

The Body of Evidence
Dr. Christopher Labos
Dr. Christopher Labos and guests use the body of evidence to go beyond science and medicine headlines and hype. All to help you develop your critical thinking skills so that when you google your symptoms, you won't believe you’re going to die tomorrow.
The Body of Evidence is your weekly dose of clarity on complex health topics and the often-sketchy medical information found online. Hosted by cardiologist Dr. Christopher Labos and featuring a rotating cast of co-hosts and guests, this podcast brings you engaging interviews, original reporting, and humour-filled commentaries to help you navigate the world of medicine. Episodes tackle everything from debunking misinformation to exploring the reality of certain conditions to the effectiveness of social media medical trends. With an extensive archive dating back to 2015,The Body of Evidence is your go-to source for understanding science and medicine and developing critical thinking about your health.
The Body of Evidence is your weekly dose of clarity on complex health topics and the often-sketchy medical information found online. Hosted by cardiologist Dr. Christopher Labos and featuring a rotating cast of co-hosts and guests, this podcast brings you engaging interviews, original reporting, and humour-filled commentaries to help you navigate the world of medicine. Episodes tackle everything from debunking misinformation to exploring the reality of certain conditions to the effectiveness of social media medical trends. With an extensive archive dating back to 2015,The Body of Evidence is your go-to source for understanding science and medicine and developing critical thinking about your health.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Oct 17, 2021 • 37min
Interview - Effie Greathouse on Fluoride
Chris and Jonathan speak to Effie Greathouse, Ph.D., the co-founder of the website Fluoride Exposed dedicated to explaining the science of fluoride and water fluoridation to the public. 2:30 What is Fluoride Exposed? 3:54 Why we put fluoride in drinking water 10:15 Fluoride-free toothpaste 12:00 Arguments against fluoridation 14:00 Fluoride and IQ 21:51 Effie’s origin story and mom groups online 27:19 The phrase “anti-science” 29:23 The Christopher Labos Trivia Show * Theme music: “Fall of the Ocean Queen“ by Joseph Hackl. To contribute to The Body of Evidence, go to our Patreon page at: http://www.patreon.com/thebodyofevidence/. Patrons get a bonus show on Patreon called “Digressions”! Check it out! Links: 1) Fluoride Exposed website: https://fluorideexposed.org/ 2) Fluoride Exposed on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/explorefluoride 3) Fluoride Exposed on Twitter: https://twitter.com/FluorideExposed 4) Fluoride Exposed on Pinterest: https://tr.pinterest.com/fluorideexposed/

Oct 3, 2021 • 1h 10min
075 - Blood Pressure / Multiple Chemical Sensitivity / COVID Risks
What does the body of evidence have to say on the topic of blood pressure? Plus: what seems to be causing multiple chemical sensitivity, and we come face to face with the difficulty of deciding if an activity is risky or not when you’re fully vaccinated. Block 1: Blood pressure: what the numbers mean (2:27) Block 2: Blood pressure: should you treat it, what to aim for, how to treat it, how best to measure it (8:56) Block 3: Multiple chemical sensitivity, what happens when tests come back negative, and the ethics of prescribing placebos (28:11) Block 4: Question about the HPV vaccine and the immune system (45:56) Wrong numbers in Ottawa Heart Institute study scare people (48:12) Is this risky? (53:16) * Jingle by Jillian Correia of Roctavio Canada * Theme music: “Fall of the Ocean Queen“ by Joseph Hackl. * Assistant researcher: Nicholas Koziris To contribute to The Body of Evidence, go to our Patreon page at: http://www.patreon.com/thebodyofevidence/. To make a one-time donation to our show, you can use PayPal! https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=9QZET78JZWCZE Patrons get a bonus show on Patreon called “Digressions”! Check it out! References: 1) John Hay quote: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20776269/ 2) Oslo study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7001898/ 3) MRC study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2861880/ 4) SPRINT study: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1511939 5) ACCORD study: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1001286 6) STEP trial: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2111437 7) SSaSS study on salt substitute: https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2105675 8) ALLHAT trial: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/195626 9) ACC/AHA systematic review: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29133355/ 10) Jonathan’s article on the INSPQ report on multiple chemical sensitivity: https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/health/zeroing-cause-multiple-chemical-sensitivity 11) The INSPQ report on MCS (French only): https://www.inspq.qc.ca/publications/2729 Music: Fanfare for Space by Kevin MacLeod Link: https://filmmusic.io/song/3736-fanfare-for-space License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license Guitar Hero by Alexander Nakarada Link: https://filmmusic.io/song/4807-guitar-hero License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license Good Ideas For A New Startup by MusicLFiles Link: https://filmmusic.io/song/8159-good-ideas-for-a-new-startup License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Sep 19, 2021 • 1h 19min
Interview - Jack Lawrence and Gid M-K on Ivermectin
Chris and Jonathan speak to two guests about the slow collapse of the body of evidence on ivermectin for COVID-19, with a particular focus on the oft-cited Elgazzar randomized controlled trial. Their first guest is Jack Lawrence, a Master’s student and disinformation researcher, who took the Elgazzar paper apart, finding evidence of plagiarism and of potential data fraud. Their second guest is Gideon Meyerowitz-Katz, an epidemiologist, who appraised the Elgazzar study, the Carvallo “study,” and many others, and who reveals some of the telltale signs of scientific fraud. Guest #1: Jack Lawrence 3:06 Jack reads the Elgazzar study 5:55 A plagiarized introduction 7:46 The paper’s claims 11:57 Skimming a paper versus actively looking for fraud 24:45 Deaths didn’t add up 31:23 The Guardian’s coverage 36:10 A broken system Guest #2: Gid M-K 41:28 Most likely a fraud 46:34 Is this dataset real? 52:41 The Carvallo “study” may never have taken place as described 58:11 IVMMeta.com, an anonymous pseudoscientific website 1:04:16 Churning out bad meta-analyses 1:07:07 Gid’s verdict on ivermectin for COVID-19 1:12:23 Maintaining trust in science in the face of fraud * Theme music: “Fall of the Ocean Queen“ by Joseph Hackl. To contribute to The Body of Evidence, go to our Patreon page at: http://www.patreon.com/thebodyofevidence/. Patrons get a bonus show on Patreon called “Digressions”! Check it out! Links: 1) Jack Lawrence on Twitter: https://twitter.com/JackMLawrence 2) Jack Lawrence’s TimPoolClips account: https://twitter.com/TimPoolClips 3) Jack Lawrence’s blog post on the Elgazzar paper: https://grftr.news/why-was-a-major-study-on-ivermectin-for-covid-19-just-retracted/ 4) Gid M-K on Twitter: https://twitter.com/GidMK 5) Gid M-K’s podcast, Sensationalist Science: https://soundcloud.com/senscipod 6) Gid M-K’s first blog post on the ivermectin saga: https://elemental.medium.com/ivermectin-for-covid-19-an-update-5e913bb49483 7) The Elgazzar study: https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-100956/v3 8) Nick Brown’s blog post about the Elgazzar study: https://steamtraen.blogspot.com/2021/07/Some-problems-with-the-data-from-a-Covid-study.html 9) The Guardian’s coverage of the Elgazzar study: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-supporting-ivermectin-as-covid-treatment-withdrawn-over-ethical-concerns 10) The BuzzFeed investigation into the Carvallo “study”: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/stephaniemlee/ivermectin-covid-study-suspect-data 11) IVMMeta website: https://ivmmeta.com/

Sep 5, 2021 • 1h 6min
Special - Medical Specialties Part 2
Previously, on the Body of Evidence: Jonathan asked Chris to rank medical specialties from super-amazing to garbage! As Chris finds himself lounging on a beach in Greece, we release the conclusion to this special episode. You will learn so much about pathology, cardiology and other specialties, and you will finally hear which branches of medicine Chris thinks are GARBAGE! (sort of… for him… ‘cause he doesn’t like them… but we need doctors to do those things so….) * Theme music: “Fall of the Ocean Queen“ by Joseph Hackl. To contribute to The Body of Evidence, go to our Patreon page at: http://www.patreon.com/thebodyofevidence/. Patrons get a bonus show on Patreon called “Digressions”! Check it out! Music Credits: Cinema Blockbuster Trailer 6 by Sascha Ende® Link: https://filmmusic.io/song/288-cinema-blockbuster-trailer-6 License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Aug 8, 2021 • 56min
074 - Ergonomics / Juul Controversy / Q&A
What does the body of evidence have to say on the topic of ergonomics? Plus: should a maker of vaping products have bought out an entire issue of an academic journal to publish its studies, and we answer questions from our listeners about osteoporosis and COVID contrarians. Block 1: Ergonomics: carpal tunnel syndrome and ergonomic keyboards (2:09) Block 2: Ergonomics: work breaks, arm supports, workplace interventions, standing desks, and computer glasses (11:27) Block 3: The controversy over Juul e-cigarettes and academic publishing (28:42) Block 4: Is this paper proof that strontium works for osteoporosis? (41:07) What’s with MDs and PhDs becoming COVID contrarians? (45:33) * Jingle by Joseph Hackl * Theme music: “Fall of the Ocean Queen“ by Joseph Hackl. * Assistant researcher: Nicholas Koziris To contribute to The Body of Evidence, go to our Patreon page at: http://www.patreon.com/thebodyofevidence/. To make a one-time donation to our show, you can now use PayPal! https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=9QZET78JZWCZE Patrons get a bonus show on Patreon called “Digressions”! Check it out! References: 1) Cochrane review on ergonomic keyboards for carpal tunnel syndrome: https://www.cochrane.org/CD009600/NEUROMUSC_ergonomic-positioning-or-equipment-for-carpal-tunnel-syndrome 2) Cochrane review on various interventions for reducing neck pain: https://www.cochrane.org/CD008570/OCCHEALTH_ergonomic-interventions-preventing-work-related-musculoskeletal-disorders-upper-limb-and-neck-among 3) Cochrane review on various interventions for reducing neck pain: https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD008570.pub3/full?highlightAbstract=ergonomic%7Cergonom 4) Cochrane review on various interventions for reducing neck pain: https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD012886.pub2/full?highlightAbstract=ergonomic%7Cergonom 5) Cochrane review on ergonomics in dentistry practices: https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD011261.pub2/full?highlightAbstract=ergonomic%7Cergonom 6) Cochrane review on workplace interventions: https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD010912.pub5/full?highlightAbstract=ergonomic%7Cergonom 7) Sydney Morning Herald article on the lack of science in ergonomics: https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/health-and-wellness/a-difficult-position-experts-question-whether-ergonomics-holds-up-20180910-p502w5.html 8) Our previous episodes on vaping: https://bodyofevidence.ca/005-e-cigarettes, https://bodyofevidence.ca/052-baldness-and-vaping, and https://bodyofevidence.ca/056-drinking-water-and-olivier-bernard 9) Philadelphia Inquirer article on the Juul controversy: https://www.inquirer.com/health/juul-pro-vaping-research-seeks-to-influence-fda-regulation-e-cigarettes-20210710.html 10) The paper on strontium for osteoporosis: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5310667/

Jul 18, 2021 • 49min
Interview - Lindsay Duncan on Doping in Sport
Jonathan and Chris speak to Dr. Lindsay Duncan, a kinesiologist and co-director of the Theories and Interventions in Exercise and Health Psychology laboratory at McGill University. In light of the upcoming Summer Olympics, what are banned substances and why are they banned? How common is supplement use among athletes? And do superhero movies—with actors undergoing dramatic body transformations in a short amount of time—alter expectations in the gym? 1:45 Why are some competitive advantages allowed but not others? 5:17 The next frontier: gene editing 6:43 Banned substances cleared for medical use 11:29 Common performance-enhancing drugs 13:51 THC and alcohol 18:49 The possibility of accidental exposure 20:37 Protecting athletes from harm 26:09 Supplement use is incredibly common 29:04 The superhero physique 33:33 Celebrity trainers 36:48 Sleep and rest 40:25 Athletes’ use of social media 41:46 Preventing drug use in young athletes 44:22 Stripping away hype without affecting motivation If you want to apply to be our social media manager, you find the details here: https://bodyofevidence.ca/looking-for-part-time-social-media-manager * Theme music: “Fall of the Ocean Queen“ by Joseph Hackl. To contribute to The Body of Evidence, go to our Patreon page at: http://www.patreon.com/thebodyofevidence/. Patrons get a bonus show on Patreon called “Digressions”! Check it out! Links: 1) Lindsay Duncan on Twitter: https://twitter.com/LindsayDuncan9

Jul 4, 2021 • 1h
073 - Fibromyalgia / Mixing Vaccines / Myocarditis Risk
What does the body of evidence have to say on the topic of fibromyalgia? Plus: assorted topical discussions about mixing COVID vaccines, the tiny/maybe/it’s nothing increased risk of myocarditis and pericarditis with the RNA vaccines, and long-term immunity following COVID vaccination. Block 1: Fibromyalgia: what could be causing it? (3:00) Block 2: Fibromyalgia: diagnosing and treating it (10:02) Block 3: Mixing and matching COVID vaccines (28:20) Block 4: Myocarditis and pericarditis with the RNA vaccines (38:40) Long-term immunity from COVID vaccines (51:35) If you want to apply to be our social media manager, you find the details here: https://bodyofevidence.ca/looking-for-part-time-social-media-manager * Jingle by Joseph Hackl * Theme music: “Fall of the Ocean Queen“ by Joseph Hackl. * Assistant researcher: Nicholas Koziris To contribute to The Body of Evidence, go to our Patreon page at: http://www.patreon.com/thebodyofevidence/. To make a one-time donation to our show, you can now use PayPal! https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=9QZET78JZWCZE Patrons get a bonus show on Patreon called “Digressions”! Check it out! References: 1) Prevalence of fibromyalgia: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23203795/ 2) Diagnostic criteria for fibromyalgia: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20461783/ 3) Misdiagnosis of fibromyalgia, comparing physicians to criteria-based diagnosis: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/acr.23731 4) FM/a blood test for fibromyalgia (Science-Based Medicine post): https://www.skepdoc.info/a-blood-test-for-fibromyalgia/ 5) FM/a blood test for fibromyalgia (AAFP article): https://www.aafp.org/afp/2021/0501/p566.html 6) Economic benefits after receiving a fibromyalgia diagnosis: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18311794/ and https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23024016/ 7) Exercise for fibromyalgia: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28636204/ 8) UK preprint on mixing and matching COVID vaccines (Com-COV trial): https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3874014 9) Ed Yong’s article on how the immune system is where intuition goes to die: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/08/covid-19-immunity-is-the-pandemics-central-mystery/614956/ 10) Nature paper on long-term immunity after receiving a COVID vaccine: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03738-2

Jun 20, 2021 • 55min
Interview - Tania Bubela on Vaccine Patents
Chris and Jonathan speak to Dean Tania Bubela from Simon Fraser University, an expert on scientific innovations and intellectual property. The big question: as we try to get COVID-19 vaccines into more arms and in a more equitable fashion worldwide, should the patents pharmaceutical companies have on these vaccines be lifted? And what would a better system look like when the next pandemic hits us? 3:45 What is a patent? 8:00 Patents in biomedicine 12:58 To lift or not to lift COVID-19 vaccine patents? 17:15 The potential of the mRNA platform 28:30 Bill Gates, his love of IP, and the Oxford University-AstraZeneca deal 35:34 A better system involving public-private partnerships 40:51 Do we need pharma? 46:22 Does pharma deserve our trust? If you want to apply to be our social media manager, you can find the details here: https://bodyofevidence.ca/looking-for-part-time-social-media-manager * Theme music: “Fall of the Ocean Queen“ by Joseph Hackl. To contribute to The Body of Evidence, go to our Patreon page at: http://www.patreon.com/thebodyofevidence/. Patrons get a bonus show on Patreon called “Digressions”! Check it out! Links: 1) Tania Bubela on Twitter: https://twitter.com/bubela_tania

Jun 6, 2021 • 55min
072 - Liver Disease / Sleep Disorder / Grab Bag
Liver disease (2:29 for part 1, 11:13 for part 2) // sleep disorder (28:42) // The omega-3 war (41:55), coffee and colorectal cancer (45:37), and RNA vaccines and myocarditis (48:44). * Jingle by Jillian Correia of Roctavio Canada * Theme music: “Fall of the Ocean Queen“ by Joseph Hackl. * Assistant researcher: Nicholas Koziris To contribute to The Body of Evidence, go to our Patreon page at: http://www.patreon.com/thebodyofevidence/ Patrons get a bonus show on Patreon called “Digressions”! Check it out! References: 1) Jonathan’s article on the OURA ring: https://mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-health-technology/magical-ring-was-claimed-predict-covid-19 2) Coffee consumption and colorectal cancer prognosis: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaoncology/article-abstract/2777346?utm_campaign=articlePDF&utm_medium=articlePDFlink&utm_source=articlePDF&utm_content=jamaoncol.2020.8479 Music Credits: Lofi Chill Hip-Hop by WinnieTheMoog Link: https://filmmusic.io/song/6347-lofi-chill-hip-hop License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license Morning Rhythm by Rafael Krux Link: https://filmmusic.io/song/5338-morning-rhythm- License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

May 23, 2021 • 1h 2min
Interview - Clay Jones on Newborns and Kids
Jonathan and Chris delve into the world of newborns and medical care for children with Dr. Clay Jones, a paediatrician who practices in Massachusetts and who regularly writes for the Science-Based Medicine blog. From preventing SIDS to treating a fever (or not), we go through our listeners’ questions. In a week, our patrons will get a bonus episode with more from Clay! 2:04 COVID-19 vaccines in kids 6:27 “I’m not anti-vaccine but…” says Texas paediatrician 12:17 Chiropractic in children and babies 20:07 Best temperature for newborns (in Fahrenheit!) 22:36 Are diapers bad for the baby? 25:25 Safe sleeping 30:00 What predisposes to SIDS? 32:16 Do newborns dream? (An Inception on Elm Street) 37:37 Baby slings and hip dysplasia 42:57 Long-term outcome of very premature babies 45:44 Apgar scores (to get into daycare) 48:28 Fever 51:49 Teething 54:44 Recurring infections in kindergarten 57:16 RyRy’s impossible question * Theme music: “Fall of the Ocean Queen“ by Joseph Hackl. To contribute to The Body of Evidence, go to our Patreon page at: http://www.patreon.com/thebodyofevidence/. Patrons get a bonus show on Patreon called “Digressions”! Check it out! Links: 1) Clay Jones at Science-Based Medicine: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/clayjones/ 2) Clay Jones on Twitter: https://twitter.com/SBMPediatrics