The Resilient Recruiter

In this interview, you’ll learn how Logan Naidu built one of the fastest-growing recruitment companies in the UK based on a core set of corporate values: Excellence, Partnership, Knowledge, Diversity and Kindness. You’ll also hear Logan’s amazing story of resilience and how being diagnosed with cancer at age 31 was the catalyst for a significant change in the trajectory of his recruiting career.  Plus he shares his insights on learning and development, assessing culture fit, and successful business models. Named by The Sunday Times as one of Britain’s 500 most influential people, Logan is the founder and CEO of Dartmouth Partners. Over the last 8 years, they've grown from a start-up to one of the UK's fastest-growing recruitment companies, have received private equity backing, and made their first acquisition, Pure search.  Today the group operates as a multi-brand, multi-niche player, 180 employees across 5 Geographies and are listed as FT1000 fastest growing companies in Europe and are set for tremendous continued growth over the coming year. Episode Outline and Highlights [2:05] Logan’s amazing story of resilience and source of motivation. [13:22] The ‘Classroom to Boardroom’ model. [17:32] Logan’s approach to assessing culture fit. [22:30] Success as a Billing Manager - how Logan was able to balance making placements, training a team, and running a business. [27:34] Should the top biller always be promoted to a leadership role? Hear Logan’s deciding factors. [30:52] Kindness as a corporate value? Hear the two aspects of how kindness can be applied in the context of a recruitment business. [35:37] Unlocking real sustainable growth with learning and development - Dartmouth’s world-class aspirations. [46:21] Scaling your business - Logan shared his experience on the constraints and how he overcame them. Million Pound per Year Biller  I asked Logan why he left the first business that he co-founded.  He explained that despite being a million-pound biller for two consecutive years, certain life-changing events made him redefine his purpose and ultimately led to some business decisions.  I can’t help but be astounded and inspired by Logan as he shared his journey. At the age of 31, he experienced three life-changing events - getting married, being diagnosed with cancer a day before their first anniversary, and having a child six months after being diagnosed.  These combined experiences made him realize that although he’d been successful as a big biller in a small boutique, “Life is super short … I don’t want this to be the rest of my working career.” From a personal development perspective, he was more motivated by “business” than by “billing” and wanted to grow a large business. This ambition wasn’t shared by his partners at the time who were happy running a boutique, so he exited his first company to launch Dartmouth Partners. Kindness as a Corporate Value Dartmouth Partners corporate values are Excellence, Partnership, Knowledge, Diversity and Kindness. The one that jumped out to me from this list is ‘kindness.’ I can’t remember seeing this word in a recruitment company’s values statement before. Yet it’s one that resonates with me personally. So what does kindness mean in the context of a recruitment business? Logan explained how kindness could be applied in the way we treat others both external and internal. From an external point of view, Logan elaborated, “Listening to them [candidates] and taking them seriously is really important. I think we forget that in the industry because we think about deals and transactions but this is, fundamentally, a very human job and that’s a real privilege. Actually, you get to know your candidates really well, a lot of them become friends over time and they really trust you.” On an internal relevance, kindness is definitely needed when dealing with your team. “The bit internally, I think talking to people and ultimately treating them in a grown-up manner. Recruitment companies tend to go down the route of micro-management and KPIs. But actually, if we hire bright, good, hard-working people and train them in the right way, you can give them an awful lot of freedom. You don’t need to micro-manage them.” Logan Naidu Bio and Contact Info Logan is the founder and CEO of Dartmouth Partners. He has a notable track record in recruiting across financial services but with a particular focus on M&A and Private Equity. While running the firm from a strategic perspective, Logan uses his recruitment expertise to guide consultants in the execution of roles. He continues to work on the delivery of more senior advisory and investment mandates. Logan studied to Masters level at the University of Birmingham before entering the City in 2000. He began his career at JPMorgan and PriceWaterhouseCoopers in Corporate Finance. Logan co-founded the Cornell Partnership in 2005 before leading a successful exit of the financial services and graduate business to form what is now Dartmouth. Logan has a desire for individuals and businesses to work together to mutually flourish and to enjoy shared success and this is reflected internally at Dartmouth. Dartmouth’s success is partly due to Logan’s drive to succeed. It has also been recognised in numerous industry accolades: Debrett’s People of Today (2017) The Sunday Times as one of Britain’s 500 most influential people (2016) Shortlisted as Recruitment Entrepreneur of the Year and GB Entrepreneur of the Year in the services industry (2015) Growing Business “Young Gun” Awards (2013) Outside of Dartmouth, Logan is a trustee of Thrive Youth Trust, the partner charity to Thrive In Work, a social enterprise enabling young people to gain employment. A committed Christian, he is the father of three noisy children, husband to one ever-supportive wife and a serious tennis and fitness nut. Logan on LinkedIn Dartmouth Partners website link Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Want to become the ‘go-to’ recruiter in your niche, generate inbound leads, create a high-performance culture, or scale your recruitment agency internationally? Then you’re going to love my interview with Toby Babb. Toby is the founder and CEO of the Harrington Starr Group, an award-winning fintech recruiter with offices in London and New York. Toby had been in the recruitment industry for 21 years and has won Agency Leader of the Year and the Entrepreneur of the Year by Recruiter Magazine.  Toby’s also paving the way for other recruiters with his commitment to digital marketing.  He’s the host of the Fintech Focus podcast, Fintech Focus TV, editor of the Financial Technologist Magazine and Chairman of the Fintech Influencers networking community.  In this interview, Toby reveals the success factors to building one of the UK’s top 100 recruitment companies. He also shares his passion for positioning recruitment as a professional service and the importance of improving the customer experience, standards and overall view of the recruitment sector.  Episode Outline and Highlights [2:30] Toby shares his motivations for hosting a podcast. [7:02] Doing the right thing for your clients by becoming a consultant in the truest sense. [13:04] Increasing the quality of your inbound leads. [18:37] The 3 success factors for building one of the UK’s top 100 recruitment companies. [24:30] Using technology to help your people be ‘faster, better, stronger’ without sacrificing the art of recruitment. [30:45] Staying true to your niche vs the temptation to pursue other opportunities. [35:47] Having offices in the UK and New York, Toby shares differences in the style of recruiting between the two markets?  [42:36] Which works better, 360 or 180? Toby compares both business models, from the perspective of having a hybrid of both. [49:08] Harrington Star’s way of doing things - five keys. [56:51] Toby reveals his biggest mistake in the business and what we can learn from it. Becoming a Consultant in its Truest Sense Toby truly believes in the importance of becoming a “consultant” in its truest sense. He explained, “People are the fuel of everyone’s success. If you are able to be a trusted advisor… if you are a genuine consultant in what you are doing, you are able to garner that trust that excludes competition and it makes your business more efficient.”  Some of the key takeaways from our conversation on this topic include:  How to position yourself as an advisor How to establish your credibility How to increase the quantity and quality of inbound leads Building One of the Most Successful Recruitment Companies in the UK Harrington Starr was listed by Recruiter Magazine as one of the Hot 100 recruitment companies in the UK. That’s out of 30-40,000 recruiting and staffing companies! I asked Toby to explain his top three success factors. Here is what he shared: You can’t do good numbers without good people. You must have something slightly different in the marketplace. Staying true to your niche. You can imagine the challenge given the really saturated situation in the UK.  How did Toby’s organisation come up with a unique value compared to others? He shared some great insights and also talked about the temptation to be opportunistic vs strategic and staying true to his niche.  Toby Babb Bio and Contact Info Toby has worked with the world's leaders in financial services and commodities technology for seventeen years. Having led high performing teams for two listed, global recruitment brands, he saw the opportunity to build a pioneering, values-based company that would work with customers to provide solutions and real value well beyond the traditional models on offer in the sector. He is a keen student of the world's leading teams and brands and passionate about elite performance organisations. Toby is a regular commentator on business, technology, employment and recruitment for the BBC and a blogger on FinTech and Commodities Trading systems. Toby on LinkedIn Toby on Instagram Fintech Focus Podcast link Harrington Starr website link Harrington Starr on Twitter @HarringtonStarr Harrington Starr on Youtube People and Resources Mentioned Leanne Sara Jones Hunt on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#66  How to Grow Your Recruitment Business by Hiring Top Recruiters, with Leanne Sara Jones Hunt   Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

What does the future of recruitment look like?   We’ve all been forced to adapt to new ways of working in recent times.  We’ve experienced a decade’s worth of change compressed into a matter of months.  However, much of that change has been reactive.  According to Bruce Morton, author of “Redesigning the Way Work Works,” there has never been a better opportunity to strategically redesign our way of working.   Bruce is the Global Head of Strategy for Allegis, one of the top 5 largest staffing companies in the world. Bruce has worked at Allegis for 11 years and has over 40 years of experience in the human capital industry. He is well known as a global workforce design and talent acquisition expert. He has designed, implemented and managed some of the largest resourcing solutions across many different parts of the globe.  In this fascinating interview, Bruce explains the emerging role of “work-design architect,” the trend towards “projectizing” tasks, and the concept of “talent anywhere.” He also discussed the enduring impact of Covid on the future of businesses, from car manufacturing to office spaces.  Episode Outline and Highlights [3:46] Bruce’s role as Global Head of Strategy at Allegis Global Solutions [7:42] Discussing Bruce’s 2019 book, “Redesigning the Way Work Works” -- which of his predictions came true and how would he revise the book in light of Covid?  [12:14] What is the “work-design architect” and how is it opening a world of possibilities? [17:59] If, when and how people should return to the office. [22:08] Beyond employer branding: how companies can attract top talent and increase employee engagement by “projectizing” their tasks and introducing “stretch assignments.” [28:20] The trend towards “talent anywhere” and remote working. [32:02] The benefits of “one-click apply” [41:38] Covid realizations and enduring impact on the future of business - from car sales to office space. [43:24] Measuring outcome instead of input. [46:00] Why the opportunity divide is getting bigger and what role we can play as recruiters. “Redesigning the Way Work Works” When Bruce turned 60, coinciding with his 40th anniversary in recruitment, he wrote the book Redesigning the Way Work Works. He considered it as a gift to himself as well as his gift to the industry. The book was published pre-covid in 2019.  I asked Bruce which parts of the book would he revise post-pandemic and which of his key themes or predictions came true? He replied: “If I have time to rewrite it or update it, I would love to be able to do that and just put a big stamp on the front ‘Post Covid’. Because some of the projections that I made in the book that I was saying five to 10 years, actually happened within the first two months of Covid.” Bruce then proceeded to share his thoughts about innovation, how the way of working has significantly changed, and how organizations should think. One of my key takeaways was to “stop being limited by the four walls around you.” That will make more sense once you listen to the interview. Company Branding and How to Attract Top Performers  How do you establish a culture that attracts top talent? The culture used to be based around the office environment.  So how do you establish a brand of being a “great place to work” when most people are working remotely?  We started out discussing ideas you’re already familiar with, like the need to provide great benefits, embrace diversity and inclusion, and social corporate responsibility.  Then Bruce shared a few paradigm-shifting concepts that I’d never heard before.  He explained, “When you are trying to attract people it used to be all about the company name.” Bruce explained how we’re seeing a shift from being primarily loyal to the company to being loyal to the craft. Given that people are now more loyal to the profession or their expertise, Bruce pointed out that in order to attract strong performers and top talents, companies should focus on two things: “Projectizing” tasks and Giving stretch assignments The Opportunity Divide and What We Can Do A topic that Bruce is passionate about is the “opportunity divide.” He explains, “I think that it is horrendously staggering that the better we get at utilizing technology, the smarter we get as a human race, the opportunity divide is getting bigger and bigger… A CEO now on average earns 320 times more than an employee. Ten years ago the difference was only ten times.”  So how do we as an industry make a positive impact on people’s lives and reduce the opportunity divide? Bruce said, “How do we educate all of our clients to think about opportunity divide and truly give people opportunity? Bruce talked about recruiting based on somebody’s potential versus recruiting based on somebody’s past experience.  Bruce Morton Bio and Contact Info Bruce is in his 40th year in the human capital industry and has been recognized as HR Thought Leader of the Year by HRO both in EMEA and in the US. He is the author of the book ‘Redesigning the Way Work Works.’ As the Head of Strategy for Allegis Global Solutions, Bruce concentrates on adding increased value to clients from new services and product idea generation, digital transformation, internal and external thought leadership through conferences and speaking engagements.  Bruce on LinkedIn Bruce on Twitter @brucetalent Allegis Global Solutions website link People and Resources Mentioned Doug Bugie  Redesigning The Way Work Works: Strong Opinions and Advice from 40 Years in the Business a book by Bruce Morton Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR # 69 Recruitment Legends: Leadership and Life Lessons From 40 Years in the Global Recruiting Industry, with Doug Bugie Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

When 9/11 happened, Jared Coseglia had to give up his career as a theatre director and landed an admin job in a recruitment company. Twenty years later, he’s the CEO of an award-winning staffing business that not only survived but actually thrived during the pandemic.  In this interview, Jared shares his experience of building a highly successful recruiting and staffing company. One of the keys to growing your recruitment business is identifying, recruiting, mentoring and retaining the best people.  Jared gave specific suggestions on how to recruit recruiters and then create an environment where they can achieve their potential.  He also revealed his secrets to building a brand through thought-leadership and PR.  Jared is the founder and CEO of TRU Staffing Partners, an award-winning staffing company representing talent and opportunities in the data privacy, e-discovery, and cybersecurity verticals since 2010. Jared has successfully placed over 3000 professionals in full-time and temporary positions at the Fortune 1000, Am Law 200, and throughout the global consultancy, service and software provider community. His ability to identify, deliver, mentor, and help retain talent has given him the privilege of quickly becoming the globally recognized “go-to” individual for hiring managers and job seekers in need of staffing solutions or career guidance and management in legal technology and data protection. Episode Outline and Highlights [3:16] From being a theatre director to becoming a recruiter. [7:54] Two valuable tips on candidate preparation - Jared shared how he preps his candidates from a director’s perspective. [12:13] Growing a business from scratch and becoming a market leader [17:56] The benefits of the contract staffing business model. [22:00] Temporary staffing and retained executive search - how to do both! [29:20] Leadership advice: painting a picture and being a visionary. [31:10] Hear two pointers in successfully recruiting recruiters.  [38:00] How sincerity and caring for people have contributed to TRU Staffing Partners’ success. [41:03] Mentoring your staff - making yourself available to your employees [46:30] How to respond when people in your organization make mistakes. [50:11] The importance of hiring agents and experts. Transferring Skills as a Theatre Director to Talent Representation and Interview Preparation Jared started his career in the theatre industry - which sadly became difficult when 9/11 happened. He then shifted to the recruitment and staffing business, which he started as a temp doing admin tasks. He eventually learned to source and successfully applied the skills he developed in the theatre. As Jared said, “I likened it to casting. Because when you’re a director you’re always casting shows. I do think there are quite a lot of similarities to being a theatre director where at the end of the day your mission is to harmonize the human capital of all the different disciplines that go into making the work of art.”  Aside from the comparison of sourcing to casting, he also believes that clarity and articulation of thoughts, as well as appreciation and access of the human condition from the inside, contributed greatly to his success, which he gives credit to his theatre background. Prepping Your Candidates How do you prep your candidates to set them up for success? Jared shared a lot of commonalities with his previous career in the theatre. Some key pointers are: Know the audience Help the candidate shape his performance for that audience It is not just a knowledge transfer, but also creating a safe space for people to make mistakes.  Jared explained, “Think of it this way, when you’re an actor, you have ideas. But mainly you don’t share those ideas or you don’t try those ideas out on stage without permission. So a good rehearsal process, when you’re a theatre director, is giving actors permission and creating a safe space for people to make mistakes, say the wrong things, try things that don’t work so that you could guide them to the ones that do.” How to Successfully Recruit Recruiters When Jared was scaling his business, he recognized the challenge in hiring skilled recruiters. He actually hired around one-third of his people through an agency. He also revealed some of his secrets to acquiring great talents. In his words, “You have to find great people to invest in at a young point in their career, not age, but a young point in their career in this space.” He backed up his advice by sharing amazing real-life examples of people he’s hired. Jared argued that recruiting for your team is somewhat similar to doing improv. “You know there is a saying in theatre, that when you’re doing improvisation, you have to say yes.” He then elaborated on how saying “yes” applies to recruiting good recruiters. Jared Coseglia  Bio and Contact Info Jared Michael Coseglia is the founder and CEO of TRU Staffing Partners, an award-winning staffing company representing talent and opportunities in the data privacy, e-discovery, and cybersecurity verticals since 2010.  Jared’s unique style of representation, a vast network of relationships, and subject matter expertise have helped earn him and TRU a host of awards including the Inc. 5000 Fastest-Growing Private Companies in America rankings two years in a row, #1043 in 2016 and #1189 in 2017. TRU has been voted a top three legal and/or litigation support staffing agency for seven consecutive years in both the National Law Journal and the New York Law Journal, winning first place for National Law Journal’s 2018 Legal Outplacement/Career Transition Coaching and Corporate Counsel Magazine’s Best Legal Outplacement/Career Transition Coaching in 2016. TRU was also recognized in 2019 as a Hall of Fame recipient in NLJ’s Best Legal Recruiter category. Jared is an active member of the legal and cybersecurity community and, in addition to his role on the Board of Editors for Cybersecurity Law & Strategy (an ALM Law Journal Newsletter), he has authored over ninety articles, regularly appeared on a dozen podcasts and webinars, and spoken at over fifty conferences. Coseglia was awarded Best Reviewed e-Discovery Session at Enfuse 2017 for his lecture and Q&A on “Transitioning Your Career from ESI to Cybersecurity” and was the recipient of a 2017 ILTA (International Legal Technology Association) Publication Award for Outstanding Magazine Article by a Business Partner for the article “Moving into Management: What You Need To Get From Here to There.” Coseglia is currently writing a regular series on cybersecurity, e-discovery, and privacy certifications for Legaltech News as well as a bi-monthly column about Chief Privacy Officers for CPO Magazine which can be read, along with all his original content, at www.trustaffingpartners.com. Jared on LinkedIn TRU Staffing Partners website link TRU Staffing Partners on LinkedIn TRU Staffing Partners on Twitter @trustaffingpart People and Resources Mentioned Amanda Brandenburg on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter  

The toughest job in recruitment is the role of a Billing Manager. You’re trying to build a team and run an office with all that entails -- hiring, training and managing recruiters.  Plus you’re trying to lead by example, looking after clients and making placements.  It’s certainly not easy - but it can be done.   My special guest, Jeff Herzog, has mastered the balancing act of the Billing Manager. Jeff is the President of F-O-R-T-U-N-E Personnel Consultants, an executive search franchisor with 62 offices that has been recognized as one of the top 1% of professional search firms in the United States. He also manages an office, FPC of New York City, recruiting for manufacturing companies nationwide.  On top of all that, he still runs a desk and maintains a high level of personal production. In this interview, Jeff shares his approach to making the most effective use of his time. He reveals how he uses technology combined with “resource allocation” to successfully run a franchising system while managing a recruitment office and running his own desk. Jeff provides lots of practical tips and approaches that really make sense.  Also, Jeff divulged strategies for engaging with candidates and overcoming the challenges of delivering them to your clients.  Episode Outline and Highlights [1:16] Having 62 offices in the US, Jeff shares his perspective in terms of what is happening in the market now and how that compares with last year. [6:30] Turndowns and counteroffers - Jeff shares 3 keys to reduce the risk. [15:10] Overcoming the challenges of delivering candidates with VA & technology.  [20:15] Sharing best technology tools for recruitment (aside from LinkedIn). [22:15] Three strategies for reaching out to candidates that are difficult to engage with.  [27:48] Learn the seven touches in 14 days rule when reaching out. [30:30] Juggling three full-time jobs at a time, how does Jeff do it? Two tips.  [40:27] When is the right time to hire and expand your business?  Overcoming the Challenges of Delivering Candidates After the recent disruption to the market caused by the pandemic, a lot of industries are now bouncing back and hiring a lot of talents. Rather than just getting job orders, Jeff believes that delivering candidates is a more difficult task. How should recruiters overcome this challenge? Jeff mentioned two best practices:  Technology - making sure that they fully utilize their own ATS (applicant tracking system) and CRM (customer relationship management) properly. VAs - Virtual assistant services are used in certain parts effectively. Jeff also gave an interesting insight on how technology should be utilized in the recruitment business. “AI can make us more efficient, but it’s never gonna replace recruiters…” Jeff truly believes that recruitment is a human business. Technology is a tool - having a high tech but high touch process will make us win in the long term. He concluded, “It is really balancing, not overplaying your hand with technology and not underplaying the importance of human connection.” Reach-Out Strategies I also asked Jeff - what has been his most effective strategy for reaching candidates that are difficult to engage with? He gave three key strategies: intuition research brute force Jeff shared, from personal experience, how he applied all three. As he mentioned, “We have so much more information today than we ever had before, but so much less connection.”  Running a Franchise While Managing His Own Desk Jeff is doing something that can be overwhelming to most of us - running a successful franchise operation, running his own desk making placements every month, and having an office with recruiters working for him. How does he manage to pull that off? Hear at least two pointers on resource allocation and working on your business. “Even if you’re a single desk recruiter on this call, right now. You have to look at what you do as a business. It’s not just a desk, you’re not just a recruiter, it is a full-fledged business and you need to have figured out how to be more efficient,” he explained. Hear how he further elaborated his mindset and how he started from scratch.  Jeff Herzog Bio and Contact Info Jeff Herzog, President and Chief Development Officer, F-O-R-T-U-N-E Franchise Corp. (FPC National). Jeff brings over 20 years of experience in recruitment and recruitment advertising from a variety of companies including Update Legal Staffing, CareerBuilder.com and Tribune Corporation. He was promoted to President of F-O-R-T-U-N-E in October 2016. Prior to that, in 2007, Jeff started FPC of New York City – a company owned recruiting office where he spent ten years placing mid to senior-level executives in life sciences companies around the country. Jeff was the Director of Recruitment and Real Estate Advertising for Newsday, a Tribune Publishing Company. There he managed a budget of over $80 million and oversaw a staff of over 70 employees. He was voted Manager of the Year and was one of the youngest employees to be selected to join the exclusive Tribune Leadership Development Program. Jeff came to Newsday via another Tribune subsidiary, CareerBuilder.com where he was the Area Sales Manager for the New York office. Jeff began his career in recruitment as the manager of the New Jersey office of Update Legal Staffing in 1997. Jeff graduated from SUNY Albany and he lives in Old Bethpage, NY with his wife Denise and their three sons, Benjamin, Derek and Chase. Jeff on LinkedIn FPC National website link FPC Franchise website link FPC National on Twitter @FPCnational FPC National on LinkedIn People and Resources Mentioned Doug Bougie on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR # 69 Recruitment Legends: Leadership and Life Lessons From 40 Years in the Global Recruiting Industry, with Doug Bugie Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Last year many recruiters struggled due to decreased hiring activity and lack of job orders. However, now most recruiters are experiencing the opposite challenge, saying “we have more orders than we can fill” and “we desperately need more placeable candidates.” This rapid shift to an extremely candidate-driven market, combined with high levels of counter offers and dropouts, means that candidates aren’t responding to recruiters like they used to. This is both a threat and an opportunity. If you’re able to secure the interest of passive candidates and get them to engage with the recruiting process, you will capture exclusive talent that isn’t available to your competitors or in-house TA teams. This is where my special guest, Alan Cutter, excels. In this episode of The Resilient Recruiter, you’ll hear Alan’s approach of adopting multiple models and a 12-step process to engage with both clients and candidates, combined with investing in HR tech and being ahead in terms of technology, and much, much more. Alan Cutter is the Founder and CEO of AC Lion, a Forbes rated “best recruiting firm in America” four years in a row. Focusing on digital talent, AC Lion builds leadership teams for growing, forward-looking companies. Their reach spans from innovative venture-backed startups to enterprise-level organizations. Episode Outline and Highlights [1:39] From New York to Israel - Alan’s 24-year recruitment career journey. [8:09] Helping tech start-ups - why Alan loves working with Founders. [13:28] The downsides of focusing on early-stage start-ups.  [15:28] Creating candidate engagement: how to get them to consider joining a start-up.  [26:36] Why LinkedIn and voicemail engagement may no longer be as effective for millennials. [31:30] A tip for explaining your USP (unique selling proposition) to clients. [34:41] Why candidates do not want to talk to recruiters the way they used to.  [37:30] After surviving and ultimately thriving post 3 economic downturns (2001, 2008, Covid), listen to Alan’s perspective on where recruitment will go from here. [42:38] Know about alternative business models - disrupting and approaching business differently. [50:19] Key learnings from Alan’s 24-year career and looking after your people. Adopting Multiple Models to Engage with Candidates and Clients Alan expressed his passion for helping start-up founders and how he is investing in the early-stage founder market. One of the challenges you can expect is attracting talent to join start-ups.  How would you convince a strong candidate to get interested in joining a company they’ve never even heard of before? What makes AC Lion’s approach unique is its creativity and persistence. “Today you have to do it like 12 steps,” Alan stated. He described how they engage with a candidate using multiple platforms, without making it look like a generic marketing campaign.  One good example of how they apply creativity is using video. Instead of a simple phone call or a traditional email, they use personalised video outreach to win more candidates efficiently and effectively. Hear how Alan’s team leverages video and why you should consider applying this approach in your own business. Why Candidates Do Not Want to Talk to Recruiters the Way They Used To During our conversation, Alan mentioned that candidates do not want to talk to recruiters the way they used to. Why is that? He elaborated, “I think they assume that everything is very transactional right now… there is so much information and data coming at people. I can’t even keep up with my WhatsApp, Telegram, text messages, emails, I have 15 email accounts, so Facebook, LinkedIn, I mean Instagram, TikTok, right?” Alan believes that with too much data coming in, more candidates would not have time to talk to recruiters like before. But he also stated a very valid point on how some candidates feel more ‘guarded’ or sceptical towards recruiters. Listen to how you can overcome this potential blocker as Alan shared from personal experience how they use two approaches and how it works for them. Life and Work Balance  Alan had been living in Longbeach, New York but he and his wife always wanted to live in Israel. Listen to the challenges he faced as he moved towards this goal, as well as the rewards, of ultimately leading a U.S. based recruiting firm from abroad.  Alan Cutter Bio and Contact Info Alan Cutter is the Founder and CEO of AC Lion, a Forbes rated “best recruiting firm in America” four years in a row.  AC Lion’s functional specialities’ include Senior Sales, Marketing, Product Management and HR/Talent.  AC Lion’s Industry Expertise include Media/Ad Tech, Fintech, Mar tech, Ecommerce &, Health-tech  AC Lion has offices in New York, Los Angeles, Atlanta, and Israel. In addition to its core practice, Alan founded a recruitment innovation lab and investment arm, AC Lion Venture Partners, to invest in companies, challenge the status quo, build new paths and re-imagine outdated traditional models utilizing the new paradigm including Blockchain, Autonomous, IoT, Artificial Intelligence and Mobile-First technology.  Much of Alan's success can be attributed to his belief in and passion for people; ask any of Alan's clients or employees and he/she will speak volumes of their boss's care, consideration, as a complement to his innovative thinking and out-of-the-box problem-solving capabilities. That's an entrepreneur, leader, Board Member and driver of innovation in today's HR world. Alan’s a huge believer in work-life balance – relocating his wife and 4 kids to Israel just 2.5 years ago, volunteering for numerous community charities, is an avid surfer and Mountain Biker. Alan on LinkedIn Alan on Twitter @aclionceo AC Lion website link AC Lion on Facebook AC Lion on Youtube People and Resources Mentioned Winning the Staffing Sales Game: The Definitive Game Plan for Sales Success in the Staffing Industry by Tom Erb  David Bernstein on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter  

For almost 40 years, Doug Bugie has travelled the globe in search of the big billers and recruitment leaders of the future.  He’s personally sold 800 recruitment franchises in 40 countries that collectively have filled over 100,000 assignments. It’s a great privilege to interview Doug for the second time. In this episode, Doug shares his unique experience of helping James Caan, of Dragon’s Den fame, launch Humana International. In 7 years, they grew Humana to 200 offices in 27 countries and $90m before the business was acquired by MRI in 2001. Doug reveals some of the insights gained and lessons learned from working closely with James and other recruitment industry legends.    You will hear a comparison between recruiting in the UK and the US, plus Doug’s insightful perspective on the future of the recruitment industry, the need to balance between humanity and technology, and much more. Doug represents FPC, a top 1% performer in the recruitment industry as ranked by Forbes, and ranked top 50 in franchisee satisfaction by Franchise Business Review. Outside the US, Doug represents Antal International, ranked by Recruiter Magazine as one of the UK’s fastest-growing recruitment companies and listed on the Sunday Times International Fast Track.   Episode Outline and Highlights [2:08] The industry is roaring back! Listen to Doug’s assessment of the current market. [5:36] Balancing humanity and technology in recruitment. [6:58] Building a business with James Caan.   [12:23] “Observe the masses and do the opposite.”  [18:30] How the ‘recruitment to recruitment’ industry was pioneered. [20:27] Comparison between the UK and US recruiting industries. [27:34] Doug shares the humble beginnings of Humana International  Bouncing Back From Failure to Build a Business with James Caan In our interview, Doug describes his colourful career in executive search starting in the 80’s with MRI (Management Recruiters International) and how a failure to achieve one of his life’s ambitions ultimately led to him building a business with James Caan.  Doug describes how he put his entire life savings into running for a seat in the US Congress and lost everything. While this was a crushing disappointment at the time, this setback opened the door to a new opportunity -- one he most likely would never have entertained had his congressional ambitions been fulfilled.  When James Caan invited him to move to the UK in 1992 to start a new business, it didn’t seem on the surface like the incredible, career-defining moment that it later proved to be.  At the time, James was a charismatic young “upstart” with an office above a Fish and Chip shop.  However, Doug recognized the leadership qualities that would eventually enable James to achieve spectacular success in building and scaling companies globally. As Doug puts it, “James could attract people and get them to buy into the mission and get them to really want it.”  A Solid Career of Wisdom and Experience Doug’s more than three decades of career in recruitment enabled him to gain experience and learnings you will find valuable in today’s competitive environment. In our conversation, you will hear him share how James Caan revolutionised the executive search industry in the UK and pioneered the ‘rec to rec’ sector.  He highlights one of the keys to James’ extraordinary success -- a philosophy that Doug believes still resonates today: “Observe the masses, and do the opposite.”  The Differences Between the US and UK Recruitment Industry and the Invention of the ‘Recruitment to Recruitment’ Having worked and lived in both the UK and the US, Doug shared his observations and personal opinion on the differences between recruiting in both markets. In particular, we discussed the “rec to rec” space since Doug witnessed the birth of that industry. Hear his insights about this subject and how it is relevant to the ongoing evolution of the recruitment industry. Doug Bugie Bio and Contact Info Doug Bugie’s career in recruitment spans over three decades where he’s mainly worked in the niche of recruitment franchising. He is the president of Next Wave Global Franchise Systems LLC, which has formed a strategic partnership with FPC National to exclusively sell FPC Franchises. Doug has extensive experience in the recruitment franchise industry - from being an investor, top executive, to becoming a consultant. He was CEO and president of Antal International Network - an executive recruiting company with 130 offices spanning 33 countries, with Tony Goodwin. He was the CEO of Norman Broadbent, based in the UK. Arriving in London in 1992, Doug also co-founded the recruitment franchise Humana International with James Caan, the entrepreneur on the well known UK TV show Dragons Den. Humana, in only 7 years, grew to over 200 offices in 27 countries and over $90m. Humana was awarded the top international franchise in the UK by the British Franchise Association. Doug on LinkedIn FPC website link Antal International website link Doug on Twitter: @DougBugie People and Resources Mentioned James Caan on LinkedIn  Jeff Herzog on LinkedIn Tony Goodwin  of Antal International Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR # 3 The 4 Qualities of The World’s Top Recruitment Leaders, with Doug Bugie Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Many recruiters and employers alike believe the traditional recruitment agency model is inefficient and outdated. If you are interested in finding better ways of partnering with clients that are beneficial to both parties, then my special guest, Lisa Dixon, will explain how RPO and MSP services could extend the range of recruitment solutions you’re able to provide. Lisa is the Director of Infinite Players based in London, helping recruitment agencies develop and bring to market their unique Managed Service Programme (MSP) & Recruitment Process Outsourcing (RPO) service. Previously, as Managing Director of InterQuest Solutions, Lisa set up an RPO division that became the best performing business in the InterQuest group. With 25 years of experience in recruitment outsourcing across different industries and sectors, she’s been described as the “Jedi Master” of MSP and RPO services.  Episode Outline and Highlights [3:30] Explanation of RPO & MSP business models for small to medium-sized recruitment firms. [7:40] Benefits of MSP arrangements to both clients and recruiters. [10:04] How RPO differs from MSP. [14:27] Things to consider when offering different recruitment solutions for your existing clients. [17:45] Vendor Management Systems - hear Lisa’s perspective. [21:50] Lisa talks about 3 different approaches for billing/fee structures. [25:44] How Lisa established and made InterQuest Solutions one of the best businesses in its group, her challenges and successes. [31:29] How Lisa built a team of 22 recruiters in two weeks to deliver an RPO project. [35:39] Losing 80% of business overnight and her mindset during the pandemic. [38:46] Why is there an increased interest in RPO and MSP solutions?  [43:45] Lisa explains the Design, Engage & Win, and Anchor & Expand strategy What RPO and MSP Means for a Small or Medium-Sized Recruitment Business With specialization and expertise in Managed Service Programme (MSP) & Recruitment Process Outsourcing (RPO) services, Lisa explained how this could work for small and medium recruitment businesses. The difference between the two is the type of client each model can provide.  An RPO can deliver long-term permanent employees, while MSP is focused on delivering contingent employees such as contractors, temps and interims. She also laid out specific benefits for both parties.  Benefits for clients: Clients have quick access to the skills that they need Clients have the comfort that they’re working with a company that understands their market really well Delivers operational efficiencies and time savings for the client Benefits for recruiters: Exclusivity on all jobs Long term commitment, usually three-year contracts Predictable billings and cashflow Behind the scenes, there is a lot of effort and technology involved to set up this type of programme. Lisa details how these mechanisms work and the payoff. The D.E.W.A Solution Lisa explained the stages involved in developing a new recruitment solution, such as an RPO or MSP service. The phases are: Phase 1 - Design Phase 2- Engage Phase 3 - Win Phase 4 - Anchor and Expand Lisa also shares her insights on why there is an increased interest in the RPO and MSP business models. Resilience and Achievements In this interview, Lisa shared both her successes and her struggles. She described how she was able to establish Interquest Solutions as the leading businesses in the group.  She also gave a breakdown of how she built a team of 22 recruiters in two weeks for an RPO project! On the flip side, she revealed that she lost 80% of her business during the covid crisis. Her mindset and story of grit can definitely inspire you to bounce back from adversity to achieve your goals.  Lisa Dixon Bio and Contact Info Lisa is the Director of Infinite Players based in London, UK. She has 25 years in recruitment outsourcing, working across multiple sectors and countries. In 2009, she joined InterQuest Group to set up InterQuest Solutions, a business that provides innovative managed services, recruitment outsourcing and recruitment consulting services focused on delivering against clients’ recruitment goals. Lisa’s passionate about helping recruitment agencies and employers resolve their recruitment challenges. Lisa on LinkedIn Infinite Players website link Infinite Players on Facebook Infinite Players on Instagram Infinite Players on Youtube People and Resources Mentioned Will Bourne on LinkedIn James Leighton on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#56 Top Biller and Former MMA Fighter Reveals How He Defeated Depression and Anxiety, with Will Bourne TRR#61 Client Partnerships: How to Grow a Thriving Recruitment Business in a Crisis, with James Leighton Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter  

This week on The Resilient Recruiter our most popular guest of all time, Rich Rosen, returns for his second interview.  Previously, Rich shared the mindset and habits that made him a consistent top biller in the industry. This time, you will hear Rich’s unorthodox yet effective approach to client and candidate engagement, leading to high levels of repeat businesses and referrals. These are key factors for anyone who wants to achieve consistent billings and sustainable success in recruiting. What is cool about Rich is that he is a ‘regular guy’ who achieves exceptional results. Most years, Rich bills around a million dollars from his home office just outside of Boston, yet he is very modest and is willing to share his knowledge and experience to benefit others.  You are going to hear about Rich’s recent shift from contingency to engaged search, including the exact pitch he uses to close 4 out of 5 recent assignments. Rich also talks about the recent increase in candidate dropout rates and shares a real anecdote about a candidate ghosting him at the offer stage, and the hilarious tactic Rich used to finally get the candidate to respond, plus much more! Episode Outline and Highlights [4:55] Transitioning from pure contingency to retained or engaged search [10:07] Rich’s key to getting the majority of his business from repeat clients and referrals. [15:36] Why did Rich fire a client at the beginning of this year? [18:30] Hear the different criteria that make a good client. [22:52] Revelation of Rich’s “zoo”-like experience during the pandemic. [29:35] How to deal with ghosting from clients or candidates. [33:00] Key pointers in rapport building. [42:35] Sending a ‘breakup’ note to a candidate. [47:54] Rich’s favourite tools and tech for recruiters. Consistent Repeat Clients and Referrals Part of Rich’s success is getting most of his business from repeat clients and referrals. The partnership-focused spirit that he exudes as well as his approachable personality makes it easy for him to get repeat businesses. When I asked him about this, he shared a couple of key pointers. Doing the right business with the right people. Rich said, “For me, it’s all about working with good people. I have zero tolerance towards working with jerks and people that treat you like garbage.” He shared actual experiences on what types of clients he avoids.   Being real with anyone. “I think I’m extremely real with everyone. I talk to everyone the same way whether you're the secretary or you're the CEO.” Hear how Rich relates this to having future referrals and how it can lead you to a ‘win in the end’. Have You Been Ghosted? Here is How to Deal with It Being ghosted by a client or a candidate can be frustrating, but this is something that a recruiter should expect to happen. Nowadays, it seems acceptable for some to just stop communicating without returning a call or providing honest feedback. Rich shared a very interesting experience during my interview and how he used a very unconventional way of addressing it.  I also asked Rich what we can do to minimize or deal with ghosting from clients or candidates. For Rich, it boils down to building trust and relationships. “I think all that you can do is to build that trust with your candidate, build the relationship up and you got to be more than just a recruiter.”  Listen to Rich’s viewpoint and how he further shared, from experience, ways in which he is able to build that trust and relationship with his candidates and clients. Sending a Break-Up Email to a Candidate How do you deal with a candidate who suddenly disappears and has lost interest? Hear best practices on communicating with such cases. Rich and I shared our approach and how you can keep future options open. Also, hear a piece of really insightful advice that was shared to Rich by an industry veteran with regard to “chasing” candidates. Keeping Up with Technology A big bonus in this episode is that Rich shared the tools he is using for CRM, campaign management, and all recruitment related tech tools you might have not heard before! Links are below, but hear how these tools can be effectively used. Rich Rosen Bio and Contact Info  Rich is the president of Cornerstone Search, named by Forbes Magazine in the Top 20 Executive Search Firm in America for two years in a row. Rich has run his own recruiting firm for 25 years and is one of the top billers in the industry. Quietly billing $850k to a million dollars year after year from his home office in Boston. Rich has been a leading member of The Pinnacle Society, a consortium of the top 80 headhunters in the world, since 2016. Rich on LinkedIn Cornerstone Search website link Cornerstone on Facebook Cornerstone on Twitter @RichRoRecruiter People and Resources Mentioned Chris Schoettelkotte on LinkedIn Outplay Email Campaign Manager website link Interseller website link Appsumo website link Clearout email validation website link WhoKnows website link Chatterworks website link Crystal Knows website link Traq365 website link Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#6 Habits of a Million-Dollar Biller, with Rich Rosen Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter    

When scaling your recruitment business, one of the biggest challenges you have most likely experienced is finding good recruiters to join your own team. In this episode, my very special guest, Leanne Jones Hunt, shares her unique perspective on recruiting recruiters based on having successfully placed over 700 recruiters with growing recruitment businesses.  Leanne is my Chief Operations Officer, and also a fellow coach here at Recruitment Coach. Leanne started her recruiting career in 2010, after completing her Master’s Degree in Law. Eventually, she launched her own recruitment agency in the recruitment to recruitment or “Rec to Rec” space which she ran for five years before entering the coaching industry. Episode Outline and Highlights [2:20] Leanne’s career highlights, including billing £47,000 in her first 5 weeks and being promoted to director within 12 months [5:55] What is “Rec to Rec”? [13:15] Discussion on career progression in the recruitment industry. [16:04] Characteristics of successful recruiters that business owners should look for [21:05] How Leanne started her own recruitment business at a very young age. [33:46] Business model: 180 vs 360 degree billers - which is better? [38:15] Effective assessment methods for recruiting recruiters. [45:00] Best practices for hiring great recruiters. [48:30] Improving your employee retention. [55:05] Resilience: What was Leanne’s biggest challenge in her recruitment business? The Challenge of Recruiting Recruiters What are the characteristics of successful recruiters that business owners should look for when they are hiring for their own teams? Indeed, one of the ironies in the recruitment industry especially for growing businesses is that it can be challenging to find and recruit good recruiters. Having been a top-performing recruiter herself, as well as running her own recruitment agency and placing recruiters with some of the fastest-growing recruitment companies in the country, Leanne is well placed to provide perspectives on the characteristics of effective recruiters. This is how Leanne puts it, “There are quite a few different traits that make up a good recruiter. But for me, it was work ethic and urgency.” During our interview, Leanne shared her own experience and how it shaped her mindset on why she places such value on work ethic and having a sense of urgency. Leanne encourages business owners to think beyond the typical profile of salesy, extrovert types who are very confident, maybe with a background as a real estate agent or telesales.   “Throughout my career, I tried to challenge the status quo and it did work.” Leanne gave an example of someone she placed who was celebrating their 7th anniversary with the company who broke the mould of what a stereotypical recruiter looks like. Assessment Methods: How to Ensure You Hire the Right Person for Your Growing Recruitment Business What are some of the most effective assessment methods when hiring a good recruiter? Having a thorough hiring process can definitely help when increasing the success rate and retention of new recruiters. So based on experience, what are the best hiring processes that Leanne has seen when working in the recruitment space? Some of her top methods include:  Introduce a working interview/trial day as a stage in the hiring process Focus on assessing their skills, not just a subjective decision based on the way they come across Develop a structured training program Listen to the full interview to hear other takeaways, especially on mistakes and success factors when scaling your business and growing your team of recruiters. Leanne Sara Jones Hunt Bio and Contact Info Leanne Sara Jones Hunt is our Chief Operations Officer here at Recruitment Coach.  Prior to joining forces with Mark, Leanne worked in the recruitment-to-recruitment space in London for 10+ years and placed over 700 recruiters with some of the fastest-growing recruitment companies in the UK. She ran her own successful recruitment-to-recruitment business, Excell Jones, for 5 years which placed trainees/graduates into the recruitment arena.   Before starting her own business, Leanne rapidly progressed from graduate trainee all the way to director.  She has performed every role from office manager, resourcer, 360 recruiter and billing manager.  As a manager, she created extensive training manuals and developed multiple trainees from scratch who didn’t have any recruitment experience to become successful billing recruiters.   In addition to her role as COO, Leanne is also a Coach for our Inner Circle members, and is the resident ‘Queen of Automation’. She regularly shares the secrets on how she was able to claw back 30% of her time through implementing various automation processes, strategies and systems.  Leanne has successfully hired, trained and managed teams of virtual assistants. As well as holding the Inner Circle members accountable, and inspiring them to take action to implement strategies, Leanne is also able to share with our Inner Circle members how to hire and manage a remote team.  Leanne on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter