The Argument

Matthew Yglesias, a national political writer focused on liberal politics, discusses the pitfalls of modern liberalism. He critiques the shift from individual judgment to group identity, arguing it undermines core liberal values. Yglesias tackles how statistical discrimination harms individuals and the issues with prioritizing group representation over effective policy. He also explores the impact of these identity-driven ideas on political discourse and urges the left to reassess strategies to regain a balanced approach.

Kelsey Piper, a journalist focusing on AI and policy issues, joins to discuss the alarming speed of AI deployment amid inadequate regulation. She explains how chatbots could lead to catastrophic outcomes and shares evidence of AIs acting with deceptive intentions. Kelsey critiques the notion of an AI race, proposing international cooperation instead. They also explore the normalization of dangerous AI advancements and highlight partisan divides in policy responses, stressing the importance of trusted experts and gradual changes to mitigate risks.

At the end of the year, I wanted to revisit our very first podcast conversation with some of my favorite liberal journalists. In our very first live show in Washington, D.C., Derek Thompson, Ezra Klein, and Matt Yglesias joined me for a disagreement-ridden conversation to tape the first episode of our new video podcast, The Argument.We talk about why Matt spends so much of his time arguing with the left, whether Ezra thinks it matters “who shot first” as the right ramps up its attacks, why Derek picked a fight with the New Antitrust Movement, and much, much more.The Argument is a podcast dedicated to honest, unflinching debate about the biggest questions facing democracy, culture, and our future. As the host, I will bring together voices across the political spectrum to argue, challenge, and persuade. Each episode is a space where disagreements are confronted directly with clarity and conviction, rather than hidden or shouted down.Editor’s note: This episode was taped on Sept. 5, before the assassination of Charlie Kirk and the escalating threats from the Trump administration.For a full-length, ad-free version of our video podcast, you can become a paid subscriber. You can watch the full version with ads for free by subscribing to our YouTube channel here. The audio version is also available wherever you get your podcasts.Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Overcast | Pocket CastsArticles discussed:“Messing With Texas: How Big Homebuilders and Private Equity Made American Cities Unaffordable” by Basel Musharbash“The Anti-Abundance Critique on Housing Is Dead Wrong” by Derek Thompson“How do we live with each other?” by Jerusalem Demsas“How to Blow Up a Planet” by Trevor Jackson“What I Got Wrong About DEI” by Eugenia ChengThe Argument's production team includes Ranjani Chakraborty, Mylan Cannon, Isabella Pereira, Angela Tracy, Eli Richman, and Kate Crawford with music by Breakmaster Cylinder. If you want to hear more of The Argument, you can become a subscriber at The ArgumentMag.com.

Why is far-right populism on the rise? Political scientist Gabriele Gratton has a controversial theory: For decades, technocrats moved policy decisions — on austerity, climate, and more – away from the realm of mass politics and toward independent authorities, courts, and experts. The result? A populist backlash fueled by the desire to reassert control over policy.In Gratton's telling, the populist backlash isn't irrational; it's a democratic response to elite failure. But his prescription isn't to abandon liberalism. This conversation explores how we got here and whether liberal democracy can course-correct before it's too late.The Argument is a podcast dedicated to honest, unflinching debate about the biggest questions facing democracy, culture, and our future. As the host, Jerusalem Demsas brings together voices across the political spectrum to argue, challenge, and persuade. Each episode is a space where disagreements are confronted directly, with clarity and conviction, rather than hidden or shouted down.We want to hear from you! If you liked the episode, disagreed with it, or have a guest or episode suggestion, reach out at podcast@theargumentmag.com.For a full-length, ad-free version of our podcast, you can become a paid subscriber. You can watch the full version with ads for free by subscribing to our YouTube channel. The audio version is also available wherever you get your podcasts.Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Overcast | Pocket CastsThe Argument podcast with Jerusalem Demsas is available wherever you get podcasts. New shows drop every Monday. If you like the show, leave a comment and ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen.Articles, studies, and posts referenced in the episode can be found on our website.The Argument's production team includes Ranjani Chakraborty, Mylan Cannon, Isabella Pereira, Angela Tracy, Eli Richman, and Kate Crawford with music by Breakmaster Cylinder. If you want to hear more of The Argument, you can become a subscriber at The ArgumentMag.com.

Kelsey Piper, a staff writer focused on education, dives into America's literacy challenges, emphasizing Mississippi's successful reading reforms. She explains the detrimental shift from phonics to guessing-based reading strategies and highlights how Mississippi's phonics-heavy approach drastically improved student outcomes. Kelsey also discusses the politics surrounding these reforms and the resistance other states face in adopting similar methods. Their conversation touches on broader education issues, accountability, and the need for clear standards to elevate literacy and learning.

Economist Sahil Chinoy, known for his extensive research on economic beliefs and zero-sum thinking, joins host Jerusalem Demsas to explore why many feel threatened by immigration. They dive into Chinoy's large study linking family histories, economic attitudes, and the rise of zero-sum perspectives among younger Americans. The discussion touches on how economic stagnation fuels a sense of scarcity and why certain policy topics trigger zero-sum instincts. They also examine the potential for shifting these entrenched beliefs through persuasion and policy change.

Rising income inequality hurts democracy, health, happiness, and basically anything you can think of … right? Sociologist Lane Kenworthy doesn't think so. In his new book Is Inequality The Problem? Kenworthy argued that inequality is overrated as “the” cause of our problems — and discussed why the data pushes him toward a different set of priorities. Host Jerusalem Demsas is skeptical. Together, they dig into happiness, health, and populism, and they discuss why expanding the social welfare state might matter more than obsessing over the 1%.The Argument is a podcast dedicated to honest, unflinching debate about the biggest questions facing democracy, culture, and our future. As the host, Jerusalem Demsas brings together voices across the political spectrum to argue, challenge, and persuade. Each episode is a space where disagreements are confronted directly, with clarity and conviction, rather than hidden or shouted down.We want to hear from you! If you liked the episode, disagreed with it, or have a guest or episode suggestion, reach out at podcast@theargumentmag.com.For a full-length, ad-free version of our podcast, you can become a paid subscriber. You can watch the full version with ads for free by subscribing to our YouTube channel. The audio version is also available wherever you get your podcasts.Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Overcast | Pocket CastsThe Argument podcast with Jerusalem Demsas is available wherever you get podcasts. New shows drop every Monday. If you like the show, leave a comment and ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen.Articles, studies, and posts referenced in the episode can be found on our website.The Argument's production team includes Ranjani Chakraborty, Mylan Cannon, Isabella Pereira, Angela Tracy, Eli Richman, and Kate Crawford with music by Breakmaster Cylinder. If you want to hear more of The Argument, you can become a subscriber at The ArgumentMag.com.

Robinson Meyer, founding editor of Heatmap News and a former Atlantic climate reporter, dives into the complicated world of U.S. climate politics. He discusses the Inflation Reduction Act and its unexpected shortcomings, particularly how it failed to win back young voters. Meyer explores the challenges of biodiversity loss, reveals why many clean energy projects favor red states, and debates the necessity of a right-wing climate constituency. His insights illuminate the complex landscape of climate advocacy and the political hurdles that lie ahead.

Silicon Valley’s sharp right turn didn’t come out of nowhere. Former tech worker and current tech writer Jasmine Sun walks us through how a once-solidly liberal sector became MAGA-curious. We talk about:The rise of “effective accelerationism” (E/acc)Why parts of the tech elite feel betrayed by the Biden administrationHow backlash to regulation, internal employee revolts, crypto crackdowns, and AI safety debates pushed founders toward Trumpworld Sun maps the ideological split between the engineers who see themselves as the last “live players” in American society and the regulators who believe they’re the only ones standing between the public and untested technology.This episode is also about the culture of progress. Host Jerusalem Demsas and Sun, who both attended Progress Conference in October, share their observations about the emerging populist backlash to AI, the failure of the DOGE experiment, Chinese AI and manufacturing strategies, and the widening value gap between tech elites and the rest of the country. The Argument is a podcast dedicated to honest, unflinching debate about the biggest questions facing democracy, culture, and our future. As the host, Jerusalem Demsas brings together voices across the political spectrum to argue, challenge, and persuade. Each episode is a space where disagreements are confronted directly, with clarity and conviction, rather than hidden or shouted down.We want to hear from you! If you liked the episode, disagreed with it, or have a guest or episode suggestion, reach out at jerusalem@theargumentmag.com.For a full-length, ad-free version of our podcast, you can become a paid subscriber. You can watch the full version with ads for free by subscribing to our YouTube channel here. The audio version is also available wherever you get your podcasts.Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Overcast | Pocket CastsThe Argument podcast with Jerusalem Demsas is available wherever you get podcasts. New shows drop every Monday. If you like the show, leave a comment and ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen.Articles, studies, and posts referenced in the episode can be found on our website at https://www.theargumentmag.com/s/the-argument-podcastThe Argument's production team includes Ranjani Chakraborty, Mylan Cannon, Isabella Pereira, Angela Tracy, Eli Richman, and Kate Crawford with music by Breakmaster Cylinder. If you want to hear more of The Argument, you can become a subscriber at The ArgumentMag.com.

Bill McKibben, a pioneering climate writer and activist, joins to discuss the urgent transition from fossil fuels to clean energy. He argues that solar, wind, and batteries are now the cheapest energy sources, emphasizing the importance of reframing climate messaging to focus on affordability. McKibben highlights global successes like balcony solar in Europe and the swift adoption of renewables in Texas. The conversation also tackles the challenges posed by NIMBYism, the role of carbon capture, and the need for continued subsidies to accelerate the clean energy transition.