WHAT IS LIFE? (Part 1): A Mind-Bending Conversation with Sara Walker
Dec 17, 2024
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Sara Walker, a theoretical physicist and astrobiologist at Arizona State University, delves into the intriguing concepts of life's origins and the search for it beyond Earth. She shares insights on assembly theory, exploring how life's complexity evolves over time. The conversation bridges scientific definitions of life with cultural perspectives, prompting listeners to rethink conventional views. Walker also discusses the philosophical dimensions of existence, emphasizing a spectrum of aliveness that challenges binary thinking and encompasses innovation, free will, and interconnectedness.
The podcast explores the ambiguity surrounding the definition of life, emphasizing complexity as a key distinguishing factor through assembly theory.
Innovative thinkers like Donald Hoffman and Lisa Feldman Barrett challenge traditional notions of reality and consciousness, prompting reassessments of these concepts.
The discussion highlights the interconnectedness of physics, chemistry, and biology in understanding life's origins, framing it as a planetary-scale transition rather than merely biochemical.
Deep dives
The Nature of Life and Its Emergence
The podcast explores the complex question of what defines life and how it emerges from non-life. The speaker highlights the challenges in establishing a clear definition of life, noting that traditional criteria based on replication and metabolism often lead to ambiguities, such as the status of viruses and fire. The focus shifts to assembly theory, developed by Sarah Walker and her collaborators, which posits that life is characterized by the complexity and history of its molecular assembly. This theory suggests that life is the process of creating complex structures, as evidenced by the distinct assembly index—molecules from living organisms consistently exceed a threshold of complexity, indicating a significant difference between living and non-living entities.
The Unorthodox Perspectives of Scientific Thinkers
The episode reflects on the outlandish ideas presented by various scientists, including cognitive psychologist Donald Hoffman and neuroscientist Lisa Feldman Barrett, who challenge conventional views of reality and emotion. These innovative thinkers prompt a reevaluation of long-held beliefs about the nature of consciousness and existence. The conversation takes a further leap into theoretical physics with Sarah Walker, whose research questions the very definition of life and the emergence of complexity in the universe. This exploration of unconventional perspectives reinforces the theme that scientific inquiry thrives on breaking boundaries and confronting the unknown.
Understanding Complexity through Assembly Theory
Assembly theory presents a compelling framework for understanding the origin of life through the lens of complexity. By measuring the minimum number of steps needed to construct a molecule, researchers can differentiate between living and non-living objects based on their assembly index. This method reveals that non-living entities, such as meteorites, have a significantly lower complexity threshold compared to living organisms. The distinction emphasizes that life is not merely a state of being but rather a dynamic process involving intricate interactions and historical continuity.
The Intersection of Physics, Chemistry, and Life
The podcast emphasizes the interdisciplinary nature of studying life's origins, wherein physics, chemistry, and biology converge. Sarah Walker's approach enhances understanding by viewing life as a planetary-scale transition rather than a phenomenon limited to biochemistry. By considering life through this broader lens, the discussion invites fresh perspectives on how information and organization shape the complexity of living systems. This holistic view breaks down conventional categorical boundaries, spotlighting the interconnectedness of scientific disciplines and the potential for novel insights.
Determinism, Free Will, and the Future of Life
A significant theme in the discussion revolves around the relationship between determinism and free will, contending that complexity enhances agency and the potential for future possibilities. As complex structures, like living organisms, evolve, they not only persist but also gain the ability to shape their future environments. This duality suggests that within the framework of deterministic laws, opportunities for autonomous choices still exist, leading to the conclusion that free will is an emergent property of complex systems. Ultimately, the conversation posits that as our understanding of life and its processes grows, we are empowered to create paths toward a more expansive and enriched future.
We’ve had many bracing thinkers on this show, but Sara Walker might take the cake. A physicist and astrobiologist at Arizona State University, she's just written "Life as No One Knows It: The Physics of Life's Emergence," a thrilling exploration of life's origins and the search for it across the cosmos.
🕐 The second part of this conversation will be available on Thursday. If you can’t wait until then, you can hear it right now on The Next Big Idea app
🎁 Take 20% off a Next Big Idea Club subscription when you use code PODCAST20 at nextbigideaclub.com
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