Rory Sutherland, Vice Chairman of Ogilvy UK, and Nicholas Gruen, CEO of Lateral Economics, engage in a spirited debate about systems thinking's role in solving complex social issues like homelessness. They emphasize the need for inclusivity and deeper understanding over simplistic solutions. The conversation also critiques rigid methodologies in government problem-solving, advocating for creativity. Additionally, they explore the ethical dilemmas in invention, such as penicillin's legacy, and discuss the complex interplay between innovation, culture, and market dynamics.
