

The Leader’s Way
Berkeley Divinity School at Yale
Join Brandon Nappi, DMin, and Hannah Black, PhD, on this audio pilgrimage from Berkeley Divinity School, the Episcopal seminary at Yale. Journey with us as we contemplate life’s biggest questions together. In this podcast, we interview leaders and scholars as we think through the Church in the world today, theology, leadership, and innovation. Join us on this pilgrimage, where we cultivate hope and find inspiration along the way. New episodes drop every other Monday.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Aug 11, 2025 • 45min
60: Tell Me About Your Spiritual Side with Adrian Dannhauser
Adrian Dannhauser, Rector of Church of the Incarnation in NYC and author, dives into the depths of spiritual practice and evangelism. He shares insights from his transformation from Southern Baptist roots to embracing inclusivity in the Episcopal Church. The discussion covers the significance of silent retreats and the courage required to pray for others. Adrian emphasizes the healing power of community and love in worship, along with practical tips for navigating challenges in spiritual ministry, all while showcasing his authentic self through playful anecdotes.

Jul 28, 2025 • 51min
59: High School Theater to Church Governance with Molly James
What do church mission, governance, and high school theater have in common? Brandon and Hannah talk with The Rev’d Molly James, PhD., Interim Executive Officer at The Episcopal Church and Berkeley Divinity at Yale alum (’05), about the ways Church mission and institutional governance weave together to strengthen the work of The Episcopal Church. Listen as Rev’d Molly recounts lessons on leadership gleaned from her high school stage manager days and reminds us how real transformation only happens when we work together.
Hosts: Brandon Nappi, Whitney Kimball Coe, and Misty Krasawski
Guest: Hannah Black
Production: Goodchild Media
Music: Wayfaring Stranger, Theodicy Jazz Collective
Art: E. Landino
Instagram: @theleadersway.podcast
berkeleydivinity.yale.edu/podcast
You can support our work at https://tinyurl.com/support-transforming-leaders

Jul 14, 2025 • 49min
58: The Idolatry of White Nationalism with Jim Wallis
In this episode, Brandon talks with New York Times bestselling author, public theologian, preacher, and founder of Sojourners, The Rev’d Jim Wallis. Their conversation explores the theological implications of authoritarianism, new frames for understanding church unity, and the difference between optimism and hope.
Host: Brandon Nappi
Guest: Jim Wallis
Production: Goodchild Media
Music: Wayfaring Stranger, Theodicy Jazz Collective
Art: E. Landino
Instagram: @theleadersway.podcast berkeleydivinity.yale.edu/podcast
You can support our work at https://tinyurl.com/support-transforming-leaders

Jun 30, 2025 • 59min
57: Forecasting the Future with Rachel Hatch
Futurist and Berkeley Divinity at Yale alum Rachel Hatch (‘08) joins Brandon and Hannah for a conversation about how to look for signals of change within our own parishes and communities as we make thoughtful choices for the future. In this episode, Rachel encourages leaders to cultivate a practice of imagining possibilities and taking steps toward hope-filled futures, while still addressing the urgencies of the present.

Jun 2, 2025 • 58min
56: Wonder and Salvation with Hannah Black
Hannah has news, and you have new friends! Tune in to meet guest hosts Whitney and Misty as they join Brandon in interviewing Hannah for our season finale. Why is Gregory of Nyssa’s take on salvation so different from what Hannah heard in church growing up? Are there risks in the regular ways we talk about Christian salvation? How did feminist theology help her untangle all of this? How much can we know or talk about God? And why is wonder, an antidote to certainty, so important? Listen to find out.
Hosts: Brandon Nappi, Whitney Kimball Coe, and Misty Krasawski
Guest: Hannah Black
Production: Goodchild Media
Music: Wayfaring Stranger, Theodicy Jazz Collective
Art: E. Landino
Instagram: @theleadersway.podcast
berkeleydivinity.yale.edu/podcast
You can support our work at https://tinyurl.com/support-transforming-leaders

15 snips
May 26, 2025 • 1h 7min
55: Flexible Leadership with Jeffrey Mello
Jeffrey Mello, the 16th Bishop Diocesan of the Episcopal Church in Connecticut, shares his unique blend of social work and ministry. He discusses how a posture of curiosity and the acceptance of failure are essential to effective leadership. The conversation delves into the challenges and benefits of integrating pop culture into spiritual practices, as well as the importance of community dynamics in fostering personal and collective growth. The lighthearted segment at the end reveals his playful side through a rapid-fire question round, making for an entertaining conclusion.

13 snips
May 19, 2025 • 51min
54: Queer Theology with Linn Tonstad
Linn Tonstad, a Professor of Theology, Religion, and Sexuality at Yale Divinity School, joins the hosts to dive into the transformative potential of queer theology. She discusses how this perspective challenges conventional beliefs about gender and sexuality, promoting social change and reduced violence. The conversation touches on the evolution of 'coming out' and the intimate relationships within queer narratives. With personal anecdotes and reflections on identity, Tonstad urges listeners to celebrate diversity and foster joy within communities.

11 snips
May 12, 2025 • 1h 1min
53: The Church's Future with Andrew McGowan
Andrew McGowan, Dean and President of Berkeley Divinity School at Yale, shares his insights on the changing dynamics of the church and its future. He discusses the parallels between Australian secularization and trends in the U.S., including a decline in church attendance. McGowan highlights the nuanced difference between hope and optimism and critiques consumer capitalism's impact on faith communities. The conversation also touches on the importance of genuine community engagement and the evolving nature of the Eucharist, culminating in a lighthearted debate about the best bread for the sacrament.

May 5, 2025 • 1h 3min
52: God Didn’t Make Us to Hate Us with Lizzie McManus-Dail
THE Father Lizzie is back on The Leader's Way podcast, talking about her new devotional God Didn't Make Us to Hate Us. We talk about the alternative to "billboard Christianity" and how an expansive, inclusive God affects individual spirituality and corporate worship in church.
Finally, the Golden Retriever Games are back, baby. Stay 'till the end for "Holy or Horror?"
https://bookshop.org/contributors/lizzie-mcmanus-dail
Hosts: Brandon Nappi and Hannah Black
Guest: Lizzie McManus-Dail
Production: Goodchild Media
Music: Wayfaring Stranger, Theodicy Jazz Collective
Art: E. Landino
Instagram: @theleadersway.podcast
berkeleydivinity.yale.edu/podcast
You can support our work at https://tinyurl.com/support-transforming-leaders

Apr 21, 2025 • 57min
51: Trust in Atonement with Teresa Morgan
Teresa Morgan, a Yale Divinity School Professor, specializes in the history of ideas and early Christianity. In this engaging conversation, she unpacks the Greek word 'pistis,' revealing its profound meanings surrounding trust and faith. Morgan critiques traditional views of atonement theology, highlighting the importance of genuine relationships in both ancient and modern contexts. The discussion also links trust to personal identity and emphasizes the need for cultivating authentic connections in faith practices today.