This is a podcast by and for the curious — and yet, in over three years, we have pointed curiosity at nearly every topic but itself. What is it, anyway? Are there worse and better frames for understanding how desire and wonder, exploration and discovery play out in both the brain and in society? How is scientific research like an amble through the woods? What juicy insights bubble up where neuroscientists, historians, philosophers, and mathematicians meet to answer questions like these? And how long of a path must we traverse to get there?In this episode, we talk with SFI External Professor Dani Bassett, physicist and neuroscientist at the University of Pennsylvania, and their birth twin Perry Zurn, philosopher at American University in Washington, DC. You might consider each one of two lenses in a stereoscopic inquiry. Their new MIT Press book Curious Minds: The Power of Connection bridges quantity and quality to recast curiosity as a phenomenon of networks — as a kind of “edgework” (generative, drawing new associations) instead of “acquistion” (of individuals collecting facts). The brain, after all, is made of networked neurons, and society’s a kind of super-brain of networked people, so why not think in terms of links?  Their research offers a taxonomy of kinds of curiosity — three different ways that people move through knowledge networks. Traveling across a web of related ideas, rupturing and mending, weaving, percolating, synthesizing, we embody and perform the objects of their academic study. We hope you find this lively and self-referential conversation offers you a helpful map as you draw your distinct connectome through the world of what is and what could be known...Be sure to check out our extensive show notes with links to all our references at complexity.simplecast.com. If you value our research and communication efforts, please subscribe, rate and review us at Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and consider making a donation — or finding other ways to engage with us — at santafe.edu/engage.Lastly, we have a bevy of summer programs coming up! Join us June 19-23 for Collective Intelligence: Foundations + Radical Ideas, a first-ever event open to both academics and professionals, with sessions on adaptive matter, animal groups, brains, AI, teams, and more.  Space is limited!  Apps close February 1st.OR Apply to participate in the Complex Systems Summer School.OR the Graduate Workshop on Complexity in Social Science.OR the Complexity GAINS UK program for PhD students.(OR check our open listings for a staff or research job!)Thank you for listening…EDITORIAL CORRECTION: We mention a review of Cormac McCarthy's latest novels in this discussion. The correct link is to James Wood’s piece in The New Yorker, not Michael Gorra’s in NYRB. Join our Facebook discussion group to meet like minds and talk about each episode.Podcast theme music by Mitch Mignano.Follow us on social media:Twitter • YouTube • Facebook • Instagram • LinkedInMentioned & Related Links:Curious Minds: The Power of Connectionby Perry Zurn and Dani Bassett (MIT Press, 2022)Curiosity as filling, compressing, and reconfiguring knowledge networksby Shubhankar P. Patankar, Dale Zhou, Christopher W. Lynn, Jason Z. Kim, Mathieu Ouellet, Harang Ju, Perry Zurn, David M. Lydon-Staley, Dani S. BassettMurray Gell-Mann on information overload (from A Crude Look At The Whole) [Video]The Arrival of the Fittest: How Nature Innovates by SFI External Professor Andreas WagnerComplexity 99: Alison Gopnik on Child Development, Elderhood, Caregiving, and A.I.Complexity 80: Mingzhen Lu on The Evolution of Root Systems & Biogeochemical CyclingBusybody, Hunter, Dancer: Three Historical Models of Curiosityby Perry ZurnHunters, busybodies and the knowledge network building associated with deprivation curiosityby David M. Lydon-Staley, Dale Zhou, Ann Sizemore Blevins, Perry Zurn & Danielle S. BassettComplexity 29: On Coronavirus, Crisis, and Creative Opportunity with David KrakauerThe Dimensions of Experience: A Natural History of Consciousness by Andrew P. SmithComplexity 68: W. Brian Arthur on Economics in Nouns and Verbs (Part 1)Complexity 90: Caleb Scharf on The Ascent of Information: Life in The Human DataomeComplexity 94: David Wolpert & Farita Tasnim on The Thermodynamics of CommunicationComplexity 35: Scaling Laws & Social Networks in The Time of COVID-19 with Geoffrey West (Part 1)Complexity 87: Sara Walker on The Physics of Life and Planet-Scale IntelligenceThe extent and drivers of gender imbalance in neuroscience reference listsby Jordan D. Dworkin, Kristin A. Linn, Erin G. Teich, Perry Zurn, Russell T. Shinohara & Danielle S. BassettUnderflows: Queer Trans Ecologies and River Justice by Cleo Wölfle HazardThe Sounds of Life by Karen BakkerBraiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall KimmererDirk Brockmann’s interactive explorablesNicky Case’s interactive explorablesThe Thing From The Future (speculative futurism card game by Stuart Candy & Jeff Watson at Situation Lab)Bayo Akomolafe (re: networks, the nonhuman turn, and questioning the rhetoric of individuals as “designers”)LAION-5B: An open large-scale dataset for training next generation image-text modelsby Christoph Schuhmann, Romain Beaumont, Richard Vencu, Cade Gordon, Ross Wightman, Mehdi Cherti, Theo Coombes, Aarush Katta, Clayton Mullis, Mitchell Wortsman, Patrick Schramowski, Srivatsa Kundurthy, Katherine Crowson, Ludwig Schmidt, Robert Kaczmarczyk, Jenia JitsevComplexity 86: Dmitri Tymoczko on The Shape of Music: Mathematical Order in Western TonalityDani & Perry on SFI External Professor Sean Carroll’s MINDSCAPE Podcast

It’s easy enough to proclaim that we are curious creatures, but what does that really mean? What kinds of curiosity are there? And how does curiosity arise in our brains? Perry Zurn and Dani Bassett are a philosopher and neuroscientist, respectively (as well as twins), whose new book Curious Minds: The Power of Connection explores these questions through an interdisciplinary lens. We break down the different ways that curiosity can manifest — collecting and creating loose knowledge networks, digging deeply to create a tight knowledge network, and creatively leaping to make unexpected connections. Support Mindscape on Patreon.Perry Zurn received a Ph.D. in philosophy from DePaul University. He is currently an Associate Professor and Director of Undergraduate Studies in Philosophy in the Department of Philosophy and Religion at American University. He is the co-founder of the Trans Philosophy Project and the associated Thinking Trans // Trans Thinking Conference. Among his previous works is Curiosity and Power: The Politics of Inquiry.Web siteAmerican University web pageGoogle Scholar publicationsPhilPeople profileTwitterDani Bassett received a Ph.D. in physics from the University of Cambridge. They are currently the J. Peter Skirkanich Professor at the University of Pennsylvania, with appointments in the Departments of Bioengineering, Electrical & Systems Engineering, Physics & Astronomy, Neurology, and Psychiatry, as well as an external professor of the Santa Fe Institute. Among their awards are the Macarthur Fellowship, the Lagrange Prize in Complex Systems Science (2017), and the Erdos-Renyi Prize in Network Science.University of Pennsylvania web pageGoogle Scholar publicationsWikipediaTwitterSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Today we welcome Perry Zurn and Dani Bassett. Dr. Perry Zurn is Associate Professor of Philosophy at American University. He is the author or coauthor of more than 75 publications in philosophy, political theory, trans studies, and network science and has given hundreds of talks at local, national, and international venues. His work has been generously funded by organizations like the American Philosophical Association, the Center for Curiosity, the Lee Somers Fund and more. Dr. Dani S. Bassett is the J. Peter Skirkanich Professor at the University of Pennsylvania, with appointments in the Departments of Bioengineering, Electrical & Systems Engineering, Physics & Astronomy, Neurology, and Psychiatry. They authored more than 390 peer-reviewed publications, which have garnered over 38,000 citations. Dr. Bassett has received multiple prestigious awards from the American Psychological Association, Sloan Foundation, and MacArthur Foundation among others. They often collaborate on research about neuroscience, curiosity, and the humanities. Recently, they co-wrote Curious Minds: The Power of Connection.In this episode, I talk to Perry Zurn and Dani Bassett about curiosity. For them, curiosity is not just about gaining knowledge, it’s about connecting to the world and to each other. Each individual has their own style of connecting - they can be busybodies, hunters, or dancers at any given time. Perry and Dani also weigh in on how social media affects curiosity and how their network model of curiosity can improve education.Website: perryzurn.com & danisbassett.comTwitter: @perryzurn & @danisbassett Topics02:27 Perry and Dani’s interest in curiosity06:26 Curiosity is connection12:45 Network science 15:18 Archetypes of curiosity20:22 Deprivation vs interest-based curiosity 23:56 Social curiosity29:47 Cycling through the different styles of curiosity 37:25 Is social media making us more curious? 40:51 Consciously practicing curiosity 42:32 Curiosity and learning See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Curiosity led Pandora to open a box, but what does being curious look like in our everyday lives? In episode 62, Ellie and David discuss the vilification of curiosity and the role of curiosity in the modern education system. To help, they talk with philosophy professor Perry Zurn and bioengineering professor Dani S. Bassett, twins who co-authored the book Curious Minds: The Power of Connection. Together, they consider how we can understand and cultivate different types of curiosity.   Works Discussed  Saint Augustine, The Confessions Francis Bacon, "Of Tribute" Barbara Benedict, Curiosity: A Cultural History of Early Modern Inquiry Paulo Freire, Pedagogy of the Oppressed Erich Fromm, Escape from Freedom Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan Richard Phillips, “Curiosity: Care, Virtue and Pleasure in Uncovering the New”  Alastair Reed, “Curiosity”  Joelle Thomas and David M. Peña-Guzmán, “Review of Vinciane Despret’s What Would Animals Say If We Asked the Right Questions?”  Perry Zurn, Curiosity and Power: The Politics of Inquiry Perry Zurn & Dani S. Bassett, Curious Minds: The Power of ConnectionModem FuturaModem Futura is your guide to the bold frontiers of tomorrow, where technology,...Listen on: Apple Podcasts   SpotifySupport the showPatreon | patreon.com/overthinkpodcast Website | overthinkpodcast.comInstagram & Twitter | @overthink_podEmail | dearoverthink@gmail.comYouTube | Overthink podcast

Dani S. Bassett, a leading researcher in human learning at the University of Pennsylvania, and Perry Zurn, a philosopher exploring curiosity, delve into the multifaceted nature of curiosity. They discuss its historical archetypes like the busybody and hunter and how societal views shape our curiosity. The duo emphasizes adaptability in education, linking curiosity to creativity in science and the arts. They explore how curiosity connects new information with existing knowledge, enhancing learning and fostering innovation across disciplines.