Between Us: A Psychotherapy Podcast

Lara Sheehi was doing her job as a professor of clinical psychology when her criticism of Israel catapulted her into uninvited infamy. Bad faith accusations of antisemitism, reliant on obfuscating political dissent with bigotry led to her investigation while reports from news outlets led to her being disinvited from speaking engagements, stalked, and protested. Despite a letter of support from Jewish colleagues that included giants in the field of psychoanalysis, the controversy split the field in two- those who knew her compassionate work on behalf of the oppressed and those who scapegoated her as a danger to psychoanalytic innocence. It is this myth of purity that shapes Lara’s theory and resistance to the veil of mutuality and dialogue, which she contends too often obstructs the very nature of our unequal material realities. Sheehi challenges us to be vigilant towards misrecognition, the not-so-unconscious ways in which we commit to logics of oppression, especially those of us who identify as healers. ----------- Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely Music by Mason Neely Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll Website: www.betweenuspodcast.com Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ

Sue Grand joins us for a conversation about hatred and totalitarianism. A psychoanalyst who has spent decades studying trauma and the ways evil reproduces across history, Grand is interested in how introspection might protect us and others from our own perpetrator fragments. She challenges the assumption that traumatized people victimize others—most do not. The regeneration of harm, she argues, arises from a complex interplay between psychological defenses and social structures such as gender binaries and racialization. But how do everyday people get caught up in the fevered swell of fascist times? Can psychotherapy be antifascist? Grand examines the erotic lure of fascism, while John and Mason explore Deleuze and Guattari’s provocative claim that, on some level, we all desire it. || Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely || Music by Mason Neely || Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll || Website: www.betweenuspodcast.com || Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com || Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod || Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast || YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ

In a deep dive, Tony Bass, a renowned psychoanalyst and president of the Stephen Mitchell Relational Studies Center, shares his insights on the art of therapy. He emphasizes the importance of mutual influence in the therapeutic relationship, likening it to an improvisational jazz session where both client and therapist contribute uniquely. The conversation highlights how personal experiences shape clinical practice and the intricate dance of emotions within therapy. Bass explores the courage needed to navigate unconscious dynamics and the paradox of connection in our technology-driven world.

Roy Barsness, a Professor and author known for his work in psychodynamic supervision, shares insights from his new book. He discusses how viewing patients as muses can transform therapeutic supervision. The conversation explores the complexities of relational dynamics and the importance of emotional acknowledgment in therapy. Barsness emphasizes the therapist’s personal journey and the ethical considerations of disclosure, advocating for transparency and collaborative exploration in the therapeutic process.

Jay Bakker joins us live from the International Forum for Psychoanalytic Education. As the child of the famous televangelists Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker, Jay has always been surrounded by persistent narratives—even among therapists of every stripe. The pressures of life in the limelight from an early age led him to cope through addiction, especially after his parents faced a very public downfall. But when the Oscar-winning film The Eyes of Tammy Faye was released, Jay sought treatment once again—this time with a psychoanalytic psychotherapist. In a vulnerable conversation, in front of an audience of therapists, Jay shares how this treatment helped him better understand what his unconscious was doing to him, and how psychoanalysis has shaped his efforts to build a more hospitable theology as he strives to disagree well with those across ideologies. Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely Music by Mason Neely Engineering by Ian Knippel Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll Website: www.betweenuspodcast.com Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ

Lynne Layton joins us for our most political conversation to date. Layton’s concept of the normative unconscious, which addresses the myriad of ways we all strive to maintain the status quo, has been influential to those who believe that the mind is shaped by social forces beyond the family. Racism and sexism play a central role, but these bigotries, that work to separate us and dominate some, also work in tandem with economic and political forces that seek to make us all subservient. Layton discusses the influence Erich Fromm had on her work, her critique of the neoliberal regime through a psychoanalytic lens, and how the controversies produced by such inquiries, are very much alive and well in a field that is capable of crying in terror at straw men like “wokeism” and “identity politics.” Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely Music by Mason Neely Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll Website: www.betweenuspodcast.com Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ

Karim Dajani, a psychoanalyst with roots in a Palestinian refugee family, dives deep into the intersections of social consciousness and psychoanalysis. He critiques how the field often neglects the social factors shaping our unconscious, reflecting on the exclusion of theorists like Trigant Burrow. Dajani passionately advocates for an understanding of identity rooted in cultural experiences, especially in the context of global conflicts. His fresh perspective urges a reckoning within psychoanalysis, spotlighting the necessity for inclusivity and social awareness.

Eyal Rozmarin, a psychoanalyst known for his exploration of belonging and subjectivity, dives deep into the complexities of identity. He discusses how societal constructs shape personal experiences and the emotional toll of these dynamics. Rozmarin challenges the idea of a fixed Self, suggesting that true liberation comes from recognizing the transient nature of identity. He also touches on the interplay of personal and collective struggles, emphasizing the importance of overcoming societal expectations to achieve a deeper understanding of self and community.

In the premiere of season six, psychoanalyst Eyal Rozmarin joins our host John Totten to discuss the constitutive power of belonging. A native of Israel-Palestine, and an objector to his compulsory military service, Eyal has a unique take on the respective costs of belonging and its counterpart abandonment. From Oedipus to the superego, Freud is subverted here; Rozmarin posits it is not that society protects us from our own nature, but that belonging turns us into killers. Is it possible that our collectives are antithetical to the goals of psychotherapy and what is the implication for the treatment room? This and more is discussed in the first of a two-part conversation. Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely Music by Mason Neely Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll Website: www.betweenuspodcast.com Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ

Orna Guralnik, a practicing psychoanalyst and couples therapist known for her role in the show Couples Therapy, joins John Totten in a fascinating discussion. They dive into the complex relationship between therapy and geopolitics, highlighting how personal identities shape therapeutic experiences. Orna shares insights on navigating authority and compassion in therapy, revealing the challenges of maintaining privacy while documenting sessions. The conversation culminates in exploring the intricacies of emotional intimacy and the vital importance of mutual recognition amidst conflicting histories.