Michael’s new book How to Begin: Start Doing Something that Matters is now available at www.HowToBegin.com.‘We shape our buildings; thereafter they shape us,’ is a quote I often come back to. It reminds me that we’re creatures of the systems in which we exist. We are defined by our relationships, both inside and outside of work. The question I sit with is: What’s needed to find, carve out, and fight for freedom, justice, and dignity - not just for you, but more provocatively, for others? What do you do, when you uncover and decide to own your biases and prejudices? If you’ve ever worked in an organisation and thought that you could probably do a better job of getting or giving feedback, you may have heard of my guest: Kim Scott, author of Radical Candor, and a wonderful new book called Just Work. Get‌ ‌book‌ ‌links‌ ‌and‌ ‌resources‌ ‌at‌ https://www.mbs.works/2-pages-podcast/ Kim reads two pages from ‘Man’s Search For Meaning’ by Viktor Frankl. [reading begins at 10:50]Hear us discuss: The perpetrator versus victim perspective. [17:49] | Is freedom a double-edged sword? [20:06] | Owning and moving beyond victimhood. [22:50] | The public response to Just Work: “Bias is not meaning it, prejudice is meaning it, and bullying is being mean.” [24:06] | The proper response to having your bias interrupted: “You can’t do right if you don’t know what you’re doing wrong.” [27:25] | How effective is ‘cancel culture’?: “We are pattern makers, and we can change the pattern.” [29:13]

I had a few nicknames growing up; Flat Stanier after the book series Flat Stanley, which was shortened to Flat Stan, and eventually, just Stan. One of my best friends through high school and university was also a ‘Michael,’ and one of his early nicknames was Davros, a villain from Doctor Who, but in the end, Michael Bachelard just became Bach. Michael Bachelard is now an award-winning author and journalist. He’s a deputy editor and investigations editor at The Age in Australia - one of the country’s top 3 newspapers. Michael, like me, has come a long way, but, for him, that was always the plan. Get‌ ‌book‌ ‌links‌ ‌and‌ ‌resources‌ ‌at‌ https://www.mbs.works/2-pages-podcast/  Michael reads two pages from ‘Bliss’ by Peter Carey. [reading begins at 12:55] Hear us discuss: Being intrigued by the world: “If you’re not angry, you’re not looking, and if you’re not righteous, you’re not hoping to do something about it.” [21:09] | How to keep an open heart. [22:58] | Assembling the puzzle: an editor’s job. [29:13] | Staying on course: “Tell people what they need to know in the most compelling and transparent way you can.” [31:30]

One of my first business trips was to Scotland, and it was more like a nightmare rather than a dream come true. I was there because a big soup company wanted me to come up with their next soup sub-brand, and we all know that good stuff happens by finding a way to sit down and talk to people. I could have used Susan Weinschenk’s help back then because she is an expert in human behaviour and what makes us tick. She’s got a PhD in Psychology, has a number of books under her belt, including 100 Things Every Designer Needs to Know About People, and is the Chief Behavioral Scientist and CEO at The Team W. Susan calls herself a ‘science nerd,’ and she’s been like this since way back when. Get‌ ‌book‌ ‌links‌ ‌and‌ ‌resources‌ ‌at‌ https://www.mbs.works/2-pages-podcast/  Susan reads two pages from ‘Beyond Happiness’ by Ezra Bayda. [reading begins at 15:55] Hear us discuss: “You’ve got to own this story.” [9:10] | The idea of happiness. [20:04] | Understanding reality. [24:29] | Our cognitive biases. [27:51] | How to make better decisions: “Let your unconscious do its thing.” [30:55]

Briefly, at The Australian National University, I was a member of AIESEC, an international group of economics students. There were good moments, but I eventually had the realisation that these weren’t really my people; they just didn’t have a similar lens on the world, to me. So, I assumed that all economists were the same, until a few years ago when I read a wonderful book called Obliquity. It was wise, grounded, human, provocative, and had, at its heart, the insight that we rarely figure out - the hard, complex things - and it was written by an economist. After some time in academia, John Kay realised that he possessed a unique skill, one that was uncommon in the typical economist. John has already appeared on this podcast, featured as an author in someone else’s read. He’s a British economist, and truthfully, a philosopher. He is what a real influencer looks and sounds like. Get‌ ‌book‌ ‌links‌ ‌and‌ ‌resources‌ ‌at‌ https://www.mbs.works/2-pages-podcast/ John reads two pages from ‘The Secret of Our Success’ by Joseph Henrich. [reading begins at 11:15] Hear us discuss: The significance of social learning in the world: “You’ll never see two chimpanzees carrying a log together.” [16:52] | The process of shifting foundational beliefs: “It’s not that they’re worse people, it’s that the environment in which they operate has been a different one.” [18:12] | Finding inspiration and hope. [22:47] | Reducing polarisation. [24:39]

Where did we get this idea of ‘the youth will save us’? What a burden for them, and what a cop-out for us. Of course, young people can be brilliant, ambitious, and capable of extraordinary things … if we let them. However, we mustn’t forget that we, too, need to be a force for change. DeNora Getachew is the CEO of DoSomething.org, an organisation that helps youth engage for social impact, to make today and tomorrow better places. But the foundation for DeNora’s work doesn’t begin with youth, it’s more fundamental than that - it’s about democracy. Get‌ ‌book‌ ‌links‌ ‌and‌ ‌resources‌ ‌at‌ https://www.mbs.works/2-pages-podcast/ DeNora reads two pages from ‘Caste’ by Isabel Wilkerson. [reading begins at 14:10] Hear us discuss: Navigating inside and outside power. [23:13] | The tokenization of youth activism: “Activate young people to understand that democracy is for them, and that even if they distrust the system, they must learn how to leverage the system to get the change they seek.” [26:40] | What to stop doing. [30:21] | “Young people are unapologetic about being the beneficiaries of the change they seek in their lifetime.” [32:04] | A role model for activism. [32:35]

One of the influences on my life is a man called Simon Bailey. He was a visualiser; he’d show up with his box of coloured pens and paper, and as I tried to describe the ideas and solutions bubbling in my brain, he’d draw them. That would spark new ideas for me, which I’d try to build on, and we would do this dance of imagination and creativity together. I’m only realising this now, but he’s one of the ways I came to understand that one of the most powerful ways to show up in the world is to stay curious, just a little bit longer. Sarah Stein Greenberg is the Executive Director of d.school in Stanford, and the author of a wonderful new book: Creative Acts for Curious People. Her job, though, really is a paradox; to both unleash and contain creativity. But maybe that’s the nature of design, because in some ways, design is how creativity learns how to dance. Get‌ ‌book‌ ‌links‌ ‌and‌ ‌resources‌ ‌at‌ https://www.mbs.works/2-pages-podcast/ Sarah reads two pages from ‘The Sixth Extinction’ by Elizabeth Kolbert. [reading begins at 18:35]Hear us discuss: Resisting closure; sustaining a long hunch: “The ability to resist premature closure is one of the core skills you acquire with strong creative practice.” [26:09] | Productive struggle and uncertainty: “If you’re not having those moments of struggle, then you’re probably not working on something that is likely to result in something new, innovative, or meaningful.” [29:05] | Sitting with your feelings. [34:18]

At the ANU Law School, I wrote a thesis about applying English Literature theory to reading laws: ‘How have what we learnt about reading the texts in the world of Shakespeare, Patrick White, and Jane Austen, tell us about how we might read legal texts?’ No one understood it, I barely understood it, and I was writing the thing! I knew there was something there, but at the boundary where these two worlds met, I had a sputtering candle against the mist and darkness, and it didn’t throw much light. Tope Folarin is a far better navigator than I am. He’s a man who has crossed boundaries and transcends worlds; a creator and an author who has won numerous prizes for his short stories. Not only that, he’s also a leader in the world of social policy, being the Executive Director of the Institute for Policy Studies. These are different worlds, but Tope has found a way to contain multitudes. Get‌ ‌book‌ ‌links‌ ‌and‌ ‌resources‌ ‌at‌ https://www.mbs.works/2-pages-podcast/ Tope reads two pages from ‘The Half-Finished Heaven’ by Tomas Tranströmer. [reading begins at 13:40]Hear us discuss: “I am the place where creation is working on itself.” [15:17] | Surviving the pace and ambition of the material world: How to sit and wait. [18:51] |Finding the time to nurture creativity. [22:56] | How literature influences leadership: “I have walked in so many shoes, thought so many thoughts that don’t originate from my head, and when I’m sitting in front of people trying to articulate a new perspective, I can draw on these great ideas, thoughts, and emotions that I’ve gleaned from years and years of reading literature.” [24:20]

I’m an accidental entrepreneur. I started Box of Crayons about twenty years ago because I had just been fired from the job I had, and I was slowly coming to realise that I was largely unemployable - not because I didn’t have some skills, but because I wasn’t good with bosses and hierarchy. I’m also a barely-adequate entrepreneur. Both companies I’ve started have had some success, and just keeping a company going for twenty years is commendable. But I’m not going to be making an appearance on Shark Tank or Dragon’s Den anytime soon. The truth of it is that I don’t think I’m an entrepreneur at all. It’s too loaded and fancy a word, and sort of implies that I’m trying to create a billion-dollar business. Maybe I’m just confused - what is an entrepreneur, anyway? Seth Levine is a Silicon Valley venture capitalist, right at the heart of being and thinking about entrepreneurship. I think you’ll find Seth to be a little different from your typical Silicon Valley tech guru. Get‌ ‌book‌ ‌links‌ ‌and‌ ‌resources‌ ‌at‌ https://www.mbs.works/2-pages-podcast/ Seth reads two pages from ‘Technological Revolutions and Financial Capital’ by Carlota Perez. [reading begins at 16:08]Hear us discuss: “There are lots of people who have great business ideas, but don’t have the capital to start their businesses.” [25:00] | What makes a new founder? [26:00] | Finding the balance between purpose and profit. [28:52] | Misconceptions of entrepreneurship. [33:31] | Being a good ally: “A lot of people in power don’t think about their ability to affect other people by extending their network.” [36:33]

It irks me to confess this, but I am still in thrall to my to-do list. I’ve been writing about how not to be busy for 20 years, and I have thoroughly, completely, and annoyingly failed to take my own advice. The truth is, I get a rush from getting stuff done, and believe me, I’m aware of the irony. The thing people thank me for is not my tasking, but my thinking; figuring stuff out, me trying to make more complicated ideas more useful, more practical, more accessible, and I do that with a pen and paper, and a minute to think. How about you, do you do a good job at thinking, mulling, musing, playing, creating, exploring? If you’ve got that sorted, I salute you. I met Juliet Funt when she was speaking at a conference, and being a decent speaker and presenter myself, I’m always delighted when someone puts on a brilliant performance. Juliet put on that performance, and turns out she’s just as fun and smart off the stage, as she is on it. Get‌ ‌book‌ ‌links‌ ‌and‌ ‌resources‌ ‌at‌ https://www.mbs.works/2-pages-podcast/ Juliet reads two pages from ‘When Things Fall Apart’ by Pema Chödrön. [reading begins at 13:40]Hear us discuss: Softening and managing busyness: “We have been using busyness to numb and avoid softness.” [16:39] | The anxiety of getting unbusy: “Give yourself a structure, but write it in pencil.” [20:57] | Finding the work that matters: The thief of activity. [24:04]

I’m a reader. Not only do I love books, I love to read them in an old-school way: my eyes and the book’s pages in front of me. But, it occurred to me that the really old-school way of reading books is to be a listener. The truth is, some books just shine when they’re read out loud. David Gardner is the co-founder of The Motley Fool, the organisation that prides itself on the practice of conscious capitalism, a concept that seeks to elevate humanity through business. Get‌ ‌book‌ ‌links‌ ‌and‌ ‌resources‌ ‌at‌ https://www.mbs.works/2-pages-podcast/ David reads two pages from ‘The Pickwick Papers’ by Charles Dickens. [reading begins at 13:45] Hear us discuss: Bringing people together: “State what you stand for, live it, and fight against the things that undermine it.” [21:36] | Counteracting whitewashing. [26:24] | Balancing individual values and playing the bigger game: “The only ethical framework that makes sense is when everybody wins, not win-lose, or lose-win.” [29:12]