The Safety of Work
David Provan
Do you know the science behind what works and doesn’t work when it comes to keeping people safe in your organisation? Each week join Dr Drew Rae and Dr David Provan from the Safety Science Innovation Lab at Griffith University as they break down the latest safety research and provide you with practical management tips.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Mar 13, 2022 • 52min
Ep.92 How do different career paths affect the roles and training needs of safety practitioners?
The paper results center on a survey sent to a multitude of French industries, and although the sampling is from only one country, 15 years ago, the findings are very illustrative of common issues among safety professionals within their organizations. David used this paper as a reference for his PhD thesis, and we are going to dig into each section to discuss. The paper’s abstract introduction reads: What are the training needs of company preventionists? An apparently straightforward question, but one that will very quickly run into a number of difficulties. The first involves the extreme variability of situations and functions concealed behind the term preventionist and which stretch way beyond the term’s polysemous nature. Moreover, analysis of the literature reveals that very few research papers have endeavoured to analyse the activities associated with prevention practices, especially those of preventionists. This is a fact, even though prevention-related issues and preventionist responsibilities are becoming increasingly important. Discussion Points:The paper, reported from French industries, focuses heavily on safety in areas like occupational therapies, ergonomics, pesticides, hygiene, etc.The downside of any “survey” result is that we can only capture what the respondents “say” or self-report about their experiencesMost of the survey participants were not originally trained as safety professionalsThere are three subgroups within the survey:High school grads with little safety trainingPost high school with two-year tech training program paths to safety workUniversity-educated levels including engineers and managersThere were six main positions isolated within this study:Prevention Specialists - hold a degree in safety, high status in safety managementField Preventionists - lesser status, operations level, closer to front linesPrevention Managers - executive status, senior management, engineers/project managersPreventionist Proxies - may be establishing safety programs, in opposition to the organization, chaotic positionsBasic Coordinators - mainly focused on training othersUnstructured - no established safety procedures, may have been thrown into this roleSo many of the respondents felt isolated and frustrated within the organizations– which continues to be true in the safety professionThere is evidence in this paper and others that a large portion of safety professionals “hate their bosses” and feel ‘great distress’ in their positionsOnly 2.5% felt comfortable negotiating safety with managementTakeaways:Safety professionals come from widely diverse backgroundsTraining and education are imperativeThese are complex jobs that often are not on siteRole clarity is very low, leading to frustration and job dissatisfactionSend us your suggestions for future episodes, we are actively looking! Quotes:“I think this study was quite a coordinated effort across the French industry that involved a lot of different professional associations.” - David“It might be interesting for our readers/listeners to sort of think about which of these six groups do you fit into and how well do you reckon that is a description of what you do.” - Drew“I thought it was worth highlighting just how much these different [job] categories are determined by the organization, not by the background or skill of the safety practitioner.” - Drew“[I read a paper that stated:] There is a significant proportion of safety professionals that hate their bosses …and it was one of the top five professions that hate their bosses and managers.” - David“You don’t have to go too far in the safety profession to find frustrated professionals.” - David“There’s a lot to think on and reflect on…it’s one sample in one country 15 years ago, but these are useful reflections as we get to the practical takeaways.” - David “The activity that I like safety professionals to do is to think about the really important parts of their role that add the most value to the safety of work, and then go and ask questions of their stakeholders of what they think are the most valuable parts of the role, …and work toward alignment.” - David“Getting that role clarity makes you feel that you’re doing better in your job.” - Drew Resources:Link to the Safety Science ArticleThe Safety of Work PodcastThe Safety of Work on LinkedInFeedback@safetyofwork.com

Feb 27, 2022 • 49min
Ep.91 How can we tell when safety research is C.R.A.A.P?
We will go through each letter of the amusing and memorable acronym and give you our thoughts on ways to make sure each point is addressed, and different methodologies to consider when verifying or assuring that each element has been satisfied before you cite the source.Sarah Blakeslee writes (about her CRAAP guidelines): Sometimes a person needs an acronym that sticks. Take CRAAP for instance. CRAAP is an acronym that most students don’t expect a librarian to be using, let alone using to lead a class. Little do they know that librarians can be crude and/or rude, and do almost anything in order to penetrate their students’ deep memories and satisfy their instructional objectives. So what is CRAAP and how does it relate to libraries? Here begins a long story about a short acronym… Discussion Points:The CRAAP guidelines were so named to make them memorableThe five CRAAP areas to consider when using sources for your work are:Currency- timeliness, how old is too old?Relevance- who is the audience, does the info answer your questionsAuthority- have you googled the author? What does that search show you?Accuracy- is it verifiable, supported by evidence, free of emotion?Purpose- is the point of view objective? Or does it seem colored by political, religious, or cultural biases?Takeaways:You cannot fully evaluate a source without looking AT the sourceBe cautious about second-hand sources– is it the original article, or a press release about the article?Be cautious of broad categories, there are plenty of peer-reviewed, well-known university articles that aren’t credibleTo answer our title question, use the CRAAP guidelines as a basic guide to evaluating your sources, it is a useful toolSend us your suggestions for future episodes, we are actively looking! Quotes:“The first thing I found out is there’s pretty good evidence that teaching students using the [CRAAP] guidelines doesn’t work.” - Dr. Drew“It turns out that even with the [CRAAP] guidelines right in front of them, students make some pretty glaring mistakes when it comes to evaluating sources.” - Dr. Drew“Until I was in my mid-twenties, I never swore at all.” - Dr. Drew“When you’re talking about what someone else said [in your paper], go read what that person said, no matter how old it is.” - Dr. Drew“The thing to look out for in qualitative research is, how much are the participants being led by the researchers.” - Dr. Drew“So what I really want to know when I’m reading a qualitative study is not what the participant answered. I want to know what the question was in the first place.” - Dr. Drew Resources:Link to the CRAAP TestThe Safety of Work PodcastThe Safety of Work on LinkedInFeedback@safetyofwork.com

Feb 13, 2022 • 48min
Ep.90 Does formal safety management displace operational knowledge?
An excerpt from the paper’s abstract reads as follows: The proposition is based on theory about relationships between knowledge and power, complemented by organizational theory on standardization and accountability. We suggest that the increased reliance on self-regulation and international standards in safety management may be drivers for a shift in the distribution of power regarding safety, changing the conception of what is valid and useful knowledge. Case studies from two Norwegian transport sectors, the railway and the maritime sectors, are used to illustrate the proposition. In both sectors, we observe discourses based on generic approaches to safety management and an accompanying disempowerment of the practitioners and their perspectives. Join us as we delve into the paper and endeavor to answer the question it poses.We will discuss these highlights: Safety science may contribute to the marginalization of practical knowledgeHow “paper trails” and specialists marginalize and devalue experience-based knowledgeAn applied science needs to understand the effects it causes, also from a power-perspectiveSafety Science should reflect on how our results interact with existing system-specific knowledgeExamples from their case studies in maritime transport and railways Discussion Points:David has been traveling in the U.S. for much of January seeing colleaguesThis is one of David’s favorite papersDiscussion of the paper’s authors being academics, not scientistsHow does an organization create “good safety” and what does that look like?The rise of homogenous international standards of safetyCan safety professionals transfer their knowledge and work in other industriesThe two case studies in this paper: Norwegian railway and maritime systems/industriesThe separation between top-down system safety and local, front-line practitionersOur key takeaways from this paperSend us your suggestions for future episodes, we are actively looking! Quotes:“If you understand safety, then it really shouldn’t matter which industry you’re applying it on.” - Dr. Drew Rae“I can’t imagine, as a safety professional, how you’re impactful in the first 12 months [on a new job] until you actually understand what it is you’re trying to influence.” - Dr. David Provan“It feels to me this is what happened here, that they formed this view of what was going on and then actually traced back through their data to try to make sense of it.” - Dr. David Provan“I have to say I think they genuinely use these case studies to really effectively illustrate and support the argument that they’re making.” - Dr. Drew Rae“Once we start thinking too hard about a function, we start formalizing it and once we start formalizing it, it starts to become detached from operations and sort of flows from that operational side into the management side.” - Dr. Drew Rae“I don’t think it's being driven by the academics at all and clearly it’s in the sociology of the profession's literature all the way back to the 1950s and 60s.” - Dr. David Provan“We’re fighting amongst ourselves as a non-working community about whose [safety] model should be the one to then impose on the genuine front line practitioners.” - Dr. Drew Rae Resources:Link to Paper in JSSThe Safety of Work PodcastThe Safety of Work on LinkedInFeedback@safetyofwork.com

Jan 30, 2022 • 59min
Ep.89 When is the process more important than the outcome?
Wastell, who has a BSc and Ph.D. from Durham University, is Emeritus Professor in Operations Management and Information Systems at Nottingham University in the UK. Professor Wastell began his academic career as a cognitive neuroscientist at Durham, studying the relationships between brain activity and psychological processes. His areas of expertise include neuroscience and social policy: critical perspectives; psychophysiological design of complex human-machine systems; Information systems and public sector reform; design and innovation in the public services; management as design; and human factors design of safe systems in child protection.Join us as we delve into the statement (summarized so eloquently in Wastell’s well-crafted abstract): “Methodology, whilst masquerading as the epitome of rationality, may thus operate as an irrational ritual, the enactment of which provides designers with a feeling of security and efficiency at the expense of real engagement with the task at hand.” Discussion Points:How and when Dr. Rae became aware of this paperWhy this paper has many structural similarities to our paper, ”Safety work versus the safety of work” published in 2019Organizations’ reliance on top-heavy processes and rituals such as Gantt charts, milestones, gateways, checklists, etcThoughts and reaction to Section I: A Cautionary TaleSection II: Methodology: The Lionization of TechniqueSection III: Methodology as a Social DefenseThe three elements of social defense against anxiety:Basic assumption (fight or flight)Covert coalition (internal organization protection/family/mafia)Organizational ritual (the focus of this paper)Section IV: The Psychodynamics of Learning: Teddy Bears and Transitional ObjectsPaul Feyerabend and his “Against Method” bookOur key takeaways from this paper and our discussion Quotes:“Methodology may not actually drive outcomes.” - David Provan“A methodology can probably never give us, repeatably, exactly what we’re after.” - David Provan“We have this proliferation of solutions, but the mere fact that we have so many solutions to that problem suggests that none of the individual solutions actually solve it.” - Drew Rae“Wastell calls out this large lack of empirical evidence around the structured methods that organizations use, and concludes that they seem to have more qualities of ‘religious convictions’ than scientific truths.” - David Provan“I love the fact that he calls out the ‘journey’ metaphor, which we use all the time in safety.” - Drew Rae“You can have transitional objects that don’t serve any of the purposes that they are leading you to.” - Drew Rae“Turn up to seminars, and just read papers, that are totally outside of your own field.” - Drew Rae Resources:Wastell’s Paper: The Fetish of TechniquePaul Feyerabend (1924-1994)Book: Against Method by Paul FeyerabendOur Paper Safety Work vs. The Safety of WorkThe Safety of Work PodcastThe Safety of Work on LinkedInFeedback@safetyofwork.com

Jan 16, 2022 • 52min
Ep.88 Why do organisations sometimes make bad decisions?
While this paper was written over half a century ago, it is still relevant to us today - particularly in the Safety management industry where we are often responsible for offering solutions to problems, and implementing those solutions, requires decisions to be made by top management. This is another fascinating piece of work that will broaden your understanding of why organisations often struggle with solving problems that involve making decisions. Topics:Introduction to the research paper: A Garbage Can Model of Organisational ChoiceOrganised anarchies Phenomena explained by this paperExamples of the garbage can modelsStandards CommitteesEnforceable undertakings processHow to influence the processDeciding on who makes decisionsConclusion - most problems will get solvedPractical takeawaysNot to get discouraged when your problem isn’t solved in a particular meetingBeing mindful of where your decision-making energy is spentProblems vs Solutions vs Decision-making Have multiple solutions ready for problems that may come up - but don’t force them all the time. Quotes:“Decisions aren’t made inside people’s heads, decisions are made in meetings, so we’ve got to understand the interplay between people in looking at how decisions are made.” - Dr. Drew Rae“Incident investigations are a great example of choice opportunities.” - Dr. Drew Rae“It’s probably a good reflection point for people to just think about how many decisions certain roles in the organization are being asked to be involved in.” - Dr. David Provan Resources:Griffith University Safety Science Innovation LabThe Safety of Work PodcastThe Safety of Work LinkedInFeedback@safetyofwork.comA Garbage Can Model of Organizational Choice (Wikipedia Page)Administrative Science Quarterly

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Jan 2, 2022 • 56min
Ep.87 What exactly is Systems Thinking?
We will review each section of Leveson’s paper and discuss how she sets each section up by stating a general assumption and then proceeds to break that assumption down.We will discuss her analysis of:Safety vs. ReliabilityRetrospective vs. Prospective AnalysisThree Levels of Accident Causes:Proximal event chainConditions that allowed the eventSystemic factors that contributed to both the conditions and the event Discussion Points:Unlike some others, Leveson makes her work openly available on her websiteLeveson’s books, SafeWare: System Safety and Computers (1995) and Engineering a Safer World: Systems Thinking Applied to Safety (2011)Drew describes Leveson as a “prickly character” and once worked for her, and was eventually fired by herLeveson came to engineering with a psychology backgroundMany safety professionals express concern regarding how major accidents keep happening and bemoaning - ‘why we can’t learn enough to prevent them?’The first section of Leveson’s paper: Safety vs. Reliability - sometimes these concepts are at odds, sometimes they are the same thingHow cybernetics used to be ‘the thing’ but the theory of simple feedback loops fell apartSumming up this section: safety is not the sum of reliability componentsThe second section of the paper: Retrospective vs. Prospective Accident AnalysisMost safety experts rely on and agree that retrospective accident analysis is still the best way to learnExample - where technology changes slowly, ie airplanes, it’s acceptable to run a two-year investigation into accident causesExample - where technology changes quickly, ie the 1999 Mars Climate Orbiter crash vs. Polar Lander crash, there is no way to use retrospective analysis to change the next iteration in timeThe third section of the paper: Three Levels of AnalysisIts easiest to find the causes that led to the proximal event chain and the conditions that allowed the event, but identifying the systemic factors is more difficult because it’s not as easy to draw a causal link, it’s too indirectThe “5 Whys” method to analyzing an event or failurePractical takeaways from Leveson’s paper–STAMP (System-Theoretic Accident Model and Processes) using the accident causality model based on systems theoryInvestigations should focus on fixing the part of the system that changes slowestThe exact front line events of the accident often don’t matter that much in improving safetyClosing question: “What exactly is systems thinking?” It is the adoption of the Rasmussian causation model– that accidents arise from a change in risk over time, and analyzing what causes that change in risk Quotes:“Leveson says, ‘If we can get it right some of the time, why can’t we get it right all of the time?’” - Dr. David Provan“Leveson says, ‘the more complex your system gets, that sort of local autonomy becomes dangerous because the accidents don’t happen at that local level.’” - Dr. Drew Rae“In linear systems, if you try to model things as chains of events, you just end up in circles.’” - Dr. Drew Rae“‘Never buy the first model of a new series [of new cars], wait for the subsequent models where the engineers had a chance to iron out all the bugs of that first model!” - Dr. David Provan“Leveson says the reason systemic factors don’t show up in accident reports is just because its so hard to draw a causal link.’” - Dr. Drew Rae“A lot of what Leveson is doing is drawing on a deep well of cybernetics theory.” - Dr. Drew Rae Resources:Applying Systems Thinking Paper by LevesonNancy Leveson– Full List of PublicationsNancy Leveson of MITThe Safety of Work PodcastThe Safety of Work on LinkedInFeedback@safetyofwork.com

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Dec 19, 2021 • 1h
Ep.86 Do we have adequate models of accident causation?
We will discuss how other safety science researchers have designed theories that use Rasmussen’s concepts, the major takeaways from Rasmussen’s article, and how safety professionals can use these theories to analyze and improve systems in their own organizations today. Discussion Points:Rasmussen’s history of influence, and the parallels to (Paul) Erdős numbers in research paper publishingHow Rasmussen is the “grandfather” of safety scienceRasmussen’s impact across disciplines and organizational categories through the yearsThe basics of this paperWhy risk management models must never be staticHow other theorists and scientists take Rasmussen’s concepts and translate them into their own models and diagramsThe paper’s summary of the evolution of theoretical approaches up until ‘now’ (1997)Why accident models must use a holistic approach including technology AND peopleHow organizations are always going to have pressures of resources vs. required resultsEmployees vs. Management– both push for results with minimal acceptable effort, creating accident riskRasmussen identified we need different models that reflect the real worldTakeaways for our listeners from Rasmussen’s work Quotes:“That’s the forever challenge in safety, is people have great ideas, but what do you do with them? Eventually, you’ve got to turn it into a method.” - Drew Rae“These accidental events are shaped by the activity of people. Safety, therefore, depends on the control of people’s work processes.” - David Provan“There’s always going to be this natural migration of activity towards the boundaries of acceptable performance.” - David Provan“This is like the most honest look at work I think I’ve seen in any safety paper.” - Drew Rae“If you’re a safety professional, just how much time are you spending understanding all of these ins and outs and nuances of work, and people’s experience of work? …You actually need to find out from the insiders inside the system. ” - David Provan“‘You can’t just keep swatting at mosquitos, you actually have to drain the swamp.’ I think that’s the overarching conceptual framework that Rasmussen wanted us to have.” - David Provan Resources:Compute your Erdos NumberJens Rasmussen’s 1997 PaperDavid Woods LinkedInSidney Dekker WebsiteNancy Leveson of MITBlack Line/Blue Line ModelThe Safety of Work PodcastThe Safety of Work on LinkedInFeedback@safetyofwork.com

Nov 28, 2021 • 55min
Ep.85 Why does safety get harder as systems get safer?
Find out our thoughts on this paper and our key takeaways for the ever-changing world of workplace safety. Topics:Introduction to the paper & the Author“Adding more rules is not going to make your system safer.”The principles of safety in the paperTypes of safety systems as broken down by the paperProblems in these “Ultrasafe systems”The Summary of developments of human errorThe psychology of making mistakesThe Efficiency trade-off element in safetySuggestions in Amalberti’s conclusionTakeaway messagesAnswering the question: Why does safety get harder as systems get safer? Quotes:“Systems are good - but they are bad because humans make mistakes” - Dr. Drew Rae“He doesn’t believe that zero is the optimal number of human errors” - Dr. Drew Rae“You can’t look at mistakes in isolation of the context” - Dr. Drew Rae“The context and the system drive the behavior. - Dr. David Provan“It’s part of the human condition to accept mistakes. It is actually an important part of the way we learn and develop our understanding of things. - Dr. David Provan Resources:Griffith University Safety Science Innovation LabThe Safety of Work PodcastThe Safety of Work LinkedInFeedback@safetyofwork.comThe Paradoxes of Almost Totally Safe Transportation Systems by R. AmalbertiRisk Management in a Dynamic society: a Modeling problem - Jens RasmussenThe ETTO Principle: Efficiency-Thoroughness Trade-Off: Why Things That Go Right Sometimes Go Wrong - Book by Erik HollnagelEp.81 How does simulation training develop Safety II capabilities?Navigating safety: Necessary Compromises and Trade-Offs - Theory and Practice - Book by R. Amalberti

Oct 31, 2021 • 44min
Ep.84 How do orgasnisations balance reliable performance and spontaneous innovation?
This paper by Daniel Katz was published in 1964 and, scarily still has some very relevant takeaways for today’s safety procedures in organisations. We delve into this research and discover the ideas that Katz initiated all those years ago. The problem is that an organization cannot promote one of these concepts without negatively affecting the other. So how are organizations meant to manage this? We share some personal thoughts on whether or not the world of safety research has since found an answer to dealing with these two contradictory concepts. Topics:Introduction to the paperIntroduction to the Author Daniel KatzThe history of the safety research industryThree basic behaviors required from employees in all organizationsPeople’s willingness to stay in an organizationManaging dependable role performanceSpontanious initiativeFavourable attitudeCreating this motivation in employees to follow rulesCultivating innovative behaviourHow this paper remains relevant in current safety researchNo answer to this question of balancing these two behaviours Quotes:Katz is really one of the founding fathers in the field of organizational psychology. - Dr. Drew RaeIt’s not just that you’re physically getting people to stay but getting them to stay and still be willing to be productive. Dr. Drew Rae“When we promote autonomy, we need to think about what that does to reliable role performance.” - Dr. Drew RaeComplex situations, clearly need complex solutions. - Dr. David Provan Resources:Griffith University Safety Science Innovation LabThe Safety of Work PodcastFeedback@safetyofwork.comEpisode 2The motivational basis of organizational behavior (Paper)

Oct 17, 2021 • 38min
Ep.83 Does the language used in investigations influence the recommendations?
This paper reveals some really interesting findings and it would be valuable for companies to take notice and possibly change the way they implement incident report recoMmendations. Topics:Introduction to the paperThe general process of an investigationThe Hypothesis The differences between the reports and their languageThe results of the three reportsDifferences in the recommendations on each of the reportsThe different ways of interpreting the resultsPractical TakeawaysNot sharing lessons learned from incidents - let others learn it for themselves by sharing the report.Summary and answer to the question Quotes:“All of the information in every report is factual, all of the information is about the same real incident that happened.” Drew Rae“These are plausibly three different reports that are written for that same incident but they’re in very different styles, they highlight different facts and they emphasize different things.” Drew Rae“Incident reports could be doing so much more for us in terms of broader safety in the organization.” David Provan“From the same basic facts, what you select to highlight in the report and what story you use to tell seems to be leading us toward a particular recommendation.” - Drew Rae Resources:Griffith University Safety Science Innovation LabThe Safety of Work PodcastFeedback@safetyofwork.comAccident Report Interpretation PaperEpisode 18 - Do Powerpoint Slides count as a safety hazard?


