Sustain

Richard J. Acton, a research data outputs manager at the Human Developmental Biology Initiative, discusses his innovative checklist designed to enhance software reproducibility. He dives into the importance of open science, addressing challenges like academic demands and the need for better citation practices. Acton highlights how this checklist can boost academic recognition and facilitate collaboration within research communities. He also emphasizes the role of funders and publishers in supporting openness in scientific research.

Guest Qianqian Ye Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode of Sustain, Richard hosts a conversation with Qianqian “Q” Ye, an artist, creative technologist, and educator who recently led the p5.js project, an open-source JavaScript library designed to prioritize accessibility and diversity in learning to code. Q shares her journey from an architectural background to contributing and eventually leading p5.js, a library created by artists for artists with a strong focus on visual feedback and accessibility. They discuss the importance of decentralizing leadership, setting boundaries to avoid burnout, and empowering contributors to ensure the project's sustainability. Key topics include the role of care work in open source, the community-driven evolution of p5.js, and strategies for maintaining a collaborative and inclusive environment. Q also highlights the significance of providing clear documentation and recognizing all forms of contributions to foster a welcoming community. Press download now to hear more! [00:001:01] Q explains what p5.js is and how it teaches people to code. [00:02:11] Q shares her journey from former architect turned creative technologist and highlights her community progression through translation and outreach. [00:04:19] Why is p5.js different? Q emphasizes the output is art, not code, making it more inclusive and intuitive for beginners. [00:05:40] Richard inquires about the p5.js community and contributors and Q tells us there are 700-800 contributors officially recognized. [00:06:33] Q elaborates on the relationship with the Processing Foundation. P5.js operates semi-independently under its support, and she talks about the staff size for p5.js. [00:07:49] Q believes the traditional open source volunteerism is problematic and the Sovereign Tech Agency provided funding to support mentors and contributors. [00:09:19] Q’s essay “Care Work in OSS” explores the invisible labor behind software projects and advocates for recognizing emotional labor and decentralized decision making. [00:10:15] We hear about the rotating leadership and inclusivity and how documentation and mentorship is the key to smooth transitions. [00:13:18] Q talks about the translation stewardship with a decentralized structure with language-specific stewards and using inclusive onboarding and translations. [00:15:31] Richard questions preventing burnout in stewards and Q elaborates how p5.js handles this and why access includes joy and inclusivity. [00:18:05] We hear how decisions about feature acceptance are made through community review and discussions, as well as how some users challenged the access-first policy. [00:20:15] Balancing art and community is discussed here as Q clarifies that open source and the arts often conflict due to individualism vs. collectivism. [00:21:48] How does Q help the open source community learn and give credit to other people well all the time? She gives routine shoutouts in release notes, social media, and seeks to credit all contributions, not just code. [00:24:48] Q shares how she deals with emotional burnout and boundaries and tips for setting boundaries. [00:28:18] What’s next for Q? She’s returning from maternity leave as Manager of Community and Partnerships for the Processing Foundation, and focus on building relationships and discussing sustainable funding at UN Open Source Week. [00:29:32] Find out where you can follow Q and p5.js on the web. Quotes [00:08:00] “I strongly believe that the volunteer-based model in open source is very problematic, and I’ve been trying to experiment different ways on doing thing alternatively.” [00:09:55] “OSS appears faceless, but there are so many people behind OSS.” [00:11:17] “Creators and maintainers of OSS carry bias of their own when they maintain the software.” [00:16:20] “Having to say no helped us to clarify the vision for the p5.js project.” Spotlight [00:30:01] Richard’s spotlight is the book, Things Become Other Things by Craig Mod [00:30:50] Q’s spotlight is two contributors, Dave Pagurek and Kenneth Lim. Links SustainOSS podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon SustainOSS Bluesky SustainOSS LinkedIn Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Qianqian Ye LinkedIn Qianqian Ye Website p5.js p5.js Access Statement All Contributors Processing Foundation Sovereign Tech Agency Lauren Lee McCarthy Making p5.js by Lauren Lee McCarthy UN Open Source Week 2025, NYC, June 16-20 Things Become Other Things by Craig Mod P5.js 2.0 and an open source philosophy by Dave Pagurek Designing an addon library system for p5.js 2.0 by Kenneth Lim Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Qianqian Ye.Support Sustain

Guest Federico Mena Quintero Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this special Maintainer Month episode of Sustain, host Richard Littauer chats with Federico Mena Quintero, a foundational GNOME hacker and board member. Federico shares his journey from learning image processing in high school, becoming a key contributor to the GIMP project, and founding the GNOME desktop environment. He discusses the historical context, challenges, and achievements of GNOME and open source development. The conversation delves into the importance of maintaining infrastructural software, adapting to new technologies like the Rust programming language, and the socio-economic factors influencing the open source community's demographics. Press download now to hear more! [00:01:29] Federico describes GNOME as the “surface of your desk”- the visual and interactive layer of the Linux desktop. [00:02:16] Federico started writing image processing programs in high school and discovered GIMP (GNU Image Manipulation Program) and began contributing plugins. Encouraged by positive feedback, he continued developing filters and building community resources. [00:10:20] The proprietary Motif GUI toolkit used by GIMP prompted the creation of GTK (GIMP Toolkit), a free alternative. GTK was split from GIMP and became a foundation for GNOME. Miguel de Icaza learned about modular component design from Microsoft and brought those ideas to the GNOME team. [00:14:48] Federico explains KDE was already launched but used the non-free Qt toolkit and GNOME was created as a fully free alternative using GTK. [00:17:58] They discuss GNOME’s long-term success which has thousands of contributors and institutional backing from its foundation. [00:21:06] Federico reflects on his privilege. He never had to apply for his first job because he was recruited and recognizes the barriers to entry for underrepresented communities. [00:24:32] The conversation turns to global south and diversity. Federico discusses the limitations on who can participate in open source due to time, money, and societal roles, and notes that women and people outside the Global North often face greater barriers. [00:30:37] Richard inquires what Federico means by “maintaining infrastructure.” He explains that open source today is less about new features and more about keeping infrastructure working. [00:32:59] Federico talks about a recent project to replace a vital but abandoned infrastructure component and emphasizes the need for sustainable maintenance strategies. [00:36:25] Federico became maintainer of Librsvg image rendering library from C to Rust. [00:40:00] Find out where you can follow Federico on the web. Quotes [00:31:10] “Software doesn’t rot, but the environment around it changes.” Spotlight [00:40:57] Richard’s spotlight is the book, 1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus. [00:41:49] Federico’s spotlight is two books: Malintzin’s Choices and James. Links SustainOSS podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon SustainOSS Bluesky SustainOSS LinkedIn Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Federico Mena Quintero Blog Federico Mena Quintero Mastodon GNOME GIMP (GNU Image Manipulation Program) GTK Librsvg 1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus by Charles C. Mann La Malinche Malintzin’s Choices by Camila Townsend James by Percival Everett Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Federico Mena Quintero.Support Sustain

Guest Sarah Rainsberger Panelists Richard Littauer | Abby Mayes | Eriol Fox Show Notes In this special Maintainer Month episode of Sustain, hosts Richard, Abby, and Eriol talk with guest, Sarah Rainsberger, a documentation lead at Astro, who shares her journey from teaching high school mathematics to becoming an open source contributor. Sarah elaborates on her approach to documentation, emphasizing the importance of clear, supportive, and inclusive communication to onboard new contributors effectively. She also discusses using low-tech tools like Chromebooks and cloud-based editors for open source contributions. The episode highlights the strategies employed by the Astro Docs team to recognize and value contributions. Press download now to hear more! [00:02:30] Sarah shares her background, role at Astro, how she got involved in documentation that started by fixing a bad choir website, and why she chose Astro over Gatsby and quickly became a key contributor. [00:06:49] She reflects on the moment she connected her work with the concept of “open source.” [00:07:54] Sarah talks about becoming a leader using Chromebook, taking lessons on Scrimba, and using cloud tools like CodeSandbox and Gitpod, the Astro community embracing her methods, and how she built a reputation as someone making meaningful contributions regardless of hardware. [00:14:24] Sarah explains how docs are “self-serve support” and essential to project success. [00:16:28] The conversation turns to combatting the stigma that docs are low value and Sarah addresses the false perception that documentation isn’t real development. [00:18:28] Sarah shares that Astro has over 1,000 docs contributors and details their intentional process of welcoming, crediting, and celebrating new contributors. [00:24:37] How does Astro handle lower-quality contributions? Astro uses the motto: “Not worse than what we had before.” They edit or mentor rather than reject, to build confidence and retain contributors. [00:29:12] Astro maintains a separate documentation site (“D Squared”) that outlines its processes for contributing to documentation. [00:33:25] Sarah shares where to find her work at the Astro Docs and where to find her. Quotes [00:05:26] “If I’m going in, let’s go all in.” [00:12:50] “I have chosen to maintain low tech.” [00:12:59] “I am known for my evil devices.” [00:14:36] “Docs are so important to a project that you want someone else to use or contribute to.” [00:15:28] “Docs is the most scalable type of support that you can have.” [00:16:37] “Everyone complains about docs until it’s someone else’s project.” [00:26:51] “PRs don’t just fall out of the sky; they are effort, and they are work.” [00:27:05] “There is some motivation behind this PR.” [00:31:41] “Several of our maintainers started by translating the docs.” [00:31:49] “If you want to find mistakes in your English docs, you want translators.” Spotlight [00:34:40] Abby’s’ spotlight is CommunityRule. [00:35:04] Eriol’s spotlight is State of Docs. [00:35:19] Richard’s spotlight is Nathan Schneider and the Protocol Oral History Project. [00:36:08] Sarah’s spotlight is Better GitHub Co-Authors. Links SustainOSS podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon SustainOSS Bluesky SustainOSS LinkedIn Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Abby Cabunoc Mayes GitHub Eriol Fox GitHub Sarah Rainsberger Website Sarah Rainsberger Mastodon Non-code contributions are the secret to open source success (The ReadME Project) Astro Astro Docs Contribute to Astro Gitpod Scrimba Hugo Server CommunityRule State of Docs Better GitHub Co-Authors Sustain Podcast-Episode 85: Geoffrey Huntley and Sustaining OSS with Gitpod Sustain Podcast- 2 episodes featuring Nathan Schneider Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Sarah Rainsberger.Support Sustain

Guest Kade Morton Panelists Richard Littauer | Eriol Fox Show Notes In this Maintainers Month episode of Sustain, host Richard Littauer and co-host Eriol Fox talk with cybersecurity expert Kade Morton from Arachne Digital. The conversation dives into how Kade’s unconventional path through criminology and international relations led him into cybersecurity and open source. They explore the unique challenges of sustaining open source security tools, particularly for human rights activists and under-resourced groups, the tension between proprietary and open solutions, and how geopolitical contexts and human motivations influence modern digital threat landscapes. Hit download now to hear more! [00:01:41] Kade explains his work is split between a day job working security operations and a startup he runs called Arachne Digital. [00:02:51] Kade tells us about his background, how he got into cybersecurity through self-teaching and open source, and how his criminology and international relations studies informed his interest in cyber threats. [00:05:17] Kade discusses the open source projects he maintains, specifically ‘Thread.’ [00:06:50] We learn about the difficulty of getting others invested in better tools and Kade discusses challenges explaining open source values to corporate environments. [00:12:26] Richard asks whether closed-source software is more secure and Kade highlights how most real world exploits target proprietary software. [00:14:57] Eriol brings up security perceptions in non-tech orgs using digital tools. Kade shares how Arachne Digital offers free services to vetted human rights orgs and he they discuss challenges balancing funding and access in human rights cybersecurity. [00:19:17] Richard reflects on monetization models for sustaining open source cybersecurity. Kade explains his company avoids fear-based marketing and promotes awareness instead. [00:22:40] Kade outlines how their threat-informed defense model works. [00:25:42] Eriol asks what changes could help improve open source sustainability. Kade discusses feeling out of place in both government and open source spaces and emphasizes cross-pollination between sectors to reduce polarity. [00:28:29] Richard introduces the concept of “digital sovereignty.” Kade warns of the risks of splintering the internet through nationalism and advocates for a balanced middle ground between centralization and fragmentation. [00:31:41] Kade shares where you can find his work on the web. Quotes [00:13:44] “It’s mostly proprietary software that’s being hacked.” [00:29:40] “The internet is the world’s largest shared resource.” Spotlight [00:32:56] Eriol’s spotlight is a repository called: The Design We Open. [00:33:49] Richard’s spotlight is 1Password and Robin Riley. [00:34:31 Kade’s spotlight is a shoutout to Mitre for TRAM and Justin Seitz who wrote a blog post on a project called, Searx. Links SustainOSS podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon SustainOSS Bluesky SustainOSS LinkedIn Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Eriol Fox GitHub Kade Morton LinkedIn Arachne Digital Arachne Digital LinkedIn Arachne Digital (Medium) Arachne Digital (YouTube) Arachne Digital (Bluesky) Arachne Digital (GitHub) Thread-GitHub The National Digital Forum (NDF) The New Design Congress Open Technology Fund -Security Lab The Design We Open (GitHub) 1Password TRAM Searx Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Kade Morton.Support Sustain

Guests Ben Nickolls | Andrew Nesbitt Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode of Sustain, host Richard is joined by guests Ben Nickolls and Andrew Nesbitt to discuss the ecosyste.ms project. They explore how ecosyste.ms collects and analyzes metadata from various open-source projects to create a comprehensive database that can help improve funding allocation. The discussion covers the importance of funding the most critical open-source projects, the existing gaps in funding, and the partnership between ecosyste.ms and Open Source Collective to create funding algorithms that support entire ecosystems. They also talk about the challenges of maintaining data, reaching out to project maintainers, and the broader implications for the open-source community. Hit the download button now! [00:01:58] Andrew and Ben explain ecosyste.ms, what it does, and how it compares to Libraries.io. [00:04:59] Ecosyste.ms tracks metadata, not the packages themselves, and enriches data via dependency graphs, committers, issues, SBOMs, and more. [00:06:54] Andrew talks about finding 1,890 Git hosts and how many critical projects live outside GitHub. [00:08:37] There’s a conversation on metadata uses and SBOM parsing. [00:12:49] Richard inquires about the ecosystem.ms funds on their website which Andrew explains it’s a collaboration between Open Collective and ecosyste.ms. that algorithmically distributes funds to the most used, not most popular packages. [00:15:45] Ben shares how this is different from previous projects and brings up a past project, “Back Your Stack” and explains how ecosyste.ms is doing two things differently. [00:18:59] Ben explains how it supports payouts to other platforms and encourages maintainers to adopt funding YAML files for automation. Andrew touches on efficient outreach, payout management, and API usage (GraphQL). [00:25:36] Ben elaborates on how companies can fund ecosyste.ms (like Django) instead of curating their own lists and being inspired by Sentry’s work with the Open Source Pledge. [00:29:32] Andrew speaks about scaling and developer engagement and emphasizes their focus is on high-impact sustainability. [00:32:48] Richard asks, “Why does it matter?” Ben explains that most current funding goes to popular, not most used projects and ecosyste.ms aims to fix the gap with data backed funding, and he suggests use of open standards like 360Giving and Open Contracting Data. [00:35:46] Andrew shares his thoughts on funding the right projects by improving 1% of OSS, you uplift the quality of millions of dependent projects with healthier infrastructure, faster security updates, and more resilient software. [00:38:35] Find out where you can follow ecosyste.ms and the blog on the web. Quotes [00:11:18] “I call them interesting forks. If a fork is referenced by a package, it’ll get indexed.” [00:22:07] We’ve built a service that now moves like $25 million a year between OSS maintainers on OSC.” [00:33:23] “We don’t have enough information to make collective decisions about which projects, communities, maintainers, should receive more funding.” [00:34:23] “The NSF POSE Program has distributed hundreds of millions of dollars of funding to open source communities alone.” [00:35:47] “If you have ten, twenty thousand really critical open source projects, that actually isn’t unachievable to make those projects sustainable.” Spotlight [00:39:35] Ben’s spotlight is Jellyfin. [00:40:20] Andrew’s spotlight is zizmor. [00:42:21] Richard’s spotlight is The LaTeX Project. Links SustainOSS podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon SustainOSS Bluesky SustainOSS LinkedIn Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Ben Nickolls LinkedIn Andrew Nesbitt Website Andrew Nesbitt Mastodon Octobox ecosyste.ms ecosyste.ms Blog Open Source Collective Open Source Collective Updates Open Source Collective Contributions Open Source Collective Contributors Open Collective 24 Pull Requests Libraries.io The penumbra of open source (EPJ Data Science) FOSDEM ’25- Open source funding: you’re doing it wrong (Andrew and Ben) Vue.js thanks.dev StackAid Back Your Stack NSF POSE Django GitHub Sponsors Sustain Podcast-Episode 80: Emma Irwin and the Foss Fund Program Sustain Podcast- 3 Episodes featuring Chad Whitacre Sustain Podcast- Episode 218: Karthik Ram & James Howison on Research Software Visibility Infrastructure Priorities Sustain Podcast-Episode 247: Chad Whitacre on the Open Source Pledge Invest in Open Infrastructure 360Giving Open Contracting Data Standard Jellyfin zizmor The LaTeX Project Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Andrew Nesbitt and Benjamin Nickolls.Support Sustain

Guests Marianne Bellotti | Greg Wilson Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode of Sustain, host Richard Littauer talks with Marianne Bellotti, author of *Kill It with Fire, *and Greg Wilson, co-founder of the Carpentries, about what happens to your code when you leave your job and how to make sure it survives. They discuss their new paper, "10 quick tips for making your software outlive your job," and share practical strategies for protecting, documenting, and sustaining code in open source, research, and civil service environments. Whether you're preparing for a job change or want to future-proof your work, this conversation offers real-world advice for developers and researchers alike. Hit the download button now! [00:03:04] Greg and Marianne talk about challenges in code sustainability. [00:05:46] Greg speaks about how scientists often prototype rather than build production quality code. [00:09:48] We start with Step 1 in the paper: “Consider your threat mode.” Greg explains the different plans needed for individual vs. systematic departures, Marianne speaks about the importance of understanding code lifecycle-some code has a “fruit fly” lifespan others a “tortoise” one, and Richard adds to think about reframe threat modeling around future usefulness. [00:15:53] There’s a discussion on Step 2: “Get sign-off on releasing it publicly.” [00:21:30] Greg discusses Step 3: “Choose an open license” and emphasizes to stick to well-known licenses (MIT, BSD), don’t write your own, and he shares a funny story. [00:25:29] Richard talks about Step 4: “Put your code somewhere safe” and shares to upload code to GitHub, Codeberg, OSF, Zenodo, etc. Greg suggest peer-to-peer methods like torrents could help long-term preservation and Marianne emphasizes the importance of verified identities when sharing. [00:29:21] Marianne introduces Step 5: “Document your code.” Greg shares that most documentation goes unread and LLMs could help mine useful documentation from conversation records and Marianne emphasizes to focus on “how to run it” first and tests are a part of your documentation. [00:35:17] Step 6: “Make your code reproducible.” Greg and Marianne discuss using tools like Docker, uv for Python lockfiles, etc., for dependency management. [00:36:23] Step 7: “Make your code citable” and Step 8: “Encourage community adoption.” Richard mentions to add a CITATION.cff file so others can cite your code and Greg mentions a great book he read that changed the way he viewed this called, Marketing for Scientists, by Marc Kuchner. [00:38:49] Step 9: “Write a succession or sunsetting plan.” Marianne shares to define success and failure criteria for projects explicitly. [00:40:36] Step 10: “Talk about what you’re doing.” Greg emphasizes to celebrate and grieve project endings properly and Richard encourages listeners to check out the paper, read it, and if you see something missing you can contribute back. [00:43:12] Fnal thoughts from Greg and Marianne: Organize collectively to protect science and code sustainability and find your team. Quotes [00:12:10] “Weapons begin as toys.” [00:14:09] “All code is throwaway code.” [00:27:34] “Sooner or later every library burns.” [00:29:44] “Most documentation is never read by anybody because it’s not answering the questions that you actually have.” [00:41:05] “Take some time to celebrate and to grieve.” Links SustainOSS podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon SustainOSS Bluesky SustainOSS LinkedIn Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Marianne Bellotti (Medium) Marianne Bellotti LinkedIn Greg Wilson GitHub Greg Wilson LinkedIn “10 Quick tips for making your code last beyond your current job” (draft) Kill It With Fire by Marianne Bellotti Marketing for Scientists: How to Shine in Tough Times by Marc J. Kuchner Codeberg Zenodo OSF Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Greg Wilson and Marianne Bellotti.Support Sustain

Guest Dirkjan Ochtman Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this special Maintainer Month episode of Sustain, host Richard speaks with Dirkjan Ochtman, a long-time open source contributor and Rust advocate. They dive deep into what it's like maintaining critical infrastructure libraries, the motivations behind taking over "abandonware," and how funding ecosystems like GitHub Sponsors and thanks.dev help sustain low-level dependencies. Dirkjan also reflects on how Rust’s design lends itself well to long-term maintainability and shares thoughts on the challenges of burnout, context switching, and ensuring project continuity. Hit the download button now! [00:01:33] Dirkjan explains how he chooses which projects he’s maintaining, being passionate about memory safety via Rust, and maintaining tools like Rustls, Hickory DNS, and Quinn. [00:03:14] Dirkjan describes his motivation for maintaining abandonware and sees it as providing value to the community. [00:04:23] ISRG funds Dirkjan’s work on memory-safe DNS and TLS libraires, and they are replacing C-based libraires with Rust equivalents. [00:05:33] Dirkjan uses thanks.dev to help fund maintainers through the full dependency graph and revenue is limited but promising. [00:08:06] Richard brings up Tidelift and Dirkjan mentions it’s not yielding results for Rust projects yet because the Rust ecosystem is smaller. [00:09:30] We hear Dirkjan’s journey into Rust, starting in Python but frustrated by lack of type safety and performance, and creating his own compiler before appreciating Rust’s complexity. [00:12:20] Dirkjan talks about his transition from Python to Rust. [00:13:39] Dirkjan uses PyO3 to create Python bindings for Rust libraries. [00:15:31] Richard wonders why projects become unmaintained and Dirkjan responds that people have life events, job changes, or shifting interests. [00:17:11] How are unmaintained projects flagged? Dirkjan uses the RustSec Advisory DB to detect projects with no active maintainers. [00:18:47] Dirkjan avoids burnout as a maintainer by keeping the scope narrow, only responds to PRs, doesn’t overcommit, and focuses on high-efficiency, low-effort maintenance. [00:19:51] Rust has a strong system, built-in unit tests, great CI support, and Dirkjan encourages atomic commits to simplify code review. [00:21:28] Dirkjan speaks about languages that are more maintainer safe. [00:22:18] Richard brings up attack vectors and the ‘left-pad incident.’ Dirkjan shares how he builds trust via his public GitHub record. [00:24:17] We hear Dirkjan’s offboarding and succession planning as he explains handing off projects like Askama and promoting multiple maintainers to reduce bus factor. [00:26:08] Dirkjan’s long-term vision for OSS sustainability is he hopes to move higher in the stack and wants to make high-quality software easier to build. [00:27:38] Dirkjan explains why he prefers to do asynchronous collaboration over pair programming. [00:28:52] Dirkjan discusses Rust’s long-term ecosystem stability. [00:31:09] Find out where you can follow Dirkjan on the web. Quotes [00:03:23] “You call it abandonware and I call it a dependency that has a million users.” [00:19:02] “[When I take on a project], I don’t take on the burden of proactively improving the project.” [00:19:11] “I will be there when someone submits a PR." [00:20:37] “I ask folks to make small changes: atomic commits.” Spotlight [00:31:37] Richard’s spotlight is Allan Day. [00:32:20] Dirkjan’s spotlight is Xilem. Links SustainOSS podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon SustainOSS Bluesky SustainOSS LinkedIn Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Dirkjan Ochtman LinkedIn Dirkjan Ochtman Blog Dirkjan Ochtman Mastodon Dirkjan Ochtman GitHub Dirkjan Ochtman Bluesky Rust Rustls Hickory DNS Quinn Internet Security Research Group (ISRG) Let’s Encrypt Automatic Certificate Management Environment PyO3 user guide Sustain Podcast-Episode 108: Sarah Gran and Josh Aas: Sustainable Digital Infrastructure with Memory Safe Code Sustain Podcast-Episode 148: Ali Nehzat of thanks.dev and OSS Funding Tidelift RustSec Advisory Database-GitHub Askama Allan Day’s GNOME Blog Xilem Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Dirkjan Ochtman.Support Sustain

Michelle Barker, Director of the Research Software Alliance (ReSA), discusses her journey from sociology to championing open science. She highlights the importance of research software and ReSA's role in uniting global efforts for software collaboration. The conversation delves into building social infrastructure in the open-source ecosystem and the challenges of connecting various stakeholders. Michelle also shares insights on effective networking strategies and the significance of community engagement in advancing research software projects.

Guests Eriol Fox | Allen “Gunner” Gunn | Leslie Hawthorn | Abby Cabunoc Mayes Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this special episode of Sustain, Richard has a discussion with guests and fellow hosts Eriol Fox, Abby Cabunoc Mayes, Leslie Hawthorne, and Gunner, about the recent virtual Sustain event discussing the current state and future of sustaining open source software. The conversation covers a broad range of topics, from the impact of AI on open source and the complexity of corporate funding, to the importance of succession planning and the need for a continued focus on equity and inclusion. The group also express gratitude to the community and highlight the necessity of creating safe spaces for deep and meaningful discussions about the human aspects of open source. Future events and potential topics are also teased. Hit the download button now! [00:01:45] Gunner shares an event summary starting on the evolution of SustainOSS, and talks about the topics ranging from usage metrics, donor programs, geopolitical barriers in FOSS, and details the working sessions. [00:03:34] Everyone shares their personal takeaway from the event. [00:09:57] We hear about the conversations that were missed at the event and what everyone would like to talk about in the future about sustaining open source. [00:17:56] Gunner briefs us on the next event with a possibility of another forum focused entirely on AI, and Richard proposes exploring digital sovereignty and how it intersects with open source principles. [00:19:39] We end with final thoughts from everyone: Gunner expresses gratitude for the community, Abby is grateful for the space and conversations, Leslie gives a shoutout to UN Open Source Week for fostering global cooperation, Eriol praises Jonah Duckles for putting out “Ten Simple Rules for Academic Open Source Collaborations with Industry,” and Richard encourages listeners to keep contributing and engaging with the Sustain community. Links SustainOSS podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon SustainOSS Bluesky SustainOSS LinkedIn Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Eriol Fox Website Allen “Gunner” Gunn LinkedIn Leslie Hawthorn LinkedIn Abby Cabunoc Mayes Website Monki Gras 2025 UN Open Source Week 2025 Ten Simple Rules for Academic Open Source Collaborations with Industry by Jonah Duckles, Dan Sholler, Beth Duckles Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Support Sustain