The Engineering Leadership Podcast

Conflict is a necessary part of the job. So how can you transform conflict to be collaborative, not competitive? Jordan Adler (Head of Dev Eng @ OneSignal) previews his conflict optimization workshop taking place at our 2022 Spring Virtual Summit! Jordan shares some of the main sources of conflict in eng teams, how to uncover underlying needs, shift people from entrenched positions & other frameworks to create an optimal environment for healthy conflict.ABOUT JORDAN ADLERJordan M. Adler (@jordanmadler) is the Head of Developer Engineering at OneSignal, where he drives the cutting edge of cross-platform customer engagement messaging APIs & SDKs. Previously, Jordan evolved Engineering Productivity at Cruise, led API Platform engineering at Pinterest, and was a Strategic Partner Engineer and Developer Advocate at Google, where he managed technical partnerships between major organizations and Google.“Looking at the conflict in particular, how do we switch from 'positions' to 'interests?'Right. So how do we take away from... ‘Hey, this is what I want, this is what you want.’To... ‘This is the reason that I have a particular want. And this is the reason that you have a particular want. And if we have clarity together, collectively on what those interests are, then we can collaboratively work towards a solution.’"- Jordan Adler    The ELC Virtual Summit is BACK on April 20th-22nd!We’re bringing together engineering leaders from around the world to surface fresh industry insights & help you build peer support. Don’t miss out on expert conversations, peer-led roundtables & workshops to help you accelerate your leadership growth.Learn more and register HERE: sfelc.com/summit2022 SHOW NOTES:Conflict optimization vs. conflict resolution (2:33)Engineering leaders need to embrace conflict (4:34)Conflict is necessary for collaboration (5:52)What creates conflict in engineering teams? (8:32)A real example of conflict optimization (10:31)How conflict optimization leads to better decisions (13:21)Using conflict as constraints to produce better solutions (15:24)How to optimize a conflict (17:38)Switching from "positions" to "interests" (20:26)Uncovering the underlying emotional needs in a conflict (23:24)How to use words that convey curiosity and not emotional violence (25:58)Why video calls are key to conflict resolution in remote work (28:55)How to practice conflict optimization - a preview of Jordan’s workshop during ELC’s Spring Summit 2022 (35:27)Ways to avoid conflict in the first place (37:15)Rapid Fire Questions (38:49)Takeaways (42:24)LINKS AND RESOURCESJordan’s website: https://jmadler.dev/(book) Conscious Business by Fred Kofman - Jerry’s favorite book(link) David Anderson Hooker - conflict transformation source Jordan referenced(link) Diana Francis - conflict transformation source Jordan referenced(link) Non-violent communication & Dr. Marshall Roseberg

Belonging and business results are not opposing priorities! Lucius DiPhillips (CIO @ AirBnB) shares how every team member's sense of belonging is the first principle that paves the way for all other business goals. You’ll hear how Airbnb designed programs & policies to enhance belonging, support critical employee challenges, and create industry-leading retention during the height of the covid-19 pandemic & ‘great resignation’ABOUT LUCIUS DIPHILLIPSLucius DiPhillips is the Chief Information Officer (CIO) at Airbnb, where he shares the company mission to create a world where anyone can belong anywhere. He has over 20 years of experience that spans Product Development, Information Technology, Customer Service, Financial Services, Payments, eCommerce, and Trust & Safety.Prior to joining Airbnb, Lucius held multiple Technology & Operations leadership roles at eBay, PayPal, Bank of America, and General Electric. He is originally from upstate New York where he earned a Bachelor of Science degree in Management Information Systems from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute.He has a Bachelor’s Degree in Management Information Systems from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute and serves as the executive sponsor for several diversity and belonging groups and initiatives across the company. Through his sponsorship, Lucius has been instrumental in helping to improve the ways in which Airbnb attracts and retains diverse technical talent.Lucius has 2 children, a lovely wife, and a new puppy in the family! He is based in Silicon Valley, but also enjoys spending as much time as he can in the Tahoe area."And that's what the survey told us... People are missing that sense of community, people are missing flexibility, people are missing warmth and acknowledgment... That was really it!Ask people, 'what do they need?' And then deliver what they need.And it's really about being in tune and listening and learning and then delivering on what those things are gonna look like for the people."- Lucius DiPhillips   The ELC Virtual Summit is BACK on April 20th-22nd!We’re bringing together engineering leaders from around the world to surface fresh industry insights & help you build peer support. Don’t miss out on expert conversations, peer-led roundtables & workshops to help you accelerate your leadership growth.Learn more and register HERE: sfelc.com/summit2022SHOW NOTES:Why engineering leaders need to create a sense of belonging (2:34)How (and why) Airbnb measures belonging (4:16)Re-inventing the coffee-chat, coordinated no-meeting-days, and other wellness practices that work (7:31)Creating a culture of idea sharing and support for employee-led initiatives (11:17)The impact of implementing the Native Genius framework for all 500 of Airbnb’s team members (12:43)Using a framework for career conversations as a belonging and engagement strategy (15:45)Lucius’ template for career conversations (17:29)Achieving some of the lowest turnover rates, in a company with some of the lowest turnover rates in the industry… during the great resignation! (25:04)Lucius’ mentoring story on the impact of career conversations on burnout & retention (25:45)You CAN balance career development conversations with business goals (28:54)How to be a “multiplier” and facilitate the best work from your team members (33:09)Effective retention strategies during the “Great Resignation”(37:21)How leaders can use an Airbnb “host” mindset to tune into their people's needs (44:50)Investing in the tools for the future of work (48:51)Rapid-fire questions (56:44)Takeaways (1:03:08)LINKS AND RESOURCES(tool) Topia.io - AR/VR virtual meetup & community tool Lucius experimented with his team(book) “Multipliers” by Liz Wiseman(coaching/workshop) "Native Genius" - workshop & consulting to activate innate intelligence with Kristen Wheeler (resource) Native Genius - workbook from Liz Wiseman to understand your team’s Native Genius

M&As can be a major disruption for engineering orgs… so how can eng leaders strategically approach deal structuring in a way that benefits instead of distracts? Melody Hildebrandt (EVP Eng / CISO @ Fox Corporation & COO @ Blockchain Creative Labs) shares her experience representing the tech org during the biggest deal in entertainment history, what she learned negotiating on behalf of the tech org, and how they were able to use the event to accelerate innovation and productivity.ABOUT MELODY HILDEBRANDTMelody Hildebrandt (@mhil) is the Chief Information Security Officer at FOX and Chief Operating Officer of its subsidiary Blockchain Creative Labs (BCL). She is responsible for the cyber security posture of the entire business, spanning Fox Sports, Fox News, and Fox Entertainment. She also leads technology Merger & Acquisition efforts, identifying areas for investment of the company, leading to her current operating leadership role of FOX’s expansion into NFT and other blockchain technologies through the $100m creative fund of BCL.Previously, she ran product and engineering for all digital experiences across web, mobile, and living room applications within the FOX brands, notably leading the platform architecture to stream Super Bowl 2020, which broke all previous national video concurrency records while also setting a new quality bar with 4K/HDR. She is the Executive Sponsor of FOX Women in Technology and on the FOX Technology Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Council.She previously was the Global Chief Information Security Officer at 21st Century Fox where she was responsible for the cyber security posture of 21CF businesses including 20th Century Fox, Fox Networks Group, National Geographic Partners, Fox News, Star India and others. She moved into a larger role at FOX following the announcement of the spin-off of many assets to Disney.Before joining 21CF, she was an executive vice president of Palantir Technologies. An early employee of the company, she helped start Palantir’s Commercial work, opened its New York Office, and led Palantir’s sales, product and field execution in cyber security, anti-money laundering, and rogue trading detection. Prior to that, she consulted to US and international governments with Booz Allen Hamilton where she designed military and strategy wargames."One thing that we intervened on very quickly because we were AT the table for (the conversation), "How should we structure the deal?" Was to do something that was quite counter-intuitive I think, and very controversial... Which was to say ‘Let's essentially value all of our current technology assets at near-zero... And make them part of the deal.’"- Melody Hildebrandt   SHOW NOTES:Background on the Fox Disney “mega-deal” (3:14)How to structure an M&A to accelerate your tech roadmap (5:45)Motivating engineering teams with forcing functions (10:07)What it was like representing a tech org in deal structuring (13:22)How to develop an engineering org’s merger strategy (18:00)M&A negotiation tips for engineering leaders (20:41)A critical skill for eng leaders: converting tech pains into business goals (23:45)How to get executive buy-in on engineering initiatives (29:01)“Crashing” your way to a seat at the table (32:18)Melody’s process for setting the strategic direction of an engineering org (33:37)Managing engineering teams from high and low — the middle is death (36:02)Why this M&A event continues to accelerate innovation (39:10)Rapid-Fire Questions (44:18)Takeaways (49:10)LINKS AND RESOURCES(article) A super-powered approach to tech transformation - Melody Hildebrandt& Paul Cheesborough’s article on the untold story of the 21st Century Fox & Disney transaction(podcast) Conversations with Tyler esteemed economist Tyler Cowen engages with today’s most underrated thinkers in wide-ranging explorations of their work, the world, and everything in between.(book) Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir(reference) The Masked Singer NFT project - www.maskverse.com

The quest to “find flow” as an eng leader can be elusive! Rob Zuber (CTO @ CircleCI) shares about his personal quest to find flow, refining/refocusing responsibilities as CTO, and why he brought on an SVPE to support. Plus some of the personal discovery frameworks & executive-level delegation practices that may aid your own quest to find flow as an engineering leader.ABOUT ROB ZUBERRob Zuber is a 20-year veteran of software startups; a three-time founder, and five-time CTO. Since joining CircleCI, Rob has seen the company through its Series F funding and delivered on product innovation at scale while leading a team of 150+ engineers distributed worldwide.Before CircleCI, Rob was the CTO and Co-founder of Distiller, Continuous Integration and Deployment platform for mobile applications acquired by CircleCI in 2014. Before that, he cofounded Copious an online social marketplace. Rob was the CTO and Co-founder of Yoohoot, a technology company that enabled local businesses to connect with nearby consumers acquired by Appconomy in 2011.Rob holds a Bachelor’s degree in Applied Science from Queen’s University in Kingston, Ontario, and lives in Oakland, California with his wife and two children."When you start a company or you end up leading a very small company, the decision about how many people you end up managing is external forces on the company. The company just grows and your team grows to support it. And no one is saying, ‘Hey, it looks like you're ready for this...’And so I think so often what you see is early leaders end up exiting because that transition happens faster than they were prepared for. To me, that's a really fascinating dynamic because a lot of people coming into organizations are both opting in and getting selected in for the stage of the organization that you have...”- Rob Zuber   SHOW NOTESRob’s reflections on recapturing the “first-time coding” experience (3:08)On finding flow as an engineering leader (6:48)How Rob thinks about his role as CTO & why he brought on an SVPE to support (10:48)The “One Thing” moment & finding flow leading engineering teams (15:21)How do you intentionally protect maker-time (20:14)Balancing challenge & support to create flow (24:21)Frameworks for personal discovery or delegating executive responsibilities (29:35)On introducing resets & retro-ing your org (34:41)Rapid-Fire Questions (38:37)Takeaways (43:28)LINKS AND RESOURCES“The One Thing: The Surprisingly Simple Truth Behind Extraordinary Results” by Gary Keller (book)First Team concept (definition)How CircleCI modeled it’s security training after DEF CON’s capture the flag (article)

This is the first episode of our new series “Engineering Founders” featuring software pioneer Anna Patterson (Founder & Managing Partner @ Gradient Ventures) who shares with us emerging trends & opportunities in AI/ML! We cover how to spot emerging trends, typical mistakes AI/ML companies & founders make, how product-market fit/scaling is different vs. traditional software companies AND how to test and validate ideas in the early stages. Plus long-time listener Theo Gervet (ML Lead @ Relyance AI) joins us as a guest co-host!ABOUT ANNA PATTERSONAnna is the Founder & Managing Partner at Gradient Ventures, overseeing the fund’s global activities.Anna is an accomplished leader in the field of artificial intelligence, a serial entrepreneur, with a long history at Google. Prior to starting Gradient Ventures, Anna was Google’s Vice President of Engineering in AI - integrating AI into products across Google. She also serves on the Board of Directors at Square, Inc.Early in her career at Google, she helped launch and scale Android to over a billion phones, launched Google Play, and led the search, infrastructure, and recommendations horizontals. Anna was the principal architect and inventor of TeraGoogle, Google’s search serving system, which increased the index size over 10X at the time of launch. She also helped lead search ranking efforts through Google’s IPO to determine the top ten search results.Anna co-founded Cuil, a clustering-based search engine, and wrote Recall.archive.org, the first keyword-based search engine and the largest index of the Internet Archive corpus. She wrote “Why writing your own search engine is hard” in the ACM Queue detailing this experience. Prior to that, Anna co-founded and co-authored a search engine Xift.Recognized for her technical contributions as well as her commitment to championing women in tech, Anna was awarded the Technical Leadership ABIE Award in 2016. Anna received her PhD in Computer Science from the University of Illinois Champaign-Urbana. Then she became a Research Scientist at Stanford University in Artificial Intelligence, where she worked with Carolyn Talcott and one of the founders of AI, John McCarthy. For her undergrad, she double-majored in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science at Washington University in St Louis.Anna resides in the Bay Area, where she wrangles her 4 kids, 2 horses and her Irish husband."When you set out your plan, you can't miss all of your sales targets and make all of your hiring targets." Those kinds of things have to be inline.What people do is they just say, "Here's my plan. I'm going to march towards the plan. And it was super optimistic on the sales front and on the revenue front. And then maybe more realistic and achievable on the hiring front. And so they still kind of march ahead with the plan.I think that you need to constantly reevaluate where you are and on what direction you're going in and whether the growth is appropriate or even the plan was appropriate..."- Anna Patterson   Check out our friends and sponsor, Jellyfish. Jellyfish helps you align engineering work with business priorities and enables you to make better strategic decisions.Learn more at Jellyfish.co/elcAre you an eng leader interested in taking the leap to start your own company? Check out our brand new podcast series, Engineering Founders - Where we explore the transition from eng leader to founder!Subscribe on your preferred podcast platform HERE!SHOW NOTES:Anna’s background scaling complex systems (4:00)Emerging trends and opportunities in AI/ML (9:19)The biggest fallacy in AI/ML right now (15:03)The pendulum swing between model-first and data-first (16:14)What’s after deep learning? (18:14)Machine learning and source code (20:06)What will be the most valuable companies with ML as the core value proposition? (25:04)How to spot emerging trends in the AI/ML space (27:43)Typical mistakes AI/ML companies & founders make (31:16)How product-market fit is different for AI/ML companies (34:30)Differences in scaling between trad-software and AI/ML (35:20)How to test and validate ideas in the early-stages of an AI/ML company (37:49)Rapid-Fire Questions (39:38)LINKS AND RESOURCESGradient Ventures (Website)Streamlit.io (Website) - collaborative Python-based app-sharing platformBuilding Your AI A-Team (Link) - Anna and Adrien Treuille’s talk from the ELC 2020 Summit discussing how managing an AI team is different from traditional engineering teams & how to think about the collaboration between AI and engineering when scaling

What lessons can you learn from the strange and unfamiliar world of the sales team? Maulie Dass (Global Lead @ Cisco Innovation Labs) has experienced both worlds and joins to share what she’s learned! We cover questions to help you get to the root issues of your customer, design thinking strategies to generate customer empathy in your teams, how to balance product vision vs. feature requests from sales & more!ABOUT MAULIE DASSMaulie Dass (@mauliedass) is the Global Lead for Cisco's Innovation Labs, which works closely with local industries to create new technology solutions that solve common pain points and positively impact business, society, and the planet. She has been in the industry for over 20 years in a variety of tech, strategic, and customer-facing leadership roles. Maulie is passionate about her customers, innovation, technology, inclusivity, and cheese pizza."Even if a customer is very clear on a solution that they want... "I need an AI ML solution that does X, Y, Z." The question that I use often is "Tell me more about that? Like, what is instigating this need?" Think of the next question that'll kind of get you closer and closer to the source, or the root of the issue."- Maulie Dass   SHOW NOTES:Maulie shares the “expensive lessons” she learned while designing her first microchip (2:00)How learning and curiosity guided Maulie’s career across engineering, sales, and innovation (6:19)What engineering leaders can learn from sales (11:07)“Seek to understand first” & questions Maulie uses to empathize (17:30)When should leaders stop asking questions? (21:57)How to use the design thinking tool “A Day in the Life” to cultivate customer empathy and communicate between engineering and product (23:05)How to navigate your product vision versus feature requests from sales (28:45)How to manage and sustain your personal energy long-term (32:40)The impact of changing your communication style & having cultural awareness (36:03)Rapid-Fire Questions (39:17)Takeaways (42:19)LINKS AND RESOURCESGet-Woke on Github - A tool to detect non-inclusive language in your source-codeMismatch: How Inclusion Shapes Design (Amazon) - Maulie’s book of choice for avoiding accidental exclusion in the world around us Check out our friends and sponsor, Jellyfish. Jellyfish helps you align engineering work with business priorities and enables you to make better strategic decisions.Learn more at Jellyfish.co/elcLooking for other ways to get involved with ELC? Check out all of our upcoming events, peer groups, and other programs at www.sfelc.com!

Lewis Tuff (VP of Engineering @ Blockchain.com) joins us to share his experience on building a career in the cryptocurrency space! We cover his transition from traditional finance/tech to crypto, how to shift your mindset from centralized to decentralized, qualities that lead to success, tactics to help you gain exposure and experience, AND why it’s not too late to start your career in crypto! ABOUT LEWIS TUFFLewis (@tuffleuk) is the Vice President of Engineering at Blockchain.com where he is responsible for the technology underpinning Blockchain.com’s services. As the 2nd engineering hire at Revolut, he scaled the team to 50+ and spearheaded the initiative to bring cryptocurrencies to Revolut. He built the first of its kind crypto offering within a challenger bank over the course of a couple of months and was responsible for bringing $300M+ trading revenue in due course. In March 2018 Lewis joined Blockchain.com as an engineering lead to be part of one of the most important companies in crypto infrastructure, rising to the Head of Platform Engineering as the company and industry grew. That same year he was included on Business Insider’s “35 under 35” in fintech. Lewis began his career building trading and risk technology systems at Goldman Sachs and UBS. He lives in London.SHOW NOTES:Patrick’s FOMO after learning his dad owned Doge-coin… (2:03)How Lewis went from traditional finance to a career in blockchain/crypto (3:35)One question to help you gain career perspective as an engineering leader (9:36)The principles behind blockchain technology that led Lewis to “go all in” (10:34)Are blockchain engineering challenges harder to solve? (13:03)Unprecedented (but not unsolvable) problems in blockchain (14:56)Staying lean & focused while balancing team size & scope (19:47)Making the transition from "centralized" to "decentralized" thinking (24:07)How to use Github to source great engineering candidates (28:07)Do engineering leaders need to be domain experts to manage teams in blockchain/crypto? (30:15)How engineering leadership is similar in blockchain companies & crypto’s ethos of “paying it forward” (33:29)Why it’s not too late to start a career in blockchain/crypto (36:14)How blockchain leverages the power of community (38:44)The first thing you should do to explore a career in blockchain: Try out the products & technology! (45:25)Where are the hottest markets/locations for cryptocurrency right now? (46:46)Rapid-Fire Questions (47:41)Takeaways (50:20)LINKS AND RESOURCESCryptocurrency on Github - Repositories, packages, and more for the budding engineers who want to get their feet wet.Check out our friends and sponsor, Jellyfish. Jellyfish helps you align engineering work with business priorities and enables you to make better strategic decisions.Learn more at Jellyfish.co/elcLooking for other ways to get involved with ELC? Check out all of our upcoming events, peer groups, and other programs at www.sfelc.com!

Jeremy King (SVP of Engineering @ Pinterest) discusses some of the challenges, principles & frameworks behind building inclusive products. We also cover filtering decisions through your company mission, investing in rest and emerging challenges around creating serendipity with ideas, onboarding, retaining talent and the hard logistics of workplace flexibility.ABOUT JEREMY KINGJeremy King is Senior Vice President of Engineering at Pinterest, where he leads the company’s technical direction and oversees the entire Engineering team building deeply technical products, platforms and machine learning systems. Previously, he was the CTO of Walmart, where he led the digital transformation effort of the company including customer technology, merchant technology and supply chain technology that covered all Walmart U.S. stores and eCommerce. Prior to that, King was Executive Vice President of technology at LiveOps, and Vice President of engineering and software development at eBay. He holds a bachelor’s degree in information technology from San Jose State University, and is an advisory board member for the CTO Forum, an organization that brings together senior leaders across the technology industry to collaborate on key issues and accelerate innovation across organizations.SHOW NOTES:Building inclusive products starts by having diverse data setsWhy your data is probably biased alreadyWhere to start with building inclusive productsThree principles to build inclusive productsHow Pinterest disrupts entrenched patterns of thinking & balances innovation and actionHow to decide which experiments to implementWhy ROI should not be the only metric of effectivenessHow to filter decisions through your company’s missionHow AR aligns with Pinterest’s mission & allows “Pinners” to explore & experiment with different identitiesCovid’s impact on retaining talentHow “investing in rest” & cultivating work-life balance can increase productivityHow to schedule a day off for your entire engineering orgUpcoming Industry Challenges: building in serendipity, onboarding in a remote-first workplace & the logistics of workplace flexibilityRapid-Fire QuestionsTakeawaysLINKS AND RESOURCESInclusive Search and Recommendations - Nadia Fawaz’s talk on How Inclusive Search, & AI works at PinterestCheck out our friends and sponsor, Jellyfish. Jellyfish helps you align engineering work with business priorities and enables you to make better strategic decisions.Learn more at Jellyfish.co/elcLooking for other ways to get involved with ELC? Check out all of our upcoming events, peer groups, and other programs at www.sfelc.com!

This conversation is about BURNOUT! You’ll hear holistic perspectives to help you identify the causes, conditions, & early indicators of burnout. Plus organizational & individual practices to address & become resilient to burnout with Sabry Tozin (VPE @ LinkedIn), Lori Allen (VP HR @ LinkedIn), & Erica Lockheimer (VPE, LinkedIn Talent Solutions, LinkedIn Learning & Glint @ LinkedIn).About Erica LockheimerErica Lockheimer is VP of Engineering, Talent Solutions, Learning, and Glint @ LinkedIn. During her more than 10 years at the company, she built the Growth Engineering team into a high-performing 120-person team, focused on increasing membership, and deepening member engagement. In January 2018, she was promoted to Head of Engineering for the LinkedIn Learning team, formerly known as Lynda.com. She is also responsible for LinkedIn’s Women In Tech (WIT) initiative, which is focused on empowering women in technical roles at the company. Prior to LinkedIn, she worked at Good Technology as Director of Server Engineering to securely manage and synchronize e-mail and calendar data between Exchange and mobile devices. Erica loves the challenge of starting with something nascent and carving out the right strategy, hiring the best people, and plotting a course to drive results. In 2014 and 2015, Erica was recognized as one of the top 22 women engineers in the world by Business Insider.About Sabry TozinSabry Tozin is the Vice President of Enterprise Productivity Engineering at LinkedIn. In this capacity, Sabry leads the organization that powers the productivity of LinkedIn employees through innovative, scalable, and secure information technology solutions. Before joining LinkedIn, Sabry held engineering leadership roles at Netflix and IGN Entertainment. He’s a seasoned technology leader with over 20 years of experience in Silicon Valley.About Lori AllenLori is a Speaker and Coach and serves as VP of Human Resources, Engineering for LinkedIn. LinkedIn’s Mission is to create economic opportunity for every member of the global workforce which aligns to Lori’s personal goal of helping others reach their full potential.   She has spent the last 20+ years as an HR Leader responsible for designing talent strategies and partnering with Executives to drive business results. Lori is passionate about Diversity Inclusion and belonging and was named in the 2018 list of women worth watching in the Profiles in Diversity Journal.Originally from Wichita, Kansas, she graduated from the University of Kansas with a BA and later received a master’s degree from Webster University.   Lori has resided in the Bay area for the past 20+ years and has had the privilege of workingShownotesBurnout in Q1-2021 & what caused LinkedIn to take a company-wide week off (3:31)Are patterns of burnout repeating with the new covid variant? (7:59)What are the causes, conditions, & indicators of burnout in engineering orgs? (12:19)How to detect & identify the early signs of burnout in your engineering team (19:14)Favorite non-invasive "how are you doing" questions to get better signal from your engineering team (23:47)How to build resilience against burnout by leveraging Lencioni’s “First Team Concept” (31:01)Conversation framework for internal mobility (36:44)Erica, Lori & Sabry’s personal practices to prevent burnout (40:29)What do you admire most about working with each other? (42:31)Takeaways (44:59)Check out our friends and sponsor, Jellyfish. Jellyfish helps you align engineering work with business priorities and enables you to make better strategic decisions.Learn more at Jellyfish.co/elcLooking for other ways to get involved with ELC? Check out all of our upcoming events, peer groups, and other programs at www.sfelc.com!

Our 2022 season starts next week on Tues 1/4! Check out this trailer for a preview of our first few guests covering topics like burnout, building inclusive products, and making the career transition into crypto! Looking for other ways to get involved with ELC? Check out all of our upcoming events, peer groups, and other programs at https://sfelc.com/ !