wanted to say it was a wonderful opportunity. And by the way, if, at that point, if, hey, if you wouldn't mind, is there a way that I might be able to see the finished product? I love it when engineers and producers send me the -- that's the best when they send it to me when it's done. And I'm like, oh my God, like too few people do that. Laya: Yeah. I wish they knew how valuable that was, that currency is. Anne: Yeah. Laya: You know? Anne: I have a couple of really awesome producers that I work with who will just send me the spot, like on, I don't have to ask for it. They send me the spot when it's done. And I'm like, oh, this is so awesome. So that gives you that permission to share it. And just, it's just a good thing to see your finished product. But -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- yeah. Laya: And I would like to mention too, that part of that follow-up process, only when appropriate -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- but it helps to write down those names because a -- Anne: Sure. Laya; -- few weeks later, or even a few days later, in some instances -- you got to feel it out and trust your gut -- if it was appropriate for you to make contact, meaning your agent didn't book that for you -- Anne: Right. Laya: -- and there's not a middleman or anything like that -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- having their name or their studio affiliation, it'll at least allow you to find them or follow their studio on Instagram. Sometimes we are given the name of the studio or their production company that's working with it or the agency that's creating the piece -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- not necessarily the client. Great time to make a followup connection, be it LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTube, and follow their work, continue to champion them and cheer them on. Anne: Yes. Laya: Or just drop them a line on LinkedIn and say, hey, I had a great session with you last week. Just wanted to say and take care of yourself. Hope all is well. Anne: Yes. Laya: I look forward to keeping an eye on your creative output, you know, in the months to come or something like that. It's a great way to follow that up too. Anne: Excellent point about if you get this work through an agent, and I just want to reiterate this, if you get work through your agent, I strongly recommend reconnecting with your agent first, before. Laya: Yes. Anne: Like don't connect the client directly -- Laya: No. Anne: -- connect to the client directly after the job or at any point, really, if it came through your agent, because that's a relationship that that agent has worked probably for a number of days, months, years, whatever, to connect and to secure. And you don't want to just kind of go in between that. So handle that professionally. Always go through your agent if the agent is the one that set that up for, if you have any questions or if you want to connect or say, do you think it would be okay if I sent them a thank you or ask for a copy of it? So excellent point. Wow. It was a great discussion today, Laya. Laya: Yeah, love these BOSSes in the booth. Anne: BOSSes in the booth. Laya: I know our listeners are going to be able to take control of those situations -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- because all of them can crop up. But in this day, this modern times, you really need to wear multiple hats -- Anne: That's right. Laya: -- in the booth. And that comes down to client relations, to engineering, to tack -- Anne: Yep. Laya: -- to being your actor, your best performance self, all those things with eloquence and grace, and then you'll win. Anne: There you go. Laya: You know, you'll be the BOSS in the booth. Anne: Modern BOSSes in the booth. All right, I'm going to give a great, big shout-out to my modern connectivity -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- through ipDTL, our sponsor. We love them. Thank you so much, ipDTL, for always connecting me with BOSSes like Laya. You too can be a BOSS connected ipDTL person. Find out more at ipdtl.com. All right, guys, have an amazing week. Laya: Thanks, everybody. Anne: We'll see you next week. Bye. Laya: Bye-bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Think you need an agent to master the casting game? Think again. Anne and Laya teach you how to make the most of your VO business by building relationships that will land bookings and get you paid. They discuss pay-2-play strategies, symbiotic agent-talent relationships, reaching out to production houses, and how cultivating your SEO can get you jobs without auditioning... Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, along with my special, special guest cohost Laya Hoffman. Laya -- Laya: Hey. Anne: -- how are you? Laya: Anne, I'm doing awesome. How are you? Anne: You know, Laya, I'm awesome. And I just love, love, love doing these podcast episodes with you. Laya: Yes, same here. I've learned so much. I feel like -- Anne: Me too. Laya: -- we've shared so much, and the feedback we've been getting from your BOSSes has been incredible. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: So thank you, BOSSes, for leaning in and coming back to us with your takeaways and your modern mindsets. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: Because the whole thing has come full circle. I feel so rewarded and so grateful for this. Anne: That's right. Well, Laya and I have really been enjoying our topics of late. And I think they're very relevant. They're very relevant in terms of BOSSes wanting growth mindset for growing their businesses, growing themselves personally, growing their performances. So now let's talk about once we've been growing our skills and our assets, how are we going to get work? Laya: Yes. Anne: Let's talk about how do we get cast in these roles? How do we win these gigs? There's all sorts of wonderful things to talk about with that agents, production, houses, managers pay-to-plays, all of these things. Maybe we should just, let's have a discussion on how are we going to be getting work. Laya: Yes, it's such a good one to have, because I think if you're just now coming up in the industry, you feel like, oh, I, the first thing I got to do is I got to get an agent. That was my misconception in the very beginning, to be honest. And you know, once you've been around a little while, you realize that's nowhere near your first step. In fact, doing the work and training and getting yourself conditioned is by far the first step. And then you slowly build on that as we have talked about, and you know very well with your asset library, your image, your brand, so that when you are fully ready, and I mean fully ready, meaning you're booking and you're making money and you can present yourself as a resource, then you're going to maybe approach agents or managers. But until then, there's a lot of work to do. And there's definitely outlets to go get that work. Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: So let's talk about it. Lead us in. Anne: Well, yeah. I am going to agree with you that yes, I, in the beginning I thought, oh, I need an agent right away. And that is absolutely not necessarily true at all. As a matter of fact, you have to usually prove that you've gotten some work under your belt before an agent will consider you. Laya: Absolutely. Anne: But I remember thinking, okay, so I got my demo. Now I need an agent. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So a lot of times that is something that can be put on the back burner until you, you know, assert yourself, go out there and get some work. But until you do that, you got to get that work. So how are you going to do that? Laya: Yeah. Anne: And by the way, I'll tell you that I was working full-time for years before I got my first agent. So. Laya: Yes. And I was working in the same space. You know, I was definitely making money in voice work. And I thought the agent thing was going to tip me over the balance. And that's when I knew I was going to be successful. When the reality is I book very little work through my main agents, or at least I did in the very beginning. And so you lose sight of that when you're not quite there, you feel like maybe that's going to be the cash out or the pinnacle, or that's where you want to achieve. But there's a lot of work to glean without an agent too. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: And I think that's kind of where the paradigm or the shift is in the industry right now. And while a lot of the cream, you know, at the top goes to the agents or the managers, there's lots of great work out there that you can get by cultivating relationships with clients, putting yourselves out there, marketing, you know, dipping into pay-to-plays, if that's your thing. So let's dig in. Anne: So, I will say that when I started, and this is back in the day, pay-to-plays were not the same 'cause I've been in the industry for a few years now. So back when pay-to-plays first started, and I believe it was Voice123 that was the very first one, if I can remember correctly. Before that, there was kind of like freelancer.com where people would post jobs. But I think the very first pay-to-play was Voice123, which I hopped on. I was on board when they came on board, and it was actually something that was successful for me. And -- but the landscape of the pay-to-plays has changed quite a bit over the years, but that was my main source, that and other like freelance websites to get my first jobs. And as I kind of struggled and, you know, found my way through the industry, the pay-to-plays started to become a place where I could actually get clients that would become return clients. And that was super helpful to me. So I think these days, it's probably important that maybe you can dabble in the pay-to-plays, see if they work for you. Sometimes, you know, they're so congested right now that I feel that it's really that much more difficult to get work from them. However, some people are very successful at it, depending I think on the level that you're paying for. I don't think it's always necessary to get work just through the pay-to-plays, but I feel like it might be very frustrating for people just starting in the industry. Laya: Yeah. Anne: What about you? What do you think? Laya: Well, I've got a lot of information to glean on this because as we've talked about before, you know, I was, I've been doing voice work for over 20 years, but never full-time and never really taking it "seriously" until I went full-time about three years ago and ripped the band-aid off. And so my start was non-traditional in the sense that, you know, I didn't spend this long amount of time cultivating anything with training and whatnot. And so I have been a Voice123 member since 2009, I think, but I didn't optimize a profile or anything like that. I did however, dive right in and get a membership when I first went official full-time a couple of years ago, and I used it as an -- I hate to say it like this now, but it's true -- I kind of used it as a practice tool. I would never recommend that. So I can't believe I'm admitting it, but in all, you know, full disclosure, like, I didn't know what different scripts were out there. I didn't know how to play in different genres or where my voice sat best. I didn't really have an understanding. So to me, a lot of people say, don't do that because you're putting your name out there. You never know who you're going to come across, and they're going to be like, oh gosh, no, the audio is terrible, whatever. I did it because I needed to know for myself what felt right. And in doing that, it kind of opened up a lot of opportunities, a lot of ideas and a lot of awareness about myself. So for me, I probably didn't take the traditional route. And I know we could, we're going to dive into a full, deep scope of pay-to-plays at one point. Anne: We will. Laya: Today might not be the day, but just to touch on that, it is an okay place to start if you just want to see what's out there and what kind of jobs are being offered -- Anne: Right, right, agreed. Laya: -- and what kind of scripts and maybe what kind of budgets are out there. So. Anne: Well, let me admit something -- Laya: Please. Anne: -- Laya. Laya: I'm leaning in. Anne: I used it as a practice ground too. Laya: See, I'm not alone. Anne: Back in the -- see. So back in the day, like it's very true what you just said. So if you've not been in the voiceover industry, it's really hard to know like what kind of jobs are out there? What does a typical script look like? If there is such a thing. Laya: What does usage look like? Like what are they saying about it? Anne: Exactly. Laya: What's the language? Anne: What do I even, where do I even begin? Laya: Right. Anne: And so in reality it was, for me, it was a good education. Now I was also fortunate enough to book back in the day, because again, it wasn't as congested. And I also used it to kind of, oh, and I will admit this to kind of, 'cause there was no middleman back in the day -- Laya: Yeah, right. Anne: -- I was able to kind of scope it for companies that were hiring. And so I knew if there was a company that put out an audition for a corporate job or a telephony job, I would write that company name down and be on my list of things to kind of investigate. And a few months later I'd kind of put that company on my list of maybe people to contact later on. Laya: Yeah. Anne: But it really was a -- and there was no, there was nothing bad about doing that by the way. But I believe that's why there are some restrictions now on certain pay-to-plays where you can't communicate with your potential client, which, I don't think is right, to be honest with you. Laya: No. Anne: I think that they shouldn't be able to communicate so that you can get the job done. And the quality of the job is what's important. Laya: And there are some work arounds, but we'll dive into that. Anne: But that's what I'll say right now about pay-to-plays. Laya: Yeah, yeah. Anne: So I don't think it's the horrible taboo. I think that it's a very valid reason so that you kind of understand, like what does the work look like out here in the voiceover industry? So let's talk about, we kind of dabbled just a little bit with agents. And like I said, it took me four years to get an agent. So I had gotten some work under my belt. At that time I felt comfortable submitting for agents. Remember this is, you know, 10, 10 or so years ago, and now -- Laya: It's very much, it did change. Anne: It has changed now. Laya: Like super aggressive. Right? Anne: Now you really kind of need to have a referral -- Laya: Definitely. Anne: -- to get yourself your agent and to get yourself into there. So at the time I was able to submit, but then I grew into having other people that also had that agent. I would talk to them about it. And I would, then I would just basically ask if I could refer their name and say that so-and-so told me about your agency. And I'm really excited. I really think your agency is amazing, and I'm hoping that I might be a fit for you. Laya: Right. Anne: And so that was just one way to kind of use that, that networking relationship to my advantage. Laya: I did something similar as well. Um, I was working with engineers that I admired and had a great symbiotic relationship with, and they made recommendations to agents that they traditionally cast with. So I was lucky in that sense. And then I did do some cold kind of call reach outs, email contact to some other agents that I knew that were very reputable, that were in regional markets that may have something interesting to offer, and that I could be a resource to them, of course, doing my research first, making sure there was a fit on their roster that I could fill with a unique approach or sound or skill set. And that's kind of hard to do, but also in a way it's kind of transparent. A lot of agents, uh, have their entire rosters up. And so not only do you want to make sure that you're a good fit and you're going to be a great resource for them, but that they're a great fit for you. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: You want that agent to be excited about you because unfortunately there is such a saturation right now. Maybe it's been like this a while, but with talent and with agents, and because of pay-to-plays, the opportunities have gotten spread thin. Anne: Very, very. Laya: So you, you know, where I cast this huge net at first and had lots of regional agents and was looking to have my hand in a little bit of everything, I found very quickly that that spread me thin as well. And as the auditions were overlapping, I would start to panic. Who do I give this to? You know? And then that created lack of trust and didn't create a solid foundation or relationship with those agents, because I was just sporadically submitting. And so that's a whole other thing to consider too. Anne: That's a, that's an excellent point. I will say that in the height of my getting agents, I landed myself 11 of them. And over the years, right, those agents, like you said, sometimes, I mean the workplace and the environment, has really just changed so much, even in just the last couple of years, that the work is even getting spread thin. So sometimes you will see some of the same auditions. And I realized just as you mentioned, I realized from my own self, I didn't have the time to respond to all of the agent auditions. And so I found myself kind of gravitating towards just a couple of them that I consider to be my home base and agents that, you know, we worked well together. So there's something to be said that it's not just a one-way relationship. Laya: Oh, no. Anne: It really is a two-way relationship with you and your agents, so fine tuning that and honing in on those agents, that works well for both of you, I think that's very, very important in order to really maximize your casting opportunities. Laya: For, sure. I mean, if you're a talent on a roster with 3, 4, 600 other talents, and I feel like some times there're, you know, talents getting gobbled up and it's, it's more of a numbers game for the agent and verse -- and vice versa for the talent. Um, and when the reality is just like our friendships and our personal relationships, if you can nurture them and stay true and be loyal and be consistent, they're going to know that, see that, respect that in return. And you're going to be more top of mind to that agent. Whereas if you're just sporadically hitting -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- you know, alternating between them, because you're trying to really widen your net, it's actually going to water you down, and that's going to water your name, your brand, and your voice down and the opportunities. So I also streamlined this past year in order to be fair to them in my partnership and my word and myself. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: So that's very important and something to consider. Anne: And so agents, I think, for a lot of people, you have to really step back and understand your agent and their specialty. Every agent has a specialty. A lot of agents will work in the commercial broadcast around, but then there are other agents who do radio imaging. There's other agents that do animation and then other agents that specialize in promo. So knowing your agent and their specialties and what type of work you are going for or looking for, trying to get, that's important, because almost as important for me, for my genres that I book work in is not just the agents, but also casting, right? Laya: Yeah. Anne: Casting agencies, production houses, being on the roster on production houses and maintaining a great relationship with those people has gotten me repeat work over and over and over again. Laya: Absolutely. Anne: And I cannot stress the importance of the connection that you have with production houses and the relationship because they're submitting for you. It's almost like having an agent, right, that doesn't necessarily send out an audition, but they have clients who come to them and say, hey, I've got a medical narration or an automotive narration or any kind of corporate thing, and this is what I'm looking for. And they're the ones that will be sending out your demos or whatever it is, your past work to kind of promote you to their clients. And then basically I would just get a call that says, hey, are you available next week for this job? Laya: Yeah. Anne: Oh my gosh. That's like the best way to get a job. Hey, are you available? Laya: The best way. Anne: You've been hired already. Laya: No audition needed. Exactly. And I got to say, I'm so glad you spoke about this because production houses are so fundamental. They are -- Anne: Yeah, they are. Laya: You know, sometimes they're using agents. Sometimes they're using managers, but sometimes they've got their own in-house team. Anne: Yup, exactly. Laya: And it's just like everybody's got to make money in this together, yes, they may be selling your voice or the voiceover element of the product at a higher fee, but maybe there's a consistent, flat rate. They tend to make your job much easier because you may not have to audition, or they've already got the engineer built in, or they already know your studio specs, your voice, your sound, et cetera. For instance, I'm an in-house talent on Pandora's and Sirius XM's roster. Shout-out to that whole incredible team -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- of audio slayers over there. Because as I've gotten to know them over the last few years, they know my voice, they just cast you -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- where they know that your voice is going to sit right so they've got the best output and you're going to give them the best output. It's a trust relationship. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: It is so valuable. And while sometimes the rate can be a little bit lower than your standard GVAA, you know, industry rate that you might just be putting out there for usage, the repetition and the ease of work -- Anne: And volume. Laya: -- and the volume is huge. And that should not be overlooked or turned your nose up at. It's again, very, very beneficial for all parties. Anne: I have been on a couple of rosters for over 10 years already. And it's just, there's so much to be said for just, oh, by the way, are you available for this job? Laya: Yes. Anne: And it's the same kind of thing with repeat clients who just come back to you over and over again, where you don't have to audition. I just had, again, I've got work this weekend. I had somebody email me say, and I haven't heard from them in years, but they're like, hey, are you available to do this job? And I'm like, well, hey, yeah, it's great to hear from you again. I love it. And one thing I'll also say outside of the production houses and casting houses is to also, and this is not necessarily a mass casting, but your website and your SEO of your business can also help to cast yourself without an audition. Laya: Sure can. Anne: So I'll get a lot of people who will just send me an email inquiry and say, here's my script. How much will that cost? Laya: Yup. Anne: And the cool thing again is that I don't have to audition for that. So what I love is that type of casting. So. Laya: Yeah, and that happens for me as well, not as often as I would like. I'm sure your SEO is very robust, Anne. Anne: I've been at it for a while. Laya: I have a feeling. Exactly. But that does happen. And I think that, you know, what's really a blessing is that that shows that your work or that your body of work or that your presence is definitely garnering some attention. Now we can dive much deeper in how to make that even more attractive or build the SEO. And that's for another episode -- Anne: Yup, absolutely. Laya: But what's so great is that there are so many different buckets. Anne: Yup. Laya: In addition to those production houses, your own website, pay-to-plays, agents, we can also talk about, a little bit about the manager model, which is not new, certainly not in VO or in acting. It's evolved to kind of fit the new VO landscape and how work is coming in. I have enjoyed a recent success, a series of successes with ACM, the team over there, Mark Guss and the whole crew has been incredibly beneficial for me. But that manager model is very different as well. Anne: Yup. Laya: Now, for those that aren't aware where the agent is, usually if you're cast for something union or non-union has usually a different percentage that the agent gets paid. And that varies depending on whether you're union status or not -- Anne: Correct. Laya: -- or whether the casting house, the production company is paying over base, which again, another conversation. Now managers model is where they do acquire 10% or there's a percentage of your entire work picture, whether you book or not. And so that's definitely something to consider for those that are maybe way, you know, into their career or advancing or looking to level up from an agency model or add to their agency model. It's definitely not for everybody. I have had some great success with it, but it's again about nurturing those relationships and making sure you're giving as much as they're receiving and vice versa. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And in order for the whole relationship to work, it has to be, I want to say, almost 50, 50, right? You have to work with them -- Laya: Absolutely. Anne: -- as much as they have to work with you because you're giving 10% of the entire income that's coming in. I think that they work harder for you in terms of getting you work from various agents that they're working with. Or if they're, I would say clients that they're working with. Laya: Yeah. I will say this. And I, people ask me all the time, how has it been, you know, you shifted and you know, what are you getting out of it? I don't know, it's just a lot, you know, it seems like a big investment, and it is. But I will say this, like in the first month of being with ACM and this may not be the case for everyone, but I had more communication and opportunities and direct one-on-one communication. There's eight managers on my team over there. I had more communication in that one month than I did in three years with nine agents combined. So to me, the value was there, but it was also in part by me putting the effort in and making it a point to connect with everyone and to set meetings and to have that influence in my business because I'm paying for it. Anne: Well -- Laya: It's a mutual investment. Anne: And that's the thing, if you're -- okay. So here, if you look at it from a business standpoint, right? Why the manager model should work, right? If it didn't work, if you were not getting a lot out of your relationship, right, if you weren't getting a lot of opportunities, if you weren't booking, you wouldn't be happy with the management, right? Because you'd be paying, right, for all the work that you did. Laya: You'd demand more. Sure. Anne: That doesn't necessarily look good or sound good for the manager, and the manager, for them to keep their brand, right, and that they're a successful manager, right, they don't want to have an unhappy person. So the relationship, I think, has to be working both ways, and -- Laya: And I think that can happen there. Anne: -- you have to make money for them, they make money for you. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So. Laya: And same goes for the agents. And same goes -- a lot of people say, well, you would pay that. Or would you pay a membership fee on pay-to-plays -- like, everybody's got to make money -- Anne: Right. Laya: -- and can make money in this business. Anne: Exactly. Laya: It just has to become down to what investment is worth your while. Anne: Right. Laya: Is it working with a production house where your overall total fee is lower -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- but you have the volume and the repetition and the ease of work? Or is it investing in a management company where you have opportunities like you've never seen before? Anne: Right. Laya: Or is it an agency model? Anne: Yeah. Laya: I mean, all of those things I think can work for you, as long as you do the work, and you present yourself fully to that partnership and being very aware of everybody's role, and set your expectation too -- Anne: Right, right. Laya: -- as to what they can or cannot do for you. Anne: And just like in any relationship, if it doesn't work for you -- this is including managers, agents, pay-to-plays, even a client -- Laya: Production houses, clients, exactly. Anne: If that relationship does not work for you, then you have the opportunity -- which is what I love. We're entrepreneurs. We are our own business. We can absolutely step away from that, which is -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- what is it, is that, that's the whole beauty of being an entrepreneur, right? We don't have to work -- Laya: Yeah, you're in control. Exactly. Anne: We are in control. We don't have to work with a client that is not necessarily giving us a positive investment, right? Laya: Yeah. Anne: Or is working for us. So that's what the really wonderful thing is. And no matter how you go out there to get your opportunities -- and I think it's always, for me, it's, it can't just be one. Laya: No. Anne: Can't put all your eggs in one basket, right? It's a combination. I have agents, I have production houses. I have relationships with my clients. I have a good SEO on my website. And I have, I'm literally trying to provide myself with the best opportunities in order to be cast so that I can be a successful voiceover business. Laya: Yeah, that's right, Anne. And even if you're -- I would just say this too. I know there's a lot of scrutiny about every one of these avenues, right? And it's really all in how you use it to your advantage, and what your mindset is, and whether or not you're good with where your role is. I would say with pay-to-plays a lot of times, just having a presence on those pay-to-play sites, whether you're active or not, their SEO is going to be far greater than most of our -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- far greater than any of us can most -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- likely invest in our own SEO resources. Anne: Yeah. Laya: So even just to have your name and your demos up -- Anne: A profile. Laya: -- a profile, that in itself, I can't tell you how many opportunities I've gotten by just being on Voices or Voice123, by someone that found -- Anne: Having the profile. Laya: Exactly. Anne: Exactly. Laya: Because that drove me as a talent with a profile on a huge databank where people that are casting are looking for the quick solution. They find somebody they like, then they Google your name. Then they go to your website and they reach out to you. And I have gotten more jobs like that than probably any other avenue combined, to be honest with you. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: And it hasn't even needed to be an audition or fight about usage, et cetera, and these low rates of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. No, just let it work for you and be the driver that you need to get your name and your voice out there. Anne: Right. And however it works for you -- and to be honest with you, I actually -- not even do I have a profile on some of these pay-to-plays that I'm not necessarily active on, but I've also shared blog posts, meaning I have invited them to be a guest blogger on my blog. Laya: Great idea. Anne: So we have backlinks to one another. So it's kind of a really interesting way, but it kind of is like you're talking with a pay-to-plays. They do kind of have the SEO game going on with those terms that people might be searching for. And so that might make you think, whether you agree or not, to maybe just put a profile up there. Doesn't mean, you know, right now I'm personally just don't have -- I think I belong to two of them officially, but I don't have any time to necessarily audition. I don't remember the last time I've auditioned for a pay-to-play. Laya: Sure. Anne: But I also have pay-to-plays that I'm not a member of, but I do have a profile on. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So it all works towards people knowing who I am, what kind of business -- you know, it's all about who are you and what do you do for a living? Oh, she's a voiceover artist. I'm looking for one of those. Laya: Yes. Anne: So that all kind of plays into the game of getting that work, which is what we're supposed to do. That's our business. Laya: Yeah. Anne: Right? Getting that work. Laya: And I would say one more thing about just where to get work and how do you start, especially if you're in the startup or the bootstrapping stage of your BOSS business. You know, just letting everyone you know, know that you're down, down to talk down to, you know, do their work, do their IVR, do their phone system, voice their scratch track. Sometimes getting in with production houses is just as easy as saying, hey, no charge. I'm here to do your scratch tracks for you. You know, just so we can start building relationship. You can get to know my style and then potentially cast me in the future for something, but sometimes just letting people know what you do and what you're about. We often talk about how to use social, and Facebook for me, isn't necessarily a business driver. Anne: Right. Laya: But you bet that everybody I in my network knows that I talk for a living. Anne: Sure, absolutely. Laya: Because you never know when the opportunity is going to come up -- Anne: Even in your personal network. Laya: -- for something that they need absolutely. So don't overlook that. Anne: Yeah. And even if you say, well, I don't really advertise on my personal, right, or my Facebook or my social media, in reality, just you being you is -- because remember our brands are so personal -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: --- that you are an aspect of your business. I just wrote a blog on that. You know, it's something to always consider when you say put pen to paper or type to the post, always consider that, you know, there are eyeballs looking at that, and knowing that you are a voiceover artist, and this is what you do for a living. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So the more people that know, right, this is what you do, the more opportunities you will have. And so great, great discussion on how to get work and how to be known to agents, pay-to-plays, managers, production houses. Good stuff. Laya: Yeah. Thank you, Anne. This was super informative. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with me as well. Anne: Great, big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network like a BOSS and find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, be productive. Go get cast and have an amazing week. We'll talk to you next week. Laya: Take care. Bye-bye. Anne: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Bosses, your time is money. Don’t waste a second of it! Anne + Laya dive deep into all the things that keep their businesses on track every day. From adding personal time to the calendar to automating follow up emails, you’ll want to try it all. Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, along with the amazing, happy new year, very special guest cohost Laya Hoffman. Laya, yay! Laya: Hey Anne, happy new year. Anne: Happy new year to you. How are you, Laya? Laya: Did you rock it? I'm great. I'm like ready to seize this year. Anne: Did I rock it? Like every new year's -- Laya: Did you rock it? Anne: I'm getting older now, so it's harder and harder. Laya: It's slower rocking. Anne: It's slower rocking for me, but you know what? I celebrate it just as much, however, I may not be awake exactly. Laya: Yeah. I mean, well, it's funny. I used to run nightclubs for a living, and so New Year's Eve was the biggest thing that we did all year long. And I can't even tell you the planning and the hours awake that I stayed. Anne: Oh, I can imagine. Laya: It's probably not something I would admit publicly. And here I am, but now I'm like to me, a rocking new year is in bed by 10. Anne: And you were probably the thing about that is you were probably working at the stroke of midnight. Laya: Oh working, oh, for sure. I was, I was on stage commanding the audience, doing the thing popped in the balloons. Oh yeah. The whole nine yards. Anne: The whole nine yards. Laya: These days, my rocket new year is much more low key. Yeah. Anne: And it got very confusing when my husband and I moved from the east coast to the west coast. Cause now we're like, well, okay, can we celebrate it at 9:00? Laya: Yes, you can. Yes, you can. Because the ball drops at 9:00. Absolutely. Anne: The ball drops at 9:00 out here. Laya: Yes, it does. Anne: And I still get confused. I don't know. We've been out here forever and I still get confused, but anyway. Laya: You can do it. You can do it. Anne: We go on. Laya: I say so. Anne: We go on. Laya: We go on to a better, brighter year, hopefully. Anne: That's right. Laya: Because gosh, I mean, we've had some success. We talked about this in the last episode. Anne: Yeah. Laya: There was a lot to look back on last year as being positive, and with this new growth mindset, we're walking into the new year, but we've got some good -- Anne: We've got work to do. Laya: -- ideas to share. Yes, we do. Anne: That's right. Laya: And we have to make this year the best yet. Anne: Yeah. So with all this work that we've already kind of like, here's what we want to do for our new year -- and of course, you know, over the actual time that you've had to think if you've had some time off, you might've come up with some more things that maybe you want to do for this new year, get yourself pumped up. So I think it's a great time to talk about, oh, how can I get this all organized? How can I be more productive with my time? Because I had a lot to do last year. And if I want to continue those, if I want to continue my brand and my parallel income streams, I still have a lot to do this year. So I want to know how can I do that more productively? Laya: That is a great question. I'm asking myself that all the time, but as a Virgo, A-typical personality, super organized and a little OCD, I think that for me, it starts with a bit of a daily checklist. And I mean, I don't always stick to it, but at least it's in my framework of which buckets of the business can I dip into and touch a little bit every day? So that's where my productivity window starts. How about you? Anne: Well, okay. So yeah, old school, old school, I have a to-do list. Laya: Your pen and paper. Anne: Yes, my pen and paper. And because I have to continue to make sure that I can actually write with a pen. It's interesting because when I write checks now like hand write checks, it's -- Laya: Oh yeah, your signature is all crazy. Anne: Yeah! Laya: Calligraphy is off. Anne: My calligraphy is off. Laya: Yeah. Anne: I feel like the pen doesn't fit right in my hand anymore. Laya: Yeah, isn't that crazy? Anne: And that's with my to-do list. I'm constantly scratching on my to-do list. And literally I have saved my to-do list for the past five years. And they're just these little, I have these wonderful, thin notebooks that I love to write in, lined. And I basically every single day, actually the night before, this is what helps me, I write down what I want to accomplish the next day or what I need to do for the next day. Laya: Love that. Anne: It doesn't always get crossed off because sometimes those tasks are, you know, multiple day tasks. But for me, what I love is, and I, and I remember you telling me, you like to cross those things off. I mean, that is like a -- Laya: I do. Anne: -- it's like a feel-good, I'm done, cross it off. I like that. I check beside it because I like to be able to see what I've done throughout the year. I still use that as kind of a checkpoint, but I also like to flip the page, right? To a new day, a clean -- Laya: A new day. Anne: -- slate. Laya: A clean slate. Absolutely. Anne: A clean slate, absolutely. And I make sure that that is the first thing that I do. Plus as I'm telling you, I'm getting a little older, my brain doesn't always remember everything that I have to do. Laya: Sure. Anne: So writing it down really helps cement this is what I have to do. It helps remind me of what I have to do. And the check mark is like so satisfying. Laya: Yes, it is. Well, speaking of that check mark, I actually have something maybe we are able to share with the BOSSes, like the actual document, but I created a VO business daily checklist for myself that is in those buckets. It has a few things. The buckets are, what do I do in my voice work? it's warm up stretch, vocalize, then all the way down the list into check emails, record and edit and deliver jobs, file all the work, you know, digital folders, et cetera, and make sure that -- Anne: Write the invoices. Laya: -- it's not all cluttered on the -- yes, the invoices, all of that. Then there's a bucket for business development. Then there's one for social, like stay active, but -- Anne: Love it. Laya: -- don't waste time here. That's a huge asterisk next to everything. Learn something new is another bucket and health and wellness is a bucket -- Anne: Nice. Laya: -- as we've talked about a lot before, so maybe I'll polish this thing up, and we can share it with our BOSSes. Anne: Yes, that sounds amazing. Laya: It's helpful. It's equal parts -- I print them out. I have it digitally, but then I can check them off and start a new page when everything's accomplished. Helps my mind stay focused and stay productive. Anne: Well, you know, what's really nice too, is if any of you guys are Mac users, the Notes, just the simple Notes application works great. You can create a checklist. Laya: Yes, it does. Anne: Yup. And what I love about it is you can check those things off and then you can see it nicely and neatly checked off. So if you aren't enthralled with your handwriting. Laya: No handwriting required. Anne: No handwriting required for the Notes version. And yeah, I think that that for me is the number one thing that helps me stay organized and be productive. And I'm going to talk a little bit about, 'cause you mentioned it, social media. I literally cannot have a social media window open when I am trying to be productive. I just -- Laya: Nope, nope, no notifications either for me. Anne: -- can't. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And even though I say to myself, I am advertising on social media, right? 'Cause I have events through my VO Peeps and my VO BOSS episodes I'm posting out there, and I want to make sure that I'm responding and engaging with the community. I cannot have the windows open for LinkedIn, for Facebook, for Instagram, for anything, if I'm trying to get something done. So I make sure that I have specific times during the day that I will open them up and check and then respond. Laya: Yes. I actually agree with that. And here's a tip for BOSSes. I use my social media, meaning Instagram and Facebook, the real, you know, schleppy social media channels, but are equally as important. I only check those in the morning over coffee, 8:00, 9:00. And then again in the evening, 5:00, 6:00. The reason I do is because those are peak times for engagement. And so if you are going to post, and people are going to engage, the chance of them seeing it is higher in those time points -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- as opposed to you posting it 2:00 in the afternoon or 9:00 at night. So those are great windows of opportunity for exposure and to compartmentalize. And then I check LinkedIn at lunchtime because that's when my business colleagues and people are most active on LinkedIn is straight in the middle of their day. It's going to trickle out on its own time, as we know about all these platforms. But for me, that's where I compartmentalize that time to make sure that I don't stay off. I'm not great at it, but that's where I like to stay. Anne: And I think it's been, I think that those specific times are really good. And you know, it's been an adjustment, I will say, because I know that people were more used to me being like immediately engaging on social media. And I know the past couple of years, I just cannot be immediately there to respond or comment when things come in, and it's okay. I've had to kind of be okay with that myself to not be as available out there. And I've always like stressed and worried. Well, if I don't respond, will I lose my audience? Laya: Oh gosh. Anne: But I think that that has been one of those things that I have had to really try to test out and see, okay, how many times do I need to revisit and engage with my audience before they figure, oh, this is just, nobody's really here. And I do know that I have certain social media avenues where people think I'm not there, and that I'm a robot. And that has been something that I've been really consciously trying to test out and rectify and figure out what is the -- is there a magical formula for when and how often I should revisit that? So that has been the last couple of years, it has been a definite like test on my part, and I've realized that I don't have to be there. And in reality, I think the way social media has gotten in the past where it's been a little more toxic, a little more frustrating, there are more people who are taking time off from social media. And it's a little more accepted that -- Laya: Oh, it's beyond accepted. Anne: -- I'm not there. Laya: And let me give you a perspective flip on the mindset of that. If I see somebody that's constantly on social media, like throughout the day, the first thing I think of is they're not busy in their work. Anne: Oh my goodness, yes. Laya: They're not successful because they're -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- wasting their time here if -- they wouldn't be here if they had jobs in the booth. So when I see people that are super active all day long, I think what are you doing in your business? You're just chatting or responding to people. Anne: I love that you say that. Laya: So the mindset flip there is like, hey, the perception, maybe to others, if I am responding so much, is that I don't have enough work in my business. Anne: Well, yeah. Laya: And nobody wants to feel that way. Anne: Nobody wants that. Laya: But that candidly is sometimes what I see when I -- and not in our industry necessarily, when I see other people that I think are successful creatives. I'm like, what are you, how do you have time to be on this at 2:00 in the afternoon? You know? And so that's just a different way to shift your perspective. Maybe that'll help. I don't know. Anne: No, I actually, I love that you said that because there will be times I will see certain people, if they're continually commenting, continually posting, and I'll be like, what? Like, and this sounds horrible, but like, stop, like, just be quiet. Like just want to say, why are you here so much? Laya: Yes. Anne: Like if you're that busy, why are you still talking? Laya: Or if you're that successful, how are you that -- there's no way you're that successful if you were spending half your day or you're checking in every hour or whatever it is. And it's a willpower thing. Right? And so I'm like, maybe you're a little weak in your willpower, or maybe you're a little weak in your self-esteem that you've got to be on this all the time -- Anne: Interesting. Laya: -- looking for re-encouragement or looking for engagement when you should just be in your business. So that's kind of where I stuck in my head when I felt the same way about you. I started to notice how I felt when I saw that type of activity. Anne: Yeah, I think it's always -- Laya: Maybe that's a hack. Anne: I think it's always good to look inward. So how you -- it's similar to, let's say emails, right? So if I got an email from somebody, and it was unsolicited and they're trying to sell me something, and I look at it and inside I go really? Like, and that is my initial reaction. I think that all BOSSes should look to that. In terms of before you post something, before you email something, before you do anything, how would you react if it was done to you? That kind of thing, you know? Right. I mean, it's just, it's like life lessons 101. Laya: Sure, sure. Anne: If that happened to you, how would you feel? And so there are so many people that are silently doing that to every move possibly that you make on social media or in an email. They're silently making assessments. That's how I'll put it, they're making assessments. Laya: Sure. Anne: And so -- Laya: That's what I was doing. I, so I totally agree with that. Yeah. Anne: I think it's a good check to find out should I post, should I say that? Should I do that? So in terms of helping me be more productive, it actually has helped me to be more productive to limit myself -- Laya: Good for you. Anne: -- limit my input on social media. So that is definitely a number two productivity hack so that I can get my job done and not be distracted. Laya: Time management. Anne: Yes. Laya: You know, it's about everything. And it also kind of comes down to how you format your day. I don't know about you, but a typical day for me will be I get up and I'll do my wellness exercises, my meditation, we've talked about that. Get some fresh air, take care of my kid, get right down to work. I'll usually address -- and I, and I do this in stages and kind of in blocks. And I've learned this through some of my other voiceover mentors, because it's very easy to get wrapped up and scattered in your brain as to, oh, I should. I got to just get these invoices. And I just take a little bit of time every day, but I keep it organized, right? I'll handle all my top priority clients and agent auditions first or jobs, but usually a job isn't -- for me because I work shortform, is not usually left to the next morning unless it has to be. But the warmups for me tend to sit there, and then I'll continue to block the day where if there's jobs, in between those jobs or those sessions, I know I've got invoicing later this afternoon, I'm going to do all my invoicing in one block. And so those block mentality, as you compartmentalize your day, can help you stay productive. And there's a lot of thought about that, like work for 50 minutes and then take that 10-minute break, get up, walk around, get a snack, get a drink, what have you. And so if you can block your day -- Anne: That's important. Laya: -- that also helps with productivity. Anne: Well, as a matter of fact, my sessions are 50 minutes long. So I have 10 minutes to just relax and/or prep for my next session. And I wanted to kind of go back in terms of communication with clients, right? In terms of any type of communication with clients that you might do over and over again, there's a really cool feature that I love in, well, I have two ways that I do it. One is in Gmail. Gmail has templates now. So if you have a certain message that you send over and over to, let's say, a new contact, "hi, thanks so much for contacting. It's a pleasure to meet you. I'd be thrilled to be the voice for your next project." And so those types of templates can be automatically filled through the Gmail templates. I also had another thing that I purchased before the Gmail template came out and that was called Type 4 Me. And that's on a Mac. Laya: Oh, okay. Anne: T-Y-P-E, 4, the number four, Me. And that allows me to have all of these little like clips of the same type of emails, even my response, like my "warm regards, comma, you know, new line, new line, Anne Ganguzza." Laya: Right. Anne: That is, that is a clip. And I can just in a keystroke and with one, I'll do it. Like, thank you. I think I do, uh, TYWR, then it pops in those words for me into the email. And that helps me so immensely. Laya: Thanks for that hack, Anne, because I am a Mac user, and I'm slightly jealous. I know there's a way to convert into using your email to, or Apple Mail to Gmail, but I missed from my old days, those canned email responses. And so what I do is -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- I have a document for that, but thank you for helping me to the Type 4 Me, for Mac. I knew there was something. Anne: There is. Laya: Because I do use canned email templates for a lot of things. I do -- I have one for generic inquiries, for generic corporate work or just what my kind of standard rates are. And that helps you streamline the process. Of course, I tweak and personalize where I need to and when I need to, but just like you see some templates features in some of the pay-to-plays, it's very helpful to -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- just continue to go back to that. I like to keep mine in Google docs, that way I can pull it from anywhere or in my notes, and it can be on my phone in case I'm on the go. And that makes sure that you don't miss anything when communicating quickly to a new client or sending -- Anne: Oh, it's so helpful. Laya: -- inquiry, right? So it's so key. Thanks for that, Type 4 Me. Anne: Type 4 Me. And I think also on the Mac, there is an auto-complete. If you type a few characters, there is an auto-complete, and you can set that up, and that's just comes with the operating system. However, I'm so used to -- and you might want to look into that. Laya: Sure. Anne: Just look into Mac iOS auto-complete, and see how you can enact that or enable that. But I love the type, the Type 4 Me is, it just pops up. It's a little application and I can just say, assign these few characters to this snippet. You know, so it's actually a snippet. Laya: Sure. Anne: And I love, love, love it, because it totally helps me. And I'll tell you another thing that helps me, which I found out a couple of years ago, because I do schedule meetings, and I'm in meetings quite a bit, not just with clients, but also with students. And so my other is a scheduling system, which is done through my Wix website that schedules on my calendar, integrates with my Google calendar, which by the way, I would not be able to live without my Google calendar. Laya: Same. Anne: Everything is scheduled into my Google calendar, and there's a lot of programs out there. Laya: My whole life. Anne: Yes, my life is Google calendar, and everything, there are lots of programs out there that integrate with a Google calendar. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So that is like another one of my hacks. Like literally here, if you want to talk to me or you want to get in touch with me, bang, go sign up for a free consult or just get on my calendar here. And those types of automations really help me to schedule when I can talk to people. Like I literally am scheduled out probably -- my days are pretty darn busy, but this is an ongoing thing with me. You literally need to get me at least a week or two in advance before I can fit you in. 'Cause I've got it so blocked out. Laya: Yeah. Anne: The biggest problem that I have is that if I don't block out time for me, then I have no time for me. That is an issue. Laya: Exactly. So you gotta be number one on your calendar. Anne: Yep. Laya: I agree with you in that I use Calendly, which I've found to be incredibly helpful, especially if you get into the customization. Because for me, I've got, of course I just spoke, I've got an Apple calendar and that does integrate with the Gmail calendars and things of that. I share a calendar with the household. My kid's got a calendar, you know, all of those things. If you're laser connected to Calendly and you can have your own VO calendar, from there, I compartmentalize whether you need a 15 minute precession chat or a SourceConnect test, or maybe you just need to talk about a project that's coming up. Maybe that's a 30 minute block. I've got my session blocks as well for an hour or 50 minutes. And that's helpful to send to my agents for instance -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- where they're like, hey, we just need to know your schedule. Like what's your general availability for the next two weeks? I'm like, here's my link to Calendly and -- Anne: Oh my God. That's a perfect idea. I love that. Laya: Send that over. Now the thing is though for me, I've chose not to add it to my website. The con for me -- pro would be that it's super easy. The con is that then I would have no control over who's booking. And so I have it embedded in a private link on my website. That private link also has my revisions policy -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- my professional services guarantee, and my resume in case somebody needs any of that old school, the old school resume information. Anne: Yup, yup. Laya: So I'll send that link to clients that are asking, or I'll just send the Calendly link for this specific time slot they're asking for which can be its own independent link. Like, hey, we just need a SourceConnect test. Well, here's all the 15 minute blocks that you could get in my schedule over the next infinity. So that to me has been a huge bonus hack as far as keeping things easy. And then you're not going back and forth with the well, yeah, 2:00 on Thursday -- Anne: Oh gosh, that takes up -- Laya: -- from this time to this time. Anne: -- so much time. Laya: You're actually -- and it makes you look way less professional and like you've got a system for your schedule, and that you're in demand. And so -- Anne: Well, yeah. Laya: -- I think that has, it serves many purposes. Anne: And I actually have it linked to my signature on my email. Laya: Nice. Anne: Here, set up a consult or whatever, schedule a chat with me. And so it just links to my scheduler, which is so, so helpful for me because you're right, the back and forth, "okay. So when are you available?" And I'm like, honestly, the best way to get in touch with me is here. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And I'll give them a link to my calendar to get on my calendar, and that just helps. And what's nice is it's automated. It has like, thank you. Here's how we're going to connect. You know -- Laya: Yes, same. Anne: -- it might be ipDTL, or it might be via phone call. It might be via Zoom. I've got all the different ways that you can connect with me. And it just makes my life so much easier. I'm going to say that when I implemented my schedule or my calendar, it literally saved me -- and it automated like sent out the emails. Laya: Yeah. Anne: Thank you for connecting. Here's your automated reminder. Laya: Yes, the follow-up on those are awesome. Anne: Oh, gosh, you can do follow-up. And the fact that it automated all of those emails saved me 50%, at least, of the time that I used to try to schedule people in at times and going back and forth with email. It just became really, really frustrating. Laya: Yeah. And the effort to become more accommodating to your clients, to your students, to whoever, even your friends, you end up wasting more of your time. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And so that's kind of a boundary set. That's really nice. And I love that you spoke to the automation on the backend. Anne: Yeah. Laya: Like I mentioned with Calendly, I can send an immediate reminder 15 minutes prior to session. Anne: Yup, yup. Laya: I can send a follow-up message two weeks after or a week after, or what have you, that says, hey, just checking in, making sure everything is clean with the audio, if you had any other needs. And so it takes that extra wheelhouse off of my mind. Of course, I still have my own method for following up with the client personally, but this just adds like this extra layer. And sometimes I'll get the response back, and they'll be like, oh, thank you so much for checking back in. And to be honest, I may have even forgotten and you know, to follow up or got so busy and something else. Anne: Yeah. Laya: So it saves just peace of mind and professionalism. It takes it to the next level. Anne: And I think also there are those programs or CRMs that can help you to -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- once you connect with your contact, after you've done the job, it can send out an automated email that said "thanks so much again, it was a pleasure working with you and keep me in mind for any additional projects. If you have any questions in the meantime, feel free to contact me here" and boom, and then are actual like on a Wix platform, I have a few drip campaigns that are set up that will automatically contact my clients. So if anybody's on a Wix platform, it is part of the Ascend platform that you -- it's an add-on for email marketing. And basically, so after you connect with a client, you can have a "if then" statement that says, if they open this email, then three days later, send this email or send a followup. And there's lots of different scenarios. So it's really great. So I'll give an example for a VO BOSS interview. If somebody inquires about I want to be on the veal BOSS show, it goes through a whole campaign. Here, sign up here, fill out this form here. The form then sends me all the information, and then it gives them a link to the calendar, which then allows them to schedule, which then there's an automated email that says, thank you so much. Here's how you're going to connect with Anne. It'll send a reminder right before the connection. And then a couple of days after the actual scheduled session, there'll be a thank you that goes out. So it's really awesome the way that it can automate. Laya: I love that. Anne: And there's more than just -- that's the Wix platform. I also have an Active Campaign that I send emails out from to my lists. I also have client lists that can also do automations like that. Laya: Yeah. I've seen some of that same functionality in using HubSpot, which is a free CRM solution. You can connect Zapient to MailChimp. Anne: Yes. Laya: You can connect it to -- Anne: Is it Zapient? Laya: Zap -- Zapient? Anne: Or is it Zapier? Is it Zapier or Zay-pier? I can't remember. Are they two different things? Laya: I think they may be one in the same. Anne: Okay. Laya: I'm not going to fact check myself in this moment, but -- Anne: if you start with zap -- Laya: There's a zap somewhere. There's a zap somewhere out there. Anne: I've used it myself. And it's great. Laya: It's great. Anne: So if this happens, then do that. It's a really wonderful free app that you can do things like that with. Laya: And you can pull content too. Like if you have a hard time pulling all your email addresses because you've got multiple email accounts, or you're trying to create more of a contact list -- in fact, I recently found out an automation was in that cog wheelhouse that pulls my contacts from QuickBooks and put it into MailChimp. So I don't have my CRM solution fully vetted out by any means. I need all the help in the world, but trying these different productivity hacks for automation, there are many solutions out there that can make your life easier and less laborious, you know? Anne: Absolutely. And one other thing I'm going to oh, totally, totally recommend is go ahead, be brave and outsource things that you just -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- don't want to spend your time doing, or it's too com -- I'm going to say like for me, accounting, I say it all the time. Everybody that's listened to any, to just one episode, I might say it every episode. I'm not sure, but outsourcing my accounting was the best thing I ever did for my business. Laya: Yeah. If you don't love it -- Anne: Don't love it. Laya: -- pay someone that does. Anne: And she's great. She's fast. She loves it. And I trust her. I trust her with my life. You know, she'd been doing my accounting for gosh, at least five years. So. Laya: And that's a great hack too. And I use somebody not for my voiceover business, but for the podcast. I have partnered with a very talented, very savvy copywriter, and she knows my style of I, and she creates a social media posts for the podcast that I do with my daughter, She Sounds Like Me. And I love it because it just takes that off my plate. But also we use a platform called Later, which is a social media scheduler. And what I love about that is that I can see what's coming. She can do a cross platform integration and schedule. I can approve it ahead of time. And then if I don't like where she's got it, or it doesn't feel quite right, or it's not timely, I can very easily shift the tiles. So it's either aesthetically pleasing or it's more on topic point or what have you. And that's become a seamless integration into my social media management. I've often thought about integrating it into my voiceover business page, but for me that's still very in the moment, very real time, very personal -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- and not exactly all that consistent at the moment because of just the last year of burnout. But I have found that Later is a great platform. And I feel like I've tried them all over the years, as far as social media scheduling goes. Anne: Yeah. Laya: So that one's pretty efficient. Yeah. Anne: I have a social media scheduler for, 'cause I have so many Facebook business pages, and Facebook for a while was really where a lot of my clients were. And so I have a Facebook scheduler, which also integrates with Twitter and LinkedIn. I can have so many social media to -- it's called Post Planner. Laya: Okay. Anne: And so I've been using that for years. And then also Facebook now has become, and/or Instagram, one in the same now, have their own scheduler now. Laya: Sure, they do. Anne: And so that has become fairly decent in terms of you can't schedule too far, but you can schedule out. So with the combination of those, I'm able to schedule the majority of my stuff out there. And then I will follow up with the engagement. Like I said, I can't be connected to social media every hour of the day, but when I do connect, that's when I engage and comment and respond and also post some interesting finds to my own timeline or add to what I've already posted before to keep it kind of fresh and not too predictable. Laya: Yeah. Absolutely. Another great resource that I've been loving because my days of graphic design or my experience there is limited -- I know what I like aesthetically, but there's no way I'm going to spend time creating unique graphics, whether it's for the show or for promoting the business or promoting something within the voiceover business, like we've done with the podcast. I love using Canva and I use Canva Pro for graphic design for so many things. Anne: Yay! Canva's amazing. Laya: And it's actually, yeah, speaking of integration and scheduling, Canva just introduced a scheduler within their platform. Anne: [gasps] Yes. Laya: And what I love to deep -- and take it to a next level, everyone asks who may not be savvy in those audio grams, where you're seeing how you've maybe just done a radio commercial, and you've gotten full permission from the client, you can use the spot on social or to promote your business, but they don't have moving imagery. So you grab the picture that represents the brand best or the concept or the campaign. And you overlay that audio on top. People are always asking, how did you do that? I use Headliner for that. Anne: Yup. Headliner's awesome. Laya: Love that. I use it for the podcast as well. And sometimes for some of my voice work or for my demos to make a moving image. But Canva now integrates with Headliner. Anne: Oh, amazing. Laya: So these, some of these systems are working together to not only plan, create, schedule, but overlay -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- all in an effort to be more productive, more cohesive, and save you time. Anne: I have to plus like 21,000 for Canva because that literally, you don't have to be a graphic artist -- Laya: No, it's so easy. Anne: -- which not many people I know. Laya: It's intuitive. Yeah. Anne: And so I would struggle with Adobe because I have the Creative Suite -- Laya: Same. Anne: -- but it's not something I use every single day. I'm not a graphic designer, and neither are necessarily anybody that's working with me to do to post social media. But Canva has just joined us together in happy, joyous unity. Laya: Oh, I love it. I love it for my teams too. Anne: Yup. Laya: Like I was saying about my social media manager, we have folders that are specific to that brand. Anne: Yup. Laya: I have folders that are specific to my voiceover business or Cyla's voiceover business. And so to go in there and have this asset library -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- and the membership is very inexpensive. Anne: It is. Laya: There is a free version -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and then an inexpensive version. I just make sure -- Anne: I use Pro. Laya: -- that these are part of my -- yeah, me too, to integrate that as part of my business cost, because those memberships can save you so much time, energy, and effort and up-level the look and feel of your brand and your professionalism. Anne: I didn't know they had scheduling. Now I'm going to have to check that out. Laya: Yeah. Anne: That's awesome. Laya: I don't know what it integrates with or if it's a standalone scheduler, but I love that it's there. It's, everybody's thinking along those same lines, you know? Anne: God, good stuff. Laya: For sure. Anne: BOSS productivity hacks. Laya: Love it. Anne: You guys BOSSes, we would love to hear your productivity hacks. So we've given you the best of ours. And I think I am really, really excited for an amazing year this year, Laya, and I know you are too. Laya: Yes, let's work smarter, not harder -- Anne: There you go. Laya: -- and be smart and productive in our VO BOSS businesses. Anne: And I'll tell you what else is smart. Our sponsor, ipDTL. Laya: Yes. Anne: I love, love, love ipDTL. It allows me to connect with Laya, with all of my clients and with every BOSS out there. So you can find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing, productive week. And we'll see you next week. Laya: And happy new year, absolutely. Anne: Yes. Happy new year. Bye, guys. Laya: Bye-bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.