Scaling Laws

Graham Dufault, General Counsel at ACT | The App Association, advocates for small tech companies navigating the complex EU AI laws. He discusses a significant survey revealing that many SMEs face delays and client losses attributed to regulatory impacts. Dufault highlights the widespread AI adoption among these businesses and emphasizes their demand for clear rules over excessive precaution. He also calls for a flexible U.S. transparency framework to aid compliance and enhance collaboration between lawmakers and local startups.

Caleb Withers, a research associate at the Center for a New American Security, dives into the impact of AI on cybersecurity. He discusses how frontier models shift the advantage to attackers, increasing both the scale and sophistication of cyber threats. Withers highlights persistent vulnerabilities in software and emphasizes AI's dual role in secure coding—both as a source of risk and a tool for detection. Additionally, he explores the urgent need for policy attention and industry responses to tackle the evolving landscape of AI-enhanced cyber warfare.

Andrew Prystai, CEO of Vesta, and Thomas Bueler-Faudree, co-founder of August Law, delve into AI policy from a startup’s perspective. They discuss how Vesta uses AI for marketing event organization while August Law automates legal processes. The duo highlights the challenges startups face under regulatory pressure, including compliance burdens and the impact of local laws like New York's RAISE Act. They also emphasize AI's potential to transform jobs and advise founders to focus on product velocity and innovation.

Jeff Bleich, General Counsel at Anthropic and former U.S. Ambassador, dives into the legal intricacies of AI with host Kevin Frazier. He discusses how his background in autonomous vehicles shaped his insights into AI governance. Bleich emphasizes the need for tech optimism, arguing that responsible use of AI can enhance lives. He touches on the role of democracy in managing innovation, public skepticism toward new technologies, and how law students should embrace AI to stay ahead in their careers.

In a fascinating discussion, Nathan Goldschlag, a director at the Economic Innovation Group, Bharat Chander from Stanford, and Anton Korinek, a UVA professor, dive into the transformative impact of AI on jobs and the economy. They explore the nuances of augmentation versus automation, the complexities behind large layoffs, and the need for better data on AI adoption. The trio emphasizes scenario planning for future developments, critiques misguided policy approaches, and offers advice for students navigating the evolving job landscape amid AI advancements.

Gabriel Nicholas, a member of the Product Public Policy team at Anthropic, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to introduce the policy problems (and some solutions) posed by AI agents. Defined as AI tools capable of autonomously completing tasks on your behalf, it’s widely expected that AI agents will soon become ubiquitous. The integration of AI agents into sensitive tasks presents a slew of technical, social, economic, and political questions. Gabriel walks through the weighty questions that labs are thinking through as AI agents finally become “a thing.” Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In a captivating discussion, Renée DiResta, an expert on misinformation, Brett Goldstein, a national security advisor, and Brett Benson, a political science professor, explore the dark side of AI in influence operations. They unveil the alarming GoLaxy documents detailing a 'Smart Propaganda System' capable of creating psychological profiles and resilient personas. The trio examines how AI has transformed disinformation tactics, making detection increasingly difficult, and warns of the growing threat to U.S. democracy and strategic alliances.

California State Senator Scott Wiener, author of Senate Bill 53--a frontier AI safety bill--signed into law by Governor Newsom earlier this month, joins Alan Rozenshtein, Associate Professor at Minnesota Law and Research Director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to explain the significance of SB 53 in the large debate about how to govern AI.The trio analyze the lessons that Senator Wiener learned from the battle of SB 1047, a related bill that Newsom vetoed last year, explore SB 53’s key provisions, and forecast what may be coming next in Sacramento and D.C. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Mosharaf Chowdhury, associate professor at the University of Michigan and director of the ML Energy lab, and Dan Zhao, AI researcher at MIT, GoogleX, and Microsoft focused on AI for science and sustainable and energy-efficient AI, join Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss the energy costs of AI.  They break down exactly how much a energy fuels a single ChatGPT query, why this is difficult to figure out, how we might improve energy efficiency, and what kinds of policies might minimize AI’s growing energy and environmental costs.  Leo Wu provided excellent research assistance on this podcast. Read more from Mosharaf:https://ml.energy/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2025/05/20/1116327/ai-energy-usage-climate-footprint-big-tech/ Read more from Dan:https://arxiv.org/abs/2310.03003’https://arxiv.org/abs/2301.11581 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

David Sullivan, Executive Director of the Digital Trust & Safety Partnership, and Rayi Iyer, Managing Director of the Psychology of Technology Institute at USC’s Neely Center, join join Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss the evolution of the Trust & Safety field and its relevance to ongoing conversations about how best to govern AI.   They discuss the importance of thinking about the end user in regulation, debate the differences and similarities between social media and AI companions, and evaluate current policy proposals. You’ll “like” (bad pun intended) this one. Leo Wu provided excellent research assistance to prepare for this podcast. Read more from David:https://www.weforum.org/stories/2025/08/safety-product-build-better-bots/https://www.techpolicy.press/learning-from-the-past-to-shape-the-future-of-digital-trust-and-safety/ Read more from Ravi:https://shows.acast.com/arbiters-of-truth/episodes/ravi-iyer-on-how-to-improve-technology-through-designhttps://open.substack.com/pub/psychoftech/p/regulate-value-aligned-design-not?r=2alyy0&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false  Read more from Kevin:https://www.cato.org/blog/california-chatroom-ab-1064s-likely-constitutional-overreach Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.