The Cartographers

In this conversation, Ashley sits down with Wendy Alsup to talk about what it might look to suffer well and what hope we have. This is a beautiful, real, and hopeful conversation that can help you lament and hope in light of the covid-19 pandemic and recent mass shootings.MORE ABOUT OUR GUESTWendy Alsup is an author who encourages women to engage theology for themselves. She is the author of several books including Practical Theology for Women, The Gospel-Centered Woman, and By His Wounds You Are Healed. She also teaches math at a local community college and is editor at theologyforwomen.org. She lives in Saint Matthews, South Carolina, with her two sons.LINKSWendy’s website: https://www.wendyalsup.com/Theology for Women: https://theologyforwomen.org/Wendy’s book, Companions in Suffering: https://amzn.to/3cbror7Wendy mentions the book Beyond Ourselves SHARE“I have come to think of suffering as our collective and individual groaning with the weight of the consequences of the fall of man.” @wendyalsup @aahales #findingholypodcast“Suffering well is not making your peace with death or divorce or cancer. It’s not putting on a happy face.” @wendyalsup @aahales #findingholypodcast“You have not fully understood Jesus until you see him as suffering servant.” @wendyalsup @aahales #findingholypodcast“It’s less painful to hate someone than hurting because I love my neighbor.” @wendyalsup @aahales #findingholypodcastONE SMALL STEPWendy talks about friends who were able to read scripture to her and pray with her during deep grief and suffering. They would talk her through her pain without being threatened by it. They would remind her words of scripture.As we’ve experienced so much suffering this last year, think about how you can grieve well and fully and who you might want to bring along. We may need to sit in Lamentations or have a sobbing prayer meeting. Repeat the strories of pain and retell the stories of grace. Story by story, pray: Lord this is not what you created. Redeem this, we pray.JUST FOR YOU! As we pass the one-year mark of the pandemic shutdown, so many emotions come up. Get your free Pandemic Anniversary Journal to help you process this time with God. I’m also sending out my Holy Week at Home journal this weekend. Get that when you sign up.*links to Amazon are affiliate links Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this conversation, Ashley sits down with Sheila Wise Rowe to talk about forms of racism, racial trauma, and the hope of Christ. It’s a practical, rich, and kind conversation you don’t want to miss.MORE ABOUT OUR GUESTSheila Wise Rowe is a graduate of Tufts University and Cambridge College with a master's degree in counseling psychology. For over twenty-five years she has counseled abuse and trauma survivors in the United States. Sheila ministered to homeless and abused women and children in Johannesburg, South Africa, where she also taught counseling and trauma-related courses for a decade. She lives in the Boston area, where she is a writer, counselor, speaker, and spiritual director.LINKSSheila’s website: https://sheilawiserowe.com/Sheila’s Operation Exodus article in the Boston Globe: https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/01/03/opinion/essay-50-years-after-operation-exodus-racial-trauma-remains/Healing Racial Trauma: https://amzn.to/2OZAVIISHARE“I came out of that questioning my identity.” @sheilawiserowe and @aahales on #findingholypodcast“There’s a mistaken notion that racism is just an interpersonal issue.” @sheilawiserowe and @aahales on #findingholypodcast“So often we have rushed to racial reconciliation without reckoning with the trauma.” @sheilawiserowe and @aahales on #findingholypodcast“Unhealed trauma can show up as rage or as exhaustion, fear, silence.” @sheilawiserowe and @aahales on #findingholypodcastONE SMALL STEPSheila reminds us that we have to look at trauma with others and the Lord. Practice this week lamenting before the Lord. Use Psalm 142 to help frame your prayer.Listen. Sheila asks: How can I minister the love and care of Jesus to who needs it — whether or not they’re believers? Pray in the minute — when you’re hearing someone else’s pain, or in a heated argument — to ask your thoughts captive in the moment to help you listen.JUST FOR YOU! FREE GIFT! PANDEMIC ANNIVERSARY JOURNAL!As we pass the one-year mark of the pandemic shutdown, so many emotions come up. Get your free Pandemic Anniversary Journal to help you process this time*links to Amazon are affiliate links Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this conversation, Ashley sits down with Scott Sauls to talk about ways to bridge divides in outrage culture. We talk about spiritual formation, living eulogies, and of course his laundry routine. Scott Sauls is Pastor of Christ Presbyterian Church in Nashville, TN and author of several books, including A Gentle Answer.LINKSScott’s websiteChrist Presbyterian Church:A Gentle AnswerSHARE“We ought to be much less offensive and offendable than the average person.” @scottsauls on #findingholypodcast with @aahales“If you want to persuade people, scolding is not the way to do it.” @scottsauls on #findingholypodcast with @aahales“You can’t get to virtue without Jesus.” @scottsauls on #findingholypodcast with @aahales“Beautiful people don’t just happen. It has to be reinforced in a liturgy.” @scottsauls on #findingholypodcast with @aahalesONE SMALL STEPOne way to practice growing in gentleness is to choose to go first. Scott Sauls reminds us there’s a power in going first — in sharing vulnerably, in asking for forgiveness, in helping to release tension, rather than stir it up. What would it look like to go first?Scott Sauls talks about giving “living eulogies” amongst his church staff. Start a family dinner or a work meeting with the things you love about another person — it should help decrease tension and help bring gentleness back into the conversation.SUBSCRIBE AND SHARE! If you’re looking for thoughtful conversations with a practical starting point, please subscribe and share this episode. More at www.aahales.com. *links to Amazon are affiliate links Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this conversation with Michael Wear, we talk about how we can actually have hope as Christians as we engage politically. He provides us with some frameworks about voting, and helps us think Christianly about how we might engage profitably in the public sphere. Don’t miss it!Share far and wide! Make sure you listen to last week’s episode with Kaitlyn Schiess, too.Join us for Season 4 as we consider hot-button issues alive and well in our world today: Living Faithfully in an Upside-Down World.LINKSMichael’s website: https://www.michaelwear.com/Michael’s most recent book, Compassion (&) Conviction, https://amzn.to/354MoLoMichael’s first book about his time in the Obama White House: Reclaiming Hope, https://amzn.to/31aAxudThe AND Campaign: https://www.andcampaign.org/Follow him on Twitter: @michaelrwearBONUS! Have a listen to Bryce Hales’ and Brad Edwards’ podcast, Everything Just Changed, especially their interviews with David French on politics and faith (and the substack associated with the podcast).SHAREThe question that’s shaped Michael Wear in politics and faith: “What is it to be faithful in public things?” #findingholypodcast @michaelrwear @aahales“Politics is causing spiritual harm in American lives.” @michaelrwear @aahales #findngholypodcastWhat does it mean to expect the fruit of the Spirit to show up in our public life? @michaelrwear #findingholypodcast @aahales“Politics is an essential form for loving our neighbor, not the form.” @michaelrwear #findingholypodcast @aahales“As Christians, we bring to politics a level of ambivalence, a level of humility.” @michaelrwear #findingholypodcast @aahalesONE SMALL STEPIt’s easy to argue online about politics. Instead, let’s think about how loving our neighbor matters to how we vote and act in the public sphere.Your small step this week is to talk with someone you disagree with politically. Practice asking questions. Let me know how it goes!SUBSCRIBE AND SHARE! We’d love it if you could subscribe to the Finding Holy Podcast and tell your friends! This whole season we’ll be talking with pastors, theologians, activists, professors and how we live right now with this confluence of a pandemic, racism, uncertainty and a partisan culture.*links to Amazon are affiliate links Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this conversation with Kaitlyn Schiess, author of The Liturgy of Politics, as we talk about how we’re formed by politics and how we’re formed by Christian faith. How do these two relate? Listen in to some great questions as you consider this fraught political climate as people of faith. And get some pointers to how to talk politics around the Thanksgiving table. Share far and wide!Join us for Season 4 as we consider hot-button issues alive and well in our world today: Living Faithfully in an Upside-Down World.LINKSKaitlyn’s website: https://kaitlynschiess.com/Kaitlyn’s book, The Liturgy of Politics: https://amzn.to/33GzxPZFollow her on Twitter: @kaitlynschiessSHARE“I joke that I started writing a book about politics, but I wrote a book about the church.” @kaitlynschiessDo we have a sense of being connected to the body of Christ across the globe then to my political party? @kaitlynschiess“We have considered ourselves as Christians to be a lobbyist group. But we don’t have the option of acting as a special interest group.” @kaitlynschiess“Treat your vote like the thing that it is. Don’t weigh it down with the things that it isn’t.” @kaitlynschiessONE SMALL STEPTake one of Kaitlyn’s questions and use it in a real-life, face-to-face conversation this week — or even use it to think through your own approach to politics. What would it look like for your community to flourish? What do you want? What do you think your vote means?  Who do you most feel the need to protect or be protected from?  SUBSCRIBE AND SHARE! We’d love it if you could subscribe to the Finding Holy Podcast and tell your friends! This whole season we’ll be talking with pastors, theologians, activists, professors and how we live right now with this confluence of a pandemic, racism, uncertainty and a partisan culture.*links to Amazon are affiliate links Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this conversation with Irwyn Ince, we talk about race, a theology of beauty, unity and diversity, how to communicate on sticky topics online, and what hope we have for this moment in time. Not to be missed!Join us for Season 4 as we consider hot-button issues alive and well in our world today: Living Faithfully in an Upside-Down World.LINKSIrwyn’s website: https://www.irwynince.com/aboutIrwyn’s book, The Beautiful Community: https://amzn.to/3hTQ9aSBook mentioned: On Beauty and Being Just: https://amzn.to/3clmxC1SHARE“All beauty has God as its source. All beauty is derived beauty.” @irwyn @aahales #findingholypodcast"God is in himself unity in diversity as Father, Son and Holy Spirit." @irwyn @aahales #findingholypodcast“We ought to pursue unity in diversity across lines of difference. We ought to talk about reunification of the human race in Jesus Christ. As a part of that we need to honest about the things that have caused our divides.” @irwyn @aahales #findingholypodcast“There’s no ‘out clause’ on loving my neighbor. And I don’t get to say, ‘You’re not a neighbor.’” @irwyn @aahales #findingholypodcast“There is no risk-free way to engage in these issues. That’s why we should be grateful for the means of grace.” @irwyn @aahales #findingholypodcastONE SMALL STEPSpend less time on social media this week.In a polarized world with fear and hate spewed on the Internet, a breath prayer helps orient you. Practice a breath prayer as you open social media this week. Lord Jesus Christ (breathe in), Have mercy on me, a sinner (breathe out). Then pray for the Spirit to guide you into love — rather than fear — as you interact online.SUBSCRIBE AND SHARE! We’d love it if you could subscribe to the Finding Holy Podcast and tell your friends! This whole season we’ll be talking with pastors, theologians, activists, professors and how we live right now with this confluence of a pandemic, racism, uncertainty and a partisan culture. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this conversation with D.L. Mayfield, we talk about systems in America, how place, education, and opportunities are unequal and strategies for resilience.Join us for Season 4 as we consider hot-button issues alive and well in our world today: Living Faithfully in an Upside-Down World.LINKSD.L. Mayfield’s website: http://www.dlmayfield.com/Danielle’s book, The Myth of the American Dream https://amzn.to/337kzkNDanielle’s first book, Assimilate or Go Home: https://amzn.to/3k1l9HIFollow Danielle on Twitter: @d_l_mayfield SHARE“I saw my city through refugee eyes.” @d_l_mayfield @aahales #findingholypodcast“You do have a responsibility to be honest about where you are. If you’re a Christian, you have to ask: do I use this power or privilege to love my neighbor? How do I create a world that is just?” @d_l_mayfield @aahales #findingholypodcast“If we don’t lament, we won’t have the scriptural imagination to consider something new.” @d_l_mayfield @aahales #findingholypodcast“We engage in self-care to build resilience.” @d_l_mayfield @aahales #findingholypodcast“Proximity without mutuality only makes things worse. The dream for mutual flourishing is God’s dream.” @d_l_mayfield @aahales #findingholypodcastONE SMALL STEPNow, in a global shutdown, take this moment to think about neighborliness and educate yourself about what you want to change when things open up. Start by reading or following social media accounts.Look at your church, your parks, your schools, your neighborhood. Does everyone look like you, act like you, vote like you? Try to change one of those things. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How do we talk about race and ethnicity as a discipleship issue and not a partisan issue? David Swanson talks about his book, Rediscipling the White Church and creative possibilities for this moment in time. Join us for Season 4 as we consider hot-button issues alive and well in our world today: Living Faithfully in an Upside-Down World.LINKSDavid’s book, Rediscipling the White Church: https://www.ivpress.com/rediscipling-the-white-churchDavid Swanson’s site: https://dwswanson.com/SHARE”Every congregation gets to be a part of reconciliation for the body of Christ for the glory of God.” @davidswanson“What Jesus accomplished on the cross includes justice as well.” @davidswanson“By pursuing racial justice, we’re alerting our communities that the kingdom of God has come near. There is a new way of living.” @davidswanson“Politically we’re often more aligned with people of our same race than with Christians of other races.” @davidswanson“As Christians, we don’t have to content ourselves with American optimism.” @davidswanson“Race detaches us from place.” @davidswansonONE SMALL STEPUse your internet scrolling time to do a little research project: take a few minutes to do a google search about your place. Who were the first inhabitants? What were housing laws like? Did an indigenous people group live there? Find out about the land underneath your feet and bring those findings to a God, in whose image we all are made.SUBSCRIBE AND SHARE! We’d love it if you could subscribe to the Finding Holy Podcast and tell your friends! This whole season we’ll be talking with pastors, theologians, activists, professors and how we live right now with this confluence of a pandemic, racism, uncertainty and a partisan culture. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this first episode of Season 4 on Living Faithfully in an Upside-Down World, David Taylor and I talk about the language of the Psalms and how they can help chart the way forward for Christians living now — in a pandemic, in an election year, with polarizing tensions, racial violence, inequality and more swirling around us.Find language, practices, and habits to root you now.LINKSDavid Taylor’s book, Open and Unafraid: https://amzn.to/3hfwtPkDavid’s website: http://artspastor.blogspot.com/Follow David on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wdavidotaylorSHAREThe Psalms give us edited language for our unedited emotions, and permission to say certain things to God. @wdavidotaylorThe Psalms remind us: Be a mess but do so before the face of God. @wdavidotaylorONE SMALL STEPGrab one other person and read through the same psalm a day for a week. Ask a daily question: What is one thing that caught your attention? The next day, follow up on that question with your person. Commit to read daily, connect somehow, and pray.SUBSCRIBE AND SHARE! We’d love it if you could subscribe to the Finding Holy Podcast and tell your friends! This whole season we’ll be talking with pastors, theologians, activists, professors and how we live right now with this confluence of a pandemic, racism, uncertainty and a partisan culture. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We need thoughtful voices that can ask hard questions and gently lead us forward. We need help as we consider how to vote, how to love our neighbor, and how to flex during this pandemic. Join us for Season 4: Living Faithfully in an Upside-Down World.Share a favorite episode on social media and tag me at @aahales (on Twitter or Instagram or Facebook) and you'll be entered to win a free copy of my book, Finding Holy in the Suburbs!For more info and past episodes, listen at www.aahales.com/podcast. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices