In this conversation, economist Noah Smith, known for his insights on business and politics, engages in a thought-provoking dialogue. He discusses the Abundance Agenda and its surprising appeal amidst political despondency. The talk also reflects on Obama's presidency, highlighting challenges to national unity and past achievements. Noah critiques the 2008 financial crisis responses and explores the ideological shifts within the New Right, analyzing their impact on contemporary public discourse, identity, and the role of technology in shaping our future.