
The Leader’s Way
Join Brandon Nappi, DMin, and Hannah Black, PhD, on this audio pilgrimage from Berkeley Divinity School, the Episcopal seminary at Yale. Journey with us as we contemplate life’s biggest questions together. In this podcast, we interview leaders and scholars as we think through the Church in the world today, theology, leadership, and innovation. Join us on this pilgrimage, where we cultivate hope and find inspiration along the way. New episodes drop every other Monday.
Latest episodes

Jun 2, 2025 • 58min
56: Wonder and Salvation with Hannah Black
Hannah has news, and you have new friends! Tune in to meet guest hosts Whitney and Misty as they join Brandon in interviewing Hannah for our season finale. Why is Gregory of Nyssa’s take on salvation so different from what Hannah heard in church growing up? Are there risks in the regular ways we talk about Christian salvation? How did feminist theology help her untangle all of this? How much can we know or talk about God? And why is wonder, an antidote to certainty, so important? Listen to find out.
Hosts: Brandon Nappi, Whitney Kimball Coe, and Misty Krasawski
Guest: Hannah Black
Production: Goodchild Media
Music: Wayfaring Stranger, Theodicy Jazz Collective
Art: E. Landino
Instagram: @theleadersway.podcast
berkeleydivinity.yale.edu/podcast
You can support our work at https://tinyurl.com/support-transforming-leaders

15 snips
May 26, 2025 • 1h 7min
55: Flexible Leadership with Jeffrey Mello
Jeffrey Mello, the 16th Bishop Diocesan of the Episcopal Church in Connecticut, shares his unique blend of social work and ministry. He discusses how a posture of curiosity and the acceptance of failure are essential to effective leadership. The conversation delves into the challenges and benefits of integrating pop culture into spiritual practices, as well as the importance of community dynamics in fostering personal and collective growth. The lighthearted segment at the end reveals his playful side through a rapid-fire question round, making for an entertaining conclusion.

13 snips
May 19, 2025 • 51min
54: Queer Theology with Linn Tonstad
Linn Tonstad, a Professor of Theology, Religion, and Sexuality at Yale Divinity School, joins the hosts to dive into the transformative potential of queer theology. She discusses how this perspective challenges conventional beliefs about gender and sexuality, promoting social change and reduced violence. The conversation touches on the evolution of 'coming out' and the intimate relationships within queer narratives. With personal anecdotes and reflections on identity, Tonstad urges listeners to celebrate diversity and foster joy within communities.

11 snips
May 12, 2025 • 1h 1min
53: The Church's Future with Andrew McGowan
Andrew McGowan, Dean and President of Berkeley Divinity School at Yale, shares his insights on the changing dynamics of the church and its future. He discusses the parallels between Australian secularization and trends in the U.S., including a decline in church attendance. McGowan highlights the nuanced difference between hope and optimism and critiques consumer capitalism's impact on faith communities. The conversation also touches on the importance of genuine community engagement and the evolving nature of the Eucharist, culminating in a lighthearted debate about the best bread for the sacrament.

May 5, 2025 • 1h 3min
52: God Didn’t Make Us to Hate Us with Lizzie McManus-Dail
THE Father Lizzie is back on The Leader's Way podcast, talking about her new devotional God Didn't Make Us to Hate Us. We talk about the alternative to "billboard Christianity" and how an expansive, inclusive God affects individual spirituality and corporate worship in church.
Finally, the Golden Retriever Games are back, baby. Stay 'till the end for "Holy or Horror?"
https://bookshop.org/contributors/lizzie-mcmanus-dail
Hosts: Brandon Nappi and Hannah Black
Guest: Lizzie McManus-Dail
Production: Goodchild Media
Music: Wayfaring Stranger, Theodicy Jazz Collective
Art: E. Landino
Instagram: @theleadersway.podcast
berkeleydivinity.yale.edu/podcast
You can support our work at https://tinyurl.com/support-transforming-leaders

Apr 21, 2025 • 57min
51: Trust in Atonement with Teresa Morgan
Teresa Morgan, a Yale Divinity School Professor, specializes in the history of ideas and early Christianity. In this engaging conversation, she unpacks the Greek word 'pistis,' revealing its profound meanings surrounding trust and faith. Morgan critiques traditional views of atonement theology, highlighting the importance of genuine relationships in both ancient and modern contexts. The discussion also links trust to personal identity and emphasizes the need for cultivating authentic connections in faith practices today.

Apr 7, 2025 • 58min
50: Innovative Parish Ministry with the Threshold Center
The Rev'd John Burruss (The Leader's Way ’23 Fellow) and the Rev'd Mary Bea Sullivan join hosts Hannah Black and Brandon Nappi to tell the story of the Threshold Center, a vibrant space designed to address loneliness and foster connection in Birmingham, Alabama. Born from a tragic event in the life of St. Stephen's Episcopal Church, the Threshold Center nurtures well-being and connection by engaging practices of the heart, body, and imagination through innovative programs like trauma-informed yoga, listening as an act of love, and peace through poetry. This episode offers rich insights into the power of collaboration, creativity, and radical hospitality.
https://www.thethresholdcenter.org/
Advertising partners: http://livingchurch.org/events
Hosts: Brandon Nappi and Hannah Black Guests: The Rev'd John Burruss and the Rev'd Mary Bea Sullivan
Production: Goodchild Media
Music: Wayfaring Stranger, Theodicy Jazz Collective
Art: E. Landino
Instagram: @theleadersway.podcast
https://berkeleydivinity.yale.edu/podcast
You can support our work at https://tinyurl.com/support-transforming-leaders

Mar 24, 2025 • 49min
49: Creative, Collaborative Mission with Graham Kings
Bishop Graham Kings, Honorary Assistant Bishop in the Diocese of Ely and Research Associate of the Cambridge Centre for Christianity Worldwide, joins us to delve into the possibilities of engaging creativity in ministry. We discuss the power of collaboration with artists, crafting liturgical celebrations, his project on women in the Bible, how to start a Beer and Theology gathering, traveling from Oxford to Cambridge by camel, a surprise meeting with Prince Philip and Desmond Tutu in 1999, and the centrality of mission.
Host: Hannah Black
Guest: Bishop Graham Kings
Production: Goodchild Media
Music: Wayfaring Stranger, Theodicy Jazz Collective
Art: E Landino
Instagram: @theleadersway.podcast
berkeleydivinity.yale.edu/podcast

Mar 10, 2025 • 1h 18min
48: The Subversive Fireside with Krista Tippett
On Being host Krista Tippett reflects on her career and tells stories never before heard on air. She contemplates her grandfather's spirituality, what she was looking for when she decided to come to Yale Divinity School, the need she saw for intelligent public conversation about spirituality and religion, and the birth story of Speaking of Faith (later On Being) during the Cold War. We consider how religious traditions can open up to the world's pain and, finally, encourage imaginative, muscular hope.
Hosts: Brandon Nappi and Hannah Black
Guest: Krista Tippett
Production: Goodchild Media
Music: Wayfaring Stranger, Theodicy Jazz Collective
Art: E. Landino
Instagram: @theleadersway.podcast berkeleydivinity.yale.edu/podcast You can support our work at https://tinyurl.com/support-transforming-leaders

Feb 24, 2025 • 1h 2min
47: Apocalyptic Clarity with Jesse Zink
Jesse Zink, an Anglican priest and principal of Montreal Diocesan Theological College, discusses navigating faith in today's crisis-laden world. He highlights the importance of fostering a culture of contentment against the backdrop of consumerism. They delve into the idea of 'pdf polycrisis', emphasizing how interconnected global challenges require a faith-based response. Zink shares insights from his book, advocating for creativity and hope while reevaluating Christian values amid contemporary societal pressures.