In this episode, Matt Abrahams, leading expert in communication with decades of experience as an educator, author, podcast host, and coach shares some of his top insights into strategic communication. He gives us a holistic explanation of what effective communication is, as well as dives into practical daily tips and techniques you can use in any conversation.As a Lecturer in Organizational Behavior at Stanford University’s Graduate School of Business, he teaches popular classes in strategic communication and effective virtual presenting. He received Stanford GSB’s Alumni Teaching Award in recognition of his teaching students around the world. When he isn’t teaching, Matt is a sought-after keynote speaker and communication consultant. He has helped countless presenters improve and hone their communication, including some who have delivered IPO road shows as well as TED, World Economic Forum, and Nobel Prize presentations. His online talks garner millions of views and he hosts the popular, award-winning podcast Think Fast, Talk Smart: The Podcast. He is the author of Think Faster, Talk Smarter: How to Speak Successfully When You’re Put on the Spot. His previous book Speaking Up without Freaking Out: 50 Techniques for Confident and Compelling Presenting has helped thousands of people manage speaking anxiety and present more confidently and authentically._________________________________________________________________________________________In this episode, he shares:How to craft a careful, concise, audience-centric conversation in any scenario (which, bonus, it reframes the conversation to take the pressure off of you, reducing your anxiety) The importance of narrowing your important points to the essentials, while putting the right structure around your conversation to make a conversation, not a presentation Practical, yet easy to implement tactics from his book that can transform your communication into being poignant and powerful _________________________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode1:13—Introducing Matt + The topic of today’s episode3:01—If you really know me, you know that...4:27—What is your definition of strategy?5:53—Can you give us your developed theory on communication?7:56—Could we talk about Step 2, "structures"?9:56—Can you explain improv (improvisational) speaking, and its benefits in business speaking?12:04—Can you give us some improv-based tactics that can help us navigate unexpected disruptions during our presentation, speech, etc.?14:15—Can you elaborate on your tactic of "chunking"?15:22—What can you tell us about the idea that "communication is the thinking"?17:22—How do you see AI changing communication as a communication strategist?19:37—Talk us about your ideas around calendar invites...21:19—How can people follow you and connect with you to continue learning from you?__________________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources: Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.coThank you to our guest. Thank you to our executive producer, Karina Reyes, our editor, Zach Ness, and the rest of the team. If you like what you heard, please follow, download, and subscribe. I'm your host, Kaihan Krippendorff. Thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Bob Muglia is a data technology investor and business executive, former CEO of Snowflake, and past president of Microsoft's Server and Tools Division. His rich background as a long-time leader in the tech space afforded him the unique position of being on the frontlines of the internet and related tech revolution. Bob is an advocate that while technology and strategy are important, it is critical to maintain keen awareness of that your people are the critical coupling between digital transformation and your company’s strategic initiatives. Bob also focuses on how innovation and ethical values can merge to shape the data economy's future in the era of AI and he serves as a board director for emerging companies which seek to maximize the power of data to help solve some of the world's most challenging problems_________________________________________________________________________________________In this episode, he shares:How a leader's role is to lay an effective strategic plan but in a way that empowers people own the idea like it's their own Fascinating insights into his years working with Satya Nadella, and how Microsoft from its inception leveraged partnerships for growth and competitive advantagePowerful tips on how you can grow non-core ventures and businesses even from within a slowly-growing company _________________________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode00:49—Introducing Bob + The topic of today’s episode2:05—If you really know me, you know that...3:45—What is your definition of strategy (and the benefit of the weekly meeting)6:02—Would you be able to characterize the approach to strategy in the Microsoft ecosystem, as you worked with Bill Gates, Satya Nadella and others? 9:18—You were part of the team that saw Satya Nadella's transition into CEO. What characteristics did he exhibit that made you feel that was the right choice?13:13—What can you share about the ecosystem and partnership strategy Microsoft adopted from early on?19:14—Could you expound on your views around artificial intelligence from a leadership perspective?21:31—Could you talk to us about how values play into the rise of AI and sophisticated machines?23:50—How can people follow you and connect with you to continue learning from you?__________________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources: Newest Book: https://www.thedatapreneurs.com/Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bob-mugliaTwitter: https://twitter.com/Bob_MugliaThank you to our guest. Thank you to our executive producer, Karina Reyes, our editor, Zach Ness, and the rest of the team. If you like what you heard, please follow, download, and subscribe. I'm your host, Kaihan Krippendorff. Thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Dear listeners, this week we celebrate our 100th episode. We want to take this opportunity to thank you for your support and listenership, as we treat you to a compilation of some of our favorite insights over the past years. Below you'll find a highlights reel broken down into clips in four categories:CLASSIC STRATEGY: Featuring Rita, McGrath, Richard Rumelt, John Hagel, and Mike Tushman who each share with us timeless ideas around strategy.LEADERSHIP, CULTURE & WORKFORCE: Featuring Adam Bryant, Ajay Banga, Sally Susman, Johnny C. Taylor, Tiffani Bova, and Elizabeth Altman, who each share critical insights into leadership, our employees, and the quickly changing landscape of the workforce.VALUE CREATION: Featuring Felix Oberholzer-Gee, Thales Teixeira, Pete Fader, and Mohan Subramaniam, who each share alternative and modern views around value creation.INNOVATION, TECH & THE FUTURE: Featuring Alex Osterwalder, Rob Wolcott, Vivek Wadhwa, and Faith Popcorn who each share with us insightful ideas around innovation, upcoming trends in tech and society, and the future of business._________________________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:34—Special Introduction to 100th Episode from KaihanCLASSIC STRATEGY2:57—Highlight from Rita McGrath: Strategic Planning Amidst Uncertainty5:24—Highlight from Richard Rumelt: Finding the Crux of Your Strategy7:01—Highlight from John Hagel: Why You Should "Zoom Out, Zoom In," and Scale From the Edge9:01—Highlight from Mike Tushman: Why Ambidextrous Organizations Outperform OthersLEADERSHIP/CULTURE/WORKFORCE10:52—Highlight from Adam Bryant: Good vs. GREAT CEOs—500 Interviews Reveal What Makes the Difference12:58—Highlight from Ajay Banga: Insights from a Former CEO with Ajay Banga of MasterCard15:11—Highlight from Sally Susman: Insights from Pfizer's Chief Corporate Affairs Officer in Crafting Public Discourse17:27—Highlight from Johnny C. Taylor: Trends You Need to Know About the Workforce19:27—Highlight from Tiffani Bova: Elevating Your EX to Improve Your CX21:01—Highlight from Elizabeth Altman: Rethinking the Definition of a Workforce in the Modern EraVALUE CREATION23:24—Highlight from Felix Oberholzer-Gee: Applying a Value-Based Strategy to Drive Your Business26:11—Highlight from Thales Teixeira: Decoupling the Customer Value Chain for Competitive Advantage28:36—Highlight from Pete Fader: Becoming a Customer-Centric Business30:49—Highlight from Mohan Subramaniam: The Future of Competitive Strategy and the Evolving Role of Data, Customers and Digital EcosystemsINNOVATION, TECH & THE FUTURE33:46—Highlight from Alexander Osterwalder: How Investing in Culture Ecosystems Leads to Innovation35:57—Highlight from Rob Wolcott: The Power of Proximity in your Strategy38:31—Highlight from Vivek Wadhwa: Harnessing Tech for an Innovative Future40:24—Highlight from Faith Popcorn: Predictions to Know From a Leading Futurist42:34—Closing and Thank youThank you to our guest. Thank you to our executive producer, Karina Reyes, our editor, Zach Ness, and the rest of the team. If you like what you heard, please follow, download, and subscribe. I'm your host, Kaihan Krippendorff. Thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Daniel Trabucchi is the co-author, with Tommaso Buganza, of Platform Thinking: Read the past. Write the future. He is Senior Assistant Professor at the School of Management of Politecnico di Milano where he fosters research and teaches at the intersection between innovation management and leadership, with a strong focus on platform thinking and the human side of innovation. He is the co-founder of Symplatform, the international symposium on digital platforms that aims to match managers and academics coming from various disciplines and he is the co-founder and scientific director of Platform Thinking HUB the observatory that aims to help established firms in finding innovation opportunities through platforms. Finally, he co-hosts with Philip Meier “Talking About Platforms,” the podcast where the latest research on platforms is featured and spread. His work has been featured by outlets such as Journal of Product Innovation Management, Technovation, Technological Forecasting and Social Change and many others, but he aims to make scientific research as accessible as possible, so—in addition to the book—his platform knowledge can be found also on Coursera in four courses under the title of “platform thinking."The idea of value creation has come a long way—where we used to think of providing value along a linear chain for stakeholders, platforms open up an incredible amount of possibilities in making customers and other stakeholders active participants—not only the end-receivers—of value creation. _________________________________________________________________________________________"This is the power of platform thinking. You've got the brand. You've got the customers. You've got resources. If you find the right idle assets in your organization, you could actually use platforms as a new way to perceive a value creation."-Daniel Trabucchi_________________________________________________________________________________________In this episode, he shares:The definition of a platform, and how it has changed over time—and how it expands past what we have all come to think of as the archetype of platforms, digital ones like Airbnb and Uber. Four types of platforms, and how the core of each one, despite their distinct differences, is to create value between users. How it’s not just the startups who can utilize platforms—established organizations have many assets to leverage in getting into the platform space How platforms offer the opportunity for business leaders to reevaluate their business model with fresh eyes, challenging traditional labels and considering alternate perspectives _________________________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode1:08—Introducing Daniel + The topic of today’s episode2:42—If you really know me, you know that...3:51—What is your definition of strategy?4:21—Let's start with the foundation—how do you define a platform?8:07—Could you describe the four types of platforms? 13:12—What are some of the mindset changes that need to happen for people to see these different ways to use platforms in value creation?19:04—What are the first steps to take in creating or plugging into a platform?Thank you to our guest. Thank you to our executive producer, Karina Reyes, our editor, Zach Ness, and the rest of the team. If you like what you heard, please follow, download, and subscribe. I'm your host, Kaihan Krippendorff. Thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Dorie Clark helps individuals and companies get their best ideas heard in a crowded, noisy world. She has been named one of the Top 50 business thinkers in the world by Thinkers50. She was honored as the #1 Communication Coach by the Marshall Goldsmith Leading Global Coaches Awards and one of the Top 5 Communication Professionals in the World by Global Gurus. She is a keynote speaker and teaches for Columbia Business School. She is the Wall Street Journal bestselling author of The Long Game, Entrepreneurial You, Reinventing You,and Stand Out, which was named the #1 Leadership Book of the Year by Inc. magazine. A former presidential campaign spokeswoman, Dorie has been described by the New York Times as an “expert at self-reinvention and helping others make changes in their lives.” She is a frequent contributor to the Harvard Business Review, and consults and speaks for clients such as Google, Yale University, and the World Bank. Forbes has declared that “her insights connect marketing, social media, communications, learning technologies, and personal discovery to give us a blueprint for success in the future economy.” She is a graduate of Harvard Divinity School, a producer of a multiple Grammy-winning jazz album, and a Broadway investor. _________________________________________________________________________________________"We are all being commoditized. But I think that what we can fight back with is relationships, and with brand equity. If you become a person that people wanna be around, if you are a person that people like enough, that they respect enough, then it doesn't matter that AI is nearly as good as what we are doing." -Dorie Clark_________________________________________________________________________________________In this episode, she shares:What Dorie’s definition of personal brand is—how it’s related to reputation, and what constitutes an effective brand Tactics you can use to assess your personal brand, and build a brand that really encapsulate you How you can craft and shape yourself and your career into virtually any role you’d like with some careful consideration and strategic decisions (feel free to cut this one out) How AI might expand in our organizations and things humans can do to remain relevant Why relationships and your personal brand equity will become a critical competitive advantage as we enter the era of AI and tech commoditization _________________________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode1:16—Introducing Dorie + The topic of today’s episode3:00—If you really know me, you know that...4:53—What is your definition of strategy?5:17—Can you define "personal brand," and characteristics of a powerful personal brand?6:50—How does one assess their personal brand?9:25—What are some tips on figuring out how to define your personal brand?13:50—What are the similarities between defining your business brand vs. your personal brand?15:09—Could you talk to us about why you decided to write The Long Game?17:16—In what way do you see work itself changing, the future of work?20:38—How can people follow you and connect wThank you to our guest. Thank you to our executive producer, Karina Reyes, our editor, Zach Ness, and the rest of the team. If you like what you heard, please follow, download, and subscribe. I'm your host, Kaihan Krippendorff. Thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

What questions are addressed in this podcast?What are aspects of Employee Experience (EX) that leaders often overlook with dire consequences on CX?Who in an organization should own EX?Are there tangible ways to measure EX vs. CX?What is the ROI of developing a more thought-out employee experience?_________________________________________________________________________________________Summary: Tiffani Bova is the global growth evangelist and business strategist at Salesforce, an author, and a keynote speaker. We were lucky enough to have Tiffani join us for a second time on this podcast, and in this episode, she brings us a new wealth of much-needed perspective. Where our last episode with Tiffani focused on the how to maximize your company’s Growth IQ—the 10 paths to growing your company—now we shift our focus to the internal movers of this growth—employees and the employee experience, also known as EX. Tiffani’s career taught her that without the people who make the Customer Experience, you can only get so far in fulfilling your brand promise. In her newest book, The Experience Mindset, she dives into how to complement your CX by revamping your EX.In this episode, she shares:A re-definition of EX (though not a new concept), including what it is not The specific, measurable impact EX can have on your future financial results How management often not only neglects the Employee experience, but actually makes it worse by offloading customer stress onto employees What kinds of metrics you can set around EX—which can often run parallel to and complement CX metrics _________________________________________________________________________________________"Let me just say to you that that strategy one-pager in that vision and value statement and your tagline does not show up and solve a customer problem. It does not show up and sell something to a customer. It does not show up and design a product. People do that, not the strategy deck that gets you funding from your board." -Tiffani Bova_________________________________________________________________________________________Action Items: If you'd like to put takeaways from this episode into action in your organization, we recommend starting here:Each time you make a change or implement a new initiative, ask yourself "What is the intended or unintended consequence to my people, to our employees? Are we setting them up for success to deliver on this change we're making for customer in order to increase that promoter score or customer satisfaction?"Develop a KPI for EX that correlates to and complements each CX KPIAsk your employees one simple tangible question relating to frictions for each task or initiative in weekly check-ins: "How easy on a scale of 1-5 was it to execute on this task?"_________________________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode00:56—Introducing Tiffani + The topic of today’s episode2:58—If you really know me, you know that...3:31—What is your definition of strategy?4:31—What prompted you to begin your research into the topic of Employee Experience (EX)?7:05—What were some of the unexpected findings in your researcThank you to our guest. Thank you to our executive producer, Karina Reyes, our editor, Zach Ness, and the rest of the team. If you like what you heard, please follow, download, and subscribe. I'm your host, Kaihan Krippendorff. Thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Michael Lenox is an award-winning professor, consultant, author, speaker, and podcaster. For over twenty-five years, he has been helping MBA students and executives navigate the competitive dynamics of markets in the face of innovation and disruption. He is the author of five books, including his latest, Strategy in the Digital Age: Mastering Digital Transformation (Stanford Business Books, June 27, 2023). Michael is the Tayloe Murphy Professor of Business at the University of Virginia’s Darden School of Business. He has served on the faculty at Duke and NYU and as a visiting professor at Harvard, Stanford, and Oxford. He holds a Ph.D. from MIT in Technology Management and Policy and a BS and MS in Systems Engineering from UVA. His Digital Transformation course on Coursera currently has over 150,000 students enrolled. He has had well over a half-million students across all of his online courses, making him one of the most popular teachers on Coursera. Lenox has extensive expertise on the topics most important to today's executives, from decarbonization to digital transformation. As a strategy consultant, he has helped numerous organizations devise effective strategies, such as General Motors, Dominion Energy, NASA, and the NCAA. As an online educator, he has helped millions of learners improve their strategic thinking and reasoning.In this episode, he shares:The core technologies that are thrusting us into digital transformation—and it's not the usual technology (blockchain, AI, automation), but the three foundational technologies that make such technologies possibleHow the number one source of competitive advantage—economies of scale—is changing in the age of platforms Why human decision-making will remain central to the equation even as AI automates and becomes more prevalent _________________________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode00:56—Introducing Michael + The topic of today’s episode2:40—If you really know me, you know that...3:28—What is your definition of strategy?4:03—What are the three fundamental technologies that impact digital transformation?6:38—How does competitive advantage change in light of how the sheer amount of data is changing?8:41—What are some misconceptions about competing in the platform age against platform titans?11:11—Can you talk about the deconstruction of the customer value chain?13:14—What are some of the positionings companies can take to stay competitive amongst platforms?14:39—Could you about the distinction between prediction and judgment, the concept from your book?16:55—Can you talk about some of the ideas you have around how newer technologies like AI are going to affect different industries, like pharma or utilities, for example?19:09—Can you talk to us about what phases a strategist should tackle to prepare their organization to lead in the digital age?21:15—How can people follow you and connect with you to continue learning from you?__________________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources: Personal page: Thank you to our guest. Thank you to our executive producer, Karina Reyes, our editor, Zach Ness, and the rest of the team. If you like what you heard, please follow, download, and subscribe. I'm your host, Kaihan Krippendorff. Thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Terence Mauri is the founder of the management think thank Hack Future Lab, a bestselling author and a visiting Professor at IE Business School. Terence challenges leaders to pivot from ‘wait and see’ to ‘explore and disrupt’ in a world of complexity and uncertainty. Terence says: ’Building a bold and resilient future never happens by accident. To sustain vitality for the long-term, we must have an eye on the future while searching every day for the upside of disruption.’ His recent publications include co-authoring Thinkers50’s Certain Uncertainty: Leading with Agility and Resilience in an Unpredictable World’ and Building Resilient Organizations: Best practices, tools and insights to thrive in ever-changing contexts.In this episode, he shares:What “unlearning” is and why its so important How excess bureaucracy and complexity are significant barriers for senior leaders to unlearn Why we must prioritize context over control, embrace autonomy and accountability, and foster cultures of curiosity rather than conformity Why companies should avoid the trap of overestimating the risk of trying something new while underestimating the risk of standing still_________________________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode00:55—Introducing Terence + The topic of today’s episode2:24—If you really know me, you know that...3:33—What is your definition of strategy?4:33—Can you talk to us about your concept of unlearning?6:59—What is the barrier that keeps organizations from implementing a culture of unlearning?9:24—Could you explain your concept of "concept over control"?11:18—What does a career ladder look like nowadays?12:25—Could you talk to us about the risk of standing still?14:14—Why do you believe we should we be planning from the future?16:26—How does one do the third piece of activating the urgency within your organization?18:03—How do you suggest companies move to a more decentralized org structure without the cognitive overload?20:20—What do you think is something people should know as a closing thought?21:01—How can people follow you and connect with you to continue learning from you?__________________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources: Personal page: https://www.terencemauri.com/Books: https://www.terencemauri.com/#bestsellersLinkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/terencemauriTwitter: https://twitter.com/terencemauriThank you to our guest. Thank you to our executive producer, Karina Reyes, our editor, Zach Ness, and the rest of the team. If you like what you heard, please follow, download, and subscribe. I'm your host, Kaihan Krippendorff. Thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Ralph Birchmeieir’s expertise is in accounting, finance, valuation, and strategy. He is a former partner at a global investment firm where he headed financial research into banks, insurers, and real estate concerns. He and his team routinely met with company managements, emerging fintechs, insurtechs and IT professionals. He also sat on two investment committees, constructing global equity portfolios in small cap and all cap strategies. Ralph retired at the end of 2018, taking time out to teach, volunteer, and to become more involved in private company investments. He was an advisor to a digital life distributor, an advisor for a fintech accelerator, and consulted in the AI health care space. He was also a member of Tech Coast Angels, one of the largest angel groups, where he participated in the due diligence process. His first investment book, Reasons To Pass, was published in early 2023. In previous roles he worked as a CPA at a tier one accounting firm, for a quantitative investment manager, obtained his Chartered Financial Analyst (CFA) designation and earned his MBA with honors from Columbia Business School. In this episode, he shares:The top four reasons investors might pass on investing in your company – that are particularly important for strategists to be thinking about. Why governance in an organization is so indicative of future success—and what specifically investors will be looking at when assessing your CEO or board or compensation or decision-making. He lays out some key strategic measures that strategists and management don’t typically think about – like asset liability mismatch – and why this can be a game-changer for a company What factors really matter when thinking about valuation of your own company _________________________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode01:15—Introducing Ralph + The topic of today’s episode3:42—If you really know me, you know that...4:11—What is your definition of strategy?5:18—Could you tell us a little bit about why you wrote Reasons to Pass?7:30—What should management be thinking about when it comes to corporate governance?11:55—Can you talk to us about as a strategist, what should I be thinking about with regard to asset liability mismatch?14:46—Can you talk to us about valuation, and making sure the messaging is appropriate for the market?17:39—Let's get into financial leverage...20:51—Let's recap the reasons to pass addressed in this episode...21:28—How can people follow you and connect with you to continue learning from you?__________________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources: Newest Book: http://cup.columbia.edu/book/reasons-to-pass/9780231556804Thank you to our guest. Thank you to our executive producer, Karina Reyes, our editor, Zach Ness, and the rest of the team. If you like what you heard, please follow, download, and subscribe. I'm your host, Kaihan Krippendorff. Thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Rob Cross has studied the underlying network dynamics of effective organizations and the collaborative practices of high performers for more than 20 years. Through research and writing, speaking and consulting, and courses and tools, Rob’s network insights are transforming the way people lead, work and live in a hyper-connected world.He is the Edward A. Madden Professor of Global Leadership, Babson College and co-founder and current research director of the Connected Commons, a consortium of over 100 leading organizations accelerating network research and practice.In his latest book, The Microstress Effect, co-authored with Karen Dillon, Rob delves into findings that show that our interactions with other people – even those we care most about – trigger an avalanche of small stresses that snowball to the point where it affects our personal well-being. This is a growing issue as companies move toward smaller teams and greater collaboration across teams. In this episode, he shares:What microstresses are and how they can impact the workplace and collaboration within teams The surprising effects that microstresses have on our health, mental state, and organizations’ effectiveness Why managers accidentally create microstresses by encouraging more collaboration … and what we can do about it Some specific tips we can all follow to reduce the negative effects of microstresses _________________________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode00:49—Introducing Rob + The topic of today’s episode2:30—If you really know me, you know that...3:21—What is your definition of strategy?3:47—Can you start by defining a microstress to us?5:54—Why do microstresses have such a lasting impact?7:55—Could you break down the different types of microstresses outlined in your book?11:16—What can an individual do to reduce the impact of microstresses?13:12—What do high-performing happy people do differently?14:51—Should we as leaders be looking to create moments of connection in org structure?18:45—Does mission or purpose allow us to coordinate behavior without requiring as much interaction between people?20:27—What do people get wrong about understanding microstresses?21:49—How can people follow you and connect with you to continue learning from you?__________________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources: Personal page: https://www.robcross.org/Newest Book: https://www.robcross.org/resources/books/the-microstress-effect/Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/crossrobTwitter: https://twitter.com/RobCrossNetworkThank you to our guest. Thank you to our executive producer, Karina Reyes, our editor, Zach Ness, and the rest of the team. If you like what you heard, please follow, download, and subscribe. I'm your host, Kaihan Krippendorff. Thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast