Making Therapy Better

Dive into placebo effects in clinical trials, psychotherapy, and even conditions like Parkinson’s. Can a sugar pill really help someone heal? And what if it’s not just the pill, but the expectation of benefit, that drives the outcomes?In this episode, Dr. Bruce Wampold sits down with Dr. John Kelley, one of the world’s leading placebo researchers, to explore how belief, expectation, empathy and the therapeutic relationship profoundly influence outcomes in both medicine and psychotherapy. Plus, they unpack a groundbreaking study that not only changed how we think about placebo effects, but how we think about healing itself.👉 If you're a clinician, researcher, or just curious about the mind-body connection, this one’s for you.🧠 Featuring:John Kelley, PhD | Deputy Director of the Program in Placebo Studies & the Therapeutic Encounters, Harvard Medical School; Licensed Psychologist, Massachusetts General HospitalBruce Wampold, PhD | Emeritus Professor, University of Wisconsin - Madison; Author of The Great Psychotherapy Debate🔔 Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and share — and stay tuned for more deep dives into the science of healing.----The Making Therapy Better podcast is brought to you by CarePaths EHR, an electronic health records system designed to help you improve your therapy outcomes. (https://www.carepaths.com)----Follow the Making Therapy Better project!Website: http://www.makingtherapybetter.comYouTube: / @makingtherapybetterInstagram: ( / making_therapy_betterFacebook: / makingtherapybetterTwitter: / therapybetterLinkedIn: / 9223245----The Making Therapy Better podcast is produced and edited by Kevin Riordan and Geissy Araujo.Intro/outro music is by Chris Haugen and is free for public use.----#PlaceboEffect #Psychotherapy #Therapy #MindBody #JohnKelley #BruceWampold #Healing #Expectations #clinicalpsychology #HarvardMedicalSchool #PsychotherapyResearch #MentalHealth

In a dynamic conversation, Dr. Louis Castonguay, a renowned psychology professor, discusses the evolution of therapist training, advocating for an integrated approach over rigid CBT dominance. He highlights the importance of intellectual humility and interpersonal skills in training, stressing that diverse therapeutic methods can better address clients' needs. The dialogue also touches on the relevance of psychotherapy in today's society, arguing for a more holistic view that considers existential factors and fosters effective client engagement.

In this engaging episode, Bruce sits down with Dr. Julia Frank to discuss their collaboration on the newly revised edition of 'Persuasion and Healing,' a groundbreaking book on the science and philosophy of psychotherapy originally written by Julia’s father, Jerome Frank. The book has shaped generations of psychotherapists—including Bruce himself—and remains one of the most influential works in the field. Bruce and Julia delve into the rich history behind the seminal work, Jerome Frank’s unique background, the evolution of psychotherapy research, and the critical role of myth and ritual in therapeutic outcomes. This episode is essential listening for anyone interested in the fundamental principles that underpin the effectiveness of psychotherapy across various approaches.Julia Frank, M.D. is emeritus faculty at the George Washington University School of Medicine, director of the Five Trimesters Clinic for pregnant and postpartum women, and co-author of the 2025 edition of 'Persuasion and Healing: A Comparative Study of Psychotherapy.’ Bruce Wampold, Ph.D. is a leading psychotherapy researcher, developer of the contextual model of psychotherapy, and co-author of ‘The Great Psychotherapy Debate: The Evidence for What Makes Psychotherapy Work.’----The Making Therapy Better podcast is brought to you by CarePaths EHR, an electronic health records system designed to help you improve your therapy outcomes. (https://www.carepaths.com)----Follow the Making Therapy Better project:Website: http://www.makingtherapybetter.comYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@makingtherapybetterInstagram: (https://www.instagram.com/making_therapy_betterFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/makingtherapybetterTwitter: https://twitter.com/therapybetterLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/9223245/----The Making Therapy Better podcast is produced and edited by Kevin Riordan.Intro/outro music is by DELOSound and is free for use under the Pixabay Content License.----

Why haven’t psychotherapy outcomes improved in decades, despite hundreds of new treatment models and thousands of new randomized controlled trials?In this special episode of the Making Therapy Better podcast, renowned psychotherapy researchers Bruce Wampold and Scott Miller discuss how the field’s obsession with inventing and testing treatment methods may have distracted us from strengthening the relational skills that we know drive better treatment outcomes. Bruce and Scott explore why therapy outcomes have plateaued, what makes some therapists consistently more effective than others, and how clinical training must evolve to focus on measurable interpersonal skills.Bruce Wampold, Ph.D. is Emeritus Professor at the University of Wisconsin–Madison and among the most influential psychotherapy researchers alive today. Scott Miller, Ph.D. is the founder of the International Center for Clinical Excellence and a pioneer in improving clinical training through deliberate practice and measurement-based care.----The Making Therapy Better podcast is brought to you by CarePaths EHR, an electronic health records system designed to help you improve your therapy outcomes. (https://www.carepaths.com)----Follow the Making Therapy Better project:- Website: (http://www.makingtherapybetter.com)- Instagram: (https://www.instagram.com/making_therapy_better)- Facebook: (https://www.facebook.com/makingtherapybetter)- Twitter: (https://twitter.com/therapybetter)- LinkedIn: (https://www.linkedin.com/groups/9223245/)----The Making Therapy Better podcast is produced and edited by Kevin Riordan.Intro/outro music is by DELOSound and is free for use under the Pixabay Content License.----

Zac Imel, Ph.D., a professor at the University of Utah and co-founder of Lyssn.io, discusses the transformative impact of AI in therapy. He highlights natural language processing advancements that enhance psychotherapy and crisis counseling interactions. Zac speculates on how these tools can assist therapists in their professional growth and improve treatment outcomes by leveraging data-driven feedback. He also addresses the ethical challenges of integrating AI in mental health, emphasizing the need for balancing technology with human empathy.

Daisy Singla, PhD is a clinical psychologist, associate professor in the Department of Psychiatry at the University of Toronto, and senior scientist with the Institute for Mental Health Policy Research at the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health. She has led some of the largest clinical psychotherapy trials in the world, exploring methods for increasing access to mental health services in diverse cultures and settings around the world. She has received awards from the American Psychological Association and the Society Psychotherapy Research, and in 2018 she became the youngest ever recipient of the Pragmatic Clinical Study Award. In this episode, Daisy talks to Bruce about her work to increase access to mental health services in low-income communities around the world, including in rural India and Uganda. She explains how the task sharing model makes it possible to leverage the expertise of mental health professionals along with motivated trainees from local communities to scale up evidence-based treatments in high need areas. She also describes the training and supervision models they employ and offers her insights on how what she’s learned through this work can be applied in North America. Follow Making Therapy Better onInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/making_therapy_better/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/makingtherapybetterTwitter: https://twitter.com/therapybetterLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/9223245/The intro and outro music is the Borromeo String Quartet performing Beethoven's "String Quartet No. 3 in D Major" http://www.makingtherapybetter.comMaking Therapy Better is sponsored by CarePaths https://www.carepaths.com

Michael Garrett MD is professor emeritus of Clinical Psychiatry at SUNY Downstate Medical Center in Brooklyn, and previously served as medical director of the Department of Psychiatry at North Central Bronx Hospital, and Deputy Director of Psychiatry at Bellevue Hospital Medical Center in Manhattan. He is the author of Psychotherapy for Psychosis: Integrating Cognitive-Behavioral and Psychodynamic Treatment, which won Second Place in the American Journal of Nursing Book of the Year Award, Psychiatric and Mental Health Nursing Category. His clinical and academic work has focused on better understanding the experience of psychosis and how it can be effectively treated with psychotherapy.In this episode, Bruce talks to Michael about his experience working with clients exhibiting schizophrenia and other psychotic symptoms. Michael explains his understanding of psychosis as originating from a combination of biological predispositions and environmental factors and describes how his integration of both cognitive behavioral and psychodynamic approaches has helped numerous patients who would be considered untreatable by anything other than medication under the previous paradigm. He shares his hopes for the future of psychotherapeutic interventions for psychosis while recognizing that the field is still in the very early stages of understanding how to treat these extremely difficult cases.Follow Making Therapy Better on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/making_therapy_better/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/makingtherapybetter Twitter: https://twitter.com/therapybetter LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/9223245/The intro and outro music is the Borromeo String Quartet performing Beethoven's "String Quartet No. 3 in D Major" http://www.makingtherapybetter.com Making Therapy Better is sponsored by CarePaths https://www.carepaths.com

Jerome is a Professor of Social Work at New York University as well as a member of the American Academy of Social Work and Social Welfare, and has sat on editorial boards for the Clinical Social Work Journal and Evolutionary Psychology. He is the author of more than 300 publications appearing in journals in psychology, philosophy, psychiatry, psychoanalysis, and social work, and a number of books, including The loss of sadness: How psychiatry transformed normal sorrow into depressive disorder, which was named Best Psychology Book of 2007 by the Association of American PublishersIn this episode, Bruce and Jerome talk about the history of the DSM and psychiatric diagnosis, and Jerome’s working definition of mental disorder as a harmful deviation from biologically designed functioning. They also touch on the fact that a large portion of people who benefit from psychotherapy are not actually suffering from a diagnosable disorder. Jerome criticizes the current system that requires a diagnosis for insurance reimbursement and the difficult ethical situation this forces clinicians into. Finally, they discuss more generally the problems caused by the medicalization of mental health care and how to move forward.Follow Making Therapy Better onInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/making_therapy_better/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/makingtherapybetterTwitter: https://twitter.com/therapybetterLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/9223245/The intro and outro music is the Borromeo String Quartet performing Beethoven's "String Quartet No. 3 in D Major"http://www.makingtherapybetter.comMaking Therapy Better is sponsored by CarePaths https://www.carepaths.com

Nancy McWilliams, PhD is emerita visiting professor of Psychology at Rutgers University and a former president of the American Psychological Association’s Division of Psychoanalysis. She is the author of several books including Psychoanalytic Diagnosis, and Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy: a Practitioner’s Guide. She is the recipient of numerous awards, including the Rosalee Weiss Award, the Laughlin Distinguished Teacher award, and awards for Leadership, Scholarship, and International Academic Excellence from the APA Division of Psychoanalysis. She also maintains a private practice in Lambertville, New Jersey.In this episode, Nancy talks to Bruce about why she favors a psychoanalytic approach to treatment, and how this perspective informs her thinking about diagnosis and supervision. They discuss why psychoanalytic therapy is relevant to lived experiences of therapists and clients rather than simply an interesting historical artifact, as well as the place it might hold in the evolving landscape of mental health care.Follow Making Therapy Better onInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/making_therapy_better/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/makingtherapybetterTwitter: https://twitter.com/therapybetterLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/9223245/The intro and outro music is the Borromeo String Quartet performing Beethoven's "String Quartet No. 3 in D Major"http://www.makingtherapybetter.comMaking Therapy Better is sponsored by CarePaths https://www.carepaths.com

Dr. Raison is a professor of psychiatry and human ecology at University of Wisconsin-Madison, director of Clinical and Translational Research for Usona Institute, and Director of Research on Spiritual Health for Emory Healthcare. In addition, Dr Raison founded the Center for Compassion Studies at the University of Arizona. His research has focused on novel mechanisms involved in the development and treatment of major depression and on the physical and behavioral effects of compassion training. Recently, Dr. Raison has taken a leadership role in the development of psychedelic medicine, particularly as a treatment for depression. He has received numerous awards, including the Raymond Pearl Award from the Human Biology Association, and being named one of the most influential researchers in the world by Web of Science. His most recent book is The New Mind-Body Science of Depression. In this episode, Charles and Bruce talk about depression as a mind/body phenomenon, and as an evolutionarily adaptive response. Charles shares his thoughts on the present and future of psychedelic-assisted therapy and presents a number of different treatment models and frameworks for understanding why psychedelics are so effective at treating depression for some people. Follow Making Therapy Better on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/making_ther... Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/makingtherap... Twitter: https://twitter.com/therapybetter LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/917... The intro and outro music is the Borromeo String Quartet performing Beethoven's "String Quartet No. 3 in D Major" http://www.makingtherapybetter.com Making Therapy Better is sponsored by CarePaths https://www.carepaths.com