Peter Markowitz, a law professor and immigrant rights advocate, and Rodger Werner, a Homeland Security expert, delve into the complexities of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). They discuss the creation of ICE post-9/11, the historical context of immigration enforcement, and how perceptions of crime and terrorism have shaped policies. The conversation highlights the alarming increase in deportations, the impact on immigrant communities, and the ethical dilemmas within enforcement agencies. Their insights reveal the tangled web of immigration politics in modern America.