The Unspeakeasy With Meghan Daum

For more than 30 years, Jean Twenge has been studying how generational differences affect the workplace, family life, public policy, interpersonal relationships, and individual identity. Her research has been foundational in many of the current culture war discussions, including in Jonathan Haidt and Greg Lukianoff’s seminal book The Coddling of the American Mind. Jean is the author of seven books, including Generation Me and iGen: Why Today’s Super-Connected Kids Are Growing Up Less Rebellious, More Tolerant, Less Happy–and Completely Unprepared for Adulthood. Her new book is Generations: The Real Differences between Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, Boomers and Silents and What they Mean for America’s Future. In this conversation, she talks with Meghan about what she’s learned from working with a dataset of 39 million people born between 1925 and 2012. She dispels some of the most common myths about certain generations (for instance that millennials are broke) and talks about the concept of “fast” versus “slow” life strategies. She also talks about how the 1950s got codified as a symbol of traditional values when in fact it was an anonymous case in many ways. For instance, more women were enrolled in college in the 1930s than in the 1950s.    Jean stays overtime for paying Substack subscribers to share her feelings about her own age generation. That happens to be Generation X, which is one of Meghan’s favorite topics. Meghan asks why Gen X is the real "greatest generation." To hear that portion, become a paying subscriber at https://meghandaum.substack.com/.   Guest Bio: Jean Twenge is a professor of Psychology at San Diego State University and the author of several books, including Generation Me, iGen, and The Narcissism Epidemic. Her new book is Generations: The Real Differences between Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, Boomers and Silents and What they Mean for America’s Future. She lives in San Diego with her husband and three daughters.

Stella O’Malley is a psychotherapist in Ireland who works with adolescents and their families. She’s also an author, documentarian, and speaker, but many Unspeakable listeners may know her from her podcast Gender A Wider Lens, which she co-hosts with therapist (and early Unspeakable guest) Sasha Ayad. This conversation covers aspects of the gender debates, but the main occasion for Stella’s visit is her new book, What Your Teen Is Trying To Tell You: Surviving, Thriving and Reconnecting Through The Teenage Years. In it, she writes about how overreliance on mental health professions has undermined parents’ confidence in their own judgment and instincts. Too often, at the slightest sign of trouble, therapists are brought into the picture, leading everyone to pathologize what in many cases are simply normal, if uncomfortable feelings. Stella discusses the impact of psychotropic prescriptions, the element of social contagion when it comes to “having mental illness,” and posits that the absence of organized religion has created a spiritual void in teenagers that can lead to depression. (Meghan is surprised by this and wonders if this is an Irish thing.) Stell also talks about what it’s been like to be at the forefront of conversations about gender dysphoria and stays overtime to talk about her own dysphoria as a kid.    To hear the bonus portion, become a paying subscriber at meghandaum.substack.com.   Guest Bio: Stella O'Malley is a psychotherapist, best-selling author, public speaker, and parent with many years of experience working in counseling and psychotherapy. Born in Dublin, Stella lives in rural Ireland, where she runs her private practice and lives with her husband and two children. Find her at http://www.stellaomalley.com/.

ChayaLeah Sufrin and Yael Bar-tur hardly need an introduction, since this is their third visit to The Unspeakable! Last fall, the hosts of the acclaimed podcast Ask A Jew explained the meaning of Yom Kippur, Rosh Hashanah, and Sukkot (or the “autumn holidays,” as Meghan calls them). Now, it’s the spring holiday, and Yael gives her version of the Passover story before ChayaLeah steps in and sets the record straight. ChayaLeah also explains some of the more unusual customs of Orthodox Jews during Passover, including lining your entire kitchen with tin foil and getting your car detailed to make sure it’s completely devoid of crumbs. They also talk about everyone’s favorite topic, the “crisis of masculinity,” and whether matchmaking practices among the Orthodox are better than dating apps. On a lighter note, Yael explains the current political situation in Israel.    In the bonus portion for Unspeakale Substack subscribers, Yael and ChayaLeah reflect on being the ages that they are and also talk more about incels.   The Unspeakable will take next week off for Passover/Easter/spring break and will return April 17.   Guest Bios: ChayaLeah Sufrin was raised in an Orthodox Jewish home in Long Beach, CA.  After attending university in New York, ChayaLeah moved back to Southern California and spent fifteen years teaching High school Jewish history and as the Education Director at Shul by the Shore. ChayaLeah served as the Senior Jewish Educator at Long Beach Hillel for three years and is now the Executive Director. ChayaLeah, together with her husband Boruch, has four  teenage sons. Yael Bar-tur is a crisis communications and social media consultant who previously served as the director of social media and digital strategy for the New York City Police Department where she developed and implemented the social media and digital communications strategy.

Ruby Warrington has staked out ground in a number of areas. She is the founder of the self-publishing platform The Numinous and also a leading figure in the “sober curious” movement; she coined the term and is also the author of the 2018 book of the same name. She visited The Unspeakable to talk about a subject very close to Meghan’s heart; the decision not to have kids. In her new book Women Without Kids: The Revolutionary Rise of an Unsung Sisterhood, Ruby examines the rise in women (and men) who are childless--either by choice or circumstance--and reports on the “global reproduction slowdown” of the last several decades. She shares her own story and reflects on how much (or how little) the family dynamics of her own childhood shaped her choice not to become a mother. She and Meghan talk about how childless people are planning for their old age, the degree to which concerns about climate change are affecting people’s choices, and whether there really is a global population crisis (and if so, which direction it’s going in).   For paying subscribers to the Unspeakable Susbtack, Ruby stays overtime for a topic that has never been covered on the podcast; astrology! Meghan is skeptical about the whole thing (in other words, a typical Aquarius) but nonetheless interested in what her birth chart might tell her about her struggles of late. They also talk at length about the sober curious movement, including how and why Ruby began hosting sober curious events and how this approach is different from traditional twelve-step programs. Meghan even shares a bit about her still-in-progress year off from drinking.     Guest Bio: Ruby Warrington is the author of Women Without Kids: The Revolutionary Rise of an Unsung Sisterhood and is the creator of the term “sober curious." Author of the 2018 book Sober Curious and million-download podcast of the same title, her work has spearheaded a global movement to reevaluate our relationship to alcohol. Other works include Material Girl, Mystical World (2017), The Numinous Astro Deck  (2019), and The Sober Curious Reset (2020). With 20+ years’ experience as a lifestyle journalist and editor, Ruby is also the founder of the self-publishing incubator Numinous Books.

Stephen Marche is the author of six books, has been a columnist at Esquire, has taught Shakespeare at the college level and has contributed to The New Yorker, The Atlantic, The New York Times, and many other publications. By any reasonable measure, his career is an unmitigated success. But seen through a different lens (for instance his own) it can also look a lot like failure. That’s true of just about every writer who ever lived and Stephen grapples with this dichotomy in new book, On Writing And Failure, which is both a literary history and a reverse pep talk for aspiring artists. In this conversation, Stephen talks about how writers from James Baldwin to James Joyce to Li Bai (and many, many others) built legacies on the sands of constant rejection. He also shares stories of his own failures and offers some thoughts about how the contours of failure and rejection have changed in the new independent creator economy. For paying Substack subscribers, Stephen stays overtime to talk about failure outside of the literary arena, including the perils of marriage and childrearing. Meghan shares her story about getting rejected from a dream job because of a typo in her resumé and Stephen remembers what it was like when his first book, a novel, received a positive New York Times review from none other than . . . Meghan!   Guest Bio: Stephen Marche is a novelist and essayist. He is the author of half a dozen books, including The Next Civil War, The Unmade Bed: The Messy Truth About Men and Women in the Twenty-First Century (2016) and The Hunger of the Wolf (2015). He has written opinion pieces and essays for The New Yorker, The New York Times, The Atlantic, Esquire, The Walrus and many others. He is the host of the hit audio series How Not to F*ck Up Your Kids Too Bad, and its sequel How Not to F*ck Up Your Marriage Too Bad on Audible. His latest book is On Writing and Failure: Or, On the Peculiar Perseverance Required to Endure the Life of a Writer (Field Notes).

Lincoln Jones is the director of the American Contemporary Ballet Company in Los Angeles, which he co-founded in 2011. Lincoln took an unusual path to dance and has an approach to performance and stage production that is worth discussing in its own right. But he came across Meghan’s radar because of his unlikely involvement in the new free speech debates. In this conversation, Lincoln explains how that happened (spoiler alert: he didn’t want to perfunctorily post a black square on his company’s website in the summer of 2020) and talks about how even the ballet world has been affected by the censoriousness of the current moment. Most of all, though, he talks about dance. In a conversation unlike you’ve heard on The Unspeakable, Lincoln talks about what choreography means to him, especially the choreography and dance of Fred Astaire, and about how movement maps onto the human experience and translates to the stage.    In the bonus portion for paying subscribers at https://meghandaum.substack.com Lincoln shares his feelings about his age–47 years old–and talks about how awareness of his mortality is fueling his work. He offers his opinion about TikTok dances, Michael Jackson, and discloses how he really feels about the film LaLa Land.   Guest Bio: Lincoln Jones is the director of the American Contemporary Ballet Company in Los Angeles. Learn more about the company at https://www.acbdances.com.

Freddie deBoer has a very popular Substack newsletter and is the author of the 2020 book, The Cult of Smart. He writes about culture and social politics and is known for his trenchant insights into mental health issues as well as his Marxist politics. He visited The Unspeakable to talk about a number of subjects, including a recent Unspeakable conversation about involuntary psychiatric treatment. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder when he was 20, Freddie makes the case that it’s actually quite difficult to find mental healthcare for oneself or for a loved one, particularly in a crisis situation. He talks about the circumstances that led to his first stay in a psychiatric hospital, what services he received both during and after those stays, and why it’s so difficult to find meaningful help for homeless people in visible mental distress.     Freddie also stayed overtime and discussed his recent essay about why the 1990s were objectively the best time to be alive. That’s a favorite subject of Meghan’s, as is the subject of how to cope with the vicissitudes of the new creative economy, and he covered that as well. To hear this portion, become a paying subscriber at meghandaum.substack.com.     Guest Bio: Freddie deBoer’s writing can be found at https://freddiedeboer.substack.com. His 2020 book, The Cult Of Smart: How Our Broken Education System Perpetuates Social Injustice was published by St. Martin’s Press.

Peter Moskos is a criminologist and sociologist who teaches at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York City. He is also a former Baltimore City Cop, which was the subject of his award-winning 2008 book, Cop In The Hood. Peter was one of the very first guests on The Unspeakable, back in August of 2020, when he talked about the unrest following the death of George Floyd and the mainstreaming of police abolition messaging. A lot has happened since then and Meghan invited him back to reflect on the last two and a half years and talk about what progress, if any, has been made when it comes to police conduct, media coverage of policing, and, most of all, public perceptions of police brutality and the number of Americans killed by cops every year.    Peter stayed overtime for some still-very-serious but also fun conversation about how he feels about his life these days, what he does and does not miss about the 1980s and 90s, and his relatively new hobby playing the autoharp. Most of all, he talked about the book he’s been writing on the history of policing in New York City from the 1970s onward. To hear that portion, become a paying subscriber at meghdaum.substack.com.

Most people associate forcible detentions in psychiatric wards with barbaric practices of the past. But as Canadian investigative journalist Rob Wipond reports in his new book, involuntary psychiatric treatment is all too common today. In Your Consent Is Not Required, Rob shows just how little agency patients often have in their own care and, moreover, how the medical establishment and pharmaceutical industry benefit from as many people as possible being classified as “mental patients.” In this conversation, he talks with Meghan about how psychiatric interventions can be weaponized against patients, why therapies such as electroshock remain so widely used, and how wellness checks and calls to suicide hotlines can result in massive overreach that traps patients in a deeply-flawed and often poorly regulated system.     For paying subscribers: Rob stayed overtime for a more personal conversation about how he feels about his life and career these days and how he went from acting in local theater, performing music, and doing various kinds of community work to being an investigative reporter. He also shared his theory as to why Canadians do so well in American late-night television. To hear that portion, become a paying subscriber at meghandaum.substack.com    Guest Bio: Rob Wipond is a freelance journalist and creative nonfiction writer who writes frequently at the interfaces between psychiatry, civil rights, community issues, policing, surveillance and privacy, and social change. His articles have been nominated for seventeen magazine and journalism awards, and he’s the author of the book Your Consent is Not Required: The Rise in Psychiatric Detentions, Forced Treatment, and Abusive Guardianships (BenBella, 2023).

This week Meghan welcomes back journalist Jamie Kirchick. Jamie was on The Unspeakable last fall with Mike Pesca and Virginia Heffernan, his co-hosts on the political analysis podcast Not Even Mad, which is currently on hiatus. Now, he’s here for a very different reason. On February 4, Jamie published an extraordinarily long and quite remarkable–even shocking– article about the case of the film actor Armie Hammer, whose reputation was annihilated in early 2021 when he was accused by a series of women of physical and sexual violence and even cannibalism. Though investigations have so far turned up nothing along these lines, the court of public opinion has held firm in its rebuke of Hammer and there’s been little incentive in Hollywood or the news media to take an honest look at the facts. But Jamie’s article may be a significant turning point and he came on the podcast to recap the story, talk about what it was like to report it, and reflect on the various cultural dynamics that allowed things to play out as they did. Jamie is a columnist for Tablet Magazine and a writer for the digital news and culture site Air Mail, where his story, Armie Hammer Breaks His Silence, was published.   Jamie stuck around for some bonus chat about Meghan’s favorite question; how he feels about being the age he is (spoiler: 39). That led to other topics; for instance how he feels about being gay amidst a so-called “queer” revolution and how, as an elder millennial, he feels about Gen Z. To hear that portion, go to meghandaudm.substack.com and become a paying subscriber.   Guest Bio: Jamie Kirchick is a columnist for Tablet magazine, a writer-at-large for Air Mail and the author of the bestseller Secret City: The Hidden History of Gay Washington.