Marek Poliks and Roberto Alonso Trillo, artists and theorists working in AI, delve into their provocative new book, Exocapitalism. They explore capitalism's indifference to human scale, presenting it as a meta-process that undermines traditional leftist frameworks. Topics include the illusion of interaction with AI, labor's diminishing role in financialized economies, and the concept of drag as a state counteraction. They also discuss tokenization's impact on perception, financialization in everyday examples like Starbucks, and the evolving nature of value.