Making Therapy Better

Steven is a professor of psychology at Vanderbilt University. He has over 300 publications to his name and is the recipient of numerous awards, including, in 2020, the American Psychological Association’s Distinguished Scientific Award for the Applications of Psychology. He has served as Editor of the journal Cognitive Therapy and Research, and president of the Association for Behavioral and Cognitive Therapies. His research focuses on the treatment and prevention of depression, with a particular emphasis on cognitive therapy in comparison to antidepressant medications.In this episode, Bruce talks to Steven about the evolutionary origins of depression and what we know about the most effective treatments for depression and their mechanisms of action. Steven also presents some surprising new data that challenges the long-held belief that the combination of psychotherapy and medication is more effective in the treatment of depression than either one on its own. Follow Making Therapy Better onInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/making_ther...Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/makingtherap...Twitter: https://twitter.com/therapybetterLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/917...The intro and outro music is the Borromeo String Quartet performing Beethoven's "String Quartet No. 3 in D Major"http://www.makingtherapybetter.comMaking Therapy Better is brought to you by CarePaths https://www.carepaths.com

Ed received his doctorate in anthropology from UC Santa Barbara, after which he worked at the Institute for Theoretical Biology in Berlin. He is currently a professor of evolutionary anthropology and director of the Bioanthropology Lab at Washington State University Vancouver. His research focuses on evolutionary medicine and finding evolutionary explanations for the origins of substance use and other mental health issues. His work challenges the notion that depression is caused by a dysfunction of the brain and argues that it is likely an adaptive response passed down through natural selection.In this episode, Bruce talks with Ed about his theories and how they can affect the way we view clinical practice.Follow Making Therapy Better onInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/making_ther...Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/makingtherap...Twitter: https://twitter.com/therapybetterLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/917...The intro and outro music is the Borromeo String Quartet performing Beethoven's "String Quartet No. 3 in D Major"www.makingtherapybetter.comMaking Therapy Better is sponsored by CarePaths https://www.carepaths.com

Barrett Griffith is CEO of CarePaths, where he has served for over five years, previously as a developer and then as CTO. He has two decades of experience in the tech industry, with much of that time in healthcare IT.Maureen Hart, PhD and Geoff Gray, PhD are both psychologists with years of clinical and managerial experience who saw the potential for technology to improve the quality of mental health care. Together they started CarePaths over twenty years ago as an electronic health records system which now includes practice management and outcomes measurement tools. In 2022 they teamed up with Professor Wampold to launch Making Therapy Better, an educational initiative including a blog, webinar and this podcast, coinciding with the release of Automated Measurement Based Care by Bruce Wampold, PhD, a feature of the new CarePaths Connect Digital Front Door and Mobile app for patients. Their hope is to improve mental health outcomes by providing therapists with reliable information on the benefits and practice of MBC as well as effective and affordable tools for implementing it.In the final episode of Season 1, Bruce talks with the CarePaths team about the founding of their company and the origins of the Making Therapy Better project. They also review some of the most important themes from the first eleven episodes of the podcast and discuss what's in store for Season 2.Follow Making Therapy Better on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/making_ther... Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/makingtherap... Twitter: https://twitter.com/therapybetter LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/917...The intro and outro music is the Borromeo String Quartet performing Beethoven's "String Quartet No. 3 in D Major"www.makingtherapybetter.comSponsored by CarePaths EHR and Measurement Based Care

Catherine Eubanks, PhD is co-director of the Center for Alliance-Focused Training, and professor of clinical psychology at Adelphi University. She is a fellow of the American Psychological Association and received the Outstanding Early Career Achievement Award from the Society for Psychotherapy Research in 2015. Dr. Eubanks helped to develop the Rupture Resolution Rating System and is coauthor of Therapist Performance under Pressure: Negotiating Emotion, Difference and Rupture. She also recently released Rupture and Repair in Psychotherapy as part of the APA Video Series.In this episode, Bruce and Catherine discuss the importance of a good working therapeutic alliance, particularly how to recognize and repair ruptures in the alliance, both big and small. They identify the most common markers of alliance ruptures, and talk about how clinical supervisors can work with therapists in training to better recognize these markers. They also talk about supervision of supervisors, and other applications of the alliance rupture framework outside of psychotherapy.Learn more about Catherine's work at: https://www.therapeutic-alliance.org/References:Bordin, E. S. (1979). The generalizability of the psychoanalytic concept of the working alliance. Psychotherapy: Theory, Research & Practice, 16(3), 252–260. https://doi.org/10.1037/h0085885Stiles, W. B., Glick, M. J., Osatuke, K., Hardy, G. E., Shapiro, D. A., Agnew-Davies, R., Rees, A., & Barkham, M. (2004). Patterns of alliance developmentand the rupture-repair hypothesis: Are productive relationships U-shaped orV-shaped? Journal of Counseling Psychology, 51, 81–92. http://dx.doi.org/10.1037/0022-0167.51.1.81Safran, J. D., & Muran, J. C. (1996). The resolution of ruptures in the therapeuticalliance. Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 64, 447–458.http://dx.doi.org/10.1037/0022-006X.64.3.447Follow Making Therapy Better on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/making_therapy_better/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/makingtherapybetter Twitter: https://twitter.com/therapybetter LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/91731994The intro and outro music is the Borromeo String Quartet performing Beethoven's "String Quartet No. 3 in D Major"www.makingtherapybetter.comSponsored by CarePaths EHR and Measurement Based Care

Jonathan Shedler, Phd is a clinical professor of psychiatry at the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF) and faculty member at the San Francisco Center for Psychoanalysis. He is author of numerous scientific and scholarly articles, and his article The Efficacy of Psychodynamic Psychotherapy won worldwide acclaim for firmly establishing psychoanalytic therapy as an evidence-based treatment. He has more than 25 years’ experience teaching and supervising psychologists, psychiatrists, and psychoanalysts.In this episode Jonathan and Bruce talk about what constitutes meaningful psychological change and whether or not randomized clinical trials of eight to sixteen sessions are actually relevant to real-world psychotherapy. Jonathan also discusses some of the evidence for psychodynamic therapy as an effective long term psychological intervention.Find out more about Jonathan and his work at https://jonathanshedler.com/References:Ormel J, Hollon SD, Kessler RC, Cuijpers P, Monroe SM. More treatment but no less depression: The treatment-prevalence paradox. Clin Psychol Rev. 2022 Feb;91:102111. doi: 10.1016/j.cpr.2021.102111. Epub 2021 Dec 11. PMID: 34959153. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34959153/Beutel, M., Rasting, M., Stuhr, U., Ruger, B., & LeuzingerBohleber, M. (2004). Assessing the impact of psychoanalyses and long-term psychoanalytic psychotherapies on health care utilization and cost. Psychotherapy Research, 14, 146-160.The intro and outro music is the Borromeo String Quartet performing Beethoven's "String Quartet No. 3 in D Major"www.makingtherapybetter.comSponsored By CarePaths EHR and Measurement Based Care

Edward R Jones, PhD is a clinical psychologist with years of executive leadership experience in the behavioral healthcare industry, including Vice President roles at Pacific Care Behavioral Health and Value Options. He has worked as a healthcare consultant in connection with both established and start-up companies. In recent years he has focused on health and wellness services, digital health services, and consultation to employers on the economic value of health and productivity.In this episode, Bruce and Ed talk about the future of behavioral healthcare, and how a new model of trained therapists integrated into the primary care system could help improve access to mental health services, as well as some of the potential pitfalls of the new age of digital therapeutics.The intro and outro music is the Borromeo String Quartet performing Beethoven's "String Quartet No. 3 in D Major"www.makingtherapybetter.comSponsored by CarePaths EHR and Measurement Based Care

Terri Moyers, PhD is a Professor in the Psychology Department at the University of New Mexico. Her research has focused on the active ingredients of empirically supported interventions for substance use treatments, particularly motivational interviewing. She also has an active line of research investigating therapist characteristics that support more favorable client outcomes. Dr. Moyers has more than 30 peer-reviewed papers in these areas, and has been a keynote speaker and workshop teacher in 11 countries.William R. (Bill) Miller, PhD is Emeritus Distinguished Professor of Psychology and Psychiatry at the University of New Mexico. Fundamentally interested in the psychology of change, he has published 65 books for public and professional audiences including texts on the method of motivational interviewing that he first described in 1983.Together, they are the authors of Effective Psychotherapists: Clinical Skills that Improve Client OutcomesIn this episode, Bruce talks with Terri and Bill about empathy as one of the eight skills that they have identified in their book as important for successful therapists. They discuss different understandings of empathy and how it relates to motivational interviewing. They also address the questions of whether empathy is an inherent trait or an acquired skill, whether it can lead to burnout, and the differences between empathy and compassion.The intro and outro music is the Borromeo String Quartet performing Beethoven's "String Quartet No. 3 in D Major"www.makingtherapybetter.comSponsored by CarePaths EHR and Measurement Based Care

Helene Nissen-Lie is a professor of clinical psychology at the University of Oslo and a practicing psychologist. She participates in a number of research projects in Norway as well as internationally, including collaborations with the University of Sheffield and the University of Chicago. She has published over 50 papers and articles, and her research interests include therapist effects, the therapeutic alliance, mechanisms of change in psychotherapy, and outcomes research, among many others.In this episode, Bruce talks to Helene about her research and her surprising finding that therapists who expressed more professional self-doubt, which they both agree may be better thought of as "professional humility" end up with better outcomes for their clients. They also talk about some of the applications of measurement-based care and the differences between the Norwegian and American systems of mental-health care.The intro and outro music is the Borromeo String Quartet performing Beethoven's "String Quartet No. 3 in D Major"www.makingtherapybetter.comSponsored By CarePaths EHR and Measurement Based Care

Robbie Babins-Wagner, PhD has contributed to the mental health field as a clinician, researcher, teacher, and manager. She is CEO of the Calgary Counseling Center, widely recognized as a leading institution in accessible, evidence-based, community mental health care. She is also an adjunct professor in the Faculty of Social Work at the University of Calgary, and serves on the board of directors for PolicyWise. She has conducted leading research on Counseling Outcomes, Social Finance, and Social Innovation, and has received several awards, including the University of Calgary Alumni Achievement Award and the 2017 Grant MacEwan Lifetime Achievement Award.In this episode, Bruce talks to Robbie about her experience directing the Calgary Counseling Center, specifically about her decision to make Measurement-Based Care mandatory for all clinicians employed at the center and the exciting results that are emerging from their efforts to track client outcomes.Learn more about the Calgary Counseling Center at https://calgarycounselling.com/Papers referenced:Goldberg, S. B., Babins-Wagner, R., Rousmaniere, T., Berzins, S., Hoyt, W. T., Whipple, J. L., Miller, S. D., & Wampold, B. E. (2016). Creating a climate for therapist improvement: A case study of an agency focused on outcomes and deliberate practice. Psychotherapy, 53(3), 367-375. https://doi.org/http://dx.doi.org/10.1037/pst0000060The intro and outro music is the Borromeo String Quartet performing Beethoven's "String Quartet No. 3 in D Major"www.makingtherapybetter.comSponsored By CarePaths EHR and Measurement Based Care

George Silberschatz, PhD is a licensed psychologist in San Francisco and has been practicing, teaching, and doing research on psychotherapy for over 40 years. He is a clinical professor in the department of psychiatry at University of California San Francisco School of Medicine, a past president of the North American chapter of the Society for Psychotherapy Research, and a past president of the International Society for Psychotherapy Research. He advocates for grounding practice in scientific evidence, as well as grounding research in clinical reality.In this episode, Bruce and George talk about the divide between researchers and practitioners of psychotherapy and what the two groups can do to help one another. They also discuss the importance of case formulation, and why flexibility is one of the most important characteristics a therapist can have.Learn more about George and his work at https://georgesilberschatz.com/The intro and outro music is the Borromeo String Quartet performing Beethoven's "String Quartet No. 3 in D Major" www.makingtherapybetter.comSponsored By CarePaths EHR and Measurement Based Care