In the Shadows of Utopia: The Khmer Rouge and the Cambodian Nightmare

In this episode, I talk with journalist and author Sebastian Strangio about the border tensions between Cambodia and Thailand that have escalated in July 2025. Sebastian is the Southeast Asia editor at The Diplomat and one of the region’s leading journalists. He’s a former reporter at the Phnom Penh Post, and the author of Hun Sen’s Cambodia (re-released as Cambodia: From Pol Pot to Hun Sen and Beyond) and In the Dragon’s Shadow, a study of China’s growing influence in Southeast Asia.  We start with the political figure who has shaped Cambodia for decades, Hun Sen, and trace how his rise from Khmer Rouge defector to Prime Minister led to the creation of a powerful political dynasty. We then look at the handover of power to his son, Hun Manet, and what that has meant for Cambodian politics in the last two years.  From there, we shift focus to Thailand and explore the structure of Thai politics today. Who holds power? How have coups and party shifts shaped its modern system? And how does that compare to Cambodia’s more centralized model? This helps us understand one of the key triggers of the current crisis: a leaked phone call between Hun Sen and former Thai Prime Minister Paetongtarn Shinawatra.  We then move into the border dispute itself. We look at the long history of territorial claims, colonial-era maps, and temple flashpoints like Preah Vihear and Ta Moan. And we ask how this latest confrontation fits into broader patterns of nationalism, political theatre, and regional rivalry. Finally, we explore what role public opinion and media narratives are playing on both sides of the border. 

Hello everyone, I've put together a quick look at the long history of the Thai Cambodia border dispute to compliment what I'm sure many of you are reading and watching in newspapers and on television. The escalation is far from good, and I hope it simmers down back to - as I'll discuss - a normal state of not-quite-peaceful. I cover the history from 900 CE to 2025, and everything from the 1794 retrocession of Battambang, the Franco-Thai War, Sihanouks ICJ case in 1962, Khmer Rouge border clashes and spies, to the more recent disputes about Preah Vihear. Much of this is based off of a recent bonus episode I made for Patreon, so for those that have listened to that, apologies for some of the overlap. www.shadowsofutopia.com/support 

How did the Khmer Republic try to take back control of Cambodia? Time Period Covered: June 1970 - January 1971 In this episode, we follow the Lon Nol government as it attempts to prove that the Khmer Republic can fight and win.  After the initial chaos of the coup and the brief U.S. incursion, Cambodia’s leaders launch their first large-scale offensive: Operation Chenla I. We look at how the Cambodians, with American and South Vietnamese support, attempt to open Route 6, retake lost territory, and secure the Lon Nol strategy. Please see this link for Chenla Offensive Visuals and Maps: https://www.shadowsofutopia.com/episodes/the-khmer-republic-chenla-one Sources: Wilfred Deac The Road to the Killing Fields Craig Etcheson The Rise and Demise of Democratic Kampuchea Sat Sutsakhan The Khmer Republic at War Various New York Times Articles June 1970 CBS News September 4 1970 Ros Sereysothea (song) David Chandler The Tragedy of Cambodian History Henry Kamm Report From a Stricken Land Haing Ngor Surival in the Killing Fields Presidential Briefings 1970 (CIA reading room) Lon Nol - Nixon Correspondance (Office of the Historian)

Why was Duch released from prison on April 3rd, 1970? How did Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge transition from small guerrilla enclaves to administering huge areas of Cambodia? What exactly was “Independence Mastery,” and why was it so central to the Khmer Rouge mindset?  Time Period Covered: April 1970 – July 1971  In this episode, we pivot from Lon Nol’s takeover to the Cambodian communist perspective, exploring how Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge navigated the chaotic months following the coup. We follow Duch’s unexpected release from prison, track Pol Pot’s return journey from Beijing and Hanoi, and see how the Khmer Rouge began absorbing millions of Cambodians into so-called “liberated zones.” Along the way, we delve into the principle of Independence Mastery, the uneasy alliance with the Vietnamese, and the early precursor to S-21 known as M-13. We also uncover the paranoid mindset driving the Khmer Rouge’s suspicion of outside influence, including alleged assassination plots and forced confessions, shadows of the horror to come.  Remember, if you can, to please support the show at www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.  Sources: Chandler - Tragedy of Cambodian History and Voices From S21 Short - Pol Pot Kiernan - How Pol Pot Came To Power ECCC Archives - Duch Trial 2009 Heder - Cambodian Communism and the Vietnamese Model Edwards - Cambodge Harris - Buddhism Under Pol Pot

Why did Nixon invade Cambodia in May 1970? What impact did the 'Cambodian Incursion' have on the war in Vietnam? How did this effect Cambodia? Time Period Covered: May - June 1970 In part two of our discussion about the situation in Cambodia after the coup which pushed Sihanouk from power, we see how the Nixon Whitehouse responded to the crisis facing Cambodia. Lachlan asks whether the decision that Nixon and Kissinger made was the right one, or whether there was a correct answer. We look at the circumstances which brought about the decision, what options were on the table, and the impact that Nixon's speech which announced the 'incursion' had. Then we look at the 'Cambodia Campaign' itself, discussing the fighting which overtakes much of the country, and the outcomes this had in the short, and long term. Remember, if you can, to please support the show at www.shadowsofutopia.com/support Sources: Chandler “Tragedy of Cambodian History” Short “Pol Pot” Shawcross “Sideshow” Kamm “Report from a Stricken Land” Sak Satsukhan “The Khmer Republic at War” Wilfred Deac “Road to the Killing Fields” Walter Isaacson “Kissinger” Kiernan “How Pol Pot Came to Power” Etcheson “Rise and Demise of Democratic Kampuchea” James Sterba "G.I's in Cambodia" (New York Times)

What was the crisis facing the new Cambodian Government in April 1970? Why were the Vietnamese communities subjected to massacres? What circumstances led to a US invasion into Cambodia? Time Period Covered: April 1970 In this episode Lachlan explores the horrible aftermath of the coup against Sihanouk, a panicked new regime produced a pogrom against an innocent group of civilians. The Communist Vietnamese armies take much of the countryside. Journalists disappear as they report on the Vietnam War which had spilled over the border. The Nixon Whitehouse faces a decision. Apologies for the abrupt ending, part two is basically done and will be out soon! Please consider supporting the show at https://www.patreon.com/shadowsofutopia   Check out https://www.mekongriverpress.com/mekong-river-press  Sources Chandler “Tragedy of Cambodian History” Short “Pol Pot” Shawcross “Sideshow” Kamm “Report from a Stricken Land” Sak Satsukhan “The Khmer Republic at War” Wilfred Deac “Road to the Killing Fields” Walter Isaacson “Kissinger” Kiernan “How Pol Pot Came to Power” Etcheson “Rise and Demise of Democratic Kampuchea”

Lachlan takes you back through the more than 30 hours of Season 2's storyline that took us through 15 years of Cambodian history. Support the show at https://www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.html 

Were the CIA responsible for the coup against Sihanouk? Why did Lon Nol and Sirik Matak finally make a move against the prince? What did Sihanouk’s removal from power mean for the Khmer Rouge? Time Period Covered 1969 - 1970 In the final episode of this season, Lachlan covers the circumstances that surround the plot to remove Norodom Sihanouk from his position as head of state. Lon Nol and Sirik Matak will take advantage of the problem of Vietnamese troop presence on Cambodian land and turn it into a political necessity to oust the Prince. They would make several miscalculations which would mean that this plan would largely backfire, as Sihanouk joins a resistance front with who he thinks are the Khmer Rouge, as well as the Vietnamese and recieving Chinese aid. Lon Nol’s new government will have to resort to terrible measures to try and deliver on their promises. Please consider supporting the show at https://www.patreon.com/shadowsofutopia  Sources Chandler “Tragedy of Cambodian History” and “Brother Number One” Short “Pol Pot” Shawcross “Sideshow” Heder “Cambodian Communism” Sihanouk “My War With The CIA” Osbourne “Sihanouk” Jagel “Khmer Nationalist” Haing Ngor “Survival in the Killing Fields” Kamm “Report from a Stricken Land”

How did Cambodia become the ‘key’ to Nixon’s plan to end the Vietnam War? What was the secret bombing of Cambodia? How many bombs did the US drop on Cambodia? What factors led to the end of Sihanouk’s leadership of the country? Time Period Covered 1968 - 1969 In this episode Lachlan looks at the gradually degrading situation in Cambodia, and the destabilization prior to a change in the Whitehouse that will only make matters worse. We look at Sihanouk’s movies, the Cambodian economy, and the Khmer Rouge as they continue their ‘armed struggle’ across the country. Nixon’s ascension to power in the USA is explored, his plans for a quick end to the Vietnam War, and the role that Cambodia could play in producing this. Bombing, done in secret, is explained, as well as some comments on the general discourse around the idea of ‘bombs over Cambodia’. Check out the YouTube Channel at https://youtu.be/8QdRvpbMr_w?si=vTEurMs6dDEmjjHI Sources Short “Pol Pot” Chandler “Tragedy of Cambodian History” Shawcross “Sideshow” Mark Atwood Lawrence “Concise History of the Vietnam War” Kiernan “How Pol Pot Came To Power” Osbourne “Sihanouk” Heder “Cambodian Communism and the Vietnamese Model” Article Links https://quillette.com/2023/12/07/kissinger-and-cambodia/ https://gsp.yale.edu/case-studies/cambodian-genocide-program/us-involvement/united-states-bombing-cambodia-1965-1973 Support https://www.patreon.com/shadowsofutopia

How many journalists were able to set foot in Cambodia before the revolution, during the revolution and after the revolution? Not many. Elizabeth Becker is one of those people. In 1973 she began covering the war in Cambodia, in 1978 she was part of a three person delegation which saw the first western journalists to enter into Democratic Kampuchea. There she was witness to, as she describes it a "Twilight Zone" version of Cambodia. She also met Pol Pot. The end of her trip ended in tragedy as one member of the delegation was murdered the same night. A fictionalised version of that story is the subject of Rithy Panh's new film Rendez-vous avec Pol Pot, and I got to speak to Elizabeth about her newest book "You Don't Belong Here", as well as her story and work in Cambodia, witnessing the effects of the 1973 US bombing campaign, her tour of Democratic Kampuchea and much more. Please Note At the beginning of the interview, Elizabeth references a review by David Chandler from 1987 and what it meant to hear this critique in the Khmer Rouge Tribunals. She also gives her reasoning behind why she thinks that criticism was given. I had failed to mention to her before the interview or at the time that I had worked with David previously, which I regret. However, I feel it is necessary to mention that Chandler had later recommended "When the War Was Over" in his 'top five books' that someone should read about Cambodia. This was amongst high praise and the reasons he gave for his initially critical review in the late 80s: "She manages to tell the dramatic sides, the painful aspects, she builds up a very clear and moving picture. She worked in Cambodia in the early 1970s so she got a feel for the country, she understood what had been damaged and how people were affected. It is a very effective book and I believe that it will stand up to the test of time. I had reservations initially because she wasn’t an insider, and like so many writers she goes into the story through the dark side of the Khmers, the spooky nature of the land and people- in this way foreshadowing Philip Short. I don’t buy into that at all. It’s a small reservation I have, but otherwise this is a wonderful book." That recommendation can be found at https://fivebooks.com/best-books/best-books-cambodia/ Please visit https://www.patreon.com/shadowsofutopia to watch the video of the interview.