

This Week In Digital Trust
elevenM
Regular conversations about tech policy, privacy, cyber security, AI safety and everything in between.
This Week In Digital Trust is hosted by Arjun Ramachandran and Jordan Wilson-Otto, self-described technology enthusiasts with a passion for ensuring the use of technology leads to the best outcomes for humanity.
Arjun and Jordan are Principals at elevenM, a specialist AI, privacy, cyber security and data governance consultancy in Australia. Arjun is a strategic communications expert and former journalist. Jordan is an expert in privacy regulation, policy development and program management.
This Week In Digital Trust is hosted by Arjun Ramachandran and Jordan Wilson-Otto, self-described technology enthusiasts with a passion for ensuring the use of technology leads to the best outcomes for humanity.
Arjun and Jordan are Principals at elevenM, a specialist AI, privacy, cyber security and data governance consultancy in Australia. Arjun is a strategic communications expert and former journalist. Jordan is an expert in privacy regulation, policy development and program management.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Aug 4, 2022 • 27min
#26 Arrival at the promised land or a deal with the devil? Federal privacy law lands in the US
This week, Arj and Jordan discuss the merits of the proposed new federal privacy law in the US. Also this week - a new once-in-a-decade report from CSIRO also lays out seven megatrends to shape our future, three of which fall squarely into the realm of technology, digital policy and other favourite topics of the podcast.
Links:
IAPP coverage of American Data Privacy and Protection Act https://iapp.org/news/a/american-data-privacy-and-protection-act-heads-for-us-house-floor/
Daniel Solove opinion on federal privacy law: https://teachprivacy.com/a-faustian-bargain-is-preemption-too-high-a-price-for-a-federal-privacy-law/
Woodrow Hartzog and Neil Richards on a duty of loyalty: https://iapp.org/news/a/were-so-close-to-getting-data-loyalty-right/
Algorithm Watch on algorithmic bias in Google and Facebook ads: https://algorithmwatch.org/en/automated-discrimination-facebook-google/
CSIRO report "Our Future World": https://www.csiro.au/en/research/technology-space/data/Our-Future-World
Credits:
Music by Bensound.com

Aug 1, 2022 • 23min
#25 When Big Tech feels the squeeze
This week, Arj and Jordan look how China is using various levers to pressure Big Tech into compliance with national goals. They also look at how Meta platforms such as facebook have an impact on a range of human rights, after the US giant published a self-assessment.
Links:
Meta’s First Annual Human Rights Report https://about.fb.com/news/2022/07/first-annual-human-rights-report/
Platformer analysis of Meta's report (paywalled): https://www.platformer.news/p/meta-measures-its-human-rights-impact?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
Influence Empire by Lulu Chen (Guardian extract): https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jul/24/we-show-hotshots-whos-boss-how-china-disciplines-its-tech-barons
Washington Post article on China's big tech crackdown: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/05/05/china-jack-ma-arrest-alibaba/
Credits:
Music by Bensound.com

Jul 25, 2022 • 28min
#24 The problem with random acts of kindness on TikTok
The pod is back after being struck down by illness. With their return, Arj and Jordan take on virality of a different kind: videos showing "random acts of kindness" on social media platform TikTok. They dive into why the videos are problematic from a privacy perspective.
While on TikTok, they also explore growing concern about the privacy protections surrounding TikTok user data, and what access the Chinese government may have.
Links:
OAIC opens investigations into Bunnings and Kmart https://www.oaic.gov.au/updates/news-and-media/oaic-opens-investigations-into-bunnings-and-kmart
ABC article about Melbourne woman filmed without consent https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-14/tiktok-video-maree-melbourne-flowers/101228418
BuzzFeed story about US TikTok user data accessed in China https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/tiktok-tapes-us-user-data-china-bytedance-access
ABC News story about Australian TikTok user data potentially accessed in China https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-13/tiktok-admits-australian-data-accessible-in-china/101233320
SBS: "So what if China can access your TikTok data?" https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/so-what-if-china-can-access-your-tiktok-data/mr1anx97k
Credits:
Music by Bensound.com

Jul 13, 2022 • 23min
#23 Breaking down Twitter's stoush with India, and the secret sauce of scams
This week, Arj and Jordan dive into the growing challenge faced by social media platforms in India, as the Modi government institutes more aggressive approaches to content removal.
Also this week is a look at how scams are being carried out, as new data reveals Australians lost $2 billion to scams in 2021.
Links:
Reuters article about Twitter legal challenge against Indian govenrment https://www.reuters.com/world/india/twitter-pursues-judicial-review-indian-content-takedown-orders-source-2022-07-05/
Casey Newton analysis of Twitter/India stoush on Platformer (paywalled): https://www.platformer.news/p/twitter-sues-india
Twitter transparency reports on information requests and removal requests originating from India https://transparency.twitter.com/en/reports/countries/in.html
ACCC Targeting Scams report https://www.accc.gov.au/publications/targeting-scams-report-on-scam-activity/targeting-scams-report-of-the-accc-on-scams-activity-2021
Credits:
Music by Bensound.com

Jul 5, 2022 • 28min
#22 A glimmer of hope or a return to bad ideas? The latest on privacy reform
This week, Arj and Jordan get excited about Attorney General Mark Dreyfus' commitment to act on privacy reform within the first term of the recently elected Labor Government, but are given pause by his framing of the issues in terms of individual control and choice. They also re-cap the key reforms being contemplated.
Also up for discussion this week is an assessment of how well placed the Home Affairs department is to govern the recent critical infrastructure security reforms the government has brought in, on the back of a report by the Australian National Audit Office.
Links:
Transcript of Attorney General interview on ABC Radio National – Law Report https://ministers.ag.gov.au/media-centre/transcripts/abc-radio-national-law-report-28-06-2022
AFR on privacy reforms https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/dreyfus-pledges-sweeping-data-privacy-reforms-20220627-p5awvw
elevenM blog series on privacy reform https://elevenm.com/2021/02/04/privacy-in-focus-a-new-beginning/
elevenM’s submission to the Privacy Act Review https://elevenm.com/2022/02/20/elevenms-submission-to-the-privacy-act-review/
Australian National Audit Office report into Home Affairs' administration of critical infrastructure protection policy https://www.anao.gov.au/work/performance-audit/administration-critical-infrastructure-protection-policy
Critical infrastructure reforms https://www.cisc.gov.au/legislative-information-and-reforms/critical-infrastructure
Credits:
Music by Bensound.com

Jun 28, 2022 • 21min
#21 The lowdown on facial recognition (part II) - how bad is it, really?
*** An apology ***
We had some serious audio issues with this episode, due to Arj being in a different environment than usual for the recording of this episode. We've tried to fix it as best we can in editing, but there will be some parts that are hard to hear. Sorry!
On this week's show, Arj and Jordan have something of a debate over whether the uproar over facial recognition is really justified, and whether it might be a palatable solution if it improves in reliability and accuracy.
Links:
News story about Adelaide City Council use of facial recognition https://www.itnews.com.au/news/sa-police-ignore-adelaide-council-plea-for-facial-recognition-ban-on-cctv-581559
News story about Microsoft limiting facial recognition uses https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jun/22/microsoft-limits-access-to-facial-recognition-tool-in-ai-ethics-overhaul
EFA Complaint https://www.efa.org.au/2022/06/22/efa-complains-to-oaic-about-retailers-use-of-facial-surveillance/
CHOICE report https://www.choice.com.au/consumers-and-data/data-collection-and-use/how-your-data-is-used/articles/kmart-bunnings-and-the-good-guys-using-facial-recognition-technology-in-store
Credits:
Music by Bensound.com

Jun 22, 2022 • 33min
#20 The lowdown on facial recognition (part I) and how to talk with robots that have feelings
This week, Arj and Jordan dive deep into facial recognition and how we should regulate it, after a week of strong community reaction against revelations about the use of the tech by Aussie retailers. Arj and Jordan also give their take on the other burning question of the last week - "is AI sentient?"
Links:
CHOICE report https://www.choice.com.au/consumers-and-data/data-collection-and-use/how-your-data-is-used/articles/kmart-bunnings-and-the-good-guys-using-facial-recognition-technology-in-store
OAIC statement on facial recognition https://www.oaic.gov.au/updates/news-and-media/retailers-must-ensure-compliance-with-privacy-laws
ABC story about call for national guidelines https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-16/nsw-facial-recognition-technology-wild-west-kmart-good-guys/101156010
Blake Lemoine in conversation with LaMDA https://cajundiscordian.medium.com/is-lamda-sentient-an-interview-ea64d916d917
Washington Post original reporting on LaMDA https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/06/11/google-ai-lamda-blake-lemoine/
Timnit Gebru on the risks of AI https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/06/17/google-ai-ethics-sentient-lemoine-warning/
Credits:
Music by Bensound.com

Jun 14, 2022 • 39min
#19 Safeguarding our history and national identity, and the fight for anonymity
What's an archivist do and how do we think about their role in the context of digitisation and other technology trends? This week Arj and Jordan are joined by archivist and fellow elevenM-er Cassie Findlay to discuss these questions, as the national broadcaster announces a major cut in archivists jobs.
They also look at the implications for online anonymity after a Federal court ruling requiring Twitter to hand over the personal information of the PRGuy17 Twitter account as part of a defamation lawsuit.
Links and notes:
About Cassie Findlay: Cassie is a member of the Australian Society of Archivists' Advocacy Committee. Twitter: @CassPF
ABC statement: https://about.abc.net.au/statements/abc-archives-proposal-for-change/
Australian Society of Archivists and the Australian Library and Information Association statement: https://www.archivists.org.au/about-us/statements/joint-statement-on-abc-staffing-cuts
Guardian article about Federal Court order re: PRGuy17: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jun/07/twitter-ordered-to-hand-over-prguy17s-personal-information-as-part-of-defamation-suit

Jun 8, 2022 • 35min
#18 Slicing up the sausage of tech policy and regulation - what goes into it and how it ought to be made in the future
This week, Arj and Jordan take a look at many influences on privacy laws (some more hidden than others) just as the US introduces a draft federal privacy bill. They also discuss a compelling report laying out a vision for how the tech ecosystem should be regulated.
The show kicks off with a quick run through of ministerial appointments and announcements by the new Labor government in Australia, and the potential implications for tech policy.
Links:
New Government cabinet https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-01/who-is-new-labor-government-ministry-cabinet/101113496
The Markup report https://themarkup.org/privacy/2022/05/26/tech-industry-groups-are-watering-down-attempts-at-privacy-regulation-one-state-at-a-time
Tending the Tech-Ecosystem https://www.anu.edu.au/files/guidance/TPDC_Report_NO1_2022_digital_release.pdf

May 31, 2022 • 29min
#17 Tech policy under a newly elected government and why childrens privacy needs more attention
This week, Arj and Jordan discuss the implications for tech, privacy and cyber policy resulting from the election of a Labor Government (and a large crossbench of Greens and independents) in Australia. They also explore why children's privacy deserves greater focus from privacy regulators, as a new report shines a light on the privacy harms of EdTech.
Links:
Australian Federal Election 2022 Live Results https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/federal/2022/results?filter=all&sort=az&state=all
Privacy Act Review https://www.ag.gov.au/integrity/consultations/review-privacy-act-1988
Digital platforms inquiry https://www.accc.gov.au/focus-areas/inquiries-finalised/digital-platforms-inquiry-0
Robodebt Royal Commission https://www.alp.org.au/policies/robodebt-royal-commission
ABC report on EdTech https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-25/investigation-reveals-educational-tech-tracking-children-data/101091808
Human Rights Watch report https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/05/25/governments-harm-childrens-rights-online-learning#:~:text=EdTech%20Exposed%20is%20an%20independent,during%20the%20Covid%2D19%20pandemic.
FTC policy statement on children's privacy https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2022/05/ftc-crack-down-companies-illegally-surveil-children-learning-online
Unicef report on children's data governance https://www.unicef.org/globalinsight/stories/data-governance-children-emerging-priority-area-privacy-professionals