Sustain

Guest Tracy Hinds Panelists Richard Littauer | Ben Nickolls Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are very excited with our guest today, Tracy Hinds, who’s currently the CEO and Founder of Crow & Pitcher and serves as a CFO and board director at the Open Source Initiative. She’s also a long-time open source practitioner, maker, creator, and a powerful woman of glory, and has founded tons of different communities. Tracy is also a non-profit leader, a career transitioner, and a forever conflict manager. Today, we’ll learn more about Crow & Pitcher and the Community Committee (CommComm) in the Node.js Foundation. Also, we’ll hear Tracy’s thoughts on what she thinks the role is for Product Managers, Program Managers, and Project Managers in open source. Go ahead and download this episode to learn more! [00:02:05] Tracy tells us more about her journey to becoming the Founder of Crow & Pitcher. [00:04:25] Since Tracy was instrumental is the Node.js community for setting up Community Committee (CommComm), she tells us more about it. [00:09:25] Tracy mentions how having an understanding board is essential to the health of the organization. [00:12:51] We hear Tracy’s thoughts on how she feels about the role for Product Managers, Program Managers, and Project Managers in open source. [00:16:19] Ben wonders if there was any work within CommComm to try and create that separation and is that something Tracy thinks is more of a challenge within open source. Tracy explains the criticism about core contributors not being open to input. [00:19:58] We hear Tracy’s thoughts on what she thinks is the best way to talk to someone to let them know you want to be in a Project Manager role or Product Management role. [00:23:56] Ben wonders what can people do who are working in a code centric open source project, to make themselves and their work more open and amenable to people that come in a more product management or project management capacity? [00:27:24] Find out the difference between a Product Manager, Project Manager, and Program Manager. [00:30:47] Tracy tells us where you can follow her online. Quotes [00:08:12] “Everyone gets broken down by the amount of work and ambition in open source.” [00:11:07] “I kind of love when things get deprecated because one, it means people are paying attention enough to notice you don’t need these things anymore, and it means that things are still changing, and I think that’s an important sign in a project.” [00:14:06] “I think it’s really interesting to think of many open source projects as products.” [00:18:30] “Every project needs documentation and people being compensated for documentation.” [00:20:40] (On how to get a role as PM in OSS): “It helps to clarify a problem.” [00:21:13] “They need to build trust.” [00:25:02] “A lot of people have open source code projects, but not open collaboration.” [00:28:58] “You’re the goalie.” Spotlight [00:31:42] Ben’s spotlight is making a Swamp Cooler. [00:32:12] Richard’s spotlight is Bryan Hughes. [00:33:00] Tracy’s spotlight is her exposure to JSConf’s bringing her to where she is today. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse podcast@sustainoss.org Richard Littauer Twitter Ben Nickolls Twitter Tracy Hinds LinkedIn Tracy Hinds Twitter Crow & Pitcher Crow & Pitcher Twitter Node.js Community Committee (CommComm) Sustain Open Source Design Podcast Let’s Talk Docs Podcast Swamp Cooler Bryan Hughes Twitter JSConf Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Tracy Hinds.Support Sustain

Guest Cornelius Schumacher Panelists Richard Littauer | Ben Nickolls Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We’re very excited to have as our guest, Cornelius Schumacher, who works as the Open Source Steward at DB Systel, helping teams to successfully use and contribute to open source. Today, we’ll have discussions with Cornelius about what it means to be an Open Source Steward at DB Systel, what it means for the world of open source, and how he brings his extended history of working with KDE and other open source communities into this position. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more! [00:02:44] Cornelius tells us what he does as an Open Source Steward at DB Systel, how big DB Systel is, and how many people work under him. [00:07:18] Find out if Cornelius sees himself as being a civil servant or as being more enterprise based in terms of how his OSPO is situated compared to other OSPOs. [00:08:53] We learn how Cornelius’s journey and experience has been with license compliance over the last three years. [00:11:26] Ben asks Cornelius if there’s been a conversation about what’s been happening in the U.S. with the Biden administration’s security of open source and the supply chain security concept, and Richard wonders if the German Sustainable Open Source Fund is also included in that discussion. [00:14:07] We hear what environmental sustainability looks like for Cornelius. [00:20:12] Cornelius fills us in on the German group, the report they made, and how they think about autonomy. [00:21:28] We learn more about how Cornelius is interfacing with projects to make them more autonomous and sustainable, and how he’s helping the open source community at large through his work at Deutsche Bahn. [00:25:19] Richard brings up a blog post Cornelius wrote, and Cornelius talks more about how his journey has evolved. [00:30:38] Cornelius shares advice on what he would say if someone wanted to work in open source but they don’t have the free time. [00:33:18] Find out where you follow Cornelius and his work online. Quotes [00:15:19] “Still, software has a big influence on energy consumption, but also on how systems are designed, what you can do with them, and how much control you have.” [00:28:24] “I think we should pay people properly.” [00:28:53] “Exploiting people is not sustainable.” Spotlight [00:34:54] Ben’s spotlight is Flipper Zero. [00:35:45] Richard’s spotlight is Erasmus+. [00:36:29] Cornelius’s spotlight is NEdit. Links SustainOSS Sustain Podcast SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse podcast@sustainoss.org Richard Littauer Twitter Ben Nickolls Twitter Cornelius Schumacher Twitter Cornelius Schumacher LinkedIn Cornelius Schumacher Blog Cornelius Schumacher GitHub Cornelius Schumacher Wikipedia DB Systel Deutsche Bahn accelerates climate neutral target (Global Railway Review) First Ever Eco-Certified Computer Program: KDE’s Popular PDF Reader Okular Sustain Podcast-Episode 82: Steve Helvie and the Open Compute Project Sustain Podcast-Episode 49: What OpenUK Does with Amanda Brock & Andrew Katz Open Source Guide: Best Practices for Open Source Software Version 3.0 (bitkom) Don’t sell free software cheap by Cornelius Schumacher Flipper Zero-Kickstarter Erasmus+ NEdit Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Cornelius Schumacher.Support Sustain

Panelists Georg Link | Richard Littauer | Dawn Foster | Willem Jiang | Amanda Casari | Ben Nickolls Show Notes Hello and welcome to CHAOSScast Community podcast, where we share use cases and experiences with measuring open source community health. Elevating conversations about metrics, analytics, and software from the Community Health Analytics Open Source Software, or short CHAOSS Project, to wherever you like to listen. Today’s episode is a shared podcast between Sustain and CHAOSS. We have six panelists to talk about maintaining open source and we’ll also do a quick update from a previous episode and talk about what has changed and what maintaining open source looks like today. The panelists we have are Georg Link, Richard Littauer, Dawn Foster, Willem Jiang, Amanda Casari, and Ben Nickolls. Download this episode now to find out much more, and don’t forget to subscribe for free to this podcast on your favorite podcast app and share this podcast with your friends and colleagues! [00:00:38] The six panelists introduce themselves. [00:04:04] Richard details more about what Sustain is, Georg and Dawn explain CHAOSS and what’s going on there, and Amanda shares what she likes about CHAOSS. [00:13:15] Dawn talks about the kind of community members CHAOSS has, Willem tells us about the Asia community, and Ben shares his views on the Sustain community. [00:19:22] Georg asks if there’s been any updates on the funding situation in open source and if anything has changed there and Ben updates us. [00:22:34] When thinking about resources, who gets paid, how money flows, and how we identify when help is needed, Amanda wonders how that’s changed in the last few years in the CHAOSS community. [00:25:09] Richard shares from his angle what he’s seen about what has changed in the past two years in open source. [00:27:09] Ben shares his views on the supply chain conversation about who is making money in open source. [00:29:06] Since security is such a hot topic, Georg asks if we’re prepared in all the open source projects to really focus on this topic or if we have to upskill everyone, and we hear Ben’s thoughts on this. [00:31:02] Richard explains how you can get involved in Sustain happenings that are going on, and Georg and Dawn inform us about some projects, working groups, and other things going on with CHAOSS. [00:39:17] Find out where you can get involved with Sustain and CHAOSS. Spotlight [00:34:21] Georg’s pick is meeting with an online local group and doing cool things together. [00:35:06] Richard’s pick is going on a super long hike and buying a hydration pack (CamelBak Pouch). [00:35:56] Dawn’s spotlight is GraphiQL. [00:36:34] Ben’s spotlights are taking care of Swifts on his roof, and the book, Swifts and Us: The Life of the Bird that Sleeps in the Sky. [00:36:55] Amanda’s pick is the book, Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle. [00:38:03] Willem’s pick is ApacheCon Asia 2022. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse Sustain Podcast podcast@sustainoss.org CHAOSS CHAOSS Project Twitter CHAOSScast Podcast CHAOSS Community Participate podcast@chaoss.community Ford Foundation Georg Link Twitter Richard Littauer Twitter Dawn Foster Twitter Willem Jiang Twitter Amanda Casari Twitter Ben Nickolls Twitter Sustain Podcast-Episode 65: CHAOSS and Sustain: A Joint Podcast Ecosyste.ms xkcd Executive Order on Improving the Nation’s Cybersecurity (The White House) Sustain 2021 Event Report Mozilla-Open Source Archetypes: A Framework For Purposeful Open Source May 2018 SonarQube CamelBak Crux 3-Liter Water Reservoir GraphiQL Swifts and Us: The Life of the Bird that Sleeps in the Sky by Sarah Gibson Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle by Emily Nagoski, PhD and Amelia Nagoski, DMA ApacheCon Asia 2022 Working in Public: The Making and Maintenance of Open Source Software by Nadia Eghbal Support Sustain

Guest Ana Jiménez Santamaría Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have joining us as our guest, Ana Jiménez Santamaría, who’s the TODO Group OSPO Program Manager. Our conversations bring us to finding out how Ana got into open source, the history of the TODO Group, and she goes in depth about the OSPO Mind Map Project she’s working on and how you can contribute to it. Ana talks about some OSPO workshops coming up, she shares a vision for how OSPOs interact with the open source community, and what she’s doing with the OSPOlogy series. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more! [00:02:04] Ana unfolds how she got into open source. [00:04:31] We learn the history of the TODO Group and the context within the greater Linux Foundation ecosystem. [00:08:43] Ana details the OSPO Mind Map Project. [00:12:35] How does Ana deal with the needs of an OSPO? [00:15:37] Find out how you can contribute to the Mind Map. [00:18:18] There’s some OSPOs workshops coming up encouraging people to collaborate more, and Ana tells us more about them. [00:21:35] Ana explains adopting open source faster in the organizations in a healthier way. [00:24:48] We hear some ideas from Ana on how to engage with communities in a way that honors the original intent of the people who are working on those projects. [00:26:23] Justin asks Ana if Duane O’Brien from Indeed was involved in the talks with Spotify. [00:27:03] Ana shares a near future vision for how OSPOs interact with the open source community. [00:28:14] Richard asks if Ana has any thoughts on the long game for how we invest sustainably in our digital commons which involves open source. [00:30:23] We learn what Ana’s doing at OSPOlogy and TODO to help the third world. [00:33:58] Find out where you can follow Ana on the internet. Quotes [00:13:20] “Until compliance is covered, the organization cannot move forward.” [00:22:51] “What OSPOs are for is to put a strategy and alignment on top of all the open source efforts and to start building a healthy open source culture within the organizations to take real actions and start contributing back to the community.” [00:27:25] “If you don’t have a strategy on top of the open source efforts, if you’re just doing open source ad hoc, the organizations might be harming the open source ecosystem.” Spotlight [00:34:34] Justin’s spotlights are TypeScript ESLint and Learning TypeScript by Josh Goldberg. [00:35:03] Richard’s spotlight is Ruy Adorno, an awesome developer. [00:35:26] Ana’s spotlight is GrimoireLab from CHAOSS Project, and the tool Perceval. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse podcast@sustainoss.org Richard Littauer Twitter Justin Dorfman Twitter Ana Jiménez Santamaría Twitter Ana Jiménez Santamaría LinkedIn Kimetsu No Yaiba Opening 1-Demon Slayer Gurenge Full Band Cover (YouTube) Bitergia CHAOSScast Podcast TODO Group TODO Group Associates A New Framework for In-Person OSPO Workshops: TODO Group Seeks Collaborators OSPO ++ OSPO Zone OSPO Mind Map-TODO Group OSPOlogy: The Study of OSPOs (TODO Group) TODO (OSPO) Group-GitHub OSPO Mind Map Project-GitHub Sustain Podcast-Episode 104: Duane O’Brien and Mandy Grover on Investing in Open Source: The FOSS Contributor Fund TypeScript ESLint Learning TypeScript: Enhance Your Web Development Skills Using Type-Safe JavaScript by Josh Goldberg Ruy Adorno Twitter GrimoireLab Perceval Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Ana Jiménez Santamaría.Support Sustain

Guest Bolaji Ayodeji Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Ben Nickolls Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, our guest is Bolaji Ayodeji, who’s a Software Engineer, Content Creator, Community Engineer, and currently works as a Developer Advocate at Commerce Layer. Bolaji is a member of the Sustain community and has done so much with Open Source Community Africa (OSCA). Our conversations take us through learning how Bolaji got into open source, being a part of the OSCA community and the Sustain Africa session, and what OSCA is all about. We’ll also hear about the communities and companies that are part of OSCA, things we can do to help the next generation of open source contributors and developers from African nations, and Bolaji highlights two Sustain sessions that he thought were really cool and what he enjoyed most about them. Go ahead and download this episode now! [00:01:39] Bolaji tells us how he got into open source. [00:03:05] We learn how Bolaji ended up being a part of the OSCA community and how his experience was joining them. [00:04:20] At the OSCA event there was a giant Sustain track, so Bolaji talks about how that happened and what happened there. [00:09:04] Now that there’s been a few events that happened, Bolaji fills us in on how the conversation has been evolving, and he tells us about DataFest in Africa. [00:12:47] Justin talks about Bolaji’s blog and his tutorials around data science and he wonders if he’s giving any talks about data visualization and if there’s any organizations he’s working with that he can take their data and visualize it to the community. [00:15:30] We hear about the communities and companies that are part of OSCA. [00:18:21] Find out how many people came to OSCA this year, and how many people that attended are working on open source as part of their jobs or in addition to their jobs. [00:20:02] Bolaji shares his views on what we should be doing to ensure the next generation of open source contributors and developers from African nations are incentivized and able to join in that community and contribute. [00:23:16] Richard asks Bolaji if there has been a lot of buy-in about open source from other countries in Africa who’ve come to OSCA, is there a particular reason open source blossoming in Nigeria, and how is it being spread out to places like Ghana or other countries. [00:25:25] Bolaji explains if there’s anything large companies can do in developed nations to help the open source community in Africa. [00:27:22] What sessions was Bolaji most excited about at the Sustain meeting. [00:29:36] When we talk about documentation in OSCA, Richard asks if as a community, Bolaji talks in English or if there’s small subgroups which speak in languages also spoken by participants in open source. [00:34:51] Find out where you can follow Bolaji and OSCA on the internet. Quotes [00:26:37] “The same things that people in the western world have access to, Africans also working in open source should also be able to have access too without bias.” Spotlight [00:35:49] Justin’s spotlight is his Non-Code Contributor Newsletter. [00:36:21] Ben’s spotlights are a blog post by Abdulsamod Azeez on Contributing to Open Source as a Data Scientist, and a list of Open Source Data Science Projects you can contribute to by Aden Haussmann. [00:36:54] Richard’s spotlight is Heather Piwowar. [00:37:24] Bolaji’s spotlight is TypeScript Error Translator by Matt Pocock. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse podcast@sustainoss.org Richard Littauer Twitter Justin Dorfman Twitter Ben Nickolls Twitter Bolaji Ayodeji Twitter Bolaji Ayodeji LinkedIn Bolaji Ayodeji website Commerce Layer Open Source Community Africa Sustain Africa 2022 Community Report DataFest Africa 2022 Sustain Podcast-Episode 122: A conversation with Stefano Maffulli of the OSI The Non-Code Contributor- Issue #35 Contributing to Open Source as a Data Scientist by Abdulsamond Azeez Open-Source Data Science Projects You Can Contribute to Today by Aden Haussmann Heather Piwowar Twitter TypeScript Error Translator-Git Hub Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Bolaji Ayodeji.Support Sustain

Guest Anita Ihuman | Atinuke Oluwabamikemi Kayode Panelists Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we’ll be talking to two guests who are a part of the Open Source Community Africa (OSCA), which has a conference every year or so in Nigeria, where a lot of people come together. We’ve invited people who facilitated workshops at this event to talk about what they facilitated, what they’re interested in as far as sustaining open source, and to share their personal story. Our first guest is Anita Ihuman, who’s a Developer, an Advocate for open source, and an open source contributor. We also have Atinuke Oluwabamikemi Kayode (Bami), who’s a Python Developer as part of OSCA, a Community Manager at Tunga and Layer5, and she helped facilitate a workshop on Burnout and Mental Health at the last Sustain event. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more! Anita: [00:02:23] Anita shares her story how she got involved with open source and how she got to where she is today. [00:06:05] At OSCA, Anita was asked to facilitate the open source documentation workshop as part of the Sustain group, and she fills us in on how it went and how many people were at the workshop with her. [00:08:25] Anita wrote a blog explaining ten steps for the approach people can take to build better documentation, and she highlights a few of them. [00:13:36] We hear how engineers can get help to get better at documentation. [00:14:42] At the end of the blog post, Anita talked about how we can sustain open source communities and projects through documentation, and she shares her thoughts on the three main points. [00:17:20] Find out what’s next for Anita and where you can find her online. Bami: [00:20:18] Bami shares what she does as a Community Manager at Tunga and Layer5. [00:21:56] We hear how Bami ended up at OSCA and how she ended up in the Sustain track as the facilitator for this session talking about burnout. [00:25:53] Find out how the role of self-awareness plays in burnout, and the role that companies in the ecosystem play in stopping burnout for maintainers and developers. [00:32:19] Bami tells us about setting boundaries which are super important. [00:35:01] Find out where you can follow Bami on the internet and she shares advice on the importance of taking time for yourself and communicating to others. Quotes Anita: [00:06:21] “I was able to attend and learn so much, and it made me realize that I could actually teach.” [00:06:53] “Do you actually read documentation for a project? And I found that so many people don’t. And the reason is that it’s either out of date or it’s not informative enough.” [00:15:02] “[We should] put together a standard for documentation for every open source project.” Bami: [00:27:23] “We have to rest at some point and it’s okay to have that rest.” [00:31:11] “If the community is not healthy, contributors will not come back.” [00:31:19] “How do you want to sustain open source software if the communities are not healthy? So, it is important that organizations take effort in helping, in creating awareness of how to handle mental health because we know mental health burnout is inevitable.” Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse podcast@sustainoss.org Anita Ihuman Twitter Anita Ihuman LinkedIn Anita Ihuman website Open Source Community Africa-Sustain Africa 2022 Community Report Scalable Onboarding Let’s Talk Docs Podcast justindorfman@gmail.com Atinuke Oluwabamikemi Twitter Atinuke Oluwabamikemi Kayode LinkedIn Atinuke Oluwabamikemi Kayode website CHAOSS Tunga Layer5 OSCA Report: Burnout and Mental Health Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Anita Ihuman and Atinuke Oluwabamikemi Kayode.Support Sustain

Guest Per Ploug Krogslund Panelists Richard Littauer | Ben Nickolls Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Our guest today is Per Ploug Krogslund, who’s the Open Source Tech Lead at Spotify. He’s with us to talk in-depth about the FOSS Fund he’s setting up with Spotify, to pay maintainers of independent projects and give back to open source developers. Go ahead and download this episode now to hear more! [00:01:30] Per tells us his background, how he got involved with Spotify and open source, and he tells us about the OSPO office at Spotify. [00:05:46] Ben wonders how the conversation evolved in Spotify about how an OSPO would work there and how he got to be the one person that’s representing the OSPO. [00:09:47] Per explains the FOSS Fund he’s setting up to give back to open source. [00:11:50] Richard wonders what Per is doing to make sure that the participation is authentic and aligns to the values of the people who are in those projects beforehand so that he doesn’t come off as an extractive corporate company. [00:14:22] What is Per doing to make sure there’s enough governance set up where the money is being used with the project to make developer’s lives happy? [00:15:55] Find out how people working at Spotify are involved in the process of deciding who’s going to receive what they’re supposed to receive, and Per tells us how he’s thinking about next year looking at the success of the program he’s setting up this year. [00:21:14] When Per is having conversations in Spotify about what the FOSS Funds look like in terms of money, we find out if there’s any other investments that are competing alongside that. Also, is InnerSource a thing inside Spotify? [00:24:41] Per explains what’s going on with diversity of projects right now and if there’s any thoughts deeper down the dependency stack and helping projects. [00:28:02] Richard wonders if Per’s supporting projects which go towards Spotify’s larger goals in the long run of different markets and different technologies ensuring faster transmission, and if he’s thinking about the dependencies which he will have in the future and supporting those ecosystems as opposed to individual projects. [00:32:56] In terms of degrowth and the possibility of having a sustainable Spotify, Richard asks Per’s thoughts on if there’s any room to talk about open source policy. Ben shares his thoughts on a possible direction to take with a cooperative community based project. [00:39:20] Find out where you follow Per on the web. Quotes [00:10:06] “We’re trying to just have a fair relationship with the people we depend on.” Spotlight [00:39:50] Ben’s spotlight is fs Timer. [00:40:35] Richard’s spotlight is Jim Kang and his project, GODTRIBUTES. [00:41:24] Per’s spotlight is a Spotify project, Basic Pitch. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse podcast@sustainoss.org Richard Littauer Twitter Ben Nickolls Twitter Per Ploug Twitter Per Ploug LinkedIn Spotify for Developers Spotify Sustain Podcast-Episode 71: Hong Phuc Dang, founder of FOSSAsia, on how to build communities across boundaries Sustain Podcast-Episode 121: FOSS Backstage 2022 with Cornelius Schumacher, Yadira Sánchez Benítez & Thomas Fricke Sustain Podcast-Episode 120: FOSS Backstage 2022 with Rich Bowen & Paul Berschick Sustain Podcast-Episode 119: FOSS Backstage 2022 with Ana Jiménez Santamaría and McCoy Smith Sustain Podcast-Episode 118: FOSS Backstage 2022 with Florian Gilcher & Silona Bonewald Spotify Says It Paid $7 Billion In Royalties In 2021 Amid Claims Of Low Pay From Artists (Forbes) Announcing the Spotify FOSS Fund (Spotify R&D) fs Timer Jim Kang Website GODTRIBUTES Basic Pitch Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Per Ploug Krogslund.Support Sustain

Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Ben Nickolls | Amanda Casari Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today’s episode is all panelists, no guests, and our conversations are focusing on the question, “What does sustaining open source actually mean?” Each of the panelists share their opinions, give feedback, and tell stories around sustaining open source. We’ll also learn the origins of SustainOSS, the definition of a “sustainer,” and we hear about the OSCA Sustain Community Report 2022 that recently came out and gave Justin chills just reading it. Go ahead and download this episode now, and if you have any thoughts you would like to share, please email us! [00:01:30] Justin gives us the backstory of how Sustain started. [00:06:14] Since Ben came up with the definition of a “Sustainer” he goes in depth what it means. [00:10:05] Amanda poses a question when we think about sustaining, how do we think about helping with graceful endings and exits? [00:17:42] Richard tells us sustaining is figuring out and having an ecosystem level approach of what open source is, and what’s needed now. Justin shares a story about Chad Whitacre changing the game when it came to donating to open source. [00:20:53] Ben takes the conversation away from money and talks about Open Collective and finding a way to sustain the work without money. [00:22:47] Richard brings up the environmental sustainability of open source as an entire thing and how the environmental cost of training AI is massive. [00:26:04] Richard mentions he finds interesting what sort of conversations happened on an ecosystem level between all the participants and all the stakeholders, and Amanda expresses a concern she has. Richard and Amanda talk about giving honor to people who do honorable things. [00:29:45] We hear some open questions from Richard about what he thinks is what sustaining means now, and Amanda talks about the concept around open source sustainability that a lot of people are focusing on. Quotes [00:09:51] “Forking is not a threat, it’s a promise.” [00:11:36] “The whole sustainability thing is about a combination of incentives and market failures.” [00:13:24] “Two researchers from South Africa have been looking at contributions to internet standards over the past twenty years from across the world, largely from within Africa, and they’ve seen a massive peak in 2005, and then it’ll die off.” [00:16:24] “Open source is a jellyfish and jellyfish of course have many eyes.” [00:29:34] “Honoring people for their work and giving them visibility, making sure that they’re seen is a great step forward that we can all be working on because that’s definitely a gap that still exists.” [00:31:06] “The xkcd comic showing digital infrastructure as one small person in Kansas is great, but it ignores every other block in that comic. Who is funding the blocks in those comics, who has governance to it, who was maintaining it, what are their intentions, and what is their final destinations that they want to be going to?” Spotlight [00:36:48] Justin’s spotlight is recognizing a Non-Code Contributor, Erin McKean and his newsletter that comes out a couple times a month. [00:37:11] Ben’s spotlight is Play Monikers. [00:37:59] Amanda’s spotlight is the Elevator Saga game. [00:38:40] Richard’s spotlight is Nicole Kelner, who’s a climate artist. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse podcast@sustainoss.org discourse@discourse.sustainoss.org Richard Littauer Twitter Justin Dorfman Twitter Ben Nickolls Twitter Amanda Casari Twitter Sustain 2021 Event Report SustainOSS Report 2017 (with definition of “sustainer”) OSCA-Sustain Africa 2022 Community Report Sustain Podcast-Episode 96: Chad Whitacre and how Sentry is giving $150k to their OSS Dependencies Sovereign Tech Fund Fuligo septica The Non-Code Contributor Newsletter by Justin Dorfman Play Monikers Elevator Saga Elevator Saga-GitHub Nicole Kelner Twitter Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Support Sustain

Guest Marie Kochsiek | Hélène Martin Panelists Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to a special episode of Sustain/GitHub Maintainer Month, which is a short series of podcasts where we’re focusing on maintainers of open source, what they do with their experience, and how they contribute to the sustainability of their projects. Our first guest is Marie Kochsiek, who’s a developer and one of the maintainers of drip, a menstrual cycle and fertility tracking app. Marie goes in depth about the drip app, challenges she has as a maintainer, and since the supreme court repealed Roe v. Wade, she shares advice on what people can do with their menstruation trackers to stay safe. Our next guest is Hélène Martin, who’s the CTO of ODK, a platform for offline data collection that’s used by organizations like Red Cross. We’ll hear about ODK’s funding model, how Hélène has transitioned their governance strategy, we learn about their funding model, and she shares advice to maintainers who want to go to a higher level with their projects in open source. Go ahead and download this episode now! Marie: [00:01:19] Marie explains the drip app and how she ended up working on this project. [00:03:21] We find out how large the community is working on drip and how many users there are. [00:05:37] Since there are a lot of period tracking apps out there, Marie fills us in on how drip is different from other things out there. [00:08:16] Marie talks about some hurdles she overcame recently with her team. [00:10:06] We learn why Marie works on open source with her free time and what she does for her main work to work on this stuff. [00:11:51] What advice does Marie wish people would have given her when she first started out coding to make it easier. [00:13:28] Find out where you can contribute to her project. [00:16:00] With Roe v. Wade being overturned, Marie shares advice what people should do with their menstruation trackers. Hélène: [00:21:26] Hélène tells us what ODK is and how many users it has. [00:23:40 ] We learn how Hélène views herself as a maintainer of that ODK’s software and what it means for her. [00:24:42] In the past one and a half years Hélène transitioned her governance strategy, so she expands on what she transitioned to and why. [00:27:51] Richard wonders if Hélène’s source code has ever been forked, cloned, or if anyone has ever made their own company out of it. [00:29:38 ] We hear about ODK’s funding model and where they get their money to keep the work going. [00:30:13] Since we’ve heard the direction Hélène has taken with governance, Richard wonders how she has led that change as a CTO. Also, she tells us if she’s still getting into the weeds and writing commits. [00:34:47] Hélène shares advice for maintainers who are realizing they need to go to a higher level of abstraction to grow the projects they’re in. [00:37:33 ] If you want to read along and join the ODK community, find out where you can go to get involved, and where you can follow Hélène on the web. Quotes Marie: [00:08:35] “The best work we achieve is when we work on stuff collectively.” [00:10:53] “Open source work is also community work.” [00:12:03] “Things can take time.” Hélène: [00:28:16 ] “We think the pie is big enough.” [00:31:23] “I think it’s hard to jump between levels of abstraction.” [00:33:08 ] “I really think there are modes, and any given project can switch between them over time.” [00:34:48 ] “It’s really important to realize that there’s no one way to do open source.” [00:36:16] “A lot of times when people talk about open source, I think they mean the source is open AND.” Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse Sustain Podcast Invite Details podcast@sustainoss.org Richard Littauer Twitter Marie Kochsiek Twitter drip drip, the open-source cycle tracking app-GitHub drip-GitLab Hélène Martin Twitter Hélène Martin GitHub ODK Twitter ODK Hélène's profile on the ODK forum Credits Produced by Richard Littauer] Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Hélène Martin and Marie Kochsiek.Support Sustain

Guest Mike McQuaid | Nina Breznik Panelists Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to a special episode of Sustain, where we interview Maintainers as part of GitHub Maintainer Month! On this episode, Richard is interviewing a few open source maintainers to talk about what it’s like to be a maintainer, how awesome they are, and what issues they may have being a maintainer. My first guest is Mike McQuaid, who works for GitHub and is one of the maintainers of Homebrew. Mike tells us all about Homebrew, how you can contribute, and the most fun thing about being a maintainer there. Also joining me is Nina Breznik, another awesome maintainer, Founder of RefugeesWork, Partner and Open Source Developer at Playproject, Community Organizer at Wizard Amigos, and she works on a DatDot project with serapath. Nina shares how it is for her being a maintainer, how she helps other people see it as art, not just science and math, but a more creative thing, and she tells us the project she had the most fun working on. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more! Mike: [00:00:48] Mike explains what Homebrew is, the size of the community, and the usage. [00:01:46] How did Mike come to maintain Homebrew and the other twenty people and how did he pivot and make the switch elegantly? [00:04:08] Richard asks if Mike has any resources he can suggest to other maintainers. [00:05:04] Mike talks about burnout and when he works on Homebrew. [00:07:19] Mike shares advice to a first time open source person, and he tells us what advice he wishes someone had given him back in the day. [00:09:00] We learn from Mike the most fun thing about being a maintainer at Homebrew. [00:09:47] Find out how you can contribute to Mike’s project and where you can follow him on the web. Nina: [00:11:48] We have Nina joining us now and Richard shares her bio with us. We also hear what Nina is maintaining these days and what her code looks like. [00:14:41] Nina tells us about the number of projects she maintains in the sense of commit access and the size of the community that she’s working with. [00:17:30] Find out the hardest part for Nina when it comes to maintaining code. [00:18:47] Nina shares more about the RefugeesWork project she started which was the most magical experience for her. [00:21:36] What is Nina most looking forward to over the next five to ten years as a maintainer and what does she want to see happen with her work? [00:22:57] Nina shares what she wishes people had told her to make it easier for her when she first started coding. [00:24:27] We learn what Nina does in her community to ensure that designers or tech writers, etc., feel involved in the projects she works on. [00:27:15] Find out where you can follow Nina and her projects on the web. Quotes [00:01:59] “The best way to get involved with open source was solving a problem I had for myself.” [00:04:23] “Everything we do breaks down to human relationships and managing those and trying to have an environment where people are happy with each other.” [00:07:19] “What advice would you give to a first-time open source person? I think just strict boundaries.” [00:20:34] “I transitioned from social sciences and arts into coding because I wanted to get a skill. I wanted to be able to build something on my own and this was the first time I felt the power that I built something.” [00:21:45] “I would love to see more people learning to code, which is one of the reasons why I started Wizards Amigos Project because I feel that this really is literacy of the future.” [00:23:06] “They should have told me this is not all about math, but more like art.” Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse podcast@sustainoss.org Richard Littauer Twitter Mike McQuaid Twitter Mike McQuaid Website Homebrew Sustain Podcast-Episode 117: Mike McQuaid of Homebrew on Sustainability Working on OSS Projects Nina Breznik Twitter serapath Twitter Google Summer of Code 2022 Program Announced Rails Girls Wizard Amigos DatDot Dat Ecosystem Mathias Buus Ok Distribute Blog Dat Foundation Governance Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Mike McQuaid and Nina Breznik.Support Sustain