The Resilient Recruiter

Last year many recruiters struggled due to decreased hiring activity and lack of job orders. However, now most recruiters are experiencing the opposite challenge, saying “we have more orders than we can fill” and “we desperately need more placeable candidates.” This rapid shift to an extremely candidate-driven market, combined with high levels of counter offers and dropouts, means that candidates aren’t responding to recruiters like they used to. This is both a threat and an opportunity. If you’re able to secure the interest of passive candidates and get them to engage with the recruiting process, you will capture exclusive talent that isn’t available to your competitors or in-house TA teams. This is where my special guest, Alan Cutter, excels. In this episode of The Resilient Recruiter, you’ll hear Alan’s approach of adopting multiple models and a 12-step process to engage with both clients and candidates, combined with investing in HR tech and being ahead in terms of technology, and much, much more. Alan Cutter is the Founder and CEO of AC Lion, a Forbes rated “best recruiting firm in America” four years in a row. Focusing on digital talent, AC Lion builds leadership teams for growing, forward-looking companies. Their reach spans from innovative venture-backed startups to enterprise-level organizations. Episode Outline and Highlights [1:39] From New York to Israel - Alan’s 24-year recruitment career journey. [8:09] Helping tech start-ups - why Alan loves working with Founders. [13:28] The downsides of focusing on early-stage start-ups.  [15:28] Creating candidate engagement: how to get them to consider joining a start-up.  [26:36] Why LinkedIn and voicemail engagement may no longer be as effective for millennials. [31:30] A tip for explaining your USP (unique selling proposition) to clients. [34:41] Why candidates do not want to talk to recruiters the way they used to.  [37:30] After surviving and ultimately thriving post 3 economic downturns (2001, 2008, Covid), listen to Alan’s perspective on where recruitment will go from here. [42:38] Know about alternative business models - disrupting and approaching business differently. [50:19] Key learnings from Alan’s 24-year career and looking after your people. Adopting Multiple Models to Engage with Candidates and Clients Alan expressed his passion for helping start-up founders and how he is investing in the early-stage founder market. One of the challenges you can expect is attracting talent to join start-ups.  How would you convince a strong candidate to get interested in joining a company they’ve never even heard of before? What makes AC Lion’s approach unique is its creativity and persistence. “Today you have to do it like 12 steps,” Alan stated. He described how they engage with a candidate using multiple platforms, without making it look like a generic marketing campaign.  One good example of how they apply creativity is using video. Instead of a simple phone call or a traditional email, they use personalised video outreach to win more candidates efficiently and effectively. Hear how Alan’s team leverages video and why you should consider applying this approach in your own business. Why Candidates Do Not Want to Talk to Recruiters the Way They Used To During our conversation, Alan mentioned that candidates do not want to talk to recruiters the way they used to. Why is that? He elaborated, “I think they assume that everything is very transactional right now… there is so much information and data coming at people. I can’t even keep up with my WhatsApp, Telegram, text messages, emails, I have 15 email accounts, so Facebook, LinkedIn, I mean Instagram, TikTok, right?” Alan believes that with too much data coming in, more candidates would not have time to talk to recruiters like before. But he also stated a very valid point on how some candidates feel more ‘guarded’ or sceptical towards recruiters. Listen to how you can overcome this potential blocker as Alan shared from personal experience how they use two approaches and how it works for them. Life and Work Balance  Alan had been living in Longbeach, New York but he and his wife always wanted to live in Israel. Listen to the challenges he faced as he moved towards this goal, as well as the rewards, of ultimately leading a U.S. based recruiting firm from abroad.  Alan Cutter Bio and Contact Info Alan Cutter is the Founder and CEO of AC Lion, a Forbes rated “best recruiting firm in America” four years in a row.  AC Lion’s functional specialities’ include Senior Sales, Marketing, Product Management and HR/Talent.  AC Lion’s Industry Expertise include Media/Ad Tech, Fintech, Mar tech, Ecommerce &, Health-tech  AC Lion has offices in New York, Los Angeles, Atlanta, and Israel. In addition to its core practice, Alan founded a recruitment innovation lab and investment arm, AC Lion Venture Partners, to invest in companies, challenge the status quo, build new paths and re-imagine outdated traditional models utilizing the new paradigm including Blockchain, Autonomous, IoT, Artificial Intelligence and Mobile-First technology.  Much of Alan's success can be attributed to his belief in and passion for people; ask any of Alan's clients or employees and he/she will speak volumes of their boss's care, consideration, as a complement to his innovative thinking and out-of-the-box problem-solving capabilities. That's an entrepreneur, leader, Board Member and driver of innovation in today's HR world. Alan’s a huge believer in work-life balance – relocating his wife and 4 kids to Israel just 2.5 years ago, volunteering for numerous community charities, is an avid surfer and Mountain Biker. Alan on LinkedIn Alan on Twitter @aclionceo AC Lion website link AC Lion on Facebook AC Lion on Youtube People and Resources Mentioned Winning the Staffing Sales Game: The Definitive Game Plan for Sales Success in the Staffing Industry by Tom Erb  David Bernstein on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter  

For almost 40 years, Doug Bugie has travelled the globe in search of the big billers and recruitment leaders of the future.  He’s personally sold 800 recruitment franchises in 40 countries that collectively have filled over 100,000 assignments. It’s a great privilege to interview Doug for the second time. In this episode, Doug shares his unique experience of helping James Caan, of Dragon’s Den fame, launch Humana International. In 7 years, they grew Humana to 200 offices in 27 countries and $90m before the business was acquired by MRI in 2001. Doug reveals some of the insights gained and lessons learned from working closely with James and other recruitment industry legends.    You will hear a comparison between recruiting in the UK and the US, plus Doug’s insightful perspective on the future of the recruitment industry, the need to balance between humanity and technology, and much more. Doug represents FPC, a top 1% performer in the recruitment industry as ranked by Forbes, and ranked top 50 in franchisee satisfaction by Franchise Business Review. Outside the US, Doug represents Antal International, ranked by Recruiter Magazine as one of the UK’s fastest-growing recruitment companies and listed on the Sunday Times International Fast Track.   Episode Outline and Highlights [2:08] The industry is roaring back! Listen to Doug’s assessment of the current market. [5:36] Balancing humanity and technology in recruitment. [6:58] Building a business with James Caan.   [12:23] “Observe the masses and do the opposite.”  [18:30] How the ‘recruitment to recruitment’ industry was pioneered. [20:27] Comparison between the UK and US recruiting industries. [27:34] Doug shares the humble beginnings of Humana International  Bouncing Back From Failure to Build a Business with James Caan In our interview, Doug describes his colourful career in executive search starting in the 80’s with MRI (Management Recruiters International) and how a failure to achieve one of his life’s ambitions ultimately led to him building a business with James Caan.  Doug describes how he put his entire life savings into running for a seat in the US Congress and lost everything. While this was a crushing disappointment at the time, this setback opened the door to a new opportunity -- one he most likely would never have entertained had his congressional ambitions been fulfilled.  When James Caan invited him to move to the UK in 1992 to start a new business, it didn’t seem on the surface like the incredible, career-defining moment that it later proved to be.  At the time, James was a charismatic young “upstart” with an office above a Fish and Chip shop.  However, Doug recognized the leadership qualities that would eventually enable James to achieve spectacular success in building and scaling companies globally. As Doug puts it, “James could attract people and get them to buy into the mission and get them to really want it.”  A Solid Career of Wisdom and Experience Doug’s more than three decades of career in recruitment enabled him to gain experience and learnings you will find valuable in today’s competitive environment. In our conversation, you will hear him share how James Caan revolutionised the executive search industry in the UK and pioneered the ‘rec to rec’ sector.  He highlights one of the keys to James’ extraordinary success -- a philosophy that Doug believes still resonates today: “Observe the masses, and do the opposite.”  The Differences Between the US and UK Recruitment Industry and the Invention of the ‘Recruitment to Recruitment’ Having worked and lived in both the UK and the US, Doug shared his observations and personal opinion on the differences between recruiting in both markets. In particular, we discussed the “rec to rec” space since Doug witnessed the birth of that industry. Hear his insights about this subject and how it is relevant to the ongoing evolution of the recruitment industry. Doug Bugie Bio and Contact Info Doug Bugie’s career in recruitment spans over three decades where he’s mainly worked in the niche of recruitment franchising. He is the president of Next Wave Global Franchise Systems LLC, which has formed a strategic partnership with FPC National to exclusively sell FPC Franchises. Doug has extensive experience in the recruitment franchise industry - from being an investor, top executive, to becoming a consultant. He was CEO and president of Antal International Network - an executive recruiting company with 130 offices spanning 33 countries, with Tony Goodwin. He was the CEO of Norman Broadbent, based in the UK. Arriving in London in 1992, Doug also co-founded the recruitment franchise Humana International with James Caan, the entrepreneur on the well known UK TV show Dragons Den. Humana, in only 7 years, grew to over 200 offices in 27 countries and over $90m. Humana was awarded the top international franchise in the UK by the British Franchise Association. Doug on LinkedIn FPC website link Antal International website link Doug on Twitter: @DougBugie People and Resources Mentioned James Caan on LinkedIn  Jeff Herzog on LinkedIn Tony Goodwin  of Antal International Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR # 3 The 4 Qualities of The World’s Top Recruitment Leaders, with Doug Bugie Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Many recruiters and employers alike believe the traditional recruitment agency model is inefficient and outdated. If you are interested in finding better ways of partnering with clients that are beneficial to both parties, then my special guest, Lisa Dixon, will explain how RPO and MSP services could extend the range of recruitment solutions you’re able to provide. Lisa is the Director of Infinite Players based in London, helping recruitment agencies develop and bring to market their unique Managed Service Programme (MSP) & Recruitment Process Outsourcing (RPO) service. Previously, as Managing Director of InterQuest Solutions, Lisa set up an RPO division that became the best performing business in the InterQuest group. With 25 years of experience in recruitment outsourcing across different industries and sectors, she’s been described as the “Jedi Master” of MSP and RPO services.  Episode Outline and Highlights [3:30] Explanation of RPO & MSP business models for small to medium-sized recruitment firms. [7:40] Benefits of MSP arrangements to both clients and recruiters. [10:04] How RPO differs from MSP. [14:27] Things to consider when offering different recruitment solutions for your existing clients. [17:45] Vendor Management Systems - hear Lisa’s perspective. [21:50] Lisa talks about 3 different approaches for billing/fee structures. [25:44] How Lisa established and made InterQuest Solutions one of the best businesses in its group, her challenges and successes. [31:29] How Lisa built a team of 22 recruiters in two weeks to deliver an RPO project. [35:39] Losing 80% of business overnight and her mindset during the pandemic. [38:46] Why is there an increased interest in RPO and MSP solutions?  [43:45] Lisa explains the Design, Engage & Win, and Anchor & Expand strategy What RPO and MSP Means for a Small or Medium-Sized Recruitment Business With specialization and expertise in Managed Service Programme (MSP) & Recruitment Process Outsourcing (RPO) services, Lisa explained how this could work for small and medium recruitment businesses. The difference between the two is the type of client each model can provide.  An RPO can deliver long-term permanent employees, while MSP is focused on delivering contingent employees such as contractors, temps and interims. She also laid out specific benefits for both parties.  Benefits for clients: Clients have quick access to the skills that they need Clients have the comfort that they’re working with a company that understands their market really well Delivers operational efficiencies and time savings for the client Benefits for recruiters: Exclusivity on all jobs Long term commitment, usually three-year contracts Predictable billings and cashflow Behind the scenes, there is a lot of effort and technology involved to set up this type of programme. Lisa details how these mechanisms work and the payoff. The D.E.W.A Solution Lisa explained the stages involved in developing a new recruitment solution, such as an RPO or MSP service. The phases are: Phase 1 - Design Phase 2- Engage Phase 3 - Win Phase 4 - Anchor and Expand Lisa also shares her insights on why there is an increased interest in the RPO and MSP business models. Resilience and Achievements In this interview, Lisa shared both her successes and her struggles. She described how she was able to establish Interquest Solutions as the leading businesses in the group.  She also gave a breakdown of how she built a team of 22 recruiters in two weeks for an RPO project! On the flip side, she revealed that she lost 80% of her business during the covid crisis. Her mindset and story of grit can definitely inspire you to bounce back from adversity to achieve your goals.  Lisa Dixon Bio and Contact Info Lisa is the Director of Infinite Players based in London, UK. She has 25 years in recruitment outsourcing, working across multiple sectors and countries. In 2009, she joined InterQuest Group to set up InterQuest Solutions, a business that provides innovative managed services, recruitment outsourcing and recruitment consulting services focused on delivering against clients’ recruitment goals. Lisa’s passionate about helping recruitment agencies and employers resolve their recruitment challenges. Lisa on LinkedIn Infinite Players website link Infinite Players on Facebook Infinite Players on Instagram Infinite Players on Youtube People and Resources Mentioned Will Bourne on LinkedIn James Leighton on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#56 Top Biller and Former MMA Fighter Reveals How He Defeated Depression and Anxiety, with Will Bourne TRR#61 Client Partnerships: How to Grow a Thriving Recruitment Business in a Crisis, with James Leighton Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter  

This week on The Resilient Recruiter our most popular guest of all time, Rich Rosen, returns for his second interview.  Previously, Rich shared the mindset and habits that made him a consistent top biller in the industry. This time, you will hear Rich’s unorthodox yet effective approach to client and candidate engagement, leading to high levels of repeat businesses and referrals. These are key factors for anyone who wants to achieve consistent billings and sustainable success in recruiting. What is cool about Rich is that he is a ‘regular guy’ who achieves exceptional results. Most years, Rich bills around a million dollars from his home office just outside of Boston, yet he is very modest and is willing to share his knowledge and experience to benefit others.  You are going to hear about Rich’s recent shift from contingency to engaged search, including the exact pitch he uses to close 4 out of 5 recent assignments. Rich also talks about the recent increase in candidate dropout rates and shares a real anecdote about a candidate ghosting him at the offer stage, and the hilarious tactic Rich used to finally get the candidate to respond, plus much more! Episode Outline and Highlights [4:55] Transitioning from pure contingency to retained or engaged search [10:07] Rich’s key to getting the majority of his business from repeat clients and referrals. [15:36] Why did Rich fire a client at the beginning of this year? [18:30] Hear the different criteria that make a good client. [22:52] Revelation of Rich’s “zoo”-like experience during the pandemic. [29:35] How to deal with ghosting from clients or candidates. [33:00] Key pointers in rapport building. [42:35] Sending a ‘breakup’ note to a candidate. [47:54] Rich’s favourite tools and tech for recruiters. Consistent Repeat Clients and Referrals Part of Rich’s success is getting most of his business from repeat clients and referrals. The partnership-focused spirit that he exudes as well as his approachable personality makes it easy for him to get repeat businesses. When I asked him about this, he shared a couple of key pointers. Doing the right business with the right people. Rich said, “For me, it’s all about working with good people. I have zero tolerance towards working with jerks and people that treat you like garbage.” He shared actual experiences on what types of clients he avoids.   Being real with anyone. “I think I’m extremely real with everyone. I talk to everyone the same way whether you're the secretary or you're the CEO.” Hear how Rich relates this to having future referrals and how it can lead you to a ‘win in the end’. Have You Been Ghosted? Here is How to Deal with It Being ghosted by a client or a candidate can be frustrating, but this is something that a recruiter should expect to happen. Nowadays, it seems acceptable for some to just stop communicating without returning a call or providing honest feedback. Rich shared a very interesting experience during my interview and how he used a very unconventional way of addressing it.  I also asked Rich what we can do to minimize or deal with ghosting from clients or candidates. For Rich, it boils down to building trust and relationships. “I think all that you can do is to build that trust with your candidate, build the relationship up and you got to be more than just a recruiter.”  Listen to Rich’s viewpoint and how he further shared, from experience, ways in which he is able to build that trust and relationship with his candidates and clients. Sending a Break-Up Email to a Candidate How do you deal with a candidate who suddenly disappears and has lost interest? Hear best practices on communicating with such cases. Rich and I shared our approach and how you can keep future options open. Also, hear a piece of really insightful advice that was shared to Rich by an industry veteran with regard to “chasing” candidates. Keeping Up with Technology A big bonus in this episode is that Rich shared the tools he is using for CRM, campaign management, and all recruitment related tech tools you might have not heard before! Links are below, but hear how these tools can be effectively used. Rich Rosen Bio and Contact Info  Rich is the president of Cornerstone Search, named by Forbes Magazine in the Top 20 Executive Search Firm in America for two years in a row. Rich has run his own recruiting firm for 25 years and is one of the top billers in the industry. Quietly billing $850k to a million dollars year after year from his home office in Boston. Rich has been a leading member of The Pinnacle Society, a consortium of the top 80 headhunters in the world, since 2016. Rich on LinkedIn Cornerstone Search website link Cornerstone on Facebook Cornerstone on Twitter @RichRoRecruiter People and Resources Mentioned Chris Schoettelkotte on LinkedIn Outplay Email Campaign Manager website link Interseller website link Appsumo website link Clearout email validation website link WhoKnows website link Chatterworks website link Crystal Knows website link Traq365 website link Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#6 Habits of a Million-Dollar Biller, with Rich Rosen Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter    

When scaling your recruitment business, one of the biggest challenges you have most likely experienced is finding good recruiters to join your own team. In this episode, my very special guest, Leanne Jones Hunt, shares her unique perspective on recruiting recruiters based on having successfully placed over 700 recruiters with growing recruitment businesses.  Leanne is my Chief Operations Officer, and also a fellow coach here at Recruitment Coach. Leanne started her recruiting career in 2010, after completing her Master’s Degree in Law. Eventually, she launched her own recruitment agency in the recruitment to recruitment or “Rec to Rec” space which she ran for five years before entering the coaching industry. Episode Outline and Highlights [2:20] Leanne’s career highlights, including billing £47,000 in her first 5 weeks and being promoted to director within 12 months [5:55] What is “Rec to Rec”? [13:15] Discussion on career progression in the recruitment industry. [16:04] Characteristics of successful recruiters that business owners should look for [21:05] How Leanne started her own recruitment business at a very young age. [33:46] Business model: 180 vs 360 degree billers - which is better? [38:15] Effective assessment methods for recruiting recruiters. [45:00] Best practices for hiring great recruiters. [48:30] Improving your employee retention. [55:05] Resilience: What was Leanne’s biggest challenge in her recruitment business? The Challenge of Recruiting Recruiters What are the characteristics of successful recruiters that business owners should look for when they are hiring for their own teams? Indeed, one of the ironies in the recruitment industry especially for growing businesses is that it can be challenging to find and recruit good recruiters. Having been a top-performing recruiter herself, as well as running her own recruitment agency and placing recruiters with some of the fastest-growing recruitment companies in the country, Leanne is well placed to provide perspectives on the characteristics of effective recruiters. This is how Leanne puts it, “There are quite a few different traits that make up a good recruiter. But for me, it was work ethic and urgency.” During our interview, Leanne shared her own experience and how it shaped her mindset on why she places such value on work ethic and having a sense of urgency. Leanne encourages business owners to think beyond the typical profile of salesy, extrovert types who are very confident, maybe with a background as a real estate agent or telesales.   “Throughout my career, I tried to challenge the status quo and it did work.” Leanne gave an example of someone she placed who was celebrating their 7th anniversary with the company who broke the mould of what a stereotypical recruiter looks like. Assessment Methods: How to Ensure You Hire the Right Person for Your Growing Recruitment Business What are some of the most effective assessment methods when hiring a good recruiter? Having a thorough hiring process can definitely help when increasing the success rate and retention of new recruiters. So based on experience, what are the best hiring processes that Leanne has seen when working in the recruitment space? Some of her top methods include:  Introduce a working interview/trial day as a stage in the hiring process Focus on assessing their skills, not just a subjective decision based on the way they come across Develop a structured training program Listen to the full interview to hear other takeaways, especially on mistakes and success factors when scaling your business and growing your team of recruiters. Leanne Sara Jones Hunt Bio and Contact Info Leanne Sara Jones Hunt is our Chief Operations Officer here at Recruitment Coach.  Prior to joining forces with Mark, Leanne worked in the recruitment-to-recruitment space in London for 10+ years and placed over 700 recruiters with some of the fastest-growing recruitment companies in the UK. She ran her own successful recruitment-to-recruitment business, Excell Jones, for 5 years which placed trainees/graduates into the recruitment arena.   Before starting her own business, Leanne rapidly progressed from graduate trainee all the way to director.  She has performed every role from office manager, resourcer, 360 recruiter and billing manager.  As a manager, she created extensive training manuals and developed multiple trainees from scratch who didn’t have any recruitment experience to become successful billing recruiters.   In addition to her role as COO, Leanne is also a Coach for our Inner Circle members, and is the resident ‘Queen of Automation’. She regularly shares the secrets on how she was able to claw back 30% of her time through implementing various automation processes, strategies and systems.  Leanne has successfully hired, trained and managed teams of virtual assistants. As well as holding the Inner Circle members accountable, and inspiring them to take action to implement strategies, Leanne is also able to share with our Inner Circle members how to hire and manage a remote team.  Leanne on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter  

Success in your recruitment business requires a lot of effort and commitment. If you’re being honest with yourself, are you working too hard for too little return? What if you can still be successful, and at the same time spend time on things that matter most? My special guest, John Schlegel, openly shared strategies that helped him be truly successful in his solo-practice while “having a life.”  From mindset, and utilizing contract recruiters, to building meaningful business relationships, you will hear valuable insights and best practices that may help you balance work with your personal life. John is the CEO and Founder of Stonebridge Search in Austin, Texas. He places professionals in the financial advisory services arena, for global and boutique consulting firms, PE firms, investment banks and accountancy firms. Episode Outline and Highlights [2:42] How can a solo practitioner bill $700k+ and still have a life? John shares 4 key factors. [9:00] With no investment banking background, how did John become a strategic advisor in the financial services arena?  [21:52] What made John decide to set up on his own? Hear the life changing events that led him to start his own recruiting practice under extremely challenging circumstances. [28:20] How joining the Pinnacle Society significantly impacted John’s business. [32:00] The mindset shift that leads to greater success. [34:40] Best practices for contract relationships and outsourcing (1099 arrangements). [46:20] With recruitment being really time consuming, how does John spend more time with his family? [51:02] Hear John’s two suggestions if you are working too hard to get things done. Going Solo and Getting the Right Balance How can a solo practitioner bill $700k+ and still have a life? John started his firm in 2009 and says it took a while to come up with the right mix and balance. Some of the successful strategies he put in place include: Focusing on these questions: How am I able to serve my clients better? What are my clients trying to accomplish?  Forging relationships with contract recruiters.  Transitioning to the position of a trusted advisor rather than a vendor. Can you relate to the above practices? In our conversation, John further discussed specific steps he took in applying the above strategies. Establishing Contract Recruiter Relationships One of the major contributors to John’s success as a solo practitioner is his relationships with contract-based specialists. The core idea behind this strategy is to compute your yearly revenue, convert it into an hourly rate, then delegate tasks that would cost less than your own hourly rate, and focus more time on those activities that enable you to earn more revenue.  This is how John puts it: “One of the things that I learned from Jordan Rayboy, who is a great friend of mine… He shared this on the episode he is on with you, where he talks about if you make X amount per year, and you extrapolate those hours out that you are gonna work, say $300 an hour, what are the activities that are $300 or less that you are spending your time on every day? And I thought, he is right, I am spending 60% of my time on things that are less meaningful than I should be.” Some of the practices he shared are employing seasoned specialists, utilizing 1099 arrangements, and splitting the fee. Listen to the interview with John for full details. If You Are Working Too Hard... So how do you get things done and spend more time on your personal well-being, family, and other meaningful non-business/work-related activities? I asked John what advice he can give to someone who is able to successfully attain his job targets but is working too hard. John shared two suggestions: Take inventory of how you are spending your time. Take inventory of your digital time.  Hear John’s experience on what made him focus only on tasks that are productive. John Schlegel Bio and Contact Info John Schlegel is the CEO and Founder of Stonebridge Search in Austin, TX.  He places senior professionals in the financial advisory services arena, with specific expertise in service areas such as Valuation & Opinions, Dispute Consulting, Forensic Services, Restructuring & Turnaround, and Transaction Advisory. His clients include accounting firms, global and boutique consulting firms, private equity firms, and investment banks.  In addition to John's search experience, he provides support for mergers and acquisitions within his specialty areas, both on the buy-side and sell-side. John is a member of the prestigious Pinnacle Society, the premier consortium of 80 of the leading recruiters in North America. Membership is based upon the stringent criteria of verifiable industry success, ethical standards, expertise and experience. John holds a B.A. in Public Relations from the Gaylord College of Journalism and Mass Communications at the University of Oklahoma. He lives in Austin with his wife and four children. John on LinkedIn Stonebridge Search website link People and Resources Mentioned Joe Rice on LinkedIn Jordan Rayboy on LinkedIn Pinnacle Society website link Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#55 How to Build (or Rebuild) Your Recruitment Firm to 7-Figures From Scratch, with Joe Rice TRR#46 How to Run a Million Dollar Recruiting Firm From Your RV, with Jordan Rayboy Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter  

As many parts of the economy open up again, recruiters are starting to see a surge in demand for talent.  But don’t make the mistake of thinking this is a return to “business as usual.” There are lessons to be learned from the pandemic, and important steps you must take to ensure you thrive in the coming hiring boom. If you go back to doing things exactly the same way you did before, we’ll miss out on the greatest opportunity in our lifetime to change some of the things we don’t like about recruitment. That’s according to my special guest, Greg Savage who is making a repeat appearance on The Resilient Recruiter. Greg is of the most respected voices across the global recruitment industry, hear his insights on the pandemic, leadership, and reconfiguring the way you do your business. With 40 years in recruitment, Greg is also the author of the Savage Truth which was published only about a year ago selling more than 10,000 copies - highlighting the loyal following he has built. If you have not been exposed to Greg’s no-nonsense approach to recruitment before, then you are in for a treat. Episode Outline and Highlights 3:00 Greg shares his perspective on the pandemic - who are those that dealt with it best?  13:06 The best lockdown marketing idea - “flipping the dynamics.” 22:44 Enduring lessons from the pandemic that recruiters must adopt as standard practice. 33:08 Are KPIs outdated? 38:30 What are the key characteristics and values that owners should be looking for in potential new hires recruiting now compared to what they looked for in the past? 47:25 Thoughts on reconfiguring the profile you look for when hiring rookie recruiters. 55:28 Greg revealed one very important element out of his 14 business pillars, “Leadership Style.” Some Exemplary Performances From Recruitment Businesses in the Pandemic When I launched this podcast in December 2019, I was very fortunate to have interviewed Greg in episode #1.  Following up with him after more than a year, I am really keen to hear his perspectives on dealing with this crisis.  In particular, I hoped he would be able to share examples of people or businesses rising to the occasion.  Greg has a unique vantage point as an advisor to and sitting on the board of, 14 different recruitment companies. How businesses reacted is comparable to the five stages of grief. Here are some key takeaways from him on how some businesses thrived during the pandemic: leadership behaviour played a key factor - those who reached the acceptance stage first were the most successful. understanding the concept of goodwill equity made a big difference. transparency, communication, becoming visible and valuable was really critical. Best to hear directly from Greg both best and bad examples on how some leaders behaved when the pandemic and lockdowns took place. What We Should Have Learned From the Pandemic What are the enduring lessons we should learn from the pandemic as an industry? This is how Greg put it: “Well let me start with a rather cynical, but unfortunately true comment… Owners of recruitment companies will come out of this situation, so relieved that they have survived, so grateful that the markets are peaking up, but they will go back, Mark, and do everything exactly the way they did it before.” This is where it gets more interesting, Greg continues: “Any second article you read on LinkedIn is about how the pandemic has changed recruitment. Absolute bullsh*t! It will not change it. But, the opportunity to reconfigure the way you do things, is HUGE. You can change, and I’ve got some great stories.”  Question from Our Listener Prior to recording this episode, I asked connections on LinkedIn for questions I should be putting in to ask Greg. A very interesting question came from Greg Benadiba, who is the CEO of Bilingual Source. Now that we are entering a phase of renewed growth in the industry and owners are going to be hiring again, “What are the key characteristics and values that owners should be looking for on potential new hires in recruiting now, and how is that different to candidates they’ve hired in the past?” Greg answered this question and very insightful pointers were shared. Here his response to our conversation. Greg Savage Bio and Contact Info After graduating with Honours in Psychology, Greg started his career in Executive Search in Australia, before he went on to manage the London office of the United Kingdom’s largest accounting recruiter for two years. In the early 1980s, he returned to Australia to run the Sydney office of Accountancy Placements (now the Hays Group), where he was invited to join the Board of Directors at age 27. Greg founded Recruitment Solutions in 1987, and rapidly built the start-up across Australia and New Zealand, culminating in eight offices, 200 staff, and annual sales of $60,000,000. Such was Recruitment Solutions’ success that, in July 1998, the company was successfully listed on the Australian Stock Exchange, with Greg at its helm as both Executive Director and COO. In April 2001, Greg joined Aquent as Asia-Pacific CEO. In 2005, he was promoted to Aquent International CEO and assumed responsibility for all Aquent businesses outside of North America, which then comprised over 25 offices across Europe, Asia, Australia and New Zealand. In 2010 Greg acquired the Permanent and Search business of Aquent in Europe, Asia and Australasia, via a management buy-out, and founded Firebrand Talent Search. He quickly created a global brand for this specialist Digital and Marketing recruiter, and successfully sold the business, in 7 countries, in January 2013. An active investor in recruitment businesses, Greg is a Founder and shareholder of people2people, one of Australia’s fastest growing recruitment companies, and also a Director and Chairman of New Zealand specialist Consult Recruitment. He also has involvement with many HR Tech related businesses including VideoMyJob  and JobAdder In recognition of his contribution to the Australian recruitment industry, Greg was made an Honorary Life Member of the Recruitment and Consulting Services Association (RCSA) in 2004. He was subsequently elevated to Fellow (FRCA). In addition, Greg was the inaugural winner of the highly prestigious RCSA “Outstanding Contribution to the Recruitment Industry” Award 2011. Recruitment Hall of Fame In April 2018 Greg was inducted into the Recruitment International ‘Hall of Fame’ for his contribution and services to the recruitment industry LinkedIn ‘Top Voices ‘2018. Greg was named one of only 342 out of 550 Million LinkedIn members named as top influencers and for sparking professional conversations globally. Greg’s website link Greg on LinkedIn Greg on Facebook Greg on Twitter @greg_savage Greg on Instagram Greg on Youtube People and Resources Mentioned Greg Benadiba on LinkedIn The Best Crisis Business Development Idea I Have Ever Seen by G. Savage 14 Agency Recruitment Metrics to Run Your Business by G. Savage Thrive Webcast link Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR #1 The Future of Recruitment: Strategies To Stay Relevant and Effective, with Greg Savage TRR #14 How to Demonstrate Leadership in a Crisis with Greg Benadiba Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter  

Are you a small to mid-sized recruiter who wants to beat the big boys and be recognized as a market leader? Or perhaps you’re super-ambitious and dream of expanding your recruitment business nationally or even globally? In either case, you’re in for a treat as I interview Eloise Sutton Kirkby.  Eloise is the Co-Founder and Director of Growth at Vincere, a market-leading all-in-one ATS CRM which is run by ex-recruiters. Vincere means “to win” or “conquer” in Latin, and they specialize in weaponizing recruiters through tech. Eloise believes that recruitment technology levels the playing field for scrappy underdogs to win against their bigger competitors.  In addition to her knowledge of recruitment technology and automation, Eloise shares her hard-won insights gleaned from scaling her company to 80 employees and offices in 5 countries. Episode Outline and Highlights [3:10] Eloise’s recruitment career takes her from Leeds to Tokyo; why she and her partner Bernie Schiemer started a software company. [8:20] Recruitment technology: what is a “Frankenstack”? [11:40] Which of your recruitment and business processes should be automated? [13:40] Eloise’s entrepreneurial journey and scaling her software company to 80 people. [18:18] Discussing the pros and cons of setting up an office offshore. [24:55] Business challenges that Eloise faced being headquartered in Vietnam. [31:31] Inbound marketing strategies and building a personal brand on LinkedIn. [45:17] Dealing with adversity: Eloise shares the toughest experience she’s ever faced.  What Processes Should Be Automated with Recruitment Technology? Being in the recruitment technology space, I asked Eloise if she can give an example of a workflow or part of the recruitment process that can be successfully automated. This is how she responded, “I think for mid-sized recruitment firms … the area of automation that is weak usually is between the front-middle-back office.” She further elaborated, “Around your pay and bill systems, collecting of time from your candidates. Often what we see is that placement is made in the CRM, pushed out to the pay and bill software, and never seen in the CRM again. So the consultants don’t know if timesheets have been submitted if they are paid on that timesheets coming in and that is kind of important and that is just one example of how data is being siloed between different teams in a mid-sized organization.” Inbound Marketing Strategies Eloise and her team focused really heavily on product development with the sincere belief that word-of-mouth will do the marketing for them. Eloise recalls, “What we have really woken up to is the fact that we don’t really need to spend a lot in marketing. We don’t want to have a massive sales team, that is not us. What we do want to do is to have our customers not see us as a vendor, to see us as a partner and as part of that partnership, they will be our marketers.” So what marketing strategies do they effectively employ? Some are as follows: Referral and reward system for their existing clients Content marketing via LinkedIn Hear our discussion and sharing of practices on how to strategically use LinkedIn and other social media platforms. Resilience in Adversity I also took the opportunity to ask Eloise on what would be the most challenging experience and how she faced the challenge. She shared a very moving personal story which I believe you will find interesting. Best to hear it from Eloise in this episode. Eloise Sutton Kirkby Bio and Contact Info Eloise is the Co-founder and Director of Growth for Vincere, an all-in-one platform for recruitment and staffing agencies worldwide. She started her career in recruitment as a consultant with Michael Page in the financial sector. She had experience working in Leeds, Tokyo, Singapore, and is now based in Saigon. Eloise is also the host of the Contract Recruiter Podcast which focuses on the world of Contract Recruitment. Eloise on LinkedIn Vincere website link Vincere on Youtube Contract Recruiter Podcast link People and Resources Mentioned Bernie Schiemer on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter  

Why do companies struggle to hire female executives? How can we, as recruiting professionals, help our clients to address the gender-gap particularly in C-suite level searches?  What steps can be taken toward a long-term solution? By sharing her own experience, my special guest Venesa Klein gives her take on how businesses and organizations can make a meaningful, long-term impact on the gender-gap at executive levels. Venesa is a partner at Calibre One, a leading executive search boutique with offices in San Francisco, London, New York, and Singapore. Based in LA, Venesa manages the Women Board Member Recruiting as well as Diversity Recruiting specializing in VP and C-level searches for consumer internet, e-commerce, CPG and category-defining tech companies. Episode Outline and Highlights [1:48] Why do companies struggle to hire female executives? [5:38] What is the long-term solution to close the gender gap into recruiting C-suite levels? [10:08] Are your clients serious about addressing the gender gap in your organization or just playing lip service? Venesa shared the signs to distinguish which is which. [21:00] Venesa shares her own experience in balancing motherhood with work during the pandemic. [30:34] Critical roles husbands play for their working partners. [34:00] How boundaries and flexibility in schedule contribute to actively working mothers. [38:00] What could companies do to get an edge in attracting women top talents?  [42:50] Venesa shares her experience in helping out build Google’s internal executive search function. [49:59] Hear our discussion on effective tools and recruitment technology. Addressing the Gender Gap: Small Steps for a Long-Term Strategy As businesses and companies focus on gender diversity, it can be a challenge to close the gender gap. The reason? Venesa said, “That is the important question, what is the strategy? What is the long game? I think that’s the piece that companies are missing, is it’s very reactionary to pressure from aboard, you know social media pressure...We need to think much bigger than that.” Although it can be difficult, Venesa laid out a few solutions as a starting point to address the challenge of closing the gender gap, especially in C-suite levels by creating pathways for women to progress within their respective organizations. Some of the pointers are as follows: Recruiting women early and often into entry-level roles and defining career paths for them. Providing mentorship opportunities. Moving them through the organization in a thoughtful and structured way. Venesa also added, “You have to have a strong HR function that is thinking this through with you.” A Roller-Coaster Ride One of the life-changing events that Venesa shared is her “jolting experience” of motherhood and how she was able to balance it with work. While everybody has a different experience, becoming a mom (especially during the pandemic) was a wake-up call for Venesa. This is how she describes it, “I know that when I became a mom, it had felt like it wasn’t talked about. I don’t know whether because I didn’t have children or I wasn’t just tuned in to the conversation or that the conversations just weren’t happening.”  Some of the challenges she relayed, on which some of our listeners may be able to strongly relate to are: From work being the priority and the ability to work all hours to having finite stop-start working hours and feeling exhausted. The challenge of focusing at work with so little sleep like it was survival mode. The challenge of spending as much time with children as possible while being an effective business partner. Have you had the same struggles when juggling work with motherhood?  Business Best Practices to Attain Female Top Talent What can give a business an edge in terms of employing female top talents? Based on Venesa’s experience, it really is important for a business to take care not only of their female employees but also their employees’ relationships with their children. Some of the best practices mentioned would be offering reimbursement for childcare or offering childcare onsite. Also, measuring success and accomplishment based on outcome rather than time spent is a significant factor to offer them flexibility. Venesa Klein Bio and Contact Info Venesa Klein is an executive talent recruiter and Partner at Calibre One, a leading transatlantic executive search boutique. Since 2007, Venesa has helped some of the world's most successful companies build out the critical leadership teams that drive their success.  Her robust network of C-Suite and VP-level executives make her a highly sought-after full-cycle recruiter across a portfolio of consumer internet, eCommerce, CPG, and category-defining technology companies. As a Partner at Calibre One, Venesa founded its Purpose-Driven Practice, which focuses on placing executives in growing organizations seeking to create innovation with meaningful impact. Her empathy-forward personality along with her strategic thinking has enabled her to work with Google, Thinx, Rev.com, Mixbook, among others, to identify and recruit essential leaders in operations, marketing, and human resources. Before joining Calibre One, Venesa was the Senior Recruiter at MarketTools a 500 person enterprise technology and services company where she was responsible for the recruiting function internationally. She was also a consultant at Google where she was responsible for building out their internal executive search function and was The Consumer Practice Leader at The Pacific Firm. Outside of work, Venesa is actively involved in various roles within a number of animal welfare, environmental, and educational charities. Her commitment to philanthropy and her two young children keep her quite busy.  She splits her time between Northern and Southern California. Venesa on LinkedIn Venesa’s website link Calibre One website link People and Resources Mentioned “So you want to hire a woman onto your C-Suite? Here’s why you won’t get one..” article link Helen McGuire on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR #57 Diversity as a Differentiator – How Recruiters Can Attract 70% More Diverse Talent, with Helen McGuire Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

While most recruitment companies revenue and profits were down during the Covid-19 crisis, Andersen James Group revenue grew by 35%.  In this interview, I asked Managing Director, James Leighton, how they achieved this remarkable result in an extremely challenging climate.  One of the key themes that emerged from our conversation was “client partnerships.”  For James, this isn’t an abstract concept -- it’s core to his business strategy.  Their new Strategic Partnerships business model was one of the key factors that enabled them to grow during the Covid-19 pandemic. This isn’t to say it was easy.  There were some significant challenges along the way.  As you are about to hear, Andersen James met these challenges by bringing a lot of innovation and creativity to recruitment within the property and construction sectors. If you like hearing about fresh ideas and different ways of partnering with clients, you are going to enjoy this episode. Episode Outline and Highlights [1:40] James shares his motivation and a bit of history of the Andersen James Group [5:05] How having an internal recruiter talent acquisition experience shaped James’ mindset on outsourced recruitment. [8:03] Strategic Partnership - how the Andersen James Group embraced the partnership approach during the covid crisis. [20:15] Discussion on recruitment metrics and tracking mechanisms. [23:32] Three key factors in growing profit by 35% during covid. [29:44] The difficulty of splitting from a business partner - James shared his experience. [35:22] Removing himself from billing and focusing on the business - what triggered James to take this decision and how it was a game-changer. [39:33] The benefits of hosting webinars for your market [51:01] How James’ group invested in marketing [53:30] What would you do if a client went bust on you? Learn from James’ experience. [1:00:00] Selecting a good business partner. Experience From Both Sides of the Fence Prior to becoming a recruitment business owner, James had experience in internal recruitment talent acquisition. This valuable experience gave him an insight into how recruiters are perceived, what they do best for their clients, and what could be further improved from a client’s point of view.  Hear out what he thinks that recruiters should understand in working with clients and how to ultimately make the working relationship better. Embracing the Partnership Approach During the pandemic, James’ business was able to sustain significant growth by investing heavily in technology and innovation. One of these innovations was adapting an approach based on partnership. Going for a partnership approach with your clients can be challenging but this was not the case for James’ company. They have adapted a Strategic Partnership model that gives their client a different way of recruiting. If explained briefly, this is how their business model works: Outsourced recruitment function with a monthly retainer fee Dedicated heads provided for their client - with a profit margin per head Offering efficiency of cost for the client by providing them an internal recruitment team  Internal feel of a recruitment team with an external presence in the market How does the program work for their clients and their company? What inspired the idea? Listen to the answers from James in this episode. Growing the Profit by 35% During Covid While most recruitment companies are losing around 40% in profit during the pandemic, it was the opposite for Andersen James as they actually grew their profit by 35%! What are the key factors that contributed to this success? James mentioned at least three, which is heavily investing on: Extensive training for employees Technology - e.g. CRM system Marketing Sharing Best Practices During Covid Last year, James did a series of webinars with two main intentions - to create case studies and share best practices with their market. Why did he do it? Rather than just write a case study, they created events to share how they’ve solved certain problems and show the market exactly what it is that they’ve done.  James explains the success of this education-based marketing strategy: “there were 900 people to the first one, 500 people to the previous one, and it was really targeted.” James Leighton Bio and Contact Info James Leighton is a Managing Director of Andersen James Group. Andersen James was born out of a desire to bring innovation and creativity to recruitment within the property and construction sector.  Their passion lies in offering added value to their customers. They offer best practice advice and support in the design and implementation of market leading recruitment campaigns and programmes that will not only attract and recruit the best talent but also retain and re-energise existing teams. With the launch of the new Strategic partnerships business when Covid struck, growing that to 3 big contract wins, re-aligning our sales vision and further niching their business into a Housing Specialist across the UK, they have set up really well with the right platform and infrastructure to scale up their business James on LinkedIn Andersen James Group website link Andersen James Group on LinkedIn People and Resources Mentioned Kevin Redman on LinkedIn Greg Savage on LinkedIn Joel Slenning on LinkedIn Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap and Others Don't by Jim Collins Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR #41 Dare to Be Different – How to Create Your Unique Value Proposition, with Kevin Redman and Matt Halfpenny TRR #53 How to Scale Your Staffing & Recruiting Firm to $16,000,000, With Joel Slenning Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter