

Sounds of SAND
Science and Nonduality
Sounds of SAND invites listeners into a contemplative journey through the infinite cycles of existence - from its raw beauty to its deepest mysteries, from its intricate complexity to its profound wonder. Through intimate conversations, thought-provoking interviews, poetic readings, and carefully curated music, we weave together ancient wisdom with lived experience, creating a tapestry of sound that honors the great questions of being
Episodes
Mentioned books

Oct 9, 2025 • 60min
Reindigenizing Our Ways of Being: Tina Ngata, Diana and Mark Kopua
In this panel from the The Eternal Song 7-Day Global Gathering Schedule, Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo speak with Dr. Diana Kopua, a Māori psychiatrist, Mark Kopua, a cultural leader and master carver, and Tina Ngata, an advocate for indigenous and environmental rights. The conversation explores the significance of revitalizing indigenous knowledge, ancestral connections, and reindigenization. They explore the effects of colonialism, the doctrine of Christian discovery, and the urgency of collective wellbeing practices. The conversations weaves reconnection with ancestral stories, the environment, and indigenizing oneself as crucial steps towards collective healing and resilience.
Find out more about The Eternal Song film series and All-Access Pass and the SAND film Mauri which features all three guests from today’s show.
Topics
00:00 Introduction of Extraordinary Voices
01:50 Personal Introductions and Backgrounds
07:09 Current Issues in New Zealand
12:24 Colonial Impact on Māori Wellbeing
18:42 Traditional Māori Wellbeing and Ancestral Connections
33:29 Healing Through Ancestral Stories
34:56 Impact of Colonization on Indigenous Mindset
37:04 Reconnecting with Ancestral Wisdom
40:55 Understanding Racism and Education
44:26 The Role of Christianity and Wealth
52:51 Indigenizing vs. Decolonizing
53:35 Practical Steps to Re-Indigenize
56:38 Final Thoughts and Reflections
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Oct 2, 2025 • 1h 5min
ALTÆR: Iya Affo
Ancestral Bone Mapping & Healing: Reweaving the Soul Through Bone, Beauty, and Ancestral Nourishment with Iya AffoThrough rhythms of beauty, grief, and intergenerational wisdom, this presentation and conversation explored healing through the languages of somatic ritual, trauma-informed neurobiology, and ancestral remembering.
Iya Affo is a Culturalist and Historical Trauma consultant. She earned Western certification as a Trauma Specialist and is a descendant of a long line of traditional healers from Bénin, West Africa. Iya serves as an Executive Board Member for the Arizona ACEs Consortium, is an Adjunct Faculty member at the Arizona Trauma Institute, and is the founder of Heal Historical Trauma Culture & Indigenous Wellness Academy. She has visited more than 30 countries; living in Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, Taoist, Native American, and Yoruba communities, embracing aspects from each culture for personal evolution. She strives to transcend tolerance through cultivating love and respect in hopes of facilitating the decolonization and subsequent healing of indigenous people from all over the world. Iya advocates for the harmonization of Traditional Medicine and Western Medicine for true holistic healing.
ALTÆR is a sacred invitation into ancestral medicine, where the body is honored as shrine, and the bones are read as living scrolls. Culturalist and Historical Trauma Consultant Iya Affo brings her deep-rooted knowledge and ceremonial practice to this space. As a featured presence in The Eternal Song film and founder of the Heal Historical Trauma Culture & Indigenous Wellness Academy, Iya carries experience across many Indigenous communities and advocates for the harmonization of Traditional and Western medicine as a path to collective wholeness.
ALTÆR: The Bones Remember – Eight week course with Iya Affo
Topics:
00:00 Introduction and Greetings
00:42 Introducing Iya Affo
01:44 Acknowledging Ancestral Lands and Ancestors
04:25 The Importance of Ancestral Healing
09:38 Understanding Coherence and Healing Practices
18:06 Exploring Bone Mapping
28:11 Personal Story: Ancestral Memory and Birth
32:45 A Difficult Labor and Ancestral Memory
34:33 The Impact of Historical Trauma on Black Women
38:47 Bone Mapping and Spiritual Genetics
43:57 Roles of Men and Women in Ancestral Healing
49:53 Healing Practices and Rituals
57:31 Integrating Indigenous Knowledge with Western Therapy
01:03:20 Closing Reflections and Future Courses
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Sep 26, 2025 • 1h 14min
We Will Not Look Away: Vigil for Gaza
Please join us along with Rabbi Lynn Gottlieb, Ashira Darwish, Rae Abileah, Shahd Abusalama, Omid Safi, Reverend Michael Yoshii, and Iyas Sartawari for a reckoning.
A collective refusal. A gathering of those who cannot stay silent while genocide is livestreamed.
We do not come together to be informed. We come because we already know.
We come because we refuse to normalize atrocity.
We come to grieve every stolen Palestinian life—every child starved, every family erased.
We come to grieve the collapse of our shared humanity—and to ignite what remains.
This grief is not weakness. It is fire. It is clarity. It is a declaration: we will not look away.
Topics
00:00 Opening Remarks and Introductions
01:24 Shahd Abusalama's Testimony
07:46 Raif Ziada's Poem Recitation
19:53 Rabbi Lynn's Address
28:30 Omid Safi's Prayer and Reflections
40:03 Introduction and Greetings
40:07 Reverend Joshi's Reflections
42:10 Prayers and Songs for the Martyrs
46:09 Ashira's Call to Action
51:28 Rae Abileah's Contributions
52:12 Small Group Discussions
56:21 Project Hope Overview
01:03:59 Final Reflections and Call to Action
01:08:39 Closing Remarks
SupportTogether, we call for the return of UNRWA and the shutting down of the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (GHF). Funds from the gathering will go to Project Hope, providing aid to Gaza.
Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member

Sep 11, 2025 • 46min
The Sacred Work of Grief: Francis Weller & Orland Bishop
In this live recording from The Eternal Song Seven Day Premier broadcast, hosts Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo engage in a deep discussion with guests Francis Weller, a psychotherapist and soul activist, and Orland Bishop, a spiritual teacher and founder of ShadeTree Foundation. Exploring themes such as indigenous wisdom, the impact of colonialism, communal grieving, and the necessity of reconnecting with ancestral roots. The dialogue also covers the significance of embracing grief as a communal and necessary process for healing and transformation, and reflects on what it means to enter a 'long dark' period — a time of significant societal and personal upheaval. We Explored grief as a sacred threshold, not a pathology, remembering the soul’s place in a world of fragmentation and reclaiming reverence, slowness, and deep belonging in troubled times.
The Eternal Song film series and All-Access Pass
Francis Weller
ShadeTree Multicultural Foundation (Orland Bishop)
Topics
00:00 Introduction to The Eternal Song and Today's Guests
02:05 Opening Invocation and Reflections on Grief
04:36 Historical Context and the Impact of Colonialism
07:37 The Role of Rituals and Ancestral Wisdom
14:38 Communal Grief and Healing Practices
26:06 Entering the Long Dark: A Time of Transformation
39:41 Connecting with Ancestors and Concluding Thoughts
Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member

5 snips
Aug 28, 2025 • 1h 1min
#60 Spiritual Warriors: Lama Rod Owens
Lama Rod Owens, a Black Buddhist Southern Queen and Harvard Divinity graduate, discusses radical self-care and compassion in a world facing turmoil. He emphasizes the necessity of personal healing to drive societal change, particularly in light of global conflicts. The conversation touches on the concept of 'new saints' who work altruistically within their communities, and the power of representation in spiritual writing. Finally, Owens highlights the transformative role of prayer in fostering connection and nurturing resilience.

Aug 7, 2025 • 1h 9min
#94 One Human Family: Rabbi Lynn Gottlieb, Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche, Rev. Deborah Lee & Pir Zia Inayat Khan
Renowned spiritual leaders Rabbi Lynn Gottlieb, Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche, Rev. Deborah Lee, and Pir Zia Inayat Khan come together in a powerful interfaith gathering to express solidarity with Palestinians. They emphasize shared humanity, dignity, and peace with justice in Palestine, offering inspiration to embody ethical and moral principles across diverse spiritual traditions.

14 snips
Jun 26, 2025 • 1h 34min
#58 On Extinction & Enchantment: Alixa García
Alixa García, a Colombian-born multi-disciplinary artist and passionate activist, discusses the intersection of art, culture, and environmental issues. She emphasizes the importance of Indigenous resilience and the transformative power of creativity in facing climate crises. The conversation explores themes of enchantment, collective grief, and futurism. Alixa shares insights from her experiences at Burning Man, highlighting community, ritual, and the urgency of nurturing our planet. She invites listeners to reconnect with the cosmos and envision a harmonious future through her upcoming course.

Jun 12, 2025 • 57min
#130 Spiritual Shadows: Scott Kiloby & Toshi Matsunaga
Today on the show, we welcome Scott Kiloby and Toshi Matsunaga, authors of Awake But Sick, to explore the hidden emotional pain that can persist even after profound spiritual awakening. Their work challenges the common myths of nonduality and mindfulness, offering a deeper path through emotional repression, physical illness, and the illusion of immediate freedom. In this conversation, we explore the gap between awakening and true healing, the dangers of spiritual bypassing, and how to reconnect with the body’s wisdom to find lasting peace.
Links
Kiloby.com
Nondualship with Toshi Matsunaga
Nonduality & KI Monthly Meeting with Toshi
Awake But Sick
Emotional Repression Test Inquiry
Topics
00:00 Introduction to Guests and Their Work
01:34 Scott and Toshi's Journey to Collaboration
02:31 Understanding Kiloby Inquiries (KI)
03:12 The Dimensions of Spiritual Practice
04:54 Addressing Spiritual Bypassing
08:48 The Connection Between Awakening and Suffering
12:26 The Role of Repressed Emotions
15:28 Integrating Non-Dual Teachings with Modern Psychosis
25:49 The Iceberg Metaphor and Emotional Repression
29:13 The Role of Spiritual Practices in Repression
31:35 Identifying Patterns of Avoidance and Spiritual Bypassing
32:49 Signs of Repression in Meditation and Spiritual Practices
36:31 Understanding and Addressing Anger Repression
46:54 The Importance of Community in Spiritual Work
52:20 Connecting with the Speakers and Their Work
Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member

May 29, 2025 • 51min
#54 Nordic Animism: Rune Hjarnø Rasmussen (Encore)
Rune Hjarnø Rasmussen, a historian of religion with a PhD from Uppsala University, dives into the fascinating world of Nordic animism. He discusses the vital connection between ancestral traditions and modern environmental activism. Rune emphasizes the importance of decolonizing perspectives to revive indigenous practices amid contemporary challenges. Listeners learn about the emotional ties to ancestry, the role of reciprocity in spiritual practices, and how animism can offer solutions to issues like isolation and polarization in today's society.

10 snips
May 22, 2025 • 41min
#129 Embodying Anti-Zionism: Wendy Elisheva Somerson
Wendy Elisheva Somerson, a non-binary Jewish somatic healer and activist, discusses their new book on anti-Zionist Jewish healing. They delve into the impact of Zionism on Jewish historical trauma and advocate for healing practices that acknowledge both personal and communal struggles. The conversation highlights the intertwining of activism and spirituality, emphasizing solidarity with marginalized communities. Somerson also shares somatic practices to process heavy emotions and promote resilience, fostering a hopeful vision for a liberated future.