

Scaling Laws
Lawfare & University of Texas Law School
Scaling Laws explores (and occasionally answers) the questions that keep OpenAI’s policy team up at night, the ones that motivate legislators to host hearings on AI and draft new AI bills, and the ones that are top of mind for tech-savvy law and policy students. Co-hosts Alan Rozenshtein, Professor at Minnesota Law and Research Director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas and Senior Editor at Lawfare, dive into the intersection of AI, innovation policy, and the law through regular interviews with the folks deep in the weeds of developing, regulating, and adopting AI. They also provide regular rapid-response analysis of breaking AI governance news. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Jan 22, 2026 • 56min
Rapid Response Pod on The Implications of Claude's New Constitution
Jakub Kraus engages Alan Z. Rozenshtein, an Associate Professor of Law, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow, to dissect Anthropic's new constitution for Claude. They explore the philosophical underpinnings of AI governance and the document's guiding principles, aimed at ethical and safe AI development. The duo debates the concept of AI as a potential moral being and the implications of market dynamics on model choices. Frazier advocates for clear consumer metrics, while Rozenshtein emphasizes the need for virtue ethics in AI alignment.

Jan 20, 2026 • 43min
The Honorable AI? Shlomo Klapper Talks Judicial Use of AI
Shlomo Klapper, founder of Learned Hand, brings a unique perspective on integrating AI into the judicial system. He discusses how the platform aids overworked judges by automating repetitive tasks, allowing them to focus on critical judgments. Shlomo highlights AI's potential to improve access to justice, especially for unrepresented litigants, while addressing concerns about biases and fact-checking. He also touches on the readiness of state trial courts for early adoption and the necessity of building trust in AI tools within the legal arena.

Jan 13, 2026 • 52min
How AI Can Transform Local Criminal Justice, with Francis Shen
In this engaging discussion, Francis Shen, a Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota and director of the Shen Neurolaw Lab, explores the innovative intersection of AI and criminal justice. He highlights how AI can enhance criminal investigations and improve clearance rates. Shen advocates for precision sentencing to tailor justice to individual cases while addressing ethical concerns around AI bias. He urges for transparent implementation of AI in local governance, building public trust and institutional capacity for a more effective justice system.

Jan 6, 2026 • 51min
Release Schedules and Iterative Deployment with Open AI's Ziad Reslan
Ziad Reslan, a member of OpenAI’s Product Policy Staff and a Senior Fellow with the Schmidt Program on Artificial Intelligence, Emerging Technologies, and National Power at Yale University, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to talk about iterative deployment--the lab’s approach to testing and deploying its models. It’s a complex and, at times, controversial approach. Ziad provides the rationale behind iterative deployment and tackles some questions about whether the strategy has always worked as intended. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Dec 30, 2025 • 54min
A Year That Felt Like a Decade: 2025 Recap with Sen. Maroney & Neil Chilson
Connecticut State Senator James Maroney and Neil Chilson, Head of AI Policy at the Abundance Institute, join Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, and Alan Rozenshtein, Associate Professor at Minnesota Law and Research Director at Lawfare, for a look back at a wild year in AI policy.Neil provides his expert analysis of all that did (and did not) happen at the federal level. Senator Maroney then examines what transpired across the states. The four then offer their predictions for what seems likely to be an even busier 2026. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

20 snips
Dec 23, 2025 • 43min
Cass Sunstein on What AI Can and Cannot Do
Cass Sunstein, Robert Walmsley University Professor at Harvard and a legal scholar, dives deep into AI’s capabilities and limitations. He discusses when to trust algorithms over human judgment and highlights the distinction between noise reduction and bias in decision-making. Sunstein emphasizes the implications of AI in fields like medicine and law, and addresses how biased training data can skew outcomes. He also explores the unpredictability of social phenomena, advocating for careful consideration of when to delegate decisions to AI.

Dec 16, 2025 • 54min
AI Chatbots and the Future of Free Expression with Jacob Mchangama and Jacob Shapiro
Renée DiResta, Lawfare contributing editor and associate research professor at Georgetown's McCourt School of Public Policy, and Alan Z. Rozenshtein, Lawfare senior editor and associate professor of law the University of Minnesota, spoke with Jacob Mchangama, research professor of political science at Vanderbilt University and founder of The Future of Free Speech, and Jacob Shapiro, the John Foster Dulles Professor of International Affairs at Princeton University. The conversation covered the findings of a new report examining how AI models handle contested speech; comparative free speech regulations across six jurisdictions; empirical testing of how major chatbots respond to politically sensitive prompts; and the tension between free expression principles and concerns about manipulation in AI systems. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Dec 12, 2025 • 56min
Rapid Response Pod on the AI Preemption Executive Order
In this rapid response episode, Lawfare senior editors Alan Rozenshtein and Kevin Frazier and Lawfare Tarbell fellow Jakub Kraus discuss President Trump's new executive order on federal preemption of state AI laws, the politics of AI regulation and the split between Silicon Valley Republicans and MAGA populists, and the administration's decision to allow Nvidia to export H200 chips to China. Mentioned in this episode:Executive Order: Ensuring a National Policy Framework for Artificial IntelligenceCharlie Bullock, "Legal Issues Raised by the Proposed Executive Order on AI Preemption," Institute for Law & AI Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Dec 9, 2025 • 45min
Graham Dufault on small businesses and navigating EU AI laws
Graham Dufault, General Counsel at ACT | The App Association, advocates for small tech companies navigating the complex EU AI laws. He discusses a significant survey revealing that many SMEs face delays and client losses attributed to regulatory impacts. Dufault highlights the widespread AI adoption among these businesses and emphasizes their demand for clear rules over excessive precaution. He also calls for a flexible U.S. transparency framework to aid compliance and enhance collaboration between lawmakers and local startups.

Dec 2, 2025 • 48min
Caleb Withers on the Cybersecurity Frontier in the Age of AI
Caleb Withers, a research associate at the Center for a New American Security, dives into the impact of AI on cybersecurity. He discusses how frontier models shift the advantage to attackers, increasing both the scale and sophistication of cyber threats. Withers highlights persistent vulnerabilities in software and emphasizes AI's dual role in secure coding—both as a source of risk and a tool for detection. Additionally, he explores the urgent need for policy attention and industry responses to tackle the evolving landscape of AI-enhanced cyber warfare.


