The Resilient Recruiter

“Everything is cyclical.” Recruiters and recruitment business owners who have been in the industry for many years understand that no matter how bad the hiring market is, things will get better. This is exactly the approach and mindset of Nick Cabral, our special guest, that enabled them to navigate the 2008-09 recession successfully.   Nick is the Principal of Boston Investment Staffing Group. He specializes in permanent and contract placements within the investment and financial services industry. They focus on working with boutique investment managers and becoming an integral partner in their hiring process.   He has carved out a successful entrepreneurial path, starting his business amidst the challenges of 2009, and weathering the storm of the 2008 recession. Nick’s tales of waiting for the first deal and his survival strategies are packed with priceless insights and advice that a lot of recruitment business owners will find valuable today.    Episode Outline and Highlights   [02:03] How Nick got into the recruiting industry. [07:27] Nick’s significant learnings when working with Boston Networking Group. [11:39] What prompted Nick to launch Boston Investment Staffing Group in 2009? [14:31] Navigating the uncertainties of the 2008-09 recession. [19:11] Nick shares his candidate-centric approach to recruiting and how it led to relationship building. [25:43] Discussion on the respect component in a recruitment process. [29:17] The art of building professional relationships in a post-pandemic environment.  [37:36] Understanding and applying the rule of ten. [42:58] The significance of asking the right questions to candidates.   Navigating the Uncertainties of the 2008-09 Recession   Being in the industry for more than two decades, Nick has built an outstanding career as a recruiter and a recruitment business owner. In our conversation, he was more than generous and shared the significant learnings he had when he worked with his previous employer. He also gave context on what prompted him to launch his own recruitment firm, during the 2008-09 recession.    His experience resonates well with me as Nick and I had the same experience during those unfavorable market conditions. I admire his mindset and resilience. He believes that everything is cyclical, and eventually, things will start to pick up again. He also emphasized, “So I think my mindset was keep doing the work, keep making sure that you are contacting clients and candidates and staying on their radar. You're not going anywhere. This is what you're going to do, and I think because of that kind of never-equipped mentality. It led to all right, 2010 got better, and then 11 was even better, and then 12 was a banner year, and so it was hard but manageable. I think you just got to kind of stay grounded in the fact that if you do the work, it will get where you want it to go.”   I know that 2023 is not like the 2008-09 recession, but it appears to be a weird year for some markets. If you are experiencing a slowdown in the industry you are supporting, Nick’s advice of just staying in the course, keeping doing the work, and focusing on what you can control can help. Remember that this is cyclical.   Building Relationships and Asking Reflective Questions   Nick and I also discussed critical topics on relationship-building which includes the value of meeting in person as well as asking the right questions to your clients and candidates. He also emphasized the importance of the ‘respect component’ in the recruitment process. He shared these three factors that contribute greatly to his success, and it was an astonishing discussion because, in the end, you will find that these are interrelated to one another.   The importance of meeting in person. He shared how he does virtual preps and trying to get back in person for face-to-face meetings. He shares how he has been able to build relationships further due to the emphasis on “IRL meetings” which is much different than just a quick phone call.   The respect component goes both ways. Nick elaborated on how he believes respect helps him build a long-term client and candidate base. He specifically mentioned how giving constructive feedback and transparency to candidates is a critical act of respect.   Asking the right questions. “Do you want this job?” is an effective question that can be a game changer when building candidate relationships. Nick is not just focused on making placement, instead, he assures all candidates that he wants the best for them by focusing on their long-term growth.    Applying the Rule of Ten   Nick also shared his 'rule of 10' which helps him to stay on track with his goals and activities. Basically, the premise is that in every ten pieces of activity, you will have one placement. This is how he described it: “In the rule of ten, if you have ten pieces of activity, it's going to lead to one placement, right, so that could be a candidate, so say it's your candidate and your client will count that as two, right, but if you have ten pieces of activity, odds are you're going to, you're going to have one placement and you could get lucky and hit three or four, you could be unlucky and you don't hit any. And where it really gets exciting is if you have, say, when you get up to 20 or 25 pieces of activity all at once.”   He uses this goal-oriented way of thinking when training junior recruiters and so far it has been effective in motivating their team to stay on track with activities.    Our Sponsor   This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained   Nick Cabral Bio and Contact Info   Nick started his recruiting career in 2003 and has significant experience working with permanent and contract financial services professionals. Nick has worked with many large financial institutions and small boutique investment managers and has become an integral part of their hiring process. Nick graduated from Bentley University with a degree in Finance and a minor in Philosophy.   Nick on LinkedIn Boston Investment Staffing Group website link   Non-Profit Organizations that Nick supports:   Dana-Farber Cancer Institute website link American Cancer Society website link   People and Resources Mentioned   Andrea Collabella on LinkedIn Abigail Stevens on LinkedIn   Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach   Related Podcast You Might Enjoy   TRR#167 3 Simple Steps to Increase Your Billings from 6 to 7-Figures, with Andrea Colabella TRR#104 International Recruitment: Hard Won Insights From Placing People Around the World for 25 Years, with Abigail Stevens Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter   If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.  “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.

When a life-changing event like the birth of a child happens, it often forces us to re-evaluate our careers and lives. That's exactly what happened to my special guest, Enric Miquel, the founder of Pharma New Talent, a life sciences recruitment firm.    After becoming a father, Enric embarked on a new journey from pharmaceuticals to recruitment, and in this episode, he shares the highs and lows of starting his own recruitment firm. We also delve deep into the world of international recruitment as Enric shares his experiences with hiring a virtual assistant. He discusses the pros and cons of such a move and offers insightful advice for recruiters considering the same path.    Finally, we explore the hard-earned wisdom Enric has gained from his journey. From building confidence as an established leader in the recruitment industry to dealing with the challenges of raising his fees, Enric's story will show you the value of resilience and dedication.     Prior to launching his recruitment company, he was an International Brand Manager in charge of the Middle East and Asia Regions, having launched medical products in 8 different countries. Growing with the company from 500K € in 2014 to 10 million in 2021 I’ve worked with Enric, as a member of our coaching program and he is a massive action taker who has implemented many of the strategies we teach.    Episode Outline and Highlights   [01:52] Inspiration to start a recruitment firm. [10:40] How Enric propelled business growth through investment in training and self-improvement. [13:49] Forgoing consultancy safety net and transitioning to 100% recruiting. [16:45] Recruiting internationally and embracing new markets. [26:16] Hiring a VA for sourcing and recruitment. [30:34] Challenges and rewards of pivoting from contingent to retained recruiting. [36:00] Why Enric started a podcast and how it contributes to his business. [42:02] Overcoming impostor syndrome is the biggest challenge. [48:25] Discussion on tracking metrics and KPIs.   Inspiration to Starting and Growing a Recruitment Firm   Enric had no recruitment background when he decided to transition into recruitment. What prompted him to jump out of his comfort zone was when his daughter was born which made him rethink his priorities.    “One of the most important to think about when starting the business was the date of giving birth, or my partner giving birth to my daughter Olivia was to me a way to rethink priorities. What did I want it to do in life? Especially, this came after COVID. Also, this was a period of long reflections on what would I want it to do next. But you are right, I didn't have any recruitment agency background. I haven't been a recruiter on my own. I was a product manager.” There were at least three key factors that propelled Enric to his success:   He can spot opportunities and connect the dots. Enric shared how he was able to close out big placements through his network.   He invests heavily in coaching and training. Enric approached me back when he was just starting his recruitment firm. “I need to train my skills 100% to keep growing the business, and also not only when you are a startup. It's tough, but especially if you're a solo recruiter, you need to be part of a wider community, you need to be part of the crowd, and joining the Inner Circle group gave me that. So, even though it was a big investment because if you look at the percentage of investment in my year plan and the part of the revenue that was taken from my investment in training was very big and very representative it turned out to be the best decision I could make because I more than doubled my revenue in the next year.”   He is a strong implementor. Enric is a role model in implementation. He can implement critical elements in our coaching group which has contributed to success. The implementations include hiring a VA, creating value-adding content via LinkedIn and other platforms, marketing through podcasts, and pivoting from contingency to retained.   Business Development Implementations Enric and I covered topics on implementations that would resonate with a lot of recruitment business owners. Given that he has no recruitment background, Enric sees things from a fresh perspective. He is aware that for his recruitment startup to succeed, he must compensate for the lack of experience by working hard and smart. Some of the key takeaways we covered are:   The importance of hiring a VA: he shared how hiring someone from Venezuela greatly helps in his North American expansion.   Creating value-adding content and running a podcast: Enric said, “I had this first experience in 2019 with podcasting. So I thought it was a great idea to build networking, and then you put the idea into my mind to start with that. So to me, podcasting is a way to build a network among candidates and clients.”   Transitioning from contingent to retained: Enric lost some clients when he had to transition to retained search. However, he believes that this is one of the best decisions he made as it brings him more joy and is best for the business in the long run.   Enric also shared how he had to let go of the safety net of pharmaceutical consulting so he could focus all his energy on recruiting to make it work. Enric believes that mindset and consistent effort led to his success.    Overcoming the Challenge Imposter Syndrome   When we delved into what he considers his biggest challenge, Enric revealed his challenge that a lot of us can relate to.    “I guess I felt kind of the famous imposter syndrome of who are you to become a recruiter overnight and that led to, you know, begin with low fees what I consider now low fees. So overcoming this syndrome, let's say, has been the most challenging... This has been probably the most challenging part that's interesting.”   Enric took proactive steps to build his confidence. He elaborated on his approach to KPIs and metrics and how it gives him confidence by objectively understanding the value that he provides to his clients.   Our Sponsor This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained   Enric Miquel Bio and Contact Info Enric Miquel is a highly accomplished professional with a diverse background in the healthcare and business sectors. He holds a Pharmacy Doctorate from the prestigious University of Barcelona, where he honed his expertise in pharmaceuticals and healthcare.   With a passion for global business development, Enric has excelled in his role as an International Brand Manager, overseeing the Middle East and Asia regions. His career highlights include successfully launching medical products in eight different countries. Under his leadership, the company experienced remarkable growth, with revenues skyrocketing from 500,000 € in 2014 to an impressive 10 million € in 2021.   In July 2021, inspired by a profound life change with the birth of his daughter, Olivia, Enric Miquel took a bold step in his entrepreneurial journey. He founded Pharma New Talent, a pioneering Life Science recruitment firm. This endeavor reflects his passion for talent development and his dedication to shaping the future of the pharmaceutical and healthcare industries.   Enric's exceptional career trajectory, marked by academic excellence, international business acumen, and a commitment to talent development, makes him a standout figure in the pharmaceutical and healthcare sectors. His journey continues to inspire and empower those around him, propelling innovation and excellence in every endeavor he undertakes.   Enric on LinkedIn Enric on Twitter Enric on Instagram Pharma New Talent website link New Talent podcast link Pharma New Talen on YouTube   People and Resources Mentioned Rich Rosen on LinkedIn Upwork   Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach   Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR# Think Like a Big Biller: How to Get Repeat Business and Referrals, with Rich Rosen Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter   If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.  “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.  

Adding management consultancy as a service offering of your recruitment agency can potentially increase your revenue. But the question is, is it easier said than done?   In this episode, you will hear insights from Colin Kleine, co-founder of Scalerr. They’re a growth advisory firm that helps Tech companies reach their revenue goals through Strategy, Execution, and People.   Colin discusses why he made the pivot from Recruiter into Management Consultant, and why recruitment was so fundamental in helping him successfully do it. He shared the challenges, key learnings, and how this transition benefits their business.    I have known Colin since 2014, he’s a former client and I’ve tracked his remarkable rise, especially since he launched Scalerr.    Episode Outline and Highlights   [02:07] Colin shared how he came across Mark and the learnings he took that transformed his billings. [05:34] The highs and lows that led Colin to start Scalerr. [11:45] Thriving during the longest COVID lockdown. [16:21] From recruitment to management consulting: Colin explains how their advisory services help clients expand internationally to increase their valuation. [28:49] Mark emphasizes how understanding the client's objectives rather than just filling roles can add more value. [38:14] How having a co-founder who is aligned with Collin’s passion became a game-changer. [48:30] Colin shares the biggest challenges that he had to face when building Scalerr. [56:13] Key success factors and milestones that led Colin and Scalerr to where they are now. [1:00:46] Colin thanks Mark for being a mentor and inspiration throughout his career. Recruitment Skills and Experience Leading to Management Consulting   How Colin pivoted from being just a recruiter to a management consultant is a story that I find fascinating. Aside from talent acquisition, Scalerr helps startup companies scale up and expand globally and increase their valuation. What propelled this shift? Colin shared three takeaways:   Understanding their client’s objectives and challenges. Colin and his team are focused on being consultative and understanding their client's journey, stresses, and pain points.   Learning from experience: having helped more than 150 companies, Colin and his team learned what makes some businesses successful and some businesses fail. They have come up with a playbook that    Leveraging his recruitment experience, Colin took lessons from the CEOs, VPs, and other key positions he placed. He said, “You learn information that somebody else is prepared to pay hundreds of millions of dollars for. So you start learning what is it that made some companies wildly successful? What is it that successful CEOs did to grow and scale a company and also understand how all of this ties in ultimately into valuation?”   The management consulting arm of their business skyrocketed, leading Colin and his team to start a venture arm.    Challenges and Solutions While Building Scalerr   Just like all business owners, Colin faced a multitude of challenges when building Scalerr. I wanted to hear what his top challenges are and how his team was able to overcome them. He shared one particular challenge that resonates with many recruitment business owners:   “Not enough hours in the day, as many entrepreneurs will do, and make this mistake of trying to do too much of it yourself. And I know there's going to be a lot of people listening to this podcast that know exactly what I'm talking about, not realizing when it's now time to start delegating things out and bringing somebody on board to do that, not knowing when to give up control and relinquish.”   Colin emphasized the importance of systemizing and delegating tasks. Not doing so and becoming overwhelmed with tasks you can delegate will be a constraint to scaling your business.   Creating a Flywheel: Pivotal Factors That Propelled Scalerr to Their Current Achievements   Another topic that stood out to me is how Colin and his team were able to create a flywheel - their consultancy work feeds their recruitment segment and vice versa. Instead of solely relying on placements as a revenue stream, they were able to establish their consultancy to the point that it could be a standalone revenue source. Colin described it this way: “I think there's a lot of mutual value added and then you start speaking to them and introducing yourself and building a relationship, and more and more people know you, and guess what? They end up giving you recruitment work.”   Colin also elaborated on the three pivotal factors that he believes contributed greatly to their current achievements:   Diversification of where they source their leads. Foundational understanding of their clients on a business level. Creating their own flywheel and not solely relying on placements as a revenue source.   Our Sponsor   This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro  i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained   Colin Kleine Bio and Contact Info   Colin specializes in forging innovative revenue streams through strategic channel partnerships, crafting accelerated GTM and Commercialization strategies, and handpicking high-impact teams with a battle-tested background in startup scaling. His expertise spans customized advisory and recruitment services, enabling swift market validation, deft navigation of the intricate APAC landscape, and securing vital venture capital and government grants. With an impressive portfolio of over 150 victorious startups, Colin's results-driven approach guarantees maximum revenue, valuation growth, and a triumphant expansion into the APAC market. As a dedicated investor and seasoned business advisor, Colin puts his money where his mouth is, committed to your success while leveraging his insider knowledge to drive your business forward.   Colin on LinkedIn Scalerr website link    People and Resources Mentioned   Allan Cutter on LinkedIn Leanne Sarah Jones Hunt on LinkedIn Traction by Gino Wickman The E Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber Who Not How by Dan Sullivan   Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter   If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.  “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.

Working 100+ hours a week nearly burned Gregg out. If running your recruitment business is stressing you out, Gregg’s story may be able to help you.   I am pleased to be joined by Gregg Salkovitch. Gregg is intentionally growing his recruitment firm to become a lifestyle business. Along the way, he learned a lot of things to achieve his goal while gaining more lifestyle freedom. You will hear insightful strategies on how Gregg is building his team and delegating tasks. We also discussed why it is critical to hire a COO to help you in scaling your business.   After a career as a top sales performer for 3 consecutive companies, Gregg co-founded a sales recruitment agency to combine the 2 things he loves most in business: sales and helping people. In 6 years, Gregg grew his company organically with no outside funding to 60 employees, reaching the Inc. 5000 for fastest growing companies 3 consecutive times.  He then started a separate recruiting company, Right Choice Resources, which specifically focuses on the placement of salespeople, executives, marketing, account management, and customer success.   Episode Outline and Highlights   [01:38] Gregg’s journey of how he got into recruiting. [04:30] When being laid off is a blessing in disguise. [10:18] Transitioning from individual contributor to a recruitment business owner: Gregg shares the challenges that they overcame. [14:51] Scaling team to 60 people in six years. [17:07] Gregg reveals his key success factors. [20:06] Character over resume: hiring strategies to get the right people. [35:11] Discussion on growth strategies for a lifestyle business. [37:02] When to hire a COO role to scale your business. [42:49] Make less money in the short term to get long-term benefits. [48:04] Transferrable skills from sales to recruiting. [52:57] What is next for Gregg and his business?   Getting Laid Off Pushed Gregg Into a Recruiting Career   Gregg shared an amazing story of resilience on how he got into the recruiting industry. Getting laid off unexpectedly pushed Gregg into a recruiting career. He loved his sales job and was blindsided when he was laid off after 4 years as a top performer. This made interviewing difficult as he had to overcome the perception that he must have underperformed despite being an actual top performer. He also had non-compete from his old company which prevented him from staying in the same industry.   Facing these challenges pushed Greg to explore a new path by using his sales skills to transition into recruiting. This pivot into recruiting ended up being life-changing for Greg's career. You will hear how he used skills he learned from sales to be an effective recruiter. He even leverages his experience of being laid off to engage with candidates. “I think when I speak to candidates and we're seeing more layoffs right now, I have major empathy for them because it's not just like, I've sold like you. I've stood at trade shows for 5 hours like you. I've been laid off like you. And that really helps me, in my opinion, become a better recruiter because I've actually lived it.”   Though difficult, getting laid off opened new opportunities that Greg capitalized on. In his words, “It was a blessing in disguise. It was probably the best thing that ever happened.”   Character Over Credentials: Building an All-Star Team to Scale   Another topic that will also resonate with a lot of business owners is strategies for hiring recruiters and team members to scale. Gregg focuses on hiring people based on character and shared values over resume credentials. He wants people he genuinely enjoys working with. He told the story of how hiring a trusted person without recruiting experience worked well for their business.    This strategy works well for Gregg and his team. He has grown his first recruiting company (with no outside funding) to 60 employees, reaching the Inc. 5000 for Fastest-Growing Companies 3 times! These are some of my takeaways from their strategy:   Vetting the work ethic, values, and coachability is crucial Greg wants employees he has a natural rapport  A team aligned in values helps ensure an ethical, collaborative culture   Why Hiring a COO is Critical   If you are a solo recruitment entrepreneur and planning to scale, hiring a COO is critical. This has been true for both Gregg and me, where hiring an effective COO became a game changer.    A lot of us may be able to relate to what Gregg said:   “I've been doing it by myself for twelve years and I've never really had help. And it's been exhausting. I mean, it's been an amazing ride, but it's been exhausting. And I like to have my recruiters focus on recruiting. I mean, that's what keeps the lights on and not worrying about doing side projects and onboarding employees and dealing with maybe a tough client, which I know is going to wear them down a little bit. So that's why I decided to hire somebody in operations, is that I have my recruiters recruiting. I'm doing everything else, and to do everything else, it's a lot. I just need a helping hand.”   Gregg is intentionally growing his firm slowly to have a lifestyle business. Hiring a COO helps him to focus on sales while delegating operations. Offloading operational tasks and delegating things that he does not enjoy doing creates more freedom and a better lifestyle. This resonates well with me. Some business owners may be apprehensive to take this approach because paying someone else can translate to lesser profit. But keep in mind that making less in the short term creates more freedom to earn much more in the long term.    Our Sponsor   This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained   Gregg Salkovitch Bio and Contact Info   After being a top sales performer for 3 consecutive companies, Gregg decided to co-found a company combining the 2 things he loved most in business, sales and helping people. Over 6 year period, Gregg grew this bootstrapped company with no outside funding to 60 employees, reaching the Inc. 5000 for fastest growing companies 3 consecutive times. He then started a separate recruiting company, Right Choice Resources, which specifically focuses on the placement of salespeople, executives, marketing, account management, and customer success.   Gregg on LinkedIn Right Choice Resources website link   People and Resources Mentioned   Allan Fisher on LinkedIn Greg Savage on LinkedIn Paul Warner on LinkedIn Rocket Fuel by Gino Wickman and Mark C. Winters   Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach   Related Podcast You Might Enjoy   TRR#166 How to Bill $1,000,000 For Ten Years Straight and Grow a Successful Team, with Allan Fisher TRR#189 Recruiting the Savage Way: Navigating AI, Metrics, and Mindset for Recruitment Success, with Greg Savage TRR#143 How a Competitive Bike Racer Turned Recruiter Built a 7-Figure Staffing Firm in 3 Years, with Paul Warner Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter   If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.  “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.

Transitioning from a comfortable corporate recruitment career to building an agency is not an obvious choice for many. The risks it entails may even stop some recruiters from considering this transition. Although it may be a significant leap, with the right skills, mindset, and support, it can lead to a rewarding and profitable career change.   My special guest, Pat Corrigan, shares his story of how he successfully transitioned and thrived as a recruitment agency owner from being a corporate recruiter for more than a decade. Pat shares the three key factors to his success, as well as the strategies he continues to implement in building his team and driving revenue.    Pat is the founder of Palladium Point, a leading executive search firm based in St. Louis, serving the commercial insurance industry nationally.   His recruitment career spans fifteen years, and for the past six years has been focused on building high-performing sales teams for leading commercial insurance brokers.    After spending years leading the sales recruitment function for a global insurance broker, Pat pursued his entrepreneurial dreams and started his own firm. Since launching in 2022 they’ve taken off like a rocket.   I’m also honored to have Pat as a member of our Inner Circle coaching program.    Episode Outline and Highlights   [03:03] Pat's Journey into Recruiting - From Corporate Recruitment to Agency Ownership. [12:40] The Bold Leap - Leaving the Comfort of Corporate Life to Establish His Firm - Discover the 3 Key Success Factors. [19:06] Accelerating Revenue Growth and Building a High-Performing Team. [24:17] How Bringing in Operations Personnel and Offshore Sourcers Became a Long-Term Solution for Pat's Business. [32:32] Pat Shares His Proven Client Development Approach. [39:07] Building Sustainable Growth - Implementing Systems and Processes. [49:30] Crafting an Inspiring Vision and Culture.   Successful Transition From Corporate Recruitment to Becoming an Agency Owner   For 15 years, Pat established himself as a recruitment leader for several corporate staffing firms. He had a colorful career but what resonated with me is his story of how being let go from a previous job was a pivotal moment that led him to where he is today. Pat emphasizes the importance of resilience and learning from every experience.    Pat also revealed what prompted him to leave his corporate gig to set up his firm. His strong work ethic and niche expertise are the foundations that enabled his transition. He shared three critical focus areas that have been key to his success:   Meticulous Planning - he took time to consult with others and assess potential risks before making his decision. Niche Focus - he leverage on his niche expertise that he had developed for half a decade. Cash Reserves - he understood that starting a business may not always easily take off successfully, so Pat ensured that he had enough cash reserves to hold him over for a while.   This indeed is an inspiring story for corporate or in-house recruiters aspiring to become recruitment business owners someday.    Strategies for Building a Team and Driving Revenue in a Short Span of Time   We then moved on to discuss strategies for building his team and driving revenue in a short span of time. Pat discussed how long he had to work on his own before he started hiring the next person. After around three or four months he started building his team and his first hire was an ops person. How did this decision to hire an operations person impact his business long term?   His logic behind it is, as Pat puts it, “If I want to attract, recruiters, or eventually salespeople into my organization, I want to give them the platform to get out there and kick tail. And I didn't want somebody to come in as the first recruiter and say, well, here's your ATS license and your LinkedIn recruiter and Zoom info …I like kind of linear stuff, and I wanted to not rush it. And as we're bringing on talent, I wanted, like, a real solid business platform that people could access”   This is remarkable insight. Pat hired an operations person to establish a solid foundation for future growth. This strategic move allowed him to attract recruiters and create a platform that would support their success. The hiring process was focused on setting up systems and structures rather than rushing into recruitment because Pat valued organization and long-term growth potential.   Pat then shared strategies in revenue which is focused on his approach to Business Development. Pat shared his perspective on sales which is focused on interaction and relationship building. He also described a Rainmaker Model way of working that enables him to get consistent revenue in running his business.   Creating Systems and Processes for Growth   Pat also emphasized the importance of putting up systems and processes for a smooth start for new hires. We discussed the platforms and tools they are using - such as Slack, to organize his team. He also shared his approach to having an offshore researcher and sources to help in lead generation.    Pat advocates growth not only for his organization but for his team members as well. He highlighted the value of intentionally designing your business’ vision and culture to attract top talents aligned with your core values. He believes that having the right tools and working environment in place will help your team grow exponentially.    Our Sponsor   This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained   Pat Corrigan Bio and Contact Info   As the Founder and President of Palladium Point, Pat brings a rich background in recruitment spanning nearly 15 years to the table. His journey began with recruiting top-tier talent for Lockton Companies, the world's largest independent insurance brokerage, where he played a pivotal role in driving industry-leading growth.   Fueled by a desire to revitalize the recruitment and talent acquisition landscape within the insurance sector, Pat embarked on the path to establish his own firm. Recognizing the need for a more dynamic and contemporary approach, he envisioned a search firm that would infuse fresh ideas and perspectives into the industry while maintaining a collaborative, human, and intentional ethos.   Today, Pat and his team at Palladium Point are trusted partners for insurance organizations navigating the intensely competitive landscape, while also serving as advisors to top talent seeking professional fulfillment.   Prior to his venture into the insurance realm, Pat excelled in technology consulting, where he consistently delivered results on challenging recruitment initiatives for global and mid-market organizations. He proudly holds a B.A. in Psychology and Business from the University of Missouri.   Pat on LinkedIn Palladium Point website link Palladium Point on LinkedIn   People and Resources Mentioned   Ravi Tangri on LinkedIn Gail Audibert on LinkedIn Jeremy Sisemore on LinkedIn Joe Rice on LinkedIn Rich Rosen on LinkedIn ClickUp (Project Management Tool) Slack Rad Reads, by Khe Hy Atomic Habits, by James Clear The E-Myth, by Michael Gerber 10x is Easier Than 2x Dan Sullivan   Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach   Related Podcast You Might Enjoy   TRR#155 How to Grow a Recruitment Agency from Start-Up to $3M Profit in Two Years, with Emily Rushton TRR#171 4 Essential Skills that All Recruitment Business Owners Need to Be Successful, with Chris Dinaso Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter   If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.  “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.  

Is implementing KPIs and measuring metrics the same as micromanagement?  Measuring activities is fundamental to evaluating how effective your strategies are in running your recruitment business. However, there are some recruiters and business owners who are apprehensive about implementing metrics measurements and KPIs. Is that the same for your recruitment business?  What are the metrics and KPIs that we should measure? How do we implement a KPI and data-driven environment without giving the vibe that team members are being micromanaged? How do you communicate the intent and purpose of your KPIs to your team members?  In this episode, Greg Savage explained why it is not about micromanaging and discusses metrics that empower talents. On top of this, you will also hear insightful takes on critical trends in AI and technology, and why your mindset is the key in your recruitment career success.   I am delighted to welcome the legendary Greg Savage to give us a reality check and revisit the pillars leading to recruitment success. Greg has four decades of experience owning, managing, and growing staffing businesses across the world. He’s the founder of four highly successful businesses; Recruitment Solutions (took to IPO). Firebrand Talent Search (trade sale), Eloquent Staffing (trade sale), and People2People.   Greg still takes an active interest in founding and growing recruitment businesses, investing in recruitment start-ups in Australia and the UK. He’s a LinkedIn Top Voices and has been inducted into the Recruiter International Hall of Fame. He’s founder of The Savage Recruitment Academy, and author of the best-selling book, The Savage Truth, and has recently published a new book called Recruit The Savage Way.   Episode Outline and Highlights [03:06] Greg and I delved into the essence of authentic leadership. [05:44] Exploring the four key factors for achieving success in the recruitment field. [11:01] Strategies for overcoming complacency and avoiding contentment with the status quo. [15:00] Greg shared his insights on the importance of continuous learning and how he benefits from nano degrees. [18:40] Greg’s valuable insights into the impact of AI on the recruitment industry. [29:41] Technological innovations that enhance the efficiency and effectiveness of recruitment. [32:08] Conversation about activities and key performance indicators (KPIs) and their role in achieving success in recruitment. [39:08] Exploring the best practices for effectively managing KPIs in recruitment. [47:52] Greg shared his perspectives on career development opportunities for recruiters. [57:00] Analysis of the economic landscape in the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic.   The Mindset, Attitude, and Resilience to Become a Successful Recruiter   I have always valued Greg as a mentor all these years. With over four decades of phenomenal success in the recruitment industry, he is an established authority when it comes to sharing wisdom with aspiring recruiters and business owners. He has recently published a book, Recruit the Savage Way, which offers “practical advice, skills, and attitudes and will give rookies an excellent grounding to thrive in their new career and help veterans brush up and add new competencies.”   We have talked about the first section which is on mindset and attitude. Greg said that one of the big reasons for the high turnover in the staffing and recruitment industry is because of the wrong attitude and mindset towards the industry. He mentioned the fallacy of believing that “recruitment is not rocket science,” because it is a complex, sophisticated job.    Greg believes that the mindset and attitude factors are something that can be corrected early on. Like skills and competencies, mindset and attitude can also be honed and trained. He emphasized four factors:   Believe in your value as a recruiter Believe in the value that you can deliver to your stakeholders Having that true resilience - which he refers to as the bounce-back ability Overcoming the threat of complacency   Greg also shared insightful principles on what true resilience looks like for recruiters. He elaborated on the value of emotions and moving on with positivity. You will also appreciate how he defines complacency in the recruitment field.    Activities and KPIs are Critical For Recruitment Success There is a section in Greg’s new book about the reality check on the importance of activities and KPIs to recruitment success. Greg elaborated on the two fundamental things to be successful in the business:   “The first thing is if you don't do enough stuff in this business, you will fail.”  “You cannot get better at something unless you measure it.”   Greg and I talked about the myth that measuring your metrics and KPIs is synonymous with micromanagement. As Greg said, “There is no sports person or academic or anyone who doesn't measure their outputs and then try to work on improving them. So I mean, the problem with... most KPIs is that they are foisted on people with no consideration to where those people are up to, not explained why they're important.”   Greg shared his advice to recruitment business owners on how to implement KPIs in a healthy working environment.   Insightful Take on Career Development for Recruiters   Greg also discussed a topic that deeply resonated with me: career development for recruiters and recruitment business owners. You will hear his thoughts on the threat of complacency. As he simply puts it, 10 years of experience is just 1 year of recruitment experience repeated 10 times if you are complacent. How do we overcome the trap of complacency and move forward with development?   Continuous Learning. Greg is an advocate of continuous learning. He shared how he benefits from taking “nano degrees” to stay up to date with recent trades, such as AI.   Owning Your Development. This is how Greg wittily describes it, “There is no one, nobody having sleepless nights about your career. Okay, maybe your mom, but nobody else is having sleepless nights about your career. Even a company that is going to help develop you, you've got to be dreaming if you think they're worried about where you're going to be in 15 years. And nor should they. You've got to worry about your career and you've got to take ownership of your career.”   Do Not Only Think of Your Career as a Hierarchical One. Greg shared successful recruiters who have had satisfying careers by focusing on and growing the career of becoming a recruiter by itself. My takeaway from this is that appreciating the sense of progress honing your craft and seeing your results increase is extremely satisfying.   Greg Savage Bio and Contact Info   With a career spanning four decades, Greg is a founder of 4 highly successful businesses, a trusted advisor and respected voice across the global recruitment and professional services industries, and a regular keynote speaker at conferences around the world.   Throughout his fascinating career, Greg has learned countless lessons in leadership, business, and life. One of his greatest achievements is his success as a communicator.  An early adopter of social media for recruiters, Greg’s industry blog, The Savage Truth, is a must-read in the recruitment industry. In November 2018, he was named one of LinkedIn’s ‘Top Voices’.   Greg’s website link Greg on LinkedIn Greg on Facebook Greg on Twitter @greg_savage Greg on Instagram: @gregsavagetruth Greg on Youtube   People and Resources Mentioned   Driving performance with recruitment metrics and KPIs Greg’s Masterclass: Recruit - The Savage Way: A recruitment masterclass series from Greg Savage Greg’s new book: Recruit the Savage Way Recruitment Coach Live Summit in Florida - recruitmentcoach.com/florida   Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach   Related Podcast You Might Enjoy   TRR#1 The Future of Recruitment: Strategies To Stay Relevant and Effective, with Greg Savage TRR#64 The Recruiter Roadmap to Recovery: How to Thrive in a Post-Pandemic World, with Greg Savage Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter   If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.  “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.  

Recruitment entrepreneurship can be immensely rewarding, but also brings the risk of burnout and overwhelm. New entrepreneurs can be vulnerable to workaholism, which can lead to negative consequences on physical and mental health, as well as personal relationships. We need to recognize the signs of workaholism and take steps to maintain a healthy work-life balance   My special guest, Tina Hazlett, founder of Spectrum Recruiting Solutions, shares her tips for success while maintaining a work-life balance. She gave at least four intentional steps that she took to overcome burnout, and I am sure you will find value in exploring the same steps.   Tina also shared the journey of how she transitioned from being a recruiter to a business owner, and how she navigated unpredictable market conditions. She also walked me through her advocacy of addressing the gender gap in her industry, and the steps they took to be successful in taking small steps forwards.   Tina has 22 years of experience in recruitment and started her own firm, Spectrum Recruiting Solutions, in 2018. They’ve since grown to a team of 14, based in the Salt Lake City area, Spectrum supports engineering and manufacturing companies in Utah through a combination of Direct-hire recruitment, RPO, and Consulting. Episode Outline and Highlights   [01:30] Tina Shares the Beginnings of Her Career in Recruitment. [03:57] Tina's One-Year Sabbatical Journey Before Launching Her Recruitment Firm. [10:33] Envisioning a Business Founded on Inclusivity and Remote Work Opportunities. [15:59] Addressing the Challenge of Hiring and Training Individuals Without Recruiting Experience [17:54] Tina's Four Steps to Overcoming Burnout as a New Entrepreneur. [24:34] The Evolution of Team Growth Throughout Tina's Entrepreneurial Journey. [28:30] Cultivating Camaraderie in a Remote Work Environment. [29:42] Discussing Gender Balance and Diversity in Utah's Engineering Industry. [37:00] Navigating Challenges in an Unconventional Market. [40:56] Insights into Tina's Business Development Strategies. [48:20] Establishing Career Paths and Succession Plans for the Team. [49:20] Tina's Approach to Transforming Solid Planning into Effective Execution. [51:48] Recognizing the Right Time to Expand and Grow Your Team.   Overcoming Burnout as a New Entrepreneur   New entrepreneurs can be vulnerable to workaholism for various reasons: passion and drive, new responsibilities, and adjusting to the learning curve of managing a new business. This was exactly how Tina felt when she founded Spectrum.    “If I'm being very honest about a couple years into starting spectrum, I hit a wall and I hit it hard and was so super burned out. And there was about at least a three-week period that I struggled to get out of bed. I was so tired.”   If you are feeling the same way, do not just ignore it. Workaholism leading to burnout can have many negative consequences. Tina was well aware of this fact, so she took action in order to build herself back up. We discussed the four steps she took to overcome overwhelm:   Realigning her priorities and making the most of her support system. She took concrete steps like scheduling dedicated family time on her calendar Creating a space for herself to take care of her mental health by doing yoga. Walking away from adversarial clients.   Gender Balance and Diversity Within the Engineering & Manufacturing Field in Utah   Tina talked me through her advocacy when she was planning to launch her recruitment firm. She said, “We really struggle in terms of our reputation and women's rights. That's one thing that I really wanted to promote. Where we focus on engineering and manufacturing in Utah, there's not a ton of representation for females out here, especially when it comes to equality, politically and professionally. Our goal was to really make sure women have a seat at the table.”   Her team took intentional steps to reach their objectives. They created channel partnerships and pipelines of candidates. They go beyond social media platforms through face-to-face networking.  She elaborated on how they would align with a group with similar mission and values for mutual support. This resulted in having females in 41% of their placement, which is an astonishing feat in their industry.   Business Development Strategies   We also discussed Tina’s most influential business development strategy. How are they able to develop their client base? She explains, “Through a lot of our networking events is our number one way to do it where we can get in front of people. For example, we just did a hosted roundtable with the Utah Outdoor Association which does a lot of product development for outdoors like kayaks, canoes, tables, and that type of thing. So if we can get in and present, be the experts, be that resource, then we have people coming to us with questions that evolve into those strategic conversations. And what's been the most successful for us is getting that FaceTime. We're not cold callers.”   This strategy of hosting and speaking at events builds the credibility of Tina and her team. This gives them the opportunity to have a consultative approach instead of just selling.    Our Sponsors   This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained   Tina Hazlett Bio and Contact Info   Tina started Spectrum Recruiting Solutions in 2018 after serving 17 years in the Talent Acquisition industry.  A professional sabbatical and personal desire to travel helped to provide the mental space she needed to create her vision of the ideal Talent Acquisition Firm. She and her entire family spent a full year traveling across the United States in a Winnebago, on purpose.  She fulfilled her soul as well as her contractual non-compete agreement.    With sheer determination and a dream, she built a successful recruiting, consulting & outplacement company that is thriving today. Amongst historic levels of economic uncertainty and geopolitical turmoil, she began a recruiting revolution!     When she’s not putting her blood, sweat, and tears into Spectrum, she is active in the community fighting for gender pay equality and managing her family's annual "Backpack Project" which provides basic necessities to underprivileged kids within our community. Somehow Tina still finds time to continue exploring her soul and her world, traveling, hiking, biking, teaching yoga, and living life to the absolute fullest with her AMAZING family.   Tina on LinkedIn Spectrum Recruiting Solutions website link Spectrum on Facebook Spectrum on Instagram Spectrum on YouTube Spectrum on Twitter   People and Resources Mentioned   Foram Brown on LinkedIn Emily Rushton on LinkedIn   Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach   Related Podcast You Might Enjoy   TRR#155 How to Grow a Recruitment Agency from Start-Up to $3M Profit in Two Years, with Emily Rushton Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter   If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.  “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.  

Starting a cybersecurity recruitment business during a tech market downturn can be exceptionally challenging for several reasons: reduced demand, intense competition, financial constraints, and talent availability. Despite these challenges, it's not impossible to succeed in launching a cybersecurity recruitment business during a downturn, as proven by my special guest, Stuart Mitchell. Stu founded Hampton North in 2022 with the goal of building the most trusted cybersecurity search firm in the united states. Despite the downturn in the tech market, they’re on pace to bill $1.5-2M in their first year. In this episode, Stu shared his insights into key topics that help him succeed: finding the right people to surround you, attracting and retaining the best people, and how to build a personal brand, and becoming a recognized industry leader. With over a decade of experience, Stu has been a successful billing manager, having personally billed over a million dollars while building a multi-million dollar team who achieved an EBITA of $1m. He’s placed some of the most well-known cyber security executives into Financial Services Companies, Retail Brands, and Tech Giants alike. He has built cyber security programs from 0-20+ on multiple occasions, including one of these scale-ups in less than 8 weeks.   Episode Outline and Highlights [03:30] How Stu got into recruiting leading to him starting his recruitment firm. [11:30] From good to great - finding the right people to surround you. [16:18] How Stu began to build his brand by sharing a case study on LinkedIn. [20:48] Stu shared how he launched Hampton North and what makes them thrive despite the downturn in the tech industry.  [29:52] Attracting, hiring, and retaining the best people as a startup.  [39:21] Breakdown of how Stu became a recognized industry leader.  [50:00] The importance of consistency in creating value-adding content - hear Stuart’s content strategies. [1:03:30] Stu shares what is next for Hampton North.   Overcoming a Tech Market Downturn - Launching Hampton North and Billing 7 Digits on Their First Year   A remarkable achievement that I wanted to discuss with Stu is how he launched his cybersecurity recruitment business, Hampton North in 2022. What makes it amazing is that despite the downturn in the tech market, they are on pace to bill $2M in their first year!  I am excited to share in this episode Stu’s insights on the things that contributed to this success. We zoomed in on three key factors:   The importance of hard work. Developing key account relationships. The quality of people that you hire.   The third topic resonated well with me as I feel the impact of having the right team members to support my business. For many recruitment business owners, especially those who are just starting, hiring someone can be like a roll of the dice. Stu shared how he was able to get the top talents and retain them. It can probably be summarized with a question that serves as his guiding principle when hiring: “Who are the best people that I know, and why aren't they already working here?”   Becoming a Recognized Industry Leader and Consistent in Sharing Relevant Content   Stu also did a phenomenal job in establishing a reputation in the cybersecurity space as a recognized thought and industry leader. With more than 40,000 LinkedIn followers, he is consistent in posting industry-relevant content. I also enjoy the posts that he shares, so I wanted to get his thought process on how he is consistently coming up with ideas.   We discussed the following subjects:   The impact of sharing case studies. Creating a brand of familiarity less the intention of wanting to be liked. Avoiding “forced content” by sharing free-flowing ideas. Strategies in creating 2-3 posts a day consistently.   Stu described his thought process this way, “I think I kind of see this as t kind of the writer's strike in Hollywood, right? The more you force it and try and make things rigid and structured like it's really hard to force great ideas. Great ideas are free-flowing.”   Surrounding Yourself with the Right People   Before becoming a recruitment business owner, Stu has always been a consistently successful billing manager.  He billed over a million dollars while building a multi-million dollar team that achieved an EBITA of $1m.    He revealed what can turn a good recruiter into a great recruiter: “I think it goes back, there's a saying of yours, your collective sum of the five closest people around you.”    Stu mentioned great recruiters where he learned to shift his perspectives in terms of what is possible. Surrounding yourself with the right people can shift your whole belief system to drive you to reach your potential.    Our Sponsors   This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained   Stuart Mitchell Bio and Contact Info   Stuart is a seasoned professional with over a decade of global expertise in technical recruiting.   Stuart's influence extends deep into the heart of America's cybersecurity landscape, where he has been instrumental in securing top-tier executives for prominent Financial Services Companies, Retail Brands, and Technology Giants. His achievements also include the remarkable feat of independently establishing cybersecurity programs from the ground up, often growing them from zero to over 20 employees in astonishingly short periods, with one such endeavor completed within just eight weeks.   With a track record of building and expanding technical recruitment enterprises, Stuart embarked on the journey to establish Hampton North. His mission is to forge Hampton North into the foremost trusted name in cybersecurity recruitment throughout the United States.   Stuart on LinkedIn Hampton North website link   People and Resources Mentioned   Steven Li on LinkedIn Lee Hills on LinkedIn   Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach   Related Podcast You Might Enjoy   TRR# 175 How to Build Trust and Relationships at Scale by Hosting Meet-up Events, with Steven Li Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter   If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.  “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.

Recruiting is not only sales and data-driven. It encompasses a broader range of skills, qualities, and considerations which is mainly focused on building relationships and human connection. Effective recruiting involves understanding people's motivations, aspirations, and personalities.    That is why it is important for recruiters and business owners to understand the value of Emotional Intelligence. Emotional intelligence empowers recruiters to navigate the intricacies of human interaction, fostering trust, rapport, and success within the recruitment industry.   In this episode, my special guest, James Elliot, shares the 5 pillars of emotional intelligence which are critical components in becoming effective recruiters. James is very different from my usual guests in that he does not come from a recruiting background.   James joined the British Army in 2006, deploying around the world including to Afghanistan.   After his own issues with mental health, James became a strength and conditioning coach at a national league rugby team, where he learned the power of mentoring. He was then asked to help establish the first-ever British Army Parachute Jumping Instructors Platoon.   At RAF Brize Norton, James also attended several courses in mental health, becoming an instructor, and also broke 2 Guinness world records in feats of endurance in rugby.    In 2018, James became a Mental Resilience Coach for the British Army, where he helped develop and deliver mental resilience training, including to special forces. In 2020, James left the army to take his mental resilience training to a wider audience including high-performing individuals and teams, such as the Paralympic Rowing team.  Episode Outline and Highlights   [1:39] Why understanding human behavior is practical in the recruiting industry. [04:36] James’ journey as a mental resilience coach and what made him pursue mental health qualifications. [15:04] James shares the resilience principles that he was teaching in the British Army. [17:40] Our discussion on the key concepts of resilience. [31:14] Practical applications of resilience in the field of recruiting. [39:09] Why emotional influence and biases play a huge role in your decision-making. [42:29] What should you do when a candidate ghosts you? [46:49] Zooming in to Emotional Intelligence - what is it and how do you develop it? [54:10] The 5 Pillars of Emotional Intelligence.  [55:51] James shares his motto "Leave every room better than you found it" - use your positive influence.   Understanding Resilience and Human Behaviour to Become an Effective Recruiter   James explains his approach to mental resilience which focused on adapting to adversity. We discussed key topics o human behavior that can contribute to your success as a recruiter or recruitment business owner. The takeaways that well resonated with me are the following:   Embracing Human Behaviour Insight: He zoomed in on the value of understanding human behavior, which he believes is a massive part of being an effective recruiter. When dealing with your team, a candidate, or a client, this life skill is critical to becoming effective.   Leveraging Human Connection James also elaborated on the importance of engaging with someone on a very human level to bring out the very best of their performance. This is useful when coaching your team. James relayed very specific examples of how this has worked for him and his coachees and how this can work for you.   Thriving Through Resilience The principle of resilience is about turning surviving into thriving. For you to become resilient, it is not always about being the strongest or the sharpest. It is about learning to adapt. For James, it is about changing quicker and adapting faster than everybody.   Unveiling Emotional Intelligence James reveals his thought process about emotional intelligence, self-awareness, and understanding your emotions. These topics are relevant to the recruitment field, which is a people business.   How Emotional Intelligence Influences Your Decision Making   When we say resilience, we do not only refer to overcoming drastic events and momentous situations. For example, recruitment on its own is challenging as is due to its demanding and stressful nature, punctuated by daily rejection. You are dealing with human beings, who don't always do what they say or communicate transparently. A strong will and resilient mindset are critical components to be successful in recruitment.   I had to ask James’ viewpoint on how to develop mental resilience. James argues that resilience isn't about suppressing emotions but understanding them through emotional intelligence. We talked about practical steps that can help you develop emotional intelligence. A good example is when dealing with people, may it be a candidate or your own team member. Emotional maturity includes overcoming conscious and unconscious biases to deal with your stakeholders effectively. James says our biases often make us see people as we want, not objectively. Look at their actions by making an objective timeline of people's actual behaviors to see their true patterns.    We also discussed modern-day communication and how to deal with ghosting, which is becoming a more common trend nowadays. James gave his perspective on what prompts other people to ghost others and how this can be dealt with in the field of recruiting.   The 5 Pillars of Emotional Intelligence James breaks emotional intelligence into 5 pillars:  Self-awareness, emotional control, empathy, social awareness, and motivation.   He elaborated on each of these pillars and shared insights on how their application. He talked about the biggest obstacles to motivation and self-improvement. James also shared his motto: "Leave every room slightly better than you found it".   Our Sponsors   This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained   James Elliot Bio and Contact Info A psychotherapist and resilience coach, who takes a close look at the scientific methods of the development of resilience, from observable neurobiological reactions to psychotherapeutic processes and proven psychological techniques to develop an individual's emotional resilience.   Having served 14 years in the British Army's Airborne Forces, including as the second in command of the British Army's Mental Resilience Training Team, as part of the British Army's first Army Parachute Jumping Instructors platoon, operational deployment to Afghanistan, and two seasons as a strength and conditioning coach to a National League rugby team.    Now working as a psychotherapist who works with a broad spectrum of high-achieving individuals including trail-blazing athletes, special forces operators, blue light services, CEOs, politicians, and vulnerable veterans to help the individual find their subjective fulfillment and state of emotional resilience.   Fighting through childhood abuse, instability, poor mental health, and poverty, James Elliott uses his lived experiences to help relate the complicated psychological principles to his audience.   Currently living in Essex, where he is still an avid supporter of his local rugby team, dedicated to a healthy lifestyle and developing his health and strength, James continues his studies currently at King's College London and is a father to a charismatic daughter.   James on LinkedIn Tough Enough to Care website link (A Non-Profit that James support) Think Yourself Resilient: Harness Your Emotions. Build Your Confidence. Transform Your Life.  People and Resources Mentioned The Chimp Paradox by Steve Peters David and Goliath, by Malcolm Gladwell    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter  

Fostering a workplace where everyone wants to work can translate to positive employer branding. This is a critical factor if you wish to build your recruitment business to scale.   Joe Curtis, my special guest, will tell us how they can launch and scale recruitment companies while building those as businesses that people want to work for. The first recruitment business Joe and his cofounders built, 3Search, launched in 2014, and currently employs 40 people. With the successful scaling of 3Search, Joe turned his attention to building the 11 Investments Group, now at 100 heads, with 6 recruitment companies within the group.   In this episode, Joe shared his insights on they are able to have 900+ 5-star Google Reviews across their group, which is phenomenal for a recruitment company. We also discussed the value of diversity and inclusivity, as well as his take on the work-from-home and hybrid setup which is a recently hot topic.   Episode Outline and Highlights [02:27] Joe’s recruiter and investor journey: How he left Michael Page and started his boutique firm. [06:41] Strategies for investing in startups instead of growing capital for the original business.  [13:27] Turning mistakes into learning opportunities - Joe revealed their biggest learnings and how they use them to help new startups invest in their holding. [22:35] Having a shared vision and working well with co-founders. [31:00] What it takes to be recognized as a Great Place to Work. [38:49] Zooming in on inclusivity and behavior-based hiring. [47:45] Discussion on the hybrid and work-from-home setting.   Critical Components When Launching and Scaling Recruitment Businesses   Joe co-founded his first recruitment business, 3Search, in 2014 which currently employs 40 people. With the successful scaling of 3Search, Joe turned his attention to building the 11 Investments Group, now at 100 heads. I wanted to pick his brains on the core components needed to build and scale a recruitment business.    From a strategic point of view, Joe tells the story of why they invested in startups.  “Because we didn't want a multi-discipline business. We wanted a group of specialists,” he continued, “we champion small business, we champion entrepreneurship. and growth of small companies. And we have a platform that enables significant ownership to the guys that come in and found the businesses with us. We know how to scale and grow a recruitment business today in 2023, and we bring in founders who know their market well.”   What does the roadmap look like when it comes to scaling a recruitment business? Joe explained how they use an investment model to adapt to the market. He also mentioned how important it is to be hands-on. You will also hear strategies for handling operational tasks such as accounting and marketing on a centralized approach. Most importantly, Joe also shared the mistakes and learnings that they had to take for the past 9 years and how they are leveraging them to help out recruitment businesses investing in their group.   Running a Recruitment Business with Multiple Co-Owners   Running a recruitment business with multiple co-owners can be challenging for several reasons such as decision-making, division of responsibilities, and communication. But what I think is most common is the lack of a shared vision. Leaders can have different ideas of what they're trying to accomplish. What advice would Joe give to recruitment business owners who are working with multiple or other partners? He discussed the following two key principles:   Having an articulated vision in the short, medium, and long term. Constantly talk about what you are doing and building.   As Joe describes it, “And these days, you know, we don't spend an awful lot of time together as a three talking about stuff, making decisions. So if you're not careful, you can start planning the future. on your own and then one of the others is planning a slightly different future. And as you kind of, as time goes on, those plans get further and further and further apart. So it's important to keep talking about what we're building.”   Creating a Business That People Want to Work For   Recently featured in The Sunday Times, Best Places to Work 2023, 11investment’s efforts have been recognized among the top-rated employers. This is an amazing feat, especially in the recruitment industry. Joe and his partners recognized that “hiring people is going to be hard in the recruitment industry and keeping people was going to be hard in their doing what we're doing.” They took proactive steps to ensure that they retain their valuable talents.   Joe revealed the things that they are doing differently to foster an environment where people want to work. “This employer brand we're building is all based around us really striving to provide the best benefits package we possibly can as a holistic package for people. It's really important that we consider everybody's needs collectively rather than just paying as much commission as we possibly can or having an amazing holiday benefit or, yeah, we're trying to put everything together. So we do have an amazing commission structure, I believe. We do have a good holiday. We've got unlimited holidays… The goal is to provide the best environment we possibly can that enables everybody to flourish both professionally and personally.”   We also discussed topics relating to hybrid and work-from-home setups, as well as what it takes to become a B-Corp-certified company.    Our Sponsors   This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained   Joe Curtis Bio and Contact Info   Joe is a recruiter, founder of multiple businesses, and now a recruitment investor who is helping to build and scale recruitment businesses.   Joe is the Director & Co-Founder at 11 Investments Director & Co-Founder at Recruiter Labs Director at 3Search   11 Investments was named The Sunday Times' Top Place To Work for 16-34 year-olds in 2023.   Joe on LinkedIn 11 Investments website link 3Search website link Recruiter Labs website link   People and Resources Mentioned   Adrian Romani on LinkedIn Anne Swain on LinkedIn APSCo website link Hibob HR Tool link Malcolm Gladwell’s podcast episode discussion on working from home   Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter