The Unspeakeasy With Meghan Daum

Erec Smith is an Associate Professor of Rhetoric at York College of Pennsylvania and a prominent voice in the effort to bring greater nuance to conversations about anti-racism and identity movements. Erec was on The Unspeakable back in July of 2021 talking about Critical Race Theory, specifically what it means and where it began. Now he's back for a more free-ranging conversation about the state of racial discussions on campuses, in the workplace and in the culture more broadly. In this episode, he and Meghan discuss the Elimination of Harmful Language initiative released by Stanford last month, which classified words such as "brave" and "guru" as problematic. Erec offers practical advice about how to respond when Critical Race Theory or Diversity, Equity and Inclusion protocols are introduced into your school or workplace; for instance how to distinguish positive and useful implementations of CRT and DEI from counterproductive ones, what questions to ask, who to ask, and how to ask those questions in a non-threatening way. He talks about the concept of a "kairotic moment," why, as a black academic, he's become (in his words) a pariah in his field, and why he thinks contemporary anti-racism efforts have a hand in keeping racism alive. This episode offers bonus content! Erec sticks around for some extra conversation that's available to paying subscribers at https://meghandaum.substack.com. Here, Meghan asks how Erec feels about his life circumstances at this moment–not just professionally but personally. Erec talks about the price he's paid for not toeing the party line, what it's like to live in a rural area as an unmarried middle aged person, and the loneliness of being out of ideological step with your peers and neighbors. Guest Bio: Erec Smith is an Associate Professor of Rhetoric at York College of Pennsylvania. Although he has eclectic scholarly interests, Smith's primary focuses on the rhetorics of anti-racist activism, theory, and pedagogy. He is a co-founder of Free Black Thought, a website dedicated to highlighting viewpoint diversity within the black intelligentsia. Smith is a Writing Fellow for Heterodox Academy, a Senior Fellow for the Foundation Against Intolerance and Racism and an advisor for Counterweight, an organization that advocates for classical liberal concepts of social justice.

Tara Henley is a journalist and podcaster based in Canada who has become one of the most celebrated figures in the heterodox space there. She is the author of the 2020 book Lean Out: A Meditation on the Madness of Modern Life, and was a longtime producer of television and radio for the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. She left the CBC in late 2021 and made a splash last January with the very first installment of her new Substack newsletter: a post about ideological conformity at the CBC and how it encapsulates disconnect between media in general and the concerns and opinions of ordinary citizens. Tara joined Meghan for a conversation about what's transpired for her in the last year and, above all, why journalism has changed course so dramatically why so many people are reluctant to speak out even if they profoundly disagree with what's happening. She also talks about her deeply progressive upbringing in Vancouver, her relationship to second and third wave feminism, and the ways in which she thinks urgent matters around economic hardship and class politics are being ignored. Tara stuck around for some bonus content that's available to paying subscribers to the Unspeakable's Substack. Here, she shares her feelings about aging, speaks candidly about some of the failed promises of the 1980s and, finally, reflects on cancer diagnosis she received in her 20s. She turns the tables and asks Meghan some personal questions, too. To hear this portion, please become a paying subscriber at meghandaum.substack.com. Guest Bio: Tara Henley is a Canadian writer and podcaster, and the author of the national bestseller Lean Out: A Meditation on the Madness of Modern Life. Over the past two decades, her work has appeared on CBC Radio and TV, and in dozens of newspapers and magazines across the country and around the world.

Bridget Phetasy is a prominent podcaster, YouTuber and writer in the heterodox (or, as she likes to call it, politically homeless) space. Jeren Montgomery is a family therapist and also Bridget's husband. As if Bridget didn't already have enough projects, last year the two started Factory Settings, a podcast that explores how built-in biases affect the way people consume information and form opinions. They visited The Unspeakable to talk about how their own settings affect their relationship and what they've discovered in the process of developing the podcast. They also describe how they met in recovery and explain how seeing the world through the lens of sobriety affects their approach to the subjects they cover. This is Bridget's third appearance on The Unspeakable, but it feels like the first time! Guest Bios: Bridget Phetasy is a writer, comedian and Twitter addict. She is host of the podcast Walk-Ins Welcome and Factory Settings which she co-hosts with her husband, Jeren Montgomery. She also stars in her satirical comedy show Dumpster Fire available on YouTube. Her most important role is mom to her daughter, Matilda. Jeren Montgomery is an Associate Marriage and Family Therapist at a mental health and substance abuse treatment center in Los Angeles, California. Avid reader, part-time gamer and husband to Bridget Phetasy, Jeren also spends way too much time online.

Sarah Polley has been acting in film and television since the age of five. She appeared in films like The Adventures of Baron Munchasuen was dubbed "Canada's Sweetheart" for her starring role in the hit television series The Road To Avonlea. Though she continued acting through her teens, starring in acclaimed films like The Sweet Hereafter, she's made her career as a writer and director. Her 2006 debut feature, Away From Her, garnered an Best Actress Oscar nomination for star Julie Christie and a Best Adapted Screenplay nomination for Polley. Her other films include Take This Waltz and the 2012 documentary Stories We Tell. Polley's latest film, Women Talking, is her first American studio release and features an almost all-female cast, including Rooney Mara and Frances McDormand. In this interview, Sarah talks about her entire body of film work as well as Run Towards The Danger, a collection of essays she published earlier this year. A longtime political activist with a particular commitment to emotional and physical safeguarding of the casts and crews on her movie sets, she also discusses the complexities of some of the current conversations around #MeToo movement and other social justice movements. Guest Bio: Sarah Polley received an Oscar nomination for Best Adapted Screenplay for her first film as director- Away From Her, based on the short story The Bear Came Over the Mountain by Alice Munro. This film also garnered an Oscar nomination for Best Actress for star Julie Christie. Her next film Take This Waltz starred Michelle Williams, Seth Rogen, and Sarah Silverman. Stories We Tell, her documentary which examines secrets and memory in her own family, won Best Documentary Film awards from the Los Angeles Film Critics Association, National Board of Review, and the New York Film Critics Circle, as well as a Writer's Guild of America award for its screenplay. As an actor, Polley starred in a wide variety of films including Atom Egoyan's The Sweet Hereafter (Best Supporting Actress award from the Boston Society of Film Critics), Doug Liman's Go (Independent Spirit Award nomination), Zack Snyder's Dawn of the Dead, Jaco Van Dormael's Mr. Nobody opposite Jared Leto, Kathryn Bigelow's The Weight of Water opposite Ciaran Hinds, David Cronenberg's Existenz, Isabel Coixet's The Secret Life of Words and My Life Without Me (Canadian Screen Award, Best Actress), Audrey Wells' Guinevere, Wim Wenders' Don't Come Knocking, Michael Winterbottom's The Claim, and Terry Gilliam's The Adventures of Baron Munchausen. In 2022, Polley released Run Towards the Danger: Confrontations with a Body of Memory, an autobiographical collection of essays detailing her relationship with her body and how her memory of past and present experiences has contributed to her evolving understanding of self.

Zubin Damania is a Stanford trained physician and founder of Turntable Health, an innovative health care clinic and early model of "Health 3.0." He spent many years working with patients in hospitals, during which he launched a shadow career on YouTube under the pseudonym ZDoggMD. He is now host of the hugely successful podcast the ZDoggMD Show, where he talks about public health and problems within the medical field. In this conversation, Zubin explains not only why it's so hard to find a doctor these days but why it's so hard to be a doctor. He also talks about why people in the medical field are prone to groupthink, why Obamacare made things worse, and how self-employed people who buy their own insurance (like Meghan) might begin to rethink their whole approach. Guest Bio: Dr. Zubin Damania is an internist and former hospitalist and now a leader in the movement to build a new model of health care. He is the host of the ZDoggMD show, which you can find at https://zdoggmd.com.

Last fall, Meghan was commissioned by The New York Times to conduct an interview with a therapist who was politically conservative. The editors were curious about the question of whether most therapists lean toward the political left and whether this causes some some patients to self-censor because they fear judgment. They editors tracked down Dea Bridge, a licensed professional counselor in Colorado, and The Q&A-style interview was published in the October 4, 2022 edition of the Times opinion section. The interivew touched a nerve with readers, both positively and negatively. One of the central questions readers asked was also one of Meghan's questions: what about Dea's particular approach was "conservative?" Moreover, why should politics enter into therapy at all? Given the huge response to the conversation, Meghan invited Dea to continue it on The Unspeakable. Here, Dea talks about approaches to (and definitions of) trauma, how her own time in the military influences her work with veterans, and whether an "up by your bootstraps" approach to therapy might be more useful than some people assume. She also talks about how valuable the Times experience has been, even though when the editors first contacted her she wondered if it was an internet scam. Guest Bio Dea Bridge is a Colorado Licensed Professional Counselor, Nationally Certified Counselor, and a Full Operating Provider/Evaluator through the Colorado Sex Offender Management Board (SOMB). She is also certified in Equine Assisted Psychotherapy through the Equine Assisted Growth and Learning Association (EAGALA). Her counseling experience includes working with military veterans, law enforcement / corrections officers/first responders, adults involved with the criminal justice system, adults with cognitive or developmental disabilities, and community mental health crisis evaluation and management. She is an Army veteran and former first responder.

Nina Paley is an illustrator, filmmaker, and self-described TERF (trans exclusionary radical feminist). Corinna Cohn is a transwoman who happens to be Nina's good friend. According to the culture war playback, the two should be mortal enemies. Instead, they have a podcast together; Heterodorx, which focuses on their daily lives and the current state of the gender wars. In this conversation, Nina and Corinna talk with Meghan about what drew them together as friends, how the podcast emerged, and, above all, how their individual experiences around sex roles, stereotypes and power differentials led to their "gender critical" stance. They also get candid about their relationships to their own sexuality. Nina recalls her adventures in sex positivity in the San Francisco counter culture in her younger years, including putting makeup on her crossdressing boyfriends. Corinna speaks candidly about the physical, psychological and sexual effects of her transition, at age 19, and why she urges caution in kids now seeking medicalized transition. Finally, Nina explains why she uses he/him pronouns for Corinna and Corinna explains why this doesn't bother her since she has better things to do. This episode is sponsored by Better Help online therapy. Guest Bios: Corinna Cohn writes about life having undergone the process of gender transition as a teenager in the 1990s. Corinna's writing has appeared in Quillette and the Washington Post. Nina Paley is the creator of the critically acclaimed animated musical feature films Sita Sings The Blues and Seder-Masochism, a 2006 Guggenheim Fellow, and Free Culture advocate. Find her at https://blog.ninapaley.com.

Behind every Infamous news story is a journalist trying to hold power to account. Join reporters Vanessa Grigoriadis and Gabriel Sherman as they take an in-depth look at the most explosive scandals of this century. From high-profile divorces to sex cults to the lies that started a war, they'll guide you through the juiciest, most outrageous, celeb-filled stories of the last two decades, and give you a behind-the-scenes look at what it takes to shine an unflattering light on the world's most powerful people. A Campside Media & Sony Music Entertainment production.

Maud Maron had a long career as a public defender and is now a schools advocate in New York City, where she was board president of Manhattan's largest school district. This year, she competed in the Democratic primary among a large field of candidates gunning for a rare open seat in New York's 10th district. She didn't win, but she remains a prominent voice among liberals seeking to elevate moderate Democratic positions. In this conversation, recorded shortly after the evening of the midterm elections, Maud talks about her political journey from a typical New York progressive to someone whose centrist views are often deemed transgressive by her liberal neighbors. She recounts how she was fired from the Legal Aid Society for pointing out what she saw as the inherent racism of DEI trainings in the workplace and explains why she won't shut up about gender politics, regardless of how impolitic that is. Most of all, she responds to the results of the midterms and talks about what she foresees for the Democratic Party. Will she stay or will she go independent? And how much difference does it make anyway? Guest Bio: Maud Maron is a New York City based attorney and parents' rights activist. Maud began her career as a criminal defense attorney at the Legal Aid Society where she worked as a staff attorney in Manhattan and the Bronx. She is the co-founder of PLACE NYC, a parent-lead, pro-merit organization dedicated to improving NYC's public schools. She is a founding member of the Board of Advisors of FAIR and a frequent contributor to many national periodicals including Newsweek, NYPost, NYDaily News and Common Sense.

Ilana Redstone is an Associate Professor of Sociology at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. She is also the faculty director and a co-founder of the Mill Institute, an organization aimed at helping educators learn how to foster productive, respectful discussions that make room for a variety of viewpoints in the classroom. In this conversation, Ilana talks about her work around a concept she's coined "the certainty trap." The idea is that being "absolutely sure" about a particular position or opinion may actually be a sign of underlying doubt. Unsurprisingly, this kind of unconscious cognitive dissonance may in fact have a lot to do with our current troubles as a society when it comes to public discourse. In this conversation, Ilana talks with Meghan about how the word "truth" can often throw people off course and explains how she works with her students to challenge their assumptions and biases. In the second part of the interview, Ilana walks Meghan through a couple of positions about which Meghan feels "certain." In so doing, she floats a potentially mind-blowing concept: if you replace feeling "certain" with feeling "confident," your entire worldview can shift in a more productive direction. And you might even be better able to change the minds of others. Guest Bio: Ilana Redstone is an Associate Professor of sociology at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and the Faculty Director of The Mill Institute at UATX. In May of 2022 she published her seminal essay, The Certainty Trap, in Tablet. She is also the co-author of Unassailable Ideas: How Unwritten Rules and Social Media Shape Discourse in American Higher Education, the creator of the Beyond Bigots and Snowflakes video series and the founder of Diverse Perspectives Consulting.