Have a New Kid by Friday with Dr. Kevin Leman

It’s time for another Ask Dr. Leman: “I can’t finish a conversation when my 4-year-old is around.” Listen in to find out Dr. Leman’s response on today’s episode of Have a New Kid by Friday Podcast.     **Special Offer– Dec 1 – 31: The Intimate Connection ebook for $2.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**     Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing Produced by Unmutable Transcript Doug: Don’t we all just love that person that we work with who as soon as we start talking, they break-in and we don’t get to finish our comment? Or do we just love it when we’re trying to have a conversation with- Andrea: Hey, Doug. Hey, Doug. Doug: Andrea, Andrea, Andrea. Yes, that’s it. Well, that’s the question Rebekah asked. Her four-year-old interrupts everything she said. Every conversation. So we get to ask Dr. Leman, how do you stop it? Where does it come from? Hi, I’m Doug Terpening. Andrea: I’m Andrea. Doug: And it is so good to be with you today. If this is your first time with us, this is for your education and entertainment purposes only. If the subject matter raises any concerns for you or your child, please go seek a local professional for help. So funny, I got thrown off on the intro because I was waiting for you to do it again. So we all know we hate being interrupted. So let’s hear what Rebekah’s question is. Rebekah: I have a four-year-old son. He is my oldest and he many times will interrupt adult conversations. If my husband and I are speaking, he will constantly try to talk over us because he wants attention. If I tell him I have a phone call, he will purposefully be loud and make noises. If we’re in the car and I am talking to my husband or his brother who is a small baby, he will try to talk over us and it’s just getting out of hand. And we’ve tried different types of discipline, taking away things that he enjoys, but he’s very persistent and it just seems like we need some help with this. Dr. Leman: Okay, Rebekah, let’s start with the good news. You know you have an attention-getting child, but do you know you have a powerful child as well? See, kids are attention-getters by their nature. They’re going to get attention positively or negatively. And for whatever reason, this little four-year-old got off track and he’s learned how to get attention negatively. Okay? It’s still attention. That’s the point the parent has to understand. So when you say you’ve tried everything, hey, I appreciate that. I talk with a lot of parents who tell me they’ve tried everything. Taking away things a four-year-old enjoys is never effective with a kid who just wants to always be seen and always want to be heard. This kid is playing whack-a-mole. You ever played whack-a-mole at an amusement park where these things pop up and you whack them on the head and as soon as you whack the one that pops up at the other? And that’s sort of what you’re dealing with. You said he’s very persistent and you could use a synonym, you could say he’s very powerful. Dr. Leman: So again, as a kid progresses into the of discouragement, and that’s what I want you to hear, this kid is discouraged already at age four. And one of the things we talk about is encouraging children and how important it is. Okay? But the discouraged child will go from attention-getting to power to revenge. You don’t want to go that far. So again, this is one of those situations where you need to pick one tact, one avenue to deal with this guy. And the problem is it’s extremely difficult because he’s so persistent. You’re going to have to be doing this all the time to turn the tide. Dr. Leman: And what am I suggesting you do? As soon as he starts his little dog and pony show of interrupting, he is removed from the scene. Okay? That is to say, he starts this thing when you’re on the phone, you take him to a room you can lock from the outside. You say, well, we don’t have a room we can lock from the outside. Well, have your husband put a little lock outside the door, a real simple little locks. And four-year-old is now … He can howl at the moon. He can throw a temper tantrum. He can scream and yell, but he’s in the back bedroom somewhere. And you have your phone call wherever you’d like, okay? If you live in a climate or a location where it’s easy for you to put him outside, I’d put them outside on the back lawn, immediately. Dr. Leman: So as soon as he opens his mouth and he starts interrupting, without any words, you take them by the arm, take them by the hand, put them on a place, close, separate yourself from him. Now what I’m telling you with a persistent little guy like this guy, little Mr. Whack-a-mole, you are really going to be taxed because he will be at you constantly. Okay? So you’re going to have to extinguish his negative responses as consistently as you possibly can. And so that would be my challenge for you today, Rebekah, to think, how can I deal with this realistically? Dr. Leman: Now you mentioned in the car, notice that powerful children know when they have you over the barrel. What are you going the do when he’s in the car? Well, depending upon where you have your baby, it sounded like you had a younger child as well, this may not be appropriate, but one of my favorites with kids in the car, like if I’m driving him to preschool or something and they have some kind of behavior that you don’t really like, you just turn the radio on as loud as it’ll and put the rear speakers on. And that’ll usually get their attention. They don’t like that. They’ll be screaming, “Mommy, turn that down. Turn that down.” Dr. Leman: So again, some of these things might sound harsh to you, but again, you have to realize that for whatever reason, you and your husband have created this … You probably made the mistake that many parents do. You probably just tried to make sure he’s happy at all times. Well, good luck with that. Quoting my own book, Have a New Kid by Friday, “An unhappy child is a healthy child.” So there’s times your four-year-old if you do this right, he’s going to be miserable. He’s going to be really unhappy, but he’s going to figure out that he’s the only one that can keep his mouth shut and not interrupt. You can’t do that for him. Dr. Leman: But you can set up situation after situation where pretty soon he feels like this is fruitless. I got to do something different. So for openers, that’s it, Rebekah. Andrea: So, Dr. Leman, you said you started off with he’s discouraged. How did he get discouraged? Dr. Leman: Kids strive for significance in their own family. Okay. And they get encouraged by parents who know the difference between vitamin E and traditional praise. When you just praise a child when he’s doing something right, the kid figures out within a short period of time, oh, I get it. They only really love me when I’m doing these things right. There’s something wrong with that. Where the parent who uses encouragement, the kid sees the relationship in much more healthier terms. They see me as somebody who can contribute to this family, who can give back to the family. I’m a part of this family. I’m not the enemy of these two people. These two tall people who live with me. Dr. Leman: And so the process of encouragement comes from Adlerian individual psychology theory if anybody’s interested in where does that come from. And one of the things that Alfred Adler talked about years ago is that there was a striving for superiority in the family. For example, this little four-year-old is the oldest and he hears those footsteps of those younger kids. He’s threatened by their being around. He’s asking himself if there’s enough love from mom and dad for him because these little ones are taking an awful lot of time, a lot of mom and dad’s time. So that’s where the adventure starts. Dr. Leman: And just like as kids, we played on a sand pile or a dirt pile and we played King of the hill or queen of the hill. The idea was to be on top of the hill. That striving for superiority is what gave birth to my writings about the birth order and why firstborns are natural leaders and why babies of the family tend to be attention-getters. They can’t compete with the firstborn. The first part has got way too much of an advantage, so they become the class clown or the kid that demands attention in other ways. So it’s all about a psychological striving for meaningfulness in their lives. Dr. Leman: And so kids, like I say, all kids are born attention-getters and they’re going to get it positively or negatively. And so how you start off, I mean, talk about the infant. You’ve heard me talk about kids need schedules and the kid will probably help determine their own schedule, but the parent who goes out for an evening in the first two weeks of that child’s birth without the child is moving in the right direction. They’re already establishing some independence for themselves as a couple and they’re beginning to teach the child that mommy and daddy will not always be there. So getting off to a good start in parenting is very important. Dr. Leman: And as all your mommy’s know, when that little firstborn is placed in your arms and that little lip is quivering and you count those fingers and toes, and you’re fully aware of the wonderful blessing you just received, it’s easy, I mean, it’s immediate, you fall in love with this little child. And it’s so easy just in the very get-go to sort of overdo. And when you do, you end up with a child who feels he or she has a license to misbehave and do their thing and become so independent that they become detrimental to the smooth running of a family. So that was a long answer, Andrea, but it comes from psychological theory. Andrea: I have another question. If I were Rebekah, I would wonder, okay, so now I’m going to start locking him up in the room when I’m trying to have a conversation, removing him from the situation, can she also balance that with, “Okay, now we’re putting baby down and now is my time to snuggle with you and read a book, giving him that vitamin E and giving him that special attention that he does need? Dr. Leman: I think it’s a real natural thing. That’s what you want to do as a mom. You want four-year-old to be a helper. “Help me with your little sister. Hey honey, would you go get a Pamper for mommy? Thank you, honey. I really love it when you help me.” And with a happy face, “Thank you, honey.” That’s encouragement. That’s vitamin E. That’s giving attention to a child in a positive way. So keep in mind for those of you who think we’re too militaristic here, the balance is always what Andrea just shared. You want to be loving to that child. Kids need textual stimulation. They need time with you. They need cuddle time. They love stories. But there has to be a clear delineation in a child’s mind that this is acceptable and this isn’t. And the one that makes that call is you, you’re the parent. Doug: Well, so the eBook fits perfectly with Rebekah’s question, Have a New Kid by Friday. You can get it from December 1 to December 31st of 2020, you can get it for $2.99 wherever eBooks are sold. So, Dr. Leman, why would any parent buy Have a New Kid by Friday? Dr. Leman: Because you got a brain in your head and you realize you need some help. That is the best book. Read the reviews. It’s a New York Times bestselling book. You have no idea how difficult it is to get a book to that level. It’s just a high mountain to climb. So if you write books about marriage, and family, parenting and you get that high of a ranking on a book, you know that book has been extremely helpful and millions of people’s lives have been touched by that book. So if you don’t want to read it for 2.99, you go on and do your thing, parent and I wish you a lot of luck. If you want to see a change in your child’s behavior, a change in your family’s atmosphere, take the time to read that book. Dr. Leman: And as I’ve said on other podcasts, if you’re not a reader, we have a DVD series you can watch. You can obviously listen to it as well. And it’s $25. It’s a six-part series. It’s been extremely popular and you can get that at drleman.com. You spell Leman right and you’re there. L-E-M-A-N, drleman.com. So it’s for your reading. The publisher downloads these things to put them in your hands. We bless it because we think that information is really necessary. If you take a look around our country today and ask yourself, “Are kids where they need to be?” No, they’re not. They’re not even close. Are families where they need to be? No, they’re not. So this is a book that’ll help right the good ship family and steer you toward a port of call that’s healthy for everyone. Doug: Super. And now, a no-nonsense parenting moment with Dr. Kevin Leman. Dr. Leman: You know, parents, after your son or daughter completes high school and they’re working, or maybe they’re going to community college part-time or whatever, the question comes up, should your son or daughter pay rent. Maybe. If you’re a kid has taken a big load and they’re living at home and going to school, I wouldn’t think of charging them rent. On the other hand, if my kid has passed up an opportunity to go onto school, they seem to be looking for themselves, and he’s working and not for a lot of money, I would charge him rent because I think it’s important that kids learn early in life that life is free. Dr. Leman: So it’s one of those judgment calls, parents, where if the question is, can I charge my son or daughter rent? Yes, you may, but use your head. One kid might pay rent, the other may not. Well, that’s unfair. Do you really want to treat your kids the same? Oh, boy, I hope not. God created us all differently, so don’t be afraid to teach your kids differently. This is a judgment call, parents, exercise good judgment, and keep that relationship intact with your son or daughter. Doug: So, Dr. Leman, going back to Andrea’s question just a little bit more, vitamin E, how then can we give, so she gave a great example, I’m going to sit with you and read a book. What is it about the right way to encourage the kid that we want to do with our kids? Dr. Leman: Well, if I told everybody praise is destructive, a lot of people wouldn’t believe that, but it is. It says I hold you in high esteem because you did this, because you did that. It’s just part of our culture. All of us grew up with praise or reward or punishment. That’s how we were raised. But using encouragement, what I try to help people understand is you need to really pay attention to the act and not the actor. In other words, I mean, that was so helpful for you to go and get the umbrella for grandma. I know she appreciated that. That’s encouragement. So the focus is on the act, the action. It was helpful that you went and got the umbrella for grandma. It’s not, you’re the best kid in the whole world because you went and got that. There’s a big difference in how kids receive that. Dr. Leman: So again, if you want to read a book that really helps you really get good at that, read the book, Making Children Mind Without Losing Yours. And yes, the book we’re offering has some of that in it as well. But the Making Children Mind Without Losing Yours, there’s another book, sold well over a million copies for a reason. There’s some really good reading there for you as parents. Take advantage of it. My goodness. Doug: So, Dr. Leman here’s my other critique of your advice. This poor little guy, he’s only four-years-old. He’s so tiny that he’ll probably just grow out of this. Why can’t I just be sweet to my four-year-old? He’s only four, Dr. Leman. Dr. Leman: Well, because 80% of his personality is already formed at age four. At age three it’s about 60%. So I’ve often said to adults, the little boy or little girl you once were, guess what, you still are. So those early years, Doug and Andrea, are really important. And that’s why when you see these negative patterns in a three or four-year-old, you want to jump on that. I always said kids are like wet cement, their personalities form so quickly. If you’ve ever worked with wet cement, it’s very malleable. It’s sort of fun. We used to put our initials in it and our girlfriend’s name in the sidewalk, if we could get away with it. But once it hardens up, it’s really hard to do anything with concrete. Dr. Leman: And so that’s a good analogy that kids’ personalities forms early and their behavioral repertoire so to speak develops in those early years. About 18 months is when a kid gets powerful and they realize the little things they do has a great reaction from the parent and that’s where it starts. So those of you who got little nine-month-olds, circle look calendar at 18 months because that little cherub is going to give you a run for your money starting then unless you handle it well. Andrea: So, Dr. Leman, earlier on, you said that she’s going to have to do this a lot for a long time. How long is this going to take? Dr. Leman: Let’s start with this, if you’re really consistent and you really do a five-star job, it doesn’t take long to change a kid’s behavior. I say it with tongue in cheek, you could have a new kid by Wednesday. But the point is that a behavior that you take on well and you’re consistent with it, the kid will fall in line relatively quickly. If you struggle through it and you’re hit and miss, you’re lengthening that out and it could take a long time, and I mean a long time, several months if you don’t do this right. So the key is to be a consistent parent. Let your yes be yes, your no be no. Don’t threaten. Use action. Few words. You’ll get his or her attention real quick. They’ll figure it out. They’re smart little suckers. Andrea: I have another question for you. What do you think of the idea of teaching a child when they want to talk to you to come and put their hand on your arm or something if you’re in another conversation? Dr. Leman: Sure. It’s an easy way. You’re telling your kid, “Okay, here’s the deal. When you want mommy’s attention, you come and touch mommy and what you have to know is I felt your touch. And now your job is to wait patiently until mommy off the phone or ready to talk to you.” So yeah, sometimes that’ll work. It’s a proactive thing you can do. Again, what you’re doing there, Andrea, is you’re exerting your authority and authority has become a bad word in our society, but I believe it’s a great word that every parent and every child has to thoroughly understand. Doug: Well, Rebekah, we really appreciate you asking the question and I think there’s a lot of parents out there that are struggling with this too. Thank you. If you would like to leave a question, you can go to drleman.com/podcastquestion. There’s a microphone, click it, and we would love to answer your question for you. And again, I got to say it, Have a New Kid by Friday for only $2.99 is amazing. Get it between now and the end of December 31st of 2020. Well, it was great to be with you today and add to your parenting toolbox. And we look forward to the next time we get to be with you. Andrea: And Rebekah, it would be fun if you ever called in and told us how you’re doing. Doug: We would love to hear it. Andrea: Thanks for the good question. Doug: Take care. Andrea: Bye-bye.

Is it better to confront the problem with a blowout or to show restraint and let things go? The answer may surprise you. Listen in to today’s episode to learn how you can effectively deal with conflict in your family.     **Special Offer– Dec 1 – 31: The Intimate Connection ebook for $2.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**     Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing Produced by Unmutable Transcript Doug: Is it better to be nice and just kind of let the thing hopefully get better, or do I get to come out with a shotgun and blast them? What does it mean that blowouts are way better than slow leaks? Who wants to cause a blowout, all the shrapnel, and all the craziness of it? It’s better to be nice and hope it goes away. Well, that’s the question we get ask Dr. Leman. What’s his crazy phrase that he uses that blowouts are way better than slow leaks? Hi, I’m Doug Terpening. Andrea: And I’m Andrea. Doug: I and Andrea, Dr. Leman, are so glad that you are with us today. Welcome. If this happens to be your first time we want to let you know this is for your education and entertainment purposes only. If the subject matter raises any concerns for you, or your child, please go seek a local professional for help. Well, Dr. Leman, one of your favorite things to tell us all the time is, Hey, is it better to slow leak it to death or is it better to just have a big blowout?” But, blowouts cause shrapnel, and all sorts of craziness out there? So my question is, A. What does that phrase mean, and why am I going to use it in parenting? Dr. Leman: Let me start with this. For you parents who had a rough school year last year, or you had a rough time with your child’s smart mouth last year, or your husband continued to dish you, or your wife continually hammered you for every small indiscretion on your part, any kind of a booboo you were hammered. I want you to think about that. Now, that was a year ago. Now, is there any difference in any of those relationships today? My point is that whatever was in the past is going to continue, so if you have a kid who is smart mouthed and disrespectful chances are he, or she, is going to continue to be disrespectful and mouthy, or they’ll even increase their maladaptive behaviors. So, my point is, if you’re going to deal with it let’s bring it to a head. Let’s have that blowout. Let’s have that. “Hey, I’m done,” because the other things that you’ve tried, and you talked in your introduction, Doug, about being nice, just letting things go. How’s that working out for you, parent? So, when all of a sudden you hit a kid where it hurts, and that is you don’t let him go to the ballgame. You don’t let him go with his Friends. You don’t let him play next door with his favorite playmate. He doesn’t get to watch whatever. You really, to use a colloquial term, you lower the boom on him, you’re going to get his attention. You’re going to blindside him. He’s going to say, “What the heck is going on here?” At that point, at that blowout, from then on you have to be really consistent, because if you just have a big blowout and get mad and think that somehow that that’s going to turn around behavior you’re mistaken. You have to follow up with sticking to your guns, as I like to say, “without shooting yourself in the foot,” which means your decisions are deliberate, they’re calculated, vitamin N is distributed profusely within your family, which is “no” for you new listeners. Saying no to a child is a wonderful disciplinary measure. So, we have the vitamin E which we talk about a lot, encouraging your child. You want to be an encourager but, again, God did not put you on this earth to be walked over by a smart-mouth, 13-year old, or 11-year old, or 9-year old. So, that’s where forcing the blowout comes from, Doug. It just says, enough is enough, we’re going to turn the good ship family in a new direction. Guess what, parents, you’re the captain, or co-captains, of that family. That’s your job. Doug: So, Andrea, again, you’re the resident mom, and you like to be nice, a lot. Andrea: Well, I don’t think it’s just moms that like to be nice. To me this sounds like starting a fight. Doug: Ooh. Andrea: So, how is that different, Dr. Leman, than either blowing up in anger, because this sounds like, Okay, we’re going have this big, it’s okay for me to blow up in anger and start a fight. How is this different?” Dr. Leman: Well, a couple of things. Remember, fighting’s an act of cooperation. There could be no fight unless two people want a fight. Number two, we’re not talking about anger, we’re talking about an abrupt change in your demeanor, and your behavior. So, it’s not a matter of fighting. Is that child, young lady or young man, are they going to like this? No, because you’ve blindsided them, and for 9 years, or 11 years, you’ve tolerated this. You’ve done everything. You’ve been that kind, wonderful mom who’s probably, in retrospect, done way too much for that young woman or young man. Now they’re getting into those years where, and by the way if you’ve never read Planet Middle School, that’s a wonderful read for you parents who are getting into the 6th, 7th, 8th grades, the middle school wonder years. That’ll help set you straight. There’s also a book called Have a New Teenager By Friday, which is an award-winning book that everybody loves. So, there are ways to get the kid’s attention, or the person’s attention, that says, “I’m done. I’ve had it. I am very unhappy.” So, there’s a difference between being mad and blowing up and telling your kids. “I am very unhappy with what’s happening in this home,” because kids don’t like that. That’s what you have to keep in mind. Doug: So, Dr. Leman, there’s some people that they can’t get there until they’re so wound up that they have had enough of this, right? How does that person address this without the anger part coming with it, or not even the anger part just the, what is that, the poor delivery of it? Andrea: Just the emotional outburst. Dr. Leman: Well, again, if you’re lucky enough to have a partner in life, and you’ve got that husband, or your wife, this is a time where if you know that you have a short fuse, and your way of dealing things is to tuck things under, tuck things under, and then have the big explosion, you are not the person to be able to throw that switch, it’s got to be your mate. The one that has a much more tempered approach to life who has to say, “I’m done. I’m unhappy.” In fact, you can replace the I with the we. A wound-up person can take some notes from the more level-headed, even-tempered mate, to be the forerunner here, because what you don’t want to do is just spark rebellion in a kid’s life who’s already got a rebellious streak. Andrea: So, you wouldn’t recommend this to anyone who already has a short temper? Dr. Leman: Well, let’s take the single mom who has a short temper. She doesn’t have any choice, but she better do some, whatever it takes. When something starts to happen with the children, okay, single mom, you’re a veteran mom, you’ve been a mom for nine years. You’ve seen how these things escalate. So, as soon as something starts I want you to act, because if you wait your rubber band is just going to get wound up tighter and tighter and it’s not going to have a good result. So, it’s action, not words. The more action you make as a parent, and you show the kids that things are changing, the more they’re going to pay attention to what you have to say. So, it’s action, and then words. Andrea: What you’re advocating is that you’re forcing a blowout. What do you mean by that? Dr. Leman: When do you want this to end? Do you want this bickering that gives you a lump in your stomach every night and a headache, do you want it to continue the next 30 days, or would you rather have it end tonight? That’s my question. That’s why I advocate the blowout, because the quicker the better. Doug: Why are we as parents so reticent for the blowouts, or really to just confront them, that we just hope it kind of goes away? Dr. Leman: Well, I think because we want to be our child’s best friends. That’s prevalent in our society. Most kids are reared to think they’re the center of the universe. Some of these kids, I mean, they ought to be in drama in school, because they’re drama queens and drama kings. They play you like a fiddle. My latest book, Why Kids Misbehave and What To Do About It, is loaded with example after example about how parents just cave in. They’re actually the ones that teach their kids how to misbehave. Now, think about that what I’m saying. Hey parent, you’re the one that has taught your kid to misbehave through faulty parenting, through faulty assumptions on your part. You’re the creator of this. You’re the conductor of the family orchestra. When you owe up to that then you’ll be ready to pull off the blowout and feel better about it. Doug: Well, I think we should give people an example of what a blowout would look like versus a slow leak. Before we do that, this is like perfect timing to be honest, the ebook for this week is Have a New Kid by Friday. So, wherever you get your eBooks, however, you get them, from Kindle’s, through NOOK’s, to whatever, for $2.99 you can get it between now and the end of December 2020. This is perfect if you’re trying to figure out how to do blowouts. What did they say about it, Andrea? Andrea: Evan says, “Possibly the last parenting book you will need. If you have a child who challenges every aspect of your parenting, or even any aspect of your parenting, I highly recommend this book. This quite possibly will be the last parenting book you will need. I’m pretty sure it’s the last one I will need. My young twins, age four, were transformed in about a week, and others who know them well commented on it.” Doug: So, this is the book that got us launched down this road. I cannot say enough good things about it, that if you want the confidence to have the blowouts get the book. Now, a no-nonsense parenting moment with Dr. Kevin Leman. Dr. Leman: Parents, one of the smartest things I ever did was take my daughter out of the gifted program at school. I know there’s parents right now are cringing hearing me say that, because you’re so proud that your little Drucilla is gifted. Well, one of the things we know about gifted children is that they have the highest incidence of mental illness, there’s a corollary there between the two. In my estimation, if a son or daughter has to travel to another school that would be lockdown, “No, it’s not going to happen.” I’m going to keep my child in the local school. I think gifted programs are overblown. Are some of them great? They are, but there’s an awful lot of them that I don’t think do your son or daughter a great service. Is your son or daughter a reader, do they achieve on their own, do they dig for information? Keep them where they are. Doug: Dr. Leman, so let’s do an example, a role-playing, of how a slow leak would look different to a parent. So, let’s say, what’s a good example, Andrea, chores? Andrea: Chores are always great. Doug: Chores are always great. Andrea: Not doing their chores. Doug: Not do their chores. Sally is supposed to always be doing the dishes, and she’s a one out of seven days kind of a dishes person. So, if you’re the parent, and you’re going to do a blowout instead of just doing the dishes yourself, how would this sound and what would it look like? Dr. Leman: Well, let’s set up the situation where mom comes in and the dishes, which were not done last night, are still sitting there. Let’s start with that. Doug: Okay. Dr. Leman: The kids are home. The daughter just came in from volleyball practice, and the son just came in from his activity, and everybody is glad it’s the end of the day. What everybody’s got on their mind is food, hunger, and maybe it’s 14-year-old son that goes bouncing in and says, “Mom, mom, I’m starving. What’s for dinner?” Now, here’s the blowout. “Honey. I don’t have a clue what’s your dinner, but I am very, very upset to walk in here and see these dishes still here. I work all day, so does your dad. To come home to this really makes me angry. Your dad and I are going out,” and get in the car and leave. I don’t care if you have to go down to Denny’s and get the Grand Slam. That forces a blowout. How do the kids feel? Do the kids feel good about themselves? Do they have positive regard? Good self-esteem? No, they’re very upset because mom just laid it on the line and said, “Hey, I am very unhappy.” That’s all she had to say. She didn’t have to start a fight. She didn’t have to lose her temper. She just said it with authority and, again, that’s a God-given right, parent, that you get from Almighty God to be in healthy authority over your children. So, let’s fast forward after we’ve had our little treat down at Denny’s, and an hour and a half later you come home. Here’s my question. Are the dishes cleaned? Doug: Did the kids do them? Andrea: Yeah, they did. Doug: Oh yeah, they did. Dr. Leman: Oh yeah. Well, that’s what I’m saying. In 99% of those cases those dishes will be cleaned. Now, if they weren’t cleaned, ut oh, now we really are setting into a power struggle here. Again, you got to be careful how you do this one. Trust me kids love maid service, and that’s what many kids get in our homes across America is maid service. Parents do way too much for their kids. Their laundry is laundered perfectly and put in their drawers, and all that. When all those things come together and start stopping, the kid is really going to notice. Is he going to be happy about this? No, but you continue to express your dissatisfaction with their willingness to pull their weight in your home. So again, usually with most kids when you just pull a rug out and let that little buzzard tumble at that point. Like, “Hey, we’re out of here,” and they know that you’re upset, usually that will take that kid who’s been lazy, to call a spade a spade, and they’ve shirken their responsibilities, that alone will usually get a kid back in line. Doug: So Dr. Leman, I got a little confession here. Why does that sound so harsh to even me, just to be like, “Wow, we’re disappointed and we’re going to dinner.” Dr. Leman: Some of you are thinking, “Hey, Leman, couldn’t you do better than Denny’s?” Yeah, go wherever you want. Name the kid’s favorite restaurant if you want, I don’t care. It sounds rough, I guess, because that’s not what parents do today. They’re into, “Brittany, have you chosen to go to bed yet?” I mean, it’s crazy. We’re permissive parents for the most part, and within the Christian community there’s a lot of authoritarian parents around who are just way over the top. They try to just control everything their kids do, and that does, as we’ve talked about many times, plant the seeds of rebellion in a child’s life. You said it before, Doug, about Have a New Kid by Friday. Hey, parents, I’ve written a lot of books on parenting, but what that one person said is, “Hey, you’ll never need another parenting book if you read Have a New Kid by Friday.” I believe it’s true. That’s a book that will get your child’s attention. It’ll empower you to realize that you are in healthy authority over your kids. It’s jammed full of examples of how to handle about everything that’s going to come your way. So, we’re downloading it for 2.99 to you. My goodness, take advantage of that. Tell your friends about that one. Doug: You know, the other thing … Yeah, it’s, oh it’s phenomenal, and the whole back half is great. The other thing that I think that parents need to know, because Andrea and I have done a couple of blowouts with our kids, is how many times do you have to do it to get the kids’ attention? Is it 1, 20, 100? Dr. Leman: I think your average is once. It’s not many. I mean, I think you get a kid’s attention real quickly when you stick to your guns. Doug: Well, that’s what I was going to say. Most of our blowouts, we’ve only had to do it one time. The interesting thing you say about that is, now that our kids are a little bit older they’ll even reference that blowout time as the time to be like, “Yeah, that’s when we realized we were doing something wrong.” Dr. Leman: Let me add one other thing. I know a lot of people are not avid readers, to read a book for them is sort of a chore. I’ll just make mention of this, if you would like a DVD, we have a six-part DVD on Have a New Kid by Friday. It’s available at drleman.com. I think the cost is $25, drleman.com. You just got to spell Leman right, L-E-M-A-N. So, you might have a spouse who isn’t going to read that book, and you’d love them to read it, but they might take a look at this DVD series. It’s been very, very popular. The nice thing about DVDs is you can play them over, and over, and over again till you get it down. Andrea: So, I’m just trying to replay how this blow out goes in my mind, to wrap things up for myself, and for everyone. The key is that you are making a change in the way you normally treat a situation, and that you are going to just be abrupt, and you’re going to be authoritative about your decision, and you’re not going to let them drag you into a fight. Did I get that right? Dr. Leman: You got a five star on that one, Miss Andrea. Doug: Andrea, we’re going to Denny’s after that. Way to go, Sweetie. Andrea: Woo-hoo. Dr. Leman: That’s one of my favorite jokes, by the way. Sometimes I’ll tell people. “Yeah. I took my wife out to dinner to a really nice restaurant, and it really ticked me off she ordered the most expensive thing on the menu. Yeah, she ordered the Grand Slam.” Doug: Well, for all you parents out there, this is one of those phrases that helped Andrea and I. We even know it works and yet we still need to be re-reminded blowouts are way better than slow leaks. Slow leaks don’t work. You think you’re hinting at your children, and you think you’re hinting at your mate. It doesn’t work. Be direct. Blowouts are beautiful, and you only have to do them once. Andrea: I don’t know if beautiful is the way I would describe them. Doug: It’s not the word you would describe them? Andrea: Yeah. Doug: Yeah. But you only have to do them once, and it doesn’t harm your relationship with your kids and all that craziness that we’re afraid of. So, great. Well, and honestly to feel even more confident about blowouts go get the book, Have a New Kid by Friday. It’s fabulous to give you confidence on how to stick to your guns to do the right thing. So, it was great to be with you and add to that parenting toolbox. If you want the DVDs, go to drleman.com and get them there, as well. If someone’s not a reader and wants to watch it while they’re running on the treadmill, or on a Saturday night, I highly recommend it. Well, it’s great to be with you to add to your parenting toolbox. Andrea: Have a great week. Doug: Take care. Bye-bye.

It’s time for another Ask Dr. Leman: “My teenagers fight like dogs. What should I do?” Listen in to find out Dr. Leman’s response on today’s episode of Have a New Kid by Friday Podcast.   **Special Offer– Nov 1 – 30: The Intimate Connection ebook for $1.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**     Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing Produced by Unmutable Transcript Doug: “I hate you. You are an idiot, you are stupid, and I never want to see you again.” These are the words that Sommer, I imagine, hears from her two kids. And she says, “Help. My kids fight like dogs, and I don’t know what to do. How do I get them to like each other?” Well, that’s the question that Sommer asks that we get to ask Dr. Leman. Hi, I’m Doug Terpening. Andrea: And I’m Andrea. Doug: And we are really glad that you are with us this beautiful day and want to let you know if it’s your first time, this is for your education and entertainment purposes only. If the subject matter raises any concerns for you or your child, please visit your local professional for help. Well, let’s hear what Sommer’s question is about her kids’ fighting. Sommer: Hi, Dr. Leman. My name is Sommer. I’m from Missouri. I have a 15-year-old daughter and a 13-year-old son. We found Have a New Teenager about three months ago, and it has been amazing in the transformation of my daughter’s reaction and responding to us. However, the relationship between my two kiddos is horrible. My daughter has been mean to my son since he’s been born. And of course, we would get onto her immediately whenever these things would happen. Fast forward 13 years, and they both are saying and hitting each other and just being really horrible all the time to each other. We don’t take sides. So both of them will typically either get sent outside if we’re at home. But there are times I’m just about to pull my hair out because they cannot seem to ever say anything or do anything nice for each other. So how, as a parent, can me and my husband foster their relationship now, going forward? Any help would be great. Dr. Leman: Okay, Sommer. Thank you so much for that question. 15-year-old girl. I love… I’m just quoting you, Sommer, “She’s been mean to him since he was born.” So the little princess heard that she was going to get the special present. The special present came home, and she figured out this guy is nothing but trouble, “He is competition to my throne of queen of the home.” And, again, I’m just using your words, whenever she was on him and nasty to him, you were right back on her. And what’s happened here, and you have to admit, you sort of trained her, that one of the ways she’ll get your undivided attention is if she’s mean to little Brutus, her brother. So that’s what you’re up to, historically. Now the good news is I want everybody to hear what you said. You found Have a New Teenager by Friday. Now, I’m not smoking you. That is the best little book. You have a teenager. If you got a middle-schooler, read Planet Middle School, and if you want to graduate from Planet Middle School, read the book that Sommer has just referenced, Have a New Teenager by Friday. Yes, you’re familiar with Have a New kid by Friday as well and Have a New Husband by Friday, Have a New You by Friday. Yeah, I get it, I got hung up on Friday, but my point is that these kinds of issues can be dealt with practically. Now, you’re asking for the miracle of how do we get these kids to really love on each other? Well, I’m going to make a brave statement. They do love each other. Right now, they love each other. They’re brother and sister. They fight like cats and dogs. I get it, but they still love each other. When somebody picks on little brother, sister will be there to defend him, believe it or not, and vice versa. And as a predictor of great things to happen, the day is coming, Sommer, when those kids will be in each other’s weddings. The bad news is that’s probably about 10 years away or more. In the meantime, your question is, “How do I foster, as husband and wife, a better relationship between those two?” Well, you’re not going to have a lot of success with that, quite frankly. Those of you who heard my podcasts over the years are maybe raising an eyebrow on that one, but these kids are very close in age. They’re obviously competitive. It’s not going to turn into a love fest, but I want to tell you straight out, one of the things that got my attention when you first started asking your question is you held both of them accountable. And so to answer your question, I would suggest you continue to do so, keeping in mind that fighting’s an act of cooperation. You said you didn’t pick sides. That’s step two. I mean, you’ve got the book, you’re taking the right steps. What you need is time and maturity. Stick to your guns. Don’t try to figure out whoever did what. Let both of them pay, so to speak. You mentioned putting them outside. I love that idea. Canceling an event that you were going to go to, they were going to enjoy is good, because “I’m just so sick of you guys going after each other. I don’t have the emotional courage to get in the car and drive anywhere right now,” those kind of things. So the kids see there’s a direct connection between their misbehavior and your non-compliance to make their life a little nicer and better. So that is the prescription that I would write for you, Sommer. I’m telling you, I don’t think things are going to be night and day different in two weeks. I think they’re going to go after each other. I think it’s going to lessen in time. And you’re already on a good trajectory here, you’re a good mom, you’re doing the right things, not holding them accountable, not picking sides. And I’d be very matter of fact about, “You two are horrible to each other. It’s disgusting that you don’t have enough self-worth to be kind to one another.” I’d say some things like that once in a while. I wouldn’t harp on it. It wouldn’t be every day, but they would get the gist that I’m very unhappy, we’re very unhappy with how things are, okay? The kids are after each other just before dinner, throw out the white flag, say, “Come on, John, get in the car.” Take your husband out and get a bite to eat. Let the kids stand there and look at each other and make sure they clean up the kitchen when they’re done with whatever they did, that kind of an approach. What do you guys think? Doug: Well, I’m raising an eyebrow. Like you said that we would, both Andrea and I did, in the fact that you said it’s not going to get better, even if you apply these principles. Why is it not going to get better? Dr. Leman: They’re exhibiting competitive behavior. Okay? I did say it’ll get better over time, but it’s not going to get instantly better. She’s doing everything she should be doing. She’s holding both of them accountable. She’s not taking sides. She realized this has gone on forever. If it’s gone on forever from day one, it’s not going to change right now. They’re in the height of adolescence. This is when kids are probably the meanest to each other. Those ages are tough ages. I tried to call a spade, a spade and say, “They really do love each other.” If somebody from the outside comes in and tries to hurt one another, they’ll be the first to defend them. And they will be in each other’s wedding someday. So stay the course, do the best you can. When it gets too much, you put them outside or you take a powder for a while. Let them suffer the consequences. Let them understand you’re unhappy. Andrea: Is there any creative thing that they could do as parents with their kids to put them in a situation where they have to depend on each other a little more? I don’t know, like, “Okay, we’re going river rafting. And if you don’t do your part, this is scary, and everybody’s…” Things that pull people together. Dr. Leman: You got me laughing because that’s the last place I’d take them is river rafting. I wouldn’t take these two miserable kids to anything, let alone river rafting. That costs big money. It’s a great adventure. I know where you’re going with it, trying to put them in a situation where they need each other. Well, they do need each other. They really do. They haven’t figured out that fighting’s an act of cooperation. If one of them decided not to fight any longer, think about this, if one of them, either the 13-year-old refused to fight, or the 15-year-old refused to fight, guess what? There wouldn’t be any fighting in the family. It takes two to fight. You have to know exactly what to say to escalate the battle. And these kids are really good at it. So, again, “If you two want to fight, fight outside.” I’d grab them by the arm. I’d put them outside. I’d lock the door. You say it’s raining. I don’t care. I put them outside. Let them argue in the rain. A guy made a million dollars, singing a song about singing in the rain. Let them go fight in the rain. It’s okay. So there’s there’s action-oriented things you can do as a parent that just says, “Hey, you crossed the line here.” Okay? But, again, I wouldn’t look for a Cinderella story here where everything flips in short period of time. Doug: Yeah. I have a question about how I can make it more peaceful. But before I do that, I don’t want to forget, you get a few more days that you can get the book Intimate Connection for $1.99 between now and the end of November of 2020, wherever eBooks are sold. Dr. Leman, my question for you is, who is the intimate connection for? Is it for healthy marriages? Is it for those that are just slightly off? Would it help people that are in divorce? Who’s this book for? Dr. Leman: Well, I think it’s a marriage book that anybody about to get married ought to read. If you’ve walked down the aisle, and you’re finding that marriage isn’t exactly what you thought it would be, it’s for you. If you weathered the storm for over seven years… And by the way, that’s the average marriage today in our country, lasts about seven years, and you’re done. Or if you’ve been at it a long time, and it just seems like it’s hopeless, The Intimate Connection is a wonderful resource. It gets you down to the brass tacks real early in the book about what a good marriage looks like, gives you ways to get there, and I think more than anything else, it gives you hope that things could change, if you’re willing to do some change on your part. Doug: So get it wherever you get your eBooks between now and the end of November of 2020. And now, a no-nonsense parenting moment with Dr. Kevin Leman. Dr. Leman: Parents, in life, your son, or daughter’s going to run into bad things, bad situations, bad environments, bad friends. And as a parent, it’s real easy to feel like you’re the puppeteer, and you’re going to pull strings and just make things happen. Sometimes kids really have to figure out that maybe the kids they hung around with weren’t the best. In fact, I know a young lady, she’s just 14 years old, who told me, she said, “I think I want to enjoy meeting some new friends this year. I think some of those older friends have really taken me down.” And I thought, “Wow, what an insightful young kid.” If there’s a kid your kid’s running with that you’re suspect of, have them over to the house, bring them over for dinner, eyeball them, and make sure that you’re eyeballing appropriately, that you’re really seeing things as it is. Get your husband’s opinion, older sister, older brother, anybody. Am I saying to let your kids just run wild with kids that are a poor influence? No, I’m not, but I’m saying you just can’t pull a rug out and try to control every kid’s friendship, or it’s going to backfire. Doug: Okay, Andrea, let’s be honest. If these were our children, the question I’d be asking you, Dr. Leman, is, “I got to get some peace around here. This is just driving me nuts. I can’t even handle it. How can I get some semblance of peace? I’m just tired of the bickering.” Dr. Leman: If you want behavioristic measures to deal with kids, again, listen to what mom says about her children. Okay? This is a quote from Sommer, “They’re horrible.” You got horrible kids. As soon as they start horrible behavior, if I’m the parent, I’m putting them outside. Okay, I’m physically putting them outside. If I, as a mom, can’t do it, and dad’s nearby, he can do it. I just tell them, “You can fight all night out there. You can yell and scream. You can hit each other, do whatever you want to do.” That’s how I would deal with it. In other words, you can’t fight in the house. You want to fight? You have to fight outside. That’s how I’d deal with it. But, again, you just got to realize this has gone on from birth. And obviously 15-year-old feels threatened. If there’s ever a conversation where she’s really open to what you’re talking about, you need to explore why she feels the way she does. “Well, he bothers me. He’s always here. He’s always doing this. He’s always doing that.” “No, honey, no, you were the queen. And then he came along, and you decided there wasn’t enough love in mom and dad to share with little brother, that you needed all the hugs.” She needs to be pointed out, the 15-year-old, how selfish she is. She’s a selfish 15-year-old girl. She cannot be a pleasure to be around. I can’t imagine that she’s hitting it off on all eight cylinders in school, because that would get a little old. She must be a drama queen. I mean, so that conversation comes, but only after you have willing ears on the other side of the conversation. It’s not something as a parent, you’re just going to magically create kids who are kind to each other. That’s why I say it’s got to run its course, which it will. But at some point you have to have that conversation about your selfish nature. For both of them, they’re both selfish. Fighting’s an act of cooperation. Kids need to understand that. Doug: Yeah. So, Andrea, you are a little more tenderhearted, compassionate. Could you put John and Carly outside when they’re fighting, say, “You can fight as much as you want, but get out of here and do it.” Andrea: Well, it’s hard to imagine that ’cause I haven’t had to deal with that. I think that if I was fed up with it, I could. Doug: What would you need to be able to be that? Andrea: To be fed up with it. Doug: So just, “I’m done, and I can do this.” Andrea: Yeah. Doug: Okay. Andrea: Yeah. Doug: Great. Wow. Don’t do that to me. Andrea: I mean, if it was 20 degrees outside, that would be a different story. Doug: Well, Sommer, we really appreciate your question. And, again, I couldn’t encourage you enough to go get the book, Have a New Teenager by Friday. So much of this is about having the confidence that, “I can do this, and it’s going to turn out well for me.” I’ve said repeatedly, the best thing about doing this podcast and these books is how much it’s helped my parenting and Andrea’s parenting to know that we can do these things, and it works. I’m just telling you. And you don’t have to do it very often. You just have to do it one, maybe two times. In your case, you’ve done it a whole bunch, so you’ve got a few more attempts to change it. But for most of us, it’s surprising how few times you have to put them outside for them to get the message that Mom’s done, Dad’s done with this. So I encourage you to get that book, and you can get Intimate Connection between now and the end of November of 2020 for $1.99. Well, it was great to be with you. Oh, and I want to remind you, go to birthorderguy.com/podcastquestion, birthorderguy.com/podcastquestions, and put your questions in here, and we’d love to answer it for you. Well, it was great to be with you and add to your parenting toolbox so that you can love those kids more and more. Andrea: Thanks for coming along with us today. Doug: Have a great day. Take care. Andrea: Bye-bye.

Do you and your spouse disconnect when it comes to parenting? Listen in to today’s episode to discover how to communicate and cooperate with your spouse when it comes to parenting.     **Special Offer– Nov 1 – 30: The Intimate Connection ebook for $1.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**     Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing Produced by Unmutable Transcript Doug: How in the world do I get my spouse to be on the same page with me in parenting? I mean, they do everything to undermine my parenting. I serve good food. They serve bad food. I try and have real conversations and they’re always telling us what’s too serious. How, Dr. Leman, can I possibly parent when we’re on the opposite sides of the spectrum? Oh, that’s the question we get to ask Dr. Leman today. Hi, I’m Doug Terpening. Andrea: And, I’m Andrea. Doug: And it is so great to be with you today. Welcome. And if this happens to be your first time with us, we want to let you know this is for your education and entertainment purposes only. If the subject matter raises any concerns for you or your child, please go seek a local professional for help. Well, Dr. Leman, today’s question is one of the classics. How do I get my kid to eat? How do I get my kid to stay in their bed? And how do I get my spouse on the same page in parenting? Why is this such a common question, and what can we do about it? Dr. Leman: Well, believe it or not, Doug and Andrea, it’s a sign of competition in a marriage. Okay. I always love to ask couples the question, who’s winning your marriage? And they sort of look at you with a startled look, what do you mean winning the marriage? Well, who’s winning? Who gets their way? Who’s calling the shots? And see to anybody who’s asked the question, how do I get my spouse to be on the same page, I want to go back and ask the question, wait a minute, have you two ever been on the same page about anything? And my findings anecdotally have been that the answer to that is no, we never have been on the same page. So the question that comes up, how do I get my spouse on the same page is just the result of, hey, now we have children and I can obviously see the great differences in how we see life in terms of I’m law and order, toe the line, authoritarian-based parent and my husband is I didn’t hear that bomb go off. He’s permissive. He gives kids third and fourth chances. He can’t hold them accountable for anything. Dr. Leman: Well, to really answer that question, we do have a book called the Intimate Connection and another one called The Birth Order Book, which are two great books to read to really get to that question because you, as a spouse have learned to be the person you are from guess who? Your mom and dad, your siblings, that dynamic fluid relationship that exists from the time you’re born to the time you leave the nest and go off the service or get a job, college, or marry. But when you are in an intimate connection, like a marriage, these things are just glaring out at you. You can not ignore the fact that you two see life completely different. Dr. Leman: And it really tests, I think, the very essence of how strong your marital bond is. And a lot of people marry for the wrong reasons, out of insecurities. I would suggest to anybody who’s asking that question to do some real soul searching. You want to read a good book on marriage, The Intimate Connection. Another one that’s a great book to read is called Sheet Music, which is a sexual guide for couples, but that gets into the basics of what marriage is all about. And then family systems, the system that you came out of, the beliefs you thought about life, how you tackled all the problems that came your way, you’ll find solutions and good information as to why you are the way you are today in that little Birth Order book. Dr. Leman: So I’ve always said, “Yeah, you can run to a shrink at 350 an hour or whatever, or you can do some self-shrinking at home. Do some reading. Try to put together the puzzle as to why you are the way you are. Because when you say to your husband turn left, he automatically says, no, we’re going to turn right. And that division gets wider and wider and wider and it builds up a wall, a wall that’s cemented by the mortar of indifference, and sooner or later, you’ll get to that place, folks, where that wall is, you’ll be unable to penetrate it and you’ll be strangers. You won’t have a shred of intimacy in your life, and you’ll be lucky to stay married. If you stay married, it will be for the sake of the children, et cetera. I’ve heard that way too many times. So it’s a serious question, okay? Dr. Leman: If you’re talking about techniques, realize that the fighting you do is an act of cooperation. You have to understand that both of you own this thing, it’s not just one person. And when I say fighting’s an act of cooperation, I mean, you have to know exactly what to say to escalate the battle. For example, if your wife says something is really off the wall and you said to her, “Wow, never thought of it that way,” that doesn’t escalate. Do you see what I’m saying? So you come up with some ways of not getting in each other’s face immediately, but trying to hear the other person out and get behind the other person’s eyes and see how they see life. Because the two of you are not going to see life the same, but you need to live harmoniously, not only for the sake of your marriage but for the sake of your children, because that breeds security in kids. I’ll shut up and let you guys give your insight into what I just said, Andrea and Doug. Andrea: Well, I was just wondering what are some practical steps that can be taken to break down that wall that might be developing? Dr. Leman: Well, the first one we’ve already mentioned, that is don’t be so quick to jump on everything. The wow, that’s interesting, tell me more about that. Now, tell me more about that, you talk about a technique, this is in gold. Instead of saying to your husband, “Well, why would you say that?” As soon as you say why to a man you’ve lost him. His defenses are up. He’s going to defend himself and this conversation’s going nowhere. He says something and you say, “Interesting, tell me more about that.” Now, how hard is that to memorize? And that gives that man an opportunity to reach in and literally tell you what’s going on in his head. And then after you’ve listened to what he says, a simple, “Okay, let me see if I have this right,” and then restate to him what you just heard him say. And then again, husbands, if when she restates it, it’s not exactly what you meant, then clarify it. And you volley back and forth using that paradigm and you’ll get to the real issue, whatever it might be. Dr. Leman: But again, I go back to it’s competition in marriage. And you see it in couples all the time, they correct each other, overcorrect each other, put each other down very subtly sometimes. It just leads to an unhappy environment. And you don’t hang out with people who make you feel uncomfortable. Let me say that again. You don’t hang out with people who make you feel uncomfortable. If your wife makes you feel uncomfortable, you’re going to start hanging out with other people. If your husband makes you feel uncomfortable, you’re going to do your best to avoid him. And that’s how you get to divorce real simply. Andrea: So Doug, is it true that when I asked you why, that drives you away? Doug: Oh, without a doubt, yeah. It’s so hard for me to talk. Period. And I’m pretty high on the scale of emotionally available men, but you push too much and I just shut down. It’s just way too hard. Yeah. Andrea: So, Dr. Lehman’s recommending thing, “Oh, wow, that’s interesting. Tell me more,” would that be more inviting to you? Doug: Oh, without a doubt. And I would carefully give you one more quasi-thing about what I really think. Andrea: In your response to me? Doug: Yep. And then see how you respond. And if you attack me, I’m shutting up and leaving. I’m not staying to fight. I can’t fight. Dr. Leman: How about this one, Doug, I need your help with something? Doug: Oh, really. I’m there. What do you mean? Dr. Leman: See, a man wants to feel needed. And today’s marital mate seems to be very, very self-sufficient, whether you’re a man or a woman. And I think there’s something wonderful about getting to a point in your marriage where you realize I need this other person who sees life differently than me, who has different tastes and different beliefs. I mean, you’re not clones of each other. So trying to get behind each other’s eyes as I like to say, and understand where someone’s coming from is really important. Doug, what’s the date today, broadcast-wise? Doug: November 17th. Dr. Leman: Perfect. This is so perfect because in real-time, we’re not far from that. But I want to share something with you that happened with the Lemans. Okay. I am planning on a fishing trip in April with a high school buddy who I love. He is so much fun. He was fun in high school and he’s still fun today as an old guy. And we were going to go up and fish in the San Juan River in New Mexico. Well, the coronavirus has taken its toll up there and the governor has an opened up the place where we want to go fishing. So now I’m looking at alternative places. There’s a place called Lee’s Ferry up near Page, Arizona, right up on the Utah border. It’s about a six-hour drive from where I live. And it’s trophy fishing. You get a guide. You’re in the Colorado River. It’s a beautiful country. I’ve never been up there. So I wanted to take a ride up there. I’ve been anxious to do a little traveling in the car. Dr. Leman: And I said to Mrs. Uppington, I said, “Honey, how would you like to take a ride with me up to Page, Arizona?” “Where’s Page, Arizona?” I said, “Honey, it’s up on the Utah, Arizona border.” “I can’t go anywhere right now. The holidays are coming.” This is a quote, “The holidays are coming.” I asked that question about October 18th or 19th. The holidays are coming. I mean, it was like mother hen was now molting and losing her feathers before my eyes. I mean, it was just how could you possibly suggest that I could take an overnight? It’d be up overnight, stay at a hotel, come back the next day. Now, I’m telling you, I know this woman. I can watch a TV program with her and I know the split second that tears going to come over that eyelid. I know her that well. And quite frankly, I should have never asked the question because once October 1st rolls around, she is completely controlled by the holidays. The house has to look like Disney Land, okay? Dr. Leman: Right now, it’s got remnants of a little ghost flying through the window. I’m looking at it and there’s a big sign that says “get spooked” next to it, whatever that means. And we got grandchildren, so she does a lot of that stuff for the grandchildren. But it’s crazy. I know that woman, I should have never asked that question. Does it make any sense whatsoever that she couldn’t take an overnight and pause for a couple of days? No. It makes no sense whatsoever. Of course, she could. But I know her well enough to know at this time of year, all of the sudden, I don’t know if it’s sugar plums dancing in her head or whatever it is, but she gets it in her mind, and of course, the kids are coming for Thanksgiving, most of them, and then all of them are coming for Christmas, so she’s already in high gear. Dr. Leman: I went to take the garbage out early this morning. Now here’s a real fact from a Leman’s house. At five o’clock this morning, I took the garbage out and I put it in the back of her Highlander and I drove it down the road. It’s quite a ways down to the garbage place. But when I opened the back seat, I thought, oh, no, what is that? That’s what I said to myself. Oh, what is that? And I don’t know, she’s got umpteen more decorations in there. The garages are full of decorations. So I’m just telling you, I’m a psychologist, I wrote the books, I ask the stupid questions too. I should know better, okay? At this time of year, when she’s molting, I just got to let her molt. So there it is full disclosure on our podcast. Doug: So, Dr. Leman, now that you’re laying down on the couch, should we go through some more therapy sessions with you while you’re confessing? Dr. Leman: Well, the bottom line is we’re working toward the intimate connection. And the intimate connection is that ability just to be on a same tone, the same heartbeat as your mate. I’m the first to tell you that most couples don’t have that. The great majority of couples do not have that. Is it something that’s worthy of working toward? Very much so. Can you get there? You can, with hard work, with full disclosure, with honesty, and transparency on both of your parts. That little Intimate Connection book I’m telling you, it is worth the price. I don’t know, I think we’re giving it away at a $1.99 this month or something like that, whatever it is. But that is a powerful little book. If you know that your marriage could use just a little help, jump on that book, jump on that opportunity. Doug: Well, with that said, it is, you’re right. Between now and the end of November of 2020, wherever eBooks are sold, you can get it for a mere buck-99. And, Margaret, wrote in something, Andrea. Andrea: Yeah, this is what Margaret says, “Secrets to a Lifelong Romance. What does it look like to own your own junk and become a healthy individual mentally and emotionally so that you can relate on a better level with others, specifically your spouse in this one. Dr. Lehman covers 13 secrets to lifelong romance starting with changing ourselves first, then identifying what outside forces have shaped us and what kind of preconceived notions do we hold onto. He does a great job of helping the reader see how this is impacting them and their spouse. Doug: So wherever you get your eBooks, get it now. There’s only a little bit of time left between now and the end of November of 2020. And now, a no-nonsense parenting moment with Dr. Kevin Leman. Dr. Leman: I get questions frequently about appropriate dress. What’s appropriate? I get these from people in schools, teachers, administrators, I get them from parents. Here’s my tip on inappropriate clothing. Be the parent you need to be. If something is inappropriately worn, the next thing in life, whatever it is, for example, catching the school bus, being driven to school does not happen. So, parent, you’re the ones. Don’t rely upon the school. School’s got way too many rules. But you can have rules, general rules about looking appropriate, not looking for appropriate. All I’m asking you to do is exercise your God-given parental control, a simple, “Honey, the car’s not leaving until you change. That’s mighty inappropriate.” Now, they’ll fight you. They’ll have a blowout. If they’re late for school, let them be late. Call school and tell them they’re late. Ask if they’ll talk to your daughter about being on time next time. There’s a lot of ways to skin the proverbial cat. But inappropriate dress is not allowable in your home. Doug: Okay, Dr. Leman, you had your moment on the couch. Now, it’s Andrea and I’s turn for our moment on the couch. Are you ready, Andrea? So here’s our big fear in what you’re talking about, about getting on the same page and stop competing is, we are both afraid that we are going to get walked over by the other person, that we have our desires, we have our things we’d like to do, and they’re not the same, right? Andrea wants to do gardening and I want to go loud and explosive. And how do we get over that fear that we’re just going to have to give everything up for the other person so that we can have this intimate connection? Dr. Leman: Well, I think it’s a age-old concept of putting each other first. I think that takes a mental toughness on your part. We’re all hedonistic people. I’ll tell you one of the things that, and this is just self-disclosure that I keep reminding me about in my own life is, God hates pride. Pride is really easy. It’s really easy to get full of yourself, to think only of yourself. I was at the gas station the other day and this guy behind me, he was pretty old and he was really moving slow. And it just warmed my heart, the guy up from behind me, the guy behind him, we were at a Costco. If you ever bought gas at Costco, you know those lines can be long because I paid a $1.75 for the gas to give you an idea, a gallon. But this younger guy jumps out of a Jeep and he says to this guy, “Can I help you with that, sir?” Dr. Leman: And it just warmed my heart to see that. Mrs. Uppington, the lady I’m married to, is famous for buying someone lunch. She loves Starbucks. She’s always buying Starbucks for people. I don’t know how she does that. I don’t know how she estimates what they order or whatever, but somehow she gets it done. But it’s just what I’m saying is I think it’s basic commitment to really honoring this woman, honoring this man you live with and doing things that you know pleases him, pleases her. Dr. Leman: And, here’s the kicker. The important statement here is you don’t have to love doing that, you just have to do it. And that’s, I think, what part of sacrificial love is all about, servant love is all about. You want what’s best for him. You want what’s best for her. So there’s times you say … And you do things. You set up things that she will like. It’s those little things that bring that, “Oh, you’re so sweet.” When you do that, man, I’m telling you hit her hotspot. That’s just flat out simple. You’re watering that marital plant with healthy water whenever you do that, believe me. And it’s going to pay off for both of you. Andrea: You said that it’s not necessarily something we’re going to like doing. Do we eventually come around to liking it? Dr. Leman: Some people do. If you read Sheet Music, you’ll get an earful there on things that couples engage in sexually. I mean, I’ve had so many people behind closed doors and talking about marriage over the years, but people who hated certain aspects of their sexual life who now love them, look forward to it. I mean, people change, The old ad, “Mikey likes it. He likes it.” Sometimes you have to try some things. You do some experimentation, you have fun. I talk with our teachers yesterday at one of our schools, I gave them a professional development talk and I reminded them that at Leman Academy of Excellence, fun is a natural part of what we do. It’s part of our curriculum. Learning ought to be fun. So make sure that classroom teaching is fun. Engage with the scholars and don’t do all the talking, get them involved, get them talking, ask for their opinions, especially the junior high guys, the middle-schoolers. Ask a middle-schooler their opinion, they all have opinions. So anyway, none of what we talk about on our podcast, folks, is rocket science, none of it. Andrea: Here’s my little story. I don’t really enjoy watching sports. But recently the Dodgers did really well in the World Series and I watched more baseball with Doug than I have in forever. And I would say in the past, “No, that does not sound fun.” But it was really fun to watch the final game with him the other night. And we made a poster before he came home, “Go Dodgers” with balloons. And I put on blue and white. I really wanted to get into the moment. And I would say, I actually really enjoyed it. It was super fun. We cooked hot dogs for dinner, just tried to get into the moment. So there’s some hope for you ladies, that if it’s not something you necessarily enjoy, keep on like Dr. Leman said, just do it to honor them, and then eventually it might be fun for you. Doug: Well, and to follow-up on that is the idea that gardening hasn’t been my top 10 things, but we worked at it and I found a way that I can engage with your gardening and I enjoy it now too. So we’re getting there. It just takes a little bit of time. Andrea: 22 years. Doug: 22 years. Dr. Leman: See, you got a wonderful wife there, Terp, I’m telling you. That made me smile from ear to ear. I can see her in her blue and white. It also reminded me that Mrs. Uppington, she likes to have Super Bowl parties, okay? And last Super Bowl, I mean, she’s got the decorations, she’s got table cloths that look like fields with a hundred yards on them, okay? And the people are arriving, they’re arriving and she says to me, “Who’s playing?” I mean, she doesn’t have a clue. She didn’t know who was in the Super Bowl. But she put a great party and I’m sure she got some satisfaction out of knowing that that would be fun for me as well. Andrea: That’s great. Doug: That’s great. So back to parenting, how do I get my spouse on the same page as parenting? One of my biases that you can tell me I’m wrong on, which I often am, we’re talking about this lofty goal of stopping the competition and being on the same page. Is it a introductory step to say, “Hey, let’s at least agree that this is how we’re going to parent?” And my bias is that I think this is why I love Have a New Kid by Friday, Parenting Without Losing Your Mind, and The Birth Order Book because then at least you guys can agree this is what we’re going to shoot for in our parenting. How much does that help resolve the conflict? Dr. Leman: Well, it does help, Doug, and you want to have a cerebral conversation. There’s other times where you’ve got a husband or a wife who refuses to do things, and it’s going to sound childlike to some, but sometimes you have to say, “Okay, listen, I’ll tell you what, you deal with it then, okay?” And that’s putting the tennis ball life over on the other side of the court. Now many times that will spur anger and bitterness. There might be a blow-up over that. But again, I go back to, I’d rather have a blowout and get it resolved then to have it slow leak it to death. Dr. Leman: So the other person who isn’t, quite frankly, doing their job, they’re not really being a partner so to speak. They need to be shown and feel what it’s like to handle things by yourself. It’s not easy. So again, is there an easy all answer for every couple? There isn’t. But what we talked about earlier in this podcast is downright profound because chances are you didn’t agree on a lot of stuff before you walked down the aisle and you decided in your own mind that that wasn’t a big difference because you were in love and love is going to take care of everything. Well, I got news for you. Love doesn’t always take care of everything. You have to have a like-minded spirit. You got to be pulling the rope in the right direction or there’s going to be mutiny somewhere along the line. Doug: Well, we sure appreciate this question that you guys ask us on a regular basis about how do I get my spouse on the same page. And, Dr. Leman, again, takes us to the deeper level of we’re in competition with our spouses, which Andrea, I think is just great for us to remember sometimes. And I really did love the Dodger thing by the way. That was really fun. I forgot to tell you. I apologize. And a super thing to help you is the book Intimate Connections. I mean, you can get it for a $1.99, that’s like nothing on eBook, between now and the end of November. Read it for yourself and then go, “Wow. I should buy a copy and give it to my spouse for them to read it too.” And then it would be an amazing stocking stuffer for them. Well, it was great to be with you and we love helping add to your parenting toolbox so that you can love your kids and your spouse more and more. Andrea: Have a great week. Doug: Look forward to the next time. Bye-bye. Andrea: Bye-bye.

Are your kids ignoring responsibilities and withdrawing to their rooms during quarantine? Listen in to today’s episode to learn more about how you can parent your kids through their quarantine blues.   **Special Offer– Nov 1 – 30: The Intimate Connection ebook for $1.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**     Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing Produced by Unmutable Transcript Doug: Today, we get to talk about how do you deal with children who won’t do anything and they’re in high school and college and you have no recourse and no idea what to do to get them motivated? That’s the question that Danielle asked that we get to ask Dr. Leman. Hi, I’m Doug Terpening. Andrea: And I’m Andrea. Doug: And we are so glad that you are with us. It is great to be with you again today. I would like to welcome everybody who is a first-timer here and want to let you know that this is for your education and entertainment purposes only. If the subject matter raises any concerns for you or your child, please go seek a local professional for help. Dr. Leman, it is so great to be talking to you today. I must admit. Dr. Leman: Yeah, 2020 has been interesting. Hasn’t it? It’s caused all kinds of problems across the board for Americans and people, quite frankly, all around the world. So we’re learning as we go. And I can tell you as a guy who has seven schools in two states, our schools have been open. We’re dealing with things that come up individually. We’ve had great success. Our scholars are so glad to be back in school and putting a sense of normalcy into people’s lives. But as you know, in a lot of areas there isn’t normalcy. Kids are at home, under foot. Parents are trying to juggle jobs and remote teaching and learning and doing work from home. So it’s really been a test of the grit of the American people, for sure. Doug: Well, that’s just a perfect lead in to what Danielle’s question is. So here is Danielle’s questions about how do I deal with this quarantine and all this craziness. Here she is. Danielle: Hi, Dr. Leman. I had a question. I have two older teens. One’s in college and one’s a senior in high school, presently quarantined due to the COVID virus. And we don’t know how to get them to help us around the house. They pretty much are holed up in their rooms, depressed and miserable, and it’s very difficult to get them to get outside, to get any exercise or to help around the house. Obviously we have nothing to use as leverage as they can’t go anywhere. They can’t use their car. Any suggestions on how to get a more positive attitude out of them and to get them to make the best of the situation? Thank you. Dr. Leman: I love the question. That’s a great question. So if I got this right, we’ve got the college student and the high school junior who are quarantined, which basically means they’re probably hanging out in their individual rooms most of the time, and they don’t do a lick. So let’s give these guys a name. We’ll call them the slug and the manatee. The slug and the manatee care about themselves. They live rent free in a place where they have, apparently, laundry services and food services available to them. Internet comes with the package I’m sure. And mom says, “I don’t have any leverage.” Well, Danielle, let me tell you something. I think you’ve got all kinds of leverage. I think starting tonight when you and your husband are about to eat dinner or think about dinner, that you get in the car and go out and find a place to get a bite to eat. If your town is on lockdown to the point where it’s only take out, then take it out. Find yourself, depending upon the weather and all that, find yourself a nice place outside to enjoy your dinner together. Or if you must, find a picturesque place someplace. Sit in your car and have your dinner. Let that be the first volley that is a shot across the bow of the good ship Family. It’s a warning that things are about to change for the slug and the manatee. What we’re talking about at almost an adult level is what I call the bread and water treatment. You don’t give them anything really. I mean, there’s water for the taking. There’s food in the refrigerator, I assume. I would just completely back off. I wouldn’t wash a piece of clothing of theirs. If dishes and things like that are a problem, I would make paper plates available to them. And that’s it. I’d let them know you’re very disappointed with their juvenile behavior and make sure dad chips in as well. Just make it known that you’re very, very unhappy. Okay? Don’t say you want things to change. There’s no ultimatum. There’s no anything, but there is no money given to them for anything. Okay? They are on their own. They are living in your home and there’s not going to be any communication, quite frankly, very little. Again, the effect that I want to go from you, the adults, to your two children, and you’ve chosen nice names, slug and manatee, let them get the message that things are very, very upsetting to mom and dad. You say it once. You don’t continue. You don’t nag. You don’t try to cajole. You certainly wouldn’t bribe or anything along that line. And by the way, there’s a book that’s very apropos for a situation like yours. If you’ve never read, Have a New Teenager by Friday, it’s an award-winning book. It really helps parents see that even though your kids are older, you haven’t handed over your command of the good ship Family to anybody, especially them. Andrea: Dr. Leman, I’m curious why you say there’s no ultimatum and little communication about what’s going on. Dr. Leman: Ultimatums are just going to drive them… If they’re rebellious, it’s going to drive them deeper. It’s not an ultimatum. It’s just stating a fact that you’re very unhappy. Again, keep in mind that kids want to please parents. If your kid, parent, does not want to please you, there’s something seriously wrong with your home environment, that you’ve helped create for the most part. So it’s on you. But my point is that kids don’t like it when they see action on your part. And action on your part is when your 17 year old, your junior in high school comes down the stairs and says, “Hey, I’m starving. What’s for dinner?” “Oh dad and I had dinner, honey, dinner’s over.” Again, that’s a shocky that gets, “Well what about us?” “Oh, what about you, honey? You’re fully capable of taking care of yourself.” “What is that supposed to mean?” “Well, you can tell I’m not real happy and neither is dad about how things have gone on around here.” And you can give them the, “You haven’t lifted a finger to do anything around here. From now on you’re on your own. We’re done.” You say it with that tone. It’s going to get 17 year old’s attention. So believe me, they’re taking you for granted. They’re using you as a parent and you weren’t put on this earth to be used. And hopefully the outcome of this will be that these older kids are going to come around with, “Mom, I’m sorry. Dad, I’m sorry.” And you’re going to hear those magical words. “What can we do to help?” And when they say that, have a long list. Okay? Don’t make it a short one. And let them know that all these things, that you do daily, “for the family,” apparently, they are seemingly very ungrateful for. If there’s one thing kids need to be taught it’s to be grateful. And your kids are not. Doug: Why a long list when they walk down and finally want to help out with the family? Dr. Leman: Because they have to see and hear the many things that go on in this family that apparently are unnoticed by them. These are things that they just think, mom and dad, is just part of the deal. They do everything. Well, make that a long list. And it can include washing the car or again, depending upon the season where you live, shoveling of snow or raking of leaves or yard work. Name it all, on and off. But the message is, “We’re done. We’ve had it.” And that will move the kids. It’ll move them one way or another quickly. Doug: How are they going to respond if I’ve always been coddling them, or mom’s always just done all the work around the house? And now we’re going to demand them, to do this. What does that look like? Dr. Leman: Well, you remember, I’m sure, that one of my little favorite things is, do you want to slow leak things to death or would you rather force a blowout? This blowout, so to speak, is probably going to get them talking as brothers. And they’re going to figure out that they’re going to have to alter some of their behavior. What you have to keep in mind is that mom and dad have nourished and encouraged this kind of behavior. Or we wouldn’t be talking about a slug and a manatee. We’d be talking about kids who are saying constantly, ‘Hey mom, well, what can I do today? What you need help with? Do you need me to run to the store? Whatever.” I mean, the kids are in lock down. The family’s locked down. And in cities and towns where this is happening, people are stepping on each other. They’re in their own way. They’re… All kinds of relationships are being tested. So I’m not pretending it’s just going to be easy. But I’m saying there’s got to be a blowout to create some inertia on their side to start doing some heart searching and saying, “You know what? We better step it up here. This isn’t good.” Doug: Andrea, you’re the resident mom here. Right? So now you’ve got to, for the next three nights or two nights, decide you’re not going to cook anything for your kids. You’re going to go out to dinner with your husband. You’re totally going to ignore your kids. And you’re just going to walk up and say, “I am very disappointed and walk away.” Dr. Leman: Sooner or later that kid’s going to have a conversation with you that says “What’s going on here?’ Okay? Now it’s time for talk. Now it’s time for, “I’m not only disappointed, but I needed to hear something from you guys because I’m way beyond it. I need some help. I’m not your slave. Okay? And you guys seem to only worry about your remote learning. I realize it’s not fun. I realize it’s not fun being cooped up in your room. I get it all. But you have to understand that we’re in the same predicament here. But we’re doing it all. And what I’m saying clearly is we’re done doing it all. So you’re either going to pitch in and become a part of this family and in doing so you will receive some of the benefits of being in this family. And if you choose not to, we’re going to continue on this terrible course.” So it’s straight talk. It hones right in on the problem. “You guys, aren’t doing your fair share.” And when the kids come around, which they will do, then you begin to do things that you might normally do as a mom or a dad as part of your responsibilities in the home. But there’s no reason why a 17 year old or a college student couldn’t be doing laundry for the entire family as part of their responsibility. It doesn’t have to be mom or dad. So there needs to be a redistribution, if you will, of the work that gets done. Andrea: And as mom, this would probably be hard, but I think that the outcome will be worth it. So it’ll be hard to hang on for a couple of days and watch them either get really angry. But hopefully like dr. Leman says they will start to come around and say, “What is it that we need to do?” Doug: But what about- Andrea: We created this. Doug: But what about that first conversation? How are you going to get the courage to do that? Andrea: Oh, I can do the first conversation. It’s the follow-up. Doug: It’s the follow-up? Andrea: It’s the long-term over a couple of days, still not giving in when they’re like, “What? Mom, I don’t know how to do my laundry,” or whatever it is. Doug: Ah. Andrea: Yeah. It’s not the first thing. Because that’s usually where the emotion is loaded. Doug: Ah. It’s the later on when you’re softer and they’re working you over and all that kind of stuff. Andrea: Exactly, because they are going to try and work me over. Doug: No, not our children. Well, before I forget, because I often do. I want to make sure I get in here about the ebook special that we have right now, which is a great one, which is Intimate Connection, which you can get for $1.99 between now and the end of November of 2020. And Andrea, somebody wrote in about this book. Andrea: Yeah, real world help for your marriage relationship. Dr. Leman is great, funny, insightful and on-point. Priceless information to help married people with life together. And they just had their initials, K.G.B. Doug: K.G.B., great insight on that as well. So if you want it, because I was just thinking to do this, you have to be on the same page. Don’t you, Andrea? If your husband is backing you- Andrea: If you weren’t backing me and I was trying to do this with the kids, that would be nearly impossible. Doug: Which is why we recommend the book Intimate Connection. Right? Get you and your spouse together so that you can be closer together so that you don’t, as the kids attack you, you can do that. And now for a no nonsense parenting moment with Dr. Kevin Leman. Dr. Leman: You know, I get questions all the time about building up my child’s self esteem. Hey parents, listen to me carefully. You don’t build up your child’s self esteem. Whew, glad that’s over with. They build it up. They tell themselves, “See, I can help. I can do.” And so give kids an opportunity to give back to the family. As you do that, and they complete even little minor tasks, they’re telling themselves that “I’m competent.” And one of the things you want to do with a child is make sure they feel accepted, that they belong in your family. But competence is really important. That gives them the energy to move forward and tackle new projects. Don’t sell competence short because competence matters. Doug: Alrighty. So Dr. Leman, another question that I think a lot of parents are going to have… I would… Is “Do I stop paying for things like their phone? And do I… I can’t shut the internet off because of the remote learning, but do I pay for their phone or do I make them start paying for their phone?” Dr. Leman: That’s all a part of when I say, “You don’t give them a dime for anything.” So yeah, you cut that out. But I want to point out that for you ladies, this kind of situation is a perfect situation for you to show your sons that women are to be respected and listened to. Okay? You want to do your future daughter-in-law a great service. I mean, I wouldn’t want to send either of these boys into marriage, quite frankly. They’re both going to be pretty lousy husbands. Because I think they see women, particularly in this case, their mom is their personal slave who does all these things for them. So keep in mind that, moms, you represent all of womanhood to your sons. Dads, you represent all of manhood to your daughters. Those are the key relationships. So I know this is tough. It’s tough for a mom to say, “Enough’s enough. Time out. I’m done.” But this is a beautiful opportunity to teach your kids about the loveliness and the inherent worth of a woman, namely you, mom. Doug: Amen. What about mom and dad hanging around the house? You know, if she’s saying they’re moping around the house, do mom and dad, are they just lively and gay around the house? Or are they just leaving the house and having fun without the kids? How do they, how do they act around home? Dr. Leman: Well, you can only leave the house and have fun without the kids so many times in a given week, but I would encourage that as much as possible. But in the meantime I would do what you normally do. If you’re used to watching your favorite TV shows or whatever, or maybe reading is your thing and whatever it is, continue to do it. But if there’s conversation generated by either of your sons, you’re polite. You’re not snarky. But you’re not over-friendly. There’s a neutral tone to your voice. They need to feel your uncomfortableness, your unhappiness. Doug: You know, it does make sense because Andrea and I may have had a little disagreement recently or not. And I think it is her tone of voice, at times, that can snap me out of it. Right? When she gets that little, “I am displeased in you, Douglas Terpening. That sort of helps me. I could totally see that. Not that we ever have any problems, Dr. Leman, at all. Andrea: None at all. Doug: None at all. Well, Danielle, I hope this helps you with the slug and the manatee to get them out of their room and actually helping you take out the trash and mow the lawn and do some of the dishes. And it sounds like you get to go hang out with your husband a little bit more, which may not be the worst thing in the world. And we love your questions. So please, please, please go to birthorderguyguide.com/podcastquestions. And you can leave a question right there and we’ll answer it right here on the air. And as a reminder, you can get the book Intimate Connections, the e-book for a buck 99, which is a deal, between now and the end of November of 2020, wherever e-books are sold. Well, it was great to be with you and add to your parenting toolbox that you would love those kids more and more. Andrea: Have a great day. Doug: Take care. Bye.

The holidays are just around the corner, but this year is going to look different for many. Listen in to today’s episode to learn more about how you can still have a great Holiday despite the challenges of 2020.   **Special Offer– Nov 1 – 30: The Intimate Connection ebook for $1.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**     Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing Produced by Unmutable Transcript Doug: Woo-hoo. The holidays are coming just around the corner. I can’t wait for pumpkin pie and famous bread and all the good fixings that come with it. But I must admit, I think this holiday season might be totally different than years past. So I get to ask Dr. Leman, who is the master of fun, Dr. Leman, how do we make the holidays great this year? Hi, I’m Doug Terpening. Andrea: And I’m Andrea. Doug: And we are so glad that you are with us today. If this is your first time with us, I just want to let you know this is for your education and entertainment purposes. Only if the subject matter raises any concerns for you or your child, please go seek a local professional for help. Well, Dr. Leman, I can already taste the pumpkin pie in my mouth, but I’m worried about the holidays. How do I make it great? You know how to throw a party just by walking down the street. How do we make the holidays great. Dr. Leman: Well, that’s a great question. Before we answer that, let’s look at where we’ve been. Our children have been cooped up, many of them, across the country since March. Okay. They’ve experienced an education or a non-education like they never have before. They didn’t have a summer, they didn’t go to camp. They didn’t do their lessons that they normally do. Swimming lessons, you name it lessons. Almost everything has been just shut down. And so now as we approach that time of year, that we all love that is the holidays, I think it behooves us as parents to really work overtime, trying to face the holidays with a smile on our face and get together, okay, now some people’s ears just went right back, get together with those we love. Okay. So a lot of people are thinking these holidays are going to be distant we’re not going to see each other. I question why you would go that way. What I’m saying is I think people ought to go out of their way to try to figure out, “Okay, how do we connect as family and friends in a smart way?” Okay. And I know at our schools, we take every precaution you can take. At home we do the same, and life goes on. So I think putting fun and letting kids be a part of that decision-making process. I mean, if you start a conversation at dinner with kids, “I’m thinking about Thanksgiving here coming up real soon, what would you like to do special? What would really be fun?” And let them be a part of figuring out what to do. Ditto Christmas. Okay. And the Leman family has been known at Christmas time to get in a party bus and go out and handout everything from cash to food, to hand warmers, to socks, to you name it, with the emphasis on giving to other people. And so I know ourselves, we are going to be gathering in November and December at our home, which means all of our five children are coming to Arizona and we’re going to celebrate. We’re going to celebrate the holiday season. We have much to be thankful for as we look around at many places that you scratch your head and say the world’s falling apart, but it’s only going to fall apart on your level if you let it fall apart. So we’re going to get together. We’re going to party and we’re going to have fun like we normally do. For example, one of our children or Sandy or I have a birthday, it’s very frequent that we will have a parade. And this summer Hannah turned 33 years of age on June 30th. We paraded through our neighborhood with crazy hats, kazoos, noisemakers. We’ve done it for years. We’ve done it since she was a little kid. She’s 33. She still looks forward to her parade. So have fun. You invent the fun. Okay? You do it the way you think your family should do it. Now, if you’re an old screw, just say, we’re not getting together. We’re afraid of COVID. Well, have a nice year. We’ll talk next year. Maybe we will get you to change your mind next year. But I think you are the one, fun is F-U-N that U part right in the middle, U, you’re the one that makes it fun. So figure it out and involve your kids in it. Enjoy each other. Doug: So Dr. Leman, what about for the parent who’s like, “I’d love to create some fun, but I just got to be honest. A, it’s kind of not my personality and B, I am kind of overwhelmed right now with all that’s happening.” How could you help them figure out how to add some fun into this? Dr. Leman: Well, I guess the first thing is to admit that you’re not much of a fun person. And does that really, does that line up with your faith? Does it line up with your calling? Does it line up with any commitment to your family or your community, or to your church? I mean, people are going to hide out. You can go through life scared. You can go through life as a wallflower. I remember working with a lady once, I’ll never forget her because she dressed in camouflage almost like she wanted to blend in with the earth, and I invited her to a party. And she said, I asked her if she’d like to go to a party. She said, “What kind of a party?” I said, “It’s called life. Lady, you got to get off the wall.” And actually that was a case that worked out very well. Lady made some substantial changes in her life and she did a 180, but there’s always going to be the Debbie downers who quite frankly get some psychological jollies out of being Debbie downers. Andrea: I’m thinking of a parent who maybe has teenagers and the culture in their home has been kind of independent. And the teens are up in their room doing their online school. And mom and dad are at their desks doing their online work and to suddenly turn the tide of like, “All right, we’re all going to get together and we’re going to have fun.” And I can see blank stares right now of the teenagers. Like “What’s just happened to mom or dad?” How do you turn the tide and create a new culture? Dr. Leman: How many in this family, I’m talking to the family you just described, are sick of doing what we’re doing. Let me see hands. Okay. So there’s, mom’s hand handed, dad’s hand and the two kids that are up doing their remote education. They’re bored silly, too. Now here’s the question, will the four of us, I mean, do we really want to continue doing this or do we want to add some fun to our life? Now if the four of you can’t figure out what would be different, in certain parts of the country there’s still some fall left. There’s still some color in the trees. When we were little, we would take kids on a ride. Okay. I’ll never forget one of my adult daughters calling us up and saying to their mother, “Mom, I’m becoming you. I just said to my husband, ‘Do you want to go for a ride?'” But even going for a ride and going to a town that’s 50 miles away and getting an ice cream that is famous in that county is better than sitting home looking at each other. Okay. It does put you in the car. There is a time for talking to each other. I mean, we were built to be relational people. We weren’t built to be by ourselves. So again, there are some who are just stymied by all this they’re paralyzed. They’re like the rabbit in the middle of the road that has the headlights on them. And that poor little bunny doesn’t know to turn left or turn right. And I’m not sure that myself or anybody else is going to get them off that little rut in life. But if the four of you can figure something out, then that’s pretty sad. Doug: Well, and to be an encouragement, the Terpenings, we really try to have fun. We really do. And if I were to tell you some of our … doesn’t matter. But I will tell you from experience, if you try and get four people to agree, to go do something who historically don’t go do stuff, it is painful. So just because you get silence from your kids does not mean that they don’t want to go do stuff. And they might even, right, Dr. Leman, they might even give you lip like, “You’re kidding me. We’re driving 50 miles to go get Salt and Straw ice cream.” Once they get through it, you’d be surprised what they say. Andrea: I remember one of the car trips we took early in the quarantine, Doug said we were going to go to In-N-Out. And it’s like an hour and a half drive. And so he told everyone in advance to pick a song they liked to play in the car. And then we get to talk about why everybody liked their song, but it gave us something to talk about and fun to do as we were driving. Dr. Leman: There you are. The creative Terpenings strike again. Our culture, our children are used to being entertained. Okay. You see the vans with a video in the back and you got the three-year-old and a four-year-old in the car seat and they’re watching the video. I get it. Mom and Dad want peace and quiet. I get it. But we’ve trained kids that they will always be entertained. What’s healthy is for kids to figure out that they can entertain themselves. I know we’re going to have a pumpkin carving contest. We’ll carve pumpkins and some will be, and I’ve got some really artistic people in our family. It’ll be fun to see. My wife is in love with pumpkins. Okay. So we’ll have pumpkins all over here that look really weird and it’ll be fun to have them. Well she’s always, Sandy’s very creative and she always has the grandchildren over. This summer, we tie dyed shirts together. We always do things. I have a hard time understanding why people can’t come up with things that are fun to do. It’s pandemic time in New York where I live in the summertime and the governor there is outrageous. He’s just issued an edict that he’s authorized police officers to fine people $1,000 for not having their mask on in public, outside within six feet of another person, you get $1,000 fine. Well, I’ll tell you what I did. I took two high school buddies of mine and we went out and we got a fishing guide and we went out on Lake Erie and we caught walleyed pike. And we had a great time and you have to make your own fun. There are times you need to get away. Every mom needs to get away from her children. Every dad needs time for himself. Kids need time for themselves, but we need play time together. So you’re the curator, folks. You’re the one … God gave kids parents for a reason. Doug: I think a big question that a lot of parents are asking these days are, “Do my kids actually want to be with me?” Especially as they get older. What would you say to that parent? Because I’m like, if I tell my kids were jumping in the car and go into Salt and Straw an hour away, they would hate me. Which I think a lot of parents are concerned about. Dr. Leman: There’s sometimes as a parent, you make a decision that involves your kids, that your kids have no interest in whatsoever. But I think you’ve already alluded to this, Doug. Sometimes once they go and do it, it’s fun. I tell a story of one of my books about going to a graveyard, taking the kids to a graveyard. And there were only three kids at the time and they were in the back. And now that I recall, I was waxing and waning about this cemetery we were going to go to, because all of my Leman forefathers are buried there. And to show you how long ago it was, they were on their Walkmans. And so I’m waning and waxing about Leman history and who these people are, I look in the mirror, in the rearview mirror, and the three of them got headphones on and their heads are bopping around. They’re not even listening to what I’m saying. So we get to the cemetery and it’s like, “Oh, now what are we doing?” And they get out and they look tired. They look like they’ve been dragged through. “All right, what are we doing here? All these tombstones.” And I said, “Well, this is where the Leman’s were buried.” And my daughter Kristy, “Well wait, what does that mean? You mean, there’s one of these markers like this, that’s got our name on it?” “Yeah.” All right, cool. I said our job’s to find it. And the three of them took off running and it wasn’t too many minutes later when I heard that same daughter say I found them. I found them. And it was fun for these kids, I think, to go and look at those tombstones with all these different first names with that similar, last name Leman carved in granite. So again, I think you sort of take the bull by the horns. You make it happen. Can you make somebody be happy? You can’t. But you can be happy. You can be upbeat. You can ignore some of the cheap shots or the ankle biting that might be going on in the back of the van. Doug: When we come back, I want to ask you a question about holidays, about buying stuff for them and your attitude. But I don’t want to forget to mention this month. It’s a brand new month of November and we have a new book out it’s called Intimate Connections for a buck 99, between now and the end of November of 2020. So Intimate Connections. And Andrea, Jacqueline wrote in and said this about the book. Andrea: Yeah, Jacqueline says, “A must read for men and women in any relationship. I wish I had read this book 40 years ago.” Doug: Well, Dr. Leman, how is Intimate Connections going to help us? Dr. Leman: If you don’t have the intimate connection and most of you don’t, let’s be real frank here, you’re going to go through dinners where you hardly say a word to each other. You talk about the things of the day. There’s never a real gut-level feeling or emotion expressed. There’s not that intimate connection. There’s not that I know every word you’re going to say. I can tell when you’re going to tear up, you just don’t have it. You never had it. Okay. And there’s others who know what I’m about to say, you have the intimate connection. The two have become one. It’s a wonderful experience to be so close that we could separate you for three months and, and then bring you back together and you’d pick up exactly where you left off. It’s a book that tries to get through the superficial, how are you today? I’m fine, to a much deeper level of communication. Doug: Well, you know where to go anywhere. I forgot to mention these are eBooks and wherever your eBooks are sold, however you get them Amazon or Barnes and Noble or wherever, $1.99 between now and the end of November of 2020. Dr. Leman, two more questions I have for you is when you’re in the car, driving to Salt and straw, since that’s the one we are highlighting here and the kids are all grumbling, how do you make sure that your attitude stays joyful in the midst of that? How do you not let them drag you down into the humdrum? Dr. Leman: Well, this is a little embarrassing, but when the kids were little and they’d get their dog and pony show mode where, “He touched me” and “No, he said this,” and they’re just trying to drag you into it, I would turn the radio on loud and put all of it in the rear speakers. And they will howl like baby pigs who were stepped on. They will squeal. They hate that. Number one, they hate my music. Okay. Number two, it’s really loud. And you only have to do that once in a while. It’s temporary. I’ve got a friend who, when he had small kids, he had driven across the country with the kids. He says, next year, I’m putting the kids in the van. We’re just going to drive around Tucson all day long. We’re going to go to a Motel 6. Then I’m going to get up and do the same thing the next day. I could save myself a lot of stress by just driving around Tucson rather than going across the country. I still laugh about that to this day. But hope you got that. Doug: Yeah. Here’s the second question. So most of us are taught if I buy my kids more stuff at holidays, then it will be a great holiday for them. I’m going to get them to the new blah, blah, blah, or more of blah, blah, blah. Where’s the line between too much and too little on that kind of thing? Dr. Leman: It should be skewed toward too little. I’ve mentioned this before, but I think it’s great as we get close here to Thanksgiving and I would have a conversation with the kids at a breakfast, maybe on a Saturday morning, it says, “Hey, listen, tomorrow morning or tomorrow evening,” whatever, you pick your time. “I want you to all bring your Christmas ideas.” Okay? “Bring ideas, Mom and Dad are going to bring paper and pencil and we’re going to discuss the upcoming holidays.” And that will put the kids in third gear. And then some. What do kids love thinking about? Christmas presents and their Christmas list. And they all come expectant, and Mom and Dad got the paper and you start with the oldest. “Okay, let’s start with you, Nathan. Tell me what would you like to give to others this Christmas?” And it just sort of shocks them all. They go, “Wait a minute, hold on. I’ve had nine hours of anticipation of this meal. I thought we were talking about our lists.” “Yeah, we are talking about your list, your list. What are you going to give to Grandpa? What are you going to give to Grandma? What are you going to give to your aunt? What are you going to give to your cousin?” Whatever. “What are we going to do as a family for other families?” So if you go into it with that idea, the kids will probably temper their own hedonistic needs when it comes to, I want, I want and keep in mind, there’s always a difference between what kids want and what they need, but it’s overkill in too many families who give kids way too many things. Doug: Ken, I’ve heard you say repeatedly that it’s about experiences and time with family. And Andrea is the queen of this. She demands that in the holidays that we get out of puzzle or two and find a good book to read and I always grumble about it and then halfway through it, I think, wow, this is really fun just to sit here in the living room as a family and do these puzzles and things. You’re right. Andrea: Well, and that’s one of our traditions every year is to get a family puzzle as one of our family gifts. So we have a new puzzle to do. A good one. Not a really cheap one, but you know, a good quality puzzle that snaps together. Doug: Well. I hope this helps you get ready for the holidays. And we’re all excited to hear about how many of you go out and get ice cream an hour away, which is a brilliant idea. And it really does give you a chance to talk. Two quick reminders, Intimate Connections between now and the end of November of 2020, wherever eBooks are sold for $1.99 and you can get Dr. Leman Have A New Kid, DVD series, six part series at drleman L-E-M-A-N .com A great, great, great gift to those that are struggling or those that are new parents that want to learn about how do I do this? It’s a great, great foundational piece. Well, we thank you for being with us and we look forward to the next time we get to hang out with you and add to that parenting toolbox so you can love those kids more and more. Andrea: Have a great one. Doug: Take care. Bye-bye. Andrea: Bye-bye.

It’s time for another Ask Dr. Leman: “My 9-year-old has explosions and my 2-year-old is mimicking. Now what?” Listen in to find out Dr. Leman’s response on today’s episode of Have a New Kid by Friday Podcast.   **Special Offer– Oct 1 – 31: The Birth Order Book ebook for $1.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**     Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing Produced by Unmutable Transcript

How do you help your youngest become successful like their siblings? Listen in to learn more about how to motivate your last-born on this episode of Have a New Kid by Friday Podcast.   **Special Offer– Oct 1 – 31: The Birth Order Book ebook for $1.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**     Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing Produced by Unmutable Transcript Doug: The baby of the family, the spoiled one, the one that gets away with murder. How do you raise that last one, when you’re like, “It’s the last one. Let’s just love on it. Let’s not push too much”? How do you change your last born, train them up to become a go-getter? That’s the question we get to ask Dr. Leman. How do we raise our last born well? Hi, I’m Doug Terpening. Andrea: And I’m Andrea. Doug: And we are so glad that you are with us today. And if this happens to be your first time, welcome a bazillion. And we want to let you know this is for your education and entertainment purposes only. If the subject matter raises any concerns for you or your child, please go seek a local professional for help. Well, Dr. Leman, our question for today is training up your last born. And just for the record, where are you in the birth order? Dr. Leman: Well, I’m a baby. I always said my litmus test when I do television, or radio for that matter, is to get the host to laugh at what I say, or specifically on TV to hear the audio guy or the lighting guy in the background or the cameraman, or woman, laughing as well. So babies of the family grow up. They have natural competitors, natural prey, if you will, above them in the family. If you’re the baby of the family, chances are you have several parents, more than two, because those siblings become pseudo parents, in many ways. They’re in charge of you. They get in trouble for what you did. Many of them are born leaders. And so where does that leave you as a baby? And I guess that’s the question of the day, Doug, that you posed to us is how do you get this baby to suck it up, become a leader, become involved, be successful? And I think quite frankly, if I had to answer that question succinctly, I would say, “Well, in many ways it sort of takes care of itself.” And the reason I say that is that a lot of times babies of the families get discounted. In other words, you’ll hear siblings say, “Oh, don’t pay attention to her. Don’t pay attention to him.” And they are the ones that probably are the late bloomers as they grow up. They figure out, “Wait a minute. I know a few things.” A lot of us will develop the attitude. “Okay. Game on. I’ll show you.” So they tend to be late bloomers. So like I say, I think a lot of it naturally takes place as the youngest grows older. Andrea: So you’re saying that it might be more our perspective than their own perspective? Dr. Leman: Right. Andrea: That we think that they’re not a go-getter. Doug: Then why do we think that babies are the goof-offs, the undisciplined ones of the world? Why is that the stereotype that we have for the youngest? Dr. Leman: Well, this is going to sound contradictory of what I just said, but they are out there a little bit. They are the most likely to be the comedian of the family, for example. And, again, keep in mind, everybody’s listening now. We’re not talking that all babies are the same here. Okay? There are a lot of variables that create that youngest child, and it’d be a functional firstborn and all those kinds of things. We won’t get into that right now. But just keep in mind that we’re not trying to paint the brush so wide that it encompasses all babies of the family. But they don’t always give themselves credit. It’s easy for the baby to lay back and let the others take over. And that becomes the easy way out for them. But like I say, over a period of time, a lot of babies figure out, “Wait a minute, I’m more capable than I thought I was.” And again, some of them develop that attitude, “I’ll show you.” So babies of the family can become very, very successful in life. Ronald Reagan, baby of the family, former CEO and chairman of the board at Southwest, one of my all-time favorite people I’ve ever met in life, Herb Kelleher, baby of the family, youngest of four brothers. But if you look at Herb Kelleher as an example and Southwest Airlines, I love to make the point that that’s a fun airplane to fly. He made it fun. How the principles that he guided Southwest Airlines were, were very controversial and different. So babies tend to put a little bit different spin on things. So the goofiness, the humor, the play it by ear mentality is stereotypically true for most babies, but it can also be turned into great creativity and getting out of the box. And you can lead from the bottom of the family as well as you can from the top. Doug: So this is to help parents that are dealing with the last borns. One of the dangers that we’ve talked about and Andrea and I have seen, at least I’ve seen, is that sometimes we’ve used the tree analogy that the tree is so full, and there’s no room for the last borns. And they kind of just drift off out of the family because the older two have dominated all the oxygen in the room or whatever you want to say. How do we make sure that that doesn’t happen to our youngest? Dr. Leman: Well, all I have to do is look in the mirror to answer that question, Doug, because if you remember, I had two very successful siblings above me. I’m the baby of the family. I graduated fourth in the bottom of my class in high school. I couldn’t get in college. When I got in college, I got admitted on probation, but I’m a typical baby of the family that grew up, that matured, that figured out, “Wait a minute, I can do a few things in life.” And you’ve heard me say that it was an old math teacher who encouraged me. She was the one that said, “Kevin, I’ve seen you take over classes. I’ve heard teachers talk about you in the teacher’s lounge for years. Have you ever thought you could use those skills you have for something positive?” Well, that was my journey. And I think it’s a journey of a lot of youngest children. Now, back to parents, lucky for me, I never felt like my parents didn’t love me. So they did a great job of loving me anyway. My mother would laugh at my antics. She told a story about when I was three years old, she had me on a dog run from a maple tree to an elm tree in our backyard. And I remember I was probably about 40 years old and I was kidding her. I said, “Mom, what’d you think, I was part Weimaraner?” And I would get her laughing so much. And she said, “Well, if I didn’t have you on that line, you’d run away.” So I think the parent that loves their kid anyway, is the parent who will see that their kids who they see or they view as maybe not as successful as they should be, with time and patience on your part and encouragement on your part, those kids can learn to fly. Doug: Well, is that the key to raising the youngest is patience? Because how often do we compare, regretfully, our children, right? That the youngest does feel like a goof-off? Dr. Leman: Well, I think what happens is we get wore down as parents. Think of the effort you put it under the firstborn and the worry and the concern. And ask yourself as a parent, were you more worried about little James or your youngest child? And see, it’s very natural for parents just to lighten up as you go through the birth order, and you learn that things like dirt will not kill. And you roll with the punches a lot better as a parent, by the time your youngest is born. You’re not as worrisome. And that helps create the personality where the child is a lot more loose and not so uptight as maybe a firstborn sibling is. So, again, I go back to in many ways, this sort of naturally works out for a youngest child. Babies do well in life. Babies have high personal skills. Think of your high school classes, everybody, the high school you grew up in. I want you to think of the stars in your graduating class. If you can’t remember, get the old yearbook out and take a look. And have you ever done a little research to see what happened to those people? I know this is a sample of one high school, but I look at some of our leaders, and a lot of them didn’t do much in life. It was kids from the middle of the pack. And maybe even some like me that were at the bottom of the hill that actually did a little better than some of the others. Doug: How does that relate to the last born? Are you just saying that don’t discount where they are today or? Dr. Leman: Well, I’m saying what does it take to do well in high school? Okay, let just use high school as an example. What does it take to be successful in high school? Literally, in general, you got to be really good at following the rules. If you follow the rules, you’re going to what? You’re going to do your homework, you’re going to pay attention, you’re going to become involved, you’re going to do all these wonderful things. And so how much creativity is there in that? I don’t think there’s that much creativity in that, following the rules. I mean, I’m old as dirt, and I still say I never been real big on rules. And I haven’t been. In my relationship with my Maker, I’ve had that discussion with God, lots of times, that, “I should be more conscious, Lord, of Your rules because Your rules are good for us.” I’m not a real rule-oriented person. But what I’m saying is that high school and early years is not always a great predictor of the kind of person that you’re going to be at age 35 or 40, the kind of parent you’re going to be. So I think those of us who grew up feeling loved and accepted for who we are… Now, you’re asking how do we help a baby? Listen to those words, for those of us who grew up feeling accepted for who we are, by our family, by those primary people, our mom, our dad, those significant people in our life, those are the ones who will do life well. Andrea: So I hear you saying that maybe those babies, it’s going to be a while before you see them balloon, so to speak. But like Doug said earlier, be patient. And it might not be until after college or whatever, that they start to settle into whatever their strength is and really start to bloom. Dr. Leman: That’s right, Andrea. I’m sure there’s parents right now, listening to us, saying, “Leman, would you just tell me what to do with my baby of the family? He doesn’t pick up after himself. His room looks like a tornado hit it. He does get away with murder.” And I go, “Wait a minute, time out. He gets away with murder? Are you an authoritarian parent, or you’re a parent in authority? If you’re a parent in authority, hey, this is on you he gets away with murder. You need to hold him more accountable.” And so there’s teachable moments in the life of the baby of the family, where sooner or later, everybody sort of figures out what that baby’s gig is all about and they don’t get sucked into that web. They don’t get sucked into that trap. And they figure out the baby, and pretty soon the baby figures out, “These antics, I’m fooling myself here. Life’s going by. I better get together.” And so babies do change. Youngest children have, again, high personal skills. They do well in sales. So some of these kids that you older siblings are going to write off, be careful because they might go flying by you before too long. Because they have to know how to get around people, growing up as a baby in the family. It’s like a maze. And that youngest child figures out how to get through that maze, how to get around other people. So do they become manipulative? Yes, they do. Are they social butterflies? They certainly are. And they learn to navigate the many waters of life pretty good. So every birth order has its pluses. Okay? One isn’t inherently better than the other. But the entrepreneurs, where do you suppose entrepreneurs come from in the family? They’re not the firstborn children. They’re more likely to be the CEO of a big organization, the president of this or that, but your entrepreneur, there’s your middle child. There’s your baby of the family who does things way out of the box. Doug: When we come back, I want to ask you about how do we help make sure that our oldest don’t resent our youngest? But I want to talk about the latest offer from our friends at Revell Baker Book. It is The Birth Order Book for $2.99. You can get it between now and the end of October of 2020, wherever your eBooks are sold, for a mere $2.99. And Dr. Leman, when did you write The Birth Order Book? Dr. Leman: It was written in 1984. It was published in 1985. It followed the million seller, Making Children Mind Without Losing Yours. But the nice thing about… In fact, if someone has a copy of the original Birth Order Book in prime condition, you have no idea how much that baby’s worth. That’s a tough book to find, in a hardback. And it had three little eggs on the bottom of it. It was a white cover with black lettering, and the three little eggs. And who should pop out of the third egg but a caricature of me? Yes, it’s really funny. But that book was revised three different times, twice, significantly major. And the last time was a whole overhaul of the book where 70% of… And those of you who can download this book for $2.99, listen to what I’m about to say. You read the book years ago, okay? That book has 70% new material in it, the book that’s out there now. So it’s been in so many different languages. It’s a book that’s loved by everybody. How you can not like The Birth Order Book is beyond me because it’s engaging. It’s fun to read. It gives you a handle on how to view people in your family, how to look at yourself, your marriage, how you rear your kids. It’s like an all purpose flour. It can be used in so many situations. So don’t be afraid to download that puppy and suggest it to your friends and your kids. Kids love that book. Kids who do reports on it for school, I guarantee you they get an A, because the teachers find the topic fascinating, that these little bears, these little cubs can come out of the same den and yet be so uniquely different. Doug: It’s a great book. I highly encourage you. It is always fascinating to find out when coworkers of mine, what order they are in The Birth Order Book, and go, “Oh, that makes a lot more sense.” So you can get it now, wherever you get your eBooks for $2.99 between now and the end of October of 2020. And now, a no-nonsense parenting moment with Dr. Kevin Leman. Dr. Leman: Talk to anybody who’s successful, okay? I’ll let you define what’s successful. And ask them about the failure in their life. Truly successful people have had lots of failures in their life, but you know what? They’ve used those stumble blocks, those stones, as jumping off points, they’ve learned from their mistakes. That’s why it’s important for you as a parent to give your kids opportunity to fail. Failure isn’t fatal as someone once said. So don’t get your knickers in an uproar, okay? Don’t get those panties too tight. And sometimes you parents do exactly that. Okay? Let them learn. Remember, failure isn’t fatal. It can be good for you. Doug: So Dr. Leman, we were sitting around the dinner table yesterday, and the youngest said something like, “Well, I didn’t have to X, Y, and Z.” And the three just blew up, like, “I can’t believe it. You always have gotten away with murder, geez Louise.” Right? And that’s not the first time we’ve heard that. How do we make sure that our older children don’t resent that younger child? Dr. Leman: Well, I’m going to say this as clear as I can. Good luck. Yeah. Good luck with that because you are going to resent that baby because the baby… Again, the rules. The rules lessen as you have more children, they don’t increase. They lessen. You’re easier on the youngest child. “Mom, you never let me do that when I was eight years old,” that kind of thing. I’m just telling you, it’s a natural progression. I tell a story, it’s sort of a funny story about kids being the enemy. And I say kids go to bed with a plan. And they’re in bed, and an 11-year-old and 10-year-old sleep together in the same room. And they have a conversation that goes like this, “Hey, are you hungry?” “Yeah.” “Hey, you go out and tell Mom you want a treat. I ain’t going out there.” “No, you go there. You’re the oldest.” “No, no, no. Mom likes you more. You go out there. Tell her you just want a little snack.” “No, I’m not going out there.” And so they start to argue with each other. And the oldest says, “Wait a minute. What about Herbie?” Well, who’s Herbie? Herbie’s the four-year-old who’s sound asleep in the next room. So what do the two mobsters do at age 11 and 10? They go in and wake up little Herbie. “Herbie, Herbie.” “Wow. What are you waking me up for? I’m tired.” “Herbie, come here, go out and tell mom and dad you’re…” “I’m not hungry. I’m tired.” “No, you go out there and tell mom and dad right now you’re hungry. You want a snack.” And so there’s a little obedient Herbie, he’s being muscled by his older brothers, with his blankie in tow, and he comes out. And mom hears the little footsteps and turns and looks at her husband with astonishment, and then says, “What are you doing out of bed, Herbie?” “I want a snack.” “Oh, Herbie. All right, one quick snack. And then it’s right into bed.” I love to point out, and what do you see down the hallway? Two shadows creeping toward you. And what do they say when you say, “What are you two doing out of bed?” “Herbie’s out of bed.” And see, what I’m saying is oldest children sometimes use babies as fodder. And I like to say, if I’m teaching a seminar, why do they send baby Herbie out? Because if he gets killed, who cares? We don’t like the kid anyway. Doug: Andrea, does he sound like a resentful youngest to you, or is it just me? Andrea: Not at all. Not at all. Doug: Not at all. Oh, okay. Dr. Leman, have you been able to resolve your childhood issues? It sounds like maybe on this podcast you’re reliving. Dr. Leman: Well, no, it’s fun because I’ve told this, I think, a zillion times, but I talk with my sister, and she lives in New York, I live in Arizona, at least two times a week. And my brother and his wife, at least two times a week. During the coronavirus, we were probably speaking three to four times a week just because we all had more time. So I came from a very close family. And so to answer your questions, they still like to recount the antics that their younger brother did. They laugh with me, not so much at me anymore, but I respect them. And Sally, the oldest in the family, is as classy a lady as there is. My brother, Jack, was a devoted clinical psychologist for years and dealt with kids that were really tough to deal with. And so we’ve all been successful in life. But, again, we came from nothing. We had very few pennies in our family, but we did have a mom who was the rock of the family who was a great person of faith. And we had a dad who had lots of limitations, but we all knew that he loved us, despite it all. So, parents, those are the ingredients, the love, the acceptance, the affirmation, the communication that goes on. That pays off. I always tell parents when the parents are wondering what’s going to happen to this 12-year-old and 13-year-old who are at each other’s throat, it seems like, every moment of the day, and I say, “Well, I got news for you. They’ll be in each other’s weddings. And things will be better.” So that basic love, love permeates about everything there is to permeate in life. And if there’s love in a family, that’s going to carry you through. Andrea: Well, it’s been really fun to hear this perspective on the last born, on the baby of the family, and just how much their creativity come to full bloom and they can really go places with it when they get older. And, I don’t know, it’s just opened my perspective. So I really appreciate that. To close, I was wondering what are two tips you would give to parents raising their last born? You may have already said them, but two tips to take home. Dr. Leman: Well, that’s a good one, Andrea. And I think number one, for sure, would be to make sure that your youngest child has as much responsibility as they need to have in your family. That’s number one, is to keep them responsible. And maybe this is just one A to that is just be careful. You’re talking to a little person who can be very manipulative. They can play you like a violin. And just be aware of the fact that they have high social skills that might really test your mettle. And it gets back to loving them in a way that really is a guiding influence in their life. A baby sees things differently. I never forget in fourth grade, I won’t repeat what I did, but what I did was not the coolest thing I ever did in my life, but they put me outside of the room. And what did I do? Did I stand there? I mean, what do you guys think I did? This is a quiz. Doug: I think you went and found something to play with. Or you started acting out so they could watch you as you acted out in the back. Some sort of, something goofy. Dr. Leman: Okay. Andrea, what do you think? Andrea: You’re outside the back door? Dr. Leman: Yeah. I went home. I lived about a mile from school, fourth grade. So how old was I? 10 years old. I walked home. My mother was a working nurse. Now, when I grew up, all the kids, their mothers were at home in house dresses. Not mine. My mom was in her nurse’s uniform. She was a superintendent of a convalescent home for children. So they put me outside the door. I went home, I got my fishing pole. I walked about a quarter mile to the creek, and I went fishing. Was I worried? No, I went fishing. That’s the baby of the family, a little aberrant, a little off the wall. That little firstborn you put outside there’d be standing like a wooden soldier 20 minutes later. I could see Andrea out there. She’d be at attention. She’d be tearing up, thinking, “Oh, I’m in trouble. What am I going to do? Oh my goodness.” Me, I’m fishing. I still laugh about that stuff today. Doug: Well, thank you for that. As a fellow youngest in the family, I did hear some definitely bias towards youngest from Dr. Leman. I do not think he’s unbiased, Andrea. Andrea: I don’t think so. Doug: Yeah. So, everybody, just be aware of that. And if you want a clear perspective, go read the book, Birth Order Book for $2.99 between now and the end of October. And we hope that you can just love that youngest kid more and more and more. And learn how to accept them as they are, as Dr. Leman said, but give them enough responsibility. So it was fun to be with you today. And we look forward to the next time. Andrea: Have a great week. Doug: Take care. Bye-bye.

It’s time for another Ask Dr. Leman: “How do I stop myself from reacting?” Listen in to find out Dr. Leman’s response on today’s episode of Have a New Kid by Friday Podcast.   **Special Offer– Oct 1 – 31: The Birth Order Book ebook for $1.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**     Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing Produced by Unmutable Transcript

Do you feel like your middle child is pulling away? ! Listen in to learn more about how to make your middle child feel special on this episode of Have a New Kid by Friday Podcast.   **Special Offer– Oct 1 – 31: The Birth Order Book ebook for $1.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**     Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing Produced by Unmutable Transcript Doug: Oh, the middle child, the forgotten one. Andrea is a middle child. I’m a middle child and we can confess. Andrea: Oh, we feel forgotten. Doug: We are forgotten so often. Andrea: So I have to add in this next few weeks, we’re going to go over some of the birth order and we started with the middle child on purpose. Doug: Yes. Woo hoo. For the first time people are going to actually hear from us. So we’re going to get tips on what does it take to raise a middle child? Doug: Hi, I’m Doug Terpening. Andrea: I’m Andrea. Doug: We’re both middle children and we are really glad that you are with us today. If you’re an older or younger, but if you’re a fellow middle. Woo hoo. Andrea: Go middle children. Doug: Go middle’s unite. [inaudible 00:00:47] welcome and if this is your first time, I’ll let you know this for your education and entertainment purposes only. If the subject matter raises any concerns for you or a child, please go seek a local professional for help. Well, Dr. Leman, the question that Andrea has brought to us today is what about us poor middle children. What’s the tips on raising them? I thought she had a great [inaudible 00:01:12] your middle child needs to feel special or they’ll slip away. Help us. How do we raise our middle kids? Dr. Leman: Yeah they blend in. They can become beige. There’s part of the personality of the middle child. Many of them will let that happen without much of a fight. They just assume that the book ends, the first born and the youngest have it made and they sort of resolve themselves to an inferior position in the birth order. So their own personality does not lead to a lot of positives in a natural way. You got to sort of bring those positives out of the middle child. I remember one mommy saying, “Of all my kids, I could never figure out when things went awry with my middle child because I would find her whimpering in her room by herself. She wasn’t the one that came and said, “I feel sad or upset or I’m mad,” or whatever.” Dr. Leman: So again, a lot of middle children just sort of blend into the wall. So this is a good topic. I’m so proud of you guys as middle children saying, “Okay, if we’re going to talk a little birth order, let’s start with those neglected middle children.” They are the squeezed ones. I think everybody can see that. Again, your reality people is what you see from behind your eyes is a kid grows up behind the firstborn. There he is in the second position. Dr. Leman: He has three parents to start with or she has three parents to start. We’ve got mom, dad and older sibling. Depending upon the year gap between the first born and the second born, the more that statement is true. Because for example, if that child is four years younger than the first born, that’s a huge, huge difference. So the more gap there, the more influence that older sibling has over you. Dr. Leman: Now think for a moment, what are the personality characteristics that would describe your first born, your older sister, your older brother? Everybody think of that. Now those are probably areas that you as a middle child did not pursue. You went just in a completely different direction for survival, yes, but it makes sense. Doesn’t it? That role is already filled. So middle children, let me just say this, are the toughest to pin down. Dr. Leman: We say, “Okay, all middle children are like this.” Now we say all, we’re saying that with tongue and cheek because all middle children are not the same obviously, but when you look at them in masses, there are certain personality characteristics that seem to be pronounced within the middle child. So that’s number one reason why they’re so hard to pin down because they play off of what’s ever above them in the family. Dr. Leman: Let me give you a middle child who has an older sister who is rather introspective and she’s the quiet one. She’s not a leader, doesn’t seem to be a leader. She’s a quiet, follow the rules person. Books are some of her best friends. She doesn’t have a lot of social life. There you come along two years later. Middle child says to himself, “She’s a little on the boring side. Talk about beige layman. She’s beige and spades.” Dr. Leman: You know what? I think that’s an opportunity. That child, that second child, a middle child might leap over that firstborn. Now notice I said two years difference. If there’s a two year or less difference between the first and the second, there is a probability of that second child leaping over so to speak, taking over a leadership position in the family where they become more of a functional firstborn than they are a middle child. So let me just stop there and let you middle children interact because I could talk on this subject forever, but I’d much rather hear from you guys and how that makes sense maybe in your own lives, as you look at Doug and Andrea. Doug: Well, Andrea I think is a more pure firstborn because I have an older sister, three and a half years and then I’m the first boy and I was the first grandson boy. So I was the honored boy. Dr. Leman: Oh. You were a little kitten. Doug: I was little kitten. Yeah. So you can react to this more than I can. Andrea: Oh yeah. So yeah, my sister is two and a half years older than me. So I was trying to listen in like how does that fit with us? How did I respond to Emily’s, do things differently. I specifically, I remember when it got to sixth grade and we got to pick an instrument. She had picked flute and I really would’ve liked to play flute, but I thought, no, I have to be different. Andrea: So I picked the clarinet and I remember a particular sweater she got one year school shopping and she got the sweater and I loved it and it was in style, but I couldn’t get the exact same one. So I went and I got a blue one, but I never liked mine as much as I liked her green one, but I couldn’t have the same sweater. Dr. Leman: But listen, Andrea, how you lock in those choices. You’re very definite about that. I couldn’t do this. I can’t do that. That’s what happens to the middle child because they see those choices that that older sibling makes. I mean, they’re in granite. They’re in cement. They’re anchored and you just don’t dare go there. That’s why I can say almost assuredly that when you look at a family, the one thing we can really bet our house on is the fact that the first two kids in a family, especially if they’re same sex are going to be night and day different. Doug: So Dr. Leman help us as parents. We’re raising our middle children. What do we need to be aware of? How do we inadvertently parent them poorly or not ideally? Dr. Leman: What you have to understand is in the birth order itself, you have two little piglets who sort of dominate everything. That would be piglet number one and piglet number three. Let’s just say, make it easy. We’ve got a family of three. So the smart parent, the very best thing they can do to a middle child because what we do as parents is we call on the first born or we’re drawn to the baby of the family because they have an unreasonable need for attention many times and we skip over that middle child without even realizing it. Dr. Leman: So memorize this parents. Honey, I’d love to know what your opinion is about this. What do you think about this? Where would you like to go? What color do you like best? How should we spend our vacation this year? Tapping into those kids’ minds and letting them know that you care about their feelings is primary number one lesson for every parent of a middle child because they will slip away. They won’t always tell you how they feel. They’ll lock themselves into answers for their life just like Andrea just shared with us a few moments ago. Dr. Leman: So you got to get them out of that rut and let them know that you value them for who they are. So again, you want to treat your kids differently. So in treating your firstborn or your second born differently, I got news for you. Who wins on that? The firstborn wins. They get the bigger allowance. They get more privilege. They get to stay up later. So there’s some built in things within the family hierarchy that play against the middle child as well. So they get beaten up pretty good. They really do. Dr. Leman: The nice thing about middle children is when they get it from on top and they get it from underneath themselves, they become resilient. They become pretty adaptable people, flexible people. They roll with the punches. So with all this negativity we’re talking about for the middle child, those tough bumps in life I think helps strengthen the middle child to make them more courageous and able to persevere and develop an internal message that says, “I can do this.” So there’s some good news with the bad. Doug: What do we do towards middle children that is negative? Do we say things like, “Why can’t you be more like your older brother?” Or do we view them as lazy and not caring and not attention to detail? Dr. Leman: Well, anytime you compare children to each other, you’re doing somebody, both kids who does service quite frankly, but middle children can internalize that and then they start telling themselves, “I’m not this and I’m not that.” That’s why I say the positive affirmation for who they are is really important. So that means when you’ve got three kids and some psychologist on a podcasts says, “Well, you’re going to spend some special time with this kid. Hey Lehman, come to my house at 5:30 at night. It’s like a zoo and all the kids are either trying to finish their homework and I’m trying to get some help in the kitchen and I beat dad home by 45 minutes and I’m trying to get dinner on and I’m feeling the pressure and we’re yelling at each other and what do you want me to do? Take some extra time with the middle child?” Dr. Leman: It’s easier said than done what I’m saying, but those moments where you’re tucking kids in at night, I’d spend that extra time with that middle child. I’d tell them about your day and some of the thoughts you had and have a psychological transparency where you begin to foster a rather intimate relationship with that middle child, because I’m here to tell you he or she blocks themselves off from the rest of us in a very natural way. Doug: Well, and to that point, that’s kind of for me the annoying part. They block themselves off from us. You can just see them even when we ask them, “Well, where do you want to go?” The answer is, “Well, I don’t know. I don’t care. Wherever.” You’re like, “Dang it just tell me.” so how do we stop that from happening? Dr. Leman: In a functional way, you say, “Honey, when you decide where we’ll go, we’ll go someplace. In the meantime, we’ll just sit here and look at each other.” I mean, there’s ways of I always say force a blowout rather than a slow leak. Not that that’s a huge blowout, but no, we’ll wait. We’re patient. I want to hear what you want to do. Today is your day to pick where we go. They will let other people decide for them. They’re malleable. You ever see kids play with slime and how fluid that is and you could take slime from one hand and dump it in the other back and forth. That’s just a little bit like a middle child. Andrea: Which makes me think of something how I’ve heard that often the middle children are the peacemaker in the family. Does that go along with that? Because I can see a middle child not wanting to give their opinion about where we’re going to go eat or what movie we’re going to watch because they want to make sure everybody’s happy. Dr. Leman: Right. So they’ve learned when they express their opinion, older brothers, sisters, that that’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. Why would you want to go there? So they’ve learned to sort of keep their opinion to themselves. What I’m trying to teach is we want these opinions out on the table. You have to encourage kids to give them to you. Again, in a very natural way, they fight against that themselves. But yeah, it’s very true. They avoid conflict. They’re peacemakers. That’s a wonderful skill. I’ve often said a middle management man. You can’t beat a middle child personality because they’ve negotiated their entire life. Doug: When we come back, I want to address what happens if we don’t get their opinions and we don’t try to draw them out so that we know from them? But before we do that, I want to share, this is one of the best things [inaudible 00:14:51] gives you guys offer for is the ebook is a birth order book for only $2.99 Between now and the end of October 2020. I’m just telling you, this is one of Andrea’s favorite books that she read and you read it in a flash. It’s only $2.99. Andrea, we got a little review here from someone on Amazon. Andrea: Yeah. Okay. Here. Very interesting and we’ll explain why your uncle or brother is the way they are. I have given this to many people and they are all fascinated by the info inside. Even those who pleasantly said thank you, we’re lauding how helpful and interesting the book is and figuring out why people do what they do. Doug: So Dr. Leman, why would I buy this book? Dr. Leman: Well, it’s a life-changer book. Now that’s a strong statement. Life-changer book, but it will change how you view yourself and how you view others around you. It’s a book that people buy in multiples. Of all the Leman books, that’s the one where it’s not uncommon for people to buy six of them at a time and give them to their friends or their work force people, their children. I think I’ve shared this with you before, but one of my editors who lived in South Carolina and she was really a top editor. Dr. Leman: She was with Thomas Nelson publishers, but her daughter was in a very serious automobile accident and she was hospitalized for quite some time, but she I’ll never forget her telling me that she for the very first time saw her daughter smile after this terrible accident reading the birth order book. I’ll never forget that. That’s a book that will put a smile on your face. Dr. Leman: It gives you insight into marriage, into yourself, into how you rear your kids. It’s sort of like an all purpose flour. You can use it in so many different situations. If you’re a business person and you’ve never read that book, oh my goodness. You have no idea what you’re missing. You’re a leg or two up on the competition by just simply reading that book. I always point out to people. Do firstborns by product like youngest children? No very, very different. Very different approach. Dr. Leman: So if you’re in sales, do you approach everybody the same way? I hope not. Am I suggesting in sales you say, “Excuse me, but what’s your birth order?” No, they’ll think you’re a nut, but what I’m suggesting is a conversation. Hey, where did you grow up? Where’s home for you. Oh, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Oh, cold country, huh? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah me and my brother. Okay. Bingo. I’ll already know he’s got a brother. Now is that a younger brother or an older brother? Oh younger brother. I’m the oldest. I’ve got two younger sisters too. Bingo. You know exactly as a salesperson after reading the birth order book how to approach that person in sales. Doug: So get it now wherever eBooks are sold till the end of October of 2020 and now a no-nonsense parenting moment with Dr. Kevin Leman. Dr. Leman: Hey parents, it’s grade time and the grades come home. Whose grades are those? You know the answer. But some of you say that’s a reflection upon me. So you do all kinds of things to help your child. You help your child by not helping your child. Again, as I’ve said on another tip, if you’re really in trouble, get yourself a tutor for your son or your daughter. Preferably someone just a few years older than them. Someone who can relate to them. Dr. Leman: We’ve seen these scandals where parents have paid billions of dollars to get their kids into prestigious schools. Does that make sense? How’d that work out by the way? Not very good. So remember, grades are a simple reflection about what your son or daughter has done in the classroom. Can you remind your kids of one thing? Yes. Here’s the thing. Honey, someday, someone’s going to look at a computer screen, see your four years of grades and they’re going to make all kinds of assumptions about who you are. So yes, grades are important. Now get to work. Doug: So Dr. Leman, you painted a picture of we’re all busy. It’s 5:30. We’re trying to get dinner on the table and then we’re trying to do homework or we’re running off to soccer. You say what happened? It’s hard to find time to connect with that middle child and ask them their opinions. What happens if we don’t do that? What’s the longterm ramifications? Dr. Leman: Well, the term to put a bluntly is you’ll never get to know your child and guess what? Your child will never get to know you because it is a two-way street. That will be the child that might not have a need to get together with family. That might be the child if you turn them off enough that you just don’t ever hear from them. There are families like that, we’re a real close family. Dr. Leman: So when I say things like that, it’s hard for me to feel that because I’ve never felt that in my life, but I sure have addressed a lot of people will feel isolated from their own family. So it’s just one of the crucial things you have to do as a parent. They have to get to know you and you need to get to know them. It’s easier to get to know the baby. Their mouth’s always running about something. Doug: I remember that you painted the picture for us a long time ago of a tree and as the tree goes up in this branch comes out here, that side of the tree is taken. So other kids will take different sides of the tree and different branches. If I hear what you’re saying is we can’t make all our kids play the clarinet. that We should let, we should let them choose. Maybe they don’t even want to do instruments. Is that what you’re telling us with the middle child? Let them be dance and not do music at all. Dr. Leman: So let’s take that analogy of the tree and look at it again. You see the trunk of the tree and the roots to the tree, that’s the foundation of your family. Those are your values, your beliefs, what you believe in, and as the trunk thickens and gets bigger and all of a sudden we have this first branch, there’s your first born, the other branch is your second born, your third born, et cetera. My question what are the nutrients to grow that tree? Dr. Leman: So the water that’s required in trees is the words. It’s the communication. It’s the love. It’s the feeling that makes us all a part of, in spiritual terms, Jesus talked about the vine and we all are part of that vine as a church. Well, we’re all a part of a family like that tree. Dr. Leman: You nurture that with words of encouragement and you trim the tree. There’s your vitamin N. That branch just doesn’t get to go and do everything they want to do. Sometimes you got to trim it back. Sometimes certain trees drip, if you know what I mean. I have a front sidewalk it reminds me of that every spring. Sometimes you have to put a bandage around that, on the limb to keep it from dripping where you don’t want it to drip. So again, as a parent, you’re the captain of the ship. You make those calls. Are we asking a lot? Yeah. When you decide to become a parent, you signed up for that, just like marriage. In sickness and in health. Doug: Yep. So Dr. Leman, one of the things that you said a long time ago that I have found true is that you can’t just sit down with a kid and say, “Okay, we’re going to have a heart to heart now.” That oftentimes they just kind of pop up whenever you’re doing some project and all of a sudden, or you’re doing something and then the kid starts sharing a lot with you. In my limited, I only got four examples, but I would say my middle two are the more random ones that it’s like, all of a sudden we’re doing something and all of a sudden we have this meaningful conversation where it seems like the younger and the older is far more willing to have those in a structured way. Andrea: Yeah. They’ll initiate it almost. Doug: Is that a trait of middle children or just the weird term? Dr. Leman: Yeah, I think so. I think one of the things you learn as a parent is to catch them on the fly. When you talk about random, a lot of parents would say, “Yeah my kid’s very random,” and some of them are just going all the time and they’re nonstop and there’s days that go by, I hardly say a word to that kid for whatever reason. But there comes a time, and usually it’s the end of the day, where kids settle in and there’s a smart parent that comes in and sits on the edge of the kid’s bed and just shares with a child. Dr. Leman: Some kids share easily. Some kids have a version of that, but you’re going to have to have times when you laugh, times when you cry, times when you communicate. Sometimes [inaudible 00:24:23] just very casually talk. You’re not going to force that relationship. It never works to force anything. Andrea: For our listeners, if there’s somebody out there that’s listening to this to this, then realizing, “Oh man, I’ve been neglecting my middle child and they are preteen, teenager,” what would your best advice for them to jump in without freaking that kid out? Like mom and dad are now grilling me with questions or what would be a good way to segue into building that relationship differently? Dr. Leman: I would do some self-talk as a parent to myself about how oblivious I’ve been at some things. Maybe just say, “What have I assumed about my middle child that I’m really not sure is true?” Make that list. That small list that you come up with is a fodder for you to engage your son or daughter in. Honey, you know the other day I was thinking and I always thought that you were maybe the most secure of all of our kids. You don’t whine like your little brother and you’re not bossy like your big sister. You just sort of roll along. But I’m just wondering, is that a fair assumption or not? I’d love to know your opinion on that. Dr. Leman: Again, I’m not trying to play shrink with you. I’m just curious. But see, that’s how I would approach things. All you do is give the child an opening to share about what’s really going on in their life because the middle child will hide out and they’re so adept at making sure everybody else is happy because they hate disapproval and conflict that you can miss, hey, is my middle child okay? So you just set up situations like that. They’re very casual. Again, it’s not forced. It’s just an opportunity to share. Andrea: It reminds me of some earlier podcasts we’ve done on not asking your kids questions, but how to draw them out. So that might be a good one to go back to. Andrea: I want to go back to something you said, Dr. Leman and then we should wrap this up is that the idea of sitting down with our middle child, I’ve done it with one of our middle child and said, “Isn’t your older brother a little over the top?” Like everything has to be done, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,” like you suggested. I think I even copied you verbatim. Like you said, the kid’s eyes lit up and he’s like, “Really dad? Yeah.” Dr. Leman: I’m so glad you reminded me of that because you struck gold on that, Doug, because that’s the clincher folks. I’m just telling you. When you say that kind of thing like Doug just said. Honey, can I ask your opinion about something? Is your older sister a little over the top or is it me? Every cell in that kid’s body says, “What did you just say?” That is the best words. That’s better than Christmas is tomorrow. Somebody finally understands what I’m up against. That might be the clincher that brings that kid to tell you what’s really going on in their life. Doug: Well, and I set that middle child free to not have to be like perfect older brother. Like Dad actually has critique about older brother? I thought dad idolized older brother. It was like, “Nah, I get annoyed when he does that to me too.” I mean, he was like, “Wow.” Andrea: I am a little confused about our family’s birth order and who’s who, so I’m just going to ask real quick before we end the podcast. We have boy, girl, boy, girl and they’re all about two years apart. So does that make first girl like a firstborn personality? Dr. Leman: Well, your born daughter can be a functional firstborn, but that is dependent upon how strong of a firstborn, in your case, James would be your oldest son. Andrea: And he’s strong. Dr. Leman: Yeah. Andrea: Anna is a functional middle. Doug: Oh, she’s a peacemaker, conflict [crosstalk 00:28:37] Dr. Leman: Yeah. Okay. But there’s your reason why I want people to see. If firstborn is really your typical strong dug in firstborn, that’s less probability that that girl is going to become the functional first born, although she could in some other situations and more than likely that she becomes a middle. When you say you’re confused about your family, let’s just move down to child number three, a boy. There should be an alliance in your family and is the Alliance in your family between boy number one and boy number two or is it between boy number one and baby girl? Doug: Oh. Andrea: Oh definitely. Doug: Definitely. One and four are definitely alliance. Dr. Leman: So the two in the middle should be opposites. Doug: They are. Dr. Leman: With that being said and see, I would tell anybody to take a pen and a piece of paper and just diagram it. Put their names down or if you want, just boy, girl and sometimes you can just look at it and say, “Our family makes more sense than I thought.” Doug: Yep. Okay. Well, I got to wrap- Andrea: This is so fun. So thanks for talking about us middle children today. Doug: This is why I encourage you to go get the birth order book because it’s not just it’s like this is oldest, this is middle, this is youngest. He also talks about what to do, what not to do, but then also variances and why there’s variances within there. It’s absolutely fascinating and super helpful. If you’re a middle child who feels lost like, “Well, there’s nothing about me. I’m just night.” No, there’s way more in there about it than you realize. Doug: So you can get it now between now and the end of October of 2020, wherever e-books are sold or $2.99 to get it now. Well, it was great to be with you and yay for us middle children that we got to go first. Thank you Andrea, and we look forward to the next time we get to hang out with you and add to that parenting toolbox. Andrea: Have a great week. Doug: Take care. Bye bye.