Sara Walker, an astrobiologist and theoretical physicist known for her book "Life as No One Knows It," dives into the mysteries of life's emergence and the potential for extraterrestrial existence. She explores the intricate dance between life and death using examples like the zombie ant fungus. The discussion reveals the complexities of consciousness, advocating for a broader, interconnected understanding of life that encompasses both biology and technology. Walker also grapples with the philosophical implications of expanded definitions of existence and the interplay between creativity and rationality in science.

What is life, and where does it come from? These are two of the deepest, most vexing, and persistent questions in science, and their enduring mystery and allure is complicated by the fact that scientists approach them from a myriad of different angles, hard to reconcile. Whatever else one might identify as universal features of all living systems, most scholars would agree life is a physical phenomenon unfolding in time. And yet current physics is notorious for its inadequacy with respect to time. Life appears to hinge on information transfer — but, again, what do we mean by “information,” and what it is relationship to energy and matter? If humankind can’t settle fundamental issues with these theoretical investigations, we might be missing other kinds of life (and mind) — not just in outer space, but here on Earth, right beneath our noses. But new models that suggest a vastly wider definition of life offer hope that we might — soon! — not only learn to recognize the biospheres and technospheres of other living worlds, but notice other “aliens” at home, and even find our place amidst a living cosmos.Welcome to COMPLEXITY, the official podcast of the Santa Fe Institute. I’m your host, Michael Garfield, and every other week we’ll bring you with us for far-ranging conversations with our worldwide network of rigorous researchers developing new frameworks to explain the deepest mysteries of the universe.This week on the show, we speak with SFI External Professor Sara Walker (Twitter, Google Scholar), Deputy Director of The Beyond Center at ASU, where she acts as Associate Professor in half a dozen different programs. In this conversation, we discuss her pioneering research in the origins of life and the profound and diverse implications of Assembly Theory — a new kind of physics she’s developing with chemist Leroy Cronin and a team of SFI and NASA scholars.  Sara likes to speculate out loud in public conversation, so strap in for an unusually enthusiastic, animated, and free-roaming conversation at the very bleeding edge of science. And be sure to check out our extensive show notes with links to all our references at complexity.simplecast.com.If you value our research and communication efforts, please subscribe, rate and review us at Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and consider making a donation — or finding other ways to engage with us — at santafe.edu/engage.Thank you for listening!Join our Facebook discussion group to meet like minds and talk about each episode.Podcast theme music by Mitch Mignano.Follow us on social media:Twitter • YouTube • Facebook • Instagram • LinkedInMentioned Papers:Intelligence as a planetary scale processby Adam Frank, David Grinspoon & Sara WalkerThe Algorithmic Origins of Lifeby Sara Imari Walker & Paul C. W. DaviesBeyond prebiotic chemistry: What dynamic network properties allow the emergence of life?by Leroy Cronin & Sara WalkerIdentifying molecules as biosignatures with assembly theory and mass spectrometryby Stuart Marshall, Cole Mathis, Emma Carrick, Graham Keenan, Geoffrey Cooper, Heather Graham, Matthew Craven, Piotr Gromski, Douglas Moore, Sara Walker & Leroy CroninAssembly Theory Explains and Quantifies the Emergence of Selection and Evolutionby Abhishek Sharma, Dániel Czégel, Michael Lachmann, Christopher Kempes, Sara Walker, Leroy CroninQuantum Non-Barking Dogsby Sara Imari Walker, Paul C. W. Davies, Prasant Samantray, Yakir AharonovThe Multiple Paths to Multiple Lifeby Christopher P. Kempes & David C. Krakauer Other Related Videos & Writing:SFI Seminar - Why Black Holes Eat Informationby Vijay BalasubramanianMajor Transitions in Planetary Evolutionby Hikaru Furukawa and Sara Imari Walker2022 Community Lecture: “Recognizing The Alien in Us”by Sara WalkerSara Walker and Lee Cronin: The Alien Debateon The Lex Fridman ShowIf Cancer Were Easy, Every Cell Would Do ItSFI Press Release on work by Michael LachmannThe Ministry for The Futureby Kim Stanley RobinsonRe: Wheeler’s delayed choice experimentWikipediaOn the SFI “Exploring Life’s Origins” Research ProjectComplexity Explorer’s Origins of Life Free Open Online CourseChiara Marletto on Constructor TheorySimon Saunders, Philosopher of Physics at OxfordRelated SFI Podcast Episodes:Complexity 2 - The Origins of Life: David Krakauer, Sarah Maurer, and Chris Kempes at InterPlanetary Festival 2019Complexity 8 - Olivia Judson on Major Energy Transitions in Evolutionary HistoryComplexity 17 - Chris Kempes on The Physical Constraints on Life & EvolutionComplexity 40 - The Information Theory of Biology & Origins of Life with Sara Imari Walker (Big Biology Podcast Crossover)Complexity 41 - Natalie Grefenstette on Agnostic Biosignature DetectionComplexity 68 - W. Brian Arthur on Economics in Nouns & Verbs (Part 1)Complexity 80 - Mingzhen Lu on The Evolution of Root Systems & Biogeochemical CyclingAlien Crash Site 015 - Cole MathisAlien Crash Site 019 - Heather GrahamAlien Crash Site 020 - Chris KempesAlien Crash Site 021 - Natalie Grefenstette

When most of us think about information, we think of it as something we can possess or ‘know’. But what if it’s so much more than that? In this episode, we’re joined by Sara Walker, Deputy Director of the Beyond Center for Fundamental Concepts in Science, Associate Professor in Earth and Space Exploration and Complex Adaptive Systems at Arizona State University, and External Faculty at the Santa Fe Institute. Sara is going to examine information and the critical role it plays in complex systems.   Connect: Simplifying Complexity on Twitter Sean Brady on Twitter Sean Brady on LinkedIn Brady Heywood website This show is produced in collaboration with Wavelength Creative. Visit wavelengthcreative.com for more information.

The podcast delves into the complexities of the origin of life, discussing approaches like the RNA world and metabolism first. It explores the role of memory, selection, and evolution in creating complex structures, rejecting spontaneous creation. The significance of copy numbers in evolution and the challenges of origin of life theories are also highlighted, emphasizing the need for deep experimentation and interdisciplinary thinking.

Sara Walker, an astrobiologist known for her insights on the origin of life, and Lee Cronin, a chemist focused on assembly theory, dive deep into the mysteries of extraterrestrial life. They discuss the challenges of detecting alien civilizations and what criteria define intelligent life. The conversation touches on the essence of human curiosity and communication with beings from beyond our planet. They also explore the philosophical implications of existence, the origins of life, and the idea of a universal language for interstellar dialogue.

Jim talks with Sara Walker and Lee Cronin about the ideas in their Aeon essay "Time Is an Object." They discuss the history of the idea of time, Newton's clockwork universe, the capacity for things to happen, the impossibility of time travel, Einstein's block universe theory, making time testable, conceptions of the arrow of time, irreversibility as an emergent property, the core of assembly theory, measures of complexity, recursive deconstruction, distinguishing random & complex, Kolmogorov complexity, the absence of a useful theory of complexity, counting steps in the assembly pathway, developing theories from measurement, the size of chemical possibility space, the role of memory in the creation of large organic chemicals, memory depth, the assembly index, the origins of life, a sharp phase transition between biotic & non-biotic molecules, life as a stack of objects, a phase transition between life & technology, techno-signatures, error correction in DNA, whether assembly theory is a theory of time, the temporal dimension as a physical feature of objects, implications for SETI & the Fermi paradox, spotting the difference between noise & assembly, the Great Perceptual Filter, looking for complexity in the universe, the probability of life originating, and much more. Episode Transcript "Time is an object," by Sara Walker and Lee Cronin (Aeon) JRS EP5 - Lee Smolin on Quantum Foundations and Einstein’s Unfinished Revolution Professor Sara Walker is an astrobiologist and theoretical physicist. Her work focuses on the origins and nature of life, and in particular whether or not there are universal ‘laws of life’ that would allow predicting when life emerges and can guide our search for other examples on other worlds.  Her research integrates diverse perspectives ranging from chemistry, biology, geology, astronomy and the foundations of physics, to computer science, cheminformatics, artificial life, artificial intelligence and consciousness. At Arizona State University she is Deputy Director of the Beyond Center for Fundamental Concepts in Science, Associate Director of the ASU-Santa Fe Institute Center for Biosocial Complex Systems and Professor in the School of Earth and Space Exploration. She is also a member of the External Faculty at the Santa Fe Institute. She is active in public engagement in science, with appearances on "Through the Wormhole", NPR's Science Friday, and on a number of international science festivals and podcasts. She has published in leading research journals and is an internationally recognized thought leader in the study of the origins of life, alien life and the search for a deeper understanding of ourselves in our universe. Leroy (Lee) Cronin is the Regius Professor of Chemistry in Glasgow. Since the age of 9 Lee has wanted to explore chemistry using electronics to control matter. His research spans many disciplines and has four main aims: the construction of an artificial life form; the digitization of chemistry; the use of artificial intelligence in chemistry including the construction of ‘wet’ chemical computers; the exploration of complexity and information in chemistry. His recent work on the digitization of chemistry has resulted in a new programming paradigm for matter and organic synthesis and discovery – chemputation – which uses the worlds first domain specific and universal programming language for chemistry – XDL, see XDL-standard.com. His team designs and builds all their own robots from the ground up and the team currently has 25 different robotic systems operating across four domains: Organic synthesis; Energy materials discovery; Nanomaterials discovery; Formulation discovery. All the systems use XDL and are easily programmable for both manufacture and discovery. His group is organised and assembled transparently around ideas, avoids hierarchy, and aims to mentor researchers using a problem-based approach. Nothing is impossible until it is tried.

Sara Walker, a theoretical physicist and astrobiologist at Arizona State University, delves into the intriguing concepts of life's origins and the search for it beyond Earth. She shares insights on assembly theory, exploring how life's complexity evolves over time. The conversation bridges scientific definitions of life with cultural perspectives, prompting listeners to rethink conventional views. Walker also discusses the philosophical dimensions of existence, emphasizing a spectrum of aliveness that challenges binary thinking and encompasses innovation, free will, and interconnectedness.

Sara Walker, an astrobiologist and theoretical physicist, dives into the mysteries of life's origins and the intriguing possibility of extraterrestrial life. She discusses the RNA world hypothesis and the role of hydrothermal vents in life's early emergence. The conversation also explores concepts like the shadow biosphere and panspermia, questioning how we define life. Walker highlights innovative strategies for detecting alien life, emphasizing a holistic understanding of biological complexity. Her insights intertwine philosophy with science, reflecting on existence and our place in the universe.

Sara Walker, a Professor of Astrobiology at Arizona State University, sheds light on assembly theory as a pivotal lens for understanding life and consciousness. She argues that instead of searching the cosmos, we should delve deeper into Earth's chemical processes to find insights into alien life. The conversation touches upon the evolution of complex systems, the philosophical implications of consciousness, and how our understanding of life can reshape notions of intelligence and reality. Walker's fresh perspective prompts a rethinking of what it means to be alive.

In a thought-provoking discussion, astrobiologist Sarah Walker, author of "Life as No One Knows It," dives into the mysteries of consciousness and the origins of life. She ponders whether free will exists on a sliding scale and discusses the potential for co-evolution between humans and AI. The conversation explores the paradoxes of technology's advancement, the concept of planetary intelligence, and the implications of language as an evolving life form, all while questioning if aliens might already be among us.